Ranger Epic - It feels like a downgrade if I get my Epic

[Encroaching Death]

Getting the Ranger epic seems like downgrading.

Sure, Swiftwind is good for the 40% worn haste.

But Earthcaller? I already have a Swarmcaller.

And a Wurmslayer outdamages both lol

What is this? Some sort of con job??

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Getting the Ranger epic seems like downgrading.

Sure, Swiftwind is good for the 40% worn haste.

But Earthcaller? I already have a Swarmcaller.

And a Wurmslayer outdamages both lol

What is this? Some sort of con job??

With main hand damage bonus, Earthcaller is better than Wurmslayer. At level 60 Earthcaller becomes a 25/24 weapon, and Wurmslayer is a 36/40.

Think of Earthcaller like merging a Blade of Carnage with Swarmcaller. You get a better ratio weapon with the same kind of slow, so you have better DPS per kill since you don't have to swap it out.

[Encroaching Death]

But how? Because of the dot proc?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

But how? Because of the dot proc?

Main hand damage bonus adds to the damage of the weapon. At level 1 Earthcaller is a 14 damage 24 delay weapon. At level 60 you add 11 to the weapon damage under the hood. It becomes a 25 damage 24 delay weapon.

Wurmslayer would only be a 36/40.

[Encroaching Death]

So lower delay weapons benefit more from that bonus

[Crede]

I got it, and am happy with it for the stats/slow proc. Swapping in 2 weapons for Swarmcaller is annoying.

If you can get the ToV 2h though, I would just skip the epic entirely for an easy swap with Swarmcaller.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So lower delay weapons benefit more from that bonus

Exactly. Think of Earthcaller like merging a Blade of Carnage with Swarmcaller. You get a better ratio weapon with the same kind of slow, so you have better DPS per kill since you don't have to swap it out.

[Crede]

So lower delay weapons benefit more from that bonus

Yah.. Swiftblade of zek makes for a nice swap with Earthcaller after it procs due to the low delay/stats.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yah.. Swiftblade of zek makes for a nice swap with Earthcaller after it procs due to the low delay/stats.

Yeah Swift Blade of Zek is great if you can get it.

[Ripqozko]

Earthcaller is pretty niche tho I rarely use it or used it while leveling, if you can afford a earthcaller just get a sboz for 1/5th the cost. Swiftwind is cheap asf and never replaced except good 2h build like cek sword. The bonus attack is worth more then the haste component.

Edit the slow component of earthcaller is nice but unless ya do specific low man with no shm or enc , you will lose dps to sboz or better mainhand.

[Jimjam]

I got it, and am happy with it for the stats/slow proc. Swapping in 2 weapons for Swarmcaller is annoying.

If you can get the ToV 2h though, I would just skip the epic entirely for an easy swap with Swarmcaller.

Which tov 2hander is being referenced here?

[Ripqozko]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Meljeldin,_Bane_of_Giants

It’s what I use with hotswap to primal. Beats kriezen flame on 90% of targets not named kt and aow

[Snaggles]

Yea I didn’t level with my EC. I expect with it that would have been pretty fun.

I’ve said this before but swapping between slow setups is less of a dps loss for SW than it is for 2h. You are adding utility to a utility class with it. Absolutely nothing wrong with a swarmcaller though. I considered getting another today after just getting a Cek 2h.

2h Slow setup:
DW tash stick(s) (very low dps, not always needed)
Swap to Swarmcaller (low dps, two clicks)
Swap to dps weapon (one click)

DW slow setup:
DW or just primary tash stick (very low or just low dps)
Switch main to EC for slow (medium dps)
Switch main to DPS (one click)
Or…switch to BFG whenever and disc (HIGH dps)

If you are just one-clicking the DW gives more flexibility. If you are quick unlike me it’s not as horrid of a loss, just annoying.

DW setups also give some decent stats for pulling or tanking. Both epics is almost 200hps I recall. Swarm or most 2h’s are 0-50’ish.

[Jimjam]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Meljeldin,_Bane_of_Giants

It’s what I use with hotswap to primal. Beats kriezen flame on 90% of targets not named kt and aow

Oh that is pretty tasty, yeah! What is an easily attainable haste for ranger when not using offhand/swiftwind?

[Snaggles]

Oh that is pretty tasty, yeah! What is an easily attainable haste for ranger when not using offhand/swiftwind?

Modern raids maybe Yeli neck, Zlex or Dagarn belt, Yeli gaunts.

You can cap with a spiked seahorse and shiss. Leaving 25attack off the table though. The 2h is pretty good. I was using SCHW’s to finish up the raid and it was keeping up on with normal geared people at 88% haste.

[Encroaching Death]

If you can get the ToV 2h though, I would just skip the epic entirely for an easy swap with Swarmcaller.

Meljeldin, Bane of Giants?

That dropped for the guild last night.

Maybe in 5 years I could get it. If I played everyday.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Oh that is pretty tasty, yeah! What is an easily attainable haste for ranger when not using offhand/swiftwind?

If you have access to the sky cloak then CoF or Seahorse Belt will work fine. You will already be at 84% haste with that setup, and after 34% you only get half of the benefit of additional haste. The first 34% reduces the delay by half of the possible reduction, and the other 66% reduces the other half. For example, a weapon with 40 delay is reduced to 30 delay with 34% haste. 100% haste reduces the delay to 20.

[Encroaching Death]

Or…switch to BFG whenever and disc (HIGH dps)


Good info thanks.

Sub-question: BFG sounds fun. I'm concerned they may not be planks left on the server.

How must-have is a BFG for a Ranger?

[Ripqozko]

It's only way to achieve rogue dps, if that is your goal. Ranger still has utility without, but part of their job is killing in raids.

[Encroaching Death]

Damn...well now I'm gonna need a Seaworthy Planking MQ...how much those cost? 200k?

[Snaggles]

Good info thanks.

Sub-question: BFG sounds fun. I'm concerned they may not be planks left on the server.

How must-have is a BFG for a Ranger?

If they merge green more will be available. There are a few now on blue and they are like 120-150k I think. I got mine for 60k a couple years ago.

It’s really just more utility. As a normal weapon if you keep making and feeding it Tolan arrows it performs like a 11/18-12/18 seemingly if stuff isn’t rooted or fleeing. You get double damage and crits. On disc it’s basically double-damage for 2 mins (10-12k or so). A long fight much of that advantage disappears.

We did a Faydedar the other say. It was another quick fight (1.5mins). With shiss, wolf form, and 8dmg arrows I did 107dps. A top tier rogue did 157 lol. But I expect I still did about twice what the average ranger would have. Or 30% more than a ToV geared one.

It’s really just more fun. And they don’t drop so I’d rather spend the plat on that MQ than a Earthcaller. You will definitely get one of those if you keep at it! It’s a time locked server.

[Ripqozko]

About 100

Edit if ya mostly do rooted dragons. Bfg won't matter cause rooted mobs bugged ts.

/GU Aaryonar in 497s, 425k @855 | Shoeshineboy 31465@(66 in 472s) | Phillip 24982@(53 in 470s) | Scian 24574@(51 in 473s) | Ripqozko 21916@(50 in 435s) | Lisson 21106@(47 in 444s) | Pulz 20502@(44 in 461s) | Gatruk 20476@(46 in 436s) | Enviee 19119@(43 in 441s) | Cattiebree 18603@(42 in 436s) | Simorgh 16999@(36 in 461s) | Satsugai 16042@(37 in 426s) | Kushnada 15302@(32 in 475s) | Choamsky 15151@(38 in 392s) | Joraah 14458@(31 in 465s) | Zogaguk 13400@(30 in 440s)

Can still do lot with 2h tho, that's 2h parse

[Philistine]

So lower delay weapons benefit more from that bonus

Exactly. I think the formula a lot of folks use to compare 1hand Primary weapons at 60 something like this: (weapon damage x2 +damage bonus of 11)/weapon delay

So wurmslayer would be: (25x2+11)/40 = 1.525
And Earthcaller would be: (14*2+11)/24 = 1.625

Fun fact though! Guard Captain's Mallet: (11*2+11)/20 = 1.65. Not a had budget option to pair with Swiftwind imho!

[Encroaching Death]

I was basing my DPS opinions of weapons from the Wiki's damage/delay sorting...

Turns out that doesn't tell the whole story.

So ideally, I would want to mainhand SBOZ and offhand Swiftwind or something.

I probably won't use Slow unless soloing or small man (without a slower).

In those niche occasions, I can just pull out the Swarmcaller until it procs.

Earthcaller MQ is much costlier than the Swiftwind MQ, huh?

[Ripqozko]

I was basing my DPS opinions of weapons from the Wiki's damage/delay sorting...

Turns out that doesn't tell the whole story.

So ideally, I would want to mainhand SBOZ and offhand Swiftwind or something.

I probably won't use Slow unless soloing or small man (without a slower).

In those niche occasions, I can just pull out the Swarmcaller until it procs.

Earthcaller MQ is much costlier than the Swiftwind MQ, huh?

200k vs 20k

[Encroaching Death]

200k vs 20k

Damn, I didn't realize the Earthcaller MQ was THAT much...sheesh..

[Philistine]

That's understandable! I used to do the same until someone filled me in :) Yeah SBoZ is a great mainhand to pair with Swiftwind if you have the plat. There are also a good number of ntov 1handers should you get into raiding.

Earthcaller is definitely a niche use sort of thing, I agree. It IS cool to be able to pull out in low-man and "omg everyone who can slow try to slow mob X" situations. A ranger slowed Cekenar for us a couple of weeks back, and it was very helpful.

And yes, unfortunately Earthcaller MQ is very pricey (at least it seems that way to me as someone who is always broke :p). That said, lots of guilds kill hate minis pretty regularly, and I believe most have tracker bots you can log into to help spot/phone them, so getting the SEOC as a drop is a doable, if frustrating, thing with many guilds.

[Jimjam]

Earthcaller MQ is Innoruuk’s heart. Don’t get a heart of a god cheap!

Also for some reason his minions are carrying around his heart instead of dropping it himself now. It is much rarer after being moved to the minis despite the change being made to remove roadblocks.

[Danth]

Main hand damage bonus adds to the damage of the weapon. At level 1 Earthcaller is a 14 damage 24 delay weapon. At level 60 you add 11 to the weapon damage under the hood. It becomes a 25 damage 24 delay weapon.

Wurmslayer would only be a 36/40.

This is not my understanding of damage bonus. I understand damage bonus as adding to the damage dealt, effectively increasing the player's minimum hit. So a 14/25 remains a 14/25, but at 60 the bonus adds a flat 11 more onto every swing the player makes. Damage bonus for 1H is a fixed value, so it inherently favors fast weapons, and it is most effective against high AC enemies where normal hits tend to skew low. As such the player should only see hits for 1 with kick or the off-hand weapon. Looking at it another way, Wurmslayer gets a bit under two-thirds the benefit from the damage bonus as Earthcaller does on account of Wurmslayer's slow delay.

2H damage bonus scales with weapon delay.

[Ripqozko]

Cecily has a great thread about all this , the formula is 2x dmg +11 / delay for primary

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This is not my understanding of damage bonus. I understand damage bonus as adding to the damage dealt, effectively increasing the player's minimum hit. So a 14/25 remains a 14/25, but at 60 the bonus adds a flat 11 more onto every swing the player makes. Damage bonus for 1H is a fixed value, so it inherently favors fast weapons, and it is most effective against high AC enemies where normal hits tend to skew low. As such the player should only see hits for 1 with kick or the off-hand weapon. Looking at it another way, Wurmslayer gets a bit under two-thirds the benefit from the damage bonus as Earthcaller does on account of Wurmslayer's slow delay.

2H damage bonus scales with weapon delay.

I will admit that I am still a little fuzzy on the exact maths for damage bonus. I got my current information from this post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3415391&postcount=4

Based on my own data, when my Monk went from level 39-40, his max damage increased from 147 to 160 using Imbued Fighters Staff (38/40). This is when the damage bonus goes from 4-5.

I don't believe the damage bonus simply adds a flat value onto the final number. That wouldn't account for the full 13 damage increase. I didn't change my STR significantly between that level range either, nor was I STR buffed. This is a 2h weapon, and 40 is a big level, so I am not sure if there are other factors to be considered.

[Ripqozko]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246585&highlight=ranger+weapon

Cecily broke down lot of weapons and how long time ago

Edit this is based at 60 with cap stats , no one cares what you use at 40, outlier is cek sword parses better in normal ac situations compared to kriezen flame for me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I did a bit of maths based on my max hit and the EQEMU code. Note this is with an Imbued Fighters Staff:

Level 31
======
Base Damge = (38 Weapon Damage + 2 Damage Bonus) X ((165 Offense + 135 STR + 67 STR from Buff) / 100) = 146 rounded down.
2H Damage Bonus = 2 + ((31 level - 25) / 3) + ((40 delay - 40) / 3) = 4 rounded down.
Level Bonus = ((31 level - 30) / 5) + 1) = 1 rounded down.

Max Damage possible = 151.

Max Damage in my logs = 147.

Level 40
======
Base Damge = (38 Weapon Damage + 5 Damage Bonus) X ((210 Offense + 139 STR) / 100) = 150 rounded down.
2H Damage Bonus = 2 + ((40 level - 25) / 3) + ((40 delay - 40) / 3) = 7 rounded down.
Level Bonus = ((40 level - 30) / 5) + 1) = 3 rounded down.

Max Damage possible = 160.

Max Damage in my logs = 160.

This seems to be the correct formula, as it matches my current numbers.

[Keebz]

I will say if you face tank, the slower speed/higher dmg of the Wurmslayer is good for attrition. It is very noticeable swapping between Wurmslayer and something like Seb Dirk, for example.

For just DPS against a raid mob though, faster main hand is generally better. One confounding factor, however, is at 15 weapon dmg, the min hit becomes 2 instead of 1, so a >= 15 dmg weapon gets an extra edge over a <= 14 dmg weapon.

[Snaggles]

Lucy's has the updated melee table. The dmg bonus is accurate by the weapons I've checked using crit/melee subtraction.

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1

Main hand: 2xdmg + dmg bonus / Delay
Offhand: 2xdmg/ Delay

You should probably always use a factor of less than 100% for the offhand as it's not a 1/1 swing ratio to the MH (even with capped DW skill). I usually do like 80% just because.

In general 2h with a far better ratio would scale ahead of DW from like 30 to 50 unless you had amazing 1h's. 2h has always been competitive due to the available ratios but now with the scaling bonus it's just next-level.

Not to say DW isnt solid, or cant be. You're just going to work very hard to keep up. Any goofball who can loot a 1.15 ratio 2h out of ToV can keep up with very good DW setups. Those 2h's tend to be much cheaper dkp too. Outside raiding I'm not even sure a near 1/1 ratio weapon parses that badly compared to say a SboZ and Swiftwind at 60, if you have really good haste.

For just DPS against a raid mob though, faster main hand is generally better. One confounding factor, however, is at 15 weapon dmg, the min hit becomes 2 instead of 1, so a >= 15 dmg weapon gets an extra edge over a <= 14 dmg weapon.

Yea there are some odd weapons like the Blam Stick which calculate out only slightly worse on low AC stuff to a SBOZ. That quick math though is pretty good way to compare two mainhands. Compared to parsing for like 20 mins.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nevermind, Danth is correct for 1h weapons at least, the main hand damage bonus looks like it is just getting added on at the end as a flat number.

My 58 Shadowknight is hitting for 132 max with https://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_the_Rigtorgn . He has 226 STR and 220 Offense. He also has 2 Aura of Battle items + Grim Aura. So 226 + 220 + Attack bonuses? ~40 = 4.86 x 25 Weapon Damage + 11 = 132 rounded down.

[Ripqozko]

Nevermind, Danth is correct for 1h weapons at least, the main hand damage bonus looks like it is just getting added on at the end as a flat number.

My 58 Shadowknight is hitting for 132 max with https://wiki.project1999.com/Eye_of_the_Rigtorgn . He has 226 STR and 220 Offense. He also has 2 Aura of Battle items + Grim Aura. So 226 + 220 + Attack bonuses? ~40 = 4.86 x 25 Weapon Damage + 11 = 132 rounded down.

Imagine us posting the formula like 8 times already and it took you this long, max hit doesn’t matter as much as overall dps, that’s why we use the formula for mainhand to find what to go with swiftwind.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Imagine us posting the formula like 8 times already and it took you this long, max hit doesn’t matter as much as overall dps, that’s why we use the formula for mainhand to find what to go with swiftwind.

There's no harm in testing stuff out. You really have nothing better to do than follow other people around and post lol. I feel sad for you.

[Ripqozko]

There's no harm in testing stuff out. You really have nothing better to do than follow other people around and post lol. I feel sad for you.

951

[Snaggles]

The formula is pretty solid. it mainly helps with deciding what to use and what to bid on when raiding. Comparing 1h to 2h is a bit iffy but you can kind of squint and get there.

Rangers it’s a bit confusing because access to 40% attack/25attack offhand is extremely easy. Going 2h is a bit weird and there are only two good ones outside Sleepers. If you can get one though it’s most likely better or on par with any BiS DW combination. There are some mobs where performance varies, or the stats or needed, or random chance puts one setup ahead of the other. But just plunk math on raid targets a cek or shovel is hard to beat reliably. Casting between swings, no damage shield or enrage woes is very nice.

Basically:
Get Swiftwind.
Hope to get a SEOC someday for nerd cred/utility/solo if not 60
Aim to get a SBOZ
Aim to upgrade to a solid ToV primary OR 2h.
Collect other stuff as people boggle to figure out why you are investing so much effort into a ranger.

[Encroaching Death]

Collect other stuff as people boggle to figure out why you are investing so much effort into a ranger.

It's like putting a beefy car engine into an old Geo Metro.

You wanna see what will happen.

[Ripqozko]

The formula is pretty solid. it mainly helps with deciding what to use and what to bid on when raiding. Comparing 1h to 2h is a bit iffy but you can kind of squint and get there.

Rangers it’s a bit confusing because access to 40% attack/25attack offhand is extremely easy. Going 2h is a bit weird and there are only two good ones outside Sleepers. If you can get one though it’s most likely better or on par with any BiS DW combination. There are some mobs where performance varies, or the stats or needed, or random chance puts one setup ahead of the other. But just plunk math on raid targets a cek or shovel is hard to beat reliably. Casting between swings, no damage shield or enrage woes is very nice.

Basically:
Get Swiftwind.
Hope to get a SEOC someday for nerd cred/utility/solo if not 60
Aim to get a SBOZ
Aim to upgrade to a solid ToV primary OR 2h.
Collect other stuff as people boggle to figure out why you are investing so much effort into a ranger.

That's fair lol, but we do parse above a lot of Monks and around rogues even non disc with good weapon setup and as much as rogue with disc. Still get all the utility and your progress point is on point its exactly how I went, sboz->nev claw->doze dagger-> kriezen flame, I use cek mostly now.

[Jimjam]

The formula is pretty solid. it mainly helps with deciding what to use and what to bid on when raiding. Comparing 1h to 2h is a bit iffy but you can kind of squint and get there.

Rangers it’s a bit confusing because access to 40% attack/25attack offhand is extremely easy. Going 2h is a bit weird and there are only two good ones outside Sleepers. If you can get one though it’s most likely better or on par with any BiS DW combination. There are some mobs where performance varies, or the stats or needed, or random chance puts one setup ahead of the other. But just plunk math on raid targets a cek or shovel is hard to beat reliably. Casting between swings, no damage shield or enrage woes is very nice.

Basically:
Get Swiftwind.
Hope to get a SEOC someday for nerd cred/utility/solo if not 60
Aim to get a SBOZ
Aim to upgrade to a solid ToV primary OR 2h.
Collect other stuff as people boggle to figure out why you are investing so much effort into a ranger.

Rangers are fun to gear!

You mention how 2hand is complicated by swiftwind. Rangers have a nice line of buff procs. Can’t these fire on offhand swings too? Further reason to look awesome with the lightning rod out.

[Encroaching Death]

What's a SEOC? I'm drawing a blank.

Two hander from somewhere?

[Ripqozko]

The gem for earthcaller

[Encroaching Death]

ah right

[Jimjam]

It is Innoruuk’s shattered heart.

[Encroaching Death]

It is Innoruuk’s shattered heart.

Did he break up with Fironia Vie?

[Snaggles]

That's fair lol, but we do parse above a lot of Monks and around rogues even non disc with good weapon setup and as much as rogue with disc. Still get all the utility and your progress point is on point its exactly how I went, sboz->nev claw->doze dagger-> kriezen flame, I use cek mostly now.

Yea my Silver Whip of Rage/Claw of Lighting is bagged now for the most part. Unless BFG'in for part of the fight. The Cek 2h holds up really nice. I know short fights but 113 npcs in posky with shiss I was #2 for total melee dmg. Not bad for a tryhard with a chip on his shoulder lol.

Rangers are fun to gear!

You mention how 2hand is complicated by swiftwind. Rangers have a nice line of buff procs. Can’t these fire on offhand swings too? Further reason to look awesome with the lightning rod out.


I mainly just meant if you get 40% haste and attack for such an easy quest it makes it difficult to compare other 2h's. There are a few better ones which are obvious choices for raiders but not like someone is likely to use their trusty Woodsman. Even if it's "better" at say lvl 46 who's gonna be boring when you have a lightning sword to play with? :)

Not sure the proc mechanics of call of sky/fire but they go off like all self-proc spells quite a bit higher than weapons. Probably 3x at least. They are very underrated for stopping casters.

[Toxigen]

The ballin on a budget Ranger is SBoZ + Swiftwind and a Swarmcaller at the ready.

[Crede]

The ballin on a budget Ranger is SBoZ + Swiftwind and a Swarmcaller at the ready.

If building a solo ranger and you can't afford earthcaller, I'd suggest just getting a woodmans staff for easy swarmcaller swaps, not to mention less ripostes.

[Encroaching Death]

If building a solo ranger and you can't afford earthcaller, I'd suggest just getting a woodmans staff for easy swarmcaller swaps, not to mention less ripostes.

That's what I'm using right now.

Fungi Tunic + Seahorse Haste Belt + Woodsman Staff + Swarmcaller.

When I get Swiftwind, I'll probably pair it with a Skyfury Scimitar until I get an SBoZ/Earthcaller.

[YendorLootmonkey]

But just plunk math on raid targets a cek or shovel is hard to beat reliably. Casting between swings, no damage shield or enrage woes is very nice.

I honestly don't use epics much on raids anymore after picking up the shovel, for all the reasons Snaggles just mentioned:

/say Lord Kreizenn in 219s, 283k @1294 | Twixel 21566@98 | Gotyour 19218@88 | Valijk 18714@85 | City 17399@79 | Myhszarny 14019@64 | Guhtz 13509@62 | Trakek 12866@59 | Damages 12786@58 | Cirus 11655@53 | Yendor 11365@52

Epics were parsing around 40-45 DPS plus I had to be careful and use Jolt to counter Earthcaller resists on raid targets. Prior to the shovel, I would usually swap out Earthcaller for an Exquisite Velium Warsword on raids.

I just need better backup haste than a RBB.

[Crede]

That's what I'm using right now.

Fungi Tunic + Seahorse Haste Belt + Woodsman Staff + Swarmcaller.

When I get Swiftwind, I'll probably pair it with a Skyfury Scimitar until I get an SBoZ/Earthcaller.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fayguard_Parrying_Dagger

I believe this dagger was BiS in kunark for rangers. Fairly easy to loot if you have an enc/necro or find someone killing in HS north. Just watch out for that aoe proc depending on where you're fighting!

I'd pass on the scimitar, it's pretty slow for primary.

[Encroaching Death]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fayguard_Parrying_Dagger

I believe this dagger was BiS in kunark for rangers. Fairly easy to loot if you have an enc/necro or find someone killing in HS north. Just watch out for that aoe proc depending on where you're fighting!

I'd pass on the scimitar, it's pretty slow for primary.

I like this idea, but I hate worrying about an AOE proc...

I'd rather do something else.

[Snaggles]

The fashion winner is a crafted velium warsword. 10/18 and looks like a primal 1hs. I think they run like 5-6k.

Ratio wise at 60 it’s about 4% better than the Earthcaller. Granted the effect is what people want, and the sparkles, but the crafted is a good look.

[Encroaching Death]

The fashion winner is a crafted velium warsword. 10/18 and looks like a primal 1hs. I think they run like 5-6k.

Ratio wise at 60 it’s about 4% better than the Earthcaller. Granted the effect is what people want, and the sparkles, but the crafted is a good look.

Alright now we're talking. This sounds like a good option

[jgold16]

Alright now we're talking. This sounds like a good option

Or, crescent blades of luclin. Looks like knuckle dusters. 10/18 with self AC proc. Just picked one up for my 51 ranger. My plan is to use as mainhand until swiftblade of zek. Currently, have exquisite velium warsword in offhand. Really nice looking and great stats, but swiftwind will replace it.

[Encroaching Death]

Or, crescent blades of luclin. Looks like knuckle dusters. 10/18 with self AC proc. Just picked one up for my 51 ranger. My plan is to use as mainhand until swiftblade of zek. Currently, have exquisite velium warsword in offhand. Really nice looking and great stats, but swiftwind will replace it.

Interesting...yeah, this is nice. I need to level my Piercing.

[Ripqozko]

Interesting...yeah, this is nice. I need to level my Piercing.

piercing def worth keeping up, its just as high as other weapon skills and theres some decent options and even late options (used priceless spear for while).

[Cen]

I've been reading some of your posts lately and was amazed you didn't know about main hand damage bonus, so I actually wanted to do a thought experiment and pretend it didn't exist, and what you would have seen as good or bad weapons, and it was actually pretty amazing. Some really high end weapons would be worthless, and some things like monk epic fists would make no sense at all to change you to 9/16, but in Velious, you can see how the weapon design for the great weapons definitely went ahead to make use of the lower damage lower delay for primary designed weapons, to capitalize on that bonus.

[Encroaching Death]

I've been reading some of your posts lately and was amazed you didn't know about main hand damage bonus, so I actually wanted to do a thought experiment and pretend it didn't exist, and what you would have seen as good or bad weapons, and it was actually pretty amazing. Some really high end weapons would be worthless, and some things like monk epic fists would make no sense at all to change you to 9/16, but in Velious, you can see how the weapon design for the great weapons definitely went ahead to make use of the lower damage lower delay for primary designed weapons, to capitalize on that bonus.

Lol yeah, I was essentially sorting weapons by damage/delay on the Wiki.

It can be deceiving because many of the top listed weapons are BiS type of stuff that drops from PoG, etc.

But yeah, I was always confused about the popularity of the high end Velium weapons, because to me, they just looked mediocre. No stats, damage/delay seemed unimpressive, etc.

I knew there were damage bonuses at 55 in some aspect, but didn't know about the main hand bonuses. I guess that's why they recommend 60 Monks to use nothing in their mainhand. That makes sense now.

And the fact that it's a flat damage bonus, faster weapons benefit more from the bonus.

Do they have these bonuses listed on the wiki? I used to look up the weapon damage cap levels on the wiki, I imagine they're in the same place.

[Crede]

I’d recommend new rangers to just go silver swiftblade > woodmans > cek 2h. I wouldn’t even get swiftwind unless you can also afford at a minimum a swiftblade of zek.

[Ripqozko]

I’d recommend new rangers to just go silver swiftblade > woodmans > cek 2h. I wouldn’t even get swiftwind unless you can also afford at a minimum a swiftblade of zek.

Pair it with some cheap hosh boots (least they use to be)

[Encroaching Death]

Pair it with some cheap hosh boots (least they use to be)

Hosh boots?

I already have a Swarmcaller and Woodsman Staff.

I want to get my Sky cloak as well.

But I'm interested in these boots you speak of.

[Ripqozko]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Grey_Suede_Boots

I use them

[Encroaching Death]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Grey_Suede_Boots

I use them

Oh those are nice.

I'm probably years away from getting those.

I currently have a Seahorse Belt (34% haste) and I could see the Sky Cloak in my near future.

[Ripqozko]

Yea was just more on the lines of crede suggestion. If ya can get trips loot you can do vp.

[Jimjam]

Hosh boots don't really fit budget ranger, cos while they may be cheap for dkp(?) they do involve acquiring a VP key, which isn't exactly cheap in terms of time to farm or pp for mq. Trak's teeth sometimes get a bit pricey for dkp depending on how meme vp keying is at the time.

[Ripqozko]

Hosh boots don't really fit budget ranger, cos while they may be cheap for dkp(?) they do involve acquiring a VP key, which isn't exactly cheap in terms of time to farm or pp for mq. Trak's teeth sometimes get a bit pricey for dkp depending on how meme vp keying is at the time.

Really? I have 6 keyed chars it was never hard for me

[Toxigen]

Hosh boots don't really fit budget ranger, cos while they may be cheap for dkp(?) they do involve acquiring a VP key, which isn't exactly cheap in terms of time to farm or pp for mq. Trak's teeth sometimes get a bit pricey for dkp depending on how meme vp keying is at the time.

sorry you dont got PS hope this helps

[Snaggles]

Lol yeah, I was essentially sorting weapons by damage/delay on the Wiki.

It can be deceiving because many of the top listed weapons are BiS type of stuff that drops from PoG, etc.

But yeah, I was always confused about the popularity of the high end Velium weapons, because to me, they just looked mediocre. No stats, damage/delay seemed unimpressive, etc.

I knew there were damage bonuses at 55 in some aspect, but didn't know about the main hand bonuses. I guess that's why they recommend 60 Monks to use nothing in their mainhand. That makes sense now.

And the fact that it's a flat damage bonus, faster weapons benefit more from the bonus.

Do they have these bonuses listed on the wiki? I used to look up the weapon damage cap levels on the wiki, I imagine they're in the same place.


This is the closest we have and seems to be correct. At least the ones ive tested using archery (hit dmg - crit damage = damage bonus) on my ranger.

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1

In most cases the go-to ranger weapons are well known and priced accordingly. Ratio AND speed is a great combo. A few edge cases of speed over ratio, or ratio over speed exist but they are rare.

The exceptions to the rule that come to mind are:
Rev whip: It's ok but not great due to the ratio
Wurmslayer: Ok for a bit due to ratio but damage bonus catches up at the end
Blam Stick: A bit under a SBoZ but the ratio is much better than a Wurmslayer.
BFG: Just a weird one. Lots of compounding mechanics at play....crits, double damage on non-rooted targets, 8 dmg arrows available to use, disc etc. On its face its a 25/50...but it totally isnt.

Really though, easy and fun epic at 50. Fashionable 1h that does ok damage. Enjoy the grind! Whether you are doing 40dps on raid mobs or 60dps the fun and utility of a ranger is always high. Easily my favorite class even with the huge chip on the shoulder.

The 2000p Swarmcaller for a 50% slow is great. Only a few melees even have quality slow proc as an option and rangers have two of them.

[jgold16]

The 2000p Swarmcaller for a 50% slow is great. Only a few melees even have quality slow proc as an option and rangers have two of them.

2k Swarmcaller? As opposed to the regular Swarmcaller? What is that?

[Encroaching Death]

This is the closest we have and seems to be correct. At least the ones ive tested using archery (hit dmg - crit damage = damage bonus) on my ranger.

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1



Interesting. This makes it seem like slower delay weapons get more than 11 damage bonus at 60.

Am I reading that correctly?

The way I understand it is, at 60, a quick Jade Mace will outperform a slow Wurmslayer, even though the ratio is worse. Right? Because it should be a flat 11 damage for all weapons across the board.

[Ripqozko]

Interesting. This makes it seem like slower delay weapons get more than 11 damage bonus at 60.

Am I reading that correctly?

The way I understand it is, at 60, a quick Jade Mace will outperform a slow Wurmslayer, even though the ratio is worse. Right? Because it should be a flat 11 damage for all weapons across the board.

All 1h get 11 bonus dmg in main hand , 2h has its own based on delay

[Encroaching Death]

All 1h get 11 bonus dmg in main hand

But 11 bonus damage max, right?

[Croco]

But 11 bonus damage max, right?

for 1 handers at level 60 yes

[Snaggles]

That Lucy link has 1h dmg bonus too. It caps at 11 regardless of delay.
I recall the Jade maths out better (2x damage + dmg bonus) / Delay) in the high 50’s. At one point I carried a Wurm on the ranger for tanking and damage shields but it was a very short window.

[greatdane]

The ability to proc slows without saddling yourself with a terrible statless 29/41 weapon is pretty nice, but only relevant when you actually want to slow the mob. Playstyle determines how often one cares about this. For some people, it's never. For others, it's everyday routine.

Swiftwind, while not strictly BIS, is a "good enough" off-hand forever. It's your haste item and it's 30 ATK as well, which is quite nice. You never really have to get another off-hand or haste item, so you can spend your DKP on other shit. You can basically think of Swiftwind as also having whatever stats you got out of some other upgrade you were able to get because you didn't need to spend DKP on an off-hand or haste item.

Swiftwind is also straight BIS for archery, so when Luclin launches in 2036, it's the best off-hand for that expansion. When that day comes (and it surely will!) everyone's gonna roll a ranger and those epic MQ pieces will cost a fortune, so get it ahead of time.

[Jimjam]

Doubt swiftwind is better than earth shaker for archery.

[Ripqozko]

Doubt swiftwind is better than earth shaker for archery.

For normal archery no, for disc bfg yes.

[Snaggles]

Doubt swiftwind is better than earth shaker for archery.

Yea for plunkquest no way Swiftwind beats the 56 damage bonus instead of 11. I don’t know the effect of the attack but it’s not 45 extra per hit.

Quick bows are better with a 2h too but the number of arrows you need to last a disc let alone a long raid fight are insane. I only bow down Lucan with my Dagarn since he’s has low hps and almost every hit is a damage bonus one.

[Trelaboon]

Man, it’s generally not great for anything but small groups and soloing, but in that instance, it’s leaps and bounds better than Swarmcaller/Wurmslayer. It’s damage is a good deal better than Wurmy, and you don’t have to worry about an additional haste item when using a Swarmcaller. Not to mention the attack on the Swiftwind just compounds how much better it is not having to take it off just for a slow proc.

I can’t even explain how much easier and more fun soloing got once I snagged my Earthcaller. Plus it looks cool as hell.

[Ripqozko]

Man, it’s generally not great for anything but small groups and soloing, but in that instance, it’s leaps and bounds better than Swarmcaller/Wurmslayer. It’s damage is a good deal better than Wurmy, and you don’t have to worry about an additional haste item when using a Swarmcaller. Not to mention the attack on the Swiftwind just compounds how much better it is not having to take it off just for a slow proc.

I can’t even explain how much easier and more fun soloing got once I snagged my Earthcaller. Plus it looks cool as hell.

I had earthcaller and still used sboz from 46-60, the dps out weighed the random procs on just normal exp grinding, it only shines really on low man content where ya have no other slow, ie: juggs duo with a cleric .

[Snaggles]

Or almost every Aary where 15 seconds into the encounter raid leaders are asking for people to try and slow proc it. Or pretanking Klandi with WS.

There are actually a lot of raid fights that a ranger can help with a proc. Every proc resist met with a jolt keeps you pretty aggro neutral.

[Crede]

Swarmcaller is for the poor, Earthcaller is for the ballers. If ya don’t got it, you’re prob mad about it. Just sayin

[Ripqozko]

Or almost every Aary where 15 seconds into the encounter raid leaders are asking for people to try and slow proc it. Or pretanking Klandi with WS.

There are actually a lot of raid fights that a ranger can help with a proc. Every proc resist met with a jolt keeps you pretty aggro neutral.

You have raid full of DSM shamans if they can't do the aary slow , rangers should be bopping it.


/GU Aaryonar in 497s, 425k @855 | Shoeshineboy 31465@(66 in 472s) | Phillip 24982@(53 in 470s) | Scian 24574@(51 in 473s) | Ripqozko 21916@(50 in 435s) | Lisson 21106@(47 in 444s) | Pulz 20502@(44 in 461s) | Gatruk 20476@(46 in 436s) | Enviee 19119@(43 in 441s) | Cattiebree 18603@(42 in 436s) | Simorgh 16999@(36 in 461s) | Satsugai 16042@(37 in 426s) | Kushnada 15302@(32 in 475s) | Choamsky 15151@(38 in 392s) | Joraah 14458@(31 in 465s) | Zogaguk 13400@(30 in 440s)

[Trelaboon]

I had earthcaller and still used sboz from 46-60, the dps out weighed the random procs on just normal exp grinding, it only shines really on low man content where ya have no other slow, ie: juggs duo with a cleric .

Don’t agree at all. I had a SBoZ as well while leveling mine, and the Earthcaller cut down my downtime so much. Solo grinding became so much easier and more efficient.

[Ripqozko]

Don’t agree at all. I had a SBoZ as well while leveling mine, and the Earthcaller cut down my downtime so much. Solo grinding became so much easier and more efficient.

proc is too random for me, its great when you need a slow, but just grinding if you proc at 10% the mob would of already been dead with a sboz, depends on what ya fight i guess. its just niche for me, i use it when its needed but thats pretty rare.

[Trelaboon]

proc is too random for me, its great when you need a slow, but just grinding if you proc at 10% the mob would of already been dead with a sboz, depends on what ya fight i guess. its just niche for me, i use it when its needed but thats pretty rare.

I mean it’s definitely all about RNG. But I found over the course of an hours solo grinding session I would get far more kills in with the epic. It’s not a make or break item, but for me, it made grinding way more efficient. I pretty much exclusively solo’d to 60 and it just made things so much faster for me. Different strokes I guess.

[Ripqozko]

I mean it’s definitely all about RNG. But I found over the course of an hours solo grinding session I would get far more kills in with the epic. It’s not a make or break item, but for me, it made grinding way more efficient. I pretty much exclusively solo’d to 60 and it just made things so much faster for me. Different strokes I guess.

prob i solo'd to 60 as well, with sky cloak +swiftwind +sboz, just cleared lfay brownies for easy ass exp, the proc usually wouldnt land until they were running half the time. it depends on what ya fight i guess. soloing KC prob better to have epic.

[Jimjam]

It deffo depends. On stuff you can churn through just go ahead and churn. On stuff like a dark assassin which takes a while to defeat - having a slow land, even if after a minute or two, really helps.

[Toxigen]

people tend to remember the slow procs at 10% and not the slow procs at 95%

just sayin

[Encroaching Death]

I had one that landed right on engagement yesterday.

Feelsgoodman

[Snaggles]

If you are going to melee stuff to level, that is hitting you, slowing is a huge benefit. A ranger can joust until they get a slow proc because they can root what they are fighting.

I did this to my high 50's with hard hitting stuff I didnt want to bow down (like Drolvarg Ravishers). Even w/o a proc on the Swarmcaller often the joust dmg would outrun their damage. If you get an early proc, great. Keep attack on and enjoy feeling tough.

[Encroaching Death]

If you are going to melee stuff to level, that is hitting you, slowing is a huge benefit. A ranger can joust until they get a slow proc because they can root what they are fighting.

I did this to my high 50's with hard hitting stuff I didnt want to bow down (like Drolvarg Ravishers). Even w/o a proc on the Swarmcaller often the joust dmg would outrun their damage. If you get an early proc, great. Keep attack on and enjoy feeling tough.

Quick questions regarding jousting and bow soloing:

Jousting works best with a 2 hander weapon, correct? I've never really soloed enough with a melee character to learn jousting.

Can you solo with a bow in the 50s? If so, what's the best strat? Root/bow, bow kite until mob is running? is it viable with a Tolan's Bracer and a decent bow?

[Trelaboon]

Quick questions regarding jousting and bow soloing:

Jousting works best with a 2 hander weapon, correct? I've never really soloed enough with a melee character to learn jousting.

Can you solo with a bow in the 50s? If so, what's the best strat? Root/bow, bow kite until mob is running? is it viable with a Tolan's Bracer and a decent bow?

Yes. The harder hitting weapon the better. Root, step out of ranger until the swing timer is up, then step back in.

Bow kiting is doable but super slow. Works if you’re trying to solo something you’d otherwise be unable to melee down, assuming it doesn’t summon, but I’d never recommend it as a means of actually exp grinding.

[Snaggles]

You can joust with a 1h too if going for a proc but a swarmcaller is better for that. Or like an Earthshaker. You are just more likely to do a moderate to nice dmg round and the slower swing delay means a higher chance of the proc happening.

Once the button is held down all weapon procs are normalized (procs per minute). An earthcaller has like half the chance to proc per swing (since half the delay) compared to the swarmcaller, but the same per minute of melee.

Yea I would bow rot stuff. Get a velium bow, equip a 2h. it works ok if the mob doesnt have a ton of hps.