Shaman spell cost

[Bobbymck69]

How do shaman afford to buy their level 55+ spells? Must i pimp myself out? Lol

[Jimjam]

Group in Seb, duo/trio in Overthere, kill minor dragons/guardian wurms.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Killing guards is another good method to gain steady plat if you don't have another money maker. Generally speaking most Fine Steel guard spots net you roughly 300pp an hour. If you kill guards for 1 hour a day, in 14 weeks you will have 30k. That will get you all of your 55-60 spells minus Torpor and Bane of Nife.

Avoid buying Bane of Nife until you have everything else. Bane of Nife can be useful in certain situations, but it is much less reliable than Pox, due to mobs resisting poison more often than disease.

If you are on Green where spells cost a lot more, you will probably need to do some item camps to generate money faster. I would advise that you get to 60, and kill guards to get enough money for Malo. Malo is your top priority spell. At level 60 when you have Malo and Tigirs Insects, you are still fairly useful, even without Torpor. You could probably get in to Ixiblat Fer groups as the primary slower, for chances at Cloak of Flames. I got in to Fungi Tunic groups when I didn't have Torpor on Blue before Green was launched, but I am not sure if that is still possible.

[eisley]

Killing Fine Steel guards at 60 is not very good use of time. Anyone, any class, can farm Droga and make a LOT more from skins and salts and vendor junk.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Killing Fine Steel guards at 60 is not very good use of time. Anyone, any class, can farm Droga and make a LOT more from skins and salts and vendor junk.

I'd be curious if someone parsed how much PP per hour they got in Droga as a pre-Torpor Shaman. I've spent a decent amount of time in Droga on my Torpor Shaman when I was farming salts/skins, and unfortunately Shamans are not great at killing in Droga. Shamans in general just aren't very good at clearing lots of greens. And in Droga the goblin level is high enough to where they deal decent damage and have a decent amount of HP.

My level 60 Torpor Shaman who has Epic and JBB doesn't clear Droga that fast, so I would imagine a level 55 Shaman without clickies is going to have a harder time.

I like guards on a Shaman because they drop FS weapons more consistently, and Shamans are best at dealing with 1-2 mobs at a time. However, I mostly killed Misty Thicket Guards, back when they spawned every 6 minutes. You would make more like 500-600pp an hour there if you had the wall to yourself.

[loramin]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Treasure_Hunting_Guide

[Stonewallx39]

How do shaman afford to buy their level 55+ spells? Must i pimp myself out? Lol

Join DKP guild, sell skyshrine MQs. Kinda sleazy (at least it feels bad to those that need the item) but it is what it is…

[Stroboo]

Plenty of 60 sham do not have their 60 spells at first. takes time to make money, or luck. If you have reliable friends take them to Seb, tons of money to be made there, sure still take a while but way better then almost anything in KC (minus Tstaff lighting strike).

Most of the really high end droppable still come from Raid mobs/events...

but even making 2k a night, which is a lot for a 55sham it is gonna take decent amount of time to afford the high end spells, and your epic, which is expensive too. best not to think about it and grind on...takes forever to get from 55 to 60 anyway :)

[greenspectre]

When I hit 60 I was still missing Pox, Malo, and of course Torpor. I got lucky with Bane on a Trakanon kill. Pox came eventually at Royals, Malo in VP, and I had to buy Torpor. Highly recommend Seb Crypt for that. Even doing groups, not solo, I still pulled in a few 8-12k drops that helped me save up.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Avoid buying Bane of Nife until you have everything else. Bane of Nife can be useful in certain situations, but it is much less reliable than Pox, due to mobs resisting poison more often than disease.

Just checked the logs on one of my computers and got the following resist rates for Pox and Bane:

Pox: 27.34%
Bane: 23.07%

My impression is that common mobs for the most part have equal Disease and Poison resists. I would guess the rate is actually the same over a larger sample. This laptop had about 250 casts of each.

I'm interested to hear what your logs show. I haven't checked my other computers' logs yet.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just checked the logs on one of my computers and got the following resist rates for Pox and Bane:

Pox: 27.34%
Bane: 23.07%

My impression is that common mobs for the most part have equal Disease and Poison resists. I would guess the rate is actually the same over a larger sample. This laptop had about 250 casts of each.

I'm interested to hear what your logs show. I haven't checked my other computers' logs yet.

I don't have any hard data, I've generally just seen more resists on Bane, even when the mob is Malo'ed. But let us take that off the table and assume you are right. It is very possible I am just getting bad luck with Bane, and I don't have the data to prove it either way.

Pox is still the superior spell over Bane. Both cost the same amount of mana, but Pox does more damage, and takes longer to clear. This means you have more time between Pox casts to regain your mana for the next round of DoTs, debuffs, etc.

Don't get me wrong, Bane still has it's uses. I used it a lot when soloing 4 way in Kael, because those mobs have a lot of innate HP regen. But when fighting WW Dragons, I never use it because it just wastes a lot more mana. It's much safer to kill the Dragon a bit slower, and save your mana for whatever may happen during the fight.

But when you have to pick between the two due to money concerns, Pox is the superior spell every time, and not a lot of fights (at least in my experience) require you to use both. Normally one is enough, plus your other DPS from things like JBB, Epic, and Pet.

That is why I usually put Bane at the bottom of the list of expensive spells. It is the least used of my expensive spells.

[Vivitron]

takes longer to clear

This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.

I agree it seems a bit counter-intuitive, but the reality is Shaman spells are very expensive, and Shamans only have 4 flexible spell slots typically. Normally you have Canni 4, Torpor, Turgurs Insects, and Malo on bar at all times. It can be tough to fit even two DoTs. Even with Torpor, you can run out of mana. Take a look at this video, where I am fighting Bravatar (a WW Dragon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpbLuNe0ls

By the end of the fight, I am around 40% life and 10% Mana. If I had used Bane instead of Pox, I would be burning through my mana much faster, due to it's shorter duration. WW Dragons have high innate regen, so whenever your buffs wear off you are losing time because their regen starts healing them again.

Now, could I try to power through the fight with Bane to save a few minutes? Yes, but it is riskier. In my experience saving a minute or two via increased DPS is not worth the increased risk of having to start the fight over, which takes much longer due to healing, repositioning, repulling, etc.

Being a Torpor Shaman involves understanding how quickly you can use HP/Mana during a fight safely, and from my experience Pox gives you a more stable experience, even if it is a bit slower.

Having a longer period between re-casting DoTs means you have more time to Cannibalize/Torpor. Shamans also cast a LOT of spells, so reducing how often you cast can help in a fight too.

[loramin]

This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.

What DeathsSilkyMist is failing to consider (as he often does) is that there exists a world outside his head, and not every fight is the 18-minute WW Dragon fight he imagines.

To your point, it's obviously more nuanced: sometimes you want to kill as quickly as possible, sometimes you want to get the most damage you can for your mana. For the longer fights, Pox is clearly superior (although even so, I still use Bane on long fights ... it's just that when I'm low on mana I stop).

But on the other hand, if you want to kill a mob quickly (say, before it agroes another mob), obviously Bane and nukes are superior. Some fights are even fast enough that Pox won't last the entire fight, which can make it even less efficient than Bane.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What DeathsSilkyMist is failing to consider (as he often does) is that there exists a world outside his head, and not every fight is the 18-minute WW Dragon fight he imagines.

To your point, it's obviously more nuanced: sometimes you want to kill as quickly as possible, sometimes you want to get the most damage you can for your mana. For the longer fights, Pox is clearly superior (although even so, I still use Bane on long fights ... it's just that when I'm low on mana I stop).

But on the other hand, if you want to kill a mob quickly (say, before it agroes another mob), obviously Bane and nukes are superior. Some fights are even fast enough that Pox won't last the entire fight, which can make it even less efficient than Bane.

I didn't fail to consider fights outside of WW dragons:) I simply have a video to show a quick example, which is more tangible than pure text. I see you have not posted any videos to back up your ideas. I even used Kael 4 way as a different example for when Bane is useful.

Bane is the lesser of the two end game DoT spells. Nobody said it is useless, it is simply the least useful of the expensive spells, which is why you shouldn't prioritize it if you are budgeting money.

[Vivitron]

It makes sense that you use pox -- the dpm advantage looks significant. All I'm saying is that if it did the damage faster it would be better. You could pace yourself with an 18 tic timer or by your mana and get the same outcome, but would have the option of doing more damage if the situation called for it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It makes sense that you use pox -- the dpm advantage looks significant. All I'm saying is that if it did the damage faster it would be better. You could pace yourself with an 18 tic timer or by your mana and get the same outcome, but would have the option of doing more damage if the situation called for it.

The problem is damage spikes. If you drain your mana too fast you may not be able to canni it back if a hard hitting monster gets some lucky double attacks. Your encounter ends if you are at 5% mana and 50% health generally, even if the mob is slowed. This is because you need to spend a good chunk of that health to pump your mana for Torpor, and the mob could get lucky on an attack between then and when Torpor starts healing you.

From experience I have found that going the faster but riskier route ends up just wasting more time. Every time you have to gate out you have lost any time advantage Bane gave you, and probably more.

[Zuranthium]

Take a look at this video, where I am fighting Bravatar (a WW Dragon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpbLuNe0ls

Now, could I try to power through the fight with Bane to save a few minutes? Yes, but it is riskier.

You are such a bad player. Torpor isn't being maintained, not even close to having full uptime. It needs to be kept up perma, as that is the entire engine to allow maximum Canni usage. You aren't even keeping the Disease and Epic DoT's maintained properly.

It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You are such a bad player. Torpor isn't being maintained, not even close to having full uptime. It needs to be kept up perma, as that is the entire engine to allow maximum Canni usage. You aren't even keeping the Disease and Epic DoT's maintained properly.

It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.

Post some videos of yourself, oh supposed grandmaster:) You can theory craft in your perfect non practical situations all you want, but that doesn't mean you are right. Show us how you Torpor Shaman.

This also shows how bad you are at understanding DPS, or even Shamans. Most groups clear content so fast that using Bane or Pox would be a waste of mana lol. This is especially true before you get Torpor. The spell costs 425 mana, which is a lot even for a Torpor Shaman. But again, you think DPS is magic, so I am not suprised by this bad take.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Let me give you a more practical example using WW Dragons. On average it takes me 20 minutes to pull and kill one. I only have an hour to play. Lets say I increase my DPS to shave 3 minutes off of each kill.

Do you know how many WW Dragons I could kill in an hour at 17 minutes each? 3 lol. This is again something you don't really understand. Just increasing DPS doesn't guarantee that you pass the threshold for gaining additional kills per hour. It depends on a lot of factors.

When you aren't gaining any additional kills per hour, why increase your risk of death for the sake of DPS? It isn't gaining you anything other than increasing the chance of decreasing how many kills you get per hour.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

p
It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.

Did a video using your "expert" strategy of using Bane and Pox in a WW Dragon fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-PCJ4tCII

It saved... no time at all! Compare the video above to this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEgFcImQ9XU . The reason for this is simple, there are other things in Everquest besides DPS. There is a thing called mana, and you need mana to cast DPS spells. Realistically speaking you cannot keep both DoTs up while also maintaining safe levels of HP/Mana.

So you are just factually wrong here about assuming you could increase my DPS. I wonder what else you have been wrong about?:)

As a Torpor Shaman I am running out of mana casting these DoTs, but for some reason you think a level 55 Shaman without Torpor is just going to spam Bane of Nife on easy mobs being killed in a group lol. I am not sure how you are playing this game, but I don't think you are doing it right.

Pox is factually superior to Bane in most situations, which is why you should prioritize it over Bane. The other expensive spells like Malo and Torpor are also superior to Bane, which is why Bane basically ends up at the end of the list. You certainly should buy Bane, it just isn't a high priority compared to your other spells.

[greenspectre]

Situations I'd use Bane over Pox in all pretty much boil down to low-resist mobs that I need dead faster, at the cost of mana efficiency. A good example would be trying to break the Pawbuster camp in KC. That's 4 mobs that you have to manage and the faster you can get them down, the easier it will be to deal with the ones remaining.

My experiences are similar to DSM when it comes to WW dragons, in that Pox gets resisted less than Bane, but I do throw in Insidious Decay there. However, I think Bane landed more often than Pox on Cliff Golems for me so maybe it's a wash.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Situations I'd use Bane over Pox in all pretty much boil down to low-resist mobs that I need dead faster, at the cost of mana efficiency. A good example would be trying to break the Pawbuster camp in KC. That's 4 mobs that you have to manage and the faster you can get them down, the easier it will be to deal with the ones remaining.

My experiences are similar to DSM when it comes to WW dragons, in that Pox gets resisted less than Bane, but I do throw in Insidious Decay there. However, I think Bane landed more often than Pox on Cliff Golems for me so maybe it's a wash.

Oh yeah, there are definitely situations where Bane is useful, and where you would want to use Pox and Bane to kill mobs faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS3uoIHTu_c

This is an example of soloing in Chardok. Since those mobs don't have a lot of innate HP regen, but are quite dangerous, it is a good idea in this situation to just burn down the mob ASAP. I haven't done Pawbuster solo, but that sounds right since Kunark mobs generally don't have a lot of HP.

[Danth]

p

Did a video using your "expert" strategy of using Bane and Pox in a WW Dragon fight:

If Z's regularly doing even the easier WW dragons, solo, within the span of a single malo cast (what is that, 12 or 13 minutes?) I want to see because I don't know of any solo'ers who can regularly kill them so quickly. As a duo the wife and I can usually kill them within a slow duration, but adding a second person usually more than doubles killspeed on those since much of the first person's damage dealt is going to countering their regeneration.

As for Pox vs. Bane, mostly I'd advise someone looking to buy 'em to buy whichever one he happens to find for sale first since it can be spotty at times finding a seller. While they're distinct spells, I consider their overall impact pretty close to each other and I think of them mostly as a pair.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If Z's regularly doing even the easier WW dragons, solo, within the span of a single malo cast (what is that, 12 or 13 minutes?) I want to see because I don't know of any solo'ers who can regularly kill them so quickly. As a duo the wife and I can usually kill them within a slow duration, but adding a second person usually more than doubles killspeed on those since much of the first person's damage dealt is going to countering their regeneration.

As for Pox vs. Bane, mostly I'd advise someone looking to buy 'em to buy whichever one he happens to find for sale first since it can be spotty at times finding a seller. While they're distinct spells, I consider their overall impact pretty close to each other and I think of them mostly as a pair.

Danth

Yeah I would love to see a video of Z being an amazing Torpor Shaman and showing us how it's done. Somehow I don't think we will get this video sadly.

[greenspectre]

If Z's regularly doing even the easier WW dragons, solo, within the span of a single malo cast (what is that, 12 or 13 minutes?) I want to see because I don't know of any solo'ers who can regularly kill them so quickly. As a duo the wife and I can usually kill them within a slow duration, but adding a second person usually more than doubles killspeed on those since much of the first person's damage dealt is going to countering their regeneration.

As for Pox vs. Bane, mostly I'd advise someone looking to buy 'em to buy whichever one he happens to find for sale first since it can be spotty at times finding a seller. While they're distinct spells, I consider their overall impact pretty close to each other and I think of them mostly as a pair.

Danth

As long as you're doing the 4-neck dragons, Getting em dead with just Pox, Epic, and pet DPS is pretty reasonable within one Malo cast. Though I go Malo, Slow, then Malosini right after just for the added resist debuff.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

As long as you're doing the 4-neck dragons, Getting em dead with just Pox, Epic, and pet DPS is pretty reasonable within one Malo cast. Though I go Malo, Slow, then Malosini right after just for the added resist debuff.

The reason why I Malo again at 50% Dragon health is simply because sometimes it takes me a while to pull the dragon from their position to the kill spot. This is especially true with a dragon like Bravatar. I always Malo when starting the pull, so Malo is burning while I am attempting to Slow and pull the mob back to the kill spot.

I made this second Malo a habit, even for easier to pull Dragons like Hechaeva, because it doesn't affect my kill speed, and guarantees Malo throughout the fight. A long pull + unlucky resists can lead to the fight taking long enough for Malo to wear off.

Not all WW Dragon fights go quite as smoothly as my posted videos. Sometimes a WW dragon will resist Pox 3x times in a row lol. That is a lot of mana to recover.

[Danth]

As long as you're doing the 4-neck dragons, Getting em dead with just Pox, Epic, and pet DPS is pretty reasonable within one Malo cast. Though I go Malo, Slow, then Malosini right after just for the added resist debuff.

Interesting. Yeah obviously we all mean 4's, nobody's solo'ing a 6'er all that quickly. Pet must make the difference for that; the folks I know (myself included when I've done 'em) don't bother using the pet on those. Does this assume use of the water pseudo-sploit to cheeze the AE's? Obviously eliminating Ae damage would save more mana and time for offensive action. be interesting to see the fastest practical speed for a shaman to solo one of the 4's.

Not all WW Dragon fights go quite as smoothly as my posted videos. Sometimes a WW dragon will resist Pox 3x times in a row lol. That is a lot of mana to recover.

This is true too, RNG will RNG. Even in a duo, sometimes we get through one without me needing any outside heals, sometimes I might need one, sometimes RNG frowns on us and I might need a few torpors.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Interesting. Yeah obviously we all mean 4's, nobody's solo'ing a 6'er all that quickly. Pet must make the difference for that; the folks I know (myself included when I've done 'em) don't bother using the pet on those. Does this assume use of the water pseudo-sploit to cheeze the AE's? Obviously eliminating Ae damage would save more mana and time for offensive action. be interesting to see the fastest practical speed for a shaman to solo one of the 4's.

When soloing the pet is very good for WW Dragons. The pet basically does just enough damage to mostly stop it's regen, so your Pox + Epic DoT can just tick down the Dragon. I don't even haste my pet for the first 80% of it's health bar, because that causes the pet to push the dragon out of the water faster, and thus increases the chance of getting AoE'ed.

[Danth]

When soloing the pet is very good for WW Dragons. The pet basically does just enough damage to mostly stop it's regen, so your Pox + Epic DoT can just tick down the Dragon. I don't even haste my pet, because that causes the pet to push the dragon out of the water faster, and thus increases the chance of getting AoE'ed.

That'd be irrelevant in my case; out of personal preference I completely refuse to use that tactic; I regard it as something of an exploit. That is not a knock on the folks who use it--it's been known by the P99 staff long enough that it has defacto official sanction since they've neither commented nor altered it. I'm just doing stuff for fun rather than "efficiency" and I don't have as much fun when I feel like I'm being cheap.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That'd be irrelevant in my case; out of personal preference I completely refuse to use that tactic; I regard it as something of an exploit. That is not a knock on the folks who use it--it's been known by the P99 staff long enough that it has defacto official sanction since they've neither commented nor altered it. I'm just doing stuff for fun rather than "efficiency" and I don't have as much fun when I feel like I'm being cheap.

If you aren't using the water then yeah pet isn't as good, since it get's AoE'ed a lot and ends up dying.

[Zuranthium]

Did a video using your "expert" strategy of using Bane and Pox in a WW Dragon fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-PCJ4tCII

Yet again showing what a bad player you are. YOUR PET ISN'T EVEN UP WHEN YOU START THE FIGHT, YOU CAST IT MID-COMBAT. Absolutely atrocious. You also don't properly position the pet to always attack from behind.

You aren't using the max resist debuff, you still don't keep Torpor up properly throughout the entire fight (and at times you actually overwrite it too quickly now), and you don't maintain the DoT's properly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yet again showing what a bad player you are. YOUR PET ISN'T EVEN UP WHEN YOU START THE FIGHT, YOU CAST IT MID-COMBAT. Absolutely atrocious. You also don't properly position the pet to always attack from behind.

You aren't using the max resist debuff, you still don't keep Torpor up properly throughout the entire fight (and at times you actually overwrite it too quickly now), and you don't maintain the DoT's properly.

Again, such a bad take that shows nothing but a lack of knowledge. I am KoS to Dragons, so I need to be invis when setting up pulls. Since you seem to know so little about Everquest, you probably don't know that you cannot have a pet up while invis.

I guess you also don't know about the water trick lol, or push mechanics. You don't want your pet attacking from behind, because it pushes the dragon out of the water. Keeping the dragon in the water stops the dragon from AoEing you.

I don't need to waste mana casting the better debuff, the resist rate with Malo is low enough. You can get bad resist strings even with Malosini.

You have no evidence to back up how you think Torporing works, or mana management on a Shaman.

I have videos disproving your terrible takes. You just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself. You claim to be some kind of power gamer, but you are honestly just a silly noob. It's ok to admit you are a noob. Then you can learn how to play:)

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

I guess you also don't know about the water trick lol, or push mechanics. You don't want your pet attacking from behind, because it pushes the dragon out of the water. Keeping the dragon in the water stops the dragon from AoEing you.

The guy plays on red, we aren't allowed to cheese mobs in the water there.
For a guy who bills himself as a top tier player you are showing some very average gameplay. I'm not sure if you are either distracted or playing with one hand, you are a clicker. Learn to use alt1-8 and it will improve your gameplay.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The guy plays on red, we aren't allowed to cheese mobs in the water there.
For a guy who bills himself as a top tier player you are showing some very average gameplay. I'm not sure if you are either distracted or playing with one hand, you are a clicker. Learn to use alt1-8 and it will improve your gameplay.

I never billed myself as a top tier player.

The point of my videos has never been to show top tier "1337" gaming. I am being lazy, and not even using Gina lol. The point of these videos is to show players how the game works. Most people do not have Torpor Shamans, so it can be difficult to imagine how they work just by reading text blocks. I can tell you though that even if I went super hard, I wouldn't save much time on a WW Dragon fight. Since the fights take so long, saving a minute or maybe two isn't going to increase my kills per hour, unless I am playing like 10 hours in a day (which I do not). If you can kill 3 Dragons an hour due to each one taking 20 minutes, you are still only killing 3 per hour if you reduce the time to 18 minutes per kill. Even playing 2 hours straight you would still only average 6 kills. I usually do not spend more than 2 hours a day killing WW dragons.

So I see no point in going that hard, because it's a lot of extra effort for zero reward. If you can show a video of yourself doing WW Dragons considerably faster, I would love to see it so I can learn.

However, I am not sure why you think my videos show "average" gamplay. It is easy to criticize, but you need to show what you think is "above average". Otherwise it is just all talk. We need something to compare my playstyle to. I think a lot of people watching these videos don't realize things have cooldowns, spells fizzle, and your spells can be interrupted. Watching often feels slower because you aren't feeling the fact that pressing buttons don't always yield the desired updates such as the spell being cast. This isn't a twitch game by any means lol.

[Ripqozko]

I never billed myself as a top tier player.

The point of my videos has never been to show top tier "1337" gaming. I am being lazy, and not even using Gina lol. The point is to show how the game works. I can tell you though that even if I went super hard, I wouldn't save much time on a WW Dragon fight. Since the fights take so long, saving a minute or maybe two isn't going to increase my kills per hour, unless I am playing like 10 hours in a day. So I see no point in going that hard, because it's a lot of extra effort for zero reward. If you can show a video of yourself doing WW Dragons considerably faster, I would love to see it so I can learn.

However, I am not sure why you think it is so "average". It is easy to criticize, but you need to show what you think is "above average". Otherwise it is just all talk.

imagine using exploits yikes, we get it you play a shm.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

imagine using exploits yikes, we get it you play a shm.

More nonsense. Stick to living in RnF please.

[Ripqozko]

More nonsense. Stick to living in RnF please.

Sorry you like to exploit this game, you are pure yikes. Please tell us more about how you cheat in videos.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry you like to exploit this game, you are pure yikes. Please tell us more about how you cheat in videos.

It's not an exploit, as the dev's do not punish people for it. Same with things like the gnome "wall hack". Sorry you don't know how to play the game within the rules.

You always love to be the one with the last reply. Sorry you're such a sperg.

[Ripqozko]

It's not an exploit, as the dev's do not punish people for it. Same with things like the gnome "wall hack". Sorry you don't know how to play the game within the rules.

You always love to be the one with the last reply. Sorry you're such a sperg.

Sorry you love to cheat, you cant spin that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry you love to cheat, you cant spin that.

Sorry you don't know what cheating is lol. Reply last again please.

[Zuranthium]

Again, such a bad take that shows nothing but a lack of knowledge. I am KoS to Dragons, so I need to be invis when setting up pulls.

You do not need to be invis when setting up pull just because you're KOS. This shows your own lack of understanding, yet again.

I guess you also don't know about the water trick lol, or push mechanics. You don't want your pet attacking from behind, because it pushes the dragon out of the water. Keeping the dragon in the water stops the dragon from AoEing you.

The dragon stays in the water. You just need to position properly. Which you fail to do.

I don't need to waste mana casting the better debuff, the resist rate with Malo is low enough.

You are losing mana on average if you don't use the better debuff. And LOL @ "wasting mana" in the first place when Malosini costs 200, and lasts longer, compared to Malo costing 350. No surprise about you failing to understand math though.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You do not need to be invis when setting up pull just because you're KOS. This shows your own lack of understanding, yet again.



The dragon stays in the water. You just need to position properly. Which you fail to do.



You are losing mana on average if you don't use the better debuff. And LOL @ "wasting mana" in the first place when Malosini costs 200, and lasts longer, compared to Malo costing 350. No surprise about you failing to understand math though.

Yes, you do need to be invis because if you get agro from another mob en route to the Dragon you lose a lot of time either killing it or gating. You can't see every angle but mobs can still agro you. But you wouldn't know this.

Pushing moves the dragon, but you don't know about piush mechanics. I am positioning my pet correctly.

Again, you havent done Ww Dragons clearly, so you have no valid opinion about efficency. I have tried both ways (Malo and Malosini), while you have clearly done neither.

Please stop saying nonsense and trying to confuse people.

[mattydef]

I recommend just parking your pet at the ledge pre fight and not pulling invis. I used to pull Bratavar while KOS with no problems at all, you just have to be careful and aware of your surroundings.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I recommend just parking your pet at the ledge pre fight and not pulling invis. I used to pull Bratavar while KOS with no problems at all, you just have to be careful and aware of your surroundings.

I know you can do this:) I have done it before, even on Bravatar. The problem is there are a lot of hills, and sometimes you just make mistakes and misjudge distances. I have done tests on this, and on average I save more time doing the safer invis method as opposed to YOLOing it. Saving 1 minute parking your pet isn't worth the 10 minutes it takes to run back if you gate, or the 5 minutes it takes to kill a trash mob. This is especially true when you only have an hour or two to kill WW Dragons in a day. I don't have the time to kill WW Dragons for 8 hours a day. Any mistake is generally a huge setback, and will cost you at least 1 WW Dragon per hour.

I would love to see other videos of Shaman's killing WW Dragons. I have never claimed this is the absolute best method. It is simply a well balanced approach. Good kill speed, good consistency, and low risk. I am sure there are methods that have higher kill speeds, with less consistency and more risk.

[Zuranthium]

Yes, you do need to be invis because if you get agro from another mob en route to the Dragon you lose a lot of time either killing it or gating. You can't see every angle but mobs can still agro you.

You lack awareness and ability to plan a suitable path. Invis is not needed.

Pushing moves the dragon, but you don't know about piush mechanics. I am positioning my pet correctly.

LOL, you don't understand how to do something and then are so inane in your assumptions that you think someone else doesn't know what push is. Amazing. You are NOT positioning correctly. You can stand parallel to the coast and the Dragon will be in the water still. The pet doesn't push that much anyway. All you're doing is wasting mana and DPS with your current way of playing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You lack awareness and ability to plan a suitable path. Invis is not needed.


You clearly did not read. It reduces the possibility of a mistake, which saves more time than keeping the pet up. Consistency is greater than shaving 1 minute or 30 seconds. When a fight lasts 20 minutes, you are still killing 3 Dragons an hour if you reduce the time to 19 minutes. You don't seem to understand that reducing 30 seconds just for the sake of it doesn't actually do anything meaningful. This is probably why you overvalue DPS, for some reason you think saving 1 second matters, even when you aren't actually killing more mobs per hour. I am not killing Dragons for so many hours a day that 1 or 2 minutes will make a difference. Reducing my chances of getting agroed and then wasting 5-10 minutes gating/killing is keeping my kills per hour way more consistent.


LOL, you don't understand how to do something and then are so inane in your assumptions that you think someone else doesn't know what push is. Amazing. You are NOT positioning correctly. You can stand parallel to the coast and the Dragon will be in the water still. The pet doesn't push that much anyway. All you're doing is wasting mana and DPS with your current way of playing.

My pet pushes the Dragon out of the water every time he is behind the Dragon, even unhasted. I am sorry you don't understand pushing lol. My pet is positioned correctly to push the dragon sideways, which is keeping him in the water.

You also don't seem to understand that you don't have to be directly behind a mob to get the benefits of not getting riposted and whatnot. You can be ON THE SIDE of the mob and still get those benefits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-PCJ4tCII just look at the chat logs if you don't believe me, you won't see my pet getting riposted. Pet damage appears in the bottom right chat log. I can even post the logs lol. The only time he gets riposted is when he bugs out at the end of the fight. Once in a blue moon the pet will stop attacking when it is in the water. You can see in the video he stops attacking and moves towards me around 11:40. Now that he is in the frontal cone of the mob, he can be riposted, and does in fact get riposted once.

I provided a video debunking your poor theory about using both Bane and Pox to increase DPS and kill times. That is the video I posted above. It didn't work because of mana constraints. I didn't save any time at all. You simply do not understand how mana usage and DPS works on a Shaman, so please refrain from pretending that you do.

It is just embarrassing you keep doubling down to be honest. Please provide video evidence, or keep revealing your lack of game knowledge. You shouldn't pretend to be such an expert. You wouldn't post so angrily, and people would gladly help you learn the game better, including myself.

[Danth]

Consistency is greater than shaving 1 minute or 30 seconds.

My long experience tells me the folks who obsess over killspeed and rush rush RUSH RUSH RUSSSSHHH tend to be the same folks who habitually ignore bad pulls/RNG/mistakes/etc as "doesn't count" and mentally write off such things.

Some folks obsess about kill speed and here I'll do it the "hard" way, on purpose and by choice....just illustrates that different people play this game very differently. There are folks I like just fine, but can't stand to try to group with because our modes of operation are too diametrically opposed. It's only wrong if someone logs out and didn't have a good time. Each to his own.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

My long experience tells me the folks who obsess over killspeed and rush rush RUSH RUSH RUSSSSHHH tend to be the same folks who habitually ignore bad pulls/RNG/mistakes/etc as "doesn't count" and mentally write off such things.

Some folks obsess about kill speed and here I'll do it the "hard" way, on purpose and by choice....just illustrates that different people play this game very differently. There are folks I like just fine, but can't stand to try to group with because our modes of operation are too diametrically opposed. It's only wrong if someone logs out and didn't have a good time. Each to his own.

Danth

I agree. Personally I don't care how Z plays himself. However he wants to have fun.

The problem is he is making objective assertions that you could do the fight much better. He has no evidence for this, and keeps shooting himself in the foot by showing he doesn't understand what he is talking about.

I would love to see him show us a video putting mine to shame. Then we can all learn how to play better. But he won't post it. Either he doesn't have a Torpor Shaman, or he doesn't want to show how he plays.

Objectively speaking the math is simple when it comes to efficiency. Saving 1 minute on a 20 minute fight will not increase how many kills per hour you are getting, unless you are playing for a whole day. Once you are at the point where saving 1 minute or 30 seconds isn't helping, it's better to focus on other areas such as consistency. Reducing the odds of a mistake by improving pull safety maintains your kills per hour better, as an example.

[Danth]

I'd like to see it too. Once in awhile I see stuff that I didn't think of myself. I like incorporating good ideas when I see them and can use 'em.

For that matter I'd like to see you (or group up in-game sometime) do it the same way I do and witness just how much those excellent resists of yours actually help.

Like, how much junk buffing do you do on those? Since you're not getting tagged often it doesn't seem as important. Usually I have to keep 4 on due to frequent dispells, with slots 5 and 6 being lesser priority stuff like maybe agility. I avoid losing critical buffs (except when buff order fritzes out), but obviously it means I have to pick and choose main buffs somewhat carefully.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'd like to see it too. Once in awhile I see stuff that I didn't think of myself. I like incorporating good ideas when I see them and can use 'em.

For that matter I'd like to see you (or group up in-game sometime) do it the same way I do and witness just how much those excellent resists of yours actually help.

Like, how much junk buffing do you do on those? Since you're not getting tagged often it doesn't seem as important. Usually I have to keep 4 on due to frequent dispells, with slots 5 and 6 being lesser priority stuff like maybe agility. I avoid losing critical buffs (except when buff order fritzes out), but obviously it means I have to pick and choose main buffs somewhat carefully.

Danth

Yeah we can probably coordinate that at some point. I don't have a ton of time these days, but maybe on a weekend.

Resistance-wise when I have like 240+ into a resistance I do resist 4+ dragon AoEs a decent amount when I am pulling them back to the kill spot. I also keep 4 junk buffs up (Ring 9, SoW/Fungi Staff, Black Flower, Green flower). But if I was to kill WW Dragons without the water trick I may adjust my buff orders a bit. It's been a while so I don't remember how often the dispel hits other slots.

[greenspectre]

Yeah we can probably coordinate that at some point. I don't have a ton of time these days, but maybe on a weekend.

Resistance-wise when I have like 240+ into a resistance I do resist 4+ dragon AoEs a decent amount when I am pulling them back to the kill spot. I also keep 4 junk buffs up (Ring 9, SoW/Fungi Staff, Black Flower, Green flower). But if I was to kill WW Dragons without the water trick I may adjust my buff orders a bit. It's been a while so I don't remember how often the dispel hits other slots.

It's not too often, really. As long as you have two instant-click junk buffs. Doing Hechaeva (sp) with my clicky SoW and Grim Aura items, then junk buffing with CHA, Ultravision, and AGL I can finish a fight with AGL intact sometimes. It feels like its about 70/20/5/5 as far as chances to hit buff slots 1-4.

[Zuranthium]

Consistency is greater than shaving 1 minute or 30 seconds. When a fight lasts 20 minutes, you are still killing 3 Dragons an hour if you reduce the time to 19 minutes.

They can be killed faster than that. More fallacies from you.

I am not killing Dragons for so many hours a day that 1 or 2 minutes will make a difference. Reducing my chances of getting agroed and then wasting 5-10 minutes gating/killing is keeping my kills per hour way more consistent.

You won't get aggroed anyway if you just play properly. You will save more than "1 or 2 minutes" and you don't just need to be killing Dragons in WW, the time you save means you can move on to doing something else. Either in game or irl.

My pet pushes the Dragon out of the water every time he is behind the Dragon, even unhasted. I am sorry you don't understand pushing lol. My pet is positioned correctly to push the dragon sideways, which is keeping him in the water.

You are so dumb. Again, YOU STAND PARALLEL TO THE COAST. So the Dragon is in the water regardless. Him getting pushed only slightly changes where in the water he will be.

You also don't seem to understand that you don't have to be directly behind a mob to get the benefits of not getting riposted and whatnot.

Your pet was in the front much of the time in the video. And if you do indeed position correctly, then there no reason to not have the pet hasted from the start.

I provided a video debunking your poor theory about using both Bane and Pox to increase DPS and kill times. That is the video I posted above.

Your video doesn't debunk anything. All it does is show how poorly you play.

[Danth]

You won't get aggroed anyway if you just play properly.

You going to claim you can fight the interior pulls, a few hundred of those over time and never get inadvertent or unwanted aggro? Bullshit. Maybe you lived the good life killing Yeldema and Gafala forever. Or maybe you pulled Bratavar or Mazi or Ayillish four or five times and didn't have trouble and gave yourself a pat on the back. Bravo! Now go do it another several hundred times.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

They can be killed faster than that. More fallacies from you.


You have yet to prove it lol. I have videos, you don't. More DPS fantasies that have no anchoring in reality. You still don't know what a fallacy is either hehe.



You won't get aggroed anyway if you just play properly. You will save more than "1 or 2 minutes" and you don't just need to be killing Dragons in WW, the time you save means you can move on to doing something else. Either in game or irl.


You've clearly never pulled WW Dragons either. You have no real opinion on the matter.



You are so dumb. Again, YOU STAND PARALLEL TO THE COAST. So the Dragon is in the water regardless. Him getting pushed only slightly changes where in the water he will be.


You are trying to split hairs because of how badly you are losing. You really don't understand push as your previous posts show. If the Dragon gets pushed a little too far into the water, I lose line of sight and have to reposition the mob, which wastes time.


Your pet was in the front much of the time in the video. And if you do indeed position correctly, then there no reason to not have the pet hasted from the start.


You didn't watch the video clearly. You can check the logs, he isn't getting riposted. He's to the side of the mob, to the point where he's doing max damage. You know nothing about fighting WW Dragons, you don't even know how pet positioning works. That is odd for someone who I assume is a Mage.


Your video doesn't debunk anything. All it does is show how poorly you play.

It debunks all your posts. You are just too much of a noob to see it:)

You going to claim you can fight the interior pulls, a few hundred of those over time and never get inadvertent or unwanted aggro? Bullshit. Maybe you lived the good life killing Yeldema and Gafala forever. Or maybe you pulled Bratavar or Mazi or Ayillish four or five times and didn't have trouble and gave yourself a pat on the back. Bravo! Now go do it another several hundred times.

At this point I am convinced he hasn't even killed one WW Dragon. But he will never post any videos of himself, he is probably too embarrassed at his playstyle. It would ruin his already fragile attempt to look like a "pro gamer".

[Danth]

To be fair I'm not going to post videos of myself, either, because I don't make videos. So I don't hold that, specifically, against anyone. But the suggestion you'll never get aggro there is a straight-up fairy tale. Mobs pop in and out of visual range, they aggro from behind geometry where you can't even see them, you get run over and trained by kiters or by people running to temple veeshan or training sontalak away, you hang out there long enough stuff is going to happen.

Yeah, I can solo pull any dragon there to most any point in the zone, reliably (shadowknight), and a shaman could too if he wanted....but the shaman'll have to do it by sometimes needing to root/camp and whatnot. You MIGHT argue with someone that he could summon the pet and if he has some bad luck and has to root camp once, well, he at least still gets the pet the other majority of pulls that don't go sour.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

To be fair I'm not going to post videos of myself, either, because I don't make videos. So I don't hold that, specifically, against anyone. But the suggestion you'll never get aggro there is a straight-up fairy tale. Mobs pop in and out of visual range, they aggro from behind geometry where you can't even see them, you get run over and trained by kiters or by people running to temple veeshan or training sontalak away, you hang out there long enough stuff is going to happen.

Yeah, I can solo pull any dragon there to most any point in the zone, reliably (shadowknight), and a shaman could too if he wanted....but the shaman'll have to do it by sometimes needing to root/camp and whatnot. You MIGHT argue with someone that he could summon the pet and if he has some bad luck and has to root camp once, well, he at least still gets the pet the other majority of pulls that don't go sour.

You don't need to make videos, because you are not making silly claims that you are pushing as fact. It is clear by your posts you have actually fought WW Dragons and pulled in WW. I am not getting that at all from Z.

I am pretty sure you cannot summon pets once you have agro, so I don't think it would be helpful. I'll test that again sometime soon, but I remember having problems with it when making my Ice Burrower video. And this assumes the agro is from something you can root camp. Some of the nastier roamers like Mraaka (who has no agro message and looks like all the other craigworms) has a huge agro radius and isn't going to let you root him hehe.

[Danth]

I am pretty sure you cannot summon pets once you have agro, so I don't think it would be helpful. I'll test that again sometime soon, but I remember having problems with it when making my Ice Burrower video.

Don't understand what you mean here. Certainly I summon pets while on a hatelist or directly in combat on a regular basis...P99's channeling makes it pretty simple. Although in this case if you wanted one in advance you'd be summoning one before you went out to pull at all so the aggro's kind of moot. Suspect you mean something more specific and I'm not getting the jist of it.

(EDIT) the funny part is this is deriving from obsessing over speed....and how do you solo-pull there, with minimal chance of adds or issues? By taking your time, being patient, waiting on roamers, watching pathing, and mostly by being slow. Want to pull Mazi, oops there's two wyverns and a drake and oh there's Del Sapara. Now you're either pulling something crappier like Vraptin instead or you're waiting.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Don't understand what you mean here. Certainly I summon pets while on a hatelist or directly in combat on a regular basis...P99's channeling makes it pretty simple. Although in this case if you wanted one in advance you'd be summoning one before you went out to pull at all so the aggro's kind of moot. Suspect you mean something more specific and I'm not getting the jist of it.

OH you mean cast the pet spell. I thought you meant the https://wiki.project1999.com/Summon_Companion spell.


(EDIT) the funny part is this is deriving from obsessing over speed....and how do you solo-pull there, with minimal chance of adds or issues? By taking your time, being patient, waiting on roamers, watching pathing, and mostly by being slow. Want to pull Mazi, oops there's two wyverns and a drake and oh there's Del Sapara. Now you're either pulling something crappier like Vraptin instead or you're waiting.

Agreed. Again, for some reason Z thinks all you need to do is increase DPS and everything else will just shake out hehe.

[Danth]

OH you mean cast the pet spell. I thought you meant the https://wiki.project1999.com/Summon_Companion spell.

Gotcha. Figured it was some miscommunication like that. Yeah, a sufficiently motivated player could summon the pet then go out and pull and if he has to root/camp once in awhile and lose the pet, so be it. Some folks do that. Some don't like fussing and in the end it's not a big difference killing four of them in an hour and twenty minutes vs, an hour and ten when you're logging off after the fourth either way.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Gotcha. Figured it was some miscommunication like that. Yeah, a sufficiently motivated player could summon the pet then go out and pull and if he has to root/camp once in awhile and lose the pet, so be it. Some folks do that. Some don't like fussing and in the end it's not a big difference killing four of them in an hour and twenty minutes vs, an hour and ten when you're logging off after the fourth either way.

Exactly.

[Danth]

Exactly.

Heck when I do it, duo, solo, grouped, whatever, I do it the hard way absorbing the AE's--by preference, sitting there three feet from the shoreline which could gimp the entire thing--which has got to just about make a power-gamer's head explode because it's not the easiest and most efficient way to do it. Oh no in the hundreds of those I've killed I might have killed another hundred in that time and made a few tens of thousands more pixel-platinum that I could lump into my bank full of it that I'm already not using! The horror!

[Zuranthium]

You have yet to prove it lol. I have videos, you don't.

Your videos show you are playing wrong, as has been pointed out multiple times with how you stagger spells incorrectly, how you don't use all the correct spells to begin with, and how you aren't using the pet to best effect. You also don't swap in a better melee weapon. If you play better, it's a factual certainty that you would kill faster.

You are trying to split hairs. You really don't understand push as your previous posts show. If the Dragon gets pushed a little too far into the water, I lose line of sight and have to reposition the mob, which wastes time.

There are no "split hairs", you are simply positioning wrong. I understand push, stop using these pathetic straw man lines all the time; the pet does not push to the degree you are trying to say (unless something was changed), and there is enough room to fight while keeping the Dragon at the correct elevation.

You didn't watch the video clearly.

YOUR PET IS FACTUALLY IN FRONT OF THE DRAGON AT 11:40 IN THE VIDEO. It remains there for over a minute. You are so fucking ridiculous. In the previous video the pet was in front for far longer than that as well.

You've clearly never pulled WW Dragons either.

No, you clearly are just a bad puller. Hechaeva is right next to the water. There is NO reason whatsoever to use invis there. You are simply playing bad.

You're also contradicting yourself, as you lose invis anyway when pulling, and in the Bravatar video you are running through the middle of the fucking zone, instead of running the shorter distance to Bravatar from the cliff, where it's easy to what's coming and avoid it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Show videos or admit defeat. You are just a noob who thinks he knows how to play:) All of your "critisisms" are incorrect or were already explained by myself. Continuing to double down with text just shows how bad you are.

For people who want to learn, you invis at Hechaeva for two reasons: There is a long pather that goes right by her, and sometimes they are just out of visual range when you get close. You want to check for them and wait for them to path by before pulling. The second reason is because you can get extra cast time before hechaeva sees you when you uninvis, depending on the server update. It reduces the odds of your first spell being interrupted. This is true for all mobs, which is another reason why invising here is good. You want your first spells to go off asap.

[Danth]

and in the Bravatar video you are running through the middle of the fucking zone, instead of running the shorter distance to Bravatar from the cliff, where it's easy to what's coming and avoid it.

I loaded the Bratavar video so I could see what the fuss was over.....and I don't see the fuss. He pulled a perfectly normal way, with two burrowers on one side, and too many roamers, including at least one roamer dragon, on the other side. The dragons have extremely large assist range so you need to stay unusually well clear of them. The pathing around there also tends to favor the east/west tracks for some reason so once it gets crowded it tends to stay crowded for a bit. That was a bit of a dice roll pulling it right when he did--I suspect he knew he was making a video and got a little impatient--and taking it a ways north was the smart thing to do in that circumstance.

The most irritating thing about the video was the constant use of third person easymode view and while it rubs me wrong I can hardly crucify him for that since probably most folks on P99 use it. Play first person like the game was meant to be played! I don't use mousewheel, I use first-person and F9 like intended.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I loaded the Bratavar video so I could see what the fuss was over.....and I don't see the fuss. He pulled a perfectly normal way, with two burrowers on one side, and too many roamers, including at least one roamer dragon, on the other side. The dragons have extremely large assist range so you need to stay unusually well clear of them. The pathing around there also tends to favor the east/west tracks for some reason so once it gets crowded it tends to stay crowded for a bit. That was a bit of a dice roll pulling it right when he did--I suspect he knew he was making a video and got a little impatient--and taking it a ways north was the smart thing to do in that circumstance.

The most irritating thing about the video was the constant use of third person easymode view and while it rubs me wrong I can hardly crucify him for that since probably most folks on P99 use it. Play first person like the game was meant to be played! I don't use mousewheel, I use first-person and F9 like intended.

Danth

Thanks for checking out the video!

He is simply making a fuss because he wants to prove how much of a "pro gamer" he is. I am not sure why he wants to do that, and he is failing at it miserably. I think he just got angry in the "most underpowered" class thread, and is bringing that anger here.

As I have said before, my videos are not perfect, and their intent is not to show hard core gaming at it's finest. They show how the game works, and a good strategy for beating WW Dragons. You are correct when you surmise that I do get impatient from time to time when making these videos. I'd rather get a clean video done, even if it isn't 100% perfect, as opposed to shooting it over again, especially for a video that is showcasing a 20 minute fight.

None of Zuranthium's suggestions would improve these videos in any significant way, as shown by the video I made showcasing his "DPS strategy". He will continue to make silly "criticisms" I am sure, but none of them will hold water. I would be happy to see his "pro gaming" strategies in a video, so we can all learn how to Shaman better. But he won't.

[Danth]

I'd rather get a clean video done, even if it isn't 100% perfect,

Min-max YouTube video making: Start it when you tag rather than when you first run out, brag about your perfect quick clean pull, don't show the 10 minutes you have to stand there waiting for it, nobody's the wiser! Nah, I respect the effort at showing reality as it is, warts and all, rather than constantly trying to cherry-pick perfection.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Min-max YouTube video making: Start it when you tag rather than when you first run out, brag about your perfect quick clean pull, don't show the 10 minutes you have to stand there waiting for it, nobody's the wiser! Nah, I respect the effort at showing reality as it is, warts and all, rather than constantly trying to cherry-pick perfection.

Thanks. That is the purpose of my videos. When you do the Youtube preferred way of shorter videos with cuts, it hides some of the smaller strategies people may be wondering about, such as how to do a complete pull from start to finish.

I am not trying to become some huge Youtuber, I just want people to be able to see the entire method, so they can get all the information needed to do it themselves. It's more boring, but also more informative.

[Zuranthium]

None of Zuranthium's suggestions would improve these videos in any significant way, as shown by the video I made showcasing his "DPS strategy".

Yes they would improve it. You simply refuse to listen and/or are somehow incapable of executing. You ignore the very clear mistakes you're doing and then point at video of playing poorly as some kind of evidence in your favor. Total dunning-kruger syndrome.

you invis at Hechaeva for two reasons: There is a long pather that goes right by her, and sometimes they are just out of visual range when you get close. You want to check for them and wait for them to path by before pulling.

You don't need invis to check. Nothing is "out of visual range". You just peak up the cliff, see it's clear, and then walk over to pull. It's so simple.

The second reason is because you can get extra cast time before hechaeva sees you when you uninvis, depending on the server update. It reduces the odds of your first spell being interrupted.

Your first spell should be Malosini, which is not going to be interrupted anyway with its quick cast time. These targets don't need a Malo starter, the other debuff is better and has a good enough chance of landing on its own. You save lots of mana when it gets off 1st cast, and if it doesn't you just kite around a bit and try again. Much better than taking unnecessary rounds of attack and also wasting more mana and cast time midfight to reapply.

I loaded the Bratavar video so I could see what the fuss was over.....and I don't see the fuss. He pulled a perfectly normal way, with two burrowers on one side, and too many roamers, including at least one roamer dragon, on the other side.

If you draw a line west from Bratavar, that path has less MOBs. It's not hard to start over at the water ledge, run east unvis while avoiding MOBs, stand on top of the westward hill to get a vantage point, and then go pull when you see an opening where the timing is appropriate to run in and out. Instead he is running up from the south central area and just standing there next to Bratavar.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes they would improve it. You simply refuse to listen and/or are somehow incapable of executing. You ignore the very clear mistakes you're doing and then point at video of playing poorly as some kind of evidence in your favor. Total dunning-kruger syndrome.


You are a noob. Please stop wasting everybody's time because you think you aren't. I will happily have a dialogue if you can actually stop saying the same wrong things over and over again.


You don't need invis to check. Nothing is "out of visual range". You just peak up the cliff, see it's clear, and then walk over to pull. It's so simple.


Sigh. P99 has a max draw distance. Models disappear after that draw distance. The pather comes from outside of max draw distance. It is simple indeed. Hopefully you learned something new now. The pather can be a 4+ Dragon, and they have a higher agro radius.


Your first spell should be Malosini, which is not going to be interrupted anyway with its quick cast time. These targets don't need a Malo starter, the other debuff is better and has a good enough chance of landing on its own. You save lots of mana when it gets off 1st cast, and if it doesn't you just kite around a bit and try again. Much better than taking unnecessary rounds of attack and also wasting more mana and cast time midfight to reapply.


This is a very silly suggestion. You waste mana when it gets chain resisted. Malosini/Slow have a higher chance of being resisted without Malo. You Malo first so that way the Slow lands consistently. The most important part of any Torpor Shaman fight is the Pre-Slow phase. Again, you don't know any of this. Due to the amount of pathers and eating AoE's it's not wise to kite above water, and when the mob is in the water you lose line of sight, so you can't cast on the mob without bringing it back out. That would be a big waste of time, which you are apparently trying (and failing) to avoid. I am not sure what "lots of mana" is, the difference between Malo and Malosini is 150 mana. If I have to cast Malosini twice due to a resist, it costs 50 more mana than the single Malo lol.

Finally, in any fight where you can land Malosini consistently... you don't need it lol. Malosini and Slow have the same resist chance. WW Dragons have good resistances, so you do need Malo at least to get them to the point where spells land comfortably. Another sign that you have never fought WW Dragons.


If you draw a line west from Bratavar, that path has less MOBs. It's not hard to start over at the water ledge, run east unvis while avoiding MOBs, stand on top of the westward hill to get a vantage point, and then go pull when you see an opening where the timing is appropriate to run in and out. Instead he is running up from the south central area and just standing there next to Bratavar.


It depends on the pathers at the time. Being invis makes it easier, and pre-summoning the pet doesn't save any significant amount of time. I've tested both methods. You have tested neither, and refuse to provide video evidence proving your theories lol.

Honestly it's really easy to talk big. But you won't actually show what you are capable of. Sorry you don't play P99.

[Zuranthium]

You are a noob. The most important part of any Torpor Shaman fight is the Pre-Slow phase. Again, you don't know any of this


More idiotic strawmans. I know perfectly well. Stop acting like you are smarter or more experienced. You aren't. You're just burying your head in the sand. Classic low rank fool who is scared of thinking there is something wrong with their play, so they don't improve it and stay hard stuck at a lower rank.

Sigh. P99 has a max draw distance. Models disappear after that draw distance. The pather comes from outside of max draw distance. It is simple indeed. Hopefully you learned something new now.

There is no pather that's going to aggro outside the distance you can see. You are not saying anything new, you're simply wrong, and playing like a little kid who can't look around a corner. Also, your own video shows how easily you can see both other dragons in the distance once you get up to the edge, you're just full of shit. And if you're paying attention, then you would already know the pather isn't nearby anyway, before you go down to the water to sit your pet before going back up.

Finally, in any fight where you can land Malosini consistently... you don't need it lol.

Completely wrong. Your other spells are costly and/or take long times to cast. Sticking a Malosini in these fights is a great investment; if it prevents even 1 resist (assuming landing on first try) you have benefited. But it doesn't need to land on first try. If your spells are getting resisted 50% of the time with no Malosini and then only 1% with it, then needing to cast Malosini 3 times in a row before it lands is still a huge investment, as you are preventing a huge number of resists from that mana spent.

I am not sure what "lots of mana" is, the difference between Malo and Malosini is 150 mana. If I have to cast Malosini twice due to a resist, it costs 50 more mana than the single Malo lol.

You cast Malo twice in your other video, because of how slow you kill. That's 700 mana and you're getting less effect out of Malo than Malosini, leading to your spells getting resisted when there's a better chance they wouldn't have if you had Malosini up. You are also taking more damage to cast Malo, because you are getting hit by rounds of attack that you otherwise wouldn't if you had used Malosini and kept running out of melee distance.

Even IF you want to be using Malo at the start of the fight, then you should STILL be casting Malosini after it, as that's 200 mana and more impact as compared to 350 to recast Malo. You especially need to be using it when you're also weaving the poison DoT into fights. Your failure to do so is yet another thing you did wrong in your sad video where you act like you played correctly and proved something (you didn't).

pre-summoning the pet doesn't save any significant amount of time

You are spending a big chuck of mana at the start of the fight by not having pet up, and you lost the time to cast another spell as the Dragon got into your melee range, because you were instead casting pet. What a clown.

[Duik]

Loving the "I can prove my opinions" videos.
Keep forgetting, RnF.
Onward to Insanity, with a blonde!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

More idiotic strawmans. I know perfectly well. Stop acting like you are smarter or more experienced. You aren't. You're just burying your head in the sand. Classic low rank fool who is scared of thinking there is something wrong with their play, so they don't improve it and stay hard stuck at a lower rank.


It's not a strawman, it's a fact. You are not experienced, but you are pretending to be. This thread shows it quite clearly. You need to start playing the game again.

I have no problem with criticism. I would love to learn something from you.

The problem is you are simply responding to this thread because you are mad, not because you have worthwhile information. You just have some weird urge to try and prove me wrong in any way you can, but are failing miserably and showing how inexperienced you are.

Loving the "I can prove my opinions" videos.
Keep forgetting, RnF.
Onward to Insanity, with a blonde!

Videos show reality. Anybody can type walls of text and claim it is the "truth".



There is no pather that's going to aggro outside the distance you can see. You are not saying anything new, you're simply wrong, and playing like a little kid who can't look around a corner. Also, your own video shows how easily you can see both other dragons in the distance once you get up to the edge, you're just full of shit. And if you're paying attention, then you would already know the pather isn't nearby anyway, before you go down to the water to sit your pet before going back up.


I am sorry, but you don't know how pathers work in WW, or how dangerous it can be. Being a bit extra cautious saves more time in the long run. I know you like to try and save time.



Completely wrong. Your other spells are costly and/or take long times to cast. Sticking a Malosini in these fights is a great investment; if it prevents even 1 resist (assuming landing on first try) you have benefited. But it doesn't need to land on first try. If your spells are getting resisted 50% of the time with no Malosini and then only 1% with it, then needing to cast Malosini 3 times in a row before it lands is still a huge investment, as you are preventing a huge number of resists from that mana spent.


Nope. If slow has a 95% chance of landing without Malosini, you don't cast Malosini at all to save mana. Malosini and Slow have the same resist chance, so unless the mob needs another resistance besides Magic lowered, it is a waste of Mana. Your ideas of "wasting mana" and "saving mana" are nonsense.

Malo is the best spell for this fight. I haven't seen a significant difference in resists between Malo and Malosini on WW Dragons, even 6+ Dragons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 . The resist chance numbers you are throwing around for these fights are wrong.


You cast Malo twice in your other video, because of how slow you kill. That's 700 mana and you're getting less effect out of Malo than Malosini, leading to your spells getting resisted when there's a better chance they wouldn't have if you had Malosini up. You are also taking more damage to cast Malo, because you are getting hit by rounds of attack that you otherwise wouldn't if you had used Malosini and kept running out of melee distance.


You didn't read my previous posts. Not surprising. I Malo twice as a habit because some pulls take a long time. It's not the kill. I am not losing any kill speed either, because my DoTs are already ticking. I would rather do it for safety. Again, I have disproven your "more DPS is faster" idea with another video. You are vastly overestimating how much time you think you are saving.

As for your taking damage while Maloing comment, you do know that WW Dragons AoE right? If I was kiting the dragon trying to land Malosini, I would also be taking damage and getting dispelled.


Even IF you want to be using Malo at the start of the fight, then you should STILL be casting Malosini after it, as that's 200 mana and more impact as compared to 350 to recast Malo. You especially need to be using it when you're also weaving the poison DoT into fights. Your failure to do so is yet another thing you did wrong in your sad video where you act like you played correctly and proved something (you didn't).


You don't need to, because as I said above I have tested these fights with Malo and Malosini. Reality is you don't need Malosini. Sorry. You have no data to back up your claims.

I also already disproved your idea that you can "weave" Bane into the fight. It costs too much mana to maintain both Pox and Bane consistently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-PCJ4tCII



You are spending a big chuck of mana at the start of the fight by not having pet up, and you lost the time to cast another spell as the Dragon got into your melee range, because you were instead casting pet. What a clown.

It's not wasting any time to do so. I have tested both methods. You have tested none.

Show us a video of how fast you can kill WW Dragons. I am waiting.

[Danth]

If you're using the disease damage spell then I assume you're also using insidious decay so that's another step worth of sitting-spell swapping--casting and a little more mana use.

The difference in resist rate between malo and malosini on the nest 4's is minimal. The wife uses malo just because it'll definitely land and she's critically allergic to math, but it works fine. On the occasions I'd had her try using malosini I can't say we noticed any great difference beyond it occasionally resisting the first try....that's the kind of thing you're going to need to do a lot of parsing to identify the true value. Those 4's aren't really hard enough to be a good litmus test. Quite often on those 4's the wife slows first, THEN malo's...and truth be told usually it lands anyway.

Neordla is enough of a jerk (tougher than ayillish in my experience, in spite of the on-paper stats looking similar) that malosini is preferred, although typically only after doing malo first.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Did a video using Zuranthium's suggestions, and it played out exactly as I have been describing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Pro4F0B0I

My pet is pre-parked with haste.

The first issue that occurred while making this video is I was blind-sided by multiple mobs as I was cresting the cliff due to not being invisible, and had to gate. More time was wasted than saved due to the lack of invisibility. You can see the Wyvern Huntress attacks in the chat box at the beginning of the video. The reason why this happens is because objects do not block agro line of sight in outdoor zones.

The video shows the reduced visibility that occurs during snowing, and it nicely showcases one of the pathers that can come close to Hechaeva. Luckily it was an Ice Burrower this time, so it won't agro when I pull Hechaeva. It isn't always an Ice Burrower, and if it is a 4+ Dragon you have to wait until it leaves the area.

Malosini was resisted twice before landing, so I didn't "save mana" by not using Malo. I also used Insidious Malady instead of Decay since that is the same principle, and it was resisted once.

Total time saved was 3 minutes. The only reason why the last half of the video is shorter is because I got lucky and Hechaeva ran on to land rather than into the sea. This means I can kill her faster because I can re-apply my DoTs without getting line of sight blocked by the water.

I have another video that is 16 minutes long showing how to kill Hechaeva faster by rooting her instead of letting her run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLhe3KQXke0&t=0s This reinforces the 3 minutes saved compared to my normal strategy, because both were sped up by using spells in the last 20% of her life bar.

When killing WW Dragons for an hour or two, 3 minutes each will not give you enough time back to make another kill when taking into account recovery, running into position, pulling, etc. The riskier nature of this strategy also cost me more than 3 minutes in having to gate and run back.

This is the problem Zuranthium, you are simply thinking in terms of saving time on the kill, without thinking through anything else. As I said earlier in this thread, I could indeed shave a minute or two if I tried harder (these videos are not me trying hard at all), but in the end of the day it's a wash due to other factors. Consistency (Getting 3 kills an hour for example) is better than higher risk strategies that end up losing you a full kill due to bad luck.

The other thing you probably don't realize is my Shaman is fully raid geared. So it's a bit easier for me to attempt a riskier strategy, as I have more methods of reducing incoming damage (higher AC and Resists). Another reason why I prefer my safer strategy when making videos is because other Shamans will probably not have my level of gear. I would rather show a safer and more consistent strategy in my videos that is easier to use for lesser geared Shamans.

[Duik]

It's not a strawman, it's a fact. You are not experienced, but you are pretending to be. This thread shows it quite clearly. You need to start playing the game again.

I have no problem with criticism. I would love to learn something from you.

The problem is ... are.



Videos show reality. Anybody can type walls of text and claim it is the "truth".

Duik says...
My comment was actually at wall of text man. Love me a good video showing clever or stoopid eq stuff.



I am ... like to try and save time.




Nope. If slow....d Malosini on WW Dragons, even 6+ Dragons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 . The resist chance numbers you are throwing around for these fights are wrong.



You ....dispelled.



You don't ...to back up your claims.

I also already disp...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-PCJ4tCII




It's not wasting any time to do so. I have tested both methods. You have tested none.

Show us a video of how fast you can kill WW Dragons. I am waiting.

[Ripqozko]

DSM is basically UCF

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM is basically UCF

Ripqozko is basically *random user*. I can do it too! Sorry nobody cares about your bad Warder loot.

Please keep nonsense in RnF. Thanks!

[oldschoolguy]

I have another video that is 16 minutes long showing how to kill Hechaeva faster by rooting her instead of letting her run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLhe3KQXke0&t=0s This reinforces the 3 minutes saved compared to my normal strategy, because both were sped up by using spells in the last 20% of her life bar.
.

dude that's awesome

[Zuranthium]

If slow has a 95% chance of landing without Malosini, you don't cast Malosini at all to save mana.

Pulling incorrect numbers out of your ass, cool.

And yet you are STILL wrong. If you are in a long fight where Malosini changes the chance of being resisted from 5% to 0%, then it is correct to use it, as stopping even one resist in the whole fight is a net benefit.

As for your taking damage while Maloing comment, you do know that WW Dragons AoE right? If I was kiting the dragon trying to land Malosini, I would also be taking damage and getting dispelled.

Dispelled? So you don't understand what junk buffs are, LOL. And you easily regen the small amount of damage from their AoE (if it even lands) while kiting. Your own videos show you resisting them. This is so sad.

Did a video using Zuranthium's suggestions, and it played out exactly as I have been describing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Pro4F0B0I

The first issue that occurred while making this video is I was blind-sided by multiple mobs as I was cresting the cliff due to not being invisible, and had to gate. More time was wasted than saved due to the lack of invisibility. You can see the Wyvern Huntress attacks in the chat box at the beginning of the video. The reason why this happens is because objects do not block agro line of sight in outdoor zones.

If you were "blind sided" that's simply your own fault of not looking before going down and not using better camera angle when going up. There's no reason to be caught like that. You don't need to gate just because of a Wyvern either, wtf is this? Just root it and camp and log back in.

Your video once again only shows you playing suboptimally. You aren't using Torpor properly, it should be up perma to maintain the engine. You are also dancing around like a clown at the start of the fight. You pull incorrectly as well, why are you constantly spinning around looking at the Dragon to cast? You need to keep your back to them and immediately run forward after casting. You took extra damage for no reason.

Malosini was resisted twice before landing, so I didn't "save mana" by not using Malo.

Yes you did, that's 600 mana, as compared to casting Malo twice, which is 700 mana, and of course you're getting the bigger debuff on top of that. And you took less damage from initial melee, and would have took even less if you had played properly.

Total time saved was 3 minutes. The only reason why the last half of the video is shorter is because I got lucky and Hechaeva ran on to land rather than into the sea. This means I can kill her faster because I can re-apply my DoTs without getting line of sight blocked by the water.

You went 3+ minutes faster this time from the start of fighting the Dragon at pull spot to when the Dragon started fleeing. And that's without even playing it totally correct yet. It wasn't because the Dragon went the other way when fleeing. And about that, you could pull the dragon out of the water right before it flees, to help increase the chance of it staying there.

When killing WW Dragons for an hour or two, 3 minutes each will not give you enough time back to make another kill

3 minutes each is definitely enough time to make another kill if you're playing for a couple hours. It doesn't just have to be time spent in WW though. You can go do other things with that time, including irl.

I also already disproved your idea that you can "weave" Bane into the fight. It costs too much mana to maintain both Pox and Bane consistently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-PCJ4tCII

No you didn't disprove it. You played wrong. And you don't understand the definition of "weave" it seems. You don't need to maintain Bane constantly.

It's not a strawman, it's a fact. I have no problem with criticism. The problem is you are simply responding to this thread because you are mad, not because you have worthwhile information.

LOL, delusional. I'm not responding to anything because I am mad, and I have given countless worthwhile info here. I responded #1) because of your idiocy telling players not to get Bane of Knife, #2) because of your poor play that you model as some kind of top way to play the game.

I am sorry, but you don't know how pathers work in WW, or how dangerous it can be.

Or, you're just not very good. But keep using the incorrect "you don't know how it works" line to people who know better than you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You keep saying "You are playing wrong", but you have no evidence to prove it. Sorry you are just trying to be a contrarian because you are mad:)

I have disproven all of your points. You have yet to prove a single point.

Post more politely next time so you don't look like an asshole on top of looking like a noob.

I am not going to respond to you anymore in this thread until you bring evidence. Anybody who is curious can read the previous posts and see how easily I dismiss all of your "criticisms". I will happily answer other users questions if they are wondering about why your ideas are incorrect.

Back to the original topic at hand, Pox is better than Bane. Bane should be the last spell on your list if you are hurting for money.

[Zuranthium]

You haven't disproven anything. You just continue to ignore the math and points that are made.

It's also a fact that you don't maintain Torpor properly in your videos. It's a fact you are not pulling optimally. It's a fact that you got the Dragon to flee 3+ minutes faster when starting to incorporate the things I told you (even though you're still doing several mistakes). It's a fact you are playing wrong getting caught by a simple wyvern and saying "I have to gate and run all the way back OMG" when you could simply root and camp and relog.

Pox is Level 59 spell, Bane is Level 56. Obviously Pox is the more efficient spell for some SOLO play, but people can't use it for several levels. Bane helps a lot to kill better, not just solo but also for plenty of duo/group situations (where Pox probably sucks), allowing you to level faster and/or farm money better. There are lots of weak group stat buff spells and such that can be avoided to save some money. Bane of Knife is definitely worth getting.

[zelld52]

every single one of these forum posts devolves into these pedantic arguments. you can search google for anything p99 related, and by page 2 its people arguing with each other LOL.

[zelld52]

How do shaman afford to buy their level 55+ spells? Must i pimp myself out? Lol

I saved up every penny I had to buy Torpor, first and foremost. (I had epic already at level 54).

I did not buy Malo, Pox, Bane until after I bought Torpor, because Torpor is the real money-making spell. As long as you've got some time, you can kill just about any plat camp with torpor + curse of the spirits at 60. When you get some cash from that stuff, sell it and buy other spells.

Also -- can join a raiding guild and convince them to hit targets like Harla Dar, get a group for emporer chottal, sebilite juggernauts, protector, etc... Spells also drop frequently in VP.

Theres no easy / short answer. Takes a lot of dedication to be a shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I saved up every penny I had to buy Torpor, first and foremost. (I had epic already at level 54).

I did not buy Malo, Pox, Bane until after I bought Torpor, because Torpor is the real money-making spell. As long as you've got some time, you can kill just about any plat camp with torpor + curse of the spirits at 60. When you get some cash from that stuff, sell it and buy other spells.

Also -- can join a raiding guild and convince them to hit targets like Harla Dar, get a group for emporer chottal, sebilite juggernauts, protector, etc... Spells also drop frequently in VP.

Theres no easy / short answer. Takes a lot of dedication to be a shaman.

I agree, Torpor is at top of the list.

The priority list of expensive spells to buy looks like this. 1 being the best:

1. Torpor
2. Malo
3. Cannibalize 4
4. Spirit of the Howler
5. Pox
6. Bane

The rest of the spells you can't buy from merchants are generally cheap enough, or can be bought whenever.

The only caveat I have to this is if you are saving for Torpor at level 60, you may want to get Malo first. If you are a level 60 Shaman with Malo, you can still get in to money camps like Fungi Tunic camp and Ixiblat Fer without Torpor.