https://web.archive.org/web/20010223101759/http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum2/HTML/057055.html
MellodieBosque
Station Member posted 02-12-2001 08:14 AM
A handy summary of my post: five reasons why and how a bard is not balanced after level 50 and what can be done about it.
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4. The mesmerize resistant creatures in Velious have changed the dynamics of crowd control immensely. Charm is the prefered method of crowd control in Kael and other such places. However, bards cannot charm anything of significant level (it is possibly capped at level 55, but I am not positive about that) and charming takes huge amounts of mana. As a bard, I could be incredibly useful for crowd control if I could charm giants deep in Kael Drakkel. But I can't because of the level limit. I would suggest that bards get a charm song at level 50 or 51 that did not require mana (so that crowd control doesn't require the bard to sit for mana regen!) and could be used on anything blue or green (so bard soloing is not a significant issue). And while the programmers are at it, *pleeeeease* add no-charm tags to gods, major dragons, and any other powerful beings which are just like the no-mez tags on giants, some golems, cyclops, etc. Charming a god is funny, but it isn't balanced at all.
Dalakar_Daystar
Station Member posted 02-12-2001 08:47 AM
<<pleeeeease* add no-charm tags to gods, major dragons, and any other powerful beings which are just like the no-mez tags on giants, some golems, cyclops, etc. Charming a god is funny, but it isn't balanced at all.>>
Ah, Which brings me to a point I forgot in my wishlist above:
-Bard Mez and 39 Charm will now work on any Mob within a decent level range of the singer. The previous cap of level 51 (I think that's the current level cap) has been removed. If any Mob is not meant to be charmed, they are now flagged as such. Expect this flag on Gods, Dragon Bosses such as Vox, Nagafen, Gorenaire, etc, and certain other monsters
https://web.archive.org/web/20010302182952/http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum2/HTML/057055-3.html
Desbarolis
Station Member posted 02-14-2001 02:29 PM
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Desbarolis, whatever you might say about charming in dungeons, etc, an Enchanter can do it CC better. There is no debating that.
I have been playing a Bard in this game since mid-beta 3..well over 3 years now, and until last May when the 39 charm song was added, Bard crowd control was limited to the low levels.
It is nice to have a higher level charm ability now, but it has hardly been some class defining Bardic role in this game like you want to make it out to be.
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Fair enough, but when I started playing the game, bards had the ability to be good at crowd control and whatnot. (btw, cap on charm is lifted, rumor has it)
Personally I rather like being able to deal high amounts of damage with just songs, but it annoys me a little that our songs go up at the exact same rate (damage-wise) as they did pre-level 50, whereas everyone else's power is increasing by much larger amounts post 50.
Certainly a wizard is in the same boat post 50, as their spells are highly resisted, and it takes them a very long time to regenerate their mana. In velious, their nearly useless against the big stuff.
As for it being a class defining trait, at the outset of the game, your completely accurate that it was not something that was originally intended. But as new things are added, it becomes a class defining trait, like it or not. The cap on charm at 51 I was unaware of, but being able to do crowd control was a very good thing in my eyes.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010204193800/http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum2/HTML/053745.html
Keadaian
Station Member posted 01-31-2001 07:21 PM
I'm going to assume that by balanced, you mean that there is a compelling reason to include a class in a group. Based on that assumption, what are the compelling reasons to invite a player into a group?
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However, what is the compelling reason to include a lvl 50+ bard into a group?
1. Damage doer: Bards can not match the output of a monk, rogue, wizard, warrior, SK, necro, druid, or mage. Probably not a shaman either. Against undead paladins will also outdamage us.
2. Damage taker: Uhhh don't think I need to detail this one :P
3. Crowd control: Our charm hard caps at lvl 51 mobs. Our aoe mezz is worthless and our single target mezz, while improved for the mid range bard, becomes essentialy a non viable solution at this lvl. Enchanters are NOT the only way to go, but they are the primary means of crowd control at higher lvls. Even necro's get a better crowd control than we do.
https://web.archive.org/web/20001208062400/http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum2/HTML/024701-2.html
Pequod
Station Member posted 10-24-2000 12:03 PM
"Verant sure does love bards."
Not so. Ibashbards usually ignored us, nerfed us, or said we were broken as intended (to generalize).
"I guess the fact that they can solo blues at level 50 with little or NO health loss just isn't enough."
With luck, patience, and a willinness to induce carpal-tunnel syndrome, we MAY be able to solo a handful of blues per hour. I don't solo much (1-25 was when I did the lion's share of my solo play), as I picked a support class for a reason.
"Go ahead and step them further over the enchanter line by letting them mez."
Well, we can't really Mez now. I used to Mez with good results back in Cazic (30-35), but found results to be less than impressive as I moved through the 40s. We are so far from anything remotly resembling Enchanters' wonderful CC abilities that your assertion is simply absurd. Can we park a mob? Yes. We will take an awful beating but we can park or charm an extra in a pull of two. Our second charm is capped at 51, so don't try this too deep in the toughest dungeons. Bards don't want to step on Enchanters' toes. We simply want our single-target Mez line to work to the degree that maybe 3 mobs can be mezzed at the expense of all other songs.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010417004102/http://eqsongs.com/NewsArchive/Apr2000.htm
4/19 7:30am - Gordon responds:
Abashi
Station Member posted 04-18-2000 08:49 PM
4/18 7:30am - Updated Solon's Bewitching Bravura it is now limited like other charm songs with a 10 level limit.
https://web.archive.org/web/20001102052758/http://maximumeq.com/news_maxeq/956757174.shtml
New bard charm song costs mana
by Chris - 04/20/00 05:51 EST
And below is the reason.
>>>Now the new Bard charm (Bravura) costs mana. How much mana?
The new song is quite a bit more powerful than the old one. I think that once people get a chance to play with it for a while they'll agree. It is powerful enough that we didn't want people to be able to cast it in perpetuity. That's why mana was added to it.
-Gordon
https://web.archive.org/web/20011109091903/http://eqsongs.com/NewsArchive/July2000.htm
7/17 1:45pm - Another interesting charm tidbit from the Stations new Bug board, not sure if this effects Solon's Bewitching Bravura or not. But it may account for the conflicting reports of what the cap is for Bravura.
Author Topic: Enchanter spell bugged.
_Hobart_
Station Member posted 07-13-2000 02:43 PM
Ok, for the post 50 charm line of spells.
They work different on Kunark then they do on Norrath. They are made so you cannot charm creatures higher then level 52 on Norrath. They do however work on much higher creatures in Kunark. That's all the info I can provide.
Hobart
This is NOT a bug
7/17 11:45am - Ester the Tester makes her first appearance on the Song Analysis :). Here is a quote from here regarding Iksar NPCs and charm:
Author Topic: Iksar can't be charmed... Bug?
Serreneliss
Station Member posted 07-13-2000 01:16 AM
I have battled the Iksar Exiles (about level 27 npcs) in Warslilks woods and they ALWAYS resist charm. I have also confirmed with other Enchanters of level 50+ that have been completely unable to charm even the lowest level Iksar npcs.
Is this intentional? Or a bug?
If it is intentional, may I humbly request a message other than resist be activated when you attempt to charm the Iksar.
If I had heard:
"Your spell has no effect on this creature"
instead of the basic resist message then I wouldn't have died nearly so many times trying. =)
EsterTheTester
Station Member posted 07-13-2000 01:58 PM
Not a bug, feature =)