How are Shamans without the expensive spells and items?

[Vanessa]

I know that Shamans are great farming and solo characters when they're max level and have those big spells like Torpor and items like Fungi Tunic etc. But how well do they do before that point?

How well does a level Shaman solo level / farm things, compared to other classes who solo level like Druid, Necro and Mage etc.?

[Toxigen]

They're fine for leveling solo. Certainly a fungi makes everything easier for all classes that can wear it.

Big thing for shaman is getting the epic as soon as they can. 100k and a 3-4 hour faction grind is all you need for the full mq. The epic click allows you to root rot 5+ mobs at a time.

If you're completely untwinked and on a shoestring budget, your best bet is to find a twinked melee to duo with.

[loramin]

Big thing for shaman is getting the epic as soon as they can. 100k and a 3-4 hour faction grind is all you need for the full mq. The epic click allows you to root rot 5+ mobs at a time.

This, but there's a faster/smarter way to get one also, at least depending on your server. If there's a guild on your server that lets you join at 45 or 50, and they do Fear golems ... join that guild!

I was an idiot and paid a ton of plat for my tear (thanks again Daldaen for the good deal!) because I thought "I don't want to join a guild and raid yet". But, now that I'm in a raiding guild, I realize that golems pop every three days, which means there's a chance for a tear every three days. In our guild you don't even have to spend DKP, it's just a random roll between all Shaman there.

If you just join such a guild and park your Shaman in Feerrott, you will have your tear/epic in no time ... certainly a lot faster than you can farm 100k (again, like I regretfully did).

[Freakish]

Gear allows you to make mistakes and continue longer without downtime. If you just want to root and kill guards every 6 minutes you're fine in banded armor with moonstone rings.

As you get more gear you can venture into more dangerous zones like howling stones where being hit by a couple melee mobs with harm touch will leave you no room for error. You won't be making big money taking down solo camps without gear. The ac hp and most importantly resisting big damage spells is necessary or you'll be a root resist or two away from a corpse run.

[sajbert]

They're fine.

Arguably quite weak until 34 but they CAN solo through it. After that things will get a lot easier but not exactly great. However, soloing to 60 will be an OK experience, at least in comparison to leveling to 60 on any class using standard methods.

You'll also be able to group. Slow, regen, dex - they all certainly help.

If you're a troll that'll help your downtime noticably at 50+ too.

The challenge is making enough plat to get things like JBB, epic, fungi and torpor. However, once you have torpor JBB isn't as useful and fungi too loses most of its value. Just make sure to get the epic and torpor and you'll be gravy. Epic is hard on any class but not so hard for shamans in comparison to other classes, just get the faction required as you level up and join a decent guild. If you wanna play on Green or Blue you could probably pick up a Vindi BP without TOO much raiding required, it'll beat fungi once you get Torpor. Some guilds will provide dropped spells during raids like torpor for free to anyone who can scribe it.

[Snaggles]

Like Toxigen said without all the toys they are a better if you find a +1. Even with all the gear they are situationally better than an enchanter or necro but often far worse. I’ve seen some good druids do things that would give most shamans pause.

It’s a great class. It fits a roll. It’s a predictable and plodding farmer. You won’t ever fail a FD or or get murdered by your charmed pet so if you are a dogmatic gamer that alone might tip the scale in its favor.

[ArbiterBlixen]

You can solo fine before getting good gear and torpor. But the kill rate is basically 1 kill per med break. For me that felt very underpowered during leveling, but you can solo to 60 np, it's just not particularly fast.

[loramin]

But the kill rate is basically 1 kill per med break. For me that felt very underpowered during leveling, but you can solo to 60 np, it's just not particularly fast.

It's all relative.

First off, I remember doing two per rest break at plenty of spots. But more importantly, even if it is just one, that one starts looking pretty damn nice ... when you have to wait two hours to find a group, and then when you join them they kill 3 mobs in an hour because of deaths/drama/whatever ;)

[ArbiterBlixen]

It's all relative.

First off, I remember doing two per rest break at plenty of spots. But more importantly, even if it is just one, that one starts looking pretty damn nice ... when you have to wait two hours to find a group, and then when you join them they kill 3 mobs in an hour because of deaths/drama/whatever ;)

It was sort of close to two per med break for me as well during some stretches. But, I had a fungi tunic and above avg twink gear.

[sajbert]

With fungi epic and jbb I can practically pull non-stop if I only use root, slow, epic and jbb.

Without those toys I’d say 1kill per med break.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

As stated above, Shamans are one of the classes that take some time to get going. Until you get Cannibalize/Regen at level 24, their solo capabilities aren't great. But leveling up to 24 is generally pretty easy, especially in high ZEM areas like Befallen, Unrest, Mistmoore, etc. Level 34 is where you get your pet, which is a significant improvement on your DPS.

If you can afford Silver Chitin Hand Wraps and a Poison Wind Censor, your are going to be shredding mobs in Melee from 1-40, it will be faster than root/rotting. You just need to slow the mob and face tank it. Shamans have the same offensive skill caps as Warriors from 1-50, so they are actually pretty good at melee in that level range. Having spell haste starting at level 29 largely makes up for the lack of double attack, since most Warriors aren't going to have spell haste at that level range solo, unless you are a gnome or mega twinked.

When you hit 45 you can use JBB. If you were killing guards to level from 25-40, you may have enough money to buy a JBB. JBB alone can easily level you solo from 45-60. That is what I did. I didn't have my Epic when leveling from 45-60. Having your Epic is nice, but it is much more expensive.

From a damage perspective, JBB does 32.8 DPS over 8 seconds, and Epic does 15.8 DPS over 90 seconds. Generally speaking most Shamans can't handle root rotting more than 3-4 mobs at a time, especially pre-torpor. So Epic will only be 25-50% faster than JBB, depending on the camp and your comfort level with root rotting 3-4 mobs.

While a 25-50% increase in kill speed is obviously awesome, the price difference between Epic and JBB is about 80k. Spending 20-30k (depending on server) to basically get half of an Epic's worth of kill power is still fantastic, and generally the best choice for a player limited on resources. JBB can also be re-sold later on to fund Torpor.

[loramin]

As stated above, Shamans are one of the classes that take some time to get going. Until you get Cannibalize/Regen at level 24, their solo capabilities aren't great. But leveling up to 24 is generally pretty easy, especially in high ZEM areas like Befallen, Unrest, Mistmoore, etc. Level 34 is where you get your pet, which is a significant improvement on your DPS.

If you can afford Silver Chitin Hand Wraps and a Poison Wind Censor, your are going to be shredding mobs in Melee from 1-40, it will be faster than root/rotting. You just need to slow the mob and face tank it. Shamans have the same offensive skill caps as Warriors from 1-50, so they are actually pretty good at melee in that level range. Having spell haste starting at level 29 largely makes up for the lack of double attack, since most Warriors aren't going to have spell haste at that level range solo, unless you are a gnome or mega twinked.

When you hit 45 you can use JBB. If you were killing guards to level from 25-40, you may have enough money to buy a JBB. JBB alone can easily level you solo from 45-60. That is what I did. I didn't have my Epic when leveling from 45-60. Having your Epic is nice, but it is much more expensive.

From a damage perspective, JBB does 32.8 DPS over 8 seconds, and Epic does 15.8 DPS over 90 seconds. Generally speaking most Shamans can't handle root rotting more than 3-4 mobs at a time, especially pre-torpor. So Epic will only be 25-50% faster than JBB, depending on the camp and your comfort level with root rotting 3-4 mobs.

While a 25-50% increase in kill speed is obviously awesome, the price difference between Epic and JBB is about 80k. Spending 20-30k (depending on server) to basically get half of an Epic's worth of kill power is still fantastic, and generally the best choice for a player limited on resources. JBB can also be re-sold later on to fund Torpor.

I just want to say, if you disagree with anything in this post ... for the love of god don't say anything! This poster will spend ten pages arguing with you about how wrong you are and how right he is (regardless of, objectively, how right or wrong either party is) .

Trust me, it just isn't worth it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I just want to say, if you disagree with anything in this post ... for the love of god don't say anything! This poster will spend ten pages arguing with you about how wrong you are and how right he is. Trust me, it just isn't worth it.

This is just sad. Obviously Loramin doesn't understand that forums are for having discussions. You should stick to editing the wiki, where you don't need to actually talk to people.

[sajbert]

If you were killing guards to level from 25-40, you may have enough money to buy a JBB. JBB alone can easily level you solo from 45-60. That is what I did. I didn't have my Epic when leveling from 45-60. Having your Epic is nice, but it is much more expensive.

Nah, even assuming you level on paineel guards lvl 20-40 you won't have enough cash for a JBB.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nah, even assuming you level on paineel guards lvl 20-40 you won't have enough cash for a JBB.

It depends on how many guards you kill. I got enough plat for JBB killing Misty Thicket Guards from 25-40, but that was back when there was an extra guard or two on the wall, and the spawn timers were 6 mins each (it has sadly been changed).

That was around 500-600 plat per hour, so you only needed 40 hours of killing guards to get 20k. Most guard spots net more like 200-250pp an hour, so it's 80 hours instead of 40. That is still very doable, much more so than the 400 hours it would take to farm 100k at that rate.

[loramin]

Don't answer him sajbert:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ornka9rAaKRA2Rkac/giphy.gif

[Crede]

As stated above, Shamans are one of the classes that take some time to get going. Until you get Cannibalize/Regen at level 24, their solo capabilities aren't great. But leveling up to 24 is generally pretty easy, especially in high ZEM areas like Befallen, Unrest, Mistmoore, etc. Level 34 is where you get your pet, which is a significant improvement on your DPS.

If you can afford Silver Chitin Hand Wraps and a Poison Wind Censor, your are going to be shredding mobs in Melee from 1-40, it will be faster than root/rotting. You just need to slow the mob and face tank it. Shamans have the same offensive skill caps as Warriors from 1-50, so they are actually pretty good at melee in that level range. Having spell haste starting at level 29 largely makes up for the lack of double attack, since most Warriors aren't going to have spell haste at that level range solo, unless you are a gnome or mega twinked.

When you hit 45 you can use JBB. If you were killing guards to level from 25-40, you may have enough money to buy a JBB. JBB alone can easily level you solo from 45-60. That is what I did. I didn't have my Epic when leveling from 45-60. Having your Epic is nice, but it is much more expensive.

From a damage perspective, JBB does 32.8 DPS over 8 seconds, and Epic does 15.8 DPS over 90 seconds. Generally speaking most Shamans can't handle root rotting more than 3-4 mobs at a time, especially pre-torpor. So Epic will only be 25-50% faster than JBB, depending on the camp and your comfort level with root rotting 3-4 mobs.

While a 25-50% increase in kill speed is obviously awesome, the price difference between Epic and JBB is about 80k. Spending 20-30k (depending on server) to basically get half of an Epic's worth of kill power is still fantastic, and generally the best choice for a player limited on resources. JBB can also be re-sold later on to fund Torpor.

I agree with a lot of this, except the part about JBB vs Epic.

In 90 seconds, the JBB will do 32.8 DPS, requiring roughly 11 clicks where you are locked the whole time from doing other actions and having to mash a button every 8 seconds.
In 90 seconds, the Epic will do roughly the same if you decide to root rot 2 mobs, which only requires 2 clicks, freeing up the other 72 seconds to do tons of other things(or nothing if you choose). It is easily feasible to root rot 5-6 mobs at a time with 11 clicks available in 90 seconds. A moderately skilled shaman can definitely maintain 90ish dps.

Not to mention, JBB will break root much more often.

JBB is more of a fun clicky from 45-52. I'd put it at like 5-10% tops of overall epic utility/power.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I agree with a lot of this, except the part about JBB vs Epic.

In 90 seconds, the JBB will do 32.8 DPS, requiring roughly 11 clicks where you are locked the whole time from doing other actions and having to mash a button every 8 seconds.
In 90 seconds, the Epic will do roughly the same if you decide to root rot 2 mobs, which only requires 2 clicks, freeing up the other 72 seconds to do tons of other things(or nothing if you choose). It is easily feasible to root rot 5-6 mobs at a time with 11 clicks available in 90 seconds. A moderately skilled shaman can definitely maintain 90ish dps.

Not to mention, JBB will break root much more often.

JBB is more of a fun clicky from 45-52. I'd put it at like 5-10% tops of overall epic utility/power.

This is a very common misconception. I am not really sure where it came from. The only thing I can guess is people don't try other strategies outside of root/rotting with Shamans very often.

When you are leveling with JBB, you do NOT root rot. This is because JBB breaks root, as you say. It is a waste of time. Instead you play like this:

1. Have a hasted pet.
2. Pull mob with slow and root adds (if any).
3. Face tank the slowed mob and spam JBB, with your pet beating on the mob.
4. (Optionial) depending on your level of gear, you can start DoTing the rooted mobs if you have enough mana/HP regen for your current camp cycle.

I leveled from 45-60 this way, and you can easily keep up to near 32 DPS this way from JBB, plus your hasted pet's DPS and maybe weapon procs between casts if you have something like https://wiki.project1999.com/Blight,_Hammer_of_the_Scourge .

It's much better than 5-10% of Epic's power when leveling, simply because keeping 4 or more mobs rooted is quite risky without Torpor. You will burn through a lot of mana/HP on unlucky root breaks. This is especially true if you are also using mana DoTs to speed up the process.

Epic's power is also very dependent on the camp you are at. Not all camps have 4+ mobs constantly available for root rotting, and any camp with 1-2 mobs JBB can keep up with.

[sajbert]

Don't answer him sajbert:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ornka9rAaKRA2Rkac/giphy.gif

Yea I won’t. Imagine thinking you’d pull 500pp/hr pulling misty guards at lvl 25-40 even with non-twinked gear even pre-nerf and uncontested.

JBB is a pipedream for a new player. Don’t expect to have one when it’s the most useful.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yea I won’t. Imagine thinking you’d pull 500pp/hr pulling misty guards at lvl 25-40 even with non-twinked gear even pre-nerf and uncontested.

JBB is a pipedream for a new player. Don’t expect to have one when it’s the most useful.

You missed the part about misty thicket guards where they used to spawn every 6 minutes, and there were 1-2 more spawns on the wall. I was constantly pulling in 500-600pp per hour if I had the wall to myself. When I was camping them I played late at night, so it was pretty easy to camp most of them. You can't do this now, and I stated that in my previous comment.

Most guard spots are giving you 200-250 an hour, so that is 80 hours for 20k. It's really not that hard to make plat in P99, even at lower levels.

[bcbrown]

If you can afford Silver Chitin Hand Wraps and a Poison Wind Censor, your are going to be shredding mobs in Melee from 1-40, it will be faster than root/rotting.

This is true, and I recommend it. I passed them on to other chars once I hit 40 and switched to root rotting for now.

It's really not that hard to make plat in P99, even at lower levels.

This is not true (now), or at least not obvious to someone who hasn't done this dozens of times on different toons and knows all the spots. At level 43 now, I have just over 2k in the bank, and I haven't spent plat other than SCHW + PWC, plus about 700-1000 plat on other assorted gear that probably wasn't worth it.

If you know a good guard spot (or any other low-40 cash camp) I'm all ears. Freeport dock guards are still too hard to split and keep down. Feerrott spectres are consistent, but probably closer to 100pp/hour.

And to answer the OP: Soloing a shaman with minimal twinking (banded plus jewelry) was pretty easy. I mostly followed the evil shaman guide, and except for a couple awkward transition levels it never felt too hard or grindy.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This is true, and I recommend it. I passed them on to other chars once I hit 40 and switched to root rotting for now.



This is not true (now), or at least not obvious to someone who hasn't done this dozens of times on different toons and knows all the spots. At level 43 now, I have just over 2k in the bank, and I haven't spent plat other than SCHW + PWC, plus about 700-1000 plat on other assorted gear that probably wasn't worth it.

If you know a good guard spot (or any other low-40 cash camp) I'm all ears. Freeport dock guards are still too hard to split and keep down. Feerrott spectres are consistent, but probably closer to 100pp/hour.

And to answer the OP: Soloing a shaman with minimal twinking (banded plus jewelry) was pretty easy. I mostly followed the evil shaman guide, and except for a couple awkward transition levels it never felt too hard or grindy.

I am sure it does depend on which server you are on. I'm not on Green, which is probably more camped out than Blue.

I don't know how camped Misty Thicket guards are these days, but in your 30s you could kill the whole wall if you had it to yourself, that is around 130pp per hour right there. You can invis into Rivervale and snipe some of the lower level guards to get yourself closer to 200pp per hour. If I remember correctly most of the deputys are 20s-30s in Rivervale. Only a few of them are in their upper 30s, and you can figure that out and avoid them.

Paineel Guards, assuming they aren't camped.

Crystal Cavern Geos are really good in your level range too. They are a bit more random than guaranteed guard drops, but they do drop a lot of vendor loot gems, and I am pretty sure the average I got there was at least 200 or more PP per hour. I can't remember if they were doable at 43 though. I remember killing them with JBB, but it's worth a look. They are pullable one at a time, unlike docks.

[sajbert]

Yea like I said, delusional.

[PatChapp]

Each misty guard is 11pp.
You never killed 50+ hr.

[Snaggles]

What Crede said isn’t a misconception, it’s math.

As JBB does need to be constantly clicked. It’s a great sub for the epic when stuff has 2k hps and all you have is 16k plat (on blue). It melts HK bards and nobles in 8 clicks. Grobb Bashers though close to 16. Geos or Neriak Arena npcs like 32 or more. It’s by far more efficient than mana spells but it’s work, lol. You can kill 2+ spawns with it but your speed drops. It’s worth every plat you pay for it but isn’t “necessary” with an epic (nor should it be).

I rolled a JBB’able race never thinking I’d get an epic, especially to level with. I’m very glad I did since that 45-52’ish run was very quick and fun. An Iksar would have a notably more difficult time. I also spent a 57-60 without it and root rotting was fairly painful but I only had one spawn to kill. If I didn’t have better stuff to buy I’d buy it back (for the 5th time). It’s nice to kill an annoying green con or add dps to a duo since the epic won’t likely see full potential in a quick pull environment.

A Shaman with all the toys is fun. With bane and malo at 60 it’s still fun and very useful. If you enjoy the class just play it, OP :) . You might get lucky with a cliff golem Torpor (my duo buddy just let me mem it!) and I got a cheap Childs Tear from a casual guild golem race.

Note: Treants and then HK guards to 45 will likely get you close to JBB money dependent on what it costs on your server. Problem is ogres and trolls have fitment issues in HK so that’s mainly a Barb tip (or for a stubborn fatty). I did some hill giants too back prior to them having PH’s. It’s certainly possible but will likely slow down your xp path.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Each misty guard is 11pp.
You never killed 50+ hr.

People keep not reading for some reason. Misty Thicket Guards used to be on a 6 minute timer, and you could kill up to 6 of them (1 on the left side of the wall, 1 on the right side of the wall, 3 at the gate, and 1 in the tower close to the gate). Let's do the math!

6 Guards = 60 pp per 6 minutes minimum, plus they drop up to 1pp in loose coin.

There are 10 spawn cycles of the 6 guards in an hour, because 6 * 10 = 60 minutes.

So 60 * 10 = 600pp, not including coin droppage.

I usually couldn't perfectly get 10 cycles in an hour, it was usually 9, which is why I say 500-600pp. There were plenty of times where I logged in and nobody was camping the wall, so I had the whole thing to myself.

Misty Thicket Guards were this way for most of P99's history, they only changed the spawn timers a year or two ago to 30 minutes. There also used to be an extra guard or two on the wall like 4 or 5 years ago, one guard was on top of one of the towers, and there were four guards at the gate instead of 3.

What Crede said isn’t a misconception, it’s math.

As JBB does need to be constantly clicked. It’s a great sub for the epic when stuff has 2k hps and all you have is 16k plat (on blue). It melts HK bards and nobles in 8 clicks. Grobb Bashers though close to 16. Geos or Neriak Arena npcs like 32 or more. It’s by far more efficient than mana spells but it’s work, lol. You can kill 2+ spawns with it but your speed drops. It’s worth every plat you pay for it but isn’t “necessary” with an epic (nor should it be).

I rolled a JBB’able race never thinking I’d get an epic, especially to level with. I’m very glad I did since that 45-52’ish run was very quick and fun. An Iksar would have a notably more difficult time. I also spent a 57-60 without it and root rotting was fairly painful but I only had one spawn to kill. If I didn’t have better stuff to buy I’d buy it back (for the 5th time). It’s nice to kill an annoying green con or add dps to a duo since the epic won’t likely see full potential in a quick pull environment.

A Shaman with all the toys is fun. With bane and malo at 60 it’s still fun and very useful. If you enjoy the class just play it, OP :) . You might get lucky with a cliff golem Torpor (my duo buddy just let me mem it!) and I got a cheap Childs Tear from a casual guild golem race.

Note: Treants and then HK guards to 45 will likely get you close to JBB money dependent on what it costs on your server. Problem is ogres and trolls have fitment issues in HK so that’s mainly a Barb tip (or for a stubborn fatty). I did some hill giants too back prior to them having PH’s. It’s certainly possible but will likely slow down your xp path.

You are correct, it is Math. JBB is 32 DPS, Epic is basically 16 DPS. Spamming JBB is the equivalent to Epic DoTing 2 mobs. I am not sure why people don't understand this. Usually Shamans are root rotting 3-4 mobs with Epic, so generally speaking JBB is about half as powerful as Epic. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule on both sides. If you are camping the two Giants at the bottom of the Frontier Mountains fort, JBB is the equivalent of Epic, because there are only 2 mobs down there, so you can only get up to 32 DPS from Epic. Conversely, if you are like level 58 and still in CoM, you probably could root rot 5-6 mobs since a lot of them are greened out at that point for 96 DPS.

With JBB spam I was getting 1 blue bubble an hour in PoM Rat Maze at level 59. Getting 1 Blue an hour solo 55+ is really good. As I said before, spamming JBB works if you don't root/rot. You slow tank one mob that you JBB spam, while rooting adds. When you kill the current mob you are on, you slow the next one, and rinse/repeat.

I never said JBB was necessary with an Epic. I said JBB is a great alternative to Epic if you can't afford it, because Epic is like 80K more expensive than JBB. It is much easier for a new player to farm 20k than it is for them for farm 100K or more.

[Snaggles]

Bane takes 5 seconds to cast
Epic takes 9 seconds to cast
Together that’s 3073 damage. If you time it right you can root a mob and not take damage (which is basically mana).

A JBB needs 12 clicks assuming it doesn’t break root and you have to reset.
It takes 96 seconds to get those 12 clicks off if no interupts.

Either method you can face tank if you want or have to.
I can think of a lot of things to do in the remaining 82 seconds.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Bane takes 5 seconds to cast
Epic takes 9 seconds to cast
Together that’s 3073 damage. If you time it right you can root a mob and not take damage (which is basically mana).

A JBB needs 12 clicks assuming it doesn’t break root and you have to reset.
It takes 96 seconds to get those 12 clicks off if no interupts.

Either method you can face tank if you want or have to.
I can think of a lot of things to do in the remaining 82 seconds.

The problem is a pre-torpor Shaman can't spam DoTs. They would run out of mana. To be clear, we are talking about a Shaman who isn't level 60.

You dont root the mob you JBB spam, you slow tank it.

[Ripqozko]

Inb4 1000 DSM replies

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Inb4 1000 DSM replies

I see your posts are still just nonsense. Why bother coming to these forums at all? You clearly aren't here to help other players.

[Ripqozko]

I see your posts are still just nonsense. Why bother coming to these forums at all? You clearly aren't here to help other players.

inb4 999 more DSM replies

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I did try to warn people ...

Nobody is going to listen to you. "Don't have discussions on a forum" is the worst advise you can give here.

EDIT: The post I am quoting was deleted by Loramin.

[Ripqozko]

Nobody is going to listen to you. "Don't have discussions on a forum" is the worst advise you can give here.

EDIT: The post I am quoting was deleted by Loramin.

998

[loramin]

Yeah, I realized after I requoted my "It's a trap" gif that I didn't need to drive the point home further, so I deleted it: you were hanging yourself with your own words just fine.

But now I guess it's preserved forever in your reply. /shrug

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah, I realized after I requoted my "It's a trap" gif that I didn't need to drive the point home further, so I deleted it: you were hanging yourself with your own words just fine.

But now I guess it's preserved forever in your reply. /shrug

How am I "hanging myself" by having a normal discussion about game mechanics with other users?

The only person looking like an asshole here is the guy who keeps saying "don't have discussions on a forum". That is you:)

If you can disprove my points, that is great! We all get to learn something. But trying to silence me just because you are mad at me for a nonsensical reason is just silly.

[Ripqozko]

How am I "hanging myself" by having a normal discussion about game mechanics with other users?

The only person looking like an asshole here is the guy who keeps saying "don't have discussions on a forum". That is you:)

If you can disprove my points, that is great! We all get to learn something. But trying to silence me just because you are mad at me for a nonsensical reason is just silly.

997

[Chortles Snortles]

would take 1000 DSMs over 1 Loramin

[loramin]

And the forums would likely be better with one less Chuckles (or your other fifty banned accounts) ... but we all have to play the hand we're dealt, right?

We're all stuck with each other, and the best that can be done is to warn new folks about the ... interesting ... members of our community (like you and DSM ... although you at least make it pretty clear what you're about up front, and you get yourself banned every few months; DSM kind of pretends to be a normal poster at first, so I think new folks need more warning with him).

[Chortles Snortles]

DSM nor I have ever been dunked on by the project founder
an honor solely held by you

really makes you think
(lol)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

And the forums would likely be better with one less Chuckles (or your other fifty banned accounts) ... but we all have to play the hand we're dealt, right?

We're all stuck with each other, and the best that can be done is to warn new folks about the ... interesting ... members of our community (like you and DSM ... although you at least make it pretty clear what you're about up front, and you get yourself banned every few months; DSM kind of pretends to be a normal poster at first, so I think new folks need more warning with him).

Yup, nonsensical reason indeed. Please explain to new users what you mean. I honestly don't understand myself.

How am I a snake by posting video and log evidence from the game to back up my points and help other users learn more about the game?

Do you think I am somehow faking all of this? What possible motive could I have to try and post fake evidence to lead people astray?

If I wanted to troll people, it is way easier to just post troll comments, plenty of users already do that, and I wouldn't need to spend hours of my own time doing game reasearch.

would take 1000 DSMs over 1 Loramin

Thanks Chortles!

[loramin]

I think you pretend to have conversations at first, and then it quickly becomes you waging a war against anyone who disagrees with anything you say, where you throw massive walls of text at the people you are "conversing" with, and refuse to give any ground or listen to anyone else.

That's just the pattern I see with many of your posts, but you're welcome to disagree, and anyone bored and curious enough can look at both our post histories to make up their own mind.

[Chortles Snortles]

j-j-jokes are le BaD and NoT OK So ChORtLeS ShOuD be LE BANNED For Le EVER loramin logic
(lol)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I think you pretend to have conversations at first, and then it quickly becomes you waging a war against anyone who disagrees with anything you say, where you throw massive walls of text at the people you are "conversing" with, and refuse to give any ground or listen to anyone else.

That's just the pattern I see with many of your posts, but you're welcome to disagree, and anyone bored and curious enough can look at both our post histories to make up their own mind.

What would be my motivation here? This is such a strange take. Just because someone disagrees with me, doesn't mean they are correct. I have conceded and admitted I am wrong plenty of times, too.

It sounds like you just don't like people disagreeing with you, or posting long comments. I am sorry, but your post length preferences and dislike for people disagreeing with you is not my problem.

Please do not take these issues you have out on me by trying to silence me. I don't try to silence you.

[Chortles Snortles]

About Loramin

Loramin is a non-classic player, imposter, and infiltrator, who calls classic players childish non-classic names in public which he heard on the television (words you hear old wrinkly politicians and aging teen pop stars say such as 'racist', 'misogynist' and 'homophobic') to appear caring and intellectual when in fact Loramin is the complete opposite.

Loramin is in fact a passive aggressive dicktator who is opposed to freedom of speech and players thinking for themselves.

Loramin is your quintessential bible basher and thought police department.

Loramin is an intellectual property thief who steals content to create non-classic 'game guides' which convert players into Loramin mini-me's who can't think for themselves and miss out on unique gaming experiences because they're too busy following Loramin's unofficial guide verbatim.

Loramin is a spammer who hates choice and loves censorship.

To Loramin, lying and cheating is a way of life and so is cooking up nothingburgers and calling them double bacon cheeseburgers.

"Comment, subscribe and click the bell notification icon so I can spam you with things you don't need"

"Be more like me instead of more like you"

"There's no such thing as normal"



(lol)

[loramin]

Look, I win either way here. If you keep to your standard pattern in the future, I don't have to say a thing, and you've proved me right.

If you prove me wrong, we have another poster on this forum who adds helpful information in normal/sane human-sized chunks, and actually listens and responds to others, admitting when he gets something wrong ... and that's good for everyone who reads the forum! I'll be happy being wrong if that's the case.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Look, I win either way here. If you keep to your standard pattern in the future, I don't have to say a thing, and you've proved me right.

If you prove me wrong, we have another poster on this forum who adds helpful information in normal/sane human-sized chunks, and actually listens and responds to others, admitting when he gets something wrong ... and that's good for everyone who reads the forum! I'll be happy being wrong if that's the case.

I am not sure what game you think you are "winning" or "losing". I don't think anyone else is playing with you.

Just stop your attempts at shutting down discussions because you have a completely arbirtary preference on post length, and a dislike for being disagreed with. It isn't helping anyone.

If you think I have said something incorrect on these forums, I would be happy to discuss it, rather than shutting down the conversation.

[Ripqozko]

Yup, nonsensical reason indeed. Please explain to new users what you mean. I honestly don't understand myself.

How am I a snake by posting video and log evidence from the game to back up my points and help other users learn more about the game?

Do you think I am somehow faking all of this? What possible motive could I have to try and post fake evidence to lead people astray?

If I wanted to troll people, it is way easier to just post troll comments, plenty of users already do that, and I wouldn't need to spend hours of my own time doing game reasearch.



Thanks Chortles!

996

[Toxigen]

Jesus Christ here we go again.

[bcbrown]

Yup, nonsensical reason indeed. Please explain to new users what you mean. I honestly don't understand myself.

As a newer person myself, but who's had ample time to read these forums on med breaks over the past couple months, perhaps I can explain; it might be easier to hear from someone other than the forum regulars who are always insulting you.

You clearly try to be helpful, and when you confine your discussion to strictly factual topics I do often learn something from you. I've watched a couple of your youtube videos, and they helped me understand what it's like to play a 60 torpor shaman.

But when the topic is less strictly factual or more subjective, it's much harder to give credence to what you say. Your reasoning and analysis are often obviously faulty. You shift the goalposts of what position you're trying to defend whenever it becomes clear you're defending a losing position.

You're incapable of conceding a trivial point of debate, to the point of completely derailing threads. When your arguments get challenged, you'll frequently say something like "but we're talking about X, not Y", when no one other than you has been talking about X.

When your debating habits frustrate other people (understandable) and they resort to personal insults (slightly less understandable), you defend yourself by saying you're just trying to educate newer players. Take it from a newer player: bloating a thread to hundreds of pages squabbling over trivia is not educational.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about, from the thread at hand. You start out saying:

When you hit 45 you can use JBB. If you were killing guards to level from 25-40, you may have enough money to buy a JBB. JBB alone can easily level you solo from 45-60. That is what I did. I didn't have my Epic when leveling from 45-60. Having your Epic is nice, but it is much more expensive.

When you get challenged on that, you start talking about what you did back in the day:

It depends on how many guards you kill. I got enough plat for JBB killing Misty Thicket Guards from 25-40, but that was back when there was an extra guard or two on the wall, and the spawn timers were 6 mins each (it has sadly been changed).

Do you understand that this is utterly useless? Saying that it used to be possible doesn't help a new player asking about how it feels to solo a self-funded new shaman. Instead, it made this thread all about you and your past interactions with other posters who are sick of your debating style. I know you didn't intend for that to happen, but I hope you can recognize it, reflect on it, and perhaps attempt in the future to not engage when someone disagrees with your argument. State your piece and then step away. That would be far more helpful for the new players you say you want to help.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

As a newer person myself, but who's had ample time to read these forums on med breaks over the past couple months, perhaps I can explain; it might be easier to hear from someone other than the forum regulars who are always insulting you.

You clearly try to be helpful, and when you confine your discussion to strictly factual topics I do often learn something from you. I've watched a couple of your youtube videos, and they helped me understand what it's like to play a 60 torpor shaman.

But when the topic is less strictly factual or more subjective, it's much harder to give credence to what you say. Your reasoning and analysis are often obviously faulty. You shift the goalposts of what position you're trying to defend whenever it becomes clear you're defending a losing position.

You're incapable of conceding a trivial point of debate, to the point of completely derailing threads. When your arguments get challenged, you'll frequently say something like "but we're talking about X, not Y", when no one other than you has been talking about X.

When your debating habits frustrate other people (understandable) and they resort to personal insults (slightly less understandable), you defend yourself by saying you're just trying to educate newer players. Take it from a newer player: bloating a thread to hundreds of pages squabbling over trivia is not educational.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about, from the thread at hand. You start out saying:



When you get challenged on that, you start talking about what you did back in the day:



Do you understand that this is utterly useless? Saying that it used to be possible doesn't help a new player asking about how it feels to solo a self-funded new shaman. Instead, it made this thread all about you and your past interactions with other posters who are sick of your debating style. I know you didn't intend for that to happen, but I hope you can recognize it, reflect on it, and perhaps attempt in the future to not engage when someone disagrees with your argument. State your piece and then step away. That would be far more helpful for the new players you say you want to help.

There are a number of issues to address here:

1. The problem is there are many different opinions on this forum as to what "factual" and "subjective" are. Some people on this forum seem to believe the Math of how much HP you get per hour via regeneration is not "factual". Because of this, a lot of people will accuse me of "mixing fact and subjectivity". Usually when they say this, it is actually wrong, and they are trying to claim subjectivity where it isn't subjective. Can you give an actual quote of me doing this?

2. I am completely fine with conceding points. Again, can you give me an example? Often times the person is actually wrong, so conceding isn't the proper course of action. Should we just let people continue saying wrong information because it is "derailing" the conversation by not letting them get away with it?

3. The people who are throwing out the insults and trolling people are bloating the thread, not myself. They can choose to not troll, and refuse to do so. The reason why they keep posting so much nonsense is to bury what they don't like under said trolling and insults, so people can't find the opinions of the people they are trolling.

4. It is silly for you to claim that me talking about my past experiences "makes the thread about myself". I never start these conversations where people just come in and derail the conversation with things like "don't talk to this player". Don't blame me for what other people do.

5. You can farm 20k killing guards from 20-45 as a casual player, even today. Anybody who says otherwise is just wrong. If you can play 1-2 hours a day and farm just 50 platinum, you will have 18kpp in a year (365 days). That is quite casual, and very achievable. Often times you should be able to farm more than 50pp. Even today you can get up to 60pp per 30 minutes killing Misty Thicket Guards.

6. The reason why I bring up what I did in the past is because it is an example of a casual player like myself successfully getting enough platinum to afford JBB while it was still a good leveling tool. I specifically tell people my method is no longer viable so they don't inevitably ask what I did.

7. Finally, people don't really understand what "moving the goalposts" means either. It's easy to think I do that since people keep accusing me of it, but please give examples, and I will be able to show you I did not. Usually people think I "move goalposts" because they skim my replies and miss things.

[Ripqozko]

There are a number of issues to address here:

1. The problem is there are many different opinions on this forum as to what "factual" and "subjective" are. Some people on this forum seem to believe the Math of how much HP you get per hour via regeneration is not "factual". Because of this, a lot of people will accuse me of "mixing fact and subjectivity". Usually when they say this, it is actually wrong, and they are trying to claim subjectivity where it isn't subjective. Can you give an actual quote of me doing this?

2. I am completely fine with conceding points. Again, can you give me an example? Often times the person is actually wrong, so conceding isn't the proper course of action. Should we just let people continue saying wrong information because it is "derailing" the conversation by not letting them get away with it?

3. The people who are throwing out the insults and trolling people are bloating the thread, not myself. They can choose to not troll, and refuse to do so. The reason why they keep posting so much nonsense is to bury what they don't like under said trolling and insults, so people can't find their opinions.

4. It is silly for you to claim that me talking about my past experiences "makes the thread about myself". I never start these conversations where people just come in and derail the conversation with things like "don't talk to this player". Don't blame me for what other people do.

5. You can farm 20k killing guards from 20-45 as a casual player, even today. Anybody who says otherwise is just wrong. If you can play 1-2 hours a day and farm just 50 platinum, you will have 18kpp. That is quite casual, and very achievable.

6. The reason why I bring up what I did in the past is because it is an example of a casual player like myself successfully getting enough platinum to afford JBB while it was still a good leveling tool. I specifically tell people my method is no longer viable so they don't inevitably ask what I did.

7. Finally, people don't really understand what "moving the goalposts" means either. It's easy to think I do that since people keep accusing me of it, but please give examples, and I will be able to show you I did not. Usually people think I "move goalposts" because they skim my replies and miss things.

995

[Snaggles]

I feel so bad for the OP.

Shaman's are great Vanessa. They are either demigods or full-fledge gods. If you like the class you should play one.

[Solist]

Make any class. Get to 60. Join vanquish or riot. Farm dkp warm bodying on bots & RTE and AFK in VP FTE, buy BiS tradable for 'alts' (tag a level 5 monk, warrior, etc to buy them AoW legs/helms/KT boots). Sell that shit and fund your twink of choice and join the other guild.

P99 101. Doing anything else is borderline waste of your time. Buying spells on p99 is dumb, they're all 1dkp in vanquish/riot, log on a VP bot each dragon and just buy what you need. For all other spells they're in the bank.

[Danth]

Folks who've been on P99 awhile are inevitably going to talk about things that aren't possible anymore due to the many changes the game has underent over the course of its now-lengthy history. Nothing wrong with that; today's newbie will get there too if he sticks around long enough.

The main problem with the most effective money-making methods for leveling players is that they also tend to be extremely boring. Grinding guards for six months can make a person a decent stack of cash....if he's still in the game at all and hasn't quit due to burnout. Playing the game organically as it was meant for, going around to the different zones, etc, is usually more fun but tends to leave the player relatively broke. The lower- and middle-range items that may drop from such areas seldom have much value these days due to P99's age and relative limited supply of new players entering the game leading to depressed demand for lower-end goods.

--------------------------------------------------------

Without the handful of expensive high-end spells and items, a shaman is still at least a mid-range class in terms of its strength and utility. It won't be a "solo god" without them, but it's a valuable smallman group partner and contributes to any of the popular higher-end group areas with the right team. Treat lacking those spells/items as requiring you to add about +1 or +2 people over what the kitted-out shaman would need. If he can solo something, at worst the incomplete shaman can duo or trio the same thing. For the most part, gear at level 60 doesn't so much open up new areas as it tends to reduce the number of people needed to do stuff. Group content becomes smallman, smallman becomes solo, etc. The lesser-geared people can do the same stuff, just maybe need more folks to do it.

Shaman, even at its strongest, tends to be slow-and-steady. It's the tortise compared to the enchanters' hare.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I 100% agree with Danth here.

As he says, most (if not all) effective methods for farming cash from 1-55 are boring and grindy, especially if you can only play casually. Casual players typically can't even break the grinding pattern by camping items, because it takes too long to set up the camp initially, and placeholders will prevent you from just rolling the dice occasionally to see if you get something.

A typical "casual" play session of about an hour will generally look like this:
1. Login
2. Kill a few things (generally guards if you want consistent plat, and you aren't a Druid)
3. Maybe vendor/bank
4. Logout

However, if you stick it out, you will get the cash. If you can farm even 50 plat per day, you will have 18k in a year. Once you are in your 30s you should be able to bump that number up to 100-200 plat per day, so it shouldn't take a full year to get the plat for a JBB. I understand that is a long time for people, but Classic Everquest is a marathon for casual players, not a sprint.

And yes, Shamans can solo without any expensive gear, it is simply slower. Root/Rotting is an effective strategy from 14-60. But again, for a casual player it will take months of leveling to get all the way to 60. If that doesn't sound appealing to you, P99 may not be your game.

[Ripqozko]

I 100% agree with Danth here.

As he says, most (if not all) effective methods for farming cash from 1-55 are boring and grindy, especially if you can only play casually. Casual players typically can't even break the grinding pattern by camping items, because it takes too long to set up the camp initially, and placeholders will prevent you from just rolling the dice occasionally to see if you get something.

A typical "casual" play session of about an hour will generally look like this:
1. Login
2. Kill a few things (generally guards if you want consistent plat, and you aren't a Druid)
3. Maybe vendor/bank
4. Logout

However, if you stick it out, you will get the cash. If you can farm even 50 plat per day, you will have 18k in a year. Once you are in your 30s you should be able to bump that number up to 100-200 plat per day, so it shouldn't take a full year to get the plat for a JBB. I understand that is a long time for people, but Classic Everquest is a marathon for casual players, not a sprint.

And yes, Shamans can solo without any expensive gear, it is simply slower. Root/Rotting is an effective strategy from 14-60. But again, for a casual player it will take months of leveling to get all the way to 60. If that doesn't sound appealing to you, P99 may not be your game.

994

[Maschenny]

Shaman threads are easily the best class discussions on the forums.

[Tann]

Shaman threads are easily the best class discussions on the forums.

What is the consensus on innate regen vs. frontal stun immunity?

:D

[Maschenny]

What is the consensus on innate regen vs. frontal stun immunity?

:D

We haven't reached a concensus yet. Coming soon though. I prefer FSI. Personal preference.

Edit: just noticed the smiley face. That was a rhetorical question.

[Snaggles]

What is the consensus on innate regen vs. frontal stun immunity?

:D

No. Please God No.

[Jimjam]

What is the consensus on innate regen vs. frontal stun immunity?

:D

Poor alternatives to a miniskirt and furry hat.

[Encroaching Death]

What is the consensus on innate regen vs. frontal stun immunity?

:D

I'll take the bait.

Let me preface that my shaman is an Ogre.

FSI is really only helpful late game, but can't be substituted with any item.

Regen really starts getting good levels 50+. Levels 50-60 are going to be most of your playtime, even though it's only 10 levels.

Most Shamans will be getting their Epic, JBB, Fungi(s), Late game spells like Bane before they have a chance at getting Torpor (which 'negates' regen).

All Shamans have their perks.

Play what you want.

But Trolls make me sick.

Greasy diaper boys. Disgusting.

[Tann]

Poor alternatives to a miniskirt and furry hat.

You've seen my browser search history :(


Greasy diaper boys.

https://i.imgur.com/atSeLok.gif

[HalflingWarrior]

They're fine.

Arguably quite weak until 34 but they CAN solo through it. After that things will get a lot easier but not exactly great. However, soloing to 60 will be an OK experience, at least in comparison to leveling to 60 on any class using standard methods.

You'll also be able to group. Slow, regen, dex - they all certainly help.

If you're a troll that'll help your downtime noticably at 50+ too.

The challenge is making enough plat to get things like JBB, epic, fungi and torpor. However, once you have torpor JBB isn't as useful and fungi too loses most of its value. Just make sure to get the epic and torpor and you'll be gravy. Epic is hard on any class but not so hard for shamans in comparison to other classes, just get the faction required as you level up and join a decent guild. If you wanna play on Green or Blue you could probably pick up a Vindi BP without TOO much raiding required, it'll beat fungi once you get Torpor. Some guilds will provide dropped spells during raids like torpor for free to anyone who can scribe it.

Years ago when I played our guild have out probably a million plat worth of Torpor spells to Shaman who needed the spell. The idea that the spell HAS TO BE BOUGHT to be acquired is really shortsighted

[Toxigen]

What is the consensus on innate regen vs. frontal stun immunity?

:D

You're opening a big ole can of worms if DSM sees this, but the unbiased truth of the matter is as follows:

If you're into soloing big, dangerous targets then FSI reigns supreme.

Innate regen is better for every other situation / scenario / leveling / etc.

[loramin]

You're opening a big ole can of worms if DSM sees this, but the unbiased truth of the matter is as follows:

If you're into soloing big, dangerous targets then FSI reigns supreme.

Innate regen is better for every other situation / scenario / leveling / etc.

While accurate, you're overstating the case. Neither power really matters much, and my Barbarian Shaman (with neither) can still solo everything an Ogre or Troll can just fine.

[loramin]

You're opening a big ole can of worms if DSM sees this, but the unbiased truth of the matter is as follows:

If you're into soloing big, dangerous targets then FSI reigns supreme.

Innate regen is better for every other situation / scenario / leveling / etc.

While accurate, you're overstating the case with language like "reigns supreme". Neither power really matters much, and my Barbarian Shaman with neither can still solo everything an Ogre can just fine.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you're into soloing big, dangerous targets then FSI reigns supreme.


Exactly. Once you get Torpor, that is when you solo big, dangerous targets. This is why FSI is the best end-game racial (post-Torpor).


Innate regen is better for every other situation / scenario / leveling / etc.


"Every other situation/secnario" is very vague, but pre-Torpor (leveling) you are 100% correct. Regen is the best racial until you get Torpor (pre-Torpor).

You're opening a big ole can of worms if DSM sees this, but the unbiased truth of the matter is as follows:


Not sure why there is any can of worms or bias if the unbiased truth is what I have been saying the entire time. It sounds like you agree with me.

The arguments usually occur with the few people on these forums who believe regen has some mystic power. It's easy to math out exactly how much regen helps you, but a few people don't believe it for some reason. That is why they think it's going to be better than FSI in all scenarios, even soloing big targets.

[Tann]

You're opening a big ole can of worms if DSM sees this, but the unbiased truth of the matter is as follows:

If you're into soloing big, dangerous targets then FSI reigns supreme.

Innate regen is better for every other situation / scenario / leveling / etc.

A joke, I know we'll and good the FSI/regen debate is a heated subject as old as time!

Regen is king for me, a filthy casual, who will probably never hit 60 on my shaman and definitely won't acquire torpor. I know Torps has dropped in half price wise as of late (on blue) but that's still 50-60k I've not the will power to farm.

It sadly makes more sense for someone like me who plays a few hours a day solo (off peak) to play a class that doesn't require 100k+ just for spells, heck I could probably level an enchanter 1-60 then farm some decent ticket drops to fund a shaman way faster than capping shaman and slowly kill guards for 6 months.

[Crede]

FSI isn’t what it used to be when every mob bash was a stun. Do you want an occasional stun resist or a constant regen advantage that never goes away and maybe a snare clicky? Despite what people try to tell you there is no correct answer(hence the endless debates) so it really comes down to personal preference.

If I were to make a new shaman today it would probably be iksar for regen, size, best resists, and robe fashion. The CT undead fear clicky can also come in handy on iksar/troll.

[loramin]

If I were to make a new shaman today it would probably be iksar for regen, size, best resists, and robe fashion. The CT undead fear clicky can also come in handy on iksar/troll.

Troll gets regen also, and also gets the JBB. JBB > undead fear clicky and a few more resists ... but if you like the leezard people fashion, that's a legitimate reason to choose them :)

[Encroaching Death]

that's a legitimate reason to choose them :)

Iksars don't have diaper-butt when running with SoW.

It's worth giving up JBB to save yourself the nightmare of being subjected to that for hours.

[Toxigen]

Yeah I'd probably go Iksar too because robe = BiS fashion and in 2023 there isn't anything else that matters.

Mines barb fwiw...kinda inherited the char at lvl 40 tho.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

FSI isn’t what it used to be when every mob bash was a stun. Do you want an occasional stun resist or a constant regen advantage that never goes away and maybe a snare clicky? Despite what people try to tell you there is no correct answer(hence the endless debates) so it really comes down to personal preference.

If I were to make a new shaman today it would probably be iksar for regen, size, best resists, and robe fashion. The CT undead fear clicky can also come in handy on iksar/troll.

The main reason why FSI is better than regen once you have Torpor is because the most critical part of any fight is the first minute, when you are trying to slow the mob. FSI can be the difference between a loss (can't slow), and getting the mob under control.

In a 15 minute fight, you are getting 1200 HP via standing regen on an Iksar/Troll vs. Ogre/Barbarian. 1200 HP is the equivalent of 1 Torpor, which is 180 mana. It's very rare that the difference in a win/loss was 1 Torpor. It's much more common for a loss to occur at the beginning of the fight. That is why FSI is better with Torpor.

Regen also does nothing when at full health, and a Torpor Shaman is usually at full health, because it takes 3 minutes or less to canni back to full HP/Mana when out of combat.

Outside of soloing, both FSI and Regen do little once you have Torpor. Racials are mostly useful for soloing. In groups the other players are giving you way more regen than any racial could, since you normally don't have to tank damage (which also means you aren't using FSI). Same thing in Raiding. Mobs kill you so fast that regen does nothing most of the time, and there are only a few seconds in which FSI may do something.

Obviously fashion is fashion, so w/e tickles your fancy:)

[Toxigen]

there goes the neighborhood

[Encroaching Death]

Next controversial question: What's better for Shaman? WIS or STA/HP?

[Toxigen]

Next controversial question: What's better for Shaman? WIS or STA/HP?

both

[Encroaching Death]

both

25 Wis/5 Sta at character creation

Or

25 Sta/5 Wis at character creation?

Also, if someone sees this and creates a Shaman....buy my Fungi staff. I'm selling one.

[Toxigen]

25 Wis/5 Sta at character creation

Or

25 Sta/5 Wis at character creation?



yes

[Encroaching Death]

yes

Someone will bite the bait at some point, hopefully

[DeathsSilkyMist]

In Velious STA is easier to max than WIS, so WIS is the min/max option (25 WIS/ 5 STA, or 25 WIS / 5 AGI for Ogre).

[zelld52]

Didn't read any of this, but I did level a shaman 1-60 last year. I did 1-55 without much gear. At 54, I took a break and farmed Sebilis for plat for weeks. Bought a Fungi and did 55-60 with Fungi. Sold Fungi at 58 and bought Torpor, stashed it away for 60.

1-24 was a slog. Every fight was Drowsy, miss 12 melee swings in a row -- 5 minutes later it's dead.

At 24, I started DoTing along with Drowsy tanking, cannibalize and regen made it pretty easy to stay 70% mana or more at all times.

At 34, I Drowsy tanked with pet behind. Cannibalizing with Chloroplast and Bind Wound during downtime. I absolutely flew from 34-45 in about 3-4 days.

At 45, I duod with monks and rogues. Same strategy. Drowsy tanking with melee behind.

34-45, I did alot of guards, and hill giants. Had 15k saved up and bought a discounted JBB.

46-51 was Root, JBB until dead. Bloodgills - then CoM until I finished my epic faction with pages.

51-54 was the slowest. JBB wasn't strong enough and I didn't have epic yet. I did Kaladim guards, face tanking with pet, Turgur's, and JBB spam.

At the end of 54, i finally finished my epic. And it was off to the races. At 56, I got Paralyzing Earth and every fight was the same. Root 4 melee mobs, Malaisement, Paralyzing Earth, epic click. Refresh epic every 1m 30s on mobs, and refresh root every 2 epic clicks per mob. Repeat until 60.



Few notes:

-Bind Wound. It goes perfectly with Cannibalize. Shaman get 200 bind wound by level 40, which is 33hp per tick. Combined with Regen its 38 per tick, 43 per tick with Chloro and 48 per tick with Regrowth. (Plus racial regen and any worn) At 56, they can bind to 70%. Works perfect while root rotting. Canni Down > Bind Up
-Save up for a JBB. It's still good at 60, and made the 46-54 soo much better than trying to DoT mobs.
-21% Haste, Poison Wind Censer, and some HP/AC rings is all you need to get to 45.
-Drowsy is the best slow until Turgurs, in my opinion. It's 25% slow (guaranteed 25% less damage from mob) and only 20 mana. 2.5s cast.... compared to 5s cast from Tagar's / Togor's. Excellent spell to pull with.

[Crawdad]

How well does a level Shaman solo level / farm things, compared to other classes who solo level like Druid, Necro and Mage etc.?

Personally I found Shaman really boring to level and gave up at 49. 1-24 was an absolute slog, even with haste+fungi+pwc. 24-34 was more of the same, just with canni. 34-49 was.. more of the same, just with a pet and slightly better spells.

Solo, you're basically a melee with no melee skills, Meh slow, Meh DoTs, and you'll fight that way until ~50+. You eventually get a pet and spells that aren't so Meh and some fun toys (Fungi staff, JBB stuff, Snare neck, etc).

Grouping, you spend all your time buffing/rebuffing and then canni'ing for your lame heals. Being stuck with Greater Healing from 29 to 51 absolutely blows. Yes, Torpor is amazing, but that's after 60 levels and an ungodly amount of plat/lucking out.

A 60 geared shaman is a lot of fun, and I enjoyed mine a lot on Live... because I didn't level deck it out.

[Raj]

A talented shaman will truly take you on a serious mental road-trip of introspection or even finally making some really tough but healthy decisions in your life if you physically and mentally prepare well for the journey.

Stay strong my friends! :cool:

[Raj]

In Velious STA is easier to max than WIS, so WIS is the min/max option (25 WIS/ 5 STA, or 25 WIS / 5 AGI for Ogre).

WIS is very good overall to boost early but I wonder how well the average iksar shaman casual raider gets to maxing their STA. I am just curious. :cool:

[Encroaching Death]

A talented shaman will truly take you on a serious mental road-trip of introspection or even finally making some really tough but healthy decisions in your life if you physically and mentally prepare well for the journey.

Stay strong my friends! :cool:

I wonder how many WW dragons this guy soloed:

LXOeeTPcRIw

[DeathsSilkyMist]

WIS is very good overall to boost early but I wonder how well the average iksar shaman casual raider gets to maxing their STA. I am just curious. :cool:

Shamans get a +50 STA buff, but only a +10 WIS buff from Bear Form. An Iksar with 80 STA and 115 WIS (25 WIS / 5 STA split) is going to have 130 STA and 125 WIS self-buffed and naked. So you still have more STA than WIS. A casual raider can get Vindi BP and Othmir Prexus Totem quite easily, so you are at 165 STA already just from those two items and self buff.

In Velious STR/STA items are a lot more common than items with WIS/INT, and Shamans typically favor the items that make you tankier over the WIS/INT items. So you are typically going to have better STA than WIS.

Obviously there are many item combinations, so this isn't always the case. However, generally speaking the best stat to dump into on character creation is the one that is hardest to cap. My Shaman is STA capped, but still only has like 208 WIS, and I did the 25 WIS / 5 AGI route.

[Raj]

I wonder how many WW dragons this guy soloed:

LXOeeTPcRIw

I like this one better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJaPUFefKx4 :cool: