Proposal: Continuous Resetting Progression Server

[binibren]

This is a post I made on PEQ 2 years ago (wow, almost to the day) about a continuously resetting progression server. Now that p1999 exists I would love to see it over here and for the same reasons. Here's the link and a copy of the text (so you needn't click):

Proposal: Continuous Resetting Progression Server (http://www.peqtgc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=35064&sid=7303170d81ccddcd8092acdbd86f328a)

First let me say I just love PEQ. To be able to logon to a server (which I have done many times) and see the EQ that I knew 10 years ago is a gift for which I give many thanks to Cavedude, et al. That being said I find myself running into a bit of a motivation problem as I attempt to level up. The early zones are pretty desolate and when I do some "/who all" queries I notice most people are weighted toward the end game - and I completely understand that. However, I also notice that there is much nostalgia about (eqclassic.org is a prime example) and that there is constant chatter about progression servers on the EQLive boards. So let me come right to the point: I would love to see a second PEQ (PEQ2) server whose only purpose was to run as a progression server and after time limit is reached the entire server population would be folded into the original PEQ server (PEQ1). PEQ2 would then be reset and it would start all over again. The kind of progression (eg release -> kunark -> velious) and the time limit (3-12 months?) could certainly be debated and perhaps changed per reset (release->velious in 3 months this time, release->POP in 5 months next reset).

So why? There are a couple of reasons. First there is a lot of desire for it if the EQLive and EQClassics boards are to be believed. Second it allows new PEQ users to become sort of a class (eg PEQ Fall 2009) where they all start together. Lastly, at least for the first few weeks, there will be lively activity in all of the newbie zones giving us old timers that 1999 deja vu all over again.

Thoughts? Am I just a crazy old gamer? Don't answer that! Hopefully this idea hasn't already been suggested and tossed out.

Finally, if this sounds workable I would be more than happy to pitch in for the new hardware to the tune of at least $2-300.


How's that for a /necro thread? :)

[Kika Maslyaka]

what you proposing starts to sound like playing Diablo over and over again, doing same run faster, faster and faster.

Also - your 2 year old necroing is nothing - there was a recent necroing of a post on emu boards from 8 years ago. The poster was completely clueless :D

[binibren]

Personally I would curse&quit if my chars got erased.

Your character wouldn't be deleted. It would move from progression to "live" or whatever name you would give the current "real" P1999 server.

[deakolt]

Your character wouldn't be deleted. It would move from progression to "live" or whatever name you would give the current "real" P1999 server.

this would introduce a slew of problems with item drops which were later taken out of the game...

I suppose the progression servers could start with the items in question already nerfed/taken out, but then that wouldn't feeel very classic to me

[Nirgon]

Obvi, as long as it is seperate from p99.

[Kika Maslyaka]

as much as I enjoyed playing Diablo, EQ (as a MMO) is inherently superior game. To me this is primary because Diablo has a determined ending, while EQ doesn't. And thanks to expansions, you can keep advancing your character further and further. (yeah some people don't like certain expansions due to changes in Vision, but that's a separate issue)
Thats entire point of char-development game for me.

What Op is proposing is essential turn EQ into Diablo, and keeps rolling "classic" over and over until you bleed from your ears.

Yes there are games that I enjoy re-playing from start - but those usually the game which use random seed which make different game every time you play - Master of Orion, HOMM etc.

But taking perfectly good open end MMO and turning into into loop-cycling Diablo clone is such a tremendous downgrade for entire genre.

[Vondra]

I'd like it personally but I dunno how well it'd work out. For one it'd take some players away from the existing main server which is bad, for another the activity on the tail end of the server cycle would be really low.

After all, not much point in working hard on grouping/raiding etc when you know the servers being wiped in 2 months or something.

Personally I'd rather see THIS server wipe...a few years from now that is, once Velious has been out for a couple years and people are bored or something. A wipe might be more palatable for most of the playerbase at that point. Of course that'd draw in new players too.

At any rate, what you're suggesting from server start to wipe in a year...if nothing else that timeframe is too short to be cycling through expansions imo.

[Doors]

I'm not opposed to a character wipe, but only after Velious becomes stale. Fuck custom content.

And that would be literally years from now.

[Nytewind TP]

Agreed, there will be a time when P99 hits a cap. Character Wipe and reset would be best thing later on.

I'm not opposed to a character wipe, but only after Velious becomes stale. Fuck custom content.

And that would be literally years from now.

[Felwithemagi]

No.

[azeth]

The only folks who'd likely oppose a server wipe, even *right now today, are:

1. People in their mid 30's 40's, who're still living the classic eq dream

2. Folks with rare/invaluable items i.e prenerf fungi, shitloads of platinum, Lustrous Russet

3. Anyone who's going away this weekend and would be unable to grind for a hundred hours straight on server up :p

[deakolt]

4. People who don't have absurd amounts of time to play the game and dont want to lose their [1 day, 5 day, 10 day, 20 day, ...] time investment into their characters.

[Werlop]

The only folks who'd likely oppose a server wipe, even *right now today, are:

1. People in their mid 30's 40's, who're still living the classic eq dream

2. Folks with rare/invaluable items i.e prenerf fungi, shitloads of platinum, Lustrous Russet

3. Anyone who's going away this weekend and would be unable to grind for a hundred hours straight on server up :p

Sounds about right. I've invested a ton of time into my main. I wouldn't mind doing it all over again if he were decked out in NToV gear with his epic and had absolutely no way to progress and no new content to beat, but that's a long way off. In the meantime, I want to enjoy the fruits of all that grinding/raiding.

In response to the OP: t took me about 4 months to get to 50 on my main and at least another 2 before I even had full planar armor. If the server resets more than every 8-10 months, there isn't really enough time to enjoy even vanilla EQ, let alone the 2-4 month grind to 60 and all of the content that Velious adds.

[Kika Maslyaka]

IMHO a MMO should not be played like an FPS mission.

For example I absolutely love UT2004 Onslaught missions - you load the game, and you fight for 20 min to take over enemy base. One of the team wins, and you start again.

But doing same thing to EQ is.... beyond my understanding.

[azeth]

But doing same thing to EQ is.... beyond my understanding.

I definitely treat MMORPGs, and even my real life a lot like your UT2004 mission. I think there's a happy medium between enjoying the journey without progress, to making progress without enjoying the journey - I'm still trying everyday to keep it inbetween the 2.

[binibren]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. There is no need to start over and over again. There are 2 servers:

1. Project 1999 (exactly as it is today, no changes, continues on)
2. Optional Progression Server

You could play on the main server (1) exactly today. It does not change.

For the progression server (2) it would reset every so often (configurable). When it does all characters there MOVE to main server (1). You're merged into the normal population. You are not deleted. At that point server (2) is again a fresh world (a la March 1999).

Quit saying Diablo it's nothing like that. The progression server is just a place for people who come late to the party but would like to experience a fresh server. So every so often (let's say every 3 months) the server population is merged and reset. It's really not that complicated.

[Messianic]

No.

[deakolt]

For the progression server (2) it would reset every so often (configurable). When it does all characters there MOVE to main server (1). You're merged into the normal population. You are not deleted. At that point server (2) is again a fresh world (a la March 1999).


I still think you need to answer my point, are you proposing we remove things like manastone from the progression server? Otherwise the main server would be flooded with them every half year or whatever the turnaround is, and the economy on main server would no longer be classic.

[Aadill]

Yeah you kind of break the economy when camps are available in two locations, items that no longer drop start dropping again, or even if raid targets are available on the second server.

The server would have to be isolated and simply wipe every so often, nothing else you can do there.

[binibren]

I still think you need to answer my point, are you proposing we remove things like manastone from the progression server? Otherwise the main server would be flooded with them every half year or whatever the turnaround is, and the economy on main server would no longer be classic.

No way. I'm a developer and maintaining multiple versions of anything is a pain in the ass. When I made this proposal it was for PEQ which is quite different than P1999. What I would propose for P1999 is just to mirror the current server (with same expansions -- ie not an actual "progression" server) but just start with a fresh character base. Easy to maintain, all items easily transferable.

[Doors]

What you down syndrome retards fail to realize is that if they don't wipe it, lets say 2 years after Velious has been on farm status by even casuals, the server will die. Actually it will probably have been dead if they haven't wiped it by this point, or gone in a different direction like Luclin (lol) or custom content (even worse than wiping the server.)

Just because you want to bank all your rare shit and let it sit there does not mean it's a good idea to let the server die. Anyone opposed to a wipe years after velious is a fucking moron period. You don't know what you're talking about. servers die whenever theres no where else to go with them.

[Tiggles]

I only read the title of this thread but it is a dumb idea.

[Nirgon]

Don't play into the hands of the box wipe committee.

A seperate progression server that resets is cool.

[Tewaz]

Young Tiggle Genius

[Verenity]

I only read the title of this thread but it is a dumb idea.

[Radiskull]

I actually like the concept behind this. Minus the short amount of time you're putting on the reset. The second server should be exactly like the first server as a time line. That would prevent the "flood of new items" that everyone seems to be complaining about, because we're talking atleast a 3 year time period.

Everyone on this server has to understand something. This server isn't gonna last forever. It's going to wither and die, the developers have stated over and over again they have no intention of going past Velious, and even less intention of talking about it for years. If it doesn't go past Velious, everyone is going to get tired of zero new content after a few years. Custom content or wipe, none of the options are pretty. This allows people to maintain original toons, and allows people to get the reset they desire.

[Swish]

What I would propose for P1999 is just to mirror the current server (with same expansions -- ie not an actual "progression" server) but just start with a fresh character base. Easy to maintain, all items easily transferable.

I dunno, you'd be making 25 people very mad if that happened before P99 red went live ;)

[Troy]

Why is more people getting to see a fresh EQ server a bad thing?

Some of us missed the 99 launch and the p99 launch.

PLUS p99 has made a lot of non-classic things classic and could do a much closer to 1999 launch today than they did the first time around...

[bluejam]

I only read the title of this thread but it is a dumb idea.

[binibren]

Why is more people getting to see a fresh EQ server a bad thing?

Yes, kind of a head-scratcher to me.

[Aadill]

Because running them concurrent requires extra resources that aren't available.

Not to mention transferring items from one to the other results in massive fluctuations in no-longer-available market items every so often.

Having one server that resets down the road? Yeah that's fine.

Having two separate servers? That's fine if you fund it, assuming anyone would give you the source code (not likely).

Having two servers that interact with each other? That has never been done in the entire history of this game, and there's a reason for it.

[Akim]

we need to reset p99 anyway -- i like it

[Akim]

PLUS p99 has made a lot of non-classic things classic and could do a much closer to 1999 launch today than they did the first time around...

word

[Swish]

I don't have any 60's or 50's, but I think the core of people that do would hate to see the server wiped and delete all the good work they've put in. Would you want to wipe your 60's and start again, because other people "missed the boat" so to speak?

Think about it. What about the people that find the server in 1-2 years time when you levelled YOUR characters to 60 after the first wipe? Do their opinions matter? After all, it would only be fair.

I don't like the inflation going on at the moment, the amount of EC opportunists manipulating Goonquest to hyperinflate prices on high end items. Nothing wrong with buying low/selling high... except for things (such as darkforge armor, which has spiralled in price since I bought some of mine) that mid level people will want but never be able to afford. That hurts the server in my opinion - the mountain becomes much higher to climb, if the player can't get help from guildies.

[binibren]

Because running them concurrent requires extra resources that aren't available.

Very valid point. I offered to pitch in for PEQ and I would do the same here. There are also admin resources to consider. But, these 2 items alone might push it beyond feasibility.

Not to mention transferring items from one to the other results in massive fluctuations in no-longer-available market items every so often.

Addressed earlier. Constrain items to that which exist on the main line server.

Having two servers that interact with each other? That has never been done in the entire history of this game, and there's a reason for it.

They wouldn't interact. At the end of term characters would be copied to the original Project 1999 to live out their lives just all characters do now. It would a DB export/import.

[quellren]

Addressed earlier. Constrain items to that which exist on the main line server.



They wouldn't interact. At the end of term characters would be copied to the original Project 1999 to live out their lives just all characters do now. It would a DB export/import.

I guess I'm confused, if the 'new' progression will, from day 1, lack items that no longer drop on P99, like Manastone, Rubicite BP, Scimitar of Mistwalker, Thex Dagger and Guise of the Deciever, and this progression server would someday 'die' and be assimilated into the live server, whats the point?

What's the incentive to play there? To be at square one with everyone else?

[binibren]

I guess I'm confused, if the 'new' progression will, from day 1, lack items that no longer drop on P99, like Manastone, Rubicite BP, Scimitar of Mistwalker, Thex Dagger and Guise of the Deciever, and this progression server would someday 'die' and be assimilated into the live server, whats the point?

What's the incentive to play there? To be at square one with everyone else?

To minimize risk/cost/impact I would suggest an iterative approach that starts with the current baseline so that you have an "80% solution." From there find out what will and won't work and make changes accordingly. Some problems are actually quite like hard. For example, how does one handle legacy items like manastones? I'm not sure. So factor it out and start with what is easy and then move forward.

I think it's true that the first iteration wouldn't be totally compelling except for those who just wanted a fresh world. But later resets might include true progression or even (if the difficult problems can be overcome) legacy items like the manastone and rubicite armor.

[quellren]

I applaud your vision, but ultimately, it seems like a 'Having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too' situation.

You either:
1) Give a much larger playerbase (one that has grown from P99's day1) an opportunity to go back and camp those items knowing someday they can be introduced into P99 someday. That's not really good for the P99 economy.
or)
2) As mentioned above, you never allow 'Legacy Items' and remove the incentive to play there except for the minority that wants a temporarily twink-free world.

[Polixenes]

I applaud your vision, but ultimately, it seems like a 'Having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too' situation.

You either:
1) Give a much larger playerbase (one that has grown from P99's day1) an opportunity to go back and camp those items knowing someday they can be introduced into P99 someday. That's not really good for the P99 economy.
or)
2) As mentioned above, you never allow 'Legacy Items' and remove the incentive to play there except for the minority that wants a temporarily twink-free world.


I'm not sure why #2 is a disincentive, the point of progression servers is not to amass manastones.

I think the OP's idea is interesting.

[Werlop]

What you down syndrome retards fail to realize is that if they don't wipe it, lets say 2 years after Velious has been on farm status by even casuals, the server will die. Actually it will probably have been dead if they haven't wiped it by this point, or gone in a different direction like Luclin (lol) or custom content (even worse than wiping the server.)

Just because you want to bank all your rare shit and let it sit there does not mean it's a good idea to let the server die. Anyone opposed to a wipe years after velious is a fucking moron period. You don't know what you're talking about. servers die whenever theres no where else to go with them.

Rogean actually said they would do custom content later.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/43540-new-p1999-cripple-fight-191.html

I've mentioned this in a few areas but it never gets quoted when the subject is brought up again, but after Velious we will probably do some custom stuff. Maybe use some of the geometry of luclin, pop, or anything after it (any zone up to dodh is supported) and populate it with our own stuff.. maybe use the same items that dropped in luclin/pop but make different ways to achieve them. Stuff like that. I think it would be fun.

In addition we would also probably open a second P99 starting at classic again.

[Tiggles]

I liked Luclin.

All you DnD nerds hating on the moon.

I wanna kill giant snake egyptions again

[jarshale]

I liked Luclin.

All you DnD nerds hating on the moon.

I wanna kill giant snake egyptions again

This. Although I hated the concept and I hated the cat people, I loved the new weapon, zone, and mob graphics