Are Cripple spells worth casting?

[busted]

Are the cripple line of spells worth casting?

- https://wiki.project1999.com/Incapacitate
- https://wiki.project1999.com/Cripple

I've scoured the forums for details on this but only found this thread which seems inconclusive https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245858&highlight=cripple+spell

My questions are:

Is cripple line worth casting if you have the mana?
Does it decrease mob damage?
Does it increase dmg done to mob by melee?
Are there situtations/encounters when cripple is useful?

Thanks for coming to my TED talk on cripple. Thoughts & experiences welcome below!

[Skarne]

That's a good question. Looking forward to one of the EQ genius's answer.

[loramin]

On some raid mob sure. Other than that I never wasted mana on the cripple line myself, as it generally seems better to put it into dots or heals.

[Jimjam]

It really depends on what you are fighting and who you are fighting it with.

[busted]

Here was another entry I found: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3143813&postcount=5

To answer the question directly,. no, but!~ Cripple on mobs does HELP!
Cripple = Less damage taken by the players and more damage given by the players.
It should be done to any raid mob it's able to land on.

And some external, potentially out of era, posts like https://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=7550.0

& https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=1592#m110081174636613

I found a parse which indicated Cripple is about 10% effective at reducing DPS. After a 75% slow, thats only another 2-3% less DPS from the mob. Other debuffs like Hand of Ro and Ro's Illumination are much more effective, HoR reduces dps by about 45%

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Still no conclusive evidence. Where ya at DeathsSilkyMist with the deets? ��

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Still no conclusive evidence. Where ya at DeathsSilkyMist with the deets?

Lol I agree with Loramin. Cripple is really only worth casting on certain raid mobs.

Shamans have limited flexibility on their spell bar. Typically speaking you will always have Torpor, Cannibalize 4, Malo, and Turgur's Insects memorized. This leaves only 4 spell slots for Root, Dots, Insidious Decay, and maybe Gate.

Unfortunately the Cripple line of spells simply does not reduce enough damage for it to be worth putting on your spell bar for most situations in Solo/Group play.

Root or another DoT will typically end up reducing more damage in the long run, as you either don't get hit due to the mob being rooted, or you kill the mob faster via the extra DoT. Since the mob dies faster, you take less damage that way.

There may be rare situations where Cripple could work in Solo/Group play, but I have yet to come across it personally.

[Jibartik]

Ive never seen anyone do any damage tables to indicate the difference in cripple vs non crippled mobs.. would love to see that.

in pvp it makes it so you cant walk which is pretty cool, but it'd be cool if it actually made the creatures you were fighting feel different but Ive never noticed anything.

[Toxigen]

Yes, raid mobs. Any chance you can give your tank to not get 1 rounded, the better.

Its bigly on Vulak, for instance.

[greenspectre]

I, for one, use Cripple when doing WW dragons. Once slowed, their combat rounds are slow enough that I can wait for a bash+hit round and quickly mem up Cripple to cast. It's a little risky, but the reduction in hit damage IS noticeable. Then once Cripple has landed, I can wait again for the right time to swap in another DoT or somesuch.

This is easier to do with something like Cliff Golems, where your pet can tank and you can freely swap spells during combat.

Raid wise you want cripple if possible against anything it can land on, most importantly the unslowables like AoW, but really anything that hits hard enough to seriously pressure your tank. Beware though, Cripple generates LOTS of aggro, and i've gotten myself killed on raids trying to cast it 3 or more times, so use it sparingly or at the very least, stand where the tank is when casting, so you don't cause the target to come peeling off after you if you mess up.

[Jimjam]

The -AC -Agility are huge when cast on players and really pump up incoming dps. Is it similarly devastating to NPCs?

[Jibartik]

A good balance fix would be to make it so cripple is a like short durration, very powerful melee debuff to make chanters more viable in groups after you take clarity away from them and give it to wizards.

[oldschoolguy]

only useful in raids, very minor benefit, and only for debuff spread when all else is covered.

optional spell that will not make or break anything.

[Naethyn]

-AC is effectively an extra attack buff for the raid.

[Toxigen]

optional spell that will not make or break anything.

arguable on competitive raids

[eisley]

Cripple is very good for reducing enemy procs, particularly Flurry and Rampage.

[long.liam]

I'd assume there are certrain mobs that this works better on than others. I'm not 100% certrain on this, but I believe all Stats have certrain thresholds that above or below will have either a very large difference or a minimal change on the attack ability/defense etc. For example, Agility below 70 has a pretty huge affect on AC. Above that it's pretty minor and above 110 it's even less of a affect. As I understand, All stats have thresholds like this. The Issue with Cripple, is that by the Time you get the spell most of the Mobs you will be fighting have Base stats in the +200 range for all of them, based of the EQ Magelo Information, so -75 Str to a 255 Str Mob really won't see a huge difference in the incoming damage. I could be wrong and Maybe Magelo is not accurate to P99, but I think this is why Cripple doesn't seem to help much.

[long.liam]

I'd assume there are certrain mobs that this works better on than others. I'm not 100% certrain on this, but I believe all Stats have certrain thresholds that above or below will have either a very large difference or a minimal change on the attack ability/defense etc. For example, Agility below 70 has a pretty huge affect on AC. Above that it's pretty minor and above 110 it's even less of a affect. As I understand, All stats have thresholds like this. The Issue with Cripple, is that by the Time you get the spell most of the Mobs you will be fighting have Base stats in the +200 range for all of them, based of the EQ Magelo Information, so -75 Str to a 255 Str Mob really won't see a huge difference in the incoming damage. I could be wrong and Maybe Magelo is not accurate to P99, but I think this is why Cripple doesn't seem to help much.
Sorry, I typed EQ Magelo, but what I meant was mqemulator.net . This website has mob stat information. I'm not sure how accurate it is or if it even applies to P99.

[Troxx]

I cripple is fairly substantial in both decreasing the damage a raid does and decreasing the damage it puts out. Extra fancy and cutting down on flurries and rampage.

As to whether it’s worth using … that depends entirely on the content. For strong raid mobs where it can land it should always be used. For groups? Nah. It’s not worthless mind you, there are just better choices for your spell bar and even with names mobs they’re gonna die too quickly for it to matter. Possibly for very select content the shaman is trying to duo/solo.


Great spell when warranted but unnecessary for most content.

[Troxx]

Damn autocorrect. It increases its damage taken and decreases damage output.

I hate iPhones

[Danth]

Possibly for very select content the shaman is trying to duo/solo.

We used cripple on Guardian Wurms on the rare occasions the wife and I duo'd those. Can't say whether it helped but we need every advantage on those things. We use it on West Wastes dragons once in awhile but it doesn't feel like it makes any difference against those, definitely not greater than RNG. Might fight one without and need no outside heals, then fight one with cripple on but need two torpors anyway.