Knight vs Ranger dps

[Renault]

With the updated 2h weapon tables, are rangers still substantially ahead of knights once they get a Tuna sword or Palladius axe? It looks like most rangers are opting for 2hers as well but their ratios aren't as strong.

[Botten]

Rangers have a number of buffs that proc damage (and while knights do too they aren't equal)

Rangers offense is at 252 and knights are still at 225

Rangers 2H is 250 while I think knights are 225

While Knights and Rangers both have a fast casting melee spell Rangers get two (Call of Flame and Calefaction)

There maybe other things.

[Ripqozko]

With the updated 2h weapon tables, are rangers still substantially ahead of knights once they get a Tuna sword or Palladius axe? It looks like most rangers are opting for 2hers as well but their ratios aren't as strong.

Yea cek sword on ranger parses better then 1h, ranger can disc and do rogue dmg every 72min. Knight cant.

[Jimjam]

Rangers get an innate attack bonus starting at level 55 iirc.

[Snaggles]

On vindi my ranger (13/19 and 14/18) w/o avatar or AOB items but VoG and Focus did about 10% less than a Cek 2h ranger (63 vs 67). A 3 single 3 min parse is anecdotal but illustrative. It seems a coin toss in other content. A primal 2h pally is on average about 10% up as well. Fights, buffs, and luck varies so people rarely post parses that they eat dirt on. I’m all over the middle of the map (sometimes beating these folks) on average unless using a bfg, then further up the curve.

Even past the personal numbers an extra ranger is usually more helpful than a knight (unless they have a soulfire or are tanking). Attack buffs in 40 players is notable and a well timed bump can be invaluable. If you can offer solid performance and other perks tho it didn’t matter if knight if ranger.

[long.liam]

Rangers get an innate attack bonus starting at level 55 iirc.

Not sure if that's accurate. It could simply that a 55+ the Offensive skill cap increased for rangers. The only thing that Offense skill seems to do here is give small increase to attack power, 1 per offense skill and maybe increase the max melee dmg by a small amount. From What I know, the largest effect on DPS is Gear>Levels>Haste>Stats. Obviously, Melee always parse better than non-melee classes due to Double attack + Damage bonuses post 30. I don't think that the skills/stats has as large a effect on player DPS as all Gear though. I don't have access to a 60 Knight yet or I would parse it. I do have a 60 monk and 60 Ranger I can parse. If I have time later tomorrow, I will try to parse of both of them.

[sogundordor]

Nice thread OP!! I'd like to talk about it for a long time~
I have a ranger and my friend has a pally, we are in same guild so its easy to compare our dps in raid or small group...
Our dps are very close when we killing raid targets like vindi, thifling focuser (easy to parse melees stay close and didn't move at all)
Ranger wielding Meljeldin (best 2hs for ranger, best ratio 2hander for ranger is Shovel of the Harvest but i don't have it)
Pally wielding Tuna sword (best 2hander for knights)
We are close means sometimes ranger do more dmg sometimes pally do more

Do ranger dps was "substantially ahead of knights" before i come to p99?

When i was young (like 20 years ago), there are rumors about hybrids, they said knights trade off their dps to cast some spells so they can tank like a warrior but do less dmg, rangers trade off their tank ability for spells so they can do same dps as warrior but tank like shit, maybe it was true when lvl is capped at 50 ...

[long.liam]

Nice thread OP!! I'd like to talk about it for a long time~
I have a ranger and my friend has a pally, we are in same guild so its easy to compare our dps in raid or small group...
Our dps are very close when we killing raid targets like vindi, thifling focuser (easy to parse melees stay close and didn't move at all)
Ranger wielding Meljeldin (best 2hs for ranger, best ratio 2hander for ranger is Shovel of the Harvest but i don't have it)
Pally wielding Tuna sword (best 2hander for knights)
We are close means sometimes ranger do more dmg sometimes pally do more

Do ranger dps was "substantially ahead of knights" before i come to p99?

When i was young (like 20 years ago), there are rumors about hybrids, they said knights trade off their dps to cast some spells so they can tank like a warrior but do less dmg, rangers trade off their tank ability for spells so they can do same dps as warrior but tank like shit, maybe it was true when lvl is capped at 50 ...

It might been misunderstood at the time how/why things work on EQ. A lot of players had misconceptions back then about how the game mechanics worked. It may be that they saw that Knights did less dmg or parsed worse, but they may not have been accounting for fact that in groups Knights more often than not are required to Tank and they will spam spells a lot to hold aggro. A knight won't do melee damage while casting spells, so this would reduce their parsed DPS. Rangers on the other hand are more likely to have been put in a DPS roll which requires minimal spell use or even use of spells that do damage, IE Nukes, Dots.

[sogundordor]

It might been misunderstood at the time how/why things work on EQ. A lot of players had misconceptions back then about how the game mechanics worked. It may be that they saw that Knights did less dmg or parsed worse, but they may not have been accounting for fact that in groups Knights more often than not are required to Tank and they will spam spells a lot to hold aggro. A knight won't do melee damage while casting spells, so this would reduce their parsed DPS. Rangers on the other hand are more likely to have been put in a DPS roll which requires minimal spell use or even use of spells that do damage, IE Nukes, Dots.

Yes yes agree, its no good to direct compare knights dps, cos sometimes they went to trash tank, "protect chanters" they are not always doing dps when rangers are mainly doing dps or cast 1 or 2 jolt/cotp if asked
i'll try to find some log that is "no trash tanking no buffing mainly dpsing" when home ;):D

[Danth]

45/38 compared to a knight with 50/39 w/ 160 DD special represents a fairly substantial handicap for the ranger. That they do similar damage when the knight has a significantly better weapon illustrates the ranger's superior baseline. Be interesting to parse them with all other factors (buffs, weapons, et cetera) being identical so as to show how much class alone affects it.

Danth

[long.liam]

45/38 compared to a knight with 50/39 w/ 160 DD special represents a fairly substantial handicap for the ranger. That they do similar damage when the knight has a significantly better weapon illustrates the ranger's superior baseline. Be interesting to parse them with all other factors (buffs, weapons, et cetera) being identical so as to show how much class alone affects it.

Danth

I agree. In order make the test as accurate and precise as possible, it would be best to eliminate all the possible variables: level, haste, NPC level variance, spell casting, etc.; except for the Variable that you trying to test for, DPS. Ideally all the Classes would be the same level, same amount of haste, same strength, same weapon, same NPC. The only variable should be the class alone. That way you know for sure what each class is capable of.

[Trelaboon]

With the updated 2h weapon tables, are rangers still substantially ahead of knights once they get a Tuna sword or Palladius axe? It looks like most rangers are opting for 2hers as well but their ratios aren't as strong.

I’ve actually wondered about this recently. I have a Paladin with primal and ToV weapons (but no Palladius or Flamberge). I also have a Ranger with Nev main hand and epic offhand. Both with 40% haste.

Sometimes I kill Shady out of boredom, and I haven’t actually parsed it, but I feel like my Paladin kills him faster. I think it comes down to gear, but like you said, knights in general have better ratio weapons, so that’s gonna be similar even if both were BiS.

I’d like to do some actual parse testing to know for sure.

[sogundordor]

I have some funny parse from killing vindi, lets look at "damage per second" done by this paladin
1. my ranger is always in the log, wielding meljeldin and 98% haste
2. paladin is wielding tuna sword, i believe with haste buff, not sure with avatar or not (max hit 302)
3. i know hes mainly doing dps not other things
4. the table is in order of "DPS" not total dmg done not sdps
5. i believe rangers are "DPS" while knights are "NOT", so if i can find some sample of knight can do more dps than ranger which means "rangers are NOT substantially ahead of knights"

here we have:
kill no.1
https://phx02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4mKhmSzpAgSWvZ2AipP_y4U6tvPR28dSXaShQs_qxNU_iGNXI P-Aet5S618Sh3a8lWWzGpuWG3k-_CTw-k6lLRCj6HzRY79xggz00guvS_jCDU-xAvoT4iCRGWktUO6CbZ7FJtm2uJpNQOU_syjDAcBcYKY9jsxxg JUIoVlLkm8KIwq0XAh2XD6PAJoO2UFgiJ?width=3354&height=1496&cropmode=none
Pally #3 and i'm #6

kill no.2
https://phx02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4m7u9bS1qfMktH_r-O9YcgqVHmZI5K8Sfpb7bXaz70_wY3tqQ8f8at6OPYs3eExEwrU jFKk2NiLBgsXTXtP0b9yatqor1MLfVSrwiYGxrvFUeSBpVksnp QqPAFeLs8RCFWaMV3b7VnRdjLcM-ZjqUV4IUhxkJvMTI7TXuEkmgfgzQMoyaFY6HDSznrdMdp0t0c? width=3358&height=1504&cropmode=none
Pally #6 and i'm #9

kill no.3
https://phx02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4md4UOsliM-_QDTSW1HXRk69HoxQfVk_2tcn2C4hj3rTRugHkho1qskPKN9ir 6mYHx9FZQcl2HOu8-OHSc0unzOd7AbkNsGC5haiOMH_BJmzCchT9TR3r7gDVSJdb0in VQnKXASCBSw6T3z6HnwWQWkocRbHxzkSmhNkg17Gn39pVNmEHH 8lZRybx01dkK8vTb?width=3362&height=1500&cropmode=none
Pally #8 and i'm#7, ranger win this time!!!
I remember this fight because its after i got primal weapon, at this fight we both proc avatar at the early of fight, and i saw his dps is higher than me at the beginning, at last few second my dps finally over him and i ate a faction hit~

I believe knights can do quite good dps when they have the BIS weapon (tuna sword), and from the parse i can see knights dps is come from their superb ratio weapon which can overcome low hit rate(likely 8-10% difference lower than ranger)

When i have time maybe try to kill serval time of bloodmaw in GD, which is low lvl and high hp, maybe knights dps will give us more surprise hehe

[Stonewallx39]

From what I’ve parsed (mostly on HoT mobs) with very well geared knights and rangers it’s pretty comparable.

Just from a quality of life/feeling useful perspective knights have the added advantage of giving the raid more resilience as they can roll in to tank if one of the main tanks goes down (happens somewhat often on a long HoT grind) and off tank if a second mob aggros. All the while doing about ranger dps (with mostly gear/buffs accounting for differences).

[Trelaboon]

I have some funny parse from killing vindi, lets look at "damage per second" done by this paladin
1. my ranger is always in the log, wielding meljeldin and 98% haste
2. paladin is wielding tuna sword, i believe with haste buff, not sure with avatar or not (max hit 302)
3. i know hes mainly doing dps not other things
4. the table is in order of "DPS" not total dmg done not sdps
5. i believe rangers are "DPS" while knights are "NOT", so if i can find some sample of knight can do more dps than ranger which means "rangers are NOT substantially ahead of knights"

here we have:
kill no.1
https://phx02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4mKhmSzpAgSWvZ2AipP_y4U6tvPR28dSXaShQs_qxNU_iGNXI P-Aet5S618Sh3a8lWWzGpuWG3k-_CTw-k6lLRCj6HzRY79xggz00guvS_jCDU-xAvoT4iCRGWktUO6CbZ7FJtm2uJpNQOU_syjDAcBcYKY9jsxxg JUIoVlLkm8KIwq0XAh2XD6PAJoO2UFgiJ?width=3354&height=1496&cropmode=none
Pally #3 and i'm #6

kill no.2
https://phx02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4m7u9bS1qfMktH_r-O9YcgqVHmZI5K8Sfpb7bXaz70_wY3tqQ8f8at6OPYs3eExEwrU jFKk2NiLBgsXTXtP0b9yatqor1MLfVSrwiYGxrvFUeSBpVksnp QqPAFeLs8RCFWaMV3b7VnRdjLcM-ZjqUV4IUhxkJvMTI7TXuEkmgfgzQMoyaFY6HDSznrdMdp0t0c? width=3358&height=1504&cropmode=none
Pally #6 and i'm #9

kill no.3
https://phx02pap002files.storage.live.com/y4md4UOsliM-_QDTSW1HXRk69HoxQfVk_2tcn2C4hj3rTRugHkho1qskPKN9ir 6mYHx9FZQcl2HOu8-OHSc0unzOd7AbkNsGC5haiOMH_BJmzCchT9TR3r7gDVSJdb0in VQnKXASCBSw6T3z6HnwWQWkocRbHxzkSmhNkg17Gn39pVNmEHH 8lZRybx01dkK8vTb?width=3362&height=1500&cropmode=none
Pally #8 and i'm#7, ranger win this time!!!
I remember this fight because its after i got primal weapon, at this fight we both proc avatar at the early of fight, and i saw his dps is higher than me at the beginning, at last few second my dps finally over him and i ate a faction hit~

I believe knights can do quite good dps when they have the BIS weapon (tuna sword), and from the parse i can see knights dps is come from their superb ratio weapon which can overcome low hit rate(likely 8-10% difference lower than ranger)

When i have time maybe try to kill serval time of bloodmaw in GD, which is low lvl and high hp, maybe knights dps will give us more surprise hehe


Interesting, thanks for sharing. Have you compared your two hander vs equivalent duel wielding?

[Ripqozko]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327111&page=4
some my BFG parses

/GU Aaryonar in 437s, 415k @949 | Shoeshineboy 29892@(68 in 437s) | Phillip 24148@(56 in 431s) | Scian 23736@(54 in 437s) | Ripqozko 21916@(50 in 435s) | Lisson 20683@(47 in 434s) | Gatruk 20093@(46 in 430s) | Pulz 19567@(45 in 434s) | Enviee 18838@(43 in 433s) | Cattiebree 18281@(42 in 426s) | Simorgh 16666@(38 in 436s) | Satsugai 16042@(37 in 426s) | Choamsky 15151@(38 in 392s) | Kushnada 14183@(32 in 435s) | Joraah 13781@(31 in 435s) | Zogaguk 13327@(30 in 436s)

my last cek sword parse (right under rogue and abashi monk) above other monks

[Snaggles]

A tunare knight sword with damage bonus calculated is a 3.384 ratio.
A Meljeldin with damage bonus calculated is a 3.184 ratio.

It's a 6% better ratio.

At least in my experience high end DW is close to a Meljeldin (I usually am). With a BoF I expect it would be on par. The claw of lightning is nice but likely not needed to match the setup so really it's an either-or situation off one of the trips. Tunare or Vulak 2h's are a bit harder to secure but are (and should be) higher dps.

We did Dain last night. I started with DW and swapped to BFG with 8dmg arrows. Disc'ed for 2 mins and swapped back to the Silver Whip of Rage. It was a 6.5 min fight so the BFG meme-machine loses a bit of it's pizzazz, but I landed on #5 above a lot of monks. A Gharn Rock monk came in #9.

Shorter fights like crapper "can anyone help with ___?" a ranger with a disc can do really good numbers. Last Uulump with tolan arrows I did 29% more dps than a 60 rogue with an epic/winterfury combo. 131 second fight though so yea, pretty much 100% on disc.

[Ripqozko]

A tunare knight sword with damage bonus calculated is a 3.384 ratio.
A Meljeldin with damage bonus calculated is a 3.184 ratio.

It's a 6% better ratio.

At least in my experience high end DW is close to a Meljeldin (I usually am). With a BoF I expect it would be on par. The claw of lightning is nice but likely not needed to match the setup so really it's an either-or situation off one of the trips. Tunare or Vulak 2h's are a bit harder to secure but are (and should be) higher dps.

Kriezen flame parses under less high ac like KT/aow, baton better but not enough where meljeldin wouldn’t out dps in most situations.

[Naethyn]

Giants bane vs shovel

[Ripqozko]

Giants bane vs shovel

Idk I have shovel on pally, still prefer cek sword on ranger .

[Snaggles]

I expect they are very close. Shovel has more delay which isn’t bad for timing spells (full haste can still almost get a calefaction off, jolts are easy). Less ideal melee stats tho besides raw hps.

So much of this game is right place, right time. Even at the top there are subtle pros/cons to a lot of things.

[Jimjam]

I expect they are very close. Shovel has more delay which isn’t bad for timing spells (full haste can still almost get a calefaction off, jolts are easy). Less ideal melee stats tho besides raw hps.

So much of this game is right place, right time. Even at the top there are subtle pros/cons to a lot of things.

Bigger delay = better minimum hit too. Use a low attack class on a high ac mob you want to have that guaranteed damage!! (I guess?)

[Snaggles]

Bigger delay = better minimum hit too. Use a low attack class on a high ac mob you want to have that guaranteed damage!! (I guess?)

Per Lucy’s damage bonus table

50/43 = 37 bonus (.860 bonus/delay)
45/38 = 32 bonus (.842 bonus/delay)

I think this is optimizing to the point of nausea; even the cast/swing theory is. The better melee stats on the sword and not depriving a better class of the shovel (monk or tank) prob makes sense for a 2hs ranger. I don’t think anyone should be shamed for spending their points/picks though. It is a game in the end.

[Ripqozko]

Per Lucy’s damage bonus table

50/43 = 37 bonus (.860 bonus/delay)
45/38 = 32 bonus (.842 bonus/delay)

I think this is optimizing to the point of nausea; even the cast/swing theory is. The better melee stats on the sword and not depriving a better class of the shovel (monk or tank) prob makes sense for a 2hs ranger. I don’t think anyone should be shamed for spending their points/picks though. It is a game in the end.

Harder part of 2h build is having proper haste outside of epic offhand most would have. Easiest 41% haste is prob grey suede boots or Yeli and lot of guilds dont do those.

[Snaggles]

Harder part of 2h build is having proper haste outside of epic offhand most would have. Easiest 41% haste is prob grey suede boots or Yeli and lot of guilds dont do those.

Yea but can cap with an EC item and shiss. Just not sure how far that 20attack off VoG stretches. Like monks, looting a decent 2h seemsthe best path just since it keeps people from being tempted by odd dw combos.

Back to knights, its one of the reasons I think for casual raiders if they can pick up a Rocksmasher it's tough to beat. Pallies get a lot of benefit by being able to yaulp4 and the 41% goes great with VoG. Sk's do well with it too. Just overall a nice pickup that keeps you from ever "needing" to go to PoSky.

[Ripqozko]

Yea but can cap with an EC item and shiss. Just not sure how far that 20attack off VoG stretches. Like monks, looting a decent 2h seemsthe best path just since it keeps people from being tempted by odd dw combos.

Back to knights, its one of the reasons I think for casual raiders if they can pick up a Rocksmasher it's tough to beat. Pallies get a lot of benefit by being able to yaulp4 and the 41% goes great with VoG. Sk's do well with it too. Just overall a nice pickup that keeps you from ever "needing" to go to PoSky.

its more then 20attack tho, if ya dont have dont have the vog attack +attack loss from epic offhand, its quite a lot of attack missing to 2h. i dont mind 2h cause it comes out a head with proper 41% haste and very specific weapons. otherwise 1h prob would overall win from ease of use, ranger specific. Believe me i prefer 2h so not knocking it, i use it 99% of time (less KT)

[Snaggles]

Thanks,

Yea I didn’t put together that it was going to be such a drop. While some cek 2h rangers are still putting down solid numbers with a CoF every bit helps with the quest for BiS.

[Ripqozko]

Thanks,

Yea I didn’t put together that it was going to be such a drop. While some cek 2h rangers are still putting down solid numbers with a CoF every bit helps with the quest for BiS.

usually if you can do cek, you can get hosh boots tho to be fair, its not like VP is harder and draft.

[Jimjam]

its more then 20attack tho, if ya dont have dont have the vog attack +attack loss from epic offhand, its quite a lot of attack missing to 2h. i dont mind 2h cause it comes out a head with proper 41% haste and very specific weapons. otherwise 1h prob would overall win from ease of use, ranger specific. Believe me i prefer 2h so not knocking it, i use it 99% of time (less KT)

I got my ranger a tunare whip to switch out when earthcaller is going to be too spicy. I've not had a chance to really test it out properly yet.

Is it any good?

[Ripqozko]

I got my ranger a tunare whip to switch out when earthcaller is going to be too spicy. I've not had a chance to really test it out properly yet.

Is it any good?

2x dmg +11 / Delay for mainhand ratio. 30 +11 /21. 1.95 ratio. its ok but kriezen flame for instance is 2.05, baton around that too.

cek sword out dps it usually with proper gear out tho.

[Jimjam]

2x dmg +11 / Delay for mainhand ratio. 30 +11 /21. 1.95 ratio. its ok but kriezen flame for instance is 2.05, baton around that too.

cek sword out dps it usually with proper gear out tho.

Those are sweet weapons. They seem close enough a wash.

Seems the db just wins the kreizenns over.

So you're saying I should delevel to 4 to get max value out of it? :D

[Ripqozko]

Those are sweet weapons. They seem close enough a wash.

Seems the db just wins the kreizenns over.

So you're saying I should delevel to 4 to get max value out of it? :D

Cecily made a list of weapons previously , pretty much top end tov is around 2.0 or better (you want higher) thats why tunare is worse tech. I really enjoy 2h tho, even before the patch to give it damage bonus it was parsing higher for me then 1h.

[Toxigen]

Cecily made a list of weapons previously , pretty much top end tov is around 2.0 or better (you want higher) thats why tunare is worse tech. I really enjoy 2h tho, even before the patch to give it damage bonus it was parsing higher for me then 1h.

But is monk bis still gharns / fon?

Figured top 1 hander applying dmg bonus would be better on the high end raid targets.

[Ripqozko]

But is monk bis still gharns / fon?

Figured top 1 hander applying dmg bonus would be better on the high end raid targets.

i think top 1h for monk edges abashi, id rather still have abashi for similar dps +utility tho. Also some raid mobs have higher AC then others, i parsed near rogue with cek sword (parse earlier in thread) on aary, but KT i swapped to 1h cause it was worse.

[Cecily]

I'm rocking Baton + Kreizen + Yeli neck on Green. I think it's good. The machine gun lure 100 DD procs make me happy.

[Snaggles]

All these high end combos should be close. Fights and buffs vary. Even if we try to be objective we tend to favor the ones we did well on vs the ones we didn’t. I’ve been out damaged by a SBOZ.

Now if most raid fights were 30 minutes the scatter would smooth out and it would be easier to see trends. Until then it’s napkin math and trying to get the best you can and enjoying what you have.

I don’t think a Tunare whip is bad at all. It’s +8dps if the dot is rolling. It’s not a BoF (11% worse ratio, MH) but it’s at least putting up solid numbers.

[Jimjam]

I logged in to test it out. Was parked in Feerrott. Pulled Cynthia with nullify and she melted.

Found dark assassin, he was a but trickier. Had to root, heal up and switch to epic to land slow as he was beating me on %hp caused. After slow landed the whip caked him. The whip blew earth caller out the water and while not the stat pad of earthcaller didn’t feel like I lost too much stats by using it.

Maybe i’ll get a kreizenn or 2h in the future, but atm haste is provided by swiftwind. A bunch of ltk and hot gear seems to make my ranger capable enough at content I like to do with him. Having a full ntov, etc geared ranger must be pretty amazing!

[Ripqozko]

I logged in to test it out. Was parked in Feerrott. Pulled Cynthia with nullify and she melted.

Found dark assassin, he was a but trickier. Had to root, heal up and switch to epic to land slow as he was beating me on %hp caused. After slow landed the whip caked him. The whip blew earth caller out the water and while not the stat pad of earthcaller didn’t feel like I lost too much stats by using it.

Maybe i’ll get a kreizenn or 2h in the future, but atm haste is provided by swiftwind. A bunch of ltk and hot gear seems to make my ranger capable enough at content I like to do with him. Having a full ntov, etc geared ranger must be pretty amazing!

dont get me wrong that weapon is amazing and better then most would get, i was speaking strictly for number crunching so youd have a bracketed idea of where it ranks since ya ask. 1h is much easier to gear for, the attack and 40% haste of swiftwind makes life a lot easier to gear for, i personally like 2h but it does take lot more to do. Swiftwind is like 20k and bam you got an amazing offhand to cover forever. earthcaller is niche and used in places where theres no slower or need try early slow something otherwise when you are grinding its not worth praying for the proc. i always found it liked to proc when grinding when it didnt matter at end of fights.

[Toxigen]

basically just log on a cleric bot your guild needs you

[Snaggles]

DW is a bit easier with quick-swapping too. You can hover a tash stick, earthcaller or main weapon (and a BFG if you have it) depending on what you need.

EC loses less dps than a Swarmcaller. Swapping out from BFG to 2h is more clicks. It’s still totally viable and isn’t a test of reflexes, it’s just more work and a bit slower. The advantage to rolling around with a 2h is an easy swap to like an Earthshaker for bowing down Glimmers if you are feeling lazy.

[Ripqozko]

DW is a bit easier with quick-swapping too. You can hover a tash stick, earthcaller or main weapon (and a BFG if you have it) depending on what you need.

EC loses less dps than a Swarmcaller. Swapping out from BFG to 2h is more clicks. It’s still totally viable and isn’t a test of reflexes, it’s just more work and a bit slower. The advantage to rolling around with a 2h is an easy swap to like an Earthshaker for bowing down Glimmers if you are feeling lazy.

just take a bio break on glimmers, ezpz.

[Toxigen]

DW is a bit easier with quick-swapping too. You can hover a tash stick, earthcaller or main weapon (and a BFG if you have it) depending on what you need.

EC loses less dps than a Swarmcaller. Swapping out from BFG to 2h is more clicks. It’s still totally viable and isn’t a test of reflexes, it’s just more work and a bit slower. The advantage to rolling around with a 2h is an easy swap to like an Earthshaker for bowing down Glimmers if you are feeling lazy.

see, now this ranger gets it

earthcaller + tash stick til enc/sham slow = big brain

dps doesnt matter if your clerics go oom

[Snaggles]

We did jugs once when our sham had ISP issues. The monks and I just switched to tash sticks and back to EC. Sometimes we could get it slowed at like 80% health, other times it took a while. Over the course of the fight it saved a ton of cleric mana. It was a lot of fun.

Hybrids are rarely if ever “the best” but they should always be flexible. Gotta pull your weight somehow :)

[Toxigen]

We did jugs once when our sham had ISP issues. The monks and I just switched to tash sticks and back to EC. Sometimes we could get it slowed at like 80% health, other times it took a while. Over the course of the fight it saved a ton of cleric mana. It was a lot of fun.

Hybrids are rarely if ever “the best” but they should always be flexible. Gotta pull your weight somehow :)

its just those magical first few swing procs that'll make you go "oh fuck yeah best ranger p99"

i know the meta has changed and you dont kill a lot of flurries on the way to targets anymore...but same can still apply on any raid slowables...do those procs still rip aggro or are you safe to do it w/o worrying about blowing WS?

[Cecily]

My first thoughts were EC + tash stick would be nightmare agro at 100%.

[Snaggles]

Jolt as an aggro dump is pretty gross. In most cases it isnt needed with exception to BFG discing. As a counter to the EC or tash stick proc it's really solid and is basically a one-for-one trade. I just jolt when a proc goes off.

In hate I often roll with Call of Fire as well to help with stopping gaters/CH's. It too is a lot of threat and needs some jolts but I think is worth a slight drop in dps.

[Cecily]

Yeah I've noticed Call of Fire works great in Hate. I like dropping Calefactions right as they hit 20%, too. PoH one of the few raids I prefer to be on ranger over rogue.
Plane of Fear, too. Way more control over fights.

[Snaggles]

Yea Calefaction is really good. If it lands a full hit that's 180dps even if for a brief moment.

[Jimjam]

Yeah I've noticed Call of Fire works great in Hate. I like dropping Calefactions right as they hit 20%, too. PoH one of the few raids I prefer to be on ranger over rogue.
Plane of Fear, too. Way more control over fights.

Its a very exploratory zone, so it’s almost worth being a ranger just for bind sight. It’s nice for harmony to work there too. It’s lucky ranger interfaces in a fun way with a zone they may need to spend a lot of time in (their floor two armour isn’t terrible either!).

[Crede]

Have both classes, I think pallies are better on paper but rangers just more fun for various reasons highlighted already. Feel like a glass cannon with DS and a whopping 90% self haste. Pally gonna solo dungeons better but if I’m set on doing that I’ll just play my enc.

[Snaggles]

No doubt paladins and sk's at times have a better kit for taking and delivering hits.
Rangers are fragile but dynamic.

If I had to crawl seb solo to see if I could do it and couldnt take my torp sham I'd definitely go with the paladin over the ranger. I bet the ranger would make a better TikTok tho, lol.

[Jimjam]

High level paladin does have better srimech for dungeons.

[magnetaress]

Having seen parses ranjurs win hands down no contest.