Pally critical lull fail

[Gustoo]

Has anyone actually side by side parsed with the same mob a same gear high charisma pally versus a dwarf average charisma paladin?

I mean like the same actual charisma upgrades like you’d have if reasonably well geared. So not base 45 charisma but the actually working charisma level of a velious paladin.

I just wanna know if it’s worth being a stupid human or high elf instead of a handsome dwarf just because of the charisma.

[Snaggles]

I think this is the closest thing I’ve read on the forums:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327383

I leveled up in Unrest and gradually got rid of my Crusty and started using a crude stein to break the basement. The bump from sub 100 to low 100’s felt noticeable. I think a few piece set would be sufficient. Jester crown, crude stein, overseer signets, maybe a dragonskin mask from WW. Mine has a lot more pieces but swapping that much gear is a PITA.

[sajbert]

Assuming it works as for enchanters, yes it's noticable.

A Dwarf will struggle getting any decent cha even with the glamour sword and max points into charisma. IIRC a dwarf with max charisma could would still have better melee stats than a Human or Erudite who went all sta (I'd go all cha). If you don't have a crown of narandi then kobold jester's crown makes sense and largely makes up for the poor charisma. Items like Matchless Dragon Bracers and Greaves of Distraction could help.

TLDR: Dwarf will be doable if you're twinking HARD, otherwise you will have a noticable difference when it comes to lulls.

A human should be a fair choice too if you don't wanna go HE. Almost same cha as HE and better stats.

[Snaggles]

It depends where you fight too and how actively you use lull spells. In a group likely never. Solo sometimes depending where you adventure.

Splitting two guards near a zone line? Easy. Over a course of a solo grind in lower guk you could see more 2-4 pulls with no easy escape.

I always picked safer spots. Roll the dice enough you are going to get snake eyes. Without a long duration root until 54 cycle-camping two rooted npcs is almost impossible.

[Toxigen]

Its noticeable. Human max cha paladin = ultimate min/max

[zelld52]

Has anyone actually side by side parsed with the same mob a same gear high charisma pally versus a dwarf average charisma paladin?

I mean like the same actual charisma upgrades like you’d have if reasonably well geared. So not base 45 charisma but the actually working charisma level of a velious paladin.

I just wanna know if it’s worth being a stupid human or high elf instead of a handsome dwarf just because of the charisma.

Yes -- I'm not at home so I don't have my data tables, but I recorded data for a paladin and cleric.

At 100 cha, Paladin got crit resist about 30% of the time on Lull. At 175 CHA, paladin got about 10% crit resist on lull.

Cleric was the same. There is a formula around here, I'll dig through my posts, to find it.

[Ripqozko]

dwarves cant wear robes, automatically worse. hope that helps.

[PatChapp]

150+ is really the sweet spot for paci
255 is best,but below 150 crits are noticeably more frequent.
If you have 130-140 from gear,with the glamour sword you should be ok for regular XP mobs.

[zelld52]

MobRoll = ((((MobMR + MobLevel) / 3) / MobMaxMR()) + (RandomFloat(-10, 10) / 100.0)

CasterRoll = (((CasterCha + CasterLevel / 3) / CasterMaxCha) + (RandomFloat(-10, 10) / 100.0)


If the Caster Roll is less than Mob Roll, you get a "Critical" resist, and the mob will aggro.

[Rick Sanchez]

this is why high elf is the ultimate min/max race in this era for paladin.

[zelld52]

Erudite also have pretty good CHA, and have arguably better fashion and objectively cool starting city / area.

[Crede]

Erudite also have pretty good CHA, and have arguably better fashion and objectively cool starting city / area.

Bugged ass helms though, I have an erudite pal and I would recommend against it.

[Snaggles]

I rolled an eru. Got Flurry UV shield for 500p. DW helm looks cool on them unlike everyone else.

The cloth helm with Narandi isn’t a great look. IMHO I’d rather look different than just blend into a sea of other paladins.

In the end race choice doesn’t matter at all minus a few gear and quest pieces. SK’s have been debating this for 20+ years and there is innate slam and like a 70 STA swing at character creation…

[Barik]

yeah, play what you like to play my favorite paladin race is human go figure.

[Gustoo]

Yeah its still a tough call.

Like if you wanna be best at vanilla era you wanna be a dwarf because no gear makes up for the stat difference at that stage.

If you wanna be the best late velious you wanna be a high elf because there is gear to make up the stat difference.

And a human kinda splits the difference by having adequate melee stats with good charisma.

[Danth]

I look at it different--it's an easy call. When race isn't that dramatic a difference, "play what you like" becomes a low-guilt option. I'm a proponent of "play what you like" anyway, but paladin's a case where it's probably most sensible even for the min-maxers. Not a lot of difference between paladin race options. They all level at the same rate, they all have broadly similar factions, none of them have access to the strongest racial perks like regeneration or slam or huge statistic gulfs like ogre versus wood elf stamina that warriors have to pick between.

Most of the difference between 'em amounts to what'll annoy the player during lower levels or while in lower-quality gear. Dwarves are short and have bad charisma and fail lulls more often. Humans and erudites can't see in the dark. Erudites and high elves struggle with carry capacity. Half elves have bad wisdom. None of these things are crippling or necessarily even matter in the long haul but they can annoy folks out the gate. Erudites get mentioned twice so they're probably the worst choice, and even then the difference between them and the others is not all that large.

Danth

[Snaggles]

Despite CHA shortcomings Dwarves are probably the best for a casual player. You can put every point into stamina (115) and still start with 100 STR. Even then I wouldn’t say it’s easy to cap without raiding. Waiting it out at Scout and buying SS MQ’s would get you something like this:

95 base
20 starting points
25 full SS (no boots, or bracers)
9 Barbed Dragonscale Boots
16 Bracer of Benevolence x2
15 Chokidai Hide Pauldrons
5 sandwich of foul smelling herbs
6 any 6+ Talisman
16 Hammered Golden Loop x2
4 Spiked Seahorse Belt
4 Hiero Cloak
__________________
215 unbuffed stamina
(199 if you sub Silver Chitin Wrists)

That’s missing some slots but I’d assume Velium Fire Wedding Rings, Crystal Spider Eyes, and weapons that might not have stamina on them.

The only stat that matters is your own adoration of fashion but still…it’s easier. Plus the dwarven crafted armor is pretty great.

[Ennewi]

DWF:
https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Butcherblock_Hammer
https://wiki.project1999.com/Frostreaver

ERU:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_of_the_Stalwart_Seas
https://wiki.project1999.com/Aldryn,_Blade_of_the_Ocean

HIE/HEF:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Natures_Defender

HUM:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Frostreaver
https://wiki.project1999.com/Aldryn,_Blade_of_the_Ocean

[Toxigen]

Yeah Natures Defender is really, really good for how little it takes to get it.

Anyone not interested in raiding for weapons nor doing the epic should consider High Elf. Big boy CHA and the most bang-for-your-buck weapon out there.

[zelld52]

Yeah Natures Defender is really, really good for how little it takes to get it.

Anyone not interested in raiding for weapons nor doing the epic should consider High Elf. Big boy CHA and the most bang-for-your-buck weapon out there.

I've been thinkin about rolling a paladin... Is it possible solo 40+?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I've been thinkin about rolling a paladin... Is it possible solo 40+?

Yes. Both Shadowknights and Paladins are pretty good at soloing 1-60, due to having spells. That being said, the number of spots you can solo will be more limited than a dedicated caster like an Enchanter, Shaman, Necromancer, etc. Luckily Guards are generally easy to camp since they aren't casters, so you can level up to 55 killing guards while making money.

Typically it will be slower too, since Shadowknights and Paladins are bottlenecked by their mana. Their max mana pools are lower, and their spells are less mana efficient. Getting clickies and Flowing Thought items will alleviate mana issues quite a bit. You just need to get to level 45 so you can start using the clickies, and ideally join a raiding guild to get the Flowing Thought items.

You can buy a Narandi Crown since it isn't No Drop, but it will cost you a lot of money if you don't like raiding. For Flowing Thought I you can do the Shawl quests, which are doable without a guild.

[Toxigen]

I've been thinkin about rolling a paladin... Is it possible solo 40+?

Yeah I solo'd the entire way.

Buy lots of 10 dose Kilva's. DS pots make a huge difference.

Cannot understate how good Narandi Crown is. Throwing a shawl on top must be nice.

But yeah, narandi / fungi / haste / reaver / good cha gets you to 45 then you can start clicking Deepwater BP.

I'd definitely start 1-22 ish in the warrens. Then you get a hole key and can do entrance 50-55.

I did warrens --> perma --> CT to 43/44. Even for a paladin the zems are so bonkers it'll go by fast and they're actually pretty fun dungeons to play in.

[zelld52]

Yeah I solo'd the entire way.

Buy lots of 10 dose Kilva's. DS pots make a huge difference.

Cannot understate how good Narandi Crown is. Throwing a shawl on top must be nice.

But yeah, narandi / fungi / haste / reaver / good cha gets you to 45 then you can start clicking Deepwater BP.

I'd definitely start 1-22 ish in the warrens. Then you get a hole key and can do entrance 50-55.

I did warrens --> perma --> CT to 43/44. Even for a paladin the zems are so bonkers it'll go by fast and they're actually pretty fun dungeons to play in.


Is DW breastplate better than Fungi at 45+? I am getting tired of Druid and might throw Manastone on a paladin lul.

EDIT: See the HP gain on it -- pretty nice. Just gotta carry around Jaspers. but its actually more efficient than Elder Spiritist Greaves + Fungi + Fungi Staff on druid

[Toxigen]

Is DW breastplate better than Fungi at 45+? I am getting tired of Druid and might throw Manastone on a paladin lul.

EDIT: See the HP gain on it -- pretty nice. Just gotta carry around Jaspers. but its actually more efficient than Elder Spiritist Greaves + Fungi + Fungi Staff on druid

You use both.

Fungi in combat and swap to deepwater bp to heal.

Manastone on a paladin would be...a luxury for sure.

[Crede]

Is DW breastplate better than Fungi at 45+? I am getting tired of Druid and might throw Manastone on a paladin lul.

EDIT: See the HP gain on it -- pretty nice. Just gotta carry around Jaspers. but its actually more efficient than Elder Spiritist Greaves + Fungi + Fungi Staff on druid

Manastone is a waste on a pally IMO. If you really want to have fun with it, make a wiz and give it to them at 50 with their epic. It would open up a a good amount of leveling options vs just quadding.

Pallies really don't need much mana 45+. Crown of narandi will take care of most of what you need it for, since all your healing will be done with the DW helm/bp. The mana will go towards root/dispell/occasional lull if your DW arms do not have the proper radius to handle the split. They have pretty much all the tools to handle any dungeon, but it will slow down immensely 51+. But if you're set on a solo pally build make sure to go all in on CHA for those lulls and pick a race with high starting CHA(Human, High elf, or Half elf).

[Ghost of Starman]

Would a high CHA race with points in WIS be the best answer? I don't think you're capping WIS with gear, and it'd just take a few gear swaps to easily be at 130+ CHA.

[Crede]

Would a high CHA race with points in WIS be the best answer? I don't think you're capping WIS with gear, and it'd just take a few gear swaps to easily be at 130+ CHA.

I'd still go CHA, it's the hardest stat to raise.

I went full WIS on my Erudite, 2nd highest wisdom race, and regretted it the first time I wiped on a crit lull resist. Sure you can swap in some gear, but I'll still take 200 CHA on a swap vs 180 on a swap.

Wis on the other hand is super niche use, probably good for that last HoT at lvl 60 if you are soloing some named and need to get the extra heal off, but that will probably never happen. And you get 5 soulfire charges for those emergency healing situations.

Pallies just don't get a good enough spellset IMO to be needing/utilizing extreme amounts of mana. Passive regen, like Crown of Narandi, is much more important.

[Snaggles]

I soloed to 60. No fungi or DW BP; it was pretty easy.

A DW BP is 30hp a sec healing. DW Helm is about 12. Fungi is 2.5.

[zelld52]

I'd still go CHA, it's the hardest stat to raise.

I went full WIS on my Erudite, 2nd highest wisdom race, and regretted it the first time I wiped on a crit lull resist. Sure you can swap in some gear, but I'll still take 200 CHA on a swap vs 180 on a swap.

Wis on the other hand is super niche use, probably good for that last HoT at lvl 60 if you are soloing some named and need to get the extra heal off, but that will probably never happen. And you get 5 soulfire charges for those emergency healing situations.

Pallies just don't get a good enough spellset IMO to be needing/utilizing extreme amounts of mana. Passive regen, like Crown of Narandi, is much more important.

I think I might like a Pal with the manastone... Just for a few clicks every few fights so I can continue pulling.

Hmmmm maybe High Elf Pal + 20CHA +5sta

[Snaggles]

With The Hole pretty quiet these days you could have a lot of fun with that.

[Toxigen]

With The Hole pretty quiet these days you could have a lot of fun with that.

Until you run into that max level rock golem.

Hole entrance was fantastic for me 50-55. Then lower level chicken nuggets green out.

You can do CE if you're lucky enough for the single rock golem roamer to not crit resist you or keep a careful eye out for his spawn path. If you do aggro just pray your DS pot isn't on and you can get him rooted and try to camp out. The max (and near max) level golems are extremely hard to have root hold long enough to do this, though.

And of course, as soon as you get the unlucky Bejeweled, Rocksoul, or Stonesoul spawn you're gonna have a bad time.

Have your OT hammer (and WC cap) at the ready in case shit gets ugly. CRs are pretty bad there unless you have access to a 60 cleric that can easily paci to you, or a keyed rogue dragger.

If I ever log in again I'll go try out LDCs.

[Snaggles]

I've seen monks do rats in ROOP and Neriak Arena.
A pally can do what they can, to a point. It just takes a lot longer with a lot more self-heal clicks.

I soloed Rocksoul at 57 with a narandi lance prior to the knight table change and 2h updates. 38/45 or whatever for the Narandi as well. Only took like 15 minutes. I think the dot went full-cycle like half a dozen times:)

[Toxigen]

Rats are prob the best place. With really high CHA can feasibly get singles and the safe spot on the stairs outside of los of the roaming golem in hall to CE.

Still. KC ent is so much less risk you'd probably wind up with more XP over a long period of time.

I just despise KC...I guess solo isn't as bad...its grouping with the laziest players on p99 that I cannot stand.

[zelld52]

Rats are prob the best place. With really high CHA can feasibly get singles and the safe spot on the stairs outside of los of the roaming golem in hall to CE.

Still. KC ent is so much less risk you'd probably wind up with more XP over a long period of time.

I just despise KC...I guess solo isn't as bad...its grouping with the laziest players on p99 that I cannot stand.

I really liked the Castle top on my monk -- Zentile wrote up a good guide on staying there solo as monk. All would be fairly easy pulls solo with Lull.

[Ardok]

Rats are prob the best place. With really high CHA can feasibly get singles and the safe spot on the stairs outside of los of the roaming golem in hall to CE.

Still. KC ent is so much less risk you'd probably wind up with more XP over a long period of time.

I just despise KC...I guess solo isn't as bad...its grouping with the laziest players on p99 that I cannot stand.

[Ripqozko]

Rats are prob the best place. With really high CHA can feasibly get singles and the safe spot on the stairs outside of los of the roaming golem in hall to CE.

Still. KC ent is so much less risk you'd probably wind up with more XP over a long period of time.

I just despise KC...I guess solo isn't as bad...its grouping with the laziest players on p99 that I cannot stand.

55+ i solo'd velks spiders, easy exp and way more over time, if entrance is full just goto like 2nd or 3rd floor and claim like 4 mobs. easy to lull and split or root at worst.

[Toxigen]

55+ i solo'd velks spiders, easy exp and way more over time, if entrance is full just goto like 2nd or 3rd floor and claim like 4 mobs. easy to lull and split or root at worst.

Yeah true, new ZEM is pretty good too.

[Crede]

As a pally I like the hole idea to 55. Then I’d probably do CoM 3rd floor 55-57. From 57-60 i would just solo HS north. No reason a pally should die in there. If you get a nasty crit in a room just pop DA and cc the adds but really the mobs outside the rooms should be enough.

[Toxigen]

As a pally I like the hole idea to 55. Then I’d probably do CoM 3rd floor 55-57. From 57-60 i would just solo HS north. No reason a pally should die in there. If you get a nasty crit in a room just pop DA and cc the adds but really the mobs outside the rooms should be enough.

HS? Really? I mean its doable but...really?

I'm all set with getting HT'd. The ZEM isn't worth the risk there either.

Velk really is the answer it just feels bad because velious hp mobs. The ZEM is too good and lots of passerby traffic for free buffs / quick duos.

[Crede]

HS? Really? I mean its doable but...really?

I'm all set with getting HT'd. The ZEM isn't worth the risk there either.

Velk really is the answer it just feels bad because velious hp mobs. The ZEM is too good and lots of passerby traffic for free buffs / quick duos.

I was originally thinking of my sk here in which I used my pet to take the HT. Xp was great, you can’t beat the mob density and they die pretty quick. Velks sucks and is overrun by bards and as you mention the mobs have way too much hp.

I’d do still HS on pal. Ht is like one dw bp click, big deal. If you die there on a pally in north, you need help. Totally worth the risk for me, but I guess everyone has different skill thresholds :)

[Toxigen]

I was originally thinking of my sk here in which I used my pet to take the HT. Xp was great, you can’t beat the mob density and they die pretty quick. Velks sucks and is overrun by bards and as you mention the mobs have way too much hp.

I’d do still HS on pal. Ht is like one dw bp click, big deal. If you die there on a pally in north, you need help. Totally worth the risk for me, but I guess everyone has different skill thresholds :)

lol @ the "skill threshholds" dig - like i havent done everything in this game already

[Snaggles]

Killing anything with over like 5k hps for xp with a pally for xp is a slog.

I personally would rather load up on Jaspers and find more local kills. Velks would be ok as would like Neriak Arena or sol B. Even the risk v reward in The Hole is questionable. I wouldn’t dabble in HS but I’m getting old, lol. I’m sure it makes for a good Twitch vid.

[Ripqozko]

I was originally thinking of my sk here in which I used my pet to take the HT. Xp was great, you can’t beat the mob density and they die pretty quick. Velks sucks and is overrun by bards and as you mention the mobs have way too much hp.

I’d do still HS on pal. Ht is like one dw bp click, big deal. If you die there on a pally in north, you need help. Totally worth the risk for me, but I guess everyone has different skill thresholds :)

I had no issues with velk on my pally, at worst you can take another floor, ez pz even with velious hp. It was faster then dock groups exp wise when hole was the ish, velks is better now. Bards can't disrupt the whole thing just claim a floor or ent if free.

[Ripqozko]

lol @ the "skill threshholds" dig - like i havent done everything in this game already

You didn't kill warders, sorry you don't got. Hope that helps.

[Toxigen]

You didn't kill warders, sorry you don't got. Hope that helps.

It helped. Merry Xmas you filthy animal.