Playing p99 with Repetitive stress injury [Archive]

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brobot02

05-12-2022, 05:17 PM

So mouse and keyboard are off the table for me, its just too painful and only gets worse the more i push it, (ive tried several mouse alternatives, none of them work). I would imagine lots of the aging population who play will have this problem eventually. Does anyone have a work around? Ive been trying unsuccessfully to get a controller to work. Is this the end for me? What if lots of people start having this issue? Tough luck? Does the cheat blocker work against xpadder? It doesnt seem to be working for me. This is my favorite game I really hope the devs or community have some options.

Thank you!

Skarne

05-12-2022, 05:29 PM

Physical therapy for a year try again after

brobot02

05-12-2022, 06:52 PM

Physical therapy for a year try again after

I don't have an issue with it unless I'm using keyboard and mouse, they simply are not ergonomic so that wouldn't help thanks tho

brobot02

05-12-2022, 07:31 PM

Go out for a 1000 mile walk. The upper 1/3 of the Appalachian Trail is pretty great and the right time of year is just around the corner. That'll help you break the addiction and walking is so very good for you.

I'm looking for ways to play the game not not play the game, I've spent plenty of time outside, i don't have an addiction i just want to play my favorite game, if you have a suggestion that involves playing without a mouse I'm all ears

brobot02

05-12-2022, 07:52 PM

Nope. If it hurts to play, then you probably shouldn't play.

Yea I'm gonna keep searching for solutions. that doesn't seem reasonable, a whole generation of gamers is going to have this problem soon so just telling them not to play anymore won't work. Could we please stick to solutions please

Skarne

05-12-2022, 10:11 PM

Sry I thought with some rest and gradual exercise ye could improve. If it’s a chronic issue I’m not sure about how to bind EQ controls to a controller.

loramin

05-13-2022, 12:22 PM

Nope. If it hurts to play, then you probably shouldn't play.

This.

I have serious RSI/tendinitis issues, not just as an EQ gamer but also as a programmer. For me using a mouse/keyboard isn't just necessary to game, it's necessary to pay the bills.

But if you're hurting when you try to use them, it means you've injured your body. You can prevent future injury by having proper ergonomics (go buy a good office chair, adjust it properly, buy a keyboard tray, adjust it properly, consider buying an adjustable desk, etc.). You can also help your current injury by icing it and wearing wrist/arm braces to help support it.

All of those are things you can/should do to help you play EQ without injury ... but first you need to take a break for a bit, just to let your injury heal some.

loramin

05-13-2022, 12:26 PM

P.S. You can play EQ with a Steam controller (it has enough buttons and you can bind them to any keyboard key); I've done it. The only tricky part is that (at least on Linux) you have to start the Steam software before running EQ, otherwise it won't work.

But even if you switch, if you don't address your underlying ergonomics problems, you're just going to have new arm/wrist pain within weeks.

Videri

05-13-2022, 02:11 PM

Nope. If it hurts to play, then you probably shouldn't play.

Sry I thought with some rest and gradual exercise ye could improve. If it’s a chronic issue I’m not sure about how to bind EQ controls to a controller.

Guys...OP didn't say he's fat and out of shape, nor that he's gaming too much. OP said he has "repetitive stress injury." His wrists and hands are fucked, presumably from some condition or past injury. You can't solve that with diet and exercise.

The OP asks what hardware and software exists that can enable someone to play P99 without pain. If you don't know, just don't post.

Gustoo

05-13-2022, 02:20 PM

Good luck OP. Game is designed around mouse clicks. So one joystick could be your mouse, one is your forward back strafe left strife right

And figure out a way to macro enough stuff to get by in the game, and a screen angle changer button. It's a lot of buttons even if you get the third party software working

brobot02

05-13-2022, 03:24 PM

This.

I have serious RSI/tendinitis issues, not just as an EQ gamer but also as a programmer. For me using a mouse/keyboard isn't just necessary to game, it's necessary to pay the bills.

But if you're hurting when you try to use them, it means you've injured your body. You can prevent future injury by having proper ergonomics (go buy a good office chair, adjust it properly, buy a keyboard tray, adjust it properly, consider buying an adjustable desk, etc.). You can also help your current injury by icing it and wearing wrist/arm braces to help support it.

All of those are things you can/should do to help you play EQ without injury ... but first you need to take a break for a bit, just to let your injury heal some.

its just simply twist in the wrist to use the mouse that causes stress, chair, desk, supporting it etc dont make any difference, they dont remove the need to twist my wrist to control the mouse. thanks for the input tho, also ive taken years off of gaming and as soon as i use a mouse the pain returns, its simply mouse use that is the problem. I will look into a steam controller tho

plzrelax

05-13-2022, 03:25 PM

brobot02

05-13-2022, 03:28 PM

I have been able to play P99 using my PS4 controller using both joy2key for mapping the buttons and DS4Windows to get the touchpad to work the way I want it to.

My experience with it is mostly messing around with a cleric in unrest. But I think playing a monk or something would have felt more comfortable

recently? and thank you this is exactly the kind of response im looking for. I dont have any RSI from using a controller, only a mouse, using a controller is quite comfortable, I just wasnt having luck getting xpadder to work so this could be an alternative

mcoy

05-13-2022, 03:42 PM

You mentioned the "wrist twist" that makes a regular mouse difficult - have you tried a vertical mouse?

-Mcoy

loramin

05-13-2022, 03:53 PM

its just simply twist in the wrist to use the mouse that causes stress, chair, desk, supporting it etc dont make any difference, they dont remove the need to twist my wrist to control the mouse. thanks for the input tho, also ive taken years off of gaming and as soon as i use a mouse the pain returns, its simply mouse use that is the problem. I will look into a steam controller tho

Sure, but if the angles of all your body parts were correct, your mouse usage wouldn't hurt you. It's the fact that your arm is bent, your wrist isn't straight, or whatever else ... in other words, it's your ergonomics (or lack thereof) that are causing the injury.

As others have said, a more ergonomic mouse (vertical, ball, etc.) could help, but checking your posture, arm/wrist position, leg angle, etc. could also. And yes, I understand the pain isn't in your leg, but if your legs (or any other body part) is positioned incorrectly, your body might move other things (incorrectly) to compensate, indirectly causing your injury.

Basically you want things to look like this:

https://i.imgur.com/74oyUYg.jpg

Jibartik

05-13-2022, 04:05 PM

What if my repetitive stress injury is mental breakdowns from people repeatedly greifing me and steeling my camps is there a cure for that? Asking for a friend (everyone) :(

brobot02

05-13-2022, 04:31 PM

You mentioned the "wrist twist" that makes a regular mouse difficult - have you tried a vertical mouse?

-Mcoy

yes

brobot02

05-13-2022, 04:58 PM

Sure, but if the angles of all your body parts were correct, your mouse usage wouldn't hurt you. It's the fact that your arm is bent, your wrist isn't straight, or whatever else ... in other words, it's your ergonomics (or lack thereof) that are causing the injury.

As others have said, a more ergonomic mouse (vertical, ball, etc.) could help, but checking your posture, arm/wrist position, leg angle, etc. could also. And yes, I understand the pain isn't in your leg, but if your legs (or any other body part) is positioned incorrectly, your body might move other things (incorrectly) to compensate, indirectly causing your injury.

It still wouldn't work, even if your chair, desk, and monitor were perfectly ergonomic, you would still have to hold the mouse palm down, this causes the radius and ulna (the bones in your forearm) to twist around each other, your tendons that control your fingers (for clicking and mouse wheel) then rub against the bones painfully and wear out over time. Vertical/"ergonomic" mice dont help at all, (at least for me, I have tried about 12+ mouse alternatives including mouse bar, vertical mouse, air mouse, presenter pointer, pen mouse, etc) none of these untwist the bones enough to make a difference. Some solutions I can think of would be to design a mouse that can be held palm up, possibly a steam controller (allthough they are expensive) thanks to a reply to my post, or if the devs would allow software like xpadder (i will give joytokey a try)

brobot02

05-13-2022, 08:18 PM

Exercise and physical therapy absolutely are solutions to injury from too much computer use.

If your back is hurting you, then you probably need some squats and deadlifts in your life. I'm not saying you need to become a gym nut, but you know, strong muscles keep the body put together. I know some fatties don't like hearing this, but it's just so.

I do workout and I am in decent shape, I can lift heavy things, write, masturbate, do anything with my hand except use a mouse. On another note it looks like joytokey is blocked as well, I can set up wasd movement on the controller but i cant click anything

Gustoo

05-13-2022, 08:28 PM

plzrelax

05-14-2022, 12:23 AM

I do workout and I am in decent shape, I can lift heavy things, write, masturbate, do anything with my hand except use a mouse. On another note it looks like joytokey is blocked as well, I can set up wasd movement on the controller but i cant click anything

Joy2key doesn’t work well with the PS4 touchpad, if that’s what you’re using. I run DS4Windows at the same time to use the mouse with the touchpad, but it’s still unreliable. I use the sticks to move and look around, and I set a dpad button to sit, move the mouse to an exact point on the screen and click meditate in one press

brobot02

05-14-2022, 09:45 AM

Joy2key doesn’t work well with the PS4 touchpad, if that’s what you’re using. I run DS4Windows at the same time to use the mouse with the touchpad, but it’s still unreliable. I use the sticks to move and look around, and I set a dpad button to sit, move the mouse to an exact point on the screen and click meditate in one press

I'm using a Logitech f310. It works on the desktop and other apps but in game it won't right or left click

mcoy

05-14-2022, 09:56 AM

I'm using a Logitech f310. It works on the desktop and other apps but in game it won't right or left click

By any chance is your p99 install in program files? If you're running p99 as admin, and not the logitech profiler software - it won't work in programs launched from admin mode.

-Mcoy

fastboy21

05-14-2022, 10:30 AM

In all seriousness, I do have a couple suggestions.

1. Use a programmable keyboard/mouse to automate the most repetitive key pushing.
2. Play a class that is largely not "twitch" play --- prob means playing either rogue or cleric or druid or wizard. You don't have to pull, you don't have to switch targets often. If you need a break for a min or 2 the group probably won't notice, much less care.

Depending on the nature of your injury you might try some ergonomic keyboards and mice, but sounds like you've done that already. The gamepad can work, but I wouldn't be able to do that on a complicated class.

If you're in pain after only a couple minutes of playing it might be too difficult. Sorry to hear if this is the case...it sucks when you have to cut down or give up a hobby because of physical age-related reasons.

loramin

05-14-2022, 10:58 AM

1. Use a programmable keyboard/mouse to automate the most repetitive key pushing.

Doing that would violate the rules here:

5. You may not use third-party programs on Project 1999.

The use of any third-party programs on Project 1999, including but not limited to, Macroquest/Macroquest2(MQ/MQ2), ShowEQ(SEQ), or any other program that interacts with the Everquest Titanium Client, is strictly prohibited. Use of any third-party programs will be detected and will result in the permanent banning of your account(s). No exceptions will be made, and once a ban has been enacted for violation of this rule it will not be reversed.

This includes programmable keyboards or other devices that creates multiple inputs for a single keystroke or automated task.

Wineq2 by Lavishsoft is the exception to this rule. In addition, any program that strictly reads log files is acceptable.

fastboy21

05-14-2022, 11:37 AM

Doing that would violate the rules here:

I know. The guy also literally is disabled. Don't be so stupid as to see that isn't a legit exception to the rules by anyone with a heart.

mcoy

05-14-2022, 12:02 PM

I know. The guy also literally is disabled. Don't be so stupid as to see that isn't a legit exception to the rules by anyone with a heart.

There's nothing wrong with making it easier to push a button. The problem is in automating the pushing of said button(s). That said, there should be no need to have a macro to sit, open book, and click meditate because - Verant gave us that. The /meditate command was removed after it was no longer required due to /book existing:

------------------------------
August 30, 2000 8:00 am
------------------------------

*Today's Patch*

Today we modified the EverQuest client to implement the following
changes:

<truncated list>

- Opening your spellbook will automatically cause you to begin
meditating providing that you have the skill.
- Removed the /meditate command since it is no longer necessary.

-Mcoy

Jibartik

05-14-2022, 12:10 PM

Im pretty sure this game has caused permanent damage to my main hand in the form of using a mouse that had a bunch of buttons on the side I used my thumb to press...

I started geting major wrist pain after a few years of using it here, my APM was off the chain lol but now I have extremely painful thumb joint and at night ill get shooting pains that run up my arm.

Its completely isolated to like the thumb joints/tendons etc.. im not doctor, but I sure as hell blame that mouse.

I staunchly object to anyone even suggesting that someone using a way to avoid carple tunnel by prsesing 50,000 button presses in this 20 year old game is NOT breaking the rules.

These game companies could be liable IMO to the damage some of these games cause, a car company would be.

If you;re manually making javs on this server, you're an idiot and you're going to regret it for the last 30 years of your life even if you dont end up divorced over it.

loramin

05-14-2022, 01:35 PM

I know. The guy also literally is disabled. Don't be so stupid as to see that isn't a legit exception to the rules by anyone with a heart.

Having a body part hurt is no excuse to cheat the game. And I say that as someone who is literally using my left hand to move my mouse right now, because I injured my right arm so badly with bad ergonomics recently.

I would LOVE to cheat at EQ and automate everything, and someday if I'm super bored I might do so on one of those six-boxing servers where everyone automates everything. But that is very much NOT P99 and classic EverQuest! If anyone tries to cheat here, regardless of their personal injuries, I hope the staff bans them as they would any cheater.

Jibartik

05-14-2022, 01:37 PM

This is a god damned retirement home you fricken melinial. Youll understand it sooner or later you kids think you're invulnerable.

fastboy21

05-14-2022, 01:38 PM

Having a body part hurt is no excuse to cheat the game. And I say that as someone who is literally using my left hand to move my mouse right now, because I injured my right arm so badly with bad ergonomics recently.

I would LOVE to cheat at EQ and automate everything, and someday if I'm super bored I might do so on one of this six-boxing servers where everyone automates everything. But that is very much NOT P99, and if anyone tries to cheat here, regardless of their personal injuries, I hope the staff bans them.

Yah. I don't agree with this.

If someone loves EQ and HONESTLY has to give it up due to a physical ailment that is just super sad. All because it is unfair to do what 90% of the server is already doing...without being injured.

I hope the ones breaking the rule who are just lazy get banned...not the aging person with crippling arthritis.

Jibartik

05-14-2022, 01:40 PM

Ghost maps with loc markers and direction locators, this guy specifciallly spends records amouont of time contributing to a website with every mob in the game's map and directly links it to ruin the mystery every day and some old veteran cant use automated software to enjoy his youth gettouta town.

loramin

05-14-2022, 01:46 PM

Yah. I don't agree with this.

If someone loves EQ and HONESTLY has to give it up due to a physical ailment that is just super sad. All because it is unfair to do what 90% of the server is already doing...without being injured.

I hope the ones breaking the rule who are just lazy get banned...not the aging person with crippling arthritis.

No one has to give EQ up because of they can't program their keyboard :rolleyes:

If your arthritis is really that bad, programmable keyboards won't help! You still have to press keys frequently on them. But, the vast majority of players with injury issues can take other measures (proper ergonomics, a more forgiving mouse, maybe a gamepad or standing desk, etc.) and play just fine ... without cheating.

And again, I say this as the guy with such bad RSI issues that I literally can't use my right arm to control my mouse right now (without further injuring it).

Jibartik

05-14-2022, 02:18 PM

I cannot craft in everquest full stop.

If your arthritis is really that bad, programmable keyboards won't help

Yes they do they definitly do that's like saying if you have arthritis nothing will help there are all kinds of ways you can help mitigate the hellish life arthritis causes.

You can play games and do anything with arthritis you just should definitely NOT do things like crafting in them or avoid RS in general and taking drugs to dull the ache.

Using cheats is one thing but being realistic that if your server is 10 years old, of a 20 year game, that everyone here is going to need automation eventually to continue to play here.

The best argument I would say you could have agianst that is that you think the youth should be the workers of the kingdom and us old folks should just hire them to make stuff for us.

CerveloFellow

05-17-2022, 08:54 PM

Vormotus

07-18-2022, 06:24 PM

As a gamer in the 50s having spent decades sitting in front of a computer for work, research and still doing it today, one of the many things that saved my life and joints is first having switched to a vertical mouse ...

That alone saved me from the carpal pain.

Second I play from a Lazy boy recliner.

Keyboard and mouse are wireless as well. This helps with the issues of wires which is another anxiety ridden mess.

I also switched from a regular monitor to a huge one (thanks Shawk for your wonderful HUGE Velious UI) to help with the eyestrain.

In a sense I work from a recliner that also has a rolled up towel to give extra neck support.

I know some good chiropractor guys from YT that help with a lot of at home work routines for arms, hands, neck and back as well, from them I began using the small rolled up towel on the recliner and it really improved my life.

Also for the eyes, you need them wet , so use daily every few hours some simple, off the counter eye relief drops that usually moisturize them as you get older, they tend to become dry.

I also have an hydration cycle that keeps me going to the bathroom every couple hours, forcing me to stand up, move around and do a small body warmup exercise to keep the blood flowin plus a daily routine of 20 to 30 minutes of pushups (using only arms if I am too tired, sometimes full body on the days when I am full of energy) usually 1 to 2 hours later when I wake up.

These little things help me keep the rhythm in front of the puter, not only EQ.

They alone are very little, but they do add up when you begin to incorporate them on your routine.

Also walking even in your home or on a machine helps much.

Right now I am replacing my old threadmill of 10 years with a new one, they cost around 500 to 600$ and can be bought refurbished or fully new in small payments. 1 hour daily just walking, nothing fancy, just a walk as I watch netflix or hear music, but if you cant afford one for your home, you can always walk around a bit. Start with 10 min walks to the corner of a near street for example, then come back. My average is about 40 to 50 mins every few days.

Since due to work I am not able to go outside much, I chose the threadmill, but walking per se is free and you can walk around your house block (yes it sux, but you have to get out of the mindset its boring or people will stare at you , or you feel uncomfortable , etc,)

Little things but they all add up considerably, specially when you set your potato body on a sitting position for hours which just to be honest, is super damaging for your body so you have to counteract it somehow.

Self care is important, because trust me, no one else will do it for you and no medicine or expensive surgery will help you if you dont help yourself.

Again, I know some of these things might not be feasible for some due to previous injuries, age or money, but just an idea of what I do to keep being somewhat healthy or staving off further injuries as I play and do everything daily , which involves being in front of a computer for HOURS daily.

A big hug to everybody and hope everyone here can find a solution to keep playing and escaping the harsh reality of life for bursts in this wonderful game or the internet in general.

I know personally a co worker that has one of those fancy keyboards that looks like a hand and he does everything from it to the side as he rests the arms on a side table next to his chair so all he does is move his fingers so I know solutions out there exist, just have to keep digging.

His keyboard looks like this:
https://i.imgur.com/klWx0Yu.jpg

There are also some other options like these keyboards as well that are specially for people with disabilities:

https://i.imgur.com/F9I8tOv.jpg

And lastly if finger moving is the problem, these help as well:

https://i.imgur.com/jdtbbNI.jpg

If Hands in general are the issue, there are feet keyboards as well:

https://i.imgur.com/wiYW0xQ.jpg

For mice I found this, which is an option too, the Yarko mouse:

https://i.imgur.com/AWN9vs9.jpg

Also for regular disability mice there are the classic old good reliable track ones:

https://i.imgur.com/EwZZREU.jpg

Hope this helps man.

Be well!

Jibartik

07-18-2022, 07:04 PM

i bought one of those MMO mice to play MMOs and using my thumb to cast spells I think caused permanent damage.

be careful out there (inside)

Vormotus

07-18-2022, 10:41 PM

i bought one of those MMO mice to play MMOs and using my thumb to cast spells I think caused permanent damage.

be careful out there (inside)

I believe you because regular mice , on the horizontal plane are totally anti-ergonomic.

The constant pressure of the thumb while your hand is in the unnatural position of a normal mouse only exacerbates the damage further.

I switched to vertical mice about 5 years ago and I no longer suffer from chronic wrist pains as before.

https://i.imgur.com/CeM1rOe.jpg

Though this image is for the evoluent one, which is one of the most expensive, most companies, even Logitech have their own select line of vertical mice.

And they truly truly make a difference.

Anyone using normal mice for long sessions at the computer is only asking for more and more damage in the future to their arm/wrist joints.

https://i.imgur.com/cfgSLHq.jpg

You have to remember, and ask any physician that specializes in joints, that the most normal and relaxed position for your hand is the "shake hands with another" position. The vertical mouse does this as you can see.

Again, though, I know some people due to body/arm/composition or plain stubornness dont like them, but they are usually young people or people that work in a certain way have trouble relearning.

Like I always say, buy 2 or 3 cheap vertical mice and see how they handle.

Due to my work I usually consume a mouse about every year, year and a half, same with keyboards, so I am switching constantly and have found that vertical mice are now cheap enough and come in so many varieties that you can afford to buy a few of them to try.

I buy cheap 20 buck ones off amazon and gladly pay premium to have them delivered to where I live as most computer stores dont even know they exist.

But am always selling the idea to other people and the few that have bothered to listen cant live without them anymore.

Again, your mileage may vary but they have been amazing for me, specially after I had to have a wrist strap for a while and it was driving me crazy until someone told me about them.

Lifebar

07-20-2022, 07:51 AM

Just hook up a DDR mat.

strongNpretty

07-20-2022, 12:47 PM

It's time to put P99 on the Oculus Quest 2... I'm ready to turn my own home into Norrath.. Chop chop smart people, make this happen please.

Castle2.0

07-20-2022, 02:15 PM

Play a monk or warrior. Use foot pedals. Problem solved.

Maybe some inspiration here? https://www.twitch.tv/nohandsgamer

loramin

07-20-2022, 02:22 PM

It's time to put P99 on the Oculus Quest 2... I'm ready to turn my own home into Norrath.. Chop chop smart people, make this happen please.

It's only a demo, but ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsplhgwcYZo

vsplhgwcYZo

strongNpretty

07-20-2022, 02:50 PM

It's only a demo, but ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsplhgwcYZo

vsplhgwcYZo

Shut the front door!!!! I'll toss this guy money, NOW!

sinvern

07-20-2022, 11:44 PM

I do workout and I am in decent shape, I can lift heavy things, write, masturbate, do anything with my hand except use a mouse. On another note it looks like joytokey is blocked as well, I can set up wasd movement on the controller but i cant click anything

Trackball mouse doesnt require any wrist movement, works well for my injury.

Vormotus

07-24-2022, 01:40 AM

Trackball mouse doesnt require any wrist movement, works well for my injury.

I believe trackballs are the key here.

I posted a pic of some disability enabled ones, they are much bigger than commercial ones and more sturdy.

You can find these here:

https://advopps.org/these-ergonomic-mice-are-on-the-ball/

This is an example of how to buy one

https://www.kensington.com/p/products/control/trackballs/expert-mouse-wired-trackball/?r=1

Pretty self explanatory. The advops page has buy links for all the disability enable trackballs, some of them are actually quite big and offer extra functionality

Loiterius

07-27-2022, 05:05 PM

Hi folks,

Saw this post and thought I would make a video around my recommendation for how to reduce clicks and mouse movement. I have used VoiceAttack for a number of years for a variety of reasons and I've loved it. With it, you can turn verbal commands into key press/mouse movements. It's fantastic, and I highly recommend giving it a try.

It works incredibly well with EQ!

Here is the link to the software:
VoiceAttack website (https://voiceattack.com/)

My video on setting it up with EverQuest:
View the video here (https://youtu.be/6-IyQCy57Fc)

Loiterius

07-27-2022, 06:12 PM

I've since taken down the video due to its potential to get you banned. Sorry, folks.

Vormotus

08-05-2022, 06:35 PM

Leopaz

08-06-2022, 09:07 AM

what about learning to play with your other hand???

Loiterius

08-06-2022, 11:28 AM

Nice info! :D

I once heard of Voice Attack, but years ago I think, I remember someone using it for Elite Dangerous for a fully voice activated experience, but yeah, this is quite good! :D

Ha! That’s exactly how I learned about VA as well.

Just be aware it is illegal for P99. Talked to the project team and they said they won’t allow it due to potential for extra workload.