Enchanter vs Shaman. Who is the better money maker?

[Encroaching Death]

I'm leaning towards Enchanter, but Shaman is probably much easier to play?

I want pros and cons (before I spend too much money on my Shaman alt)

Enchanter vs Shaman. Who is the better money maker?

[Toxigen]

Enchanter by far.

There are only a few solo targets that a shaman can do better.

[magnetaress]

Enchanter is easier.

Butt if u want to mindlessly grind plat go necro or mage.

(Or druid or wiz for port sell gate) butt those guys have much more limited farming spots.

[Andyman1022]

Enchanter isn't hard to play, just most people playing this game have HORRIBLE reaction time, which is a bit more required for not dieing solo on enc.

[Snaggles]

There is are a lot of posts on this topic.

Besides a few stunt kills that require a 60 shaman with every toy clicking for 15+ minutes why do you think they would be better than a class with non-restricted lull, charm, haste, and slow?

Do you want a less efficient class that’s easy or a much more efficient one that occasionally takes a dirt nap?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Enchanters are going to make more money. They have a lower initial investment, and have a large range of money camps they can do.

Shamans can make great money too, but you are at least 150k in debt by the time you hit 60 from Torpor, other spells, and Epic (unless you were lucky enough to get all that via drops).

Shamans also must be level 60 with Torpor to be able to camp the good stuff. I imagine an Enchanter under level 60 can still do some good camps, basically camps that don't need dictate.

The main benefit of a Shaman over an Enchanter is they are easier to play, and much harder to kill. So if you want to be lazier and still make good money, Shaman is a good choice.

Going to pull some numbers out of my butt, just a rough guesstimate.

A Shaman with Kael faction can easily make a minimum of 1-4k per day solo on average spending an hour killing WW Dragons and maybe doing a round of the two dwarves in Icewell keep that drop their heads for Coldain Boots/Gloves. You could make more if you got lucky.

An Enchanter is probably doing more like a minimum of 2-8k per day solo if they are doing money camps like Seahorse Belt, Chardok Revamp camps, etc. You could make more if you got lucky.

Both Enchanters and Shamans are popular classes when doing 3 player Fungi King groups, which can give you a ton of money if you get lucky on Fungi Tunic drops. At the end of the day you could make the equivalent money that an Enchanter could make as a Shaman if you really like Fungi King.

[Encroaching Death]

A Shaman with Kael faction can easily make a minimum of 1-4k per day solo on average spending an hour killing WW Dragons and maybe doing a round of the two dwarves in Icewell keep that drop their heads for Coldain Boots/Gloves. You could make more if you got lucky.

An Enchanter is probably doing more like a minimum of 2-8k per day solo if they are doing money camps like Seahorse Belt, Chardok Revamp camps, etc. You could make more if you got lucky.


Per DAY? Or did you mean like, per camp of about 30 mins - 1 hour?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Per DAY? Or did you mean like, per camp of about 30 mins - 1 hour?

Let me clarify. I am talking about averages. Obviously EQ has a lot of RnG, so you can get lucky and unlucky days.

Shamans can more easily do 1-4k per day on WW Dragons and the Coldain Boots/Hands because the drop rates (at least in my experience) are a bit more consistent. I have gotten unlucky streaks where I get less money since nothing drops, but that's rarer. This can be done in an hour because you can kill like 3-4 WW Dragons in a hour without waiting for repops.

For the Enchanter numbers, my assumption is you aren't going to get a good drop every day. But since the drops are typically selling for 10k or more (like Ring of Stealthy Travel or Seahorse Belt). If you get one drop every 2-3 days you end up averaging more like 2-8k per day. I say day because good items camps are a bit slower since you are waiting at least 30 mins per pop, where as you can kill four WW Dragons in an hour since there are at least four good, killable WW Dragons.

[Encroaching Death]

Let me clarify. I am talking about averages. Obviously EQ has a lot of RnG, so you can get lucky and unlucky days.

Shamans can more easily do 1-4k per day on WW Dragons and the Coldain Boots/Hands because the drop rates (at least in my experience) are a bit more consistent. I have gotten unlucky streaks where I get less money since nothing drops, but that's rarer. This can be done in an hour.

For the Enchanter numbers, my assumption is you aren't going to get a good drop every day. But since the drops are typically selling for 10k or more (like Ring of Stealthy Travel or Seahorse Belt). If you get one drop every 2-3 days you end up averaging more like 2-8k per day. I say day because good items camps are a bit slower since you are waiting at least 30 mins per pop.

I figured they'd make more than that.

I suppose it's a lot of feast or famine then.

I guess I had in my mind Enchanters farming like 16 Seahorse Belts a day, etc.

I might enjoy the more consistent farming probably.

Over the (Holiday) weekend I was making 10,000p per day from porting. But that's with having 7 - 9 tell windows crowding up your screen most of the time.

With the Necro I can only do about 600p per hour, but it's easy and relaxing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I figured they'd make more than that.

I suppose it's a lot of feast or famine then.

I guess I had in my mind Enchanters farming like 16 Seahorse Belts a day, etc.

I might enjoy the more consistent farming probably.

Over the (Holiday) weekend I was making 10,000p per day from porting. But that's with having 7 - 9 tell windows crowding up your screen most of the time.

With the Necro I can only do about 600p per hour, but it's easy and relaxing.

You certainly can make more, but yeah it depends on luck and time invested. I am sure if you are playing 8 hours a day, you are getting more drops. Getting 10kpp per day from porting must mean you were playing a lot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm not being very clear on days and hours.

3k per DAY via Coldain Boots/Gloves since the respawn times are long on those. Typically 1k+ per HOUR on WW Dragons depending on drops. So in an 8 hour session you could pull 10k on a Shaman. More if you get lucky and get the higher end drops, or a lot of head + item drops.

On an Enchanter if you are playing an 8 hour session, you could probably make 20-40k if you can get 2 stealthy travel ring or 2 seahorse belt drops. I have never done those camps, so I can't say how common the drops are. I think you could make more at Seahorse camp if you were super busy and also sold Neriad Shawl drops.

When I was saying "day" earlier, I was assuming a 1-2 hour play session.

Both are popular classes in Fungi King camp, which would be 15k per Tunic (or more depending on market) if you split it between 3 people.

[Encroaching Death]

I'm not being very clear on days and hours.

3k per DAY via Coldain Boots/Gloves since the respawn times are long on those. Typically 1k+ per HOUR on WW Dragons depending on drops. So in an 8 hour session you could pull 10k on a Shaman.

On an Enchanter if you are playing an 8 hour session, you could probably make 20-40k if you can get 2 stealthy travel ring or 2 seahorse belt drops. I have never done those camps, so I can't say how common the drops are.

When I was saying "day" earlier, I was assuming a 1-2 hour play session.

Ah okay, that makes sense. More in line with what I was thinking too.

Enchanter has never really interested me and I didn't exactly have a knee-slapping good time charming with my Necro or Druid, so I could imagine I wouldn't enjoy Enchanter.

My Shaman is somewhat fun, which is probably why I have a Shaman alt and not an Enchanter.

Maybe I should just play what I enjoy and accept being moderately poor.

[Danth]

Maybe I should just play what I enjoy and accept being moderately poor.

Keep the game fun and you'll do better in the long run than you will if you push hard doing something you dislike then burn out and quit. A million platinum hoard doesn't do you any good if you're too disgusted by the game to log on. In the long run, platinum gets used *mostly* for either obtaining removed items or creating twink alts. High-end equipment is mostly no-drop and obtained primarily via raiding. Adequate-quality middle tier equipment like Thurgadin armor is not hugely expensive. Lower end stuff like traditional leveling gear is outright cheap for the most part. If you aren't constantly spending your money on alt characters, it'll eventually accumulate. I've been "moderately poor" for my entire time on P1999 and it has not stopped me from doing everything I set out to do, and a lot more besides.

Look at my wife's shaman versus Shamwowi: His has much better equipment, but it's largely irrelevant in practice. They mostly do the same types of activities. She can solo the same WW dragons he can. Same for enchanters, the enchanter wearing 10K of low-end leveling gear is going to solo the vast majority of the same camps the enchanter in north temple veeshan gear will do.

Danth

[ScottBerta]

Enchanter by a mile. I have well geared 60 of both classes. Enchanter so much better.

[Snaggles]

I'd prob pick the class you want to play and figure out how to make plat with it later. Both are are good compared to say a knight...but an ench is just WAY better.

My first couple hundred thousand plat came from fine steel in HK. Two lvl 60's there plus a lot of alts. Just keep plugging away. Whether you sell fine steel, farm in chardok, velks (ench), droga (mage/monk/necro), etc over time if you stay committed you will make a lot of plat.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Keep the game fun and you'll do better in the long run than you will if you push hard doing something you dislike then burn out and quit. A million platinum hoard doesn't do you any good if you're too disgusted by the game to log on. In the long run, platinum gets used *mostly* for either obtaining removed items or creating twink alts. High-end equipment is mostly no-drop and obtained primarily via raiding. Adequate-quality middle tier equipment like Thurgadin armor is not hugely expensive. Lower end stuff like traditional leveling gear is outright cheap for the most part. If you aren't constantly spending your money on alt characters, it'll eventually accumulate. I've been "moderately poor" for my entire time on P1999 and it has not stopped me from doing everything I set out to do, and a lot more besides.


Yup. You want to earn plat so you can have fun. If you're not having fun grinding plat, and you are doing that most of the time, you are going to get bored.


Look at my wife's shaman versus Shamwowi: His has much better equipment, but it's largely irrelevant in practice. They mostly do the same types of activities. She can solo the same WW dragons he can. Same for enchanters, the enchanter wearing 10K of low-end leveling gear is going to solo the vast majority of the same camps the enchanter in north temple veeshan gear will do.

Danth

Agreed. Once you have Torpor, that is the biggest boost you will get on your Shaman. Most gear after that is only a very small bonus, other than clickies like Epic. For Shamans specifically, the best benefit to acquiring raid gear is the resistances. Since Shamans don't have any good way to interrupt spells, you want the best resistances possible to just tank the spell and resist it.

The alternative is to buy resistance gear in every slot and swap to it as needed, but non-raid resistance gear will generally drop your HP by hundreds of points, so you need to be more careful at keeping your HP levels at the right spot. It is also annoying/bag intensive.

But again, raid gear really isn't a requirement for anything a Torpor Shaman can do, it is more of a QoL thing. You can save bag space and be lazier on your playstyle, since you won't be punished as hard for mistakes or bad luck.

[Danth]

But again, raid gear really isn't a requirement for anything a Torpor Shaman can do, it is more of a QoL thing.

Good way of putting it. I expect your character should have more margin for error or more staying power if something goes bad. There are a probably a few places you might solo (maybe some stuff in chardok or some such) where we'd have to duo, but having one more person along at worst is hardly the end of the universe.

[Encroaching Death]

I grinded out enough cash to buy my Monk a Fungi Tunic, Haste item, and IFS/SoS/Ada Club, among other items.

I transferred it all over to my monk last night - fought a few mobs and barely noticed a difference.

I guess it's really only good for fresh, new characters.

But that was disappointing. Starting to get bored and I'm trying to find that new spark of joy in EQ.

This is about the point where I quit for a few months.

[Raj]

The real answer is any class that farms legacy items early enough on a new server. Also those (of any class) who spends his or her DKP on high value tradables and shamelessly sells DKP earned loot - or fairly, depending on if the guild policy or if the guild disintegrates etc..

Barring that, enchanter for sure over shaman if you dont mind dying occasionally and have some good friendships for all those rezzes or small groups or duos w a cleric. :cool:

Nparse + Gina make chantering alot easier on P99 even though neither is strictly necessary. :cool:

Stay strong my friends, and don't forget to have fun! :cool:

[Encroaching Death]

I'm thinking of playing an Enchanter.

Not because it's a money-maker, but because I've never played one before.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm thinking of playing an Enchanter.

Not because it's a money-maker, but because I've never played one before.

Enchanters do play different for sure. You got some of the taste with your necro since they can lull and charm, but Enchanters do get more tools than a Necro for control, and you aren't limited to Undead.

As for your Monk's solo-ability after getting those items, it does indeed depend on what level you are. I got a Fungi Tunic recently for a baby Monk, and it made levels 10-20 fly by since I basically never had to sit.

But yeah, once you start fighting mobs that are level 40+, they hit too hard for Fungi Tunic to work like it does when fighting mobs from 1-39. Fungi Tunic becomes a tool to reduce down time, rather than a crazy efficient damage soaker.

[magnetaress]

the highest kill rate goes to necros for the avg npc (sustained dps and self heals and regen and lich)

next enhanters they do have some downtime (and can die)

shms require a lot of work to come in 3rd

if you are just killing as many npc as possible in the shortest time.

[Trelaboon]

I'm leaning towards Enchanter, but Shaman is probably much easier to play?

I want pros and cons (before I spend too much money on my Shaman alt)

Enchanter vs Shaman. Who is the better money maker?

I have both at 60 and honestly can’t stand farming on my Shaman. I can’t stand the constant canni/torpor/dot play style and it’s way slower. Enchanter also doesn’t require a 50k spell in order to farm gear. You can basically farm anything with a basic tunnel gear setup and the only spell you want that’s semi expensive is Bedlam. I do all my farming on my Enchanter.

[Andyman1022]

Completely agree with Trebaloon

[Plumpys]

I'm thinking of playing an Enchanter.

Not because it's a money-maker, but because I've never played one before.

I never played one on live and finally made one as my 4th char on p99 and now main it. The versatility and the excitement are what did it for me.

[unsunghero]

Enchanter can be stressful when RNG not going your way. Having charm break 2-3 times in a row quickly on a very low blue con mob even at 250 cha can be annoying. Luckily these events can be semi rare

Enchanter needs lots of careful prep, and as someone else mentioned, fast reaction with the stuns and cc. Because without heals any significant hp loss = lots of downtime sitting in troll illusion

[Encroaching Death]

Enchanter can be stressful when RNG not going your way. Having charm break 2-3 times in a row quickly on a very low blue con mob even at 250 cha can be annoying. Luckily these events can be semi rare

Enchanter needs lots of careful prep, and as someone else mentioned, fast reaction with the stuns and cc. Because without heals any significant hp loss = lots of downtime sitting in troll illusion

This sounds like when I learned how to charm on my Necro in HS.

I hated it. I didn't like it.

It was cool to pull an entire room of like 6 mobs and chain charm and kill them only using like 20% of your mana.

But screw that mess. I couldn't imagine doing it without FD.

[Trexller]

enchanters have a much better time charming that druids or necros, of course ench charming is still alot of work, but its not nearly the headache that necros or druids will experience.

[Snaggles]

I have both at 60 and honestly can’t stand farming on my Shaman. I can’t stand the constant canni/torpor/dot play style and it’s way slower. Enchanter also doesn’t require a 50k spell in order to farm gear. You can basically farm anything with a basic tunnel gear setup and the only spell you want that’s semi expensive is Bedlam. I do all my farming on my Enchanter.

I have a 60 sham and 60 mage. Besides double-loot week I haven’t been to Chardok in over a year. I prefer to farm with the mage because it’s less annoying (if one can believe it).

No ench but also a 60 Druid. I think I’d rather gear it and play in Chardok tbh. Like you said the dot/torp/epic song and dance is just a painful ordeal.

I’d definitely put necro and enchanters above the sham. If you have a sham and like the class it’s ability to farm is nice…it’s just not the main perk of the class.

[Crede]

I have a 60 sham and 60 mage. Besides double-loot week I haven’t been to Chardok in over a year. I prefer to farm with the mage because it’s less annoying (if one can believe it).

No ench but also a 60 Druid. I think I’d rather gear it and play in Chardok tbh. Like you said the dot/torp/epic song and dance is just a painful ordeal.

I’d definitely put necro and enchanters above the sham. If you have a sham and like the class it’s ability to farm is nice…it’s just not the main perk of the class.

See the 400 page mage Vs shaman thread….shamans are better in 100% of scenarios bc they are a dps class, lawl.

[Encroaching Death]

I guess it depends on what you're farming.

If you're killing guards, I'd definitely use a Necro.

If you're after a specific item deep in a dungeon, Enchanter is probably best.

If you need to kill something like a dragon, Shaman with Torpor? I dunno.

Want to Powerlevel? Druid is probably best. Or Monk (always wanted to try that)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have a 60 sham and 60 mage. Besides double-loot week I haven’t been to Chardok in over a year. I prefer to farm with the mage because it’s less annoying (if one can believe it).

No ench but also a 60 Druid. I think I’d rather gear it and play in Chardok tbh. Like you said the dot/torp/epic song and dance is just a painful ordeal.

I’d definitely put necro and enchanters above the sham. If you have a sham and like the class it’s ability to farm is nice…it’s just not the main perk of the class.

Mages can certainly farm low level areas like Droga efficiently. If you don't mind the endless grind it will get you solid plat. That usually comes down to a personal preference of guaranteed pp per hour vs. camping items which are more hit/miss.

Shamans are quite good at farming a lot of items, and even grinding plat. It is indeed one of their perks, since they can solo very well. The question of which class to use when farming usually comes down to what characters you have. If you have a 60 Enchanter, a 60 Shaman, and a 60 Mage, you have more choices for picking the optimal (or lazy) class for the situation, depending on preference.

If you only have a 60 Shaman like myself, you don't have that option. I can farm plat quite efficiently on my Shaman at a lot of different camps. Even something like Droga isn't bad since you can just pull 9 mobs and root/rot them. That is around 135 DPS, closer to 150 DPS if you are also using your pet. A Mage with Epic pet is doing 80-90 DPS with the pet, with around 25 DPS from Epic Pet damage shield, and probably using a clickie like Burnt Wood Staff or Boots of Bladecalling to save mana. That is 90 DPS + 25 + 25-35 depending on the clickie, so 140-150 DPS. Depending on how many goblins the pet can tank simultaneously, you will get 25 extra DPS per goblin hitting. Since most Mage's don't have their Epic pet, this DPS number would be a bit lower, I just don't have any logs from other Mage pets at the moment to give exact numbers.

[Ripqozko]

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[Crede]

If you only have a 60 Shaman like myself, you don't have that option. I can farm plat quite efficiently on my Shaman at a lot of different camps. Even something like Droga isn't bad since you can just pull 9 mobs and root/rot them. That is around 135 DPS, closer to 150 DPS if you are also using your pet. A Mage with Epic pet is doing 80-90 DPS with the pet, with around 25 DPS from Epic Pet damage shield, and probably using a clickie like Burnt Wood Staff or Boots of Bladecalling to save mana. That is 90 DPS + 25 + 25-35 depending on the clickie, so 140-150 DPS. Depending on how many goblins the pet can tank simultaneously, you will get 25 extra DPS per goblin hitting. Since most Mage's don't have their Epic pet, this DPS number would be a bit lower, I just don't have any logs from other Mage pets at the moment to give exact numbers.

This is a really horrible example of napkin math. You aren't factoring in root casting time, canni time to regain root mana, and casting time on the epic.

For an example, Rooting & killing 9 mobs with 1 epic click each is around 193.5 seconds including casting times. That's 66 dps(12825 total epic damage). Then you'd have to go off and find other mobs to root, click epic,. And by the time you root rot a 10th mob, the first 1 will die. Before you get to the 11th cast off, the 2nd mob dies. The reality is you're doing 75-80ish dps when you factor in canni + pet + epic. A mage is easily doing around ~150.

There's no comparison here, I'm not sure why you think shaman dps = mage dps, when you've constantly been proved wrong time and time again.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This is a really horrible example of napkin math. You aren't factoring in root casting time, canni time to regain root mana, and casting time on the epic.

For an example, Rooting & killing 9 mobs with 1 epic click each is around 193.5 seconds including casting times. That's 66 dps(12825 total epic damage). Then you'd have to go off and find other mobs to root, click epic,. And by the time you root rot a 10th mob, the first 1 will die. Before you get to the 11th cast off, the 2nd mob dies. The reality is you're doing 75-80ish dps when you factor in canni + pet + epic. A mage is easily doing around ~150.

There's no comparison here, I'm not sure why you think shaman dps = mage dps, when you've constantly been proved wrong time and time again.

If you want to take "time to find mobs" into account, then Mages lose DPS too hehe. It also takes time for the Mage to run and find other mobs. It also takes time for Mages to manage their pet. You can't simply claim this for one class and not the other. Napkin math is there because I can't predict the precise play style of every player in P99, so mileage will always vary a bit:)

You can root the 9 mobs before you start applying the Epic clicks. So yes, you can have 135 DPS + Pet DPS once you get that rolling. It takes around 30 seconds to root all of those mobs using paralyzing earth, so yes, you are losing DPS if you want to take that time into account. But as I said before, most Mages don't have their Epic. The numbers I gave for Mages is using the EPIC PET. Not only do Mages probably have lower DPS by not having their epic pet, but you also need to take into account the time/mana it takes to chain cast pets and re-apply your damage shield, burnout, and maybe mask of mardu if you are using it.

The issue here is you have some weird idea that I am trying to say Shaman DPS = Mage DPS. What I am saying is Shamans can do a lot of DPS, and for some reason people don't believe it. Mage DPS is better at single target fights, there is no question. But when a Shaman can root/rot multiple targets, you are killing a lot faster than you think.

[Ripqozko]

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[Crede]

If you want to take "time to find mobs" into account, then Mages lose DPS too hehe. It also takes time for the Mage to run and find other mobs. It also takes time for Mages to manage their pet. You can't simply claim this for one class and not the other. Napkin math is there because I can't predict the precise play style of every player in P99, so mileage will always vary a bit:)

You can root the 9 mobs before you start applying the Epic clicks. So yes, you can have 135 DPS + Pet DPS once you get that rolling. It takes around 30 seconds to root all of those mobs using paralyzing earth, so yes, you are losing DPS if you want to take that time into account. But as I said before, most Mages don't have their Epic. The numbers I gave for Mages is using the EPIC PET. Not only do Mages probably have lower DPS by not having their epic pet, but you also need to take into account the time/mana it takes to chain cast pets and re-apply your damage shield, burnout, and maybe mask of mardu if you are using it.

The issue here is you have some weird idea that I am trying to say Shaman DPS = Mage DPS. What I am saying is Shamans can do a lot of DPS, and for some reason people don't believe it. Mage DPS is better at single target fights, there is no question. But when a Shaman can root/rot multiple targets, you are killing a lot faster than you think.

If you had 9 mobs already rooted, it would take you around 85 seconds to epic dot all 9 mobs. So it would take 85 seconds + 90 seconds to kill all 9 mobs. That is 12825 / 171 = 71.25 DPS. Factor in 30 seconds of rooting, 12825 / 201 = 64 DPS.

If you had 18 mobs already rooted. It would take you around 170 seconds to dot all of them. So 170 seconds + 90 seconds to kill all 18 mobs. 25650 / 260 = 99 DPS. If you want to factor in 60 seconds of rooting, 25650 / 290 = 88 DPS. That's being generous, you wont be able to root 18 mobs in 60 seconds.

We still haven't calculated in the multiple minutes to regain your mana it will take when you run OOM after like 30ish roots.

Epic has diminishing returns because its long casting time, there are only so many mobs you can keep epic dotted. You can't simply say it's 15 dps and multiply that by any number you want indefinitely. This is why shaman's typically only root rot about 4-5 at a time. It's extremely diminishing returns. I was being generous with shamans in my previous post. If we are taking away epic pets from mages, then in reality a shaman is probably doing around 60ish dps in droga, where a mage will have no problem maintaing 120ish dps.

At this point based on your previous response I can only assume you are incapable of understanding basic math, so I can no longer debate such matters with you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you had 9 mobs already rooted, it would take you around 85 seconds to epic dot all 9 mobs. So it would take 85 seconds + 90 seconds to kill all 9 mobs. That is 12825 / 171 = 71.25 DPS. Factor in 30 seconds of rooting, 12825 / 201 = 64 DPS.

If you had 18 mobs already rooted. It would take you around 175 seconds to dot all of them. So 170 seconds + 90 seconds to kill all 18 mobs. 25650 / 260 = 99 DPS. If you want to factor in 60 seconds of rooting, 25650 / 290 = 88 DPS. That's being generous, you wont be able to root 18 mobs in 60 seconds.

We still haven't calculated in the multiple minutes to regain your mana it will take when you room OOM after like 30ish roots.

Epic has diminishing returns because its long casting time, there are only so many mobs you can keep epic dotted. You can't simply say it's 15 dps and multiply that by any number you want indefinitely. This is why shaman's typically only root rot about 4-5 at a time. It's extremely diminishing returns. I was being generous with shamans in my previous post. If we are taking away epic pets from mages, then in reality a shaman is probably doing around 60ish dps in droga, where a mage will have no problem maintaing 120ish dps.

At this point based on your previous response I can only assume you are incapable of understanding basic math, so I can no longer debate such matters with you.

The problem here is you really want to "prove me wrong" and/or insult me (due to the previous thread), rather than understand what I am saying.

What you are talking about is trying to determine the average DPS over the duration of the fight.

Let's say each mob has 2000 HP. We are not going to include pull times into this, because that is quite varied across camps/players.

It takes me 30 seconds to apply all of the roots.

It takes me 81 seconds to apply 9 clicks of Epic, assuming perfect refresh.

The last monster to die will have their DoT started at 111 seconds into the fight. It will take 90 seconds for the DoTs to clear, but only 81 seconds to re-apply, so the last monster to die will have taken full damage and had their DoT re-applied by the 201 second mark. Since the DoT doesn't need to apply full damage to kill a mob with 2000 HP, the fight will take roughly another 66 seconds (11 ticks) for a total of 267 seconds. In that case, the DPS total is 18000 / 267 = 67 DPS. Pet DPS is around 15, so if you add that together it is more like 83 DPS. It will then take roughly 1 minute to Torpor/Canni back 900 mana from the roots.

The reason why I say 135 DPS as a short hand is because I am also doing the same thing for Mages with the 150 DPS, where I am putting the best possible DPS in a vacuum, instead of writing the longer explanation above, so people can get a rough estimate without doing a lot of reading. As you will see below, Mages also have lower DPS when applying additional factors.

As for a Non-Epic Mage, let's say their pet does 70 DPS (it's a rough estimate since Epic Pet's factually do 80-90 DPS). This is with Burnout and Mask of Mardu.

A Mage's damage shield does 33 Damage compared to the Epic Pet's 50 damage, so the DPS is roughly 16 (66% of the 25 DPS quoted above).

A Mage spamming Boots of Bladecalling is doing 35 DPS.

Combined that is 120 DPS in a vacuum.

However, this is not taking into account chain petting. Lets say you are chain petting every other mob. All level 60 pets cost 370 mana after specialization reduction and has a 10 second cast time. Cadeu of Flame is 155 mana and has a 4.5 second cast time. Burnout is 15 seconds on the pants clickie.

That means every other mob, you are spending a minimum of 30 seconds recasting the pet and re-appplying buffs. That is reducing the Boots of Bladecalling DPS by Half, as well as lowering your pet/DS dps. Realistically if you are chain petting every other mob, you are losing roughly 30 DPS on the second mob, so your average is more like 105 DPS. The mana cost is also 525, and if you are spamming Boots of Bladecalling you are not meditating. So realistically your DPS is going down further when taking into account med times.

In more precise terms, the DPS difference is closer to 83 vs 95 when taking into account the extra meditating a Mage needs to do because they can't sit down while spamming the Boots. The difference of 12 isn't really much different than the 135/150 number I was showing with Mages vs. Shamans. It's just a lot easier to say that instead of everything else I said just now:)

[Jimjam]

I suppose probably enchanter as they have a broader range of forms they can assume, so they can ensure their money maker matches their client's needs.

The exception is of course unless the client prefers a bear bottom.

[Danth]

The problem here is you really want to "prove me wrong" and/or insult me (due to the previous thread), rather than understand what I am saying.

What you are talking about is trying to determine the average DPS over the duration of the fight.

Let's say each mob has 2000 HP. We are not going to include pull times into this, because that is quite varied across camps/players.

It takes me 30 seconds to apply all of the roots.

It takes me 81 seconds to apply 9 clicks of Epic, assuming perfect refresh.

The last monster to die will have their DoT started at 111 seconds into the fight. It will take 90 seconds for the DoTs to clear, but only 81 seconds to re-apply, so the last monster to die will have taken full damage and had their DoT re-applied by the 201 second mark. Since the DoT doesn't need to apply full damage to kill a mob with 2000 HP, the fight will take roughly another 66 seconds (11 ticks) for a total of 267 seconds. In that case, the DPS total is 18000 / 267 = 67 DPS. Pet DPS is around 15, so if you add that together it is more like 83 DPS. It will then take roughly 1 minute to Torpor/Canni back 900 mana from the roots.

Three minute root duration means you're either re-applying some roots or tanking some goblins as the fight progresses.

I have never seen a shaman rooting 7-9 goblins at a time in Droga. I see magicians in there once in awhile. At some point the sheer hassle of a mode of gameplay becomes more nuisance than a zone is worth. The main reason to go to Droga in the first place is to be able to gain modest income for extremely low effort. I suspect the real choice between those two for Droga is mage-or-nothing because the typical shaman isn't going to bother doing all that. He'll do something that the magician can't like west wastes dragons instead.

With respect to the actual thread title, the answer is obviously enchanter, and I think absolutely all of us are in agreement on that point.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Three minute root duration means you're either re-applying some roots or tanking some goblins as the fight progresses.

I have never seen a shaman rooting 7-9 goblins at a time in Droga. I see magicians in there once in awhile. At some point the sheer hassle of a mode of gameplay becomes more nuisance than a zone is worth. The main reason to go to Droga in the first place is to be able to gain modest income for extremely low effort. I suspect the real choice between those two for Droga is mage-or-nothing because the typical shaman isn't going to bother doing all that. He'll do something that the magician can't like west wastes dragons instead.

With respect to the actual thread title, the answer is obviously enchanter, and I think absolutely all of us are in agreement on that point.

Danth

I've done it before. That's how I got my faction up in Chardok. I am not saying playing a Shaman is easier than playing a Mage in Droga. I am simply pointing out it is very doable, and not that slow.

Everybody is in agreement that Enchanter is the better money maker, and everybody is in agreement a Mage is much easier to play in Droga.

But not everybody has a level 60 Mage, Enchanter, and Shaman to choose between when farming. I myself only have the Shaman, and killing in Droga as a Shaman is fast enough to where it isn't worth my time getting a Mage to 60 just to save a bit of time/effort. Overall that would take longer.

[Danth]

Well yeah, have to use what's available. My own character is a shadow knight and it's the same type of situation: From time to time I'll solo stuff on it that wouldn't cross my mind to think about recommending or bringing up in a discussion of choosing a new character.
Wonder how my droga kill times compare. I've never timed it. (See above comment on my opinion of Droga--I only go there if I feel like being lazy in the first place, so I don't pay much attention). As a melee I'm not pulling 6+ at once but due to shroud of death and epic lifetaps, I don't have to stop, either. Bet it's similar. Off-topic, obviously, but interesting.

With respect to new characters, one of my big gripes with enchanter is it doesn't have a very good way of "taking it easy." It's too reliant on charm; the summoned pet can't be easily controlled. The Enchanter practically demands the player has a strong alternate character for when he wants an easy day. It's probably the strongest overall class, certainly the best money-maker, but I seldom think of it as a particularly good "only" character for a person due to its "high hassle ALL the time" kind of gameplay. Shaman can take it easy if it wants to.

Danth

[loramin]

With respect to the actual thread title, the answer is obviously enchanter, and I think absolutely all of us are in agreement on that point.

On P99, absolutely. Meanwhile, this (https://web.archive.org/web/20030429022648/http://eq.crgaming.com/playguides/VIEW.ASP?ID=3026) is what classic Enchanters were actually able to do ("in theory" :D)


PLAYER STRATEGY - ENCHANTER
A THEORYON SOLOING THE ARCH GHOUL MAGI - Livo, Terris-Thule
This isnt anywhere near complete, your welcome to rework this, adn remember this is in *THEORY*
beforehand, make sure your buffed with:
Adorning grace
Rune IV
Resist magic
Clarity

Another other buffs you want, just make sure your FM when the magi pops
recommended spells to be memmed:
Tashania
Gate
Clarity(you can refresh and unmem it before a spawn and replace it with shiftless deeds))
Rune IV
Color flux
Color shift
Color skew
Discordant mind

When the magi pops, you immediatly tash him (dont give me that) and stun him (hes most likely started a nuke) if you have shiftless deeds up, now is the time to cast it. Now basically, my theory works around you stunning him when he starts a nuke and using shiftless to keep the damage done to your pet down as low as possible. when the magi starts running low on health unless a volley of nukes if your manas good, but its good to knock his hp off fast so he doesnt run.
Im sure a lot of you have thought of this or similar strategies, but you wouldnt believe how many people havent considered this. this is just a rough outline on how it could be done, if your up to it go out and try it!

Strategy Submitted on: Wednesday, March 01, 2000

[Raj]

This is a really horrible example of napkin math. You aren't factoring in root casting time, canni time to regain root mana, and casting time on the epic.

For an example, Rooting & killing 9 mobs with 1 epic click each is around 193.5 seconds including casting times. That's 66 dps(12825 total epic damage). Then you'd have to go off and find other mobs to root, click epic,. And by the time you root rot a 10th mob, the first 1 will die. Before you get to the 11th cast off, the 2nd mob dies. The reality is you're doing 75-80ish dps when you factor in canni + pet + epic. A mage is easily doing around ~150.

There's no comparison here, I'm not sure why you think shaman dps = mage dps, when you've constantly been proved wrong time and time again.

DSM doesn't like to think or talk about these kinds of things! :cool:

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM doesn't like to think or talk about these kinds of things! :cool:

I already proved him wrong. He is assuming perfect DPS on a Mage while not assuming perfect DPS on a Shaman.

[Snaggles]

Sorry for opening Pandora’s Box.

Let’s just get one thing straight: There no “best” class because this is an imbalanced game. There are “better than at ___” classes, pretty much in every case.

I’ve farmed droga with my shaman. It’s sucks. I’ve burned through it with a non-epic mage, it’s way faster. Even summoning and not buffing a pet will go through a ton of goblins for 2 malachite while you sit back and med the mana back. They work differently but about the same as with with a good 60 necro. An epic mage is much faster from observation. A ToV monk is WAY faster but there are issues to that, namely mobility (no bind/gate). I picked a mage because it was easy, boringly easy. You can farm droga drunk and be just fine. Sell your stuff and let the 100% WR bags poof when you log off.

Sham vs Ench is Chardok isn’t fair. Any charm class can kill a PH in seconds and not take a faction hit. An enchanter can do multiple camps to a shamans select few. It’s not “fair” but it’s a fact.

Use what you got, love what you love. I understand that. I’m a ranger at heart. If I could clear the bag space I’d prob farm greens with my ranger. It wouldn’t make it good or even the best. That’s ok though. I’d have fun. Likewise an enchanter would have to be a fool to stick it out in Droga. Sure they would do ok I guess but they could be doing different camps for far more pp/hr and not playing third-fiddle to a monk three-hitting goblins dead and never stopping.

Ps: I know it’s anecdotal but for green farming my mage is the fastest class I have. 60 mage, sham, pal, druid, ranger. If it was faster in some weird way that involved juggling 13 spawns with PE and epic clicks I still would probably go with the mage. Sometimes you just need to kick back and click two buttons.

I also have a clicky robe, pants, and a burnt wood staff. I don’t often use them. The cast time sucks and I’d rather just afk and come back 5 mins later when FM for another 20 mins of mayhem.

[PL_Barton]

My epic mage can kill in Droga and get about 1k an hour. Not great but better than nothing. Shaman def have an easier time farming plat overall.

I'd say my Epic pet could out dps a shaman any day on a single mob even if I had to chain summon the 2nd pet.

[Vivitron]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

[sajbert]

Enchanter can hit the biggest cash prizes.

Enchanters are better at breaking into dungeons.

Enchanters are strictly better than shamans until they get Torpor and arguably require good gear as well. Thus until at least Kunark enchanters are strictly better. You don’t need to invest all that pp into your farming character either.

Shamans are not, despite what silly things DSM may say, good sustained DPS killers like a mage. This type of farming is typically risk free and doesn’t involve corpse runs and you don’t have to spend weeks in EC auctioning your goods (something that most never take into account when discussing pp/hr. However, it also means you have few or no AFK-breaks but gotta attend your computer all the time. Tedium…

IMO: Shamans are poor farming characters but great mains that can fuel much of their own progression. If you want to level a character to make money for other characters then make an enchanter.

[Snaggles]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

Rlaeil is a geared monk with a Facesmasher. He’s made over 1m pp in Droga. I expect there are other classes who can pace with one (rogues can assassinate, warriors with Vulak axe, etc). But high burst, self haste, and 6 min mend are tough to beat. Really grind will power is the most important thing…clocking in every day for that many hours isn’t fun, lol.

[PL_Barton]

Off the main topic but:

Of all the classes discussed but in Droga the Epic Mage has the highest ROI. All other classes involve a lot more effort.

I just walk into a room, sic the pet on the closest and then tab through the rest. Wait for him to finish, stand up and loot. Next room. Only things to watch is your burnout timer and the pets health if you get more than 4 mobs at once, even then its a easy chain summon.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Shamans are not, despite what silly things DSM may say, good sustained DPS killers like a mage.

What I am saying is not silly. I think people just don't really take into account the other factors that go in to playing Everquest. I'll admit that I often try and give the quick explanation (which isn't fully detailed), and people don't end up reading the longer ones when I miss something in the quick explaination.

Let me try a simpler example. For the life of me I cannot find a lot of Mage videos. Here is a video of a mage killing Oosa Shadowthumper:

https://youtu.be/jhm9K-ePJAk?t=372

It takes him from 6:12 to 7:38 to kill the mob. He is spending 175 Mana on a single Scars of Sigil, 300 Mana on Vocarate: Earth, 155 mana on Cadeau of Flame, and 150 mana on Burnout IV.

Here is a log of me killing the same mob with just what a level 56 Shaman would have spell wise. I am not using Epic, just JBB. I made a video too if people really want to see it:


[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper says, 'Heretic! Thou shalt feel my magic scorn!'
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper bashes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Lekn tells you, 'Attacking Oosa Shadowthumper Master.'
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] You begin casting Turgur's Insects.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper parries!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper's magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:07 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:07 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:07 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper yawns.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] The maelstrom fades away.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] You are enveloped in a swirling maelstrom.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] Petel tells the guild, 'same'
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:11 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:11 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:11 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper bashes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:12 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 13 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:12 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper's veins have been filled with deadly poison.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 45 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:15 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:15 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:15 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:17 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:17 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:17 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You resist the Heat Blood spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You resist the VampEmbraceShadow spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 108 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper parries!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:21 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:21 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:21 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 26 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You resist the Disease Cloud spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:26 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:26 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:26 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 79 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper dodges!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You resist the Shroud of Hate spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:33 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:34 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:34 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 49 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:34 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 49 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:35 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 98 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:38 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:39 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:39 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 24 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You resist the Shadow Vortex spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper bashes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] Lekn kicks Oosa Shadowthumper for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 26 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] Your spell is interrupted.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You resist the Heart Flutter spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 70 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 33 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You resist the Disease Cloud spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 33 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:07 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 13 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:07 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:07 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:09 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:09 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:09 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:10 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:10 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:11 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:13 2023] Your spell is interrupted.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 23 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn judges you amiably -- You could probably win this fight.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 43 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:16 2023] You were hit by non-melee for 4 damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:16 2023] YOU were injured by falling.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:20 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 41 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:20 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 28 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:22 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:22 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 23 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:23 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] You have slain Oosa Shadowthumper!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] Your faction standing with NeriakTrolls could not possibly get any worse.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] You gain experience!!


It took my Shaman from 07:05:03 to 07:06:25. Time-wise, the kill speeds are basically identical (1:28 vs 1:22). From a DPS perspective, that means a 56 Shaman can keep up with a 56 Mage. How is the sustain?

The Mage will spend 780 mana per kill, which means it takes almost 4 minutes to fully med back the mana.

The Shaman will spend 675 mana per kill on Turgur's Insects + Bane of Nife. The mob did 487 damage to me, and the pet can eat the HT. If you factor in the initial cost of the pet + 4 regrowths, that is 1900 mana over an hour (assuming no pet deaths), which would add a cost of 32 mana per minute. So basically 730 mana and 500 damage per kill. That would take closer to 4 minutes to meditate/regenerate back.

As you can see, a level 56 Shaman could keep up with a level 56 Mage when fighting mobs of similar stats with JBB, Spirit of Howler, Bane of Nife, and Turgurs Insects. Obviously at level 60 Mages get stronger pets, and Droga mobs are lower level than Oosa, but honestly people wouldn't even believe a level 56 Shaman could keep up DPS-wise with a Mage if they didn't see the numbers.

Unfortunately I simply don't have any raw data from a Mage in Droga to get exact kill speeds per hour. When grinding out greens you are looking at kills per hour. A 60 Shaman with Torpor and Epic is going to be able to kill and move more often than a Mage since they don't have to Med, albeit at a slower speed. I would be curious to know how many kills per hour a Mage can get (without Epic since it is just really hard to get). Then I can do the same on my Shaman and we can get a better picture of the actual differences. I am pretty certain an Epic Pet could chew through Droga way faster since they don't have to backstab, but solo Mage DPS without Epic is lower since you can't backstab.

[Ripqozko]

What I am saying is not silly. I think people just don't really take into account the other factors that go in to playing Everquest. I'll admit that I often try and give the quick explanation (which isn't fully detailed), and people don't end up reading the longer ones when I miss something in the quick explaination.

Let me try a simpler example. For the life of me I cannot find a lot of Mage videos. Here is a video of a mage killing Oosa Shadowthumper:

https://youtu.be/jhm9K-ePJAk?t=372

It takes him from 6:12 to 7:38 to kill the mob. He is spending 175 Mana on a single Scars of Sigil, 300 Mana on Vocarate: Earth, 155 mana on Cadeau of Flame, and 150 mana on Burnout IV.

Here is a log of me killing the same mob with just what a level 56 Shaman would have spell wise. I am not using Epic, just JBB. I made a video too if people really want to see it:


[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper says, 'Heretic! Thou shalt feel my magic scorn!'
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper bashes YOU for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Lekn tells you, 'Attacking Oosa Shadowthumper Master.'
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:03 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] You begin casting Turgur's Insects.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper parries!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:04 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper's magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:07 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:07 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:07 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper yawns.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] The maelstrom fades away.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] You are enveloped in a swirling maelstrom.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:08 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:09 2023] Petel tells the guild, 'same'
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:11 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:11 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:11 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper bashes YOU for 27 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:12 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 13 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:12 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper's veins have been filled with deadly poison.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 45 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:14 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:15 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:15 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:15 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:17 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:17 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:17 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You resist the Heat Blood spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You resist the VampEmbraceShadow spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 108 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:18 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper parries!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:19 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:20 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:21 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:21 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:21 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 26 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:22 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:23 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You resist the Disease Cloud spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:24 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:25 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:26 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:26 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:26 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 79 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:27 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but Oosa Shadowthumper dodges!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:28 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:29 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You resist the Shroud of Hate spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:30 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:31 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:32 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:33 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:34 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:34 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 49 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:34 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 49 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:35 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 15 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:37 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 98 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:38 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:39 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:39 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 24 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You resist the Shadow Vortex spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:40 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:41 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper bashes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:42 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] Lekn kicks Oosa Shadowthumper for 16 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:43 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:44 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 26 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:45 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:46 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:47 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] Your spell is interrupted.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:48 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You resist the Heart Flutter spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 70 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was tormented.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper punches YOU for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:49 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:50 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:51 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 33 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:52 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:53 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You resist the Disease Cloud spell!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:54 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:55 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:56 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:57 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:58 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] Lekn tries to bash Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:05:59 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:00 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:01 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:02 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 33 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:05 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 18 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:07 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 13 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:07 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:07 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 20 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:09 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:09 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:09 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:10 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:10 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:11 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] You can't use that command right now...
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:12 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 47 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:13 2023] Your spell is interrupted.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 23 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn judges you amiably -- You could probably win this fight.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 43 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:15 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:16 2023] You were hit by non-melee for 4 damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:16 2023] YOU were injured by falling.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] You begin casting Winter's Roar.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Your Jaundiced Bone Bracer begins to glow.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:17 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:20 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 41 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:20 2023] Lekn bites Oosa Shadowthumper for 28 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:22 2023] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:22 2023] Lekn bashes Oosa Shadowthumper for 23 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:23 2023] Lekn tries to bite Oosa Shadowthumper, but misses!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper was hit by non-melee for 263 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] Oosa Shadowthumper staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] You have slain Oosa Shadowthumper!
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] Your faction standing with NeriakTrolls could not possibly get any worse.
[Sat Jan 07 07:06:25 2023] You gain experience!!


It took my Shaman from 07:05:03 to 07:06:25. Time-wise, the kill speeds are basically identical (1:28 vs 1:22). From a DPS perspective, that means a 56 Shaman can keep up with a 56 Mage. How is the sustain?

The Mage will spend 780 mana per kill, which means it takes almost 4 minutes to fully med back the mana.

The Shaman will spend 675 mana per kill on Turgur's Insects + Bane of Nife. The mob did 487 damage to me, and the pet can eat the HT. If you factor in the initial cost of the pet + 4 regrowths, that is 1900 mana over an hour (assuming no pet deaths), which would add a cost of 32 mana per minute. So basically 730 mana and 500 damage per kill. That would take closer to 4 minutes to meditate/regenerate back.

As you can see, a level 56 Shaman could keep up with a level 56 Mage when fighting mobs of similar stats with JBB, Spirit of Howler, Bane of Nife, and Turgurs Insects. Obviously at level 60 Mages get stronger pets, and Droga mobs are lower level than Oosa, but honestly people wouldn't even believe a level 56 Shaman could keep up DPS-wise with a Mage if they didn't see the numbers.

Unfortunately I simply don't have any raw data from a Mage in Droga to get exact kill speeds per hour. When grinding out greens you are looking at kills per hour. A 60 Shaman with Torpor and Epic is going to be able to kill and move more often than a Mage since they don't have to Med, albeit at a slower speed. I would be curious to know how many kills per hour a Mage can get (without Epic since it is just really hard to get). Then I can do the same on my Shaman and we can get a better picture of the actual differences.

Ah shit, here we go again.

[Crede]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

I’d say an abashi monk would be the fastest followed by an epic mage with velk boots.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I’d say an abashi monk would be the fastest followed by an epic mage with velk boots.

I'd agree with that assesment. I would be curious to know if the stun from the Epic Pet would give it a bit of an edge over the monk, since many goblins do heal, which slows you down.

[Castle2.0]

In more precise terms, the DPS difference is closer to 83 vs 95 when taking into account the extra meditating a Mage needs to do because they can't sit down while spamming the Boots.

Hahaha, guys, my fellow autist number cruncher doesn't know you CAN sit while casting the boots! Just make sure you stand before it's done casting ;)

[Snaggles]

OP, do you have a 60 necro?

Why not try farming Droga and factioning up? At that point try a few camps.

I mainly mentioned mowing down greens as that is one path to make plat and pet classes do well there. Mages can’t really put down tough targets but necros can.

Unless you want to make a sham for more group fun or an ench for that or solo superiority, necros can do very well. Charm, fear, dot rot. Tank/tap. So many options.

[PatChapp]

Hahaha, guys, my fellow autist number cruncher doesn't know you CAN sit while casting the boots! Just make sure you stand before it's done casting ;)

They got rid of that on green months ago,is it still possible on blue?

[Castle2.0]

They got rid of that on green months ago,is it still possible on blue?

No idea, this game is a memory to me. I didn't know dragons were rooted or all the other crazy stuff they've done.

[Toxigen]

Ah shit, here we go again.

[Vexenu]

Off the main topic but:

Of all the classes discussed but in Droga the Epic Mage has the highest ROI. All other classes involve a lot more effort.

I just walk into a room, sic the pet on the closest and then tab through the rest. Wait for him to finish, stand up and loot. Next room. Only things to watch is your burnout timer and the pets health if you get more than 4 mobs at once, even then its a easy chain summon.

The importance of this fact cannot be overstated if you're talking about farming something like Droga regularly for hours at a time. The Mage is just clicking two buttons in less than half a second (target nearest, pet attack) to kill a mob. No long cast times, no running around meleeing. The sheer ease with which the Mage farms greens make them far superior in this niche than every other class, even if a few classes can hang with them in terms of kill speed.

[ya.dingus]

What are warriors and shadow knights good at making money at?

[ya.dingus]

The importance of this fact cannot be overstated if you're talking about farming something like Droga regularly for hours at a time. The Mage is just clicking two buttons in less than half a second (target nearest, pet attack) to kill a mob. No long cast times, no running around meleeing. The sheer ease with which the Mage farms greens make them far superior in this niche than every other class, even if a few classes can hang with them in terms of kill speed.

Necro pet good enough to do that too tho?

Or is it slightly too weak?

[PatChapp]

Necro pet good enough to do that too tho?

Or is it slightly too weak?

Necros farm droga fine, pet isn't as tough but necro heals and whatnot make up for it.
On my mage I just resummon when they get low. I would be surprised if they're even 10% slower.

[Jimjam]

The importance of this fact cannot be overstated if you're talking about farming something like Droga regularly for hours at a time. The Mage is just clicking two buttons in less than half a second (target nearest, pet attack) to kill a mob. No long cast times, no running around meleeing. The sheer ease with which the Mage farms greens make them far superior in this niche than every other class, even if a few classes can hang with them in terms of kill speed.

You can half button presses by binding the target nearest npc key to a macro that has a small delay before issuing /pet attack.

[loramin]

What are warriors and shadow knights good at making money at?

Things that need to be duo-ed or trio-ed.

[Toxigen]

What are warriors and shadow knights good at making money at?

soak dkp and buy droppable raid loot

[Ghost of Starman]

soak dkp and buy droppable raid loot

The best way to make money TBH for everyone except maybe ENC.

[Toxigen]

The best way to make money TBH for everyone except maybe ENC.

+1 scepter (lol)

[7thGate]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

I am curious how fast Rogues can go here. Droga is highest plat/hour I've found for soloing, even without the goblin skins market, but having to walk to sell hurts a lot. Jayya also doesn't have the right gear due to slow self healing; I get slowed a lot recovering from damage shield damage with BP clicks. Ideally I would need a fungi, Mrylokar Dagger, Ring 10 for sustained healing and higher AC/MR gear to resist harmtouch/more melee damage resistance.

Assassinate and strafe backstabbing on casters does make the actual kills relatively fast but the gear requirements to even try competing with a naked mage would be enormous.

[7thGate]

For real-time spent farming, I wonder if a big race warrior with weighted axe could do Droga by kiting the whole dungeon to exit, Furious discing, then zoning if there is stuff left alive. Average Riposte damage in 9 seconds with weighted axe is close to goblin HP, I think. Might be interesting to try and see if there's a sweet spot or if they're just a bit too strong/the casters get you. If you kite for at least 7 minutes all the damage shields will be down as well.

Hour long recharge on the disc might make it bad even if you can fill your whole bags in 15 minutes, but it gives a natural time to go sell, so maybe?

[Toxigen]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

I mean its monk if uber-geared but no BiS monk is farming Droga.

Epic mage, swarming bard otherwise.

[Jimjam]

For real-time spent farming, I wonder if a big race warrior with weighted axe could do Droga by kiting the whole dungeon to exit, Furious discing, then zoning if there is stuff left alive. Average Riposte damage in 9 seconds with weighted axe is close to goblin HP, I think. Might be interesting to try and see if there's a sweet spot or if they're just a bit too strong/the casters get you. If you kite for at least 7 minutes all the damage shields will be down as well.

Hour long recharge on the disc might make it bad even if you can fill your whole bags in 15 minutes, but it gives a natural time to go sell, so maybe?

I used to solo huuuuge chunks of the hole on vox with a 70 warrior with a 70/70 axe.

Basically pull all the ghost tower, ball them up, corner up, hit riposte and rampage. Was a few aa per pull. I think your idea may have merit.

[magnetaress]

Mages don't have to worry about channeling breaks so much.

Best duo is someone with root and someone with a big pet.

The lazy version is mage and cleric. Cleric can pull and clear agro. And if high elf can with just clickies. This is quite literally the powerfulest character in this game.

[Raj]

Mages don't have to worry about channeling breaks so much.

....And if high elf can with just clickies. This is quite literally the powerfulest character in this game.

They do make quite the impressive cleric or paladin, right? Starting out so beautiful with that BIS Charisma? :cool:

[strongNpretty]

Enchanter is easier.

Butt if u want to mindlessly grind plat go necro or mage.

(Or druid or wiz for port sell gate) butt those guys have much more limited farming spots.

Yeah, take Druins in Sro for instance.. That guy.... Is limited as fuck....

[Vivitron]

I’d say an abashi monk would be the fastest followed by an epic mage with velk boots.

If I'm hurrying I can kill roughly 3 goblins per minute on my bard. The velks boots are a 17 second click; if they have time to click it on every goblin I don't expect them to outpace me.

I don't usually mind the high activity of bard killing but getting locked-in to playing for multiple minutes at a time is annoying.

I am curious how fast Rogues can go here. Droga is highest plat/hour I've found for soloing, even without the goblin skins market, but having to walk to sell hurts a lot. Jayya also doesn't have the right gear due to slow self healing; I get slowed a lot recovering from damage shield damage with BP clicks. Ideally I would need a fungi, Mrylokar Dagger, Ring 10 for sustained healing and higher AC/MR gear to resist harmtouch/more melee damage resistance.

Assassinate and strafe backstabbing on casters does make the actual kills relatively fast but the gear requirements to even try competing with a naked mage would be enormous.

Yeah, it's too bad there are no fair vendors that are easy to get to. The suggestion to bind a druid nearby and drop transfer seems good for those with an extra druid.

[Gustoo]

For real-time spent farming, I wonder if a big race warrior with weighted axe could do Droga by kiting the whole dungeon to exit, Furious discing, then zoning if there is stuff left alive. Average Riposte damage in 9 seconds with weighted axe is close to goblin HP, I think. Might be interesting to try and see if there's a sweet spot or if they're just a bit too strong/the casters get you. If you kite for at least 7 minutes all the damage shields will be down as well.

Hour long recharge on the disc might make it bad even if you can fill your whole bags in 15 minutes, but it gives a natural time to go sell, so maybe?

seems like pro level theorycraft here I would love to hear someone trying but I don't think I will have the chance this lifetime to max level a warrior and get him geared out.

I think I've got it in me to level up 1 more guy if red 2.0 comes out but otherwise I don't know. Thats why I've always liked item loot pvp at low levels because you can jump into meaningful combat with players without grinding much at all.

[WokeCat]

When ppl say shaman is easier, idk how I feel about that

My enchanter was the easiest experience I’ve ever had playing p99
It felt like I was playing the game on easy mode or with cheat codes

Everyone was my best friend and I never had bad groups because by virtue of being a good enchanter, I made the groups good by charming OP mobs and basically keeping everything CC’d

On my shaman it feels like getting a good group can be challenging, and I’ve almost never had an enchanter in my group, thus making the grouping experience much harder, and quite frankly, it’s exhausting af to play a shaman compared to almost any other class. I do it all though, I’m not one of those lazy shamans who sit there meditating and who never use a pet, slow/root, or buff. I do all that and main heal in between mashing cannibalize 500 times a minute.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

When ppl say shaman is easier, idk how I feel about that

My enchanter was the easiest experience I’ve ever had playing p99
It felt like I was playing the game on easy mode or with cheat codes

Everyone was my best friend and I never had bad groups because by virtue of being a good enchanter, I made the groups good by charming OP mobs and basically keeping everything CC’d

On my shaman it feels like getting a good group can be challenging, and I’ve almost never had an enchanter in my group, thus making the grouping experience much harder, and quite frankly, it’s exhausting af to play a shaman compared to almost any other class. I do it all though, I’m not one of those lazy shamans who sit there meditating and who never use a pet, slow/root, or buff. I do all that and main heal in between mashing cannibalize 500 times a minute.

When people say "easier", they just mean you don't need to put quite as much effort into a Torpor Shaman.

Enchanters have many tools to make this game much easier, but charming in general requires more brain power. This is because charm breaks are random, so you need to spend more attention span to stay up to date on your pet's status.

When Shaman's solo, their playstyle is very consistent. Either you slow the mob in the first minute and win, or don't slow the mob and reset the fight. You can just Gina all of the important spells, because they won't randomly break.

[Toxigen]

When ppl say shaman is easier, idk how I feel about that

My enchanter was the easiest experience I’ve ever had playing p99
It felt like I was playing the game on easy mode or with cheat codes

Everyone was my best friend and I never had bad groups because by virtue of being a good enchanter, I made the groups good by charming OP mobs and basically keeping everything CC’d

On my shaman it feels like getting a good group can be challenging, and I’ve almost never had an enchanter in my group, thus making the grouping experience much harder, and quite frankly, it’s exhausting af to play a shaman compared to almost any other class. I do it all though, I’m not one of those lazy shamans who sit there meditating and who never use a pet, slow/root, or buff. I do all that and main heal in between mashing cannibalize 500 times a minute.

Any shaman just needs to find a similar level monk or warrior. Duo 4 lyfe.