Which is the highest DPS that each class(W/N/M/E) can reach?

[LordVictor]

Just for curiosity. I"m an noob at moment(lv 31 nec) but so far reading the wiki and posts :

Enchanter : I believe that the strongest charmed pet + buffs can reach about 250~300 DPS (not sure)

Wizard : Only using very specific spells, using Porlos' Fury or Hsagra's Wrath, he can dish 2000 damage in 6 seconds to cast or 333.333... DPS

Magician : Epic pet seems to deal aobut 90 DPS according to other thread answer. Sirroco(5.5 cast time + 6 secs to all waves hit) = 176. Total = 266 DPS

Necromancer : Emissary of Thule seems able to do 55 DPS + 17 DPS from Devouring Darknes + 18.5 from Pyrocruor + Envenomed Bolt = 18.3 + Vexing Mordinia = 18.6 = 127.4 DPS only from DoTs + Trucidation(no ones uses as DPS, due reagent) = 189.44 DPS or 313 DPS

* With Touch of Night, the DPS for necro is merely 247.4 (120 + 247.4)

Despite necros being the lowest DPS for short fights without an expensive reagent, I believe that for long fights, they are the best DPS but there are boo much variables involved.

[Pumpkinguy]

Nothing in a group would live long enough for you to get that many dots on a target, let alone for them to actually get their dps rolling. Raid bosses will resist most of necro dots and they don’t stack with other necros.

Dots are useful for soloing or duo in certain circumstances.

Pure dps enchanter is best over the long haul because of mob scaling.

Wizard is super good dps against certain raid targets that bane spells work against and ok against some others.

Mage dps would be great if their spells would land, but everything is resisted. Mage dps in groups however is great. Damage shield, pet and can burst nuke when needed.

[Troxx]

I’m going to comment on sustained dps vs max dps in an all out burn.

-Enchanter: with a Krup frog in seb charmed, hasted, quadding and with haste item is 140-165ish dps. In some zones enchanters can charm nastier higher hitting mobs. So the limit is really what zone they are in and what they can safely charm. In standard xp groups you will see most enchanters charming safer mobs that will put out 100-120 dps. With insane pet options you could see even higher than a Krup.

-Necromancer: if they are in an area they can charm their dps will be comparable to average ench charm dps + their own nukes (so probably will average higher than enchanters. If not charming EoT at max summon is a respectable 50-60 dps. Toss in liberal life taps and nukes with lich regen and you’re probably looking at sustained dps in the 85-100 range. Very respectable. On a fast burn they can do higher. If it’s a burn on an undead even better due to mana efficiency and stronger punch power.

Magician: max summon water pet and epic pet are fairly similar dps unless the epic pet is tanking and applying its massive dmg shield. Epic pet used to be better but was hit in pet nerf as well - less impressive now. Water pet fully buffed and max hasted will sit at 60-65 dps if not positioned and 70-75 if backstabbing. Epic pet averages a few dps higher. On my mage with basic c2 in high level camps I tend to average 100-120 dps. On a full burn could kiss over 200dps but this is not sustainable. RAIN SPELLS ARE ACTUALLY BAD DPS BECAUSE OF BUILT IN AUTOMATIC RESIST RATES

Wizards: get the short end of the stick. Sustained dps is literally the sum total of their mana regen, down time for medding, and converting that mana into dps. Free dps clickies help maintain a certain degree of bottom line but they lack in the sustained category due to no pet. On burns, to beat out the others they have to magically burn harder than both the other casters’ spells and their pets. Wizards kinda get the shaft. On an all out burn where they can’t use bane nukes they may be able to squeak ahead of a mage + pet of very lucky. If they can use bane nukes they are very VERY STRONG burst dps for as long as their mana holds out.


In general you’re going to see the following for dps in a group.

Ballsy enchanter with super super pet >= ballsy necro charm + dd > safer necro charm + dd > safer ench >= standard mage kit with pet > standard necro also nuking >>> wizard

Without any ballsy targets to charm:

Necro charm + dd > standard ench charm >= mage standard + pet > necro standard + pet >>> wizard

And with no undead:

Ench charm >= mage standard + pet > necro standard + pet >>> wizard

[Balimon]

The OP is asking what the highest DPS is that these classes can put out, and even if rain spells resist they are added DPS because you can cast other spells while the waves land. For mage I'd say something like this:

Sirocco: 3 waves 1890 / 2 waves 1260 = 171 / 114 dps
Scars of Sigil: 450 damage over 2 seconds = 225 dps
Pet: Let's go with 70 as a good average
Total : 466 dps / 409 dps

Obviously this isn't always doable, and raiding this wouldn't work because of resist rates. But for group / solo content this is doable. I use the Sirocco/SoS combo to kill the shardwurm matriarch in GD, it's the only way for mages to drop it 40% -> 0% in 10 seconds while it's chealing.

[Troxx]

The OP is asking what the highest DPS is that these classes can put out, and even if rain spells resist they are added DPS because you can cast other spells while the waves land.

With all due respect that’s kinda like asking what a warrior’s max dps is on p99 and then a 60 raid warrior with Gauldrek saying “maybe over 400 dps” is the highest because every attack could be a triple attack, always hit, and always hit for max damage.

It’s super unfortunate that rain spells on p99 are so broken. They have a built in 25% flat out chance of resistance and having a pet in range will take away additional possible hits.

I would not consider rains part of the mage dps equation.

[Toxigen]

Full kit Velious wizards do pretty well actually.

oFVDtDY1xlQ

extreme case, but wizzies are def better (again, in raids) than the bad rep they get

[Jimjam]

With all due respect that’s kinda like asking what a warrior’s max dps is on p99 and then a 60 raid warrior with Gauldrek saying “maybe over 400 dps” is the highest because every attack could be a triple attack, always hit, and always hit for max damage.

It’s super unfortunate that rain spells on p99 are so broken. They have a built in 25% flat out chance of resistance and having a pet in range will take away additional possible hits.

I would not consider rains part of the mage dps equation.

Don't forget all those hits could be crips and under fell strike ;)

[Troxx]

Full kit Velious wizards do pretty well actually.

oFVDtDY1xlQ

extreme case, but wizzies are def better (again, in raids) than the bad rep they get

Yeah wizards with bane nukes on susceptible raid mobs are absolutely insane damage. With evocation specialty name nukes cost 391.5 mana per and gives an unresistable 2k nuke. 5.1 damage per mana ratio that will always land. With 4K mana pool that’s 20,434 damage and at 6 sec cast time that’s 333.33 guaranteed dps.

20 such wizards (not counting mana regen) could unload half a million damage in 61 seconds.

I’m glad they have that one ace in the hole. They really need it.

Once oom and medding with c2, potg and bard (~49 mana/tick meditating) you’re looking at an unreistable sustained dps of 41.65 if you run the napkin math.

In a one minute burn 333 dps.
By minute 2 (oom and sustained nuking) you drop to around 187 sustained dps.
By minute 3 it’s still a healthy 138 dps.
Minute 4 114 dps (still good).
Minute 5 99.92 dps
Minute 6 90.2 dps

Wizards with bane nukes are very good.

[Troxx]

Or if not using GCD to spam it and instead doing concussion like in the video 181 dps with a cast/hit every 11 seconds.

At 391.5 + 50 mana (2 concussions) twist spending 450 every 2 ticks so could sustain this on a 4K mana pool for 2 minutes or longer not factoring in mind buffs

[Troxx]

Scars of Sigil: 450 damage over 2 seconds = 225 dps.

Splitting hairs here as well but most mages I have known (to include myself) would assert that conjuration is the specialty to use. It affects pet summons along with our 57 nuke shock of steel.

Shock of steel without spec is 3 dmg per mana
Shock of steel is 3.43 dmg per mana with conjuration spec.
Scars of Sigil without spec is 2.57 dmg per mana
Scars of Sigil with evocation spec is 2.96 dmg per mana
Seeking flame without spec is 3.2 dmg per mana
Seeking flame with evo spec is 3.68 dmg per mana

Chain cast scars of Sigil = 225 dps
Chain cast shock of steel = 137 dps
Chain cast Seeking Flame = 146 dps

As for me I chose conjuration spec. A lot of what we do involves conjuration mana. Yes best mana efficiency (by 6.8% if using seeking vs shock) for nukes and highest burn (by a much wider margin) is evocation but mod rods and CoTH use conjuration. In raids you will be doing a ton of that. Summons also conjuration. If I had velks boots AND I knew I’d never be raiding (all the coths and mod rods), I’d be tempted to go evocation. But I don’t and I will probably raid again at some point. If I did raid my warrior is my main and my mage would be a coth or mod rod bot exclusively to use as needed.

I chose conjuration and shock of steel is my bread and butter for sustained dps. I do not load seeking flame but keep scars up for those situations where you don’t give a damn about mana and just need to burn hard. Scars is spell gem 1 to make use of GCD clicks. Shock of steel I keep elsewhere on the bar and don’t bother with GCD. Unless it’s really bad my standard burn is scars shock scars shock which comes out to 159ish spell cast dps without resists.

So yeah in a group environment where you get no resists, the mage can burn with scars 225dps + whatever the pet puts out so ballpark of 300 or a tad less. Trying to use rain spells when your pet counts against you and 25% baseline resist rate will be a giant mana drain that probably doesn’t live up to expectations.

Sustainably? 100-120 has always been my experience at 60 without a focus for my 60 water pet or nifty clicky velks boots.

If rains weren’t stupid the highest dps twist would be 1 cast manastorm (6 sec cast 12 sec recast) with SIX scars of Sigils between. With no resists that is 393.75 mage DD dps (not counting pet) but for a whopping 1477 mana per 12 seconds - 4725 damage in the relative blink of an eye (6k in 12 seconds with a decent water pet). But now you have to meditate for 4.5 minutes with c2 just to break even.

[Troxx]

So embarrassing to chain so many posts in a row but if rains were not broken, pets did not count as a mob in the wave and there were no innate/default 25% resist issues. I would totally go evocation.

Manastorm with 625x3 and evocation spec is 5.45 dmg per mana. Unless your group is killing faster than a Mob a minute you could cast once per fight. It takes 1.16 mins to med back the mana of a nuke that does 2025 damage … which coincidentally is actually better damage per mana than a wizard bane nuke on giants and dragons.

Iirc they didn’t fix rain nukes until PoP or maybe Luclin though so we’ll never see it here.

[Balimon]

With all due respect that’s kinda like asking what a warrior’s max dps is on p99 and then a 60 raid warrior with Gauldrek saying “maybe over 400 dps” is the highest because every attack could be a triple attack, always hit, and always hit for max damage.

It’s super unfortunate that rain spells on p99 are so broken. They have a built in 25% flat out chance of resistance and having a pet in range will take away additional possible hits.

I would not consider rains part of the mage dps equation.

Rain spells are fixed now, pets do not take away hits. Even if one wave resists the nuke is still as efficient as any other mage nuke, I think you should do some testing on rain spells before you make up your mind. And yes obviously a warrior with disc would put out huge dps. Is the OP asking for the highest possible? Or the highest possible sustained? Different questions.

[Troxx]

Rain spells are fixed now, pets do not take away hits.

Is this true? If so you might have made my day lol! Is it now just the 25% innate resist rate?

If you are right I will be a happy panda. I hadn’t seen any updates. This means manastorm would be 4.08 dmg per mana evocation spec factoring in a 25% resist. (Less with a tash or cheap malo)

My mind is always open to being changed!

Like no joke if you are correct I may respec now until such time that I decide to raid again. I went AFK for 2 years starting in early 2020 with pandemic because I’m a doc and had no time. If things changed in the interim that is stellar and changes how I will/would play my mage.

[Balimon]

Is this true? If so you might have made my day lol! Is it now just the 25% innate resist rate?

If you are right I will be a happy panda. I hadn’t seen any updates. This means manastorm would be 4.08 dmg per mana evocation spec factoring in a 25% resist. (Less with a tash or cheap malo)

My mind is always open to being changed!

Like no joke if you are correct I may respec now until such time that I decide to raid again. I went AFK for 2 years starting in early 2020 with pandemic because I’m a doc and had no time. If things changed in the interim that is stellar and changes how I will/would play my mage.

Awesome man, yeah go try it out! I like your post about sustained DPS, very accurate and close to how I play.

[Troxx]

I think I love you. I’d kiss you but I don’t want a sexual harassment lawsuit!

Sirroco it is moving forward as primary dps and sigils for burn with 59 nuke loaded just because. I think I could swing 110-130 dps now instead of 100-120! Even more impressive burns. Manastorm is a bit better dmg per mana but with the mana drain may be more aggro for marginal efficiency and I skipped getting it because rains were trash.

Now I gotta go to temple of rob to respec (at least until I raid again)

[Foxplay]

Doesn't really have anything to do with max dps, but in terms of consistent dps a Wizard with a Rend robe and Epic feels really nice. Unfourtinately once you get to this point you are pretty much done ever needing sustained or group dps anyway since you are probably just logging the wizard on for a raid pop anyway...

[Troxx]

Doesn't really have anything to do with max dps, but in terms of consistent dps a Wizard with a Rend robe and Epic feels really nice. Unfourtinately once you get to this point you are pretty much done ever needing sustained or group dps anyway since you are probably just logging the wizard on for a raid pop anyway...

56dps sustained without any mana use is respectable. 14 sec click time vs 17 on mage boots (which are less dps chain cast to start with). Is also nice. With this robe and the right tempo and group setup wizards do work well. Better than most scrub dps classes you will invite to a 51-60 group for sure knowing the wizard can also burn.

I wish such an item could be found outside of VP as easily as a mage could get their pets 51-60. It would make wizards viable.

By the time the wizard has it, however, they have no need for groups ☹️

What I have noticed in mediocre “high end groups” is that most “dps” hover between 45 and 70 dps at best, raid geared twinks notwithstanding.

A wizard with such a robe would outperform most xp group mouth breathers by a mile.

[Foxplay]

By the time the wizard has it, however, they have no need for groups ☹️


This is pretty much the wizard class in general though provided you are ok with being lonely and quad kiting. AFK gameplay (quad kite burn mana bar repeat) solo is typically better or almost as good as even optimal groups in terms of exp gains for leveling.

And yea unless your some kind of amazing raid twink you would almost never normally have a Rend robe 50-59 and when you have it grouping becomes even less optimal for you because you can literally kill almost anything that doesnt summon with just Root and robe click

[Balimon]

I think I love you. I’d kiss you but I don’t want a sexual harassment lawsuit!

Sirroco it is moving forward as primary dps and sigils for burn with 59 nuke loaded just because. I think I could swing 110-130 dps now instead of 100-120! Even more impressive burns. Manastorm is a bit better dmg per mana but with the mana drain may be more aggro for marginal efficiency and I skipped getting it because rains were trash.

Now I gotta go to temple of rob to respec (at least until I raid again)

I love it! I prefer Sirocco because the fire seems to land better, especially in Velious. But yeah Manastorm is technically better for sure. I'm curious what your parses would be with evocation spec. I took conjuration from the get go on Green and never changed it, knowing that I could use conj. nukes and it would effect pets/rods/coth etc.

[LordVictor]

Since there are a lot of MAG players in this thread, how is the late game MAG gameplay in p99?

I mean, in a progression server, as an necromancer, what I really hate is that at low levels, I can just order my pet to attack an mob at higher level than me and kill that mob without even casting DoTs. At lv 55+, your pets are almost worthless, only serves as an temporary distraction. Charmed undead in other hands, are amazing.

In p99, I played as a MAG till teen levels but ended deleting my char. And now am lv 30 necromancer in a p99 pause.

My fear is that by not having CC, charm ability and having mostly only fire spells, I would't be able to kill anything above greens in p99 as an MAG.

[PatChapp]

It's not until 55+ that mage pets kind of drop off vs good xp mobs. Up to that point feel like a superhero.
There's still good spots for mages to kill blue mobs all the way to 60.

[Toxigen]

Since there are a lot of MAG players in this thread, how is the late game MAG gameplay in p99?


Its crap, especially w/o epic. Since most cash camps require 3-4 players max, there just isn't any room for a mage unless you've got some friends that don't mind bringing you along. Mages bring basically nothing to the table in single group late game stuff.

On raids - your responsibilities are as follows:

- Cothing people to the raid

- Mod rods for clerics

- Quad DA trains in ToV (shiny brass idol, sky ring (recharge 1x on fly w/ void box), earring of frozen skull)

[Kich867]

Its crap, especially w/o epic. Since most cash camps require 3-4 players max, there just isn't any room for a mage unless you've got some friends that don't mind bringing you along. Mages bring basically nothing to the table in single group late game stuff.

On raids - your responsibilities are as follows:

- Cothing people to the raid

- Mod rods for clerics

- Quad DA trains in ToV (shiny brass idol, sky ring (recharge 1x on fly w/ void box), earring of frozen skull)

I mean, that's basically similar to everyone's job in raiding, it's not that exciting, but at the same time, this is also a pretty narrow view of raiding imo. On long fights, definitely, you need mod rods. A ton of targets though die so fast you aren't sitting there spamming mod rods, you're dps'ing.

Like, you're not wrong, but also there's a bunch of fights where you're just playing your mage like you normally would, so if you like playing a mage, play a mage.

[Solist]

Please guildremove the pelican mages who are dpsing.

[Balimon]

Since there are a lot of MAG players in this thread, how is the late game MAG gameplay in p99?

I mean, in a progression server, as an necromancer, what I really hate is that at low levels, I can just order my pet to attack an mob at higher level than me and kill that mob without even casting DoTs. At lv 55+, your pets are almost worthless, only serves as an temporary distraction. Charmed undead in other hands, are amazing.

In p99, I played as a MAG till teen levels but ended deleting my char. And now am lv 30 necromancer in a p99 pause.

My fear is that by not having CC, charm ability and having mostly only fire spells, I would't be able to kill anything above greens in p99 as an MAG.

I enjoy it a lot, my mage is useful on just about every fight. I don't get the mage hate on the forums, how is coth, rods and DA trains that different from CH chain, rez click, casting aego? People have strange ideas about skill and whats boring and what isn't. Playing a rogue on a raid is super boring IMO, backstab, move in and out of AoE, bump when a tank dies. Annnnywaays...

There's different parts of end game, just being 60 and running around killing stuff for cash or quests mages do just fine, even without epic. You don't need it, it's amazing, but seriously get a Air staff from sky and use the 59 air pet you'll thank me later. It's all you need for solo play, my epic pet mostly just allows me to kill faster/more efficiently. I was able to solo most of my Coldain ring stuff to 7, just had help on the Corbin escort. Can easily solo most of the shawl quest, faction in droga for profit, can do some interesting things in chardok especially with a cleric. I'm able to solo most of ToFS just need help with Tserrina, although I swear she is possible to solo, I just need to keep trying. You can fight blues at 60 no problem, people just aren't creative or lack the proper kit. Mage is allllll about kit, spells just don't scale like other classes do, so you need to pick up clickies to make up the difference. The difference between my mage and most people who say mages suck is my backpacks full of click gear, resist gear and potions. Go beyond the spell book!

Lower tier raiding mages are excellent, the pet brings 40-70 dps, your DS, mod rods, click sticks, rune swords and occasional nuke are all valuable. Hate/Fear/Kael/Kunark fights are all easy for any class, you can even nuke a lot here and bring some pretty good DPS with Scars of Sigil and Sirocco. Mages even get PBAOE which is great for CT/PoG clears.

Some fights like Dain or King Tormax mages aren't as useful for, but that doesn't mean you can't put out DPS and drop rods, sure you can swap to a rogue for those fights but so can pretty much everyone else who isn't a cleric, so that's a moot point IMO.

Mages really shine in NToV, this is where you absolutely 100% need mages who have gear and know how to play. Even if it's just one or two, that's fine, bots can replace some aspects of play like an initial coth up or DA train out. However you need someone who is ready to coth people in from the lobby literally constantly throughout a NToV clear, the more targets that are up, the more you need mages watching the lobby, pulling in pullers, people with refreshed SoW for kiting etc. Rods are ALWAYS needed and it's stupid not to have some people laying them down especially in 100+ person raids. Any bot can do this you say? Fine, any bot can be a cleric or a rogue, but will that cleric or rogue bot heal as long, or DPS as much? You want a mage that has hit points, resist gear, clickies, potions to stay alive. Having experience playing a class means something. Anyone can be a chain cleric and help out the raid, anyone can play a coth bot and help out the raid, but people who main those characters are going to be better at it, and more efficient for your force.

If you like playing mage, play it. If you want to play something else, play that. Enjoy the game, enjoy the journey!