Iksar Monk: 20 sta the endgame choice?

[sajbert]

In a fever dream where you had full raid BIS-gear, wouldn't you be stamina and str capped without buffs or avatar proc?

I have no idea what I'm doing but throwing together a kit of gear focusing on 3 x AoB, regen+eb+truevision, AC, HP and MR (roughly that order) and I'm at 254 sta and str without a single attribute point spent, even whilst using summoned shurikens.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Monkeybis
(feel free to C&C my picks).

The typical recommendation is to put all points into stamina if you wish to minmax. Is it simply not true once you have transcended your corporeal body in your mom's basement and achieved full BIS?

Or am I simply really bad at playing magelo online? If not, should we dump points into dex instead for faster non-buffed primal procs? Or agi for that AC? Or charisma for vendor prices and... uh DI?

[Snaggles]

Full raid BiS on a monk is going to take a long time. For good reason a lot of people who are avid raiders pour buckets of dkp into monks.

It’s just a matter of how many years it will take to cap str with raid gear (while maintaining hps and svs) and then stamina. I can definitely see Stamina being something to put points into if you do plan to raid a lot.

I think then worrying about being under cap in Dex for pre-avatar procs is the nth degree of theorycrafting. It’s kind of like worrying about which powertrain setup would be most reliable for your Sunseeker luxury yacht. No offense intended, I love thinking ahead I just don’t believe anyone who hits all these gearing achievements is like “JFC, if only I had put my points into agility/dex”.

[sajbert]

Oh I wouldn't worry about feeling silly once I'd have all BIS. I'll NEVER have all BIS, not even close. It's more of an OCD-type of deal to me. Also, being 20 stamina short when raiding I doubt will make or break the experience much and if anything going 20 dex seems more fun over the long haul once you get proccing weapons.

Thinking of putting 20points into dex, or well maybe 18 and 1pt into str and sta assuming the magelo BIS-profile is where I'd wanna go should I ever be locked in a basement for 30 years.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

As Snaggles points out, a full BiS Monk will have a primal weapon, so STR, DEX, and AGI will be capped regardless. If you really cared about having 255 dex for proccing Avatar initially, you could just ask for a DEX buff or Avatar, then click off the extra buffs once you get your first proc.

You are correct that any race can cap their STA with BiS gear and a Shaman STA buff.

However, Monks don't have a good non combat stat to dump into if you are going for Min/Max. I don't believe Monks get Divine Intervention cast on them enough to worry about it. Warriors have CHA for Divine Intervention, hybrids have INT/WIS, etc.

So for Monks STA is still probably the best choice because it allows you to reduce the number of buffs you need by 1, and it allows you to swap gear around for resistances. For example, a BiS monk would have https://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky as a chest swap for resistances. So you would lose 10 STA right there. You would also have https://wiki.project1999.com/Shawl_of_Protection , which would reduce your STA by a further 15. So wearing Robe + Shawl means you are down 25 STA. Having +30 all resistances over your current setup is generally going to be better than 150 worn HP, so honestly I would probably just wear Robe + Shawl all the time and forego getting the Tunic and Pauldrons.

[Cecily]

Full raid BiS on a monk is going to take a long time. For good reason a lot of people who are avid raiders pour buckets of dkp into monks.

It’s just a matter of how many years it will take to cap str with raid gear (while maintaining hps and svs) and then stamina. I can definitely see Stamina being something to put points into if you do plan to raid a lot.

I think then worrying about being under cap in Dex for pre-avatar procs is the nth degree of theorycrafting. It’s kind of like worrying about which powertrain setup would be most reliable for your Sunseeker luxury yacht. No offense intended, I love thinking ahead I just don’t believe anyone who hits all these gearing achievements is like “JFC, if only I had put my points into agility/dex”.
I 100% believe that +++ dex builds are a smart move for rangers / monks. Yeah, I've had that thought about helping proc avatar. There's also a bit earlier in game with stuns and tstaves and also weapons that stun for monks. There's no point in the game, pre/post primal where extra dex wouldn't be helpful, baring 255 unbuffed dex soloing. MOST monks will not get primals. MOST monks will not cap dex unbuffed. HP is the not the end all be all for EQ. I would rather proc a stun soloing more often over 20 mobs than have an extra 100 HP to make the 1 in 20 less sketchy. Probably a shit opinion for raiding, but I raid to get stuff to not raid with if that makes sense.

tl;dr: Yeah +20 STA

[Snaggles]

I totally get it :) I also think monks and rangers like Cecily said have some weapons (plus archery crits) that are amazing with higher dex. It’s a weak spot for my ranger I know.

Yea just in general I think the mileage from Sta will be a bit greater though still not as noticeable as being undercapped for str (until that’s not an issue). DSM is spot on as well. Unbuffed hps are really handy for a puller so having this capped without Riotous Health or even pants click is handy.

The more sta and str you have the more you can pick items that are not optimized for melee but have say a ton of Sv magic. Not a thing for BiS but there will be a time where you should some of this stuff. Even if say wearing BD’s while waiting at Scout.

[sajbert]

So basically, more sta to allow for more gear flexibility and probably provide more use until BIS, compared to dex which will be useful in any situation BIS or no BIS .

Meh, dex seems like the fun choice - I'll go with that. Thanks for the input guys!

[Solist]

Capping stamina happens pretty quick in any raid scene monk.

And even if it doesn't, who has the buff slots for stamina for the sake of 20 hp or whatever to finally cap it if you're like 230.
grim aura/epic click
10th ring
see invis
ultravision
5 flowers
avatar
fos/dain hammer
vog
aego
sow

Leaves 1 slot for fear/some other AE, and celestial elixir or DI. May swap out an unneeded flower as required for the DI/elixir, and/or keep a top 2/3 slot open for slime mist. But by and large you're buff slot limited on a monk. But luckily monk gear generally stacks stamina fairly easily.

[Croco]

So basically, more sta to allow for more gear flexibility and probably provide more use until BIS, compared to dex which will be useful in any situation BIS or no BIS .

Meh, dex seems like the fun choice - I'll go with that. Thanks for the input guys!

Dex is a garbage choice. Stam all the way.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Dex is a garbage choice. Stam all the way.

Agreed. If you are planning for BiS gear, you are going to easily cap DEX with buffs. You are getting 160 DEX from FoS + Avatar, and your starting DEX is 85 or 95. So you are basically able to cap DEX without gear, just using the primary buffs you would be using anyway.

[Toxigen]

BiS or not BiS, the answer is still STA because of mend.

[sajbert]

Agreed. If you are planning for BiS gear, you are going to easily cap DEX with buffs. You are getting 160 DEX from FoS + Avatar, and your starting DEX is 85 or 95. So you are basically able to cap DEX without gear, just using the primary buffs you would be using anyway.
But, you’d also cap sta with buffs. Even without buffs you’ll cap out as long as, yeah, you don’t invest in high MR pieces with low or no sta. Even if you do you’ll be some 30 stamina short without any buffs whatsoever.

BiS or not BiS, the answer is still STA because of mend.

Does sta above cap affect mend?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

But, you’d also cap sta with buffs. Even without buffs you’ll cap out as long as, yeah, you don’t invest in high MR pieces with low or no sta. Even if you do you’ll be some 30 stamina short without any buffs whatsoever.


The difference is you can only get 50 STA from buffs generally speaking via Riotous Health. While you can get an additional 20 from Primal Essence, a BiS Monk is going to be using Avatar instead (Primal Essence and Avatar do not stack).

So putting points into STA is better, because you are only able to get + 50 STA from buffs, as opposed to +160 DEX. If you are an Iksar (which is the min/max choice), 95 starting stat + 160 = 255. You are capped without the need for any DEX gear or starting stats. STA still requires you to put on STA gear if you want to cap it, even considering buffs and starting stats.

If you can cap your STA without buffs, you can save a buff slot, which is useful. DEX is being capped by two buffs you would always want anyway, Avatar and FoS.


Does sta above cap affect mend?

What Toxigen is saying is you want to ensure your STA is capped, because mend always gives you 25% of your HP pool back. For Monks max HP has additional utility, because it will always improve the amount of health you get back via mend. Putting points into STA allows you to have more flexibility on gear while hitting max STA, or at least being close to it.

[sajbert]

But in this fever dream full BIS-scenario you would be stamina capped without any buffs so the saving a stamina buffslot wouldnt be an issue. It'd only be relevant if you went for low cha high MR gear for something like raid pulling and you'd think that 20 stamina would somehow be relevant enough to make a difference. In pretty much any other scenario given this silly gear it'd seem like dex or agi beats it.

That said, stamina does seem like the best bang for the buck during a career of raiding, I just don't see how it's a real minmax option even for raiding once fully BIS. Outside of raiding dex has got it soundly beat with that level of gear too.

[Ripqozko]

But in this fever dream full BIS-scenario you would be stamina capped without any buffs so the saving a stamina buffslot wouldnt be an issue. It'd only be relevant if you went for low cha high MR gear for something like raid pulling and you'd think that 20 stamina would somehow be relevant enough to make a difference. In pretty much any other scenario given this silly gear it'd seem like dex or agi beats it.

That said, stamina does seem like the best bang for the buck during a career of raiding, I just don't see how it's a real minmax option even for raiding once fully BIS. Outside of raiding dex has got it soundly beat with that level of gear too.

Cause bis is dumb , gear like 8 chars in 2nd bis for less. Hope that helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

But in this fever dream full BIS-scenario you would be stamina capped without any buffs so the saving a stamina buffslot wouldnt be an issue. It'd only be relevant if you went for low cha high MR gear for something like raid pulling and you'd think that 20 stamina would somehow be relevant enough to make a difference. In pretty much any other scenario given this silly gear it'd seem like dex or agi beats it.

That said, stamina does seem like the best bang for the buck during a career of raiding, I just don't see how it's a real minmax option even for raiding once fully BIS. Outside of raiding dex has got it soundly beat with that level of gear too.

As I mentioned before, you are not always going to be at STA cap. Your Magelo isn't taking into account resistance gear.

A BiS Monk would have https://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky and https://wiki.project1999.com/Shawl_of_Protection . Putting on both will reduce your STA by 25 on https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Monkeybis . If you put 20 points into STA, you would still be at 249 STA without buffs, which is honestly good enough to keep your buff slot open. 6 STA probably isn't worth getting Riotous Health.

Your DEX and AGI will already be well over cap with Avatar, so putting points into those isn't really a good idea. If you really want to pre-proc Avatar before a fight begins as fast as possible, you can use stalking probes, duel a friend, get a DEX buff and then click it off, etc. Also remember that you are getting +60 DEX from Focus of Spirit. Even with Robe of the Azure Sky equipped you would be at 238 DEX just with that one buff. You will proc Avatar fast enough at that amount.

[Ripqozko]

As I mentioned before, you are not always going to be at STA cap. Your Magelo isn't taking into account resistance gear.

A BiS Monk would have https://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky and https://wiki.project1999.com/Shawl_of_Protection . Putting on both will reduce your STA by 25 on https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Monkeybis .

Your DEX and AGI will already be well over cap with Avatar, so putting points into those isn't really a good idea.

A bis monk would have a shroud, sorry you dont got warder loot

[Toxigen]

yikes bis monk no shroud try again maybe next server sorry you dont got

[DeathsSilkyMist]

A bis monk would have a shroud, sorry you dont got warder loot

You would still have Robe of the Azure Sky since it has 5 more resists than Shroud. Monk gear especially has less options for resistance gear, unlike plate.

[Keebz]

In a fever dream where you had full raid BIS-gear, wouldn't you be stamina and str capped without buffs or avatar proc?

I have no idea what I'm doing but throwing together a kit of gear focusing on 3 x AoB, regen+eb+truevision, AC, HP and MR (roughly that order) and I'm at 254 sta and str without a single attribute point spent, even whilst using summoned shurikens.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Monkeybis
(feel free to C&C my picks).

The typical recommendation is to put all points into stamina if you wish to minmax. Is it simply not true once you have transcended your corporeal body in your mom's basement and achieved full BIS?

Or am I simply really bad at playing magelo online? If not, should we dump points into dex instead for faster non-buffed primal procs? Or agi for that AC? Or charisma for vendor prices and... uh DI?

Well, that's not BiS. You have a bunch of sub-optimal items with lots of stam like Earring of Living Flame, Net of the Deep Sea and to a lesser extent Ancient Wyvern Hide Tunic. They can all be replaced by items with more raw HP and/or other desirable effects. This is why you go stam.

[Crede]

You would still have Robe of the Azure Sky since it has 5 more resists than Shroud. Monk gear especially has less options for resistance gear, unlike plate.

Highly doubt any monk is taking robe over shroud you also get a boatload of sta which you could always swap in more resist stuff to make up that 5 sv

[Toxigen]

You would still have Robe of the Azure Sky since it has 5 more resists than Shroud. Monk gear especially has less options for resistance gear, unlike plate.

nah

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Highly doubt any monk is taking robe over shroud

You would have both, and swap to Robe of Azure Sky when you need more resistances. Monks have a bit more trouble maxing out their resistances due to having no good resistance options for Legs, Feet, and Arms. Silver chains can work for legs, but they are very heavy.

[sajbert]

Well, that's not BiS. You have a bunch of sub-optimal items with lots of stam like Earring of Living Flame, Net of the Deep Sea and to a lesser extent Ancient Wyvern Hide Tunic. They can all be replaced by items with more raw HP and/or other desirable effects. This is why you go stam.
That could explain it. Net of the Deep Sea has highest AC though and EB is fun. Cloak of the Firestorm has 5sta less and Falling Stars if you go for MR has NO stamina. Runs with the theme of the shawl too, if you go for MR instead of AC then stamina does make the most sense then.

So I guess solo dungeon hero goes dex, MR raiding hero goes sta? Seems about right?

[sajbert]

A bis monk would have a shroud, sorry you dont got warder loot
Aren't most shroud monks humans? tsk tsk tsk.

Sadly it's also too ugly to be considered BIS by any credible metric. It's one of those cursed items. If you have it youll have to wear it forever even though you look like poop, literally.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So I guess solo dungeon hero goes dex, MR raiding hero goes sta? Seems about right?

Personally solo I would still go STA. DEX is still easier to cap if you are soloing in BiS gear due to having Avatar proc.

[sajbert]

Personally solo I would still go STA. DEX is still easier to cap if you are soloing in BiS gear due to having Avatar proc.
But wouldnt max AC be your best bet for solo? With max AC BIS kit you will cap sta, even if you did not leg stamina buff would get you there. And like I said, going dex means faster avatar proc.

Sure, MR has its uses too (for solo) but more than AC? I wonder...

[DeathsSilkyMist]

But wouldnt max AC be your best bet for solo? With max AC BIS kit you will cap sta, even if you did not leg stamina buff would get you there. And like I said, going dex means faster avatar proc.

Sure, MR has its uses too (for solo) but more than AC? I wonder...

With BiS gear you are well over the softcap. Softcap is 289 worn ac, and your Magelo is currently at roughly 500 worn ac.

Even when swapping out resistance gear you are going to be well over 400 worn ac. You don't need to worry about ac at that point.

It's an interesting idea to wonder about how much faster 20 DEX will proc your avatar initially, but in the long run I don't forsee it being a big issue. If you have Holgaresh Elder Beads you will just proc avatar on eyes anyway, so it isn't like you are losing HP by waiting on a proc while fighting in combat.

[sajbert]

With BiS gear you are well over the softcap. Softcap is 289 worn ac, and your Magelo is currently at roughly 500 worn ac.

Even when swapping out resistance gear you are going to be well over 400 worn ac. You don't need to worry about ac at that point.

It's an interesting idea to wonder about how much faster 20 DEX will proc your avatar initially, but in the long run I don't forsee it being a big issue. If you have Holgaresh Elder Beads you will just proc avatar on eyes anyway, so it isn't like you are losing HP by waiting on a proc while fighting in combat.
Good point about the beads. This I did not consider yet.

[Solist]

You would still have Robe of the Azure Sky since it has 5 more resists than Shroud. Monk gear especially has less options for resistance gear, unlike plate.

Dude, no real monk has the bag space for carrying something like that. Any that do are shitter's collecting shinies, not winning mobs.

Also if we're using that logic, he should carry a Ssra's eyepatch for the extra +1 to all over the doze face.

/bonk

Anyway, why is that monk magelo being used anyway, it's pretty far from BiS or ideal for anything.
FoN+Gharns for stats & DPS over abashi.
ST Earring
Vulak face over doze arguably. it's a tossup.
Probably SS boots over destroyer for HP
Vyemm range over a shuriken
PD robe over ikky chest

Huge amount of resists missing from that for no real loss.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Dude, no real monk has the bag space for carrying something like that. Any that do are shitter's collecting shinies, not winning mobs.

Also if we're using that logic, he should carry a Ssra's eyepatch for the extra +1 to all over the doze face.

/bonk

Anyway, why is that monk magelo being used anyway, it's pretty far from BiS or ideal for anything.
FoN+Gharns for stats & DPS over abashi.
ST Earring
Vulak face over doze arguably. it's a tossup.
Probably SS boots over destroyer for HP
Vyemm range over a shuriken
PD robe over ikky chest

Huge amount of resists missing from that for no real loss.

If you want to go with the "real monk" argument, a "real monk" won't have a Shroud of Longevity either:) Statistically speaking most Monks will not have that item.

I agree that the Magelo provided earlier wasn't great, so let's make some better ones! When discussing full BiS gear the question becomes which combination yields the most stats, not which individual items are awesome.

These are not going to use a range item, because Monks will be pulling with javelins in the ranged slot often enough. Obviously you can switch between a ranged weapon and a stat item, but realistically that is not always easy when doing tough pulls, and you can still get AoE'd while you have the ranged item equipped.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:DSMMonkBiSTest01 - This first one is what it would take to get as close to 205 MR as possible without sacrificing too much. The magic number is 205 because flowers give you +50 to each resistance as a buff. This one gets us to 204 MR when wearing a Robe of the Azure Sky.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:DSMMonkBiSTest02 - This one assumes the Monk was able to get both the Robe of Longetivity and the Clawed Guardian Bracer from warders. This one gets to 204 MR as well due to the Clawed Guardian Bracer.

As you can see, the stat differences are extremely minor. With buffs you are simply looking at a difference of 15HP. Really the only difference between the Shroud of Longevity wearing monk and the Robe of Azure Sky monk is the +9 regeneration you would get. You cannot use the full 15 amount because both setups have 3 Aura of Battle items.

I believe most people agree human monks are just as capable as Iksar monks without the +8 standing regeneration. Realistically speaking if that is the case, you can live without the +9 regeneration as well. You could also think of an Iksar monk as a human monk wearing warder loot:)

Due to how close the Magelos are, this becomes (yet again) more of a fight about how useful racials are than anything else. If you believe Shroud of Longetivity's regeneration is a game changer, then you must also say Iksar regeneration is a game changer. This means human monks have a significant disadvantage.

[Solist]

You're making some weird assumptions about how a monk functions on p1999. No monk on p99 has used a javelin in over 12 years now; I think I've used 6 individual javs in 12 months or so total... That meta died about month 6 of kunark duking out trak engages.

So with those assumptions being slighty off it means your magelo's are still pretty poor
No silver bracelet of speed?
No abashi/FoN equipped?
No Ring of Destruction?
Noone's carrying Do Vissar's around on a monk except Kelz. Again bagspace and the epic click combined with firefist or grim aura is your #1 slot dispell repellent. Permanant buff slot 1.

Abashi is inventory clickable, you never equip that item except once you have 4-5 FoN procs tanking. You never use javs...ever.

Other changes I made was boots to +hp/resist, you have enough AC at that point.
Range added.

The argument is about bagspace too. So you don't have bagspace to carry a CT shield around for resists etc. You don't have bagspace to carry a spare shawl etc. A top end monk has maaaaybe 3 slots free total, with half their keys banked.

Anyway check this one out for a clearer picture.

monkforumhero (https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Fixedmonkforumhero)

Shroud of longevity is a game changer because it is regen, plus the 100hp (which is 1.4 regen/tick on mend cooldown), plus resists, plus a bag slot. Combine all those and it's why it is good. Plus it's a lot of stamina in one slot which is a buffslot midway through velious which is fairly huge. Without shroud you're using koi back and maybe stamina boots to cap until you're about 2 slots from BiS. Monks are incredibly bagslot, and buff cap limited.

As for throwing items, maybe when doing king I'll summon some throwing things...and the range slot goes right back the moment i've thrown the projectile. Might throw a jav at a vaniki or guardian K. Pretty darn rare they come out of the bag though.

[meathook]

Depends what you think your endgame is gonna look like. But if you think youre gonna be one of the top geared monks on the server, then dex is the build. Sta is the build for second-tier monks who end up with 1 or 2 vulak/doze items. Top monks easily max out STA without buffs. You cant max dex without buff or large sacrifices in other stats.

People on p99 consistently underestimate how relevant dex is.

Here is my Magelo: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Meathookk

[Keebz]

Can we all collectively agree to stop responding to DSM?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Depends what you think your endgame is gonna look like. But if you think youre gonna be one of the top geared monks on the server, then dex is the build. Sta is the build for second-tier monks who end up with 1 or 2 vulak/doze items. Top monks easily max out STA without buffs. You cant max dex without buff or large sacrifices in other stats.

People on p99 consistently underestimate how relevant dex is.

Here is my Magelo: https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Meathookk

All your combat stats are going to be capped with FoS and Avatar, so that isn't a good argument.

You're making some weird assumptions about how a monk functions on p1999. No monk on p99 has used a javelin in over 12 years now; I think I've used 6 individual javs in 12 months or so total... That meta died about month 6 of kunark duking out trak engages.

So with those assumptions being slighty off it means your magelo's are still pretty poor
No silver bracelet of speed?
No abashi/FoN equipped?
No Ring of Destruction?
Noone's carrying Do Vissar's around on a monk except Kelz. Again bagspace and the epic click combined with firefist or grim aura is your #1 slot dispell repellent. Permanant buff slot 1.

Abashi is inventory clickable, you never equip that item except once you have 4-5 FoN procs tanking. You never use javs...ever.

Other changes I made was boots to +hp/resist, you have enough AC at that point.
Range added.

The argument is about bagspace too. So you don't have bagspace to carry a CT shield around for resists etc. You don't have bagspace to carry a spare shawl etc. A top end monk has maaaaybe 3 slots free total, with half their keys banked.

Anyway check this one out for a clearer picture.

monkforumhero (https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Fixedmonkforumhero)

Shroud of longevity is a game changer because it is regen, plus the 100hp (which is 1.4 regen/tick on mend cooldown), plus resists, plus a bag slot. Combine all those and it's why it is good. Plus it's a lot of stamina in one slot which is a buffslot midway through velious which is fairly huge. Without shroud you're using koi back and maybe stamina boots to cap until you're about 2 slots from BiS. Monks are incredibly bagslot, and buff cap limited.

As for throwing items, maybe when doing king I'll summon some throwing things...and the range slot goes right back the moment i've thrown the projectile. Might throw a jav at a vaniki or guardian K. Pretty darn rare they come out of the bag though.

I do have abashi equipped in the Magelo. You might want to look closer instead of simply trying to be silly.

If you want to cap resists at 255 Ring of Destruction is inferior to Essence Ring. You are basically swapping 7 all res for 35 HP. Not a good trade. Good catch on the Silver Bracelet of Speed though, I did miss that one.

I am not sure why you are concerned about bag space either, since that Magelo only has 4 swap pieces.

If Shroud was a Game Changer Monks would request Regrowth instead of Ring 10, which they often don't. If you can live without 5 regen, you can live without 9.

[Solist]

You do not need abashii equipped. Noone equips abashii, it's an inventory item.

Please look at my magelo i posted so you know what you're talking about finally.

You very obviously don't play a monk or know anything about p99 pulling if you think bagspace isn't an issue. Here's a real quick list off top of my head that I carry generally a mix of the below. +- 1 or so of each as consumables get smashed, wort gets eaten, lend out shit that isn't returned (wtb tash sticks continually).

Using 7 bags gives you 71 slots.
3 are keys with 2 banked
2 are food and stat food
1 gate pot
1 thurg pot
1 wc cap
1 cazic pot
10 worts
5-10 forlorn totems
1 poison cure pot
5 wand of frost bolts, maybe 7-8 thin boned wands if not
1 scepter
5 flowers
jboots
2-3 sow pots
5 invis rings
maybe a MR pot as sometimes you need to exceed cap (kiting fear where you get tashed and want to still be over 255)
beads
aon sometimes
ot hammer
grim aura item
see invis bracer
PD crown
crown of hatred
lev cloak
shuriken bracer
nightmare hide
idol
1stack javs (you keep these bagged not ammo slot as its faster to loot corpse that way)
2 task sticks
reaper
larrikens mask (to invis your eyeball, nexona pull+invis others for whatever dumb shit you do)

Idk how much that adds up to, but it's a decent amount of shit to haul around on any competent monk.

edit:
I counted. 67. I just checked and I carry 68 things on my mnk as there's usually 1-2 quest items. But only 3 wand of frost bolts as im a shitter.

edit 2:
Lol, no abashi listed either...Sorry I don't got. But I do carry 2 golem wands at all times a poor man's alternative.

edit 3:
Forgot add a bio orb too, pretty darn handy in about 4 situations I do semi commonly (low man/trio plate house, PoG, kiting shit in DN like vaniki/vilefang/queen to preslow, general goofing about).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You do not need abashii equipped. Noone equips abashii, it's an inventory item.

Please look at my magelo i posted so you know what you're talking about finally.

I didn't say you need it equipped in my last post. You said:


No abashi/FoN equipped?


I assumed you thought no weapon was equipped at all.

I think you didn't read the description in the Magelo, which says I am showing the worst stats by equipping abashi.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You do not need abashii equipped. Noone equips abashii, it's an inventory item.

Please look at my magelo i posted so you know what you're talking about finally.

You very obviously don't play a monk or know anything about p99 pulling if you think bagspace isn't an issue. Here's a real quick list off top of my head that I carry generally a mix of the below. +- 1 or so of each as consumables get smashed, wort gets eaten, lend out shit that isn't returned (wtb tash sticks continually).

Using 7 bags gives you 71 slots.
3 are keys with 2 banked
2 are food and stat food
1 gate pot
1 thurg pot
1 wc cap
1 cazic pot
10 worts
5-10 forlorn totems
1 poison cure pot
5 wand of frost bolts, maybe 7-8 thin boned wands if not
1 scepter
5 flowers
jboots
2-3 sow pots
5 invis rings
maybe a MR pot as sometimes you need to exceed cap (kiting fear where you get tashed and want to still be over 255)
beads
aon sometimes
ot hammer
grim aura item
see invis bracer
PD crown
crown of hatred
lev cloak
shuriken bracer
nightmare hide
idol
1stack javs (you keep these bagged not ammo slot as its faster to loot corpse that way)
2 task sticks
reaper
larrikens mask (to invis your eyeball, nexona pull+invis others for whatever dumb shit you do)

Idk how much that adds up to, but it's a decent amount of shit to haul around on any competent monk.

I didn't say bag space was unimportant. You really need to learn how to read lol. You were simply making a point about bag space, which is irrelevant to the Magelo I posted. If you don't want Do'Vasirs gauntlets, that is perfectly fine, but even yourself can afford 1 slot if you wanted to have it. You don't need stat food, as an example.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The main problem I have with your Magelo https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Fixedmonkforumhero is you are completely relying on https://wiki.project1999.com/Vyemm's_Left_Eye for 25 MR, which is dangerous whenever you need to swap to a ranged item. You are also losing that 75 max HP if you unequip it. Not saying you shouldn't have a ranged item stat piece, but my Magelos were designed to show you what your stats look like in the worst situation if you want max resistances. You are at risk of not realizing where all your stats are coming from.

[Solist]

Ignoring magelo, I don't rely on any one item. I run 320MR on my main kiting class for fear/zlandi/vaniki/kland. On the monk somewhere around 235 I found has been adequate. I'd like more sure, but it's adequate.

As for that item, you never need to unequip a range item. Before the projectile even lands the 'real' range item is back in. You never, ever have permanant range items in range. Mouse a jav into range slot, hit range attack, mouse range item back in. It's a <1 second operation. You don't run around with a jav or shuriken equipped for 20mins waiting to throw it at something. You use wands for that.

There isn't a situation you remove the range item for a projectile for more than that time in the game of everquest, in this expension/content range. Maybe later on in the game you unequip slots for some reason, shuriken from time maybe?

And again Do vissar is about having a permanant worn spell gem 1 instaclick always up.
Grim aura or firefist are buff 1. Start fighting they get overwritten by celestial tranquility. End fighting, click grim aura/firefist back on. Not to do with stats.

Even when running around kiting you're constantly being dispelled like a vaniki pull. You want to be able to spam 4 to 5 self instant buffs on to protect a deeply buried sow. (and speaking generally here about warriors too as there's knowledge for them to share) Tanking glimmers (or sontalak) in ToV you want to use equipped/worn, non targeted insta clicks so items like AoN, 10th ring, feshlak BP, monk epic, tunare belt, lady nev cloak are valuable beyond any lacking stats they may have. There's a lot of value in having those items beyond what seems like a rando clicky.

[Ripqozko]

Ignoring magelo, I don't rely on any one item. I run 320MR on my main kiting class for fear/zlandi/vaniki/kland. On the monk somewhere around 235 I found has been adequate. I'd like more sure, but it's adequate.

As for that item, you never need to unequip a range item. Before the projectile even lands the 'real' range item is back in. You never, ever have permanant range items in range. Mouse a jav into range slot, hit range attack, mouse range item back in. It's a <1 second operation. You don't run around with a jav or shuriken equipped for 20mins waiting to throw it at something. You use wands for that.

There isn't a situation you remove the range item for a projectile for more than that time in the game of everquest, in this expension/content range. Maybe later on in the game you unequip slots for some reason, shuriken from time maybe?

And again Do vissar is about having a permanant worn spell gem 1 instaclick always up.
Grim aura or firefist are buff 1. Start fighting they get overwritten by celestial tranquility. End fighting, click grim aura/firefist back on. Not to do with stats.

Even when running around kiting you're constantly being dispelled like a vaniki pull. You want to be able to spam 4 to 5 self instant buffs on to protect a deeply buried sow. (and speaking generally here about warriors too as there's knowledge for them to share) Tanking glimmers (or sontalak) in ToV you want to use equipped/worn, non targeted insta clicks so items like AoN, 10th ring, feshlak BP, monk epic, tunare belt, lady nev cloak are valuable beyond any lacking stats they may have. There's a lot of value in having those items beyond what seems like a rando clicky.

Still jav pd? One few times I'd think you'd use one, clicks work otherwise.

[Solist]

Can click from door or bow/jav. But it's a bard race that one, doubt a monk or rogue has done an initial pd in 5 years. Bards move so fast that stopsong and wand is faster than 250 jav from 250 as you close the gap and wand before the projectile.

But picking up a loose dragon from max range absolutely.

Edit: I don't bard a lot, did for 2nd time in a decade last month. might bard again in 2030.

[Solist]

You don't need stat food, as an example.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Sandwich_of_Foul_Smelling_Herbs

Force feed yourself iron rations or icy mushrooms or chokidai jerky,
then put the sandwich ABOVE your other food in inventory to get those stats. Set gina timers for 'you cant possible eat' and force feed yourself as needed or move the sandwiches back behind the othe long duration food.

Do you even play everquest man? This is basic stuff. :eek:

[Ripqozko]

Can click from door or bow/jav. But it's a bard race that one, doubt a monk or rogue has done an initial pd in 5 years. Bards move so fast that stopsong and wand is faster than 250 jav from 250 as you close the gap and wand before the projectile.

But picking up a loose dragon from max range absolutely.

Edit: I don't bard a lot, did for 2nd time in a decade last month. might bard again in 2030.

Ahh I just remember jav can go through I guess a bow prob can too

[Solist]

Ahh I just remember jav can go through I guess a bow prob can too

Remember when Naulken launched one over Hokushin on the first bow fte for PD ever, setting off that chain of shitshow we still deal with today for motg/sev etc. good times

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Sandwich_of_Foul_Smelling_Herbs

Force feed yourself iron rations or icy mushrooms or chokidai jerky,
then put the sandwich ABOVE your other food in inventory to get those stats. Set gina timers for 'you cant possible eat' and force feed yourself as needed or move the sandwiches back behind the othe long duration food.

Do you even play everquest man? This is basic stuff. :eek:

You missed the word need. I didn't say stat food was bad. I said you didn't need it, which is true. If you are at a point where your bag slots are full, bag space becomes more important than 50 HP.

[sajbert]

So this is my takehome message from this topic so far:

- There's no consensus on what a true BIS setup is, unsurprising as its situation dependent but most posters here assume a raiding standpoint.

- DSM pointed out there is an AC softcap but did not prove that AC despite diminished return isn't the stat to go for in any tanking or solo scenario.

- For advanced pulls players seldom use javelins but instead use clickies which allows the use of ranged slot items like Vyemm's left Eye.

- Several posters have pointed out that if you forego AC for MR (a more relevant stat than AC for DPS and pulling) you will have less sta than in the profile I linked. Items like Robe of Azure Sky, Essence Pearl, Shawl of Protection and Cloak of the Falling Stars do not appear to be controversial picks as far as MR is concerned.

- Adding ALL of the above items to my original profile and equipping Fon+Gharns you're at 234 stamina with 0 attribute points spent, 239 if you use Do'Vassir's Gauntlets of Might. You could of course add more questionable item picks for even higher MR but there appears to be no consensus at to if the sacrifice is worth it even for raid pulling purposes. 40hp difference, which likely will never matter BUT we're talking minmaxing here!

- People consider Gharn's + FoN superior over Abashi. I have yet to see any DPS comparison made with velious 2h bonus taken into account. No consideration to ripostes, once again more of a raiding mindset in the topic.

- Buff slots matter and being able to forego a stamina buff is valuable although it appears to only be relevant for advanced pulls and AoE debuff fights that aren't trivial already.

- You can proc Primal off Eye of Zomm, meaning any time when you're not in a hurry and it's motivated to set up (solo or in raid) dex and str only needs to excede 150.

- Meathook is a monk celeb and favors dex. Cecily is a straight up gangsters and enjoys dex too.

Discussion:

For solo and small group challenges HP, AC and dex to me appear the better choices. Unless you use Holgresh Elder Beads to proc your primal in which case more points in dex is pointless. In most other situations you're either chain killing (primal is up) or the fight is too trivial to bother with tedious set-ups and dex wins out anyway. Velious stamina buff clicky is 45 mins so it's not too hard to keep up and adds another 23sta.

For raiding MR is valued and AC is not. High MR pieces are low on stamina and you want to preserve buffslots if possible. So for the highest HP + MR build stamina is the better choice.

Since it's possible to without a single point invested in sta get 200+ MR unbuffed and 249 sta (which caps self-buffed) I'll go with 20 dex. Should I ever need more MR than that in a raid puller setting and drop stamina gear for more MR I could always deal with having one less buffslot or 40 less HP, it'll never matter.

Whilst the stamina crew is trying to proc worker's sledgemallet my monk will already be dead outside VP, god bless you Talendor.

Also, leveling with dex and Tranquil Staff seems fun.

[Toxigen]

if i had to pick between having abashi OR gharns + FoN

itd be abashi

[Ripqozko]

if i had to pick between having abashi OR gharns + FoN

itd be abashi

I'd choose 2 cek fists and gear 5 alts

[Toxigen]

I'd choose 2 cek fists and gear 5 alts

mm yeah i was guilty of doing this too

[Croco]

So this is my takehome message from this topic so far:

- There's no consensus on what a true BIS setup is, unsurprising as its situation dependent but most posters here assume a raiding standpoint.

- DSM pointed out there is an AC softcap but did not prove that AC despite diminished return isn't the stat to go for in any tanking or solo scenario.

If you are raid pulling anything above a dark blue con your AC above a certain point isn't going to matter that much but having max stam giving you as many possible hps as you can get might matter for a bigger mend that could save your life. Putting all your opening points into stam makes it easier to gear to a point of either maxing stam with your own shitty self buff from velious pants or not needing a stam buff at all which is great. You save time and possibly mana for yourself and the shaman that doesn't have to stam buff you.

Similarly if you are a monk and you're actually gearing for AC you're doing it wrong. Anything over about 1300ac in raid gear is great but not necessary to sacrifice other stats for.

Abashi over 1 handers all the way.

[Ripqozko]

If you are raid pulling anything above a dark blue con your AC above a certain point isn't going to matter that much but having max stam giving you as many possible hps as you can get might matter for a bigger mend that could save your life. Putting all your opening points into stam makes it easier to gear to a point of either maxing stam with your own shitty self buff from velious pants or not needing a stam buff at all which is great. You save time and possibly mana for yourself and the shaman that doesn't have to stam buff you.

Similarly if you are a monk and you're actually gearing for AC you're doing it wrong. Anything over about 1300ac in raid gear is great but not necessary to sacrifice other stats for.

Abashi over 1 handers all the way.

Did you ever get back in riot?

[Croco]

Did you ever get back in riot?

Never tried. My monk on wayfarer's haven is over 11k buffed now though. :D

Omens about to drop in May. Great time to start some characters.

[Ripqozko]

Never tried. My monk on wayfarer's haven is over 11k buffed now though. :D

Omens about to drop in May. Great time to start some characters.

Just don't attend any open raids there

[Solist]

if i had to pick between having abashi OR gharns + FoN

itd be abashi

Agree.
But at the level of magelo this guy is posting, you have all three, and an essence mace.

[Croco]

Just don't attend any open raids there

Almost all raids are instanced so that's not even a concern.

Hopefully we get our first Tunat kill tomorrow!

[Toxigen]

Almost all raids are instanced so that's not even a concern.

Hopefully we get our first Tunat kill tomorrow!

wow thats SO cool!

[sajbert]

Agree.
But at the level of magelo this guy is posting, you have all three, and an essence mace.

Well now, you can’t be a filthy casual can you?

All jokes aside, this was a good topic. I hope it can help other aspiring monks make their choice. In the end it turns out AGI was the superior stat.

[ithaqua]

Almost all raids are instanced so that's not even a concern.

Hopefully we get our first Tunat kill tomorrow!

Hope he drops a solid stone of the iron fist! GoD was an amazing expansion )

[Trelaboon]

Cause bis is dumb , gear like 8 chars in 2nd bis for less. Hope that helps.

This is the way. Technically I gear 8 toons in like.....7th from BiS, but seven kinda sounds like second.

[7thGate]

If I was actually going to go this top-end, I would probably go CHA and just ask for DI before pulling things or doing AOE fights. Its super silly levels of optimization, but having an extra 7% chance to proc DI is probably more valuable than stats which only do something when you don't have buffs.

Probably have to bribe your clerics to carry emeralds and cast it on you though, or work out the bagspace to carry emeralds for people. Most clerics I've seen aren't carrying emeralds by default. This reminds me to start asking for DI on AOE heavy fights though on Jayya, I'm carrying emeralds anyway to get Shamans to Avatar me. She's got starting points in CHA for RPing reasons, might as well wring that tiny bit of extra benefit out of them.

[Coriander]

So for sake of argument, say someone were going to make a new Monk, Iksar, and they were going to mostly solo, maybe help some people out now and again... all pts into STA? (Edit: Or even if it were Human?)

[Snaggles]

So for sake of argument, say someone were going to make a new Monk, Iksar, and they were going to mostly solo, maybe help some people out now and again... all pts into STA? (Edit: Or even if it were Human?)

Generally these starting stat threads are contentious over 20 starting points and end up like 30+ pages long these days. No fault to you, these boards are just…a lot.

Unbuffed Str you won’t be at cap outside extremely good gear, or bad gear that pumps Str at a detriment to stuff like hps and AC. That’s less attack and less dps. 20 less stamina is less hps but only about 80 at level 60, at that level your mend will give you back 20 more health (25% of 80) than if you didn’t have the stamina.

I’m in the minority here thinking most players won’t check all the boxes for difficult to acquire gear, whether purchased, farmed or raided. I also personally think any time you can do more dps is a good thing outside maybe a knight who literally is just an aggro shield. More hps is always nice, more strength means you can wear stuff without it (resist stuff) and still cap with a strength buff.

In the end it’s only 20 points. Picking easy blues, using good weapons, ideally having a fungi are the solo keys. Outside trying to bum buffs when possible.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So for sake of argument, say someone were going to make a new Monk, Iksar, and they were going to mostly solo, maybe help some people out now and again... all pts into STA? (Edit: Or even if it were Human?)

STA is the safest choice if you are concerned about starting stats. By concerned I mean if you are the type of player who worries you may have wasted them later on in your character's life. I did 5 STR 15 STA on my Monk, but that was just because I made him like 8 years ago and wasn't planning on leveling him lol. The character was just a name holder. But I decided to continue leveling him in the end instead of deleting and remaking for 5 points.

You can take a look at my Magelo. Even with decent twink gear and an epic, none of my combat stats are above 150 unbuffed. I kill things just fine. The DPS loss from not putting 20 points into STR is minimal, as is the HP gain from 20 STA.

[Samoht]

Putting starting points into STR or DEX is dumb when you're talking about end game. Focus + Avatar + Boon will max these out easily.

You know what will be harder to max? STA.

Melee characters need to put points into STA.

[Toxigen]

So for sake of argument, say someone were going to make a new Monk, Iksar, and they were going to mostly solo, maybe help some people out now and again... all pts into STA? (Edit: Or even if it were Human?)

If you never plan on raiding and are on a budget / casual mindset, STR.

[Snaggles]

Putting starting points into STR or DEX is dumb when you're talking about end game. Focus + Avatar + Boon will max these out easily.

You know what will be harder to max? STA.

Melee characters need to put points into STA.

He’s not mentioning end game, BiS and primals. Mostly soloing and helping people out.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

He’s not mentioning end game, BiS and primals. Mostly soloing and helping people out.

STA is still a great choice for a casual player. P99 is a long game, and people can change their minds about what they want to do in a year or two. I never planned on raiding either when I made my SK and Shaman, but I eventually tried it out and liked it.

You won't have a problem regardless of what you choose. As I said earlier, if OP is the type of player who has regrets about something they can never change, STA is the safest choice. You won't notice a significant difference from having 20 less STR.

[Keebz]

Mend / Bind Wound both scale off HP, so STA is still very good for soloing. HP is like really good on monks in particular.

[Snaggles]

It’s 20 attack or 80 hps (20 extra each mend). None of this will affect your game significantly.

My only point is whatever you do, max your attack.

[sajbert]

Assuming max gear which you likely never will get, going max sta will allow you to equip another MR-piece whilst still having capped unbuffed stamina. This is mostly useful for raid pulls but the number if times this will make or break a pull will obviously be few.

On the way to best-in-slot or near best-in-slot gear stamina will still be a useful stat as it also helps your mend.

Str isn’t that easy to cap unbuffed and is probably more useful whilst leveling but later becomes a dead stat.

Dex will not be capped with best-in-slot gear and will allow for faster procs of primal weapon. If you tryhard however you can proc off of holgresh beads before the fight but few ever do this. Proc affects proc rate so without a proc weapon it’s more or less a useless stat, monks do have a lot or proc weapons though.

So IMO dex or sta is the way to go. I went dex because I enjoy proc effects, I don’t really think it’s the best choice but it’s a passable one if that’s what you’re looking to do.

[Solist]

When do you think you need more MR gear when you're in end game gear?

There is literally one item to swap out (chest).

I'd stack max dex. You always want more dex. Aggro generation and procs on a monk are incredibly useful in the endgame and you absolutely have no buffslots available to stack dex or avatar or stamina. If you're seriously in near endgame gear buffslots are your limitation in every instance. Charisma would be my other pick for DI.

[skulldudes]

i did 10str/10sta on my handsome human monk. it really doesn't matter, lol. plenty of non-BiS/super coveted gear to jack your STA up. mix in some ss armor (that pants buff!), netted kelp, prexus totem, HGLs, BoBs etc etc and you'll be pushing 200 regardless

[Kirdan]

If you are twinking a new monk on a mature server, STA is the best choice for most. This is what most people are asking for with these threads. This is regardless of race.

If you are starting out as a monk on a fresh server, STR is the best choice and it's not even close. You won't be capping STR for a long time and it's a constant dps boost for your entire leveling progression, most of which you will definitely not be capping STR. STA is terrible HP returns for most of your leveling progression, and only really shines in later kunark/early velious when you are lvl 60 and don't have velious raid gear yet. It doesn't take long to hit 255 STA buffed in velious. The tradeoff is essentially having +20 STR while leveling for many months vs having uncapped STA for a few months.

[fortior]

If you are starting out as a monk on a fresh server, STR is the best choice and it's not even close.

Would like to add to this that if you're starting as a monk on a fresh server, you're human, and your weapon options are complete dogshit. So get what you can get with STR.

[plzrelax]

I think there’s an argument to be made even for going all STA on a fresh server. I rolled a monk when green launched and split it half between STR and STA. I found myself pulling most of the time, benefitting more from more hp. If I did it again I would at least consider going all STA

[fortior]

Pulling is more of a sustain/regen thing than a total hp thing, more STA doesn't make you a better puller at all.

[Jimjam]

I think there’s an argument to be made even for going all STA on a fresh server. I rolled a monk when green launched and split it half between STR and STA. I found myself pulling most of the time, benefitting more from more hp. If I did it again I would at least consider going all STA

Lots of situations where mend gets pumped. Obviously 20 stamina doesn’t improve mend that much, especially prior to 60, but even so it must accumulate a tonne of extra hp across a monk’s career.

Further, unlike other classes, many monks won’t loot until encumbered so strengh fails to practically improve carry.

Those are a big repped to sta and negged to str.

[Gloomlord]

You pretty much have to go over the monk soft cap if you're starting out, though. The game becomes horrific for a monk player if you don't.