About red 1.0

[DRAGONBAIT]

We all speak about a red 2.0 and wich ruleset would make it thrive.

Can we all agree that actual red 1.0 ruleset is not that bad and that it would thrive if it was wiped¿? We all know this server didnt do better cos of the exp loss at the start, the numbers when velious launched wasnt that bad.
With actual ruleset, even if not perfect, a restart would put us on 300 average or more during classic kunark and velious.

i would bet for it.

i know restart is not happening tho, just wanted to point it out

[Duvain]

I agree, I actually love the current red ruleset. If a new server had that from the start I'd be all over it.

[Tradesonred]

Yeah, the only thing that fucked up red imo is that first year of xp loss. We started with 600 players on launch (i remember cuz it struck me, like wow looking good) and then by the time devs reacted, removed it, it was single digit pop at nite. Way too late. And a month or 2 later xp was nerfed and half the pop that we gained with removal of xp loss quit. We would maybe get these 600 players for launch, maybe more with people on blue and green bored with the raid/camps work on pve servers and this time, if the server isnt a grief fest like red was for its first year, keep at least part of that.

Realistically, 1.0 setup is good, doesnt require any additional work from devs and should probably be what they go for in a new server. The only thing that sucks with the setup is people will never get to see what a thriving Gfay looks like. You need item loot for that. But item loot needs a revamp if were going to make it work for 2022 and i dont see it happening here.

Teams requires a bunch of meddling to balance things out and dont think devs (bless their hearts) are up for it. It would be fun to try for sure but its a risky gamble where 1.0 setup is a safe bet. P99 never got a pvp server that worked (first with xp loss, then after with its crippled pop) and it would be bad IMO to throw that chance out on a risky setup.

[greatdane]

There were three things that fucked red99 over from the start, in no particular order:

1) Exp loss. I didn't personally mind it, but apparently a lot of people did. I think it's less about the fact that you lose exp in PvP and more about the way it encourages edgelords to go out of their way to grief people because they get off on the knowledge that the other guy lost exp.

2) Horrible custom resist system that completely changed how PvP works. I only played during classic so I don't know if it ever got changed down the line, but it was complete garbage in the beginning. Melee basically wasn't viable because CC would land fairly often even through high MR, and nuking classes were grotesquely overpowered because FR/CR basically just did nothing even if you had 120-150 in them.

3) Absolutely no enforcement of the rules, allowing Holocaust to train people all day until they had no choice but to stop playing because they were literally prevented from doing anything. I recall that some smaller guild managed to kill a Holocaust officer, and Holo's response was to follow that guild around 24/7 and train them endlessly until they genuinely had to quit the server because there's no way to protect yourself from dedicated, systematic training. There will need to be an active GM (or a few).

[EatitNerd]

Resist system on red has proven to be the best of any/all pvp servers.

[Gustoo]

Agreed present resists don’t feel stupid / bad

Zero pop does

[greatdane]

Well, it was trash at launch and drove a lot of players away, so it's still mentioned as one of the reasons for the server's lack of success. The way it worked at launch, no amount of MR would give you more than like 75% chance to resist spells, and root didn't have a chance to break so it would literally always be a full duration root. It was completely unplayable for melee classes. And FR/CR basically just didn't do anything, so wizards, mages and druids could just nuke anyone into the ground. If they changed these things, that's good, but it definitely ruined early PvP.

[EatitNerd]

It wasn’t a reason the server failed. Even after hitting 0 pop the server ended up bouncing back boasting numbers of 350+ for velious, so stop using that as an excuse when you didn’t even know it improved.

[Tradesonred]

It wasn’t a reason the server failed. Even after hitting 0 pop the server ended up bouncing back boasting numbers of 350+ for velious, so stop using that as an excuse when you didn’t even know it improved.

It is the reason the server failed. To be fair i dont know what the composition of the server is right now, toxicity-wise but if all the normal people wouldnt have quit the server wouldnt have become such a cesspool. It became full of these griefy nerds because the way the server was setup up (xp loss) distilled the pop to its griefest. Why i quit was a combination of factors but after finally succeeding in pushing for xp loss removal, sirken goes in and nerfs the xp in pve causing another drop in pop. The last drop was basically the lack of trust i had in the staff to care about the pop numbers for people who remained. Like, why put all this time in a server if staff is going to go out of their way to not care about how fragile the population is.

At least with a restart at 600 pop, with no easy way to make people quit, theres a chance that we could remain a long time around those numbers. If they can make teams work, youll always have the team and you naturally gather when another group invades your zone.

[Tradesonred]

It is the reason the server failed. To be fair i dont know what the composition of the server is right now, toxicity-wise but if all the normal people wouldnt have quit the server wouldnt have become such a cesspool. It became full of these griefy nerds because the way the server was setup up (xp loss) distilled the pop to its griefest. I wouldnt call it a success that the server finally got numbers for its last expansion (i really doubt the 350 figure too)

Why i quit was a combination of factors but after finally succeeding in pushing for xp loss removal, sirken goes in and nerfs the xp in pve causing another drop in pop. The last drop (for me and others im sure) was basically the lack of trust i had in the staff to care about the pop numbers for people who remained. Like, why put all this time in a server if staff is going to go out of their way to not care about how fragile the population is. Watching them leave the server in limbo now just confirms my initial hunch.

At least with a restart at 600 pop, with no easy way to make people quit, theres a chance that we could remain a long time around those numbers. If they can make teams work, youll always have the team and you naturally gather when another group invades your zone.

[DRAGONBAIT]

Server restart as it is would bring numbers up to 300 minimun and stable for a long time. but it wont happen. Best chance we got is that someone serious comes up with some classic database/code and set up a lasting server. Wont happen anytime soon either, but it will happen, and eq classic pvp will thrive again

[Gustoo]

Rogen plz I beg

[starkind]

Just imagine two naked trolls deuling it out with heavy bronze weapons.

That is the perfect pvp server.

[Old_PVP]

Rogen plz I beg

https://i.imgur.com/Y6oacjL.png

[Gustoo]

At least it’sa decent game

[Kokkusho]

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that EverQuest PvP is fringe AF, and almost nobody gives a fuck about it barring a few individuals who still post here daily because they weirdly believe it’s coming.

The toxicity of this player base makes it nearly impossible to garnish new interest from people who want to try it out. Very few people are willing to deal with toxic behavior to play a 23 year old game where PvP was always an imbalanced afterthought. I think it’s safe to say those are the same few who still log in.

Your server isn’t populated for completely understandable reasons. Launching a new server would be fun for 5 minutes, and the boat was missed when Covid had everyone locked indoors.

Also I wouldn’t be surprised if half the player base died because they refused vaccination.

What’s it going to take for you to move on?

[Tradesonred]

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that EverQuest PvP is fringe AF, and almost nobody gives a fuck about it barring a few individuals who still post here daily because they weirdly believe it’s coming.

The toxicity of this player base makes it nearly impossible to garnish new interest from people who want to try it out. Very few people are willing to deal with toxic behavior to play a 23 year old game where PvP was always an imbalanced afterthought. I think it’s safe to say those are the same few who still log in.

Your server isn’t populated for completely understandable reasons. Launching a new server would be fun for 5 minutes, and the boat was missed when Covid had everyone locked indoors.

Also I wouldn’t be surprised if half the player base died because they refused vaccination.

What’s it going to take for you to move on?

Probably Rogean putting his man pants on and announcing that 2.0 is not happening. Red 1.0 tanked because of the initial setup. Nobody wants to pvp with the nerds that stayed in after that, gearing up for 10 years. Im sure theres quite a portion of people lurking waiting to see if 2.0 is going to pop. We will get 300-600 for sure if server ever pops. I am moving on though, its why i made the ruleset thread.

[Gustoo]

Red 1 had ups and downs id play an exact repeat of it even tho there were so many major fuckups.

Red 2 being exact same ruleset as red 1 would also be fine tho ruleset isn’t the best. No one wants a server to become like blue. Red players aren’t gunna stick around when a server reaches terminal status, but that’s fine. Reset and play again. My heart is ready

[Disease]

I think you need to come to terms with the fact that EverQuest PvP is fringe AF, and almost nobody gives a fuck about it barring a few individuals who still post here daily because they weirdly believe it’s coming.

The toxicity of this player base makes it nearly impossible to garnish new interest from people who want to try it out. Very few people are willing to deal with toxic behavior to play a 23 year old game where PvP was always an imbalanced afterthought. I think it’s safe to say those are the same few who still log in.

Your server isn’t populated for completely understandable reasons. Launching a new server would be fun for 5 minutes, and the boat was missed when Covid had everyone locked indoors.

Also I wouldn’t be surprised if half the player base died because they refused vaccination.

What’s it going to take for you to move on?

Beautifully put. I have spoke with Rogean multiple times and a red 2 will never happen. Everybody still playing is enjoying themselves and for some, this server is still new. I would like to thank staff for their commitment to this and all the other servers.

[starkind]

Imagine waiting for 2.0 to start playing on a pvp server instead of a /random take turns bag limits server.

[Gustoo]

Imaging thinking disease ever talked to rogean lol

I did talk to Barack Obama tho and he said he would pull some strings to get mcquaids original server code into my hands so we can have a legit actual server with real live database

[starkind]

Imaging thinking disease ever talked to rogean lol

I did talk to Barack Obama tho and he said he would pull some strings to get mcquaids original server code into my hands so we can have a legit actual server with real live database

Imagine if a president, ex president did this.

We should keep it in house only with the pvp community tho. Don't let bluebies get their grubby little goblinid mittens all over it.

[Gustoo]

Your right about the bluebies

[Worry]

I'd play Red right now if it was reset. On any ruleset. Tbh.

[Duvain]

I'd play Red right now if it was reset. On any ruleset. Tbh.

Same

[A Knight]

I'm still having IRL issues to prevent me from playing. Don't get me wrong, I would love a new Red, but I also don't want to pressure GMs into it, if it fails. But also, it would be cool to have a new red.

I'd be playing blue/green right now if my IRL issues, weren't so bad.

[Barik]

I would genuinely play if red was just wiped, honestly on a pvp server it would be best if it just auto reset every 4 years or so. Side question to the veterans, why won't they just simply reset red and restart it ?

[Tradesonred]

I would genuinely play if red was just wiped, honestly on a pvp server it would be best if it just auto reset every 4 years or so. Side question to the veterans, why won't they just simply reset red and restart it ?

I think its just not how things are usually done here. People dont like their shit wiped so its the model, blue as first pve server, then another one opens up (green).

So here it would likely be red as first pvp server, then orange or purple or whatever. The thing is they said we would have another pvp server 2 years ago, and we got nothing but radio silence since then. Im sure alot of people would play and i dont understand why they cant just do a 5 minutes update like "New red will never happen, IRL issues dont have time for it" or "Its still coming, we dont know when".

With every lurker posting recently that they would play, theres probably X10 that is just waiting for a server to pop or potential word of mouth player. Theres thousands of gamers who do MMOs on something awful forums for example (Goonswarm in eve) and you could probably recruit 50 people just out of a post there of a new EQ pvp server.

[trusken]

ya know unless they have stopped in the 5 or 6 years i have been gone from reds .... yearly a new temoporary red server opens .... so technically they have already made true their statement ... but those servers always die after a few weeks when the new wears off .
oh and people dont like having spent 100s of hours building toon only to have them wiped ... i know it feels "unfair" to play on a server with raid geared people when you are in cloth but thats not their fault and it should drive you to better your character and know your limits

[Tradesonred]

ya know unless they have stopped in the 5 or 6 years i have been gone from reds .... yearly a new temoporary red server opens .... so technically they have already made true their statement ... but those servers always die after a few weeks when the new wears off .


"These servers" dont always die. Red started out with 600 and started bleeding players right away but 95% of that im sure was xp loss in pvp. Theres no reason to think a new red wouldnt retain 300+, maybe more at least into velious. P99 isnt an obscure thing now, im betting we would get more people than the first launch.

The other boxes like vztz are meant to be seasonal, from what i understand and have nothing to do with project 99.

[Tassador]

This post is summed up into one word boring.