To Hit vs Proc.

[alexandervaccaro]

Does anyone know how stats factor into To Hit and Proc Rate?

Is ATK what determines your hit rate, and STR the only stat which affects ATK?

And likewise for proc rate, DEX is the only stat which affects it? Does DEX affect hit rate? Thanks for info friends-

[baalzy]

STR affects how hard you hit and your ATK which affects how often you hit. Dex affects your proc rate and only your proc rate.

Str = Damage (theres a formula somewhere that determines your max hit dmg based on weapon damage, str & offense skill).
Atk = Chance to hit and how close to your max damage you hit. Atk is modified by your Str.
Dex = Proc rate, thats it.

[Aadill]

High dex does tend to increase chances of hitting and hitting for max for archery, as well.

[baalzy]

High dex does tend to increase chances of hitting and hitting for max for archery, as well.
Dunno if this is true or not. Probably is though.

Dex also affects crit rate on a warrior (crits are essentially a proc). Or crits for bow/thrown daggers for rangers/rogues.

My bad. I should have clarified that I was speaking in just the context of melee attacks.

[Kika Maslyaka]

absolutely nothing affects your chances to hit with melee weapons.
ATK (which is derived from STR and skill) increase the chance of penetrating enemy armor and dealing damage.
The confusing part here is that when you hit for 0 dmg, you see "missed" message, which doesn't reflect what has actualy happened properly. So its not possible to know for sure if you miss the target or you hit for 0 damage

So when people say you hit more often with higher ATK, in fact seeing more non-zero hits, but actual hit chance never increases

[falkun]

Weapon skill doesn't affect your chance to hit? I am enjoying missing with my 0 2HB skill on my bard. Allows me to keep things mezzed while I port, cuz I sure as hell can't tank em.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Weapon skill doesn't affect your chance to hit? I am enjoying missing with my 0 2HB skill on my bard. Allows me to keep things mezzed while I port, cuz I sure as hell can't tank em.

you not missing - you hitting for 0 damage ;)

[falkun]

you not missing - you hitting for 0 damage ;)

Nah, I'd see those numbers. They'd average out to about what I'm hitting now with weapons I have skill for. MMMM, bard DPS. Tastes good, but always leaves you hungry for more.

[Extunarian]

It's been over a year since I've looked and it may have been changed in the p99 branch of the eqemu source...

but IIRC the only thing that your 'hit or miss check' is based on is level difference and the agility of the target.

[greatdane]

absolutely nothing affects your chances to hit with melee weapons.
ATK (which is derived from STR and skill) increase the chance of penetrating enemy armor and dealing damage.
The confusing part here is that when you hit for 0 dmg, you see "missed" message, which doesn't reflect what has actualy happened properly. So its not possible to know for sure if you miss the target or you hit for 0 damage

So when people say you hit more often with higher ATK, in fact seeing more non-zero hits, but actual hit chance never increases

This is exactly right. Nothing on the attacker's end affects hit chance, except of course for weapon skill. The defender's agility is likewise irrelevant except for the miniscule amount of AC it provides. Agility doesn't increase your dodge chance, and its only defensive purpose is the 1AC/3AGI or however much it is.

[Cippofra]

Not sure I understand this. Weapon skill doesn't affect how often you miss according to these explanations. Based on what has been said weapon skill affects how hard you hit only

[greatdane]

Well, I'm not one hundred percent sure because I haven't seen the code, but years and years of experience and general consensus suggests that weapon skill affects chance to hit and damage done, though the latter isn't as linear.

It's true that a succesful hit can deal 0 damage after AC calculations and will then be displayed as a miss. I'm disinclined to believe that weapon skill doesn't affect hit chance at all and that missing often due to low weapon skill is purely because you deal 0 damage with almost every swing.

[Extunarian]

This is exactly right. Nothing on the attacker's end affects hit chance, except of course for weapon skill.

How can you say that explanation is 'exactly right' and then say that weapon skill affects hit chance? Kika stated that "absolutely nothing affects your chances to hit with melee weapons."

[greatdane]

Because the original discussion has to do with stats, mainly dex and str. They don't affect your hit chance.

[Extunarian]

Well kika seems to think that Absolutely Nothing - including weapon skill - affects hit rate.

Like I said I don't know how close the p99 branch is to the public branch of the eqemu source, but that code indicates that level difference, weapon skill of the attacker, and agility of the defender all play a part. This is to calculate whether a hit or miss happens, and the damage mitigation part comes afterward.

[falkun]

It's true that a succesful hit can deal 0 damage after AC calculations and will then be displayed as a miss.

I didn't know that it worked that way. But even if I did 0 damage, wouldn't hitting for any damage, even 0, break mez?

Can weapons proc on "true" misses? Can they only proc on 0-dmg misses?

[Atmas]

I didn't know that it worked that way. But even if I did 0 damage, wouldn't hitting for any damage, even 0, break mez?


Hitting for zero isn't hitting and doing damage. Same concept as how a root is a detrimental action which won't break a mez because it does no damage.

[Extunarian]

I didn't know that it worked that way. But even if I did 0 damage, wouldn't hitting for any damage, even 0, break mez?


You need to inflict damage to break a mez, so a 0-damage "hit" is still a miss for that purpose.



Can weapons proc on "true" misses? Can they only proc on 0-dmg misses?

They can proc on any swing. Hit/miss/zero-damage-hit doesn't play into it.

[Kika Maslyaka]

yeah what was said before- Weapon Skill appears to be increasing your hit chance, but in fact it only improves your 0 damage hits to actual damage
on AGI and Dodge
in modern Emu code AGI DOES contribute to Dodge chance- even thought its TINY.This may or may not be so in classic code.
But in either case, the dodge check is only rolled AFTER you have successfully landed a hit

[aubie]

Not sure about the 0 damage hit (but is logical). Just thought I'd post the definitive damage post originally by Ruatha (inventor of ghetto bash) from steelwarriors:

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1541

[Kika Maslyaka]

the 0-damage=miss is directly from Emu source code - no need to guess =)

[Treats]

Should not be possible to have a hit for 0 damage here. You either hit for minimum damage (1), minimum damage (1) + damage bonus, or miss. If you ever hit for 0, +1 is always added to it.

[Hasbinbad]

You guys should stop bullshitting and start parse-testing and posting results.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Should not be possible to have a hit for 0 damage here. You either hit for minimum damage (1), minimum damage (1) + damage bonus, or miss. If you ever hit for 0, +1 is always added to it.

No. This is not how it works - when you hit for 0 dmg - you hit for 0 dmg- thats it.
When you hit for 1 dmg, THEN and only THEN the damage bonus is added

[Hasbinbad]

You guys should stop bullshitting and start parse-testing and posting results.

[Kika Maslyaka]

and how exactly you going to distinguish between misses and 0-damage hits reported as misses using parses???

[Treats]

No. This is not how it works - when you hit for 0 dmg - you hit for 0 dmg- thats it.
When you hit for 1 dmg, THEN and only THEN the damage bonus is added

You hit NPC. NPC mitigates to under 1. 1 is added to value because you still hit the fuckin NPC (this is done to MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT HIT FOR 0). You don't miss lol. How would you explain hitting for 0.01? Would that still be a miss?

Weapon skill should probably affect whether you hit or miss but this should be done before anything else is calculated. If you hit you hit and if you miss you miss. Its not that complicated.

[Kika Maslyaka]

You hit NPC. NPC mitigates to under 1. 1 is added to value because you still hit the fuckin NPC (this is done to MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT HIT FOR 0). You don't miss lol. How would you explain hitting for 0.01? Would that still be a miss?

Weapon skill should probably affect whether you hit or miss but this should be done before anything else is calculated. If you hit you hit and if you miss you miss. Its not that complicated.

have you seen the source code?

[Dantes]

have you seen the source code?

Yeah that movie sucked.

[Seaweedpimp]

absolutely nothing affects your chances to hit with melee weapons.
ATK (which is derived from STR and skill) increase the chance of penetrating enemy armor and dealing damage.


LOL WRONG

It increase your chance to land a hit... What kind of garbage are you smoking?

[Kika Maslyaka]

LOL WRONG

It increase your chance to land a hit... What kind of garbage are you smoking?

LOL, you must be smoking something very intense I see. Hallucinate much?

[Extunarian]

Kika, please direct me to the source methods that would indicate that the weapon skill is not used to see if we hit or miss...because the 'chancetohit' method that I'm seeing does take weapon skill into account.

//check to see if we hit..
if(!other->CheckHitChance(this, skillinuse, Hand)) {
mlog(COMBAT__ATTACKS, "Attack missed. Damage set to 0.");
damage = 0;
}


You do seem to be correct in saying that hits can be mitigated to 0. It is hard to say for sure though because that part of the calculation goes into methods that I know have been reworked on this server. Either way, in the public code the damage bonus is applied only if the attack was not completely mitigated:

else { //we hit, try to avoid it
other->AvoidDamage(this, damage);
other->MeleeMitigation(this, damage, min_hit);
if(damage > 0) {
ApplyMeleeDamageBonus(skillinuse, damage);
TryCriticalHit(other, skillinuse, damage);
}
mlog(COMBAT__DAMAGE, "Final damage after all reductions: %d", damage);