Bard starting stat points

[Selene]

I keep hearing and reading different things about where to put points in as a bard during character creation. I don't intend to raid with this toon but mostly just solo and/or group for xp/loot camps.

I don't buy the idea of stamina being worth the points, I don't see how having those last 80 hp at level 60 would be a huge game-changer.

Can someone who has played a bard extensively comment on the pros and cons of putting all my points in dex vs. charisma?

[Ripqozko]

dex helps with missing notes and procs, cha for lull. i know ya said ya dont plan to raid or anything but even still resists>HP>rest doesnt matter. pretty much how ya gear a bard, sta still wonderful at 60.

[Vivitron]

I went cha, probably in large part because I had been playing an Enchanter. Cha reduces crit lull failures. That's usefull if you like to dungeon solo or duo. Not very important in 6-man xp groups in my experience, though -- an xp group can handle some adds.

If you end up hitting 59 there's a +45 cha buff song, if you get the epic it boosts that to 81, and the epic has +20 cha on it directly. So if a crit lull fail would be a real pain I can use that song, and in that case I'm solidly over 200 cha and I think the starting points have little impact.

Supposedly cha helps mez and maybe charm resists some, but I think crit lulls are the only place it's likely to be notable for a bard.

Dex supposedly reduces bard-fizzles. I don't have a good sense of how much -- I always just recast the fizzles and don't worry too much about it. I wouldn't hate having more dex to proc quicker.

I think sta is a good default recommendation. If I rerolled I would probably be most tempted by sta or cha.

[pink grapefruit]

hi.

i mained a bard on live, and remember all the fun math that was posted on the concert hall forum back in the day. they wanted to figure out how cha worked and it was a mystery for a long time. it was discovered that cha has no effect on mez.

cha decreases chance of critical resist on lull, and increases average charm duration. it was also thought that some combination of dex and cha together determined how often missed notes would occur. dex decreases rate of missed notes and determines rate of weapon proc ofc.

now, my argument: charm duration is not unimportant, but remember that no amount of cha will push this duration beyond the 18 second maximum. bard gear also has a ton of cha on it, and it's not difficult to raise this stat up to a decent level even with normal midlevel gear on. critical lull resist is much more important, but again keep in mind that there is already a lot of cha on bard gear to begin with. at level 59 you get a song that will increase cha like that other poster said, and if you get epic that 1.8 singing mod will increase 45 to some ridiculous number. i do not recommend putting points into cha.

missed notes are like spell fizzles, except not nearly as detrimental. fizzles for other classes have a mana cost to them which makes them worse than missed notes. missed notes also happen at the start of a song, so it's not like you're waiting x seconds and have a huge amount of lost song upkeep time due to missing notes. it's something you generally notice immediately and can rectify right away, making missed notes more of a nuisance than anything else. dex increases rate of weapon proc which is amazing, particularly when you have your epic and other raid weapons with top-tier procs on them. but similar to cha, bard gear always seems to have a ton of dex on it. dex might be a worthwhile place to put ponts into with raid gear in mind. one of the best songs we got in luclin was the dex song, and it sucks we'll never get it here lol.

we get 25 points at character creation, and at 60 each point of stamina gives 4hp. that's 100hp, not 80. this is on par with an amazing piece of raid gear. and if you are gearing to prioritize resists over hp, you'll have like ~1.4k hp with like 1-3 good raid items. that's what i remember running around with anyway, with my resist jewelry and epic back in velious on live. 100hp is a decent chunk of your total hp. i absolutely recommend putting all points here, even over dex. because as we all know, sta gear is never an easy find- unlike dex and cha.

so i think you should put the points into sta.

[Crede]

Personally I'd go STA. A little extra dex/cha isn't a huge deal and I recommend dex/cha on a lot of classes. On my bard survivability was the biggest thing, never felt like I had enough HP since as long as you can survive your utility kinda takes over from there.

[Ripqozko]

Personally I'd go STA. A little extra dex/cha isn't a huge deal and I recommend dex/cha on a lot of classes. On my bard survivability was the biggest thing, never felt like I had enough HP since as long as you can survive your utility kinda takes over from there.

Exactly , that’s why said resists>hp>rest. All that matters is surviving

[Saisu]

Adding a *much* more casual voice. The only stat I’ve been frustrated with while leveling is Strength. Wood Elves start out with a measly 70 STR, which after some plate armor and some coin loot, you’ll quickly hit encumbrance which is a drag.

Yes Selo’s is still fast, yes you have spells that can raise STR, etc - but it sucks when even with weight reduction bags you’re always teetering on the edge of being slow.

Obviously if you have actual good gear (I do not, mostly self-looted stuff), or play in groups where someone can toss you a long lasting strength buff, it’s not so much a problem. But honestly it’s the only stat that I saw a concrete quality of life difference in.

[Encroaching Death]

Personally I'd go STA.

How much benefit does a Bard get from STA though?

10 points at creation = 10 HP at level 60?

[Crede]

How much benefit does a Bard get from STA though?

10 points at creation = 10 HP at level 60?

Read above - someone already said it. 25 STA at creation is 100 HP at 60. That's not insignificant for a class that basically just needs to survive since their charms/dots/aoes do all of the work.

[seconds]

Charisma is the best choice in my opinion. Lowering the chance of having a critical resist when you are trying to lull non trivial things when you are under duress is going to be more beneficial than dex/sta/str. Sure there are times where you can swap out for a bunch of cha gear and play cha song to max but more often than not, you are not afforded this time.

If you play your bard at a serious clip, missed notes and to a lesser extent the cast bar bug is annoying but you will recover from them so quickly, its not a noticeable part of your gameplay.

[rajax]

Str for additional max carry weight would be my choice for a first ungeared character. It’s by far the biggest benefit you can give yourself with those starting points. Plate armor, weapons, instruments, bags and loot get Str for additional max carry weight would be my choice for a first ungeared character. It’s by far the biggest benefit you can give yourself with those starting points. Plate armor, weapons, instruments, bags and loot/coins get heavy fast.

For a character you are starting off with the benefit of weight reduction bags, stat gear, etc: like above have suggested my recommendation would be a mix of dex and cha. Higher you go most of your weapons become useful primarily for their proc effects and missed notes are a constant annoyance while leveling. Early charm breaks and lull resists are something to take into consideration, you will really start to notice the uncommon charm early breaks especially when you have to use the level 39 song at 20 mana a pulse and targets having higher magic resistance at levels 40+.

100 Hp at 60 4hp:1sta (trivial returns at low levels) does not justify sta as a starting point choice in my opinion. Ultimately though, for bards those 25 points do not have a great deal of impact on your experience.

[Ennewi]

If only starting points could be placed into resists, or ac/atk.

[Ghost of Starman]

Enough str to not be encumbered and Resists / HP/ AC are the only things that matter to a bard, you don't have a long duration charm so stacking CHA doesn't do much, If you need CHA it's easy to use CHA song and maybe toss on a piece of gear.

Throw all points into STA, it's the only thing that matters in the long run.

[Selene]

I just find it so unlikely that my bard's ability to solo or group at the higher levels will really be impacted in any noticeable way with the last 100 hp. How often would I be in a situation where I was down to the last 100 hp or less, when the mobs are hitting 100+ anyway? (I don't plan on swarm kiting at all, just charming for solo and CC for groups)

I feel like usually when we play any toon, adjustments are made real-time during combat in most cases so that we aren't in a situation where everything hangs by a thread, i.e. the last 100 hp.

Since i'll be in dungeons a lot or charming a lot, I thought charisma > stamina. I won't be raiding super seriously with this toon.

Seems like dex isn't worth dumping the 25 points though --- and the more i think about it, i don't think +25 dex is gonna have a huge impact on procs anyway

[Crawdad]

I just find it so unlikely that my bard's ability to solo or group at the higher levels will really be impacted in any noticeable way with the last 100 hp.

You'll notice barely surviving with ~100hp far more often than you will notice having slightly more Cha/Dex. Goodly race stats means you're going to have the hardest time maxing your Stam/HP; Cha/Dex are not a problem or really noticeable once you get >100 IMO. At the end of the day its that bard starting stats are already hedged towards Dex/Cha, Stam has Meh returns, but you don't need any other stats. I can tell you as a Woodelf bard at 60 that went all Dex/Cha, I wished I had gone Stam just to eke out surviving a few AoEs, or a little more wiggle room to CC and regen up.

Str seems weirdly pointless but I guess fresh on the box and planning to be super casual sure. Between cheap gear and Selos+All the songs that add Str, I don't know how its really a problem for people.

[Ripqozko]

I just find it so unlikely that my bard's ability to solo or group at the higher levels will really be impacted in any noticeable way with the last 100 hp. How often would I be in a situation where I was down to the last 100 hp or less, when the mobs are hitting 100+ anyway? (I don't plan on swarm kiting at all, just charming for solo and CC for groups)

I feel like usually when we play any toon, adjustments are made real-time during combat in most cases so that we aren't in a situation where everything hangs by a thread, i.e. the last 100 hp.

Since i'll be in dungeons a lot or charming a lot, I thought charisma > stamina. I won't be raiding super seriously with this toon.

Seems like dex isn't worth dumping the 25 points though --- and the more i think about it, i don't think +25 dex is gonna have a huge impact on procs anyway

People stare at walls 35 hours a week for 10hp, 100 ain't bad. Basically nothing else matters anyways, can't put in resi so

[pink grapefruit]

I just find it so unlikely that my bard's ability to solo or group at the higher levels will really be impacted in any noticeable way with the last 100 hp. How often would I be in a situation where I was down to the last 100 hp or less, when the mobs are hitting 100+ anyway? (I don't plan on swarm kiting at all, just charming for solo and CC for groups)

I feel like usually when we play any toon, adjustments are made real-time during combat in most cases so that we aren't in a situation where everything hangs by a thread, i.e. the last 100 hp.

Since i'll be in dungeons a lot or charming a lot, I thought charisma > stamina. I won't be raiding super seriously with this toon.

Seems like dex isn't worth dumping the 25 points though --- and the more i think about it, i don't think +25 dex is gonna have a huge impact on procs anyway

it's all basically w/e. it seems like you really want to put the points in cha so just do that. then whenever lulls work and charm lasts as long as you feel it should you can feel vindicated lol.

i'm from a pvp server where the last 100hp often really did matter, and i had to sacrifice hp gear for resists even while leveling. cha and dex are both far from useless.

[Toxigen]

if first char / untwinked, STR just for carrying stuff

[Randarn]

hi.

i mained a bard on live, and remember all the fun math that was posted on the concert hall forum back in the day. they wanted to figure out how cha worked and it was a mystery for a long time. it was discovered that cha has no effect on mez.

cha decreases chance of critical resist on lull, and increases average charm duration. it was also thought that some combination of dex and cha together determined how often missed notes would occur. dex decreases rate of missed notes and determines rate of weapon proc ofc.

now, my argument: charm duration is not unimportant, but remember that no amount of cha will push this duration beyond the 18 second maximum. bard gear also has a ton of cha on it, and it's not difficult to raise this stat up to a decent level even with normal midlevel gear on. critical lull resist is much more important, but again keep in mind that there is already a lot of cha on bard gear to begin with. at level 59 you get a song that will increase cha like that other poster said, and if you get epic that 1.8 singing mod will increase 45 to some ridiculous number. i do not recommend putting points into cha.

missed notes are like spell fizzles, except not nearly as detrimental. fizzles for other classes have a mana cost to them which makes them worse than missed notes. missed notes also happen at the start of a song, so it's not like you're waiting x seconds and have a huge amount of lost song upkeep time due to missing notes. it's something you generally notice immediately and can rectify right away, making missed notes more of a nuisance than anything else. dex increases rate of weapon proc which is amazing, particularly when you have your epic and other raid weapons with top-tier procs on them. but similar to cha, bard gear always seems to have a ton of dex on it. dex might be a worthwhile place to put ponts into with raid gear in mind. one of the best songs we got in luclin was the dex song, and it sucks we'll never get it here lol.

we get 25 points at character creation, and at 60 each point of stamina gives 4hp. that's 100hp, not 80. this is on par with an amazing piece of raid gear. and if you are gearing to prioritize resists over hp, you'll have like ~1.4k hp with like 1-3 good raid items. that's what i remember running around with anyway, with my resist jewelry and epic back in velious on live. 100hp is a decent chunk of your total hp. i absolutely recommend putting all points here, even over dex. because as we all know, sta gear is never an easy find- unlike dex and cha.

so i think you should put the points into sta.

I just wanted to thank you for the comment. And here I was thinking as the alternative stat to put it all in agility and see what that really did.. but it seems like the answer is stamina.. So i will start stamina . Thanks again
~Trys

[pink grapefruit]

I just wanted to thank you for the comment. And here I was thinking as the alternative stat to put it all in agility and see what that really did.. but it seems like the answer is stamina.. So i will start stamina . Thanks again
~Trys

yw <3

bard is the best class in this game and i hope you have fun with it!!

agility helps with ac or something idk exactly. no one ever takes agility seriously in this game so long as you’re not below 75.

[Dolvar]

I’m having a hard time reading to the end due to the overwhelming amount of misinformation for advice.

People say go all STR, all DEX, STA, CHA….

All strength is ridiculous. However, it’s not the worst decision.

STA…. 100HP at 60…. During swarming, you may as well have 1 HP. You get hit you’re going to die. So you should prioritize how you are going to keep yourself from dying in the first place. (If you’re grouping or raiding and you’re getting hit so much that you’re dying, you need to rethink your class selection, your group choice, how you’re playing the role, etc because more often than not, you need more of something else and STA wasn’t it!)

You have DEX and CHA. These 2 stats are going to be the core of a bard, depending on what role you want to play in the game.

If you want to swarm and solo only, go DEX. You’re going to die more times from a string of missed notes than you will for not having 100 hp or 25 stength. CHA also doesn’t matter while solo.

If you want to never solo or swarm, always in a group ans then raid? You can just dump everything in CHA so you can help yourself from lower chance from critical resists on lull. But at the end of the day, once again, missed notes are the source of your problem in most situations.

Moral of the story… do what you want. If you’re wanting to min/max then dump everything into DEX as it is the only stat that is relevant across the board.

[wuanahto]

Stamina for all classes if you want to raid
everything else it literally does not matter. if you are casual and will burnout/reroll in your 40s/50s/another game then just whatever.

On green I put my starting points in my druid into wisdom. that 250~ mana at 57 isnt even a group port.
on blue i 255'd a half elf druid with 75 starting wis in raid gear.

stamina, simple.

[BenDerisgreat]

Considering the number of times I've salvaged a trainout or survived with 1% HP, I say STA all the way. My first (main) bard is a mix of DEX and STR (LOL). Second bard is CHA all the way (Also LOL). I'll get it right on my third bard and will go STA all the way. live and learn!

[Loadsamoney]

For a Half Elf my pick would be 5 STA, 5 DEX, 15 CHA.

Gives you an even 100 in DEX and CHA, with the average 75 in STA.

[Ripqozko]

For a Half Elf my pick would be 5 STA, 5 DEX, 15 CHA.

Gives you an even 100 in DEX and CHA, with the average 75 in STA.

Nah the answer is still sta

[Loadsamoney]

Nah the answer is still sta

For min/max yeah, probably. But I'd prefer not to fizzle or worry about charms breaking early on.

Kinda similar to Ogre Warrior, Sta should be the min/max here too but everyone seems to go Dex.

[Ripqozko]

For min/max yeah, probably. But I'd prefer not to fizzle or worry about charms breaking early on.

Kinda similar to Ogre Warrior, Sta should be the min/max here too but everyone seems to go Dex.

Cause ogre has an asston of sta. Bit different situation, no sta.wouldnt be the choice there

[Vivitron]

Cause ogre has an asston of sta. Bit different situation, no sta.wouldnt be the choice there

Yeah I was just playing around with magelo for a cha bard. 255 unbuffed sta is possible with full BiS if you're mindful that the 100hp pieces you pick also have good sta, but it's pretty insane to get there. 205 seems plausible though.

[Videri]

Bard charms almost never break early. And as you all know, max duration is 18 seconds.

Charisma usually doesn't come into play when you're lulling blue or green mobs (because the game checks level and MR to determine resist; only if resist does it check charisma to determine whether it's a critical resist). Charisma is also easy to gear for (and you can keep a Crude Stein and other pieces in your bag for certain situations).

And like others have said, if you miss a note, you just push the song button again.

So yeah, the bard toolkit doesn't really depend on any stats, so I think you might as well just get some HP out of the deal.

[Ghost of Starman]

Charisma is also easy to gear for (and you can keep a Crude Stein and other pieces in your bag for certain situations).


Don't forget you get a CHA song too if you're planning on doing some dangerous lulling, base is +45 cha.