"Spyware" dll in P99's patch files.

[Calmethar]

Playing on P99 should come with a warning of P99 forcing you to download their DLL injection file called "dsetup.dll".

The modification of this file means that they can basically see every window you have open.

So essentially "laws" are being broken to uphold "rules".

Most will probably agree, that that's quite the slippery slope. Or at least everyone actually valueing their privacy or at least their right to privacy.

P99 should probably spend their donation money on a decent lawyer by now, as this is very invasive and quite illegal in most countries.

Just to let everyone know. Carry on.

[Tunabros]

no one cares

[Teako]

Playing on P99 should come with a warning of P99 forcing you to download their DLL injection file called "dsetup.dll".

The modification of this file means that they can basically see every window you have open.

So essentially "laws" are being broken to uphold "rules".

Most will probably agree, that that's quite the slippery slope. Or at least everyone actually valueing their privacy or at least their right to privacy.

P99 should probably spend their donation money on a decent lawyer by now, as this is very invasive and quite illegal in most countries.

Just to let everyone know. Carry on.

You agree to the terms by playing here. This is a private server, utilizing private files. All participation is 100% voluntary. No lawyer would touch this with a billion foot pole.

You are insane.

[Crawdad]

So essentially "laws" are being broken to uphold "rules".



Its been a boring morning, can you list the laws for our resident young lawyers to parse?

[Calmethar]

You agree to the terms by playing here. This is a private server, utilizing private files. All participation is 100% voluntary. No lawyer would touch this with a billion foot pole.

You are insane.You're quite wrong. Something as intrusive as this at the very least has to be stated very clearly for any participants.

[Calmethar]

no one caresYou probably don't, no. To each his or her own. Move along then, thanks.

[Calmethar]

Its been a boring morning, can you list the laws for our resident young lawyers to parse?If you wish to file any case, I'd suggest you contact an attorney in your country of residence. That's entirely up to you.

[-TK-]

To each his or her own. Move along then, thanks.

Same applies to you. FYI this has been this way for about a decade and has been discussed at length by the community repeatedly. Funny thing, the lawyers haven't shown up yet. Maybe you should give yours a call since you're so upset and see how interested they are in taking up the case.

[Crawdad]

If you wish to file any case, I'd suggest you contact an attorney in your country of residence. That's entirely up to you.

You got me all riled up with talk of broken laws but now you get all shy? You're a terrible fluffer my dude.

[Calmethar]

Same applies to you. FYI this has been this way for about a decade and has been discussed at length by the community repeatedly. Funny thing, the lawyers haven't shown up yet. Maybe you should give yours a call since you're so upset and see how interested they are in taking up the case.You're also quite wrong, I'm not upset in any way. I just want to let everyone know how things are run, since it's not stated clearly anywhere here on the Project 1999 website. As per my original post: "Just to let everyone know".

[Calmethar]

You got me all riled up with talk of broken laws but now you get all shy? You're a terrible fluffer my dude.No matter if you buy a product or not, the same laws apply. Depending on the country, of course. P99 has a decent scale, so this spyware affects quite the number of people, who're for the most part entirely without knowledge of actually being surveilled. That's quite illegal, and has only been ongoing for so long, as 99.9 % doesn't actually know, or doesn't know the actual scale of it.

[Rogean]

If you think what we're doing is bad, wait until you see what companies like Daybreak, Blizzard, and Riot are doing. Wooo boy does it pale in comparison.

But no, we are not collecting your processes/windows. The DLL gets flagged by Antiviruses because it uses obfuscation technologies. Those technologies are also commonly used by viruses, so if an AV company decided to blacklist sections of the obfuscation code, then it will flag. We do attempt to improve that by code signing and reporting to the AV companies when needed.

[Crawdad]

who're for the most part entirely without knowledge of actually being surveilled

My guy did you try Googling "p99 spyware"? Maybe check the dates given with the links? Somehow miss all the websites hosting comments on it? Shield your eyes when it displayed www.project.1999.com? Chant dark verses and gnash your teeth when it gave Rogean as the commenter?

[Hideousclaw]

this ragefest smells of someone who got caught boxing and is big sad mad bad about it. seek help not boxing, or be better at it and dont use the same computer dummy

[Menden]

this ragefest smells of someone who got caught boxing and is big sad mad bad about it. seek help not boxing, or be better at it and dont use the same computer dummy

[Jibartik]

OP just buy the nike's.

[Goldknyght]

Playing on P99 should come with a warning of P99 forcing you to download their DLL injection file called "dsetup.dll".

The modification of this file means that they can basically see every window you have open.

So essentially "laws" are being broken to uphold "rules".

Most will probably agree, that that's quite the slippery slope. Or at least everyone actually valueing their privacy or at least their right to privacy.

P99 should probably spend their donation money on a decent lawyer by now, as this is very invasive and quite illegal in most countries.

Just to let everyone know. Carry on.

this is a govt spy. 40 posts and now is questioning spyware haha. guess he works for the CIA and is telling us how they are doing it. just a heads up. so thanks i guess but we already know blizzard example here.

https://youtu.be/B3TpkbC6uaI

[Spithridates]

Say "quite" again.

[Goldknyght]

shouldnt this thread be moved to rants and flames?

[Chortles Snortles]

Rogean, can I have please have a copy of my nudes folder from three computers ago. Thanks in advance.

[Gustoo]

OP your topic sucks but I’m giving it 5 stars because Rogean posted here.

Please discuss Red rogean

[Seidin]

Lots of applications monitor things, especially when online gameplay is involved. So far it's been ok for me.

I've only had Menden remind me once to fix my tie when it was a little off, I appreciate the extra effort tbh.

[Duik]

Ya cant spell Calmethar without using meth.

[Calmethar]

If you think what we're doing is bad, wait until you see what companies like Daybreak, Blizzard, and Riot are doing. Wooo boy does it pale in comparison.

But no, we are not collecting your processes/windows. The DLL gets flagged by Antiviruses because it uses obfuscation technologies. Those technologies are also commonly used by viruses, so if an AV company decided to blacklist sections of the obfuscation code, then it will flag. We do attempt to improve that by code signing and reporting to the AV companies when needed.

"The others are also doing it, and they're even worse than us, see....!"

Nah, Rogean, that doesn't quite (there you go, Spithridates) cut it.

What you are doing ís bad. That's the entire point here. And you especially know that you've hit the nail perfectly on the head when the trolls all surface immediately after ;-)

Your "we are not collecting your processes/windows" is a statement that you can't possibly prove, so it doesn't really get us anywhere. And the potential constant monitoring of thousands of players processes/windows are "bad" enough here, Rogean, you don't even have to be collecting anything, you obviously know that already.

So why not just start owing up to some of this by putting a huge sign alongside your "patch files" on your front page, stating that you're monitoring peoples windows in order to uphold your "rules". That would be the honest thing to do and at least a start, but you don't really have any intentions of actually informing 99.9 % of your players, do you now, Rogean ;-)

And "obfuscation technologies", haha, good one ;-)

[Tann]

Synonyms for "quite", ref https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/quite

absolutely
actually
altogether
entirely
fully
largely
perfectly
really
thoroughly
totally
truly
utterly
wholly
all
all in all
all told
considerably
in all respects
in fact
in reality
in toto
in truth
just
positively
precisely
purely
well
without reservation

[Calmethar]

Synonyms for "quite", ref https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/quite

absolutely
actually
altogether
entirely
fully
largely
perfectly
really
thoroughly
totally
truly
utterly
wholly
all
all in all
all told
considerably
in all respects
in fact
in reality
in toto
in truth
just
positively
precisely
purely
well
without reservationYou go right ahead and use those then. How completely wonderful for you ;-)

[Toxigen]

Ya cant spell Calmethar without using meth.

rofl

[Calmethar]

roflOh, the humor the trolls have these days. Gotta hand it to them. So hilarious. Or...

[Chortles Snortles]

i got caught cheating and am big mad

[Calmethar]

i got caught cheating and am big madPeople voluntarily playing any game whatsoever with this kind of spyware attached to it clearly isn't the smartest bunch, as we can also see right here ;-)

[Chortles Snortles]

imagine not playing a volunteer emu project on a VM or burner laptop
(lol)

[Allishia]

People voluntarily playing any game whatsoever with this kind of spyware attached to it clearly isn't the smartest bunch, as we can also see right here ;-)

They can spy on me if they want, all I do is listen to music on YouTube and play eq/ guildwars 2 :p

[Rogean]

"The others are also doing it, and they're even worse than us, see....!"

Nah, Rogean, that doesn't quite (there you go, Spithridates) cut it.

What you are doing ís bad. That's the entire point here. And you especially know that you've hit the nail perfectly on the head when the trolls all surface immediately after ;-)

Your "we are not collecting your processes/windows" is a statement that you can't possibly prove, so it doesn't really get us anywhere. And the potential constant monitoring of thousands of players processes/windows are "bad" enough here, Rogean, you don't even have to be collecting anything, you obviously know that already.

So why not just start owing up to some of this by putting a huge sign alongside your "patch files" on your front page, stating that you're monitoring peoples windows in order to uphold your "rules". That would be the honest thing to do and at least a start, but you don't really have any intentions of actually informing 99.9 % of your players, do you now, Rogean ;-)

And "obfuscation technologies", haha, good one ;-)

I have a lot of tolerance for the various things people have accused me of over the years, but straight up calling me a liar without proof (haha you actually asked me to prove your accusations wrong ? That's not how things work) is one thing I have very little patience for. That's where the conversation ends.

[Allishia]

Thank you for the awesome free server to play on! Do what you gotta do to not let boxers and macroquesters ruin it ty!

[Calmethar]

I have a lot of tolerance for the various things people have accused me of over the years, but straight up calling me a liar without proof (haha you actually asked me to prove your accusations wrong ? That's not how things work) is one thing I have very little patience for. That's where the conversation ends.Where exactly did I call you a liar, Rogean. That's right, that did not happen. This is the exact sentence:
"Your "we are not collecting your processes/windows" is a statement that you can't possibly prove, so it doesn't really get us anywhere."

But yea, you clearly have very little "tolerance", and have to resort to censorship. I didn't think it would take you this long actually ;-)

[Chortles Snortles]

mad

[Jibartik]

OP: Dont trust the dll!
P99:

https://i.imgur.com/PxrqACW.gif

[Hideousclaw]

People voluntarily playing any game whatsoever with this kind of spyware attached to it clearly isn't the smartest bunch, as we can also see right here ;-)

Smart would be not using the same computer to box, so you’d have less a chance to get caught. Be less mad sad bad and get better at subverting the simple rules you’re asked to abide by when playing on this server.

I hope you find peace in that you’re bad at this game.

[Toxigen]

I have a lot of tolerance for the various things people have accused me of over the years, but straight up calling me a liar without proof (haha you actually asked me to prove your accusations wrong ? That's not how things work) is one thing I have very little patience for. That's where the conversation ends.

What about calling your employer and claiming you're a racist bigoted anti-semite?

God that was a great guest appearance on Galach's stream.

[Tann]

Where exactly did I call you a liar, Rogean.

"we are not collecting your processes/windows" is a statement that you can't possibly prove

[goblinmob]

I just installed P99 on my ex's laptop. Now that we're broke up do I have to tell her or will I go to jail too??

[Duik]

Oh, the humor the trolls have these days. Gotta hand it to them. So hilarious. Or...

First up you whinge about it on your own behalf, then ya change tack and say imma only trying to save you plebs.
Well consider mesa edjumacated. You saved us!
You are now telling us we need saving cuz da bad man is dll trolling our information so he can what, see our noodie shots (sumjuan mentioned them earlier)?
Trust your vaxx (antivirus) or live on the edge.
Just choose one.
Not a troll, just trying to dll hel(l)p you.

[Goldknyght]

First up you whinge about it on your own behalf, then ya change tack and say imma only trying to save you plebs.
Well consider mesa edjumacated. You saved us!
You are now telling us we need saving cuz da bad man is dll trolling our information so he can what, see our noodie shots (sumjuan mentioned them earlier)?
Trust your vaxx (antivirus) or live on the edge.
Just choose one.
Not a troll, just trying to dll hel(l)p you.

He is just DSM doing FORUMQUEST right now. dont give him the satisfaction like ROGEAN did. His Forumquest first turn in was successful. Yea I did defend him on another post, but with this one i think cd288 might be right

[Tethler]

Where exactly did I call you a liar, Rogean. That's right, that did not happen.

Here you go, pal


So why not just start owing up to some of this by putting a huge sign alongside your "patch files" on your front page, stating that you're monitoring peoples windows in order to uphold your "rules". That would be the honest thing to do and at least a start, but you don't really have any intentions of actually informing 99.9 % of your players


Telling him to "own up" and "be honest" implies that you believe he is not being truthful, aka you're calling him a liar.

Probably stop now, before you get banned.

[Duik]

Playing on P99 should come with a warning of P99 forcing you to download their DLL injection file called "dsetup.dll".

The modification of this file means that they can basically see every window you have open.

So essentially "laws" are being broken to uphold "rules".

Most will probably agree, that that's quite the slippery slope. Or at least everyone actually valueing their privacy or at least their right to privacy.

P99 should probably spend their donation money on a decent lawyer by now, as this is very invasive and quite illegal in most countries.

Just to let everyone know. Carry on.

Imma lawyer btw. There fixed it for you.

[Hideousclaw]

i love the backpedaling from getting caught boxing on the same PC to "oh i meant to do it" gotcha game op is trying to paint. play better, this is a bad look for you. take your loss, stop flailing about.

[goblinmob]

He is just DSM doing FORUMQUEST right now. dont give him the satisfaction like ROGEAN did. His Forumquest first turn in was successful. Yea I did defend him on another post, but with this one i think cd288 might be right

What's DSM mean?

[Trexller]

If any service is free, than YOU are the product.

p99 is selling player data to darkpaw or google.

Change my mind.

[magnetaress]

So far this is the most autistic thread on the forums, and you all got away with it in Starting Zone, general discussion, congratz )

[Valakut]

just whitelist the DLL file if you want to play on p99

if you dont want to play here but you do want to let people know how upset you are that you wont be playing here then post to rants and flames

[Tann]

p99 is selling player data to darkpaw or google.

The ramifications of what darkpaw could do with my player data is life shattering.. nay, world breaking.

[goblinmob]

Look, I just wanna know what DSM means ya know?

[Tann]

Look, I just wanna know what DSM means ya know?

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DSM

I'm going with Digital Soil Mapping

[goblinmob]

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/DSM

I'm going with Digital Soil Mapping

Oh shit wassup man? I was just looking at your page like just a minute ago! I saw in your signature the I made a game link so just checking it out. Couldn't play on the phone I have here but it's still sweet. Do you still do that very much? It's cool that you did all the music and stuff too!

[Tann]

Sadly I only made it for browser play and/or windows, no time these days but I'd love to make another. :mad:

[Solist]

Just about every time some nerd takes umbrage with P99 admin or CSR, they decide to whiteknight DLL's, or repost greengrocer reddit dumps etc. 100% chance it's dudes angry they got caught stealing/boxing/RMT/whatever. The other 99 of the 100 who got caught just quietly go about playing their free game and start over as they have some integrity.

Reality is there's like 4 people on the server who've really suffered at the hands of corrupt CSR, and hopefully some safeguards are in place to never see a repeat of Sirken. The odds are more than pretty good there is no real grievance to be seen beyond breaking some rules and getting caught. Nothing to see here.

[Chortles Snortles]

Look, I just wanna know what DSM means ya know?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=112282

[goblinmob]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=112282

oh gotcha hahaha

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Playing on P99 should come with a warning of P99 forcing you to download their DLL injection file called "dsetup.dll".

The modification of this file means that they can basically see every window you have open.

So essentially "laws" are being broken to uphold "rules".

Most will probably agree, that that's quite the slippery slope. Or at least everyone actually valueing their privacy or at least their right to privacy.

P99 should probably spend their donation money on a decent lawyer by now, as this is very invasive and quite illegal in most countries.

Just to let everyone know. Carry on.


If the p99 team wants to see all 10 tabs of the online chess game I always have open, beating all comers and not offering any draws, well, let them too marvel.


I have chess macroed to hell and back. So take that Sicilian Opening somewhere else buddy.

[Praxcthius]

Knight to Q4 doesn’t garner much loot.

Klazdaxthun

[khandman]

Registered on the site in 2010 and complaining about this now.

[Bigcountry23]

To quote the EULA, Project 1999 severely disallows and ACTIVLY TRACKS players who use Third Party Programs/Cheating.

How else did you think they were Actively Tracking?

[Gustoo]

Please make new red

[Naonak]

Damn, found the reason for all my PC issues. Thank you

[Valrok]

"The others are also doing it, and they're even worse than us, see....!"

Nah, Rogean, that doesn't quite (there you go, Spithridates) cut it.

What you are doing ís bad. That's the entire point here. And you especially know that you've hit the nail perfectly on the head when the trolls all surface immediately after ;-)

Your "we are not collecting your processes/windows" is a statement that you can't possibly prove, so it doesn't really get us anywhere. And the potential constant monitoring of thousands of players processes/windows are "bad" enough here, Rogean, you don't even have to be collecting anything, you obviously know that already.

So why not just start owing up to some of this by putting a huge sign alongside your "patch files" on your front page, stating that you're monitoring peoples windows in order to uphold your "rules". That would be the honest thing to do and at least a start, but you don't really have any intentions of actually informing 99.9 % of your players, do you now, Rogean ;-)

And "obfuscation technologies", haha, good one ;-)

So Rogean has spoken about this in the past and has went as far as to name the obfuscation software that P99 uses to encrypt the code stored inside the DLL file.

Here is the link to their site so that you can read up on why and how this works. It makes sense to do this.

https://www.oreans.com/themida.php

[Valrok]

To quote the EULA, Project 1999 severely disallows and ACTIVLY TRACKS players who use Third Party Programs/Cheating.

How else did you think they were Actively Tracking?

Memory injection methods used by software would return hashes that do not match hashes server side. This would flag the client to have changed said information stored at that memory location.

It would then be relatively simple to see what "most popular" cheating software (not that it matters) changes that particular code block and then ban the player for using it.

[JohnLACA]

100% Legal while you are running the P99 software.

If the tracking persisted when you had a reasonable expectation for privacy (when the game wasn't running), then you might have a case. The burden of proof would remain.

P99 is a passion project. It is held together with love and hard work by volunteers. There is no Swiss bank account filled with the gold collected from donations. Every day I log on and the game is running I am grateful for all the hard work being done by everyone (programmers, GM's, guides, Guild Leaders, Raid Leaders, Dial a Port, Ring a Rez, etc) who contributes to P99's success.

[Jibartik]

Please make new red

[EQBarde]

Hello.
Does it mean that, when I'm watching porn during a camp, P99 staff can see the same vids? If yes, I'd like to know if they share my taste.

[magnetaress]

Hello.
Does it mean that, when I'm watching porn during a camp, P99 staff can see the same vids? If yes, I'd like to know if they share my taste.

Male African?

Please make new red

[EQBarde]

Male African?

with japanese women...:D

[Goldknyght]

Please make new red

Please dont! But i will take this statement back if P99 RED can muster 1000 concurrent people playing on the server! If that happens. maybe gustoo has a point.

[magnetaress]

Please dont! But i will take this statement back if P99 RED can muster 1000 concurrent people playing on the server! If that happens. maybe gustoo has a point.

it used butt there is no reason playing on a stale 20 year old box as u will soon see with green

[blackrock]

Its been a boring morning, can you list the laws for our resident young lawyers to parse?

https://sites.suffolk.edu/jhtl/2021/10/04/the-cost-of-fair-play-advancing-anti-cheat-technology-in-online-video-games-raises-data-privacy-concerns/

probably illegal in the EU

https://www.wired.com/story/kernel-anti-cheat-online-gaming-vulnerabilities/

talks about the levels of anti-cheats particularly Black Desert had a very low level anti-cheat program in regards the the windows operating system

this is a particularly interesting issue since there's a set of ISOs being passed around that have what appear to be MQ2 installation files in the 5th iso that may or may not be getting hooked during the install process and infecting any user who uses to exploit their computer

Typically anti-cheat software is looking to stop the cheat application from gaining access to the game in question and detecting it once it does and does not normally look outside itself to find open windows.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/19/hacking-cfaa-justice-policy/

cites that if this is being done in good faith for security research and in this case good faith catching cheat software that is installed with or with out the players permission

these are honest questions though about what is done once they are looking outside the game and are they circumventing any security measures built into windows with either social engineering or code.

[PabloEdvardo]

if you've ever done any programming in windows and messed with the winAPI you'd know how easy it is to read window titles from any application

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-getwindowtexta

and if you want to call that spyware, i sure hope you don't run OBS, because it also enumerates your open windows and grabs the titles (so you can use it to automatically capture a window based on title)

overall it's a simple and low effort way to prevent running the most common cheat applications (or problematic applications). I got a scary message one time when I opened p99 and then realized I had WinDBG running from analyzing a crash dump and I guess it was on their 'no no list'. I closed it and logged on no problem after.

their dll isn't stopping anyone from running cheats that they don't know about - so the main benefit is this keeps you from accidentally logging on and getting permabanned if you left something they don't like running on accident. I consider that a benefit.

if you are really that scared close your porn tabs before you run the game

[magnetaress]

if you've ever done any programming in windows and messed with the winAPI you'd know how easy it is to read window titles from any application

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-getwindowtexta

and if you want to call that spyware, i sure hope you don't run OBS, because it also enumerates your open windows and grabs the titles (so you can use it to automatically capture a window based on title)

overall it's a simple and low effort way to prevent running the most common cheat applications (or problematic applications). I got a scary message one time when I opened p99 and then realized I had WinDBG running from analyzing a crash dump and I guess it was on their 'no no list'. I closed it and logged on no problem after.

their dll isn't stopping anyone from running cheats that they don't know about - so the main benefit is this keeps you from accidentally logging on and getting permabanned if you left something they don't like running on accident. I consider that a benefit.

if you are really that scared close your porn tabs before you run the game

That is exactly what a cheater wud says. B&

[Uthgaard]

if you've ever done any programming in windows and messed with the winAPI you'd know how easy it is to read window titles from any application

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-getwindowtexta

and if you want to call that spyware, i sure hope you don't run OBS, because it also enumerates your open windows and grabs the titles (so you can use it to automatically capture a window based on title)

overall it's a simple and low effort way to prevent running the most common cheat applications (or problematic applications). I got a scary message one time when I opened p99 and then realized I had WinDBG running from analyzing a crash dump and I guess it was on their 'no no list'. I closed it and logged on no problem after.

their dll isn't stopping anyone from running cheats that they don't know about - so the main benefit is this keeps you from accidentally logging on and getting permabanned if you left something they don't like running on accident. I consider that a benefit.

if you are really that scared close your porn tabs before you run the game

I mean this is the basic concept, cheat deterrents. There is also non-personally identifying device information which makes identifying 2boxing a little easier as well, and isn't any different from what every website on the internet gleans as you surf the web. But nobody is looking at it unless there's actual cause to investigate rule violations or account theft.

If you think anyone is actively watching you, then you really overestimate how interesting you actually are.

[azxten]

There is also non-personally identifying device information

That seems like a false statement. What device information exactly? I heard computer and user name which can be personally identifying.

isn't any different from what every website on the internet gleans as you surf the web

Can websites get your user or computer name? Is that what is being referred to? Last I checked that information is not available or intended to be available to any website.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21900836/how-do-i-get-the-name-of-the-computer-accessing-my-web-page-in-vb

But nobody is looking at it unless there's actual cause to investigate rule violations or account theft.

Sounds like the NSA and their logic that they aren't spying on you by collecting your information because no one is looking at what was collected... until some other time.

If you think anyone is actively watching you, then you really overestimate how interesting you actually are.

Uthgaard aren't you that rogue GM who I saw ban players without cause and I petitioned it and messaged Nilbog on the forums about it? Yeah that's right it was Mistmoore and I saw someone accidentally train a mob or something and you popped up in response. I told you I saw the whole thing and it was an accident but you essentially told me to shut up and perma banned them. You already had a rep for bad decision making like this and thinking your job was to play bad cop and insult players. I say that because I also had already messaged Nilbog that I was concerned you weren't a fair or good GM so this training incident was me saying I had confirmation of my earlier beliefs.

Anyway the reason I bring it up is because sometime after that occurred I called you gay on the forums and you perma banned all my in game accounts for it even linking IPs to other accounts banning my families accounts. Luckily Rogean unbanned my accounts after you yourself got banned.

Point being it's funny to hear you say this when you were a power obsessed GM who unfairly banned players on multiple occasions including in my case accounts I had merely logged into for calling you gay on forums. So clearly you yourself felt I was interesting enough to punish by using this collected data, in my case IP information, so why wouldn't you or someone like you use the additional computer information when someone calls you gay or worse and you want to punish them maybe beyond the game world? After all, I broke a forum rule on the forums but you applied that to game accounts some of which weren't even mine. I don't think your statements are very trustworthy but maybe I'm wrong.

By the way I never got to apologize for that, I'm sorry, it was inappropriate to call you gay and was insulting to gay people too to use this as a slur.

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/aD4wBC3.jpg

[Uthgaard]

Huge rant

Every time I post you reply to it with a huge rant about being banned (which is really impressive that you've managed to stay bigmad for a whole decade now), but...

https://64.media.tumblr.com/9dc875f8ecd9dca9d27acc2b9e733463/b8786d06f55dfa28-25/s540x810/99d8490a35816c10a5cda3d035198268287058ed.gif

[Allishia]

Hello.
Does it mean that, when I'm watching porn during a camp, P99 staff can see the same vids? If yes, I'd like to know if they share my taste.

Lmao

[magnetaress]

only crazy ppl play moderate and post here takes one to know one )

[azxten]

Every time I post you reply to it with a huge rant about being banned (which is really impressive that you've managed to stay bigmad for a whole decade now), but...

https://64.media.tumblr.com/9dc875f8ecd9dca9d27acc2b9e733463/b8786d06f55dfa28-25/s540x810/99d8490a35816c10a5cda3d035198268287058ed.gif

Every time you post? I haven't even responded to anything you've written in probably that same decade. I'm not sure if I ever responded to you actually, how could I? You banned all my accounts including my forum account and you already got kicked off staff before I was unbanned.

I'm not mad I'm just pointing out what seems like hypocrisy in this post I happened to see. You don't know who I am but you say I've responded to every post you make? Pretty bizarre from my perspective. You signed up after me but same year and you have almost 10x as many posts as I do.

Posts: 5,385
Posts: 718

In any case I'll take your lack of response to the actual discussion to mean that your claims were wrong.

Edit:

I was looking at your post history to figure out if I somehow had responded to you recently and I see you just came back to say "whats up" and your thread is basically full of the people you unfairly banned calling you out for it. It's pretty funny to me that you still believe you were a good GM. Pages of stories of players saying they got banned by you for nonsensical reasons and your response is that they all deserved it. Somehow you are the only GM who has this reputation but you still can't own it. You should have stuck to bug reports and dev work. I do actually think the overboard unstable GM is funny though and I'm glad I got to be banned by you. Thanks for the good times.

[Calmethar]

I'll drop a last post here, just for the trolls with their childish "porn" remarks etc. ;-)

Note that this was the primary point of the original post:
"Playing on P99 should come with a warning of P99 forcing you to download their DLL injection file called "dsetup.dll"."

No one has said anything about Project 1999 not being good, nor their rules not being fair, etc. The whole point was that this sort of invasive surveillance should always be advertised, because yes, it is illegal, very much so actually.

Stating in advance that it is being done makes it less illegal, in some countries at least. The main point still being though, that why not state it, as that in itself should make for less rule-breaking, thus less time spent monitoring rule-violations, fewer people actually breaking rules, etc.

In Europe it's called the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), where one'll find in article 13-14 that one must clearly inform about every kind of surveillance.

No matter where a server/service is based, it can be found that it can be regulated through GDPR. It can also be found, that even with clear notification, said surveillance is still illegal.

That said, "DLL injections" in particular can often in and of themselves violate the Council of Europe's Cybercrime Convention, which e.g. the US has also joined. E.g. as we saw with the Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal back in 2005.

Well, I'm out then. Have fun all ;-)

[Uthgaard]

Bruh. Imagine voluntarily signing into a video game, claiming you were "forced" to download it, being extremely confused about what it does and doesn't monitor, and then calling it "invasive surveillance".

People like you are why we have to click that pointless notification about cookies on literally every website now.

[Chortles Snortles]

Perhaps a /ready command?

[Tann]

Every time I post you reply to it with a huge rant about being banned (which is really impressive that you've managed to stay bigmad for a whole decade now), but...

https://i.imgur.com/l26iKnb.gif

[Calmethar]

Bruh. Imagine voluntarily signing into a video game, claiming you were "forced" to download it, being extremely confused about what it does and doesn't monitor, and then calling it "invasive surveillance".

People like you are why we have to click that pointless notification about cookies on literally every website now.

This place is really infested, but let's just clear this fallacy up as well now that we're at it.

No, offering a service for free doesn't give one carte blanche to use "dll-injections", especially not without informing the users. That much is crystal clear. To the trolls as well of course, they're just playing their silly games without end ;-)

[Soothsayer]

If you have nothing to hide, why worry about privacy? Even if we assume that some kind of spyware is in fact being used to monitor windows, it’s not an issue unless you assume that someone cares about the YouTube videos you’re watching or the random news articles you’re reading, et cetera et cetera. Spoiler alert, nobody cares.

[azxten]

If you have nothing to hide, why worry about privacy? Even if we assume that some kind of spyware is in fact being used to monitor windows, itÂ’s not an issue unless you assume that someone cares about the YouTube videos youÂ’re watching or the random news articles youÂ’re reading, et cetera et cetera. Spoiler alert, nobody cares.

Edward Snowden remarked "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."[9] He considered claiming nothing to hide as giving up the right of privacy which the government has to protect.

Daniel J. Solove stated in an article for The Chronicle of Higher Education that he opposes the argument. He believed that a government can leak information about a person and cause damage to that person, or use information about a person to deny access to services, even if a person did not actually engage in wrongdoing. A government can cause damage to one's personal life through making errors.[3] Solove wrote "When engaged directly, the nothing-to-hide argument can ensnare, for it forces the debate to focus on its narrow understanding of privacy. But when confronted with the plurality of privacy problems implicated by government data collection and use beyond surveillance and disclosure, the nothing-to-hide argument, in the end, has nothing to say."

Adam D. Moore, author of Privacy Rights: Moral and Legal Foundations, argued, "it is the view that rights are resistant to cost/benefit or consequentialist sort of arguments. Here we are rejecting the view that privacy interests are the sorts of things that can be traded for security."[10] He also stated that surveillance can disproportionately affect certain groups in society based on appearance, ethnicity, sexuality, and religion.

Bruce Schneier, a computer security expert and cryptographer, expressed opposition, citing Cardinal Richelieu's statement, "Give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I'll find enough to hang him," referring to how a state government can find aspects in a person's life in order to prosecute or blackmail that individual.[11] Schneier also argued that the actual choice is between "liberty versus control" instead of "security versus privacy".[11]

Harvey A. Silverglate estimated that the common person, on average, unknowingly commits three felonies a day in the US.[12]

Emilio Mordini, philosopher and psychoanalyst, argued that the "nothing to hide" argument is inherently paradoxical. People do not need to have "something to hide" in order to hide "something". What is hidden is not necessarily relevant, claims Mordini. Instead, he argues an intimate area which can be both hidden and access-restricted is necessary since, psychologically speaking, we become individuals through the discovery that we could hide something to others.[13]

Julian Assange agreed with Jacob Appelbaum and stated that "Mass surveillance is a mass structural change. When society goes bad, it's going to take you with it, even if you are the blandest person on earth."[14]

Ignacio Cofone, a law professor, argued that the argument is mistaken in its own terms because, whenever people disclose relevant information to others, they also disclose irrelevant information. This irrelevant information has privacy costs and can lead to other harms, such as discrimination.[15]

In refutation of the argument, the Indian Supreme Court has found that the right to privacy is a fundamental right of Indian citizens.[citation needed]

Anyway...

Personally I think they should have a statement about this functionality, require people to agree to it when creating an account, and this statement should explain how that personal information is being handled. I was curious so read a bit of GDPR to see how it would apply to P99 but as far as I can tell P99 isn't a business. It's an entity which under GDPR entities are only required to comply if they are based in the EU. One thing I found that is interesting was some laws have defined protected personal information as also being aggregate non-identifying personal information if collected on more than 1000 different entities. From a project perspective what is being done is in fact risky because there is a very remote chance that someone's computer is named "bobsmithat123stidaho" and let's say they have a peculiar taste in porn and a staff member has this data from window titles and puts it out there. That person begins to have standing to sue and with actual damages. The data could be obtained by a malicious actor for example it doesn't have to be the staff intentionally using it for bad reasons. In this case P99 would almost definitely be in big trouble. No one agreed to this, they didn't disclose it officially, in this instance it was enough information to identify an individual, and it caused damages. Totally remote never going to happen kind of thing but in reality these things happen sometimes.

Of course these concepts are alien to most people. The risk is on the staff and it's their decision. I see little downside though. It's funny people would actively resist the idea that someone collecting personal information without your consent probably should stop doing that. Rogean said, "If you think what we're doing is bad you should see the other anti-cheat systems" referring to things like EAC and so on. The problem with that is those run with user consent via an agreement obtained duration installation. No such agreement exists for P99 regarding their data collection or usage.

Why resist doing this? It seems immature to me but my mindset is very corporate and seeks to avoid unnecessary risks. My perception is there is concern that if this was disclosed it would threaten growth, weaken the protection, or it's "hard" to implement properly since P99 logins are tied into EQEmu. You can make an EQEmu account without agreeing to anything from P99. The license.txt file has a disclaimer about this but the problem is you don't have to agree to this to play on P99. It's like if you signed up for a Facebook account and after you were already logged in and using the product they E-mailed you a list of rules and described how they're harvesting your personal data. That won't hold up in court.

Oh also since staff has commented on this they're now "knowingly" doing what they're doing in spite of people bringing these issues to their attention. Not even trying to be a dick I'd fix this up if I was in charge and this is how it is. Of course they could be comparing window titles on the client side and only sending a detection flag. Your computer name could be a one way hash for purposes of detecting boxing. There are a lot of assumptions about what is actually collected but then this gets into privacy laws about "processing" personal information as well.

[Wiltan]

I'm not going to speak to the legalities of having software that "spies" for potential cheat applications that may or may not have more insight into what else you do on your computer, because that varies by state/country. Nor am I going to speak to the ethics of using a tool to watch for cheating that has potential to see more than just that, because obviously most of us have made our peace with that ages ago.

What I will say is that there are hundreds of people on each of two servers (and tens of people on a third) at any given time, so probably thousands of active users overall. P99 is a volunteer-run organization with limited resources and only a handful of active staff, so it is extremely unrealistic that they have the human bandwidth nor infrastructure to monitor what everyone is doing on their computers outside of flagging the hashes of certain apps (as someone else explained already very nicely). It would take at least hundreds of people to watch what everyone is doing on their computers. It would take petabytes of storage to even list the titles all the open windows on everyone's computers on every minute they're playing. In short, even if this massive invasion of privacy you're worried about is possible from a technical standpoint, it's not realistically possible from a resource standpoint.

As for warning you about this, it's at least somewhat covered here in
https://wiki.project1999.com/Players:Technical#Third-Party_Tools - specifically "Use of any third-party programs will be detected and will result in the permanent banning of your account(s)."

They've warned you they're detecting stuff on your computer.

Since you insist that's all you're asking them to do, asked and answered.

[Goldknyght]

TRACK ME P99 and guess what ur gonna have FBI problems not oh lets send him a babyshark promo problem. no one is tracking u. and lets just play devils advocate. lets say they are tracking us wanting our data. peak p99 traffic is 2000 at best. so idk i think u might want to have a better argument just cuz u got banned for cheating. there is no dollars here for them to get. FFS

[Gooch]

I keep a window of midget porn open just for the admins.

[Uthgaard]

Nobody can even see what's in your browsers, that's just a dumb guy making dumb hypotheticals.

But also nobody is gonna go into extreme details at any software company about how their cheat/abuse detection algorithms do work, and just help people evade them.

[Calmethar]

I'm not going to speak to the legalities of having software that "spies" for potential cheat applications that may or may not have more insight into what else you do on your computer, because that varies by state/country. Nor am I going to speak to the ethics of using a tool to watch for cheating that has potential to see more than just that, because obviously most of us have made our peace with that ages ago.

What I will say is that there are hundreds of people on each of two servers (and tens of people on a third) at any given time, so probably thousands of active users overall. P99 is a volunteer-run organization with limited resources and only a handful of active staff, so it is extremely unrealistic that they have the human bandwidth nor infrastructure to monitor what everyone is doing on their computers outside of flagging the hashes of certain apps (as someone else explained already very nicely). It would take at least hundreds of people to watch what everyone is doing on their computers. It would take petabytes of storage to even list the titles all the open windows on everyone's computers on every minute they're playing. In short, even if this massive invasion of privacy you're worried about is possible from a technical standpoint, it's not realistically possible from a resource standpoint.

As for warning you about this, it's at least somewhat covered here in
https://wiki.project1999.com/Players:Technical#Third-Party_Tools - specifically "Use of any third-party programs will be detected and will result in the permanent banning of your account(s)."

They've warned you they're detecting stuff on your computer.

Since you insist that's all you're asking them to do, asked and answered.
Oh, them trolls ;-)

"The wiki is player maintained, and not supported by the Project 1999 Staff (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324844)."

[Calmethar]

Anyway...

Personally I think they should have a statement about this functionality, require people to agree to it when creating an account, and this statement should explain how that personal information is being handled. I was curious so read a bit of GDPR to see how it would apply to P99 but as far as I can tell P99 isn't a business. It's an entity which under GDPR entities are only required to comply if they are based in the EU. One thing I found that is interesting was some laws have defined protected personal information as also being aggregate non-identifying personal information if collected on more than 1000 different entities. From a project perspective what is being done is in fact risky because there is a very remote chance that someone's computer is named "bobsmithat123stidaho" and let's say they have a peculiar taste in porn and a staff member has this data from window titles and puts it out there. That person begins to have standing to sue and with actual damages. The data could be obtained by a malicious actor for example it doesn't have to be the staff intentionally using it for bad reasons. In this case P99 would almost definitely be in big trouble. No one agreed to this, they didn't disclose it officially, in this instance it was enough information to identify an individual, and it caused damages. Totally remote never going to happen kind of thing but in reality these things happen sometimes.

Of course these concepts are alien to most people. The risk is on the staff and it's their decision. I see little downside though. It's funny people would actively resist the idea that someone collecting personal information without your consent probably should stop doing that. Rogean said, "If you think what we're doing is bad you should see the other anti-cheat systems" referring to things like EAC and so on. The problem with that is those run with user consent via an agreement obtained duration installation. No such agreement exists for P99 regarding their data collection or usage.

Why resist doing this? It seems immature to me but my mindset is very corporate and seeks to avoid unnecessary risks. My perception is there is concern that if this was disclosed it would threaten growth, weaken the protection, or it's "hard" to implement properly since P99 logins are tied into EQEmu. You can make an EQEmu account without agreeing to anything from P99. The license.txt file has a disclaimer about this but the problem is you don't have to agree to this to play on P99. It's like if you signed up for a Facebook account and after you were already logged in and using the product they E-mailed you a list of rules and described how they're harvesting your personal data. That won't hold up in court.

Oh also since staff has commented on this they're now "knowingly" doing what they're doing in spite of people bringing these issues to their attention. Not even trying to be a dick I'd fix this up if I was in charge and this is how it is. Of course they could be comparing window titles on the client side and only sending a detection flag. Your computer name could be a one way hash for purposes of detecting boxing. There are a lot of assumptions about what is actually collected but then this gets into privacy laws about "processing" personal information as well.
Quite spot on. Why indeed not just inform the users. But as we clearly see from Rogean's weak answers, they'll rather try to downplay the fact that they're even doing it, instead of just posting a big fat sign right next to the "patch files" and let everyone know what they're actually "agreeing" to by playing on "Project 1999".

"The DLL gets flagged by Antiviruses because it uses obfuscation technologies."

"Obfuscation technologies", haha, still cracks me up ;-p

[Uthgaard]

I often find that folks who try to be young lawyers tend to make some very big mistakes when they think they have some leverage, particularly in the areas of federal extortion law, and laws regarding implied threats of lawsuits, especially when made interstate (such as telling them how they should spend their money while alleging illegal activity).

If someone thinks they have knowledge of illegal activity (mistaken or otherwise) the only appropriate recourse is to use the proper channels. Not linger around their public fora, attempting to illegally intimidate with said "information".

Certainly the dumbest possible thing that person could do would be to repeatedly return, digging the hole deeper and building that case via threatening interstate wire communications.

If they were to spend money on an attorney, there's a high chance that the actual outcome would be a referral for prosecution letter detailing that person's actions to a US attorney.

Just to let everyone know. Carry on.

I just want to let everyone know

As per my original post: "Just to let everyone know".

I'll drop a last post here

Well, I'm out then. Have fun all ;-)

You said you were leaving? (often) :rolleyes:

[Calmethar]

I often find that folks who try to be young lawyers tend to make some very big mistakes when they think they have some leverage, particularly in the areas of federal extortion law, and laws regarding implied threats of lawsuits, especially when made interstate (such as telling them how they should spend their money while alleging illegal activity).

If someone thinks they have knowledge of illegal activity (mistaken or otherwise) the only appropriate recourse is to use the proper channels. Not linger around their public fora, attempting to illegally intimidate with said "information".

Certainly the dumbest possible thing that person could do would be to repeatedly return, digging the hole deeper and building that case via threatening interstate wire communications.

If they were to spend money on an attorney, there's a high chance that the actual outcome would be a referral for prosecution letter detailing that person's actions to a US attorney.











You said you were leaving? (often) :rolleyes:

Well, yea, I decided to stick around just a bit longer, just to annoy the trolls here a bit, since they're so numerous around here ;-)

My bet is that P99 is forwarding this data-collection to Daybreak, by the way, just to say "thank you"... ;-)

[Chortles Snortles]

guys im really leaving this time
(lol)

[magnetaress]

ya'll got uthgard multiposting so thats gud guy is probably lonely glad he's back tho

[Wiltan]

Well, yea, I decided to stick around just a bit longer, just to annoy the trolls here a bit, since they're so numerous around here ;-)

You get that you're the troll, right?

[Wiltan]

"The wiki is player maintained, and not supported by the Project 1999 Staff (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324844)."

Sure, but it's quoting a direct post from Llandris speaking on behalf of the P99 staff.

[titanshub]

This is the best thread I've read in ages.

[Calmethar]

You get that you're the troll, right?Now you're being funny ;-)

Sure, but it's quoting a direct post from Llandris speaking on behalf of the P99 staff.A long "Play Nice Policy"-post that only 1 % read is not what's in question here. It's why players are not informed directly about the intrusiveness straight off the bat, or even better, an "agreement" from the players before they even download these so-called "patch files". Why try to hide it. Informed players would only lead to fewer rule-violations.


"Looking for the latest Patch Files ? Along with our anti-cheat-obfuscation-technologies allowing us to monitor you ? Get them here: Project 1999 Patch Files (V56)."

"Once you have completed installation you will need to extract the Project 1999 required game file changes along with our anti-cheat-obfuscation-technologies allowing us to monitor you. The current distribution is Project 1999 Files (V56).
These files must overwrite any existing files encountered during extraction into your Titanium directory."

There you go, all ready to go ;-)

[Chortles Snortles]

so did you care about this before getting perma banned?
(lol)

[Cen]

When you let Rogean see your other windows ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM5CUE-XfBk

;D

[Jibartik]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409393

with the dlll this guy can watch you walking around in a map he made of your city and house

[Ooloo]

Op is obviously hostile and has some kind of axe to grind, despite his best efforts to declare that he's totally not doing that at all.

I like that p99 is strict on boxing much more than I care if rogean or whoever knows what other windows I have open. or whatever. Granny fart porn is MY thing, and I'm not afraid to shout it!

[Chortles Snortles]

we know, baler

[Reiwa]

You agree to the terms by playing here. This is a private server, utilizing private files. All participation is 100% voluntary. No lawyer would touch this with a billion foot pole.

You are insane.

[Calmethar]

Anyway...

Personally I think they should have a statement about this functionality, require people to agree to it when creating an account, and this statement should explain how that personal information is being handled. I was curious so read a bit of GDPR to see how it would apply to P99 but as far as I can tell P99 isn't a business. It's an entity which under GDPR entities are only required to comply if they are based in the EU. One thing I found that is interesting was some laws have defined protected personal information as also being aggregate non-identifying personal information if collected on more than 1000 different entities. From a project perspective what is being done is in fact risky because there is a very remote chance that someone's computer is named "bobsmithat123stidaho" and let's say they have a peculiar taste in porn and a staff member has this data from window titles and puts it out there. That person begins to have standing to sue and with actual damages. The data could be obtained by a malicious actor for example it doesn't have to be the staff intentionally using it for bad reasons. In this case P99 would almost definitely be in big trouble. No one agreed to this, they didn't disclose it officially, in this instance it was enough information to identify an individual, and it caused damages. Totally remote never going to happen kind of thing but in reality these things happen sometimes.

Of course these concepts are alien to most people. The risk is on the staff and it's their decision. I see little downside though. It's funny people would actively resist the idea that someone collecting personal information without your consent probably should stop doing that. Rogean said, "If you think what we're doing is bad you should see the other anti-cheat systems" referring to things like EAC and so on. The problem with that is those run with user consent via an agreement obtained duration installation. No such agreement exists for P99 regarding their data collection or usage.

Why resist doing this? It seems immature to me but my mindset is very corporate and seeks to avoid unnecessary risks. My perception is there is concern that if this was disclosed it would threaten growth, weaken the protection, or it's "hard" to implement properly since P99 logins are tied into EQEmu. You can make an EQEmu account without agreeing to anything from P99. The license.txt file has a disclaimer about this but the problem is you don't have to agree to this to play on P99. It's like if you signed up for a Facebook account and after you were already logged in and using the product they E-mailed you a list of rules and described how they're harvesting your personal data. That won't hold up in court.

Oh also since staff has commented on this they're now "knowingly" doing what they're doing in spite of people bringing these issues to their attention. Not even trying to be a dick I'd fix this up if I was in charge and this is how it is. Of course they could be comparing window titles on the client side and only sending a detection flag. Your computer name could be a one way hash for purposes of detecting boxing. There are a lot of assumptions about what is actually collected but then this gets into privacy laws about "processing" personal information as well.By the way, Azxten, GDPR does very much apply to private entities as well. The only exception is if it's "completely private", but "Project 1999" is very far from "completely private" catering to thousands, so yes, GDPR certainly applies.

[MaddiusTheMad]

Ever heard of user agreements? Everyone is accepting of this concept, no lawyer has done anything about it for like 20 years rofl.

[Calmethar]

Ever heard of user agreements? Everyone is accepting of this concept, no lawyer has done anything about it for like 20 years rofl.Where did anyone "agree" to anything, please enlighten us.

[Chortles Snortles]

guys where did i agree to cheat and get permabanned
(lol)

[Tann]

guys where did i agree to cheat and get permabanned
(lol)

Didn't you read the ToS?

https://media.tenor.com/xaBwfY2otmkAAAAC/youve-agreed-to-all-of-this-kyle-broflovski.gif

[onions]

I have the utmost respect and gratitude for the folks keeping this game running.

There are some privacy concerns that keep me from playing until I buy a dedicated laptop as covid changed up my work. I'm sure i'm not alone in these concerns, as a lot of the playerbase is older and likely more employed than other games out there ;).

I do wish we had a better sense of what's at stake, privacy-wise. Not because I dont trust the staff, but because I know security breaches happen.

That all being said, it is what it is and I know i'll be playing again soon. Thanks again p99 people

[cd288]

Here are some old quotes on the DLL file.

Rogean (apparently - a commenter from a 2015 thread said this was a post from him): "As far as what it does.. I can tell you for a fact it does not collect information about processes unless they directly access Everquest memory space."

Deurbael (retired P99 GM - comment from 2014): "dsetup.dll doesn't modify any of your files, doesn't let us read your files, doesn't destroy your registry. It doesn't give us any kind of hands on access to your computer. It's there to detect cheats like Macroquest and ShowEQ so that we can have a truly hack free server. As a poster explained above, it is likely that someone submitted it to a (crappy, lazy) virus database and they filed it in the "well it does something but we can't be arsed to figure out what" section of their DB. So now it's going to flag on certain virus scanners."


Now - is this all true? Who knows. To some degree we'll just have to trust the staff unless someone with a lot of technical knowledge can break down the DLL and confirm what it has access to.