How much do Clerics need CHA?

[tadkins]

If I had the urge to roll up a halfling cleric, just wondering how much the 50 starting CHA is going to hurt me. I figured lull + sneak would be a pretty decent combo for getting around and I wouldn't want to worry about lulls failing all the time.

Are there cleric-usable items I can go for that have good chunks of +CHA?

[Toxigen]

It just depends on how you plan on using your cleric.

Big groups along the xp superhighway? Don't sweat.

Weird solo / duos / trios in higher risk dungeons? Deep dungeon CRs? Worth every penny.

And yes there are cleric items w/ +CHA on it...but imo if you're going for the true min/max cleric you want as much cha as possible.

[zelld52]

Charisma is super-important for cleric if you plan on using the Pacify line at all. Charisma doesn't affect the chance of being successful, but it does affect the chance of aggro on a resist.

The formula for rolls to check for crit resist are (apparently):

MobRoll = (((MobMR + MobLevel) / 3) / MobMaxMR) + (RandomFloat(-0.1, 0.1))

CasterRoll = (((CasterCha + CasterLevel / 3) / CasterMaxCha) + (RandomFloat(-0.1, 0.1))

So with 50 charisma, at level 30 - You get + 0.105 added to your roll between -0.1 and 0.1. If that number is lower than the mob roll, you get aggro.

With 150 charisma, at level 30 - You get + 0.235 added to your roll between -0.1 and 0.1. Much higher chance of beating the mob roll on a resist.

[zelld52]

Here's a few items with +CHA and other useful stats for cleric.

Back: https://wiki.project1999.com/Othmir_Fur_Cloak
Chest: https://wiki.project1999.com/Sebilite_Scale_Coat
Face: https://wiki.project1999.com/Bone_Mask_of_the_Jarsath
Legs: https://wiki.project1999.com/Sebilite_Scale_Leggings
Neck: https://wiki.project1999.com/Amulet_of_Insight (https://wiki.project1999.com/Amulet_of_Insight)
Waist: https://wiki.project1999.com/Sludged_Girdle

Those are "full-time" items, that are beneficial to clerics and also have charisma. But, it's a good idea to have a seperate charisma set for the times when you want to Lull your way through a dungeon. Having gear that you just swap in to Lull, and then going back to your normal gear during a fight.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Cleric_Equipment <---- Here's a list of Cleric Equipment by slot. Sort by Charisma, sort by No Drop/Droppable, and go shopping for a charisma set.

At 45, save up for a Donal's Bracer of Mourning (https://wiki.project1999.com/Donal%27s_Bracer_of_Mourning) for mana-free Pacify. With high charisma, cleric can get just about anywhere.

Have fun!

[Crede]

If I had the urge to roll up a halfling cleric, just wondering how much the 50 starting CHA is going to hurt me. I figured lull + sneak would be a pretty decent combo for getting around and I wouldn't want to worry about lulls failing all the time.

Are there cleric-usable items I can go for that have good chunks of +CHA?

Cha is huge. Go human inny for best fashion, 2nd best cha, snare neck, deadeye clicky, and liked by good/evil.

[Toxigen]

Cha is huge. Go human inny for best fashion, 2nd best cha, snare neck, deadeye clicky, and liked by good/evil.

pgud advice here

[PatChapp]

Just a couple items make a big difference for a Cha swap kit.
Crude stein, kobalds jesters crown,seahorse bracelet. 3 items for +55.

[tadkins]

Thanks for the responses all. :)

Cha is huge. Go human inny for best fashion, 2nd best cha, snare neck, deadeye clicky, and liked by good/evil.

Humans don't have the cute little battle dress though. Also Bristlebane is just more chill than Innoruuk. xD

[Crede]

Thanks for the responses all. :)



Humans don't have the cute little battle dress though. Also Bristlebane is just more chill than Innoruuk. xD

I don't really see the advantage of hide/sneak on a cleric. If you're gonna go small Gnome Bristlebane with wallvision would be much better IMO.

Good luck!

[tadkins]

I don't really see the advantage of hide/sneak on a cleric. If you're gonna go small Gnome Bristlebane with wallvision would be much better IMO.

Good luck!

B-but...battle dress!

I do understand where you're coming from though. Hide/sneak does offer some neat trick potential, like using KoS merchants and doing faction shenanigans, but I guess in the grand scheme of things it doesn't make a huge difference. Female halfling really is just an aesthetic choice for me.

[Tunabros]

as long as you're not a dark elf or a dwarf your charisma should be fine

you wouldn't really be casting divine intervention that much unless you are on raids

but I guess it can be helpful sometimes if you are trying to help pull but chances are

if you are in a group, you have a monk or an enchanter to help you with that process

eventually a lot of high end gear will boost all your stats, but in the end its kinda the

hardest stat to max while also having high wisdom

[PabloEdvardo]

I don't really see the advantage of hide/sneak on a cleric. If you're gonna go small Gnome Bristlebane with wallvision would be much better IMO.

Good luck!

Sneak is extremely useful in ToV to get past the wyverns when heading north

[Zuranthium]

Charisma is the most important stat for a Cleric, your job is recruiting people to church and brainwashing them.

[unleashedd]

Innoruuk cleric gets halfling illusion, so there's that. Also, human is kos in Oggok... Stupid ogres

[Solist]

There is no more important stat for a cleric than CHA.

Unless you're a raiding cleric, or exclusively do content where your manapool to CH is the primary focus. Otherwise you're a complete waste of time like a petless mage, or a dps warrior using a shield in an xp group to not be max cha. Absolutely hamstrings the class into doing healing only, which for the vast amount of content is the least efficient way to play.

Cleric's a very active class. It gets worse and worse the more reactively you play it; all the way down to sitting in a wall pressing CH in order (ie, the soul destroying shittiest way to play/a nessesary evil).

[Zuranthium]

There is no more important stat for a cleric than CHA.

Unless you're a raiding cleric, or exclusively do content where your manapool to CH is the primary focus. Otherwise you're a complete waste of time like a petless mage, or a dps warrior using a shield in an xp group to not be max cha. Absolutely hamstrings the class into doing healing only, which for the vast amount of content is the least efficient way to play.

Cleric's a very active class. It gets worse and worse the more reactively you play it; all the way down to sitting in a wall pressing CH in order (ie, the soul destroying shittiest way to play/a nessesary evil).

This is very delusional.

Cleric's job is to heal. You have to press C-heal at high levels, a lot, or you're simply being inefficient. You can do some more active stuff, but at the end of the day a group's capability of grinding through MOB's is going to be largely based on how much the Cleric can heal; other classes can do those "active" things in the Cleric's kit. Wisdom is the most important stat overall because more mana = more ability to save the group when things get rough (which doesn't just mean healing, it also means having mana to cast another Root).

Charisma only really affects Lull spells for the Cleric (Divine Intervention on themself is not something that will be used much). Yes it's helpful to have more ability there, it can even be the most important stat if you plan on doing a specific Duo where the Cleric is needed for crowd control capability, but overall Raiding and Grouping (or Duo with an Enchanter), is more common than a Cleric spending their time in a Duo with a Magician or something.

[sajbert]

Note, it is possible to hit 200+ charisma on a Halfling and still have 250+ wisdom and 100+ MR if you max charisma at creation.

It doesn't require any insane gear either. The hardest items being things like Runed Coldain Prayer Shawl, Emerald Dragonscale Tunic, Talisman of Benevolence, Lodzial Shell Shield and Woven Cord of the Mistletoe.

It WILL require a significant investment into your character and it WILL require that you reach velious before you can get any consistent lull-action going without having to swap gear around too much.

Some people have argued that swapping gear to get high charisma is a bad idea because you want that wisdom and whatnot the most when a lull fails, but in reality you're often able to root and log or atone the mobs, run and would've died just the same anyway if you don't succeed.

And whilst on the topic of swapping gear, the main issue with having a Halfling geared out like I suggest would really be resists. More resists IS very useful for raiding and charisma is NOT very useful for raiding. It'd be easy to swap out high charisma pieces like Kobold Jester's Crown or Matchless Dragonhorn Braces for resist and wis-pieces.

I do think it's fair to say that inny human cleric is nr 1 with all the useful clickies, good charisma and strong stats overall, ability to wear robes and having good all-round faction. HOWEVER, if you think sneak and hide is better than clicky necks I'd recommend Halfling in a heartbeat!

If fashion is what matters, go with whatever looks best. I personally would go Gnome.

[Solist]

This is very delusional.

Cleric's job is to heal. You have to press C-heal at high levels, a lot, or you're simply being inefficient. You can do some more active stuff, but at the end of the day a group's capability of grinding through MOB's is going to be largely based on how much the Cleric can heal; other classes can do those "active" things in the Cleric's kit. Wisdom is the most important stat overall because more mana = more ability to save the group when things get rough (which doesn't just mean healing, it also means having mana to cast another Root).

Charisma only really affects Lull spells for the Cleric (Divine Intervention on themself is not something that will be used much). Yes it's helpful to have more ability there, it can even be the most important stat if you plan on doing a specific Duo where the Cleric is needed for crowd control capability, but overall Raiding and Grouping (or Duo with an Enchanter), is more common than a Cleric spending their time in a Duo with a Magician or something.

I'm sorry you've been playing P1999 for 11 years and have yet to play with a competent cleric.

[Solist]

Also the cleric is better than the ENC at every single job the enc does in a duo except the DPS. Cleric breaks the rooms, cleric pacifies (for mana free), cleric does most of the CC except on a crit resist (where the enc is able to free cast without interruptions or building aggro).

You play with bad clerics, and you're not a good enc. That doesn't mean you can't change.

[Zuranthium]

Your arguments are idiotic. Cleric lull is not NEEDED when there's already an Enchanter there to do it (who should have higher/max Charisma). Cleric lull is not mana free either; using a relatively long cast clicky means you're not meditating in that time, and that item isn't something every Cleric has. Lull is not needed all the time to begin with; it's frequently just a minor time-saving measure over using Root.

Cleric mana factually needs to be spent fully on healing in situations where the heals are the limiting factor in being able to pull more (a typical occurrence). Cleric having more max mana helps to prevent deaths, and you are hurting yourself (and your guild/group) for important fights if you don't have the best mana pool. Not having enough mana is a game-losing outcome in the most important scenarios, whereas being able to Lull a bit better is a merely a nice bonus in the less important scenarios of the game where a Cleric is the only person around with that ability.

And stop acting like using Lull is some kind of very complex thing. It's not. Cleric in this game is nowhere close to the complexity of what it is in Guild Wars 1. Sitting around using your slow cast heals at easily recognizable times is the main function of Clerics. In combat situations where you might actually have to watch the field more and use other abilities, the Charisma stat rarely has anything to do with it whatsoever.

[Gustoo]

Zur is right. Even tho cleric has comparable CC in most areas, no one has comparable heals so the main thing you gotta be able to do is heal.

Maybe if you has two clerics one might be a CC cleric with low mana recovery.

Human clickies not worth much. Sneak and hide? Maybe.

High elf probably best choice if you’re a min max guy. The best thing about handling and human inno is decent faction at evil places and good places alike. Halfling with de mask is not KoS in any evil city except cab

Can’t go wrong. A normal human is a good choice too if the inno stuff doesn’t do much for you and the limp muscles on the high elf hold you back.

Cleric race choice is the toughest race choice in the game Imo

[Vexenu]

Also the cleric is better than the ENC at every single job the enc does in a duo except the DPS. Cleric breaks the rooms, cleric pacifies (for mana free), cleric does most of the CC except on a crit resist (where the enc is able to free cast without interruptions or building aggro).

You play with bad clerics, and you're not a good enc. That doesn't mean you can't change.

Absolute brainlet take.

Why would you send the guy with rez in to break the room, knowing that a crit resist means death? Versus sending in the Enchanter (who already has max CHA and is thus less likely to crit resist), who can then be rezzed if he does have a crit resist?

Any more high IQ tips?

Also loling at Cleric pacifying with a clickie, as if the Enchanter is hurting for mana with C2/ToT and a Cleric CHing his pet. I don't think the issue is bad Clerics, apparently you've been playing with braindead Enchanters.

Clerics definitely have underrated CC, but with a competent Enchanter partner they won't need to use any of it except throwing out stuns on charm breaks and maybe an occasional root. Otherwise you're just there to, you know, HEAL, the one thing the Enchanter can't do for himself.

[Zuranthium]

Cleric race choice is the toughest race choice in the game Imo

Just don't be an Erudite! (unless you like the Fashion/Roleplay)

[Gustoo]

They have similar critical stats to humans with the addition of I think better resist bonus? Not bad.

[Zuranthium]

Well to me the Snare clicky is a critical part of picking Human if I were going to, and the Erudite doesn't get it. +5 magic resist (but also -5 disease resist) isn't exciting in comparison at all, especially when you also have to suffer the lower strength stat.

[Toxigen]

Absolute brainlet take.

Why would you send the guy with rez in to break the room, knowing that a crit resist means death? Versus sending in the Enchanter (who already has max CHA and is thus less likely to crit resist), who can then be rezzed if he does have a crit resist?

Any more high IQ tips?



Cleric can DA on a crit resist and let the enc aoe mez / clean up the mess. With the rampant use of discord comms this can be done rather seamlessly these days.

You ever had a crit resist splitting a room on an enc at the exact moment your charm pet breaks? Talk about butt pucker.

Not saying you're wrong but a competent cleric can easily split and pull for an enchanter while the pet is finishing off say...the last 2 mobs in camp (or along the crawl path). Keep the enchanter focused on pet breaks / handling camp and leapfrog ahead is pretty OP if the cleric is willing to do it.

If a cleric is simply CHing a pet every so often and buffing / topping off the enc, they should have basically full mana anyway. Obviously if they're struggling with mana usage its best to just have them sit and do their main role...everyone plays at different levels of efficiency.

More than 1 way to skin a cat.

[zelld52]

Cleric get mana free pacify. With 200 cha you won’t get many critical resists.

I was my groups puller and healer 55-60 with Donal bracer. Thurg BP to Mark of Karn the mob and then out to pull again while the group killed. Thurg legs to heal the group, or a Celestial Heal to top off the tank before back out to pulling.

Works really well.

[Solist]

You wont convince shit players there is a better way.

CHA is the only stat that matters and in a duo that's even more so. Yes there is exceptions, like duoing prot/tola, and nothing but your manapool matters. Or monk epics. Or you could have basic farming all broken up and it's all singles etc. But for a group, for crawling, for duoing and seal teaming around zones, for duoing chardok royals, fungi's, etc....cha is king. For CR's it's king. For breaking into camps it's king. For leapfrogging shitty groups it's king.

Sadly there is a point if you play the class reactively and miss out on playing it well that you hit 60 and become a ch bot, and then for 10 years you tell people on forums the class is a healer only. So much more to do and be active (and it's not rocket surgery).

There's very few group compositions that suit the cleric healing primarily; it's pretty rare occasion I identify the best thing to be doing is sitting and medding then healing; controversially heals are the least efficient thing a cleric can do in most groups. When compared to controlling all pulling and CC, and leaving the DPS to do dps instead of run about collecting mobs...not attacking. Even stuffing about with CC is more expensive to do anything except a mana free pacify and atone on an add like an illis shaman or some shit. Fighting mobs while a cleric is sitting there staring at a rooted add that's free casting everything in it's arsenal is incredibly frustrating.

Per above, a cleric breaking rooms with pacify is infinitely better than an enchanter. The enc is free to cast and CC as much as he likes while the cleric DA's the crit fail. 55+ with stun command is pure cheese for HS as an example (where 6 HT's do zero damage to the cleric). There isn't an enc on the server that wouldn't give that job up to a class with far more survivability and also allows the enc to freely fix it. The opposite is the cleric is reactively trying to heal, while also trying to pull aggro against colour/aemez resists/rooting mobs and closing the melee gap to buy enc ability to cast. Velks same deal. Gnome cleric BiS for this for wall vision for targeting.

If you wanna sit and med, click greater heal and root mobs the warrior pulled in sol b or something while he gets wailed on by 3-4 at a time thats fine. Most people do. Most people suck. Or you can spend 30 mana casting 3 lulls at close to zero risk. You spend far less mana keeping single mobs in camp and lose far less mobs to rival groups if your kill order is consistently the same and kill on respawn etc (like sequentially doing every warlord PH so noone else gets one).

[Toxigen]

Agreed, Solist. Just the vast majority of players are shitters and just want to sit there and watch health bars (netflix).

[Zuranthium]

Per above, a cleric breaking rooms with pacify is infinitely better than an enchanter. The enc is free to cast and CC as much as he likes while the cleric DA's the crit fail.

If your plan is to DA a camp to break it, then you don't fucking need Lull at all (and thus Charisma is again irrelevant). That is the inherent flaw with Lull - it's not guaranteed, so if you *need* it to do a camp, then you are simply rolling dice on whether or not it will actually be a benefit. This is especially true in actual Classic EQ; p99 has far lower critical resist rates.

If the Lull is indeed needed to break the camp, then it needs to be the Enchanter doing it. That way the Cleric can rez them and the duo can keep trying until it's successful.

Max mana (Wisdom) on a Cleric impacts their potential ability to do the hardest content and keep a group alive in the most difficult points. Charisma does not impact their ability to actually win fights as much. It is instead a time-saving measurement: "how many lulls will be successful so we don't have to root + camp." Ideally a Cleric would want max in both stats, but more mana is ultimately the more critical thing to have.

[Vexenu]

No one is saying that CHA is useless, or that Clerics can't do a lot of cool stuff with their spell line. We're just saying that CHA is literally ONLY useful in the following circumstances:

1) When you are casting Lull in a situation where a crit fail is guaranteed to kill you.
2) When you are trying to CR yourself naked.

These situations certainly happen, probably to some players more than others depending on their playstyle preferences, but they still represent a tiny fraction of overall playtime. Conversely, max mana is useful 100% of the time, as it functions as a deeper gas tank that you always have available. HP, resists (and even AC to a point) are similarly useful. More is always better.

Is more CHA always better? Sure. But it functionally has no benefit unless you are heavily utilizing Lull in the scenarios outlined above, which means that you have a really strange and risky playstyle and seemingly don't know any good Enchanters, and that you're going on a hell of a lot of solo CRs.

To summarize:

Mana, HP, resists, AC = always useful for keeping yourself and your group alive.
CHA = only useful if you are relying on Lulls to stay alive.

[tadkins]

Cleric race choice is the toughest race choice in the game Imo

An argument can be made too that by picking a more "off the beaten path" cleric race/deity, you're helping the server by being one of the few able to provide that imbue.

Innoruuk, Brell and Tunare priests are a dime a dozen, but good luck to anyone who somehow needs a Bertoxxulous or even Erollisi cleric, for instance.

[Solist]

If your plan is to DA a camp to break it, then you don't fucking need Lull at all (and thus Charisma is again irrelevant). That is the inherent flaw with Lull - it's not guaranteed, so if you *need* it to do a camp, then you are simply rolling dice on whether or not it will actually be a benefit. This is especially true in actual Classic EQ; p99 has far lower critical resist rates.

If the Lull is indeed needed to break the camp, then it needs to be the Enchanter doing it. That way the Cleric can rez them and the duo can keep trying until it's successful.

Max mana (Wisdom) on a Cleric impacts their potential ability to do the hardest content and keep a group alive in the most difficult points. Charisma does not impact their ability to actually win fights as much. It is instead a time-saving measurement: "how many lulls will be successful so we don't have to root + camp." Ideally a Cleric would want max in both stats, but more mana is ultimately the more critical thing to have.

Again, I apologise that you likely don't play with competent people. If you step outside the mindset you've shoehorned every class in to there is a different, more efficient way to play. There is two tenets to think about which is reducing RNG to the lowest portion of any outcome in your actions so the player has the most control, and when RNG happens negatively be in a position to be better off. It is very often (but not always) the best bet for the cleric to do those, allowing the enc freedom to cast. It is very often (but not always) best for the cleric to have the highest stats that serve them the most for the given task.

High manapools serve little purpose except in the most protracted fights. If your mana never hits zero, you had too much mana and that was a total waste of stats equipped. You could fight for 10 hours crawling around HS and never go under 40m...You had too much mana. Your enc probably died 4 times from shit lull fails though. If you're smart you kept the pet pacified for free the entire time so the CR didn't involve backtracking to find a pet or losing 5k of gear. If the cleric did the room breaks, noone ever dies as cleric gets the same RNG for critical fails as the enc. But the cleric survives them every single time. A critical fail for the cleric can be significantly worse and be survivable for the group, than if it happens to the enc.

Those long protracted fights are generally the result of poor players not tracking spawn/spawn timers, mass pulling rooms etc. You never need those mana pools outside of raiding except in some super unique situations (like I said, duo chardok royals, duo monk epic fights, etc).

Again you really need to elevate your play to appreciate how to control what can be controlled, and mitigate RNG that cant be the best way either class or group composition allows. Emp in seb is an

Can I also raise the point that the enc doesn't need to cap cha when generally charming and fighting around, 205-210 is fine. That leaves a LOT of extra AC and HP available to gear if your regular partner is a capped CHA cleric. Totally changes the gear dynamic for a pair of buddies or a husband/wife team etc. Enc survivability goes through the roof with AC.

No one is saying that CHA is useless, or that Clerics can't do a lot of cool stuff with their spell line. We're just saying that CHA is literally ONLY useful in the following circumstances:

1) When you are casting Lull in a situation where a crit fail is guaranteed to kill you.
2) When you are trying to CR yourself naked.

These situations certainly happen, probably to some players more than others depending on their playstyle preferences, but they still represent a tiny fraction of overall playtime. Conversely, max mana is useful 100% of the time, as it functions as a deeper gas tank that you always have available. HP, resists (and even AC to a point) are similarly useful. More is always better.

Is more CHA always better? Sure. But it functionally has no benefit unless you are heavily utilizing Lull in the scenarios outlined above, which means that you have a really strange and risky playstyle and seemingly don't know any good Enchanters, and that you're going on a hell of a lot of solo CRs.

To summarize:

Mana, HP, resists, AC = always useful for keeping yourself and your group alive.
CHA = only useful if you are relying on Lulls to stay alive.

You're claming there is only two situations. I'd say those two situations are wrong you've mentioned. But until you go and do it yourself, you're just commenting from the sidelines.

My own experience has changed in a dozen years. Early on P99 I deliberately played a low cha cleric, avoided the stat as much as possible. My entire meta for playing as a cleric revolved around being a hillbilly and just healing. Then realising there is more to do and play with, so built the toon around duo/trio comps where we could invis pull, so would rely on my low CHA, & land invis while lull cast, and single pull fungi king/HS nameds/drusallar necks/emp/etc. I stopped farming fungi's when they went under 115-125k or so if that's a reference as to when on p99 that was. It worked well as I could duo king with any class that could survive 20 seconds between ch's and could invis me (mage/war/ranger/etc), then the invis pulling was patched.

A week after that patch I delevelled & deleted my (vp geared) 60 cleric, rerolled max cha halfling. It wasn't a good trade losing snare for sneak, deleted him at 60 (rip another hosh stick). PS. you can't loot a dead corpse of an identically named player if you delete and reroll with same name.

Got the dark elf back and relevelled with max cha gear...even with the shit race I found it was game changing at that point. A few friends cottoned on to it and all did the same too. So I made plans for green human/inny for green launch. The combo was amazing, but I missed wall vision too much and it was very time and mana consuming recasting IVU to get next two targets in guk, or during the rubi farming process wall vision would have been huge while calm moving around cazic thule. So I've kind of landed on bertox gnome being best possible for my play style (ideally you want a tunare snare 1hb), and I appreciate the human inny as well almost as much as I do very occasionally wish I had a castable snare. But nowhere near as much as I missed wall vision. Gnome easier/cheaper mobility through doors with aon/probes, easier targeting and scouting. Wall vision for me is just huge though, for others they don't use it or miss it.

In summary
So I've tried the 3.6k mana near BiS kunark cle with low cha. (server first hosh staff, 4th? donals bp, manastone etc)
Tried the 2.8k mana cha kunark cle with high cha (hosh staff, donals, manastone etc)
Tried the full cha set vanilla cle (with full hp set obvs as AC was dogshit, and manastones duhh)
Tried the full cha set velious, and settled on a 3.7k mana alternate or 240cha primary gear (all the usual clickies)
And have played plenty of 4k-4.1k mana velious cle as a reference point.

The velious cha set one is by far the best. You give up almost nothing and absolutely trivialise group content. You allow your group to be almost any composition and you can make it work. Thats at all game levels and content releases through velious. In classic/vanilla on green I was the 2nd? cleric to 49 behing bayleigh and being able to be super mobile and CR groups in efreeti/lguk/etc was lucritive on its own. Let alone able to pac rooms and just manastone/HP set/undead nuke frenzy/undead tower nameds all night. Controlling all the pulls in highkeep so we could keep it as a duo/trio and not need a half dozen idiots riding coat tails pulling 3 at once inefficiently. I do remember only maybe 3 or 4 clerics on the server went that route and we all did the same dumb shit no other cleric could and I think it changed a lot of peoples minds who were around.

So for me cha is the primary stat. Especially in velious when you don't sacrifice that much and maintain a workable amount of AC/HP too. As I said you could have 8,000mana and if you only ever used the first 2,000, you had 6k mana of wasted stats and probably had a real shit time not being able to spend it; watching people die in botched pulls etc. CHA isn't always the best stat, and sometimes full mana is, I don't think anyone could argue that. There has been times on P99 where we sacrificed every stat for others like pre velious even max MR and at times we ran max PR and FR sets on P99 with 355 resist caps but those days don't exist. But I'd say for almost every person playing a cleric that isn't a dedicated CH bot on protracted mana intensive fights like unslowable raid content... You can get along just fine in full cha set and by the time you're 60/collect some raid pixels, your mana is appropriate to be better than most guilds cleric bots anyway.

Huge swing...
There is absolutely the same argument for others classes I'll also say but for the sake of a paragraph, discussing AC vs HP on a warrior. Parsing some of the raid content on p99 over the years it's just laughable how much bossses are over-tuned from 'live' figures and thus how irrelevent AC is when you are a raid tank at any content above vindi and kunark dragons. But if you get in an xp group there is some 65-6700hp tanks on p99 that are significantly worse than a 6k tank in a ridiculously high AC setup. Wearing the AC gear on anything resembling a raid boss is a mistake (to make that clear, doubly). One of my warriors has a few gear swaps for a quick 250AC change and the difference is incredible (+50 from ears swap, +20 from ring swap, +35 offhand swap, +45 range swap, +20 from neck) if you tank a dracolich, VS, or group content/chardok stuff/run around seb for fun etc. It goes against all of the p99 obsession with maximum HP warriors but reality is all those group tanks should care about nothing but AC for maximum exp/hour/efficiency. But that change is measurable, instantly recognisable.

Anyway I'm done preaching, I'd rather just see people experiment with it themselves and test it out and come to whatever conclusion the data and empirical feel of the gameplay is. Some just want to sit in the corner, med, click the box with the shorter green bar and click a heal. That has worked fine for clerics on everquest for years, still does today on EQ. Some wizards want to sit and nuke, some enchanters would rather have someone pull 6 mobs and they CC it rather than them leaving camp and pre pacifying a few, some warriors cant taunt mezzed mobs and cycle targets mid fight and just hope for the best. There are many different ways to play, and a high cha cleric is a way to turn a reactive class into a very active one. Thats why I say cha is the dominant stat. And I keep a high mana set for those times I need long CH endurance, but I just log on one of my other clerics for that anyway. Easily is just about perfect as is, for anyone that's played with him :)

[Solist]

An argument can be made too that by picking a more "off the beaten path" cleric race/deity, you're helping the server by being one of the few able to provide that imbue.

Innoruuk, Brell and Tunare priests are a dime a dozen, but good luck to anyone who somehow needs a Bertoxxulous or even Erollisi cleric, for instance.

That's a huge oversight on my part, and super valuable to some people. I really should smith up the bertox cleric just to be able to do that stuff. It's already high-ish from the sanctum earring quest. Great observation!

[tadkins]

That's a huge oversight on my part, and super valuable to some people. I really should smith up the bertox cleric just to be able to do that stuff. It's already high-ish from the sanctum earring quest. Great observation!

A while back I saw an Erudite Pally wearing a full set of Imbued Steelsilk, the Quellious version. Which means somewhere out there is an actual Erudite Cleric who actively chose Quellious as their deity. Just ignored all the min/maxxing and went for that choice, probably for RP reasons. I'd love to know that story. Just kind of cool to think about.

[sajbert]

Gnomes are badass BUT terrible, terrible stats (low wis, low str, low cha) and no useful clickies. Wallhack is a convenience, but halflings can do pretty much the same thing and so can most other races if they sit down a bit. It's not like we lull as much as chanters do.
No one is saying that CHA is useless, or that Clerics can't do a lot of cool stuff with their spell line. We're just saying that CHA is literally ONLY useful in the following circumstances:

1) When you are casting Lull in a situation where a crit fail is guaranteed to kill you.
2) When you are trying to CR yourself naked.

Uh.. no?

Lulling is useful in situations where a failed lull COULD kill you. It's useful in situations where a failed lull could set you back a significant amount of mana and time.

[Zuranthium]

Again, I apologise that you likely don't play with competent people.

Stop repeating useless phrases, it doesn't give you any real point. The FACT of the matter is that if Lull is needed to break a room, it should not be the Cleric doing it, when there is someone else there with the ability. It's a simple single point of failure scenario. The encounter is won or lost based upon Lull being successful or not, so the Cleric should not be the person doing it. You put another person in that position, and keep bringing them back with Cleric rez as needed, until enough Lulls are successful such that the encounter can be won.

High manapools serve little purpose except in the most protracted fights.

Those are the fights in the game that actually matter. Most players want to be able to raid or do other challenging group content in order to get the best loot. Telling a cleric to chase after CHA stat instead of getting mana is hindering their ability to be successful in the most important modes of the game.

Those long protracted fights are generally the result of poor players not tracking spawn/spawn timers, mass pulling rooms etc. You never need those mana pools outside of raiding except in some super unique situations (like I said, duo chardok royals, duo monk epic fights, etc).

Inaccurate. Long protracted fights can be the result of needing to pull a large number of NPC's so that another group can't tag them before your group. A VERY COMMON scenario in this game.

Again you really need to elevate your play to appreciate how to control what can be controlled, and mitigate RNG that cant be the best way either class or group composition allows. Emp in seb is an

There is nothing elevated about your play compared to mine, stop thinking that. You've said nothing new of value and "high skill" Cleric play in this game pales in comparison to what it is elsewhere; you would be lost in Guild Wars 1 PvP. Love how you just ended this paragraph mid sentence.

Racing to 50 on a new server, you could have an argument about prioritizing Charisma. But that's not what the game is right now. It can also be helpful to prioritize CHA if you're playing the character for a specific small group purpose. But again, that's not what most Clerics are trying to do in the game.

[Danth]

It can also be helpful to prioritize CHA if you're playing the character for a specific small group purpose. But again, that's not what most Clerics are trying to do in the game.

That's the most important bit. Yes, charisma is useful to a certain subset of players. No, it is not and never will be the primary statistic for the large majority of clerics. As such, wisdom should be recommended, rightly, as the class's primary attribute. No single recommendation can encompass all individuals, especially not in a game as loosely-tuned as this one where quite often multiple tactics can achieve success. Excceptions always exist and that is a strength of this game, not a weakness--we don't need to be cookie-cutter. Charisma is a fine secondary statistic that can be of primary importance to some players.

[Vexenu]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold_Jester%27s_Crown
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crude_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Velium_Necklace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Seahorse_Spine_Bracelet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein

+87 CHA from 6 cheap items (one's even free) . Throw them on when you're in the rare situation where a failed lull is guaranteed to kill you. Keep them in the bag the other 99.99% of your playtime when you aren't that worried about it, and prioritize much more valuable stats like WIS, HP, mana, AC, etc...

CHA is not a dump stat but it's extremely overrated in importance for Paladins and Clerics given how cheap and abundant +CHA gear is and how rarely you actually NEED to maximize it to survive.

Quoting a post I made in another similar thread awhile back. +87 CHA in 6 very cheap items. Put them on in the rare instance where you really don't want a crit lull fail.

Solist seems to have a really weird playstyle (and seems like a really weird dude in general, no offense, but not many people re-roll two level 60 Clerics for such trivial reasons) so maybe CHA is useful for him. Most people roll Clerics to raid, group or duo with an Enchanter. In all three of those roles you are very rarely well-served by stacking CHA, and in those rare cases you do need it, see the post I quoted above about how easily and cheaply you can acquire +CHA gear.

[Tethler]

Just bag half a set of charisma gear and put it on when you need to lull, use regular gear otherwise. No need to dedicate your permanent gear set to charisma.

[PabloEdvardo]

Dont (Solist) and Bayleigh were inspirations on Green when I was leveling my Cleric in classic.

They did a lot of crazy shit.

My Human Inny Cleric was not max CHA, and I never ended up needing it with my play style, but for those who prefer the duo/solo style of cleric, it makes a big difference.

Later on (Kunark+), I would say it's more irrelevant because it's trivial to carry a strong CHA set for when you need it. Those who already rolled max CHA for Classic weren't screwed, but it wasn't as relevant.

In regards to the chanter versus the cleric breaking camps... you're both right. I'd much rather send a cleric in with 2 DAs to break a room full of HT mobs and have the chanter peel them off with AE CC, etc. than risk a crit pull on the chanter and a lengthy rez/reset.

However for breaking non-HT rooms, the chanter is the no-brainer choice for most clerics. I would say that since Solist already had the CHA it just made more sense for them to jump into that role since they were comfortable with it, but it's definitely not "objectively the better way to do it" -- depends on your play style.

[tadkins]

The original intent of this thread was regarding CHA and halfling clerics, namely pairing sneak with lulls.

I remember a while back a halfling cleric helped my wizard get through Lower Guk to pull out the rod for the Staff of the Wheel from deep inside. He lulled a lot of things and helped me get through most of the mobs. The reason I considered going with a halfling cleric is that they seemed like they'd be able to travel seamlessly through a lot of places, which could be useful if, say, a group is deep inside a dungeon, needing a cleric, but unable to get to me to bring me over.

[Snaggles]

With a decent CHA set you can lull walk blues with high success. Worst case unless you pull like 5 on a crit fail you have options. Root, atone, gate, PE/Pacify/camp or DA bomb to the zone.

I think it’s a bit worse on a pally without a blur or a long duration root which is why I’ve always had a serious lull kit in the bag.

[cutelittlecow]

Not that my opinion really matters much, but I resonate a lot with Dont/Solist on the majority of what some consider to be "hot" takes.

I do realize that it was also brought up that CC, breaking rooms, etc., should moreso fall on an Enchanter. During the Kunark leveling race I ended up playing with a friend of mine at the time that rolled a Gnome Enchanter, and in that situation, I had more CHA on my Cleric as a Human when we had to do corpse recoveries as I started with as many starting points into CHA as I could have. This decision actually saved us a lot of headache down the line as I had a much greater success when it came to successfully not critical resisting my lulls as compared to my partner.

Obviously everyone's playstyle is different and utilizing your entire toolkit isn't always necessary, but to neglect that it's there is honestly just pretty bad.

All that being said, this thread was about Halflings. It might hurt not having a bunch of CHA, but sneak in it's own right is a very valuable tool in some situations, especially so at end game. You trade being exceptional at one thing for having something that no one else has, which is honestly very fair. Overall, you'll be able to get plenty of CHA from gear in the long run, and for what you can't get, there are always buffs and potions.

-- Bayleigh

[Toxigen]

With a decent CHA set you can lull walk blues with high success. Worst case unless you pull like 5 on a crit fail you have options. Root, atone, gate, PE/Pacify/camp or DA bomb to the zone.

I think it’s a bit worse on a pally without a blur or a long duration root which is why I’ve always had a serious lull kit in the bag.

Rocking 210 buffed CHA on my paladood. Been splitting rats in hole with ease at level 54 for my trio.

Clerics and paladins really can't get enough CHA.

[zelld52]

Clerics and paladins really can't get enough CHA.

Imagine how fun it is being group puller and healer simultaneously as 200CHA cleric with a mana-free Pacify. And then mama-free mark of Karn:

[Snaggles]

Rocking 210 buffed CHA on my paladood. Been splitting rats in hole with ease at level 54 for my trio.

Clerics and paladins really can't get enough CHA.

Yea a CHA set just expands your mobility and pulling ability. Usually if the stakes are low I just swap in a Jester crown, Crude Stein, and a couple overseer rings. Proc the Glamor sword and you are fairly functional stat wise. It’s nice to have more though, for trying to crawl to a group etc.

Worst case a crit resist puts like 4 spawns on the tank. Not a horrible outcome if your CC’s are there to help.

[Toxigen]

Yea a CHA set just expands your mobility and pulling ability. Usually if the stakes are low I just swap in a Jester crown, Crude Stein, and a couple overseer rings. Proc the Glamor sword and you are fairly functional stat wise. It’s nice to have more though, for trying to crawl to a group etc.

Worst case a crit resist puts like 4 spawns on the tank. Not a horrible outcome if your CC’s are there to help.

The way I see it, you're just further mitigating the damage when that "oh fuck RNG" comes calling.

We've all been there. Crit resist happens at the exact same time charm breaks, your enc / cleric are caught snoozing an extra couple seconds, meanwhile you're getting romped on by 3-4 hard-hitting rats, oh and hey that roamer max level golem just popped and it ate your enc.

You get the idea. If everyone played perfectly all the time...ok sure crit resists aren't a big deal. Its just when bad RNG snowballs with player error into a serious problem that you'll thank yourself for having that CHA.

[ya.dingus]

You're going to want CHA.

I had a dwarf cleric on blue, and doing corpse runs with that sweet 50 cha sucked. Even when a bag of full Cha gear, it was brutal.

If you have it in your kit and utilizing it means you can do great things with it - do not neglect it.

Being a skilled player is mastery over all aspects of your class.

[Solist]

Not that my opinion really matters much, but I resonate a lot with Dont/Solist on the majority of what some consider to be "hot" takes.

I do realize that it was also brought up that CC, breaking rooms, etc., should moreso fall on an Enchanter. During the Kunark leveling race I ended up playing with a friend of mine at the time that rolled a Gnome Enchanter, and in that situation, I had more CHA on my Cleric as a Human when we had to do corpse recoveries as I started with as many starting points into CHA as I could have. This decision actually saved us a lot of headache down the line as I had a much greater success when it came to successfully not critical resisting my lulls as compared to my partner.

Obviously everyone's playstyle is different and utilizing your entire toolkit isn't always necessary, but to neglect that it's there is honestly just pretty bad.

All that being said, this thread was about Halflings. It might hurt not having a bunch of CHA, but sneak in it's own right is a very valuable tool in some situations, especially so at end game. You trade being exceptional at one thing for having something that no one else has, which is honestly very fair. Overall, you'll be able to get plenty of CHA from gear in the long run, and for what you can't get, there are always buffs and potions.

-- Bayleigh

The change in attitude towards cleric charisma is almost exclusively attributed to yourself, Falamin, Liia and myself on both servers. Was a massive amount of fun trying to chase you guys down on the way to 50 there and arguably the best p99 has ever been for me.

I think the most prudent point I agree with you is about using your toolkit. Any player using all their available tools creatively will run circles around someone in the best 'meta' not using their abilities. Suppose that's broader advice though and is true for many classes.

But circling back after re-reading some of this thread I'll double down. Max cha cleric is the best group cleric, and duo/trio cleric, and by far the best solo cleric possible. It is the worst raid cleric. Aside from duo with a warrior doing Xenovorash I can't see a reason to have max mana really. Having a class that can DA do room breaks, and leave an enchanter or other group members able to freecast while mobs do zero damage is very efficient. Healing is by far the least efficient thing a cleric can ever do of the common group roles.

Reducing mob DPS is not some crazy concept. Thats why you single pull with a monk/dru/ranger/bard, thats why you mez stuff with a bard/enc/nec, thats why you root/snare/whatever. It's all to reduce DPS. Doing so on a cleric is no different and frees up the actual dps classes to do their job in some situations while you manage singles. When you eliminate any instance of two mobs doing dps at once your healing load goes down significantly which sounds astonishingly simple but is somehow abstract in game for people playing clerics?

Then you become a raid cleric and outside of a ch neck/neck recharge/reaper doing your own chain for a full coth cycle you are the most boring class to play.

[Vexenu]

Having a class that can DA do room breaks, and leave an enchanter or other group members able to freecast while mobs do zero damage is very efficient. Healing is by far the least efficient thing a cleric can ever do of the common group roles.


1) Given that a Cleric has double DAs to fall back on during crit lull fails, why exactly is max CHA so important to begin with? Are you really going to say you're pumping CHA just for CRs?

2) If Cleric healing is inefficient, whose healing is efficient? Who should heal the group instead?

ITT: good players massively overthinking the Cleric class You're there to heal, bros. You have other tools in the toolbox to be sure. And Cleric lulls are very legit and powerful. But the class isn't built around them. I mean, I suppose you can make an argument for it if you have a very niche playstyle built around dungeon crawling in duos/trios. But I think every other grouping/raiding Cleric is better off maxing their mana pool, and carrying around a bag of +CHA gear (which is plentiful and cheap) for the rare occasions they need it.

Groups and raids in EQ have probably wiped about 1000x more often because a Cleric ran OOM than because the Cleric puller got a crit lull resist at an inopportune moment.

"Group LF Cleric to pull for us instead of healing," said no one ever.

[PatChapp]

1) Given that a Cleric has double DAs to fall back on during crit lull fails, why exactly is max CHA so important to begin with? Are you really going to say you're pumping CHA just for CRs?

2) If Cleric healing is inefficient, whose healing is efficient? Who should heal the group instead?

ITT: good players massively overthinking the Cleric class You're there to heal, bros. You have other tools in the toolbox to be sure. And Cleric lulls are very legit and powerful. But the class isn't built around them. I mean, I suppose you can make an argument for it if you have a very niche playstyle built around dungeon crawling in duos/trios. But I think every other grouping/raiding Cleric is better off maxing their mana pool, and carrying around a bag of +CHA gear (which is plentiful and cheap) for the rare occasions they need it.

Groups and raids in EQ have probably wiped about 1000x more often because a Cleric ran OOM than because the Cleric puller got a crit lull resist at an inopportune moment.

"Group LF Cleric to pull for us instead of healing," said no one ever.

Cha cleric with paci bracer is a much better puller in an enchanter/cleric duo than the enchanter.
Mana free,and allows the enchanter to handle problems as they happen.

[Vexenu]

Cha cleric with paci bracer is a much better puller in an enchanter/cleric duo than the enchanter.
Mana free,and allows the enchanter to handle problems as they happen.

There may be some scenarios where this is true, but again, if you're a Cleric with two DAs and an Ench to peel mobs off you, why do you need to max CHA to begin with? A crit resist isn't going to matter in 99% of cases, and if there is a pull so risky it might get the Cleric killed on a crit resist, guess what? The Cleric shouldn't be pulling in that case, anyway! The Enchanter should, since the Cleric can rez him back in if it all goes south.

Also let's be honest, assuming two players of reasonable intelligence and experience, you can basically do whatever the hell you want with Ench/Cleric anyway. You're not exactly hurting for efficiency.

[Toxigen]

nah the cleric pulls in that duo, sorry you dont got hope that helped

[Jimjam]

nah the cleric pulls in that duo, sorry you dont got hope that helped

Will sk mobs burn their HT reuse timer if the only thing on their aggro list is a DA cleric?

[Snaggles]

"Need" is a highly subjective word for a class that most of the time heals, buffs, and rezzes people.

Also for what it's worth, any competent puller (including ench's) will fight the cleric tooth and nail to let them pull for the group. It's an all-eggs-in-one-basket situation but more than that trying to reframe the team dynamic. In P99 most people are pretty locked in their ways...just let them do it the way they want to do it. If you have an unique small group thinking outside the box then sure, figure out any other system and have fun.

[PatChapp]

"Need" is a highly subjective word for a class that most of the time heals, buffs, and rezzes people.

Also for what it's worth, any competent puller (including ench's) will fight the cleric tooth and nail to let them pull for the group. It's an all-eggs-in-one-basket situation but more than that trying to reframe the team dynamic. In P99 most people are pretty locked in their ways...just let them do it the way they want to do it. If you have an unique small group thinking outside the box then sure, figure out any other system and have fun.

There is nothing outside the box about a cleric enchanter duo. Strongest duo in the game,certain spots monk/shaman are a little better - like fungi king

[Crede]

nah the cleric pulls in that duo, sorry you dont got hope that helped

Correct. Idk why people expect the enc to do all the work with the cleric just sitting at FM nuking & tossing a CH once in awhile. Paci bracer is OP, and a cleric can easily be rocking 200+ cha with enchanter buffs if they rolled their race/stats properly. And you can do some cool pulling tricks with DA/DB, like the HS west room after the ledge.

[Vexenu]

If you're pulling on a Cleric specifically to eat a roomful of HTs with DA, again, why do you need high CHA? You might as well pull with a nuke in that case.

There are vanishingly few scenarios I can think of in EQ where the Cleric should be the one in the group/duo doing something risky that might get them killed instead of another party member. This should be obvious and require no explanation. So the only situation in which a Cleric should be pulling are those which are relatively low risk to begin with. Which means pumping CHA is more a matter of convenience than survival.

[Danth]

I'm mostly with you Vexenu. I know a cleric can pull if he has to. I usually don't want him doing that. We're on a server where a wipe = forfeiting a camp; maintaining presence matters. I don't want my rezzer unnecessarily risking himself in normal gameplay. Of course some scenarios fall outside that general rule of thumb. Chaining low-risk blue exp fodder or in an area with no competition, or pushing the envelope where a death means a wipe regardless due to fast spawns or lack of safe areas, then sure, have at it. Cleric pulling someplace like chardok royals is fair game on that account.

Danth

[Crede]

There are so many uses for CHA and it is one of the main reasons enchanters are so good at what they do. Clerics get a free Pacify click bracer which is not a cheap spell to cast normally. It comes in handy also when doing a CR and having to get to the corpse. I've seen clerics lead groups to kills with paci cralling. And the more CHA you have, the less swaps you need to do to get closer to max(which isn't easy on a dwarf who neglected cha completely).

CHA is the hardest stat to cap in Velious, period, whereas WIS is probably the easiest.

[Snaggles]

There is nothing outside the box about a cleric enchanter duo. Strongest duo in the game,certain spots monk/shaman are a little better - like fungi king

I’m a bit confused but wouldn’t disagree with that.

I’ve grouped with an enchanter before who wouldn’t let me buff him. Some want the cleric or pally to peel charm breaks. Being willing and able is a great thing.

My only point is if someone is skilled at pulling and just wants you to heal the pet or save them with heals on a break, don’t push to help lull out a room if they turn you down. It’s a nice thing for a cleric to be comfortable with but killing the only rezzer is a quick way to ruin the fun.

[Deadfather]

Interesting conversation. I usually play my cleric duo/ trio as I’m litterally dying of boredom in group settings. Currently lvl58 and when duo with ench in HS, sebilis or Hole, I’m doing the paci stuff. Rolled human inny but usually carry shrink pots for wall vision and /target. Don’t have a high cha, perhaps 180 buffed but its good enough. As mentioned before, DA if crit fail, let chanter aoe mez. I dont see any problem with this play style. Pacify is mana intensive for the chanter, they usually appreciate the cleric doing it.

[Crede]

Interesting conversation. I usually play my cleric duo/ trio as I’m litterally dying of boredom in group settings. Currently lvl58 and when duo with ench in HS, sebilis or Hole, I’m doing the paci stuff. Rolled human inny but usually carry shrink pots for wall vision and /target. Don’t have a high cha, perhaps 180 buffed but its good enough. As mentioned before, DA if crit fail, let chanter aoe mez. I dont see any problem with this play style. Pacify is mana intensive for the chanter, they usually appreciate the cleric doing it.

If your enc is casting pacify they’re doing it wrong. Calm will do the job for much cheaper. You rarely need pacify duration.

[Snaggles]

There are certainly situations pacify is better. It’s easier to lull out a room like Chardok royals with resets needed. A cleric will never be doing that though.

Even my pally which is a much less extreme chess piece to risk I bet 5% of the time an enchanter, monk, or bard will take me up on it. Past the risk of losing the rezzer, most people who play these classes take splitting to a mini-game level (or are too proud to hand over the keys).

To each their own though. We all have different approaches and group relationships.

[PatChapp]

There are certainly situations pacify is better. It’s easier to lull out a room like Chardok royals with resets needed. A cleric will never be doing that though.

Even my pally which is a much less extreme chess piece to risk I bet 5% of the time an enchanter, monk, or bard will take me up on it. Past the risk of losing the rezzer, most people who play these classes take splitting to a mini-game level (or are too proud to hand over the keys).

To each their own though. We all have different approaches and group relationships.

We use a cleric with a paci bracer to paci queen room. With an enchanter there to blanket on a fail it's very safe. Not much point on king,since you can just gate

[Solist]

There are certainly situations pacify is better. It’s easier to lull out a room like Chardok royals with resets needed. A cleric will never be doing that though.

Even my pally which is a much less extreme chess piece to risk I bet 5% of the time an enchanter, monk, or bard will take me up on it. Past the risk of losing the rezzer, most people who play these classes take splitting to a mini-game level (or are too proud to hand over the keys).

To each their own though. We all have different approaches and group relationships.

I do it exclusively on a cleric. Rezbox for self, enc keeps pet. Can have enough mana for that fight in seconds or donals legs through it.

[Snaggles]

Not saying you can’t. Just more of a gamble (if the content is dangerous) for the person with less likely to have 255 CHA and the ability to rez.

Meanwhile the cleric can just keep the pet targeted for stun breaks or CH while it destroys the whole zone. If the pet is pacified and the cleric stays back it’s a quick reset.

[Toxigen]

they dont think it be like it is but it do

[enjchanter]

Charisma is super-important for cleric if you plan on using the Pacify line at all. Charisma doesn't affect the chance of being successful, but it does affect the chance of aggro on a resist.

The formula for rolls to check for crit resist are (apparently):



So with 50 charisma, at level 30 - You get + 0.105 added to your roll between -0.1 and 0.1. If that number is lower than the mob roll, you get aggro.

With 150 charisma, at level 30 - You get + 0.235 added to your roll between -0.1 and 0.1. Much higher chance of beating the mob roll on a resist.

Do you have the charm formulas as welm