2h vs. 1h proc rate

[khofuswiftclaw]

I remember a while back reading someone explain the proc rate updates that happened in the last 3-4 years.

The gist of it was: Average of 2 procs/min with max dex in the primary, and 1/min in secondary. 2handers average 3 procs/min since they take up both slots.

Even though I am 99.999999999% sure I saw a GM describe it in this way, I'm unable to find it in the patch notes and having trouble searching the many many years of posts on this topic. Me and many other players have been taking this as gospel for several years now.

Anyone have any information/links on 2h proc rates and whether they proc at a rate of 3/min with max dex? I remember it being explained in the context of the new patch somewhere but it might have been on Discord.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am not an expert on this by any means. If you look at the wiki page:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Weapon_Procs

You will see that slower weapons proc more due to how the calculation shakes out. Having a slow weapon without haste will increase your proc rates.

There isn't any specific difference in 1h weapons vs. 2h weapons in terms of proc rates other than 2h weapons on average have higher delays (i.e. it is a slower weapon).

[khofuswiftclaw]

I know about that page, but I’m referring to a specific comment from the dev/gm team about how the proc rate is different on 2H. I am 99.99999% sure that I saw this because I have been referencing it for years but I think it was explained in Discord somewhere and is likely deeply buried.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I know about that page, but I’m referring to a specific comment from the dev/gm team about how the proc rate is different on 2H. I am 99.99999% sure that I saw this because I have been referencing it for years but I think it was explained in Discord somewhere and is likely deeply buried.

He was probably just talking about what I said, which was 2H generally proc more often due to their slower speeds.

I would love to see the specific quote you are referring to. But even so, not all GMs/Devs are experts on the code (or specifically the combat code) as far as I am aware, so they could have been mistaken, even if they did say it.

[khofuswiftclaw]

IIRC it’s that the 2H wep occupies both the primary and offhand slots and so both proc chances are being considered in the 2H proc rate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

IIRC it’s that the 2H wep occupies both the primary and offhand slots and so both proc chances are being considered in the 2H proc rate.

Personally I have never heard of anything like that. I don't think it would make a difference. The game knows how to properly differentiate between 1H and 2H. That is why you don't see dual wield occur on a 2H weapon.

So even if they did the coding approach of assigning the weapon to both slots to prevent people from equipping an offhand item, they still coded it in a way where they know the duplicate isn't an actual item, it's just a placeholder.

[khofuswiftclaw]

I hear that you have a lot of opinions, but I’m asking for anyone with knowledge of why so many people have told me that 2H procs more (and my anecdotal experience confirms this).

I just know people have been telling me for years that 2H procs 3/min with max dex while 1h procs 2/min in mainhand and 1/min in offhand. It’s hard to trace the origins since it’s been so commonly accepted by some folks, I assume due to testing that 2H procs about 1.5x as often as a primary 1h and that offhand procs 50% as often as primary 1h.

[Jimjam]

Run the numbers your self if you don’t trust the words of others or the links they provide. It wouldn’t be difficult.

Please share your results.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I hear that you have a lot of opinions, but I’m asking for anyone with knowledge of why so many people have told me that 2H procs more (and my anecdotal experience confirms this).

I just know people have been telling me for years that 2H procs 3/min with max dex while 1h procs 2/min in mainhand and 1/min in offhand. It’s hard to trace the origins since it’s been so commonly accepted by some folks, I assume due to testing that 2H procs about 1.5x as often as a primary 1h and that offhand procs 50% as often as primary 1h.

You have been hearing a lot of opinions I am sure. But how you are rating which ones are more/less credible is a mystery. I am not sure why you think why these other people's opinions are more credible.

As JimJam said, you can run the numbers yourself. But remember that 2H will proc more naturally due to their slower speeds. You will want to test a 1H and 2H weapon with the same delay to rule out this possibility.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_o%27_Nine_Tails and https://wiki.project1999.com/Coldain_Velium_Great_Staff would be cheap weapons you could test with, and they proc at pretty low levels. I think the Great Staff procs at level 1, and the whip procs at 20. It is surprisingly difficult to find cheap 1h and 2h weapons with the same delay.

[Troxx]

2 handers proc 2x a minute at max dex.

Max dex and 2 proccing 1handers will net you 3 per minute (2 primary 1 secondary)

[khofuswiftclaw]

That is patently false - delay has no impact on proc rate over time.

You just have an increased chance of proc with high delay on the first swing. Regardless of delay, procs even out over time.

If there is a higher 2H proc rate, it has nothing to do with delay.

[khofuswiftclaw]

I’ll give it a test at some point as was suggested. My monk and bloodmaw are gonna have a little chat and I’m gonna show him my 2H primal and baton of flame and see where the numbers end up. Will report back.

In the meantime, please no more posts about how 2H procs 2/min with max dex. I know that’s what the wiki says. I’m saying people have told me it’s wrong and I’m trying to locate the justification, not be reminded what the wiki says �� this was conventional wisdom amongst a lot of people I have played with going back to 2018.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That is patently false - delay has no impact on proc rate over time.

You just have an increased chance of proc with high delay on the first swing. Regardless of delay, procs even out over time.

If there is a higher 2H proc rate, it has nothing to do with delay.

I’ll give it a test at some point as was suggested. My monk and bloodmaw are gonna have a little chat and I’m gonna show him my 2H primal and baton of flame and see where the numbers end up. Will report back.

In the meantime, please no more posts about how 2H procs 2/min with max dex. I know that’s what the wiki says. I’m saying people have told me it’s wrong and I’m trying to locate the justification, not be reminded what the wiki says �� this was conventional wisdom amongst a lot of people I have played with going back to 2018.

I would advise using two weapons with the same delay to rule out the possibility. The less variables there are the easier it is to determine if there is some additional modifier that helps 2H more than 1H.

Also, I misspoke. What I meant to say was that a slower weapon has a higher chance to proc, even though it evens out to the average in the end. So that may skew your results if you aren't careful. Just because the average is X per minute doesn't mean you will always get this. Sometimes you proc a bit more, sometimes you proc a bit less. Depending on how much data you gather, it could affect your results if you got lucky (or unlucky).

[Troxx]

Slower weapons have a higher chance to proc per swing but over time they have the same exact proc rate.

In the meantime, please no more posts about how 2H procs 2/min with max dex. I know that’s what the wiki says. I’m saying people have told me it’s wrong and I’m trying to locate the justification, not be reminded what the wiki says �� this was conventional wisdom amongst a lot of people I have played with going back to 2018.

Oh stuff a sock in it. It is 2 procs per minute main hand with max dex whether it is a one handed or a two handed. The wiki is not wrong.

You have your answer. It has been tested exhaustively.

For the record; I tank on my warrior with a 2 hander all the live long day with Dain Axe. I now get 2 procs per minute vs the 3 procs per minute I would get duel wielding.

PS: are you a flat earther or otherwise prone to believing conspiracy theories?

[Vivitron]

It has been tested exhaustively.

Not one link

[khofuswiftclaw]

ROFL

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

[khofuswiftclaw]

Also, why in the world are you tanking with Dain axe if it’s so inferior to 1hers by your own admission?! That’s the real scandal here.

[Philistine]

Also, why in the world are you tanking with Dain axe if it’s so inferior to 1hers by your own admission?! That’s the real scandal here.


I believe the proc rate is inferior but the white damage is super good and the proc itself is good too. I hear it's a great tank weapon!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Also, why in the world are you tanking with Dain axe if it’s so inferior to 1hers by your own admission?! That’s the real scandal here.

Dain Axe has a great agro proc because it has a stun component.

[khofuswiftclaw]

I have the dain axe on my warrior - and even with the stuns the proc is inferior Aggro wise to almost every VP wep and many others if the assumption is that the axe only procs 2x/min.

Almost everything in VP procs a stun with a bigger DD component. The white damage is OK but it’s not gonna overcome the difference in proc rate assuming 2x/min is true.

I do use it for tanking sometimes but 2H are terrible at getting initial Aggro.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have the dain axe on my warrior - and even with the stuns the proc is inferior Aggro wise to almost every VP wep and many others if the assumption is that the axe only procs 2x/min.

Almost everything in VP procs a stun with a bigger DD component. The white damage is OK but it’s not gonna overcome the difference in proc rate assuming 2x/min is true.

I do use it for tanking sometimes but 2H are terrible at getting initial Aggro.

The benefit to 2H weapons when tanking is you take less ripostes due to hitting less. So it's a great 2H agro weapon for when ripostes are hitting you real hard.

[Philistine]

I have the dain axe on my warrior - and even with the stuns the proc is inferior Aggro wise to almost every VP wep and many others if the assumption is that the axe only procs 2x/min.

Almost everything in VP procs a stun with a bigger DD component. The white damage is OK but it’s not gonna overcome the difference in proc rate assuming 2x/min is true.

I do use it for tanking sometimes but 2H are terrible at getting initial Aggro.

I think that's part of the fun of this game! 20+ years in there are still things to figure out. I feel like your idea to parse and decide for yourself is a good one.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Did a small sample size of attacking for 20 minutes with a 1H weapon and 20 minutes with a 2H weapon.

I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_o%27_Nine_Tails and https://wiki.project1999.com/Velium_Great_Staff .

Both are 9/36 weapons, so we don't need to jump to any conclusions about damage, delay, or ratio affecting proc rates.

My weapon skills were also the same at 220.

My DEX was 150.

I had 0% haste.

I got 36 procs on the 2H weapon.

I got 30 procs on the 1H weapon.

It is a small sample size to be sure, but I am not seeing any huge difference between the two. The 6 difference could easily be chalked up to RNG.

[Troxx]

Also, why in the world are you tanking with Dain axe if it’s so inferior to 1hers by your own admission?! That’s the real scandal here.

It’s not inferior. You get one less proc per minute but massive gains in white damage threat. It is one of the strongest threat weapon setups in the game.

[Troxx]

Did a small sample size of attacking for 20 minutes with a 1H weapon and 20 minutes with a 2H weapon.

I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_o%27_Nine_Tails and https://wiki.project1999.com/Velium_Great_Staff .

Both are 9/36 weapons, so we don't need to jump to any conclusions about damage, delay, or ratio affecting proc rates.

My weapon skills were also the same at 220.

My DEX was 150.

I had 0% haste.


I got 36 procs on the 2H weapon.

I got 30 procs on the 1H weapon.

It is a small sample size to be sure, but I am not seeing any huge difference between the two. The 6 difference could easily be chalked up to RNG.


Yeah you’ll need a much larger sample size.

What you’ll find with a sufficiently large sample size is that proc rate is the same.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah you’ll need a much larger sample size.

What you’ll find with a sufficiently large sample size is that proc rate is the same.

I understand that:) Just showing some initial data to show there isn't some wild discrepancy even at lower data sizes. It isn't like 2H has double the proc chance or anything.

[cd288]

I have the dain axe on my warrior - and even with the stuns the proc is inferior Aggro wise to almost every VP wep and many others if the assumption is that the axe only procs 2x/min.

Almost everything in VP procs a stun with a bigger DD component. The white damage is OK but it’s not gonna overcome the difference in proc rate assuming 2x/min is true.

I do use it for tanking sometimes but 2H are terrible at getting initial Aggro.

I….am not sure you’ve played well on your warrior that much….

[magnetaress]

That is patently false - delay has no impact on proc rate over time.

You just have an increased chance of proc with high delay on the first swing. Regardless of delay, procs even out over time.

If there is a higher 2H proc rate, it has nothing to do with delay.

What if you constantly turn auto attack on and off. Aka joust.

[Troxx]

I….am not sure you’ve played well on your warrior that much….

I’m not sure he has either to be honest. After the 400 hate cap on procs (still 500 on red epic), it’s now 400 hate + whatever extra 1:1 hate generated by DD or DoT. This put a massive damper on the threat generated by weapons like infestation, WESS and the VP weapons. Don’t get me wrong, VP weapons are still very good at threat but they are nothing even remotely close to what they used to be.

So when you consider a weapon like

https://wiki.project1999.com/Frostreaver

Which has a 525 hate proc (400+125dd) and a 42/43 ratio AND ALSO consider that for 2hand mechanics:
-You’re level 60 so can triple attack main hand
-Dmg bonus for 2 handers was ramped up a few years back
-fewer ripostes are cool
-actually doing very respectable damage while also tanking is exceptionally cool

It’s actually a very good warrior weapon. I’ve MT’d raids on it with no problems. It’s a weird situation though. Once a proc lands I’m not losing aggro. On the one hand you have 50% fewer procs so it can take that much longer to land the first… but on the other hand I’ve been in plenty of groups where the RNG F’d me and even dual wield I wouldn’t get any procs for a fight or 2 in a row. In those circumstances the Frostreaver pushes out significantly more melee aggro meaning I can just truck along without a proc decently enough.

But yeah…
1) no weapon in this game has a proc mod.
2) No, there isn’t some magic hidden process that hasn’t been on p99 for over a decade that lets 2 handers proc more “because it uses both your hands” (lol).
3) OP is apparently very gullible
4) OP as a warrior is lol … just goes to show it doesn’t take phenomenal intelligence or talent to acquire loot on p99

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Frostreaver usually isn't worth much DKP, so it is low hanging fruit. At least last time I checked.

[Troxx]

Frostreaver usually isn't worth much DKP, so it is low hanging fruit. At least last time I checked.

Yep I picked one up while waiting on green scales for epic. I thought it’d be decent and it was cheap so why not. Turned out to be obviously superior to what I was already using and considerably more damage. I was still saving for green scales when COVID hit.

The young doctor started to having to spend all waking hours in the hospital, life got busy, and came back to find my guild dissolved his dkp gone 😝 .

It’s ok though, I have found I rather enjoy the casual play for now and the tool I’ve got gets the job done quite nicely.

[Arvan]

2h epic is good for tanking vs or dracoliche to cut down on ripostes. I usually just use a totem click and then red blade/koi trident for aggro.