Mage epic --- game changing?

[Selene]

Does the epic pet for the mage (post-nerf of course) change the gameplay or solo ability of the mage to any significant degree? Hoping to get the opinions of some epic mages. I doubt I'll ever get one but just curious. Does it allow you to dungeon crawl solo in seb for example? Just wondering how tanky it is

[Balimon]

The short answer is yes - it's game changing. It opens some doors and it generally kills faster and is stronger than the other pets. The longer answer is that it's complicated. The main advantage the epic pet has is that it's always the same level when you summon it, removing the randomness. I haven't parsed any data but I believe that a focused air pet actually tanks more effectively because it's a monk class versus the warrior class of the epic. When I first got epic I was kinda disappointed in how fast he loses health compared to the air which I used 100% of the time solo.

That being said, epic still has more hit points, higher level, and stronger DS and effects. It's more often the better DPS option than the other pets and tankier. Not being able to reclaim it is sad, but being able to 'store' a charge on a fresh orb summon is pretty amazing for difficult fights or for raiding. If all you're doing is planning on soloing I don't know if it's really worth it? The focused air pet is incredible for this already, but it doesn't kill as quickly.

I'm curious what other folks think about this question or what they've used the pet that they couldn't before. Personally I have used it to farm greens faster (duh!) kill the named wyverns in skyshrine, I've had it tank difficult mobs with a healer, duoed Tserrina with a wizard, kill the named wurms in GD. I know I could solo some named in chardok but haven't had time to try.

[Toxigen]

Does it allow you to dungeon crawl solo in seb for example?

Absolutely not. Mages suck at soloing anything remotely worthwhile because they still don't have root, slow, etc.

All the epic does is allow a mage to farm just a little bit tougher (albeit still easy) mass amounts of mobs. Will it feel great when you first get it? Sure, the fashion alone is pretty baller. Soon thereafter you'll come to the realization it hasn't made your character that much stronger.

Unfortunately mages are best leveled to 55 and used as COTH bots.

Whats an earth staff sell for these days? 1 million plat? I'd much rather have a million to spend on other classes and have a stable of well geared chars to actually be useful on.

[Jimjam]

The real mage epic spell summons raiders, not elementals!

[Ripqozko]

It will help you farm the 700p you need for a wc cap when you need to swap to a useful class

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Unfortunately the cost of an Earth Staff is simply too great for it to offset the gains you receive. Obviously if you want the Mage Epic for fashion or fun that trumps everything. This is a game after all. But you won't suddenly be able to kill significantly harder mobs.

Allishia gave me some DPS data on the Epic pet (post nerf). It does 80-90 DPS in terms of melee damage + procs, and the damage shield is doing around 30 DPS. So when the epic pet is tanking you're getting around 120 DPS, not including nukes.

Those are pretty good numbers, a Rogue with Epic and a second good weapon is doing around 133 DPS with backstabs on Sebilis mobs. The main problem Mages have is no CC of any kind. You may be able to do some harder mobs if you have bags of root nets and give your epic pet a swarmcaller, but you are going to be sinking a lot of time and plat into keeping those items on your character, ready for the next target.

[Toxigen]

Imagine putting a swarmcaller on a mage pet.

Just play an enchanter.

[Ripqozko]

Imagine putting a swarmcaller on a mage pet.

Just play an enchanter.

We use to do it to slow vulak faster, but thats pretty niche

[Snaggles]

No it's not a gamechanger unless your game is farming green cons or duoing with it as your tank.

Higher DS, more hps, stun proc, higher melee hits. A pretty no-brainer for that stuff. It seems to always come out the same level hitting for 67's too where the water pet can take half a dozen summons or so to get a 60'hitter. The earth pet is quite durable, non-focused hits for 60 tops and bashes, and is the only one with a root proc that lands on all sorts of stuff. So in short our pets are great and one is simply the best all-around performer.

I don't have the mage epic but a lot of my guildies do have it. I have done a LOT of parsing with the focused water pet. I'll usually bring the mage instead of my ranger just out of curiosity to small group kills. Fay, Uulump, Lhranc, Miragul, Xenvorash, etc. With proper positioning for backstabs the water does about 10% more on red cons that won't get hit with the pet's spell damage. I expect on on stuff that the spells land on it's closer to equal (I can't see other spell dmg parses). With horrid positioning, the epic pulls ahead because it's not reliant on backstabs.

Compared to players, on stuff like Vindi, it falls mid-tier for DPS; out of say 30 people meleeing it's often in the low teens. That's more a testament to how bad most melees parse though than how good a water pet is. I spent a couple of hours in seb and my water pet was trading coin flips with our 57 rogue on who was doing more DPS, and that was without a proper tank knowing where to aim a mob. It was doing consistently about twice the dps of our 55 ranger.

If you see the mage as a +1 DPS and are ignoring COTH, Mala/sini, nukes, and the DS it's still a great class. The pet on normal grind stuff performs far better than the average melee and never pulls aggro. On red cons like Vindi, it still holds up ok (and again never pulls aggro). What not having the epic does cost you is a ton of stats and the annoyance of having to recycle pets for a "good one" when you need to help out.

Would I love the epic? Sure, hell yea. I might end up with an earth staff someday if the stars align. I don't personally feel I'm lacking anything though. Put velocity on the water pet and get good at changing its position and quickly re-attacking. Just pretend you arent a warmbody rogue and even a filthy casual mage can keep up.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah generally speaking putting a swarmcaller on a summoned pet isn't worth the cost, with the exception of Vulak as Ripqozko points out.

The biggest benefit you get from Mage Epic is the ability to corpse free pets. If you had like 30 corpses in a single zone, a Bio Orb, Swarmcaller, and root nets, you could probably do some solo artist stuff. That would mostly be for fun though, I doubt you would make the plat back hehe, unless you got a really nice item from one of the mobs.

[sajbert]

TLDR: No you cannot solo stuff like seb crypt unless maybe you’re gonna do it as a challenge type of deal with lots of hassle, consumables and whatnot.

I honestly have no idea who pays 700k+ for an Earth Staff. It’s not worth it unless that is your one p99 goal: To have a mage Epic. Even then I’ll bet you’ll be feeling pretty empty afterwards.

[loramin]

Even then I’ll bet you’ll be feeling pretty empty afterwards.

Yup ... vs. every other "magic pixel" one can acquire on P99 ... all of which leave you feeling so fulfilled :rolleyes:

[sajbert]

Yup ... vs. every other "magic pixel" one can acquire on P99 ... all of which leave you feeling so fulfilled :rolleyes:

Eh. Some items open up for new options and alter how you play without 8283993hrs of camping hate. E.g. Jboots, goblin gazhugi ring, several of the other class epics, fungi tunic, jbb etc

[Toxigen]

Eh. Some items open up for new options and alter how you play without 8283993hrs of camping hate. E.g. Jboots, goblin gazhugi ring, several of the other class epics, fungi tunic, jbb etc

Z heart

[Toxigen]

We use to do it to slow vulak faster, but thats pretty niche

Yeah thats just a raid consumable.

[Balimon]

People have brought up some good points. The epic pet mostly just lets you solo the same stuff faster/easier than before. It isn't just a vanity item however, it is definitely a step up from the other pets. You don't need it though, focused air or water pet is just fine. The biggest advantage is being freed from the struggle of summoning a max level/hit pet. If you're looking for an epic for solo play it's not really worth the cost or time investment as others have said.

The epic is more of a raid upgrade really...even as just a stat stick. Having an on demand 67 Max hit pet is the other real benefit. If you are a serious raider than it may be worthwhile to you, it's one of the best pieces of kit you can get, albeit an expensive one. Sadly because of game balence Mages really need clickies and kit to be relevant in raiding.

I recommend going after a Manna robe and Z heart instead, these are must haves for Mages in my opinion. I haven't worn my epic much since getting my Z heart, it's just so good. Both of these items are cheaper than an Earth staff plat or dkp wise. Getting some MP Regen to go along with it is even better.

[Ripqozko]

People have brought up some good points. The epic pet mostly just lets you solo the same stuff faster/easier than before. It isn't just a vanity item however, it is definitely a step up from the other pets. You don't need it though, focused air or water pet is just fine. The biggest advantage is being freed from the struggle of summoning a max level/hit pet. If you're looking for an epic for solo play it's not really worth the cost or time investment as others have said.

The epic is more of a raid upgrade really...even as just a stat stick. Having an on demand 67 Max hit pet is the other real benefit. If you are a serious raider than it may be worthwhile to you, it's one of the best pieces of kit you can get, albeit an expensive one. Sadly because of game balence Mages really need clickies and kit to be relevant in raiding.

I recommend going after a Manna robe and Z heart instead, these are must haves for Mages in my opinion. I haven't worn my epic much since getting my Z heart, it's just so good. Both of these items are cheaper than an Earth staff plat or dkp wise. Getting some MP Regen to go along with it is even better.

All that is fluff, all that matters on raid side is can you quad mage? if you cant you are failing your 1 job. the rest bots can do.

[Selene]

thanks a ton for the advice everyone!

Why would a manna robe + Z heart matter so much for a mage? It's not like we are pumping out nukes...is it to cast a bunch of COTH's?

Do the pets actually do decent damage against a raid target? Seems like with Vindi it can be middling, which is nothing to sneeze at

[Ripqozko]

thanks a ton for the advice everyone!

Why would a manna robe + Z heart matter so much for a mage? It's not like we are pumping out nukes...is it to cast a bunch of COTH's?

Do the pets actually do decent damage against a raid target? Seems like with Vindi it can be middling, which is nothing to sneeze at

For the fights where it can be used sure, vindi, kt, statue, aow. Lot tho it is more of a hindrance and not advised to use a pet in general. Mages are better served kiting trash away.

[Snaggles]

Do the pets actually do decent damage against a raid target? Seems like with Vindi it can be middling, which is nothing to sneeze at

You can’t always use a pet with a raid. It depends but sometimes they can be used.

A 52 hitting focused water on Vindi does 39 dps. A 60 hitting water does about 47 dps. Both with muzzles. That seems low but it’s about middle of the pack if you are considering casual raiders of varying levels/classes/gear.

There is a bit variance with PC’s but my rocksmasher 60 pally with VoG today did 49 dps. Not full attack buffs but another middle-performer this time.

Rip is right though. For raids quick and vocal coths, and DA training. That’s the mage life.

[Toxigen]

Why would a manna robe + Z heart matter so much for a mage? is it to cast a bunch of COTH's?



yes

on fast engages every coth counts....now, ill say coth ORDER is far more important than manna robe + z heart but when you're lacking bard/necro pump it can make a difference between yellow text and sorry-you-dont-got-FTE-see-you-in-7-days

[Ripqozko]

yes

on fast engages every coth counts....now, ill say coth ORDER is far more important than manna robe + z heart but when you're lacking bard/necro pump it can make a difference between yellow text and sorry-you-dont-got-FTE-see-you-in-7-days

i sure wouldnt buy it tho, let the guild provide it or use dkp. once you hit a certain mana threshold, mana and manarobe/zheart kinda pointless. coth order and what you have on RTE matters more, long as you can coth around 8-10 people on your own. once i hit 4k mana i stopped even trying to get mana items anymore (i wear draco shoulders for instance).

[Crede]

Best answer is to just not raid. Farm pp with mage to buy shit as needed. Focused air and water pet are good enough.

[Ripqozko]

Best answer is to just not raid. Farm pp with mage to buy shit as needed. Focused air and water pet are good enough.

thats why i suggested the wc cap to change to your better char awhile ago.

[Toxigen]

Best answer is to just not raid. Farm pp with mage to buy shit as needed. Focused air and water pet are good enough.

nah best bet is to warmbody the shit out of raids and get sellable raid loot

way more plat per hour

[Allishia]

Mage epic was game changer for me. I made my mage back in 2015, got bored of constantly having to summon pet over and over to get max one, drove me nuts. I quit mage at level 51/52....earth staff dropped, I bid on it, few months later 60 mage...soo friggin fun to level omg

[Ripqozko]

Mage epic was game changer for me. I made my mage back in 2015, got bored of constantly having to summon pet over and over to get max one, drove me nuts. I quit mage at level 51/52....earth staff dropped, I bid on it, few months later 60 mage...soo friggin fun to level omg

Thats not game changing, thats you being lazy. hope that helps.

[Crede]

They just need to revert the dumb root net recharge cost since everyone farms specters anyway. Would be a big deal for mages getting epic and opening up options.

[Snaggles]

If anyone with an epic wants to see how far the epic pet can get a geonid down without assistance that would be interesting. I know the earth needs a lot of help but would be game to do some testing and report back with various pet strengths and npc health percentages. It would be fun to add EoT into the mix. Well, I think so, lol.

[Toxigen]

If an epic pet can't solo a single geonid its 100% not worth getting.

[Balimon]

If anyone with an epic wants to see how far the epic pet can get a geonid down without assistance that would be interesting. I know the earth needs a lot of help but would be game to do some testing and report back with various pet strengths and npc health percentages. It would be fun to add EoT into the mix. Well, I think so, lol.

Epic can definitely handle regular Geo's, the shaman's are a lot tougher and require some nuking

[Balimon]

thanks a ton for the advice everyone!

Why would a manna robe + Z heart matter so much for a mage? It's not like we are pumping out nukes...is it to cast a bunch of COTH's?

Do the pets actually do decent damage against a raid target? Seems like with Vindi it can be middling, which is nothing to sneeze at

Yeah it's for cothing mainly, but the extra mana is useful for making rods too! The other reason it's so good for cothing is that there is a 3 second recast timer on the spell after you use a clickie to refresh the spell gem. Manna robe is a 3 second cast so it's the perfect timer to refresh coth.

Target Cothee
Cast Coth
Click Robe, target next cothee during cast
Cast Coth

It's the most efficient way to coth quickly and anyone who has a robe setup has an advantage over those that don't. It isn't necessary by any means, you can time it with anything. The robe/heart/hp regen item combo also is the only way for a mage to get extra mana back without gear or spells, why wouldn't you want that?

As for pets, they do fine damage against raid targets, an epic pet will range from 35-50 dps depending on the mob while a max level focused water pet will range more like 40-55. They definitely aren't used all the time, and are underused in my opinion. Considering that the DPS is essentially adding in half or two thirds a melee in addition to the utility roles of cothing, dropping rods, and casting DS it's nothing to sneeze at.

Mages are useful and needed on raids beyond just being bots, but generally you only need 1-3 active mage players in most raids, anything beyond that and you'd be better served with more necro's or rogues or whatever else the raid might need.

[Ripqozko]

Yeah it's for cothing mainly, but the extra mana is useful for making rods too! The other reason it's so good for cothing is that there is a 3 second recast timer on the spell after you use a clickie to refresh the spell gem. Manna robe is a 3 second cast so it's the perfect timer to refresh coth.

Target Cothee
Cast Coth
Click Robe, target next cothee during cast
Cast Coth

It's the most efficient way to coth quickly and anyone who has a robe setup has an advantage over those that don't. It isn't necessary by any means, you can time it with anything. The robe/heart/hp regen item combo also is the only way for a mage to get extra mana back without gear or spells, why wouldn't you want that?

As for pets, they do fine damage against raid targets, an epic pet will range from 35-50 dps depending on the mob while a max level focused water pet will range more like 40-55. They definitely aren't used all the time, and are underused in my opinion. Considering that the DPS is essentially adding in half or two thirds a melee in addition to the utility roles of cothing, dropping rods, and casting DS it's nothing to sneeze at.

Mages are useful and needed on raids beyond just being bots, but generally you only need 1-3 active mage players in most raids, anything beyond that and you'd be better served with more necro's or rogues or whatever else the raid might need.

bots can take care of most that, if the active mage isnt training trash with their DA's then they are wasting time, my shit tier 5th alt pally does more then mage pet, let alone any good dps. I love my mage, but i love actively being in pulls/Training things. Mages have great tools and work great for working inside a pull team where they should be. Training away trash, Tagging in hub, PR trains, Emergency trains, DA to start engages, goaltending. Rods arent even needed with most raid squads since they bring 4x the amount of people required.

[Balimon]

bots can take care of most that, if the active mage isnt training trash with their DA's then they are wasting time, my shit tier 5th alt pally does more then mage pet, let alone any good dps. I love my mage, but i love actively being in pulls/Training things. Mages have great tools and work great for working inside a pull team where they should be. Training away trash, Tagging in hub, PR trains, Emergency trains, DA to start engages, goaltending. Rods arent even needed with most raid squads since they bring 4x the amount of people required.

Any class can be botted...that being said, yes being involved in the pulls and trainouts in ToV is huge for mages. We still use rods on green, but I can see that as the top two guilds get zergier as time goes on where it would be more limited.

[Toxigen]

bots can take care of most that, if the active mage isnt training trash with their DA's then they are wasting time, my shit tier 5th alt pally does more then mage pet, let alone any good dps. I love my mage, but i love actively being in pulls/Training things. Mages have great tools and work great for working inside a pull team where they should be. Training away trash, Tagging in hub, PR trains, Emergency trains, DA to start engages, goaltending. Rods arent even needed with most raid squads since they bring 4x the amount of people required.

this.

unfortunately most actual mage players just warmbody

[Tunabros]

get good and get earth staff

profit

[sajbert]

get good and get earth staff

profit

Join one of three guilds on Green.
Show up to raid, literally just show up. Repeat 100-400 times.
Once you have top DKP among mages track hate for better chance of drop.
Don’t get fucked over by the guild when it drops.

[Toxigen]

Join one of three guilds on Green.
Show up to raid, literally just show up. Repeat 100-400 times.
Once you have top DKP among mages track hate for better chance of drop.
Don’t get fucked over by the guild when it drops.

[Balimon]

Join one of three guilds on Green.
Show up to raid, literally just show up. Repeat 100-400 times.
Once you have top DKP among mages track hate for better chance of drop.
Don’t get fucked over by the guild when it drops.

Essentially this, learning to track Hate and the PH's is the best way to get Magi kills, make sure you have the DKP when it finally does drop

[Obrae]

Well you need to camp in Hate to have a chance, people cheat it, server staff is aware, they remove threads. We caught the guy doing it multiple time in the act.

[Snaggles]

Really easy stuff = epic pet is the best
Tough stuff you aren’t pet tanking = focused water is the best
Very tough stuff you are raiding = Why did you summon a pet? Do you want to wipe us??

There. Saved you all that silly gathering. Go loot a water staff.

[enjchanter]

the epic pet can solo jacker with no help and that was game changing for me

hope that helps

[Troxx]

Doh wrong thread

[Tann]

Why did you summon a pet? Do you want to wipe us??

As a non-raiding pleb, why no pets in raids?

[PatChapp]

As a non-raiding pleb, why no pets in raids?

Depends on the raid, some places they tend to warp. Others they can cause level agro issues being so low

[Zarakk]

Nothing I have done on P1999 was as painful as getting the earth staff. Nothing took even a tenth the time I spent tracking, camping and negotiating with the guild to get help for mages on that quest.

And nothing felt as wonderful as finally getting it and summoning my first epic pet.

Three months later, I am still as happy as larry that I completed that quest and obtained the skittlestick. No item I will ever earn will give me that level of feeling of hard work resulting in accomplishment.

Did it change my EQ experience? Yes it did, and very much for the better.

YMMV.

[Crede]

59 focused air pet is a better tank tho? Oof.

[Toxigen]

As far as an hours spent / dkp / plat perspective...mage epic is probably the lowest bang for your buck. Its sad to put 1 million plat into a character whos best spell is COTH.

[loramin]

Depends on the raid, some places they tend to warp. Others they can cause level agro issues being so low

It's almost exclusively in ToV; Mage pets are welcome in most epic fights, in VP and ST, in all of the Planes, and against the old school dragons and gods (eg. Cazic and Tunare).

Sadly though there are a lot of raids in ToV, so it works out to Mages not being able to use their pets in something like half of all raids, just because (back in 2000) the EQ developers failed at creating paths in a single zone.

[Balimon]

They can be used to ToV more than people think or currently do. I get why ToV is a focus, but it's not the entire game. The epic is a huge upgrade for raiding because of its guaranteed level, sure a max level focused water pet does more DPS, but good luck getting a max summon every time you cast it.

People hating on the epic simply have never played a Mage before and after to understand the difference. Is it worth acquiring? That's something people need to decide for themselves because the cost is so great. For most folks it simply isn't.

[Snaggles]

I wouldnt say people are "hating on it". I just dont think it changes much of what a mage will do (kill geo's easier, farm droga faster?), it just makes the solo mage a much better package.

Pet wise, the epic is like a 500hp BMW where the water pet is a 500hp clapped-out 90's Mustang. If the Mustang will edge out the BMW at one thing it will suffer in 9 other categories. But, if you are comparing that one thing and its all that matters...sometimes the epic pet will get smoked.

I really love the mage and what it brings to the table. PvE casual content and raid content. It obviously has the best pets and the epic is amazing. If anything people hate on the class more than the epic, because they would all die to have an epic mage in their fleet.

[Ripqozko]

I wouldnt say people are "hating on it". I just dont think it changes much of what a mage will do (kill geo's easier, farm droga faster?), it just makes the solo mage a much better package.

Pet wise, the epic is like a 500hp BMW where the water pet is a 500hp clapped-out 90's Mustang. If the Mustang will edge out the BMW at one thing it will suffer in 9 other categories. But, if you are comparing that one thing and its all that matters...sometimes the epic pet will get smoked.

I really love the mage and what it brings to the table. PvE casual content and raid content. It obviously has the best pets and the epic is amazing. If anything people hate on the class more than the epic, because they would all die to have an epic mage in their fleet.

its definitely not hate, just most mages are cothing and DAing mobs away, your pet isnt helping you if you are pushing trash to exit in tov, yea there is other spots your pet can do things in raids, but tov is like 3/4ths the targets. Speaking as a mage main myself.

[Toxigen]

And believe me he definitely trained a lot of mobs one particular day.

[Balimon]

its definitely not hate, just most mages are cothing and DAing mobs away, your pet isnt helping you if you are pushing trash to exit in tov, yea there is other spots your pet can do things in raids, but tov is like 3/4ths the targets. Speaking as a mage main myself.

You're right, I'm not talking about using the pet on trash, why would you ruin your faction for that? Plus the constant CoTH's that are coming in. I'm talking about popping him out on bosses, which is alright on a lot of the encounters. The epic specifically doesn't cost any mana up front for the fight itself, since it's already summoned in the orb, it's an easy way to add some dps to the fight, and then /q out for the faction hit.

Pet's fine on: trips, doubles, Kriez, Fesh, Lady M, Aary, Eashen, Iki, Gozz, Telk. I haven't tried Dagarn because that's an awkward spot, but if you cleared the trash it would probably be fine. Koi probably okay but never tried it, Vyemm I would think not, and I keep the pet up as a battery on that fight anyway. Doze obviously not a good idea. Never used it on Vulak but I bet you could guard the pet where the melee's hide and just have him go in and out with them np. LTK probably not a good idea especially if people are training the trash around.

[Ripqozko]

You're right, I'm not talking about using the pet on trash, why would you ruin your faction for that? Plus the constant CoTH's that are coming in. I'm talking about popping him out on bosses, which is alright on a lot of the encounters. The epic specifically doesn't cost any mana up front for the fight itself, since it's already summoned in the orb, it's an easy way to add some dps to the fight, and then /q out for the faction hit.

Pet's fine on: trips, doubles, Kriez, Fesh, Lady M, Aary, Eashen, Iki, Gozz, Telk. I haven't tried Dagarn because that's an awkward spot, but if you cleared the trash it would probably be fine. Koi probably okay but never tried it, Vyemm I would think not, and I keep the pet up as a battery on that fight anyway. Doze obviously not a good idea. Never used it on Vulak but I bet you could guard the pet where the melee's hide and just have him go in and out with them np. LTK probably not a good idea especially if people are training the trash around.

You won't have time is what I'm saying, cause the trash will be following you around , not that you'll be killing it. Your epic pet is like half a rogue. There is better jobs for us. Can ya toss it on on some encounters sure but it's not making a huge difference.

Edit: I never said killing trash I said training trash

[Snaggles]

its definitely not hate, just most mages are cothing and DAing mobs away, your pet isnt helping you if you are pushing trash to exit in tov, yea there is other spots your pet can do things in raids, but tov is like 3/4ths the targets. Speaking as a mage main myself.

I only summon up a pet for stuff pulled to the zone for fun sake. Otherwise I'd just be cothing, rodding, and DA bombing. A summoned pet on a glimmer is world-class cringe. Just got my DA RW earring last night. Finally a quad mage :) Purdy pumped.

For general muck-around dps the pet isnt bad. On the basis that most players are pretty marginal lol.

[Ripqozko]

I only summon up a pet for stuff pulled to the zone for fun sake. Otherwise I'd just be cothing, rodding, and DA bombing. A summoned pet on a glimmer is world-class cringe. Just got my DA RW earring last night. Finally a quad mage :) Purdy pumped.

For general muck-around dps the pet isnt bad. On the basis that most players are pretty marginal lol.

hell yea grats man on quad mage status

[Balimon]

You won't have time is what I'm saying, cause the trash will be following you around , not that you'll be killing it. Your epic pet is like half a rogue. There is better jobs for us. Can ya toss it on on some encounters sure but it's not making a huge difference.

Edit: I never said killing trash I said training trash

Do you have any videos of the DA training I can link to for my.guide? Also I think blues meta is different than greens, or at least how green was last year. I think y'all train a lot more often

[Ripqozko]

Do you have any videos of the DA training I can link to for my.guide? Also I think blues meta is different than greens, or at least how green was last year. I think y'all train a lot more often

Nah I don’t have videos and ya the meta maybe different I don’t play on green, do y’all not DA things away for lord K or do y’all fight every single trash?

[enjchanter]

Literally all u do is hold w while DA
Cast DA ear
Hold w
click idol
Hold w
Click ring
Hold w
Recharge ring in box while running(impossible challenge)
Click ring

Auto run directions may vary

[Ripqozko]

Literally all u do is hold w while DA
Cast DA ear
Hold w
click idol
Hold w
Click ring
Hold w
Recharge ring in box while running(impossible challenge)
Click ring

Auto run directions may vary

Yup

[PatChapp]

Try hards will park another battery on a corpse in a big brain spot

[Toxigen]

Literally all u do is hold w while DA
Cast DA ear
Hold w
click idol
Hold w
Click ring
Hold w
Recharge ring in box while running(impossible challenge)
Click ring

Auto run directions may vary

and to think: this is a big ask for 80% of p99 players, never mind people that actually choose to play a mage

[Ripqozko]

and to think: this is a big ask for 80% of p99 players, never mind people that actually choose to play a mage

It’s literally the fun part, I understand the need for coths but at least DA is active and half fun for a mostly mundane class.

[enjchanter]

I got the DA ring then used it once to zone off some aggro and the never recharged it

[Balimon]

Nah I don’t have videos and ya the meta maybe different I don’t play on green, do y’all not DA things away for lord K or do y’all fight every single trash?

I guess it depends on the situation, generally guilds don't displace that much during an inner ring kill. Trash is usually cleared, at least the flurries. I know there are some shenanigans now with doubles and pulling Jorl without clearing anything with bone walking, and then training all the trash out so people can run into for lady N.

We used to see more stuff moved around before the GM's clarified training. Mostly the DA's were for Vulak engages, so people could run in from trips. Shrug, I dunno, it was around but it was never all the time. I think guilds like to sit on the tracks now, and wait for to be trained for concessions, but that's just my take :)

[Ripqozko]

I guess it depends on the situation, generally guilds don't displace that much during an inner ring kill. Trash is usually cleared, at least the flurries. I know there are some shenanigans now with doubles and pulling Jorl without clearing anything with bone walking, and then training all the trash out so people can run into for lady N.

We used to see more stuff moved around before the GM's clarified training. Mostly the DA's were for Vulak engages, so people could run in from trips. Shrug, I dunno, it was around but it was never all the time. I think guilds like to sit on the tracks now, and wait for to be trained for concessions, but that's just my take :)

Sounds like y’all don’t do tov like us that’s fine, DAing is lot more fun than just doing nothing tho

[Snaggles]

You can do other stuff with DA. Like survive when you normally wouldn’t, ramp tank as a mage or just train Sontalak around for about a minute.

Training your friends is the best adventure in EQ.

[Toxigen]

You can do other stuff with DA. Like survive when you normally wouldn’t, ramp tank as a mage or just train Sontalak around for about a minute.

Training your friends is the best adventure in EQ.

xs-qfCUTzx8

[Snaggles]

xs-qfCUTzx8

Nostalgia! :D

[Crede]

If we ever see custom content I think making the epic pet cast a 150 dmg root superior to the earth pets root would make things a bit more interesting.

[Jimjam]

It saves on keeping Malachites stocked, Amirite?

[silo32]

A summoned pet on a glimmer is world-class cringe.

Those who can't do, teach.

Op is a moon light raider (raids once every other month for a few hours?). Pets on glimmers. Summons epic pet and thinks they can use reclaim energy for mana battery. Doesn't da train, ever. Invested in writing a huge class guide because they got epic pet and wants to stay relevant. Up there with bottom tier mages like Tritina. Grain of salt.

[Toxigen]

casual raiders gonna casual raid

[Balimon]

Those who can't do, teach.

Op is a moon light raider (raids once every other month for a few hours?). Pets on glimmers. Summons epic pet and thinks they can use reclaim energy for mana battery. Doesn't da train, ever. Invested in writing a huge class guide because they got epic pet and wants to stay relevant. Up there with bottom tier mages like Tritina. Grain of salt.

Sounds like someone got rustled (also I'm not the OP!)

[Ripqozko]

Sounds like someone got rustled (also I'm not the OP!)

Not gonna blast ya like that other person but ya should do some DA training sometime, it's like the 1 active thing mages can do to be useful that's not coth.

[Freakish]

Let's just say I wouldn't sell my jbb at 60 for one.

[enjchanter]

You don't get extra Dkp for DA training btw so proceed with caution


And it your guild does give extra dkp for it, your guild may be dead soon

[Snaggles]

You don't get extra Dkp for DA training btw so proceed with caution


And it your guild does give extra dkp for it, your guild may be dead soon

You don’t always get bonus points for being good at your class. It just helps justify why you show up on that class instead of one of many rogues, clerics, or wizards. Besides not caring if you are pulling less weight (which many are fine with).

[enjchanter]

My elf paycheck is the same if I hero ball the encounter or if I cast 1 twitch in 3 hours on my necro so there's the data

[Toxigen]

You don’t always get bonus points for being good at your class. It just helps justify why you show up on that class instead of one of many rogues, clerics, or wizards. Besides not caring if you are pulling less weight (which many are fine with).

Not sure if theres such thing as too many rogues, clerics, or wizards tho.

[Snaggles]

Not sure if theres such thing as too many rogues, clerics, or wizards tho.

Every quad-DA mage pilot in our guild has a dps or cleric they could be playing instead. Sometimes you need the thing for the thing to even be possible. Even if that just means that pilot is helping for the points. The K in DKP is for “kill”.

[enjchanter]

I always love the idea that "just doing it for the points" is somehow a bad thing lol

I can do alot of things and I'll do exactly 0 of them for no points

I also love that the best way to earn dragon kill points is usually by killing an orc or kobold or a skeleton

[Snaggles]

Fine, show up and warm body. Nobody cares. Sorry you don’t get bonus points for basic tasks.

[Toxigen]

Fine, show up and warm body. Nobody cares. Sorry you don’t get bonus points for basic tasks.

He isn't talking about being a warm body.

Enji is the king of +Enji (scepter)

A raid cannot compete without clickies. If your guild isn't locking these camps down, your competition is. Far more valuable than your 7th enchanter just staring at walls buffing.

[enjchanter]

They just don't understand the gravity of my contributions

[Ripqozko]

They just don't understand the gravity of my contributions

Thank you for your service

[Bristlebaner]

Unfortunately, an epic mage is still many orders of magnitude weaker than an enchanter in tunnel gear.

[Snaggles]

Unfortunately, an epic mage is still many orders of magnitude weaker than an enchanter in tunnel gear.

So is every class.

[silo32]

So is every class.

Got ' em

[Troxx]

Unfortunately, an epic mage is still many orders of magnitude weaker than an enchanter in tunnel gear.

Yeah as another poster already pointed out, no other class is close to the power (many orders of magnitude) than an enchanter in tunnel gear.

Mages shine brightly in the dps role xp groups. Situationally they can do well enough in the dps department on raids where they can use their pet. Pet or otherwise they still have vital, though often unappreciated, roles to play on raids. The mage hate would be far less severe if we didn’t have a half dozen years of kunark followed by as many years locked into velious. 55 Mage alts are a dime a dozen, watering down the need severely for dedicated raid main mages.

If we had 6 months of kunark followed by 6 months of velious then on to kittens on the moon and then PoP … only the most dedicated players would be able to level up any character to maximum while raiding competitively … much less having even 1 other alt at a substantial level. In that case, any person who dedicated themselves to playing a critical class for raid success at a fast tempo of expansion release (cleric, necro, mage, warrior, rogue) would be much more appreciated.

I remember during Luclin on live most of our raid force being sub-60.

[Snaggles]

The best thing a DPS fan can do is download an parser. Outside raids and a few select players in grind groups (who actually try) you would be surprised how bad people are.

If you are killing blue cons a mage is on par with 90% of monks and rogues with a boring water pet. Far higher I’d you remember to account for the burst potential and damage shield.

[silo32]

A 54 mage with phinny focus staff and spamming burnt wood staff 333 dd clicky.... Can out dps every class in a full xp grind group but maybe a geared epic rouge... If velk boots, GG Just saying

[Ripqozko]

Inb4 dsm and root rotting

[enjchanter]

A 54 mage with phinny focus staff and spamming burnt wood staff 333 dd clicky.... Can out dps every class in a full xp grind group but maybe a geared epic rouge... If velk boots, GG Just saying

Not a level 60 mage spamming burnt newb staff

[silo32]

Not a level 60 mage spamming burnt newb staff

We're, talking your average kc/Seb/hol/velks pug all sub 60 just grinding XP like plebes. With a random ranger with swiftwind or a ragebringer. Not some 59 epic war in full SS.

Just random randos

Getting phinny staff and 54 water pet plus noob wood staff spamming naked full mana every pull is deepz

[enjchanter]

What about a 48 epic warrior

[silo32]

What about a 48 epic warrior

Check m8

[Toxigen]

A 54 mage with phinny focus staff and spamming burnt wood staff 333 dd clicky.... Can out dps every class in a full xp grind group but maybe a geared epic rouge... If velk boots, GG Just saying

Yeah but the tunnel geared enchanter brings that + everything else.

[Crede]

Yeah but the tunnel geared enchanter brings that + everything else.

Different flavors my dude. Not everyone wants to rock an enc and have to have people watch their pet for breaks. People are inherently lazy in this game. Mage for dps makes sense there. Still a solid ass class I’d take enc/mage with epic over cleric/enc depending on content a lot of times cleric just nukes anyway since enc is doing 95% of the work.

[enjchanter]

If I was duoing with a cleric and saw them nuke I'm disbanding group on the spot

Real

[Troxx]

Yeah but the tunnel geared enchanter brings that + everything else.

Depends on the zone. If we’re talking a scrub shit-camp like KC, I can out-dps a level 60 charming ench with my 60 mage. Pet potential there is “meh” at best. Moderate seb (crypt)? Maybe some small percentage of fights but the ench is expected to win with a hasted quad pet by a fair margin. Higher content? No way - ench pets are godly.

Honestly in class comparison discussion it’s best to exclude enchanters. We all know they are broken OP in classic-velious eq.

[Troxx]

If I was duoing with a cleric and saw them nuke I'm disbanding group on the spot

Real

If the alternative is they are sitting 100% mana and there was no risk of them failing at the primary duty?

Weird hill to die on man.

If I duo with my cleric with an enchanter (or trio with 2 of them), I’m frequently at 100% mana — multiple stuns/heals loaded and ready to tango.

[Toxigen]

If the alternative is they are sitting 100% mana and there was no risk of them failing at the primary duty?

Weird hill to die on man.

If I duo with my cleric with an enchanter (or trio with 2 of them), I’m frequently at 100% mana — multiple stuns/heals loaded and ready to tango.

nah they should be off pulling more mobs while the enc handles current pull / camp...they have 2 DAs for a reason

enji is right

[Troxx]

nah they should be off pulling more mobs while the enc handles current pull / camp...they have 2 DAs for a reason

enji is right

Touché

I concede :p

[Toxigen]

Touché

I concede :p

at least you didnt go DSM on my ass

[Troxx]

I’m a rational fella’

[enjchanter]

If the alternative is they are sitting 100% mana and there was no risk of them failing at the primary duty?

Weird hill to die on man.

If I duo with my cleric with an enchanter (or trio with 2 of them), I’m frequently at 100% mana — multiple stuns/heals loaded and ready to tango.

He's just showing me how much I didn't need him there in the first place and how he's wasting 50% of the profit

I rarely if ever offer to group up but if I do I normally just make it clear I'm not splitting the drops

[greatdane]

Having a free pet-summoning clicky available for emergencies is more impactful than the difference in power between level 59 pets and the epic one.

[Crede]

Was a lot more game changing if you were fortunate enough here to play here in kunark with the pre nerf luclin buffed epic pet and pre nerf donals bp.

[Ripqozko]

Pets are only good for training trash

[Zuranthium]

Pets do damage. Damage is good.