Crucify PvP Server

[Castle2.0]

It came. Then it went. Will it come back?

[EatitNerd]

Huh? Drugs

[Castle2.0]

Twas a good custom PvP server. But it didn't stick around. Those who played, know.

Anyone? Bueller?

[Castle2.0]

Here it is... entombed in the past... frozen in history...

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29512

[Castle2.0]

More digging.. The Crucify PvP Dev jumped onboard with Secrets on the failed Qeynos vs Freeport PvP server.. which died because Secrets screwed up the code/database, had no backup, then he deleted everything..

See here: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32404

The guy said it killed his desire to do anything EQ related.

So no more Crucify PvP server or FP v Qeynos. Thanks @Secrets

[Rust1d?]

Crucify was a great pvp server. Get in, get your gear, and pvp. Literally can hop in for like 30 min and have a great time. Wish Vile brought it back. I would literally host the thing if there was a backup.

[EatitNerd]

Secrets is a detriment to any project he touches, this has been a known thing in the community for a long time.

[Gustoo]

12 years ago dudes.

Literally this happened longer ago than 1999 happened when p99 started up.

Can p99 staff please start a new pvp server?

Thanks

[Tassador]

Actually heard it was coming back but was scheduled to be released the same time as red 2.0 and they figured the pop couldn’t handle two fresh servers so both ideas have been scuttled. Time travel remains the only valid pvp server atm.

[Rust1d?]

I do not see why a Crucify server could not co-exist with any other PvP. It is completely different and you do not have to poop sock your way for 100+ hours grinding the same shit over and over. Plus, you do not have to travel from zone to zone looking for pvp, it is always right in front of you

[EatitNerd]

I do not see why a Crucify server could not co-exist with any other PvP. It is completely different and you do not have to poop sock your way for 100+ hours grinding the same shit over and over. Plus, you do not have to travel from zone to zone looking for pvp, it is always right in front of you

Population would be less than 10 a week after launch due to the reasons you mentioned.

[Knuckle]

I could get down for some crushbone only diablo style loot pvp server for that counterstrike feel, someone stand it up!

[Gustoo]

Yeah a fixed level fixed build per class pvp system would be fun with some kinda rewards.

Npcs you kill and clear for loot while fending off pvp enemies.

Fixed set of no drop gear and all your upgrade gear from NpCs is droppable lootable

[Vile]

More digging.. The Crucify PvP Dev jumped onboard with Secrets on the failed Qeynos vs Freeport PvP server.. which died because Secrets screwed up the code/database, had no backup, then he deleted everything..

See here: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32404

The guy said it killed his desire to do anything EQ related.

So no more Crucify PvP server or FP v Qeynos. Thanks @Secrets


Lol, actually Naez hacked that shit and I lost Crucify...

A new Crucify could be built in a couple of hours.

My only gripe with Crucify was the PvP wasn't too classic and the spells available were not classic either as I have no idea how to code a restricted spell file. It was awesome to hop on grind some mobs for quick loot and fast-paced PvP with no plugging.

Surefall Glade was the hub and you'd port into either Crushbone or Seb -- there may have been a third but I forget. Each zone had no way out... casters could gate back to SFG and all melee had a 30 second click gate item.

I had some basic quests in each zone that would unlock the next.. all in all it was super simple.


QvF v1 was really fucking awesome -- only lost some time on v2 as Secrets did most of the dev work there...

I actually thought v1 of QvF was better than Crucify.

[Nibbles]

Lol, actually Naez hacked that shit and I lost Crucify...

A new Crucify could be built in a couple of hours.

My only gripe with Crucify was the PvP wasn't too classic and the spells available were not classic either as I have no idea how to code a restricted spell file. It was awesome to hop on grind some mobs for quick loot and fast-paced PvP with no plugging.

Surefall Glade was the hub and you'd port into either Crushbone or Seb -- there may have been a third but I forget. Each zone had no way out... casters could gate back to SFG and all melee had a 30 second click gate item.

I had some basic quests in each zone that would unlock the next.. all in all it was super simple.


QvF v1 was really fucking awesome -- only lost some time on v2 as Secrets did most of the dev work there...

I actually thought v1 of QvF was better than Crucify.

It was Crush then Karnors (I never made it past Karnors) But I am sure you would have 100+ playing if you opened and posted about it.

Would play on Crucify or QvF

[Arvan]

12 years ago dudes.

Literally this happened longer ago than 1999 happened when p99 started up.

Can p99 staff please start a new pvp server?

Thanks

There already is a red and no one plays it why waste time and money making another

[Gustoo]

Reset switch. People play to progress. Eq pvp with this rule set has little interest for anyone including pvp players when it terminates at velious a cockblock all/all zero weight +10 to all stats items end game. It’s over and we’re ready for next play through, preferably with a classic ruleset from the get go so people don’t quit in the hundreds

[Nibbles]

The problem with a classic ruleset is that people realize they cannot compete with the ones who poopsock their way to 50 and just shit on everyone else. This is not 1999 anymore so the people who want the true classic experience are only a handful. People work, have families etc. Needs to have level locked progression to prevent poopsocking.

This is why Red was losing 50 people a week and eventually lost all of its players.

[Gustoo]

Tiered level cap

No legacy items or modified and permanent inclusion

[azxten]

The problem with a classic ruleset is that people realize they cannot compete with the ones who poopsock their way to 50 and just shit on everyone else. This is not 1999 anymore so the people who want the true classic experience are only a handful. People work, have families etc. Needs to have level locked progression to prevent poopsocking.

This is why Red was losing 50 people a week and eventually lost all of its players.

I love EQ PvP and I quit R99 because it devolved to the point that one guild dominated the server. I mean I was even there as a founding member and I quit like the next day because I knew the competition was over.

I'm working on a server concept that allows for team balancing. If too many no life aggressive nerds end up in one place at the same time they need to be dealt with before they kill the community. This is the only thing that will sustain a population.

[Tradesonred]

The problem with a classic ruleset is that people realize they cannot compete with the ones who poopsock their way to 50 and just shit on everyone else. This is not 1999 anymore so the people who want the true classic experience are only a handful. People work, have families etc. Needs to have level locked progression to prevent poopsocking.

This is why Red was losing 50 people a week and eventually lost all of its players.

It doesnt matter, really. Locked progression would help but its not why 1.0 failed. It had 600 at launch and predictably lost most of his pop after about a year under the watch of devs/staff who thought nothing was amiss with players posting they were "griefing people off the server" with xp loss. It literally had single digit pop at nite at the peak of population bleed. They removed xp loss in pvp, part of the pop came back and it looked like the server might recuperate from its crippled state. Then 2 months later or something, Sirken comes in and either out of his own initiative or doing devs' bidding, finished the server off by nerfing PVE xp on a server with an already fragile pop.

Server never had a chance. They can blame it on the toxic pop all they want. Its them who gave griefers a sharp knife telling them to act responsibly with it like it wasnt predictable what outcome would come out of this.

Theres 2 things that matter with a server reboot: Getting an initial pop and no xp loss in pvp or some fucking ill-thought, wrote-it-on-a-napkin experimental ruleset that youre not babysitting to see if it works during the first weeks.

[Gustoo]

The weirdest fucking thing was that there was beta server for months and like one change was made as a result of beta testing and the server went immediately live. I was playing beta and paused waiting for it to change to test further developments, I come back and found the server had gone live without any further testing ????

I was baffled.

The only thing I know that resulted from test server is they nerfed the smuggling quest in rivervale because I 12 boxed it to get plat real quick to test trade skills without leveling up.

Just so you know devs that quest can’t be 12 boxed on live since that’s not allowed, so there was no reason to nerf the hyper lucrative 1pp gains

[magnetaress]

ppl can just 12 box goblin camps anywhere and make it not even look like they are boxing ungrouped and in diff zones there's no reason at all to nerf quests its just dumb-hecker-y

[Stasis01]

big fucking raging hard dick exploding with cum all over your face

[Nibbles]

It doesnt matter, really. Locked progression would help but its not why 1.0 failed. It had 600 at launch and predictably lost most of his pop after about a year under the watch of devs/staff who thought nothing was amiss with players posting they were "griefing people off the server" with xp loss. It literally had single digit pop at nite at the peak of population bleed. They removed xp loss in pvp, part of the pop came back and it looked like the server might recuperate from its crippled state. Then 2 months later or something, Sirken comes in and either out of his own initiative or doing devs' bidding, finished the server off by nerfing PVE xp on a server with an already fragile pop.

Server never had a chance. They can blame it on the toxic pop all they want. Its them who gave griefers a sharp knife telling them to act responsibly with it like it wasnt predictable what outcome would come out of this.

Theres 2 things that matter with a server reboot: Getting an initial pop and no xp loss in pvp or some fucking ill-thought, wrote-it-on-a-napkin experimental ruleset that youre not babysitting to see if it works during the first weeks.

Well it was the same with Dentists on K&B etc. They used all sorts of hacks, paid their way to have shit coded for them specifically and people just left because there was no way to compete.

[Secrets]

More digging.. The Crucify PvP Dev jumped onboard with Secrets on the failed Qeynos vs Freeport PvP server.. which died because Secrets screwed up the code/database, had no backup, then he deleted everything..

See here: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32404

The guy said it killed his desire to do anything EQ related.

So no more Crucify PvP server or FP v Qeynos. Thanks @Secrets

QvF worked because Vile actually knew what he was doing for balance and I was able to implement his ideas.

Vile was a goddamn chad and one of the best designers I've ever met in Emu outside of Ailia

You started at 35 (a great idea) and getting to max level quickly to PvP was a solid idea.
I'd be concerned there would be a lack of content if we were to do that idea again. Y'all are too content starved for QvF to work again.

A PvP server that respected peoples' time, did not have corpse runs, fundamentally followed era-appropriate rules with major custom changes and limited the ability to zerg and bind rush folks would be immensely popular.

I think following the Warhammer Online formula for a server would be similar to QvF, and Warhammer Online was actually the inspiration for QvF, so maybe a RvR game set in EQ's engine would be appealing to the pvp community.

I pretty much have TAKP's content, quests, and mechanics ported to RoF2. Setting up a server that has PvP, 1box, a proper anticheat / anti-plug, some rule tweaks (ie; curbing buff bots by dispelling buffs when you uncleanly log out or are offline for a short period of time, temp unflagging / gating to origin point stabled characters for a period of time once logged out for too long, curbing some egregious broken spells in pvp like selo's, adding in CC / immunity timers that display on peoples' buffs, etc), and some QOL like having maps, buff timers, ability to see spells, removal of instant click items that detriment pvp (removal of pumice stones, separate 'cure magic' from 'dispel magic') and add a beneficial target window separate to a detrimental target window like Vanguard had.

I'd be interested in just making that, launching it fully functioning and seeing how it goes. Police stuff silently in the background for cheating and just 0 GM interaction outside of that. I ain't gonna get a fucking Discord if I launch something, we all know how that ends and it's 500 @everyones.

If you see something suddenly appearing on the list and it's by me, you'll fucking play it at the end of the day if it's good. That's how game design should be. People play good games, they don't give a fuck who runs it as long as it's:
1) Fun
2) Available
3) Fits their interests

At the end of the day, I don't need to talk to people directly, they just need some place to play that isn't going to root NTOV dragons and make dumb decisions constantly.

Might be time to dust off the ol' anticheat and collect more cuck porn window titles from Fatbella someday.

[azxten]

QvF worked because Vile actually knew what he was doing for balance and I was able to implement his ideas.

Vile was a goddamn chad and one of the best designers I've ever met in Emu outside of Ailia

You started at 35 (a great idea) and getting to max level quickly to PvP was a solid idea.
I'd be concerned there would be a lack of content if we were to do that idea again. Y'all are too content starved for QvF to work again.

A PvP server that respected peoples' time, did not have corpse runs, fundamentally followed era-appropriate rules with major custom changes and limited the ability to zerg and bind rush folks would be immensely popular.

I think following the Warhammer Online formula for a server would be similar to QvF, and Warhammer Online was actually the inspiration for QvF, so maybe a RvR game set in EQ's engine would be appealing to the pvp community.

I pretty much have TAKP's content, quests, and mechanics ported to RoF2. Setting up a server that has PvP, 1box, a proper anticheat / anti-plug, some rule tweaks (ie; curbing buff bots by dispelling buffs when you uncleanly log out or are offline for a short period of time, temp unflagging / gating to origin point stabled characters for a period of time once logged out for too long, curbing some egregious broken spells in pvp like selo's, adding in CC / immunity timers that display on peoples' buffs, etc), and some QOL like having maps, buff timers, ability to see spells, removal of instant click items that detriment pvp (removal of pumice stones, separate 'cure magic' from 'dispel magic') and add a beneficial target window separate to a detrimental target window like Vanguard had.

I'd be interested in just making that, launching it fully functioning and seeing how it goes. Police stuff silently in the background for cheating and just 0 GM interaction outside of that. I ain't gonna get a fucking Discord if I launch something, we all know how that ends and it's 500 @everyones.

If you see something suddenly appearing on the list and it's by me, you'll fucking play it at the end of the day if it's good. That's how game design should be. People play good games, they don't give a fuck who runs it as long as it's:
1) Fun
2) Available
3) Fits their interests

At the end of the day, I don't need to talk to people directly, they just need some place to play that isn't going to root NTOV dragons and make dumb decisions constantly.

Might be time to dust off the ol' anticheat and collect more cuck porn window titles from Fatbella someday.

Thanks for the ideas and I generally agree with you. The limited feedback to implementing balance has been people crying about it. I think players need a more gradual introduction to balance mechanics that can increase over time. Too many up front just gets you the "custom server bullshit" label.

How bad is the cheating? Does it really need a client side mechanic? I know all about what is possible to do but I thought maybe people could not be so fucking retarded to come cheat on a tiny ass PvP emu server but I guess that's the place to do it.

[Secrets]

How bad is the cheating? Does it really need a client side mechanic? I know all about what is possible to do but I thought maybe people could not be so fucking retarded to come cheat on a tiny ass PvP emu server but I guess that's the place to do it.

The best anticheat is one that deters, detects, and prevents cheating.

That could include the clientside but isn't limited to just one form. If you limit yourself to just one detection style, you're basically giving access to your game's internals for free to cheaters.

This goes for industry and hobbies. They aren't exclusive just because one isn't 'official' compared the other.
The same techniques apply to the emu sphere.

https://technology.riotgames.com/news/riots-approach-anti-cheat

[Tradesonred]

I love EQ PvP and I quit R99 because it devolved to the point that one guild dominated the server. I mean I was even there as a founding member and I quit like the next day because I knew the competition was over.

I'm working on a server concept that allows for team balancing. If too many no life aggressive nerds end up in one place at the same time they need to be dealt with before they kill the community. This is the only thing that will sustain a population.

People will aggregate, its almost impossible to dodge. What you can do is limit the harm this does to a minimum. For example, on red early on the biggest problem by far was that Nihilum could sit in fear forever, farm for gear that will make them even harder to drive out because no one wanted to eat xp death. What should have happened is guerilla outfits going in and making them work for it, sneaking in kills for a while after wipes, etc... Im quite sure this is the main reason why the server failed. To use your expression, it did not respect players' time. Off the top of my head the solutions dont come up (besides not doing something bad like xp loss in pvp) but im sure there are some and its important to collectively think about them imo and have a post where the pitfalls can be laid out and solutions proposed.

Also, if the server is a huge time investment like red, you develop trust issues with bad management. Why would i waste my time putting in time on a character on a 1X xp server where devs watch the pop go from 600 to 9 at nite without reacting when the fix is easy to implement and clear, nerf xp on a fragile pop server? They clearly dont give a shit about their players, that was a recurring thought in my head from classic to kunark. They give a shit about putting a server up, thanks for that, but it feels like it doesnt go beyond that. It almost feels like something Rogean did for his portfolio, something to show off in RL for whatever IT job hes jonesing for and nothing beyond that. Im sure i wasnt the only player who left during Kunark who juggled and weighted these questions in their heads before deciding to quit for good. Its quite a road to 60 and when you see devs pull moves like the xp nerf or leave the server to rot through their inaction that predictably will lead to a dead server when you do get to 60, i got better things to do with my time.

Its the same exact situation 10 years later, instead of just saying "well never do red 2.0, this is all there will be" as a lifebuoy for the existing population (as it will lead people on the fence to decide to play as there will never be anything else, helping the population grow a little) or "its still coming we just dont know when" so that 1.0 players can make an informed decision if they want to invest time or wait for a new server, people are left to rot. Its a 5 minute thing to do, a respect-your-players-time gesture toward the population thats still playing, but they are not going to do it. They still dont give a shit about their playerbase beyond heres a server, take it or leave it.

With a casual-friendly, boosted xp server, this lack of communication, apprehension of terrible decisions down the line is less of an issue. Like you said, if its fun people will play it. The ruleset either works for you or doesnt and its not a big deal if the plug is pulled on the server out of the blue, which is basically the only advantage i can think of from p99 vs less stable servers. If its not a big time investment, then if something happens you dont like with the ruleset, you can just quit.

[Nibbles]

When I played on Image and Devnoob's servers, it would rock for the first month and then the population just died off because it ended up being one, maybe two guild just shitting all over everyone. They tried Good vs Evil, Teams, city wars etc but in the end, they all fizzled out to about 50 players after a few months.

Crucify worked because you had the fun of PvP without the timesink, kinda like arena and felt more like a FPS then EQ. Let's face it, none of these servers have real staying power aside from blue and green where you know that 5 years down the road you can still come play. so for that PvP fix, it would make sense to have something like Crucify

[Nibbles]

People will aggregate, its almost impossible to dodge. What you can do is limit the harm this does to a minimum. For example, on red early on the biggest problem by far was that Nihilum could sit in fear forever, farm for gear that will make them even harder to drive out because no one wanted to eat xp death. What should have happened is guerilla outfits going in and making them work for it, sneaking in kills for a while after wipes, etc... Im quite sure this is the main reason why the server failed. To use your expression, it did not respect players' time. Off the top of my head the solutions dont come up (besides not doing something bad like xp loss in pvp) but im sure there are some and its important to collectively think about them imo and have a post where the pitfalls can be laid out and solutions proposed.

Also, if the server is a huge time investment like red, you develop trust issues with bad management. Why would i waste my time putting in time on a character on a 1X xp server where devs watch the pop go from 600 to 9 at nite without reacting when the fix is easy to implement and clear, nerf xp on a fragile pop server? They clearly dont give a shit about their players, that was a recurring thought in my head from classic to kunark. They give a shit about putting a server up, thanks for that, but it feels like it doesnt go beyond that. It almost feels like something Rogean did for his portfolio, something to show off in RL for whatever IT job hes jonesing for and nothing beyond that. Im sure i wasnt the only player who left during Kunark who juggled and weighted these questions in their heads before deciding to quit for good. Its quite a road to 60 and when you see devs pull moves like the xp nerf or leave the server to rot through their inaction that predictably will lead to a dead server when you do get to 60, i got better things to do with my time.

Its the same exact situation 10 years later, instead of just saying "well never do red 2.0, this is all there will be" as a lifebuoy for the existing population (as it will lead people on the fence to decide to play as there will never be anything else, helping the population grow a little) or "its still coming we just dont know when" so that 1.0 players can make an informed decision if they want to invest time or wait for a new server, people are left to rot. Its a 5 minute thing to do, a respect-your-players-time gesture toward the population thats still playing, but they are not going to do it. They still dont give a shit about their playerbase beyond heres a server, take it or leave it.

With a casual-friendly, boosted xp server, this lack of communication, apprehension of terrible decisions down the line is less of an issue. Like you said, if its fun people will play it. The ruleset either works for you or doesnt and its not a big deal if the plug is pulled on the server out of the blue, which is basically the only advantage i can think of from p99 vs less stable servers. If its not a big time investment, then if something happens you dont like with the ruleset, you can just quit.

Any PvP server needs to have the experience boosted. Nobody wants to put 1,000+ hours into leveling a character on a pvp server

[Gustoo]

I disagree.

Any short term server needs to have exp boosted because no one wants to put the time in to level a toon that will stop existing in two months.

However a real classic eq pvp server can have the same exp setup as a normal server. Preferably with level caps progressing through content so people don’t just rush the levels to get the best loot fastest.

But ya this server seems like leveling up won’t be too onerous.

[Jibartik]

yeah super fast EXP gains, with BIG losses for death might be enough to balance it out too.

[Records]

COH PVP was the best PVP server

[Vile]

QvF worked because Vile actually knew what he was doing for balance and I was able to implement his ideas.

Vile was a goddamn chad and one of the best designers I've ever met in Emu outside of Ailia

You started at 35 (a great idea) and getting to max level quickly to PvP was a solid idea.
I'd be concerned there would be a lack of content if we were to do that idea again. Y'all are too content starved for QvF to work again.

A PvP server that respected peoples' time, did not have corpse runs, fundamentally followed era-appropriate rules with major custom changes, and limited the ability to zerg and bind rush folks would be immensely popular.


<3

I'd be down to collaborate again, anytime! Hit me up, seriously -- hope all is well.

RE: QvF -- content-wise, I had plans! You could easily make quest lines and epic fights within the "world" of the 4-6 zones... then you could release new "satellite areas" and rinse and repeat.

A big thing I pushed for even going back to OG VZTZ is that plugging needs to be nixed. If a character plugs, they should be popped on the other side LD and auto-fight back.

[Tradesonred]

yeah super fast EXP gains, with BIG losses for death might be enough to balance it out too.

I think theres space for both types of servers if we had a population for them. Although at this point i simply do not give a fuck about a server here, even if they come up with one theyve sort of squeezed every ml of faith i have in them doing things right.

A 1x server, but with the right setup. The big variable is if people show up. Again, i doubt at this point many people would show up beyond people who dont have a grasp of the track record of things here.

Or a boosted xp server, probably more chances of being populated at this point.

But to me i think its time to give up on the dreams of recreating Rallos or any type of populated server, the pop just isnt there barring things like a popular streamer dropping hundreds of people here like a miracle (it happened on a DAOC server).

Basically at this point i think the only viable types of servers is the ones (forgot his name) is fucking with, reducing the size of the world to make smaller populations viable for EQ. This has the added advantage of devs trying things out, and have seasonal, fun content refined over time to a polished, low pop custom experience.

[magnetaress]

#1 reason I don't log in is I don't have 8+ hours a day plus.

I have lake Rathe manmorized. I go there in my own head whenever I want.

[Castle2.0]

Vile + Secrets, hope you guys make some magic happen.

It's been a long time.

[Cwall 146.0]

A big thing I pushed for even going back to OG VZTZ is that plugging needs to be nixed. If a character plugs, they should be popped on the other side LD and auto-fight back.

rise of zek managed to do this a majority of the time that people try to plug, and it has made pvp so much better

[magnetaress]

imo if u ld in a zone line u go to a city bind with a 30 min debuff

[Knuckle]

<3

I'd be down to collaborate again, anytime! Hit me up, seriously -- hope all is well.

RE: QvF -- content-wise, I had plans! You could easily make quest lines and epic fights within the "world" of the 4-6 zones... then you could release new "satellite areas" and rinse and repeat.

A big thing I pushed for even going back to OG VZTZ is that plugging needs to be nixed. If a character plugs, they should be popped on the other side LD and auto-fight back.

Come get protection of the glades from big estrang on green. time to be a greenbee.

[Vile]

Come get protection of the glades from big estrang on green. time to be a greenbee.

What up brewwww