Would I be stupid to want to roll a second pally?

[Loadsamoney]

I have a 51 Dwarf Paladin, halfway to Epic (need to get a book of Scale, kill Miragul, and do turnin for Fiery Avenger), but I love the class so much, and after learning of another weapon, I'm tempted to make a second one alongside it.

As opposed to my melee Dwarf Pally with Brell, this one would be a Tunare-worshipping High Elf, and would play on high Wisdom as opposed to raw Strength/Stamina, and it would use Nature's Defender once acquired. Tanking would still be the dominant role, but this Paladin would give up raw battle prowess to focus more on the magic side, and hopefully make a decent pinch healer with the higher mana pool.

Am I stupid to even consider this?

[Danth]

How are you stupid for doing what you like? The entire point of the game is to have a good time. I have three paladins on my account, and two shadow knights.

Danth

[Loadsamoney]

How are you stupid for doing what you like? The entire point of the game is to have a good time. I have three paladins on my account, and two shadow knights.

Danth

Not all the same race I hope. I would never play an ogre SK. Troll first pick, DE second.

But I was just concerned about playing a duplicate class and it coming up in a conversation later and some neckbeard being like "Why do you have two Paladins? Why do you even have ONE?"

[Jimjam]

If you enjoyed levelling one you’ll likely enjoy levelling another. Once they are similar level you can park them at different camps so you can play where you feel on the day / where is free. You can also play around with starting stats, gearing strategy, etc.

If you have them on separate accounts you can play one without worrying about running down a rez timer on another.

You can revisit old haunts you’ve outgrown.

If it is fun for you go for it.

[Loadsamoney]

If you enjoyed levelling one you’ll likely enjoy levelling another. Once they are similar level you can park them at different camps so you can play where you feel on the day / where is free. You can also play around with starting stats, gearing strategy, etc.

If you have them on separate accounts you can play one without worrying about running down a rez timer on another.

You can revisit old haunts you’ve outgrown.

If it is fun for you go for it.

Take one into a dungeon like The Hole, keep the other at Paineel as a cash farmer or something.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you like the leveling process, go for it! There is nothing wrong with leveling the same class multiple times if you enjoy it. There are plenty of people who do.

Natures defender and a bit more wis won't significantly change your playstyle though, if that was your idea. Clickies, procs, and flowing thought are how you save mana. Being able to cast two or three more spells via 30 more WIS won't make or break you generally. I would advise just focusing on your current character if you want to play a paladin with a heavier focus on spell casting. Save up for some of the more expensive clickies, proc weapons, and Narandi Crown.

[Loadsamoney]

If you like the leveling process, go for it! There is nothing wrong with leveling the same class multiple times if you enjoy it. There are plenty of people who do.

Natures defender and a bit more wis won't significantly change your playstyle though, if that was your idea. Clickies, procs, and flowing thought are how you save mana. Being able to cast two or three more spells won't make or break you generally.

I still want to get at least Fiery Avenger on my Dwarf Pally, but one, it's hard finding someone selling a Book of Scale, and two, I don't know if I can get a group together to go kill Miragul.

He's on a 7-day timer, and for all I know he could be constantly tagged the second he goes up. And I'm not sure if his head/robe can be MQ'd.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I still want to get at least Fiery Avenger on my Dwarf Pally, but one, it's hard finding someone selling a Book of Scale, and two, I don't know if I can get a group together to go kill Miragul.

He's on a 7-day timer, and for all I know he could be constantly tagged the second he goes up. And I'm not sure if his head/robe can be MQ'd.

I am not too familiar with the Paladin Epic, but I believe it is one of the easier Epics to complete. If you are in a guild it shouldn't be too tough to get a group together for Miragul. If you hang around Vox/Nagafen when they are killed you could ask the guild who kills them to sell you the book. Most guilds only care about SoulFire, which don't need the books.

If your concern is you want an easier epic, then a Tunare Paladin isn't a bad option. I am just saying Nature's Defender + 30 WIS or so will not change your playstyle. You won't really be able to cast more spells. If you want to do that, you need to invest in your Paladin to get Proc Weapons, Clickies, and Flowing Thought I and II. Those will give you a lot more mana to play with.

[Loadsamoney]

I am not too familiar with the Paladin Epic, but I believe it is one of the easier Epics to complete. If you are in a guild it shouldn't be too tough to get a group together for Miragul. If you hang around Vox/Nagafen when they are killed you could ask the guild who kills them to sell you the book. Most guilds only care about SoulFire, which don't need the books.

If your concern is you want an easier epic, then a Tunare Paladin isn't a bad option. I am just saying Nature's Defender + 30 WIS or so will not change your playstyle. You won't really be able to cast more spells. If you want to do that, you need to invest in your Paladin to get Proc Weapons, Clickies, and Flowing Thought I and II. Those will give you a lot more mana to play with.

I'd be content to complete Fiery Avenger, and I'm not far away from it, to be frank. I have both SoulFire and Ghoulbane, and maxed Deepwater Knights faction. What I need is a Book of Scale to do Miragul, and then make the turn-in on PoS.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'd be content to complete Fiery Avenger, and I'm not far away from it, to be frank. I have both SoulFire and Ghoulbane, and maxed Deepwater Knights faction. What I need is a Book of Scale to do Miragul, and then make the turn-in on PoS.

I think you should be able to swing that without too much effort. Probably less effort than re-leveling 1-50. Start reaching out to some guilds, see if they are interested in selling you the books, and maybe even a kill team. Guilds like money.

[Loadsamoney]

I think you should be able to swing that without too much effort. Probably less effort than re-leveling 1-50. Start reaching out to some guilds, see if they are interested in selling you the books, and maybe even a kill team. Guilds like money.

I have almost the 20k on my ranger so I can probably afford it. But I want to know from someone more informed than myself if the Miragul head/robe can be MQ'd (I.E turned into Inte Akera by someone else, and the pally can still get Fiery Avenger).

[Philistine]

I agree with everyone else! If it sounds fun do it!

[PatChapp]

I still want to get at least Fiery Avenger on my Dwarf Pally, but one, it's hard finding someone selling a Book of Scale, and two, I don't know if I can get a group together to go kill Miragul.

He's on a 7-day timer, and for all I know he could be constantly tagged the second he goes up. And I'm not sure if his head/robe can be MQ'd.
I don't know about blue,but on green miragul is usually up for hours after it spawns.

Any raiding guild can get you the books

[Barlu]

I made a High Elf Pally based on how cool the Natures Defender looks and how accessible it was. At level 60 I absolutely regret my race decision and would have gone with pretty much anything else.

It is difficult to max strength and stamina on a high elf, and as was previously mentioned the extra wisdom isn’t usually going to make or break a situation. You are also almost never going to be a healer in group play. A Deepwater BP can do a decent job of recovering and is amazing for solo, but it is better in a duo or trio than a full group.

High Elf is definitely the min max choice, and the charisma is nice for lulls, but your starting tanking stats are really bad. If I decided to gear my pally more maybe I’d feel differently, but it’s a significant investment you’ll have to make.

[Loadsamoney]

Well, if I eventually go for it, I would do it by buying a full set of Tigeraptor armor for my Ranger (5k for a full set shouldn't be too bad), then his gear could go towards the new Paladin, mostly Crystal Chitin with Silver Chitin wristbands, and a couple items from my Dwarf Pally.

The only concern is the low starting strength, and I'm superstitious about starting below 75 with any primary stat, so I'd probably use my bonus points to get both Str and Sta up to 75, and my base Dex up to 75 too, just to shore up the High Elf's starting weaknesses.

I'm actually considering Half Elf too, but that butthole Wisdom score is very offputting. Why do Half-Elves have such crap Wisdom to begin with? And why does every caster/hybrid class they can play, excluding Bard, use Wisdom as its primary mana stat, while their decent 75 Int gets wasted?

[Danth]

Why do Half-Elves have such crap Wisdom to begin with?

Apparently in-game they're supposed to have a tendency towards rash and impulsive behavior, reflected by their low wisdom score. There's also apparently bigotry against them, hence why none of the churches will ordain them as clerics. It's a hard life being a half-elf, I guess.

[Loadsamoney]

Apparently in-game they're supposed to have a tendency towards rash and impulsive behavior, reflected by their low wisdom score. There's also apparently bigotry against them, hence why none of the churches will ordain them as clerics. It's a hard life being a half-elf, I guess.

High Elf seems the clear pick then.

If you tally up their starting stats vs Dwarf Pally, they actually have higher stats overall than Dwarf, 572 vs 558. So I think there would be enough separation between HE Pally vs Dwarf Pally to make it interesting.

Wouldn't be for a while though, not until I level up my Druid to at least 44, preferably to 46 and complete the Epic. As opposed to Ranger, Druid Epic is actually one that I feel confident about being able to finish, even if I have to MQ it, since the running around aspect is so easy for Druids with their porting.

[sajbert]

A suggestion would be to go more on the lull-side with heavy investment into charisma. With the glamour sword clicky a high elf that went full cha doesn’t really need any charisma gear and can comfortably invest in strong melee gear. A dwarf even with full cha will probably want some cha pieces on switch for lulls and without pts into cha it’s probably not worth bothering unless maybe you have godly gear.

HE is the superior choice in my view, good wisdom too. That said, female dwarfs are the coolest.

[Barlu]

High Elf is 35 less strength and 25 less stamina than a dwarf at the loss of 12 Wisdom and 35 charisma. Starting with 65 strength and 70 stamina is really rough and makes it very difficult to max even when fully buffed.

Also, I understand the appeal of the charisma from a lull perspective and it def contributed to me rolling a high elf. However, you use basic root until you get Enstill at 54. If you are dungeon crawling before lvl 54 you don’t really want to try to lull a room with more than 3 mobs in it because a Crit resist is going to mean you will have a hard time rooting and camping it all off in the 48 seconds root lasts. Sure some dungeons you have a zone line near by, but with no Feign Death or gate it’s a tough situation. If you are really twinked taking 3 mobs isn’t so bad up until a point, but there is definitely some levels between when that happens and before you get Enstill that will limit what you can do. I solo’d all the way to 60 and enjoyed it, but something to consider if this is a second pally and your first isn’t 60.

High Elf no doubt the min/max choice, but I would go Dwarf if you aren’t expecting to get to lvl 60 or a lot of raid gear.

[Loadsamoney]

High Elf is 35 less strength and 25 less stamina than a dwarf at the loss of 12 Wisdom and 35 charisma. Starting with 65 strength and 70 stamina is really rough and makes it very difficult to max even when fully buffed.

Also, I understand the appeal of the charisma from a lull perspective and it def contributed to me rolling a high elf. However, you use basic root until you get Enstill at 54. If you are dungeon crawling before lvl 54 you don’t really want to try to lull a room with more than 3 mobs in it because a Crit resist is going to mean you will have a hard time rooting and camping it all off in the 48 seconds root lasts. Sure some dungeons you have a zone line near by, but with no Feign Death or gate it’s a tough situation. If you are really twinked taking 3 mobs isn’t so bad up until a point, but there is definitely some levels between when that happens and before you get Enstill that will limit what you can do. I solo’d all the way to 60 and enjoyed it, but something to consider if this is a second pally and your first isn’t 60.

High Elf no doubt the min/max choice, but I would go Dwarf if you aren’t expecting to get to lvl 60 or a lot of raid gear.

I already have a 51 Dwarf Pally, that's what the point of this thread was, because I'm considering a second pally, and it would for sure be High Elf. I just wanted to inquire about the redundancy of making a duplicate class.

But the enjoyment factor aside, I think there's enough difference between a Brelldwarf Pally and a TunareHE Pally to make it an interesting ride.

[Barlu]

What I was getting at is your Tunare High Elf Pally isn’t going to really be any different than your current Pally except worse overall. If you want to roll a second one go for it l, but it will be a redundant experience with a weaker character.

[Loadsamoney]

What I was getting at is your Tunare High Elf Pally isn’t going to really be any different than your current Pally except worse overall. If you want to roll a second one go for it l, but it will be a redundant experience with a weaker character.

You just said High Elf is the Min/Max choice though.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You just said High Elf is the Min/Max choice though.

Even though it is the Min/Max choice, it often takes a long time for the Min/Max choice to really matter. Min/Max usually assumes you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear (or close to it). In that case, even a low STR/STA race like High Elf will be maxed out in STR and STA. The benefit to being a High Elf when you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear is that gear tends to give a ton of STR and STA, but doesn't give as much WIS and CHA. By going High Elf, you end up with higher WIS and CHA compared to a dwarf with the same Best in Slot Velious raid gear.

[Loadsamoney]

Even though it is the Min/Max choice, it often takes a long time for the Min/Max choice to really matter. Min/Max usually assumes you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear (or close to it). In that case, even a low STR/STA race like High Elf will be maxed out in STR and STA. The benefit to being a High Elf when you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear is that gear tends to give a ton of STR and STA, but doesn't give as much WIS and CHA. By going High Elf, you end up with higher WIS and CHA compared to a dwarf with the same Best in Slot Velious raid gear.

Well the odds of me ever having BiS raid gear is effectively zilch. My end-game goals for a character are usually Epic + Thurgadin Armor OR Planar armor.

[Gustoo]

If you tally up their starting stats vs Dwarf Pally, they actually have higher stats overall than Dwarf, 572 vs 558. So I think there would be enough separation between HE Pally vs Dwarf Pally to make it interesting.
.

I want to comment on the starting stats thing.

If you remove intelligence, a totally useless stat for a paladin in every way, you have 480 points in the high elf, and 498 points in the dwarf. 325 high elf and 338 dwarf if you also remove dex and agility (dwarf has really high dex)

Just saying, the only thing you really miss is the charisma and if you haven't had trouble with your lulls you probably wont. Some people prefer to be able to use critical lull resists to pull anyways.

high elf is one of the worst paladin race choices until they are end game velious geared. It takes a lot of top gear to make up for having pitiful melee stats.

Even a half elf with all points to wisdom would be better. They can still worship tunare can't they? Way better strength way better dex almost the same charisma, terrible wisdom.

But for normal people, dwarf is arguably the best choice. A lot of people would go human because they have decent melee stats and aren't gimped in charisma or wisdom. That would probably be the race i recommend to you if you did wanna roll a second one.

But id say, only do it for the fun of leveling again, not to change what you can do with your class, which won't happen by changing a few starting stats.

[Loadsamoney]

I want to comment on the starting stats thing.

If you remove intelligence, a totally useless stat for a paladin in every way, you have 480 points in the high elf, and 498 points in the dwarf. 325 high elf and 338 dwarf if you also remove dex and agility (dwarf has really high dex)

Just saying, the only thing you really miss is the charisma and if you haven't had trouble with your lulls you probably wont. Some people prefer to be able to use critical lull resists to pull anyways.

high elf is one of the worst paladin race choices until they are end game velious geared. It takes a lot of top gear to make up for having pitiful melee stats.

Even a half elf with all points to wisdom would be better. They can still worship tunare can't they? Way better strength way better dex almost the same charisma, terrible wisdom.

But for normal people, dwarf is arguably the best choice. A lot of people would go human because they have decent melee stats and aren't gimped in charisma or wisdom. That would probably be the race i recommend to you if you did wanna roll a second one.

But id say, only do it for the fun of leveling again, not to change what you can do with your class, which won't happen by changing a few starting stats.

The main reason would be for access to Nature's Defender. No Bash, but 45AC on a weapon is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it's considered shield AC like I've been told, and thus ignores the AC cap. FD still beats it overall, but I've heard ND is the 3rd best tanking weapon for a Tunare Pally.

[Crede]

The main reason would be for access to Nature's Defender. No Bash, but 45AC on a weapon is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it's considered shield AC like I've been told, and thus ignores the AC cap. FD still beats it overall, but I've heard ND is the 3rd best tanking weapon for a Tunare Pally.

That’s your sole reason? A bit silly imo. ND is a cool wep with nice stats but garbage ratio

FD looks sweet on a dorf, just farm what pp you need to buy the mqs and enjoy having superior stats over HIE until velious end game which who cares at that point you’ve already won.

[Lampolo]

How are you stupid for doing what you like? The entire point of the game is to have a good time. I have three paladins on my account, and two shadow knights.

Danth

This explains a lot

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That’s your sole reason? A bit silly imo. ND is a cool wep with nice stats but garbage ratio

FD looks sweet on a dorf, just farm what pp you need to buy the mqs and enjoy having superior stats over HIE until velious end game which who cares at that point you’ve already won.

The ratio on Nature's Defender isn't that bad. It's a 0.825 ratio, and Fiery Defender is a 0.875. Not a huge gap between the two. Ratio-wise both are meh compared to NToV weapons, which aren't difficult to get. But if your goal is stopping at something like Fiery Defender, Nature's Defender isn't a bad stopping point either.

[Crede]

The ratio on Nature's Defender isn't that bad. It's a 0.825 ratio, and Fiery Defender is a 0.875. Not a huge gap between the two. Ratio-wise both are meh compared to NToV weapons, which aren't difficult to get. But if your goal is stopping at something like Fiery Defender, Nature's Defender isn't a bad stopping point either.

I was referring to the context here that he wants to start a new race for an ND when if anything he should just focus on finishing the FD on his dwarf if he wants something with similar stats. Both are pretty bad weapons though ratiowise.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I was referring to the context here that he wants to start a new race for an ND when if anything he should just focus on finishing the FD on his dwarf if he wants something with similar stats. Both are pretty bad weapons though ratiowise.

Agreed, Nature's Defender isn't good enough to merit re-rolling at this point, unless he really loves leveling Paladins.

[Loadsamoney]

Agreed, Nature's Defender isn't good enough to merit re-rolling at this point, unless he really loves leveling Paladins.

I do, actually. lol

But I'm also concerned that even if I get a Book of Scale (which I can afford now), I still wouldn't be able to get the Miragul pieces I need because he's on a 7-day timer and contested by guilds trying to epic their Pallies.

Which is why I need to know if the Robe/Head can be MQ'd too.

[Andyman1022]

Though I’ve never tried to do the MQ, I’m sure it can be done. It would require both parties to have the appropriate faction though. I honestly don’t see why anyone would go thru the trouble of spawning and killing Miragul with the intention to sell the MQ. Find some friends to help you kill him, he is super easy for a solid group of level 60s. Don’t re roll for natures defender. Most everyone else in this post got it right.

[Tunabros]

you have to remember paladins are like the one of most leasted played classes

even more than wizards

back on blue, i did my entire paladin epic in like 2 weeks

even when soulfire wasnt nerfed yet, the entire epic is easy

now on blue, i doubt there are many paladins trying for their epic

[Loadsamoney]

you have to remember paladins are like the one of most leasted played classes

even more than wizards

back on blue, i did my entire paladin epic in like 2 weeks

even when soulfire wasnt nerfed yet, the entire epic is easy

now on blue, i doubt there are many paladins trying for their epic

I was told Miragul is killed within a few hours of spawning usually.

[Tunabros]

he has a nice robe that casters like to have

[Loadsamoney]

he has a nice robe that casters like to have

Well, I think instead of buying a Book of Scale now, I'll try to save up another 10k or so and see if I can just MQ his head/robe, or organize a pick-up group to go kill him when I know hes up and can pay them, before I commit to a 20k purchase that I might not be able to do anything with.

He's really the only bottleneck right now though, since I have SoulFire, Ghoulbane, and maxed Deepwater Knights faction. But I don't know his spawn cycle (when he is expected to pop again) nor do I have any friends I can organize at a moments notice. That's the problem.

[Tunabros]

the best bet for you would be to join a guild and attend a raid that drops the book

im guessing your paladin is still lv 52 based on your signature? you should be able to

kill dragons like naggy and hopefully the book will default to you

[Loadsamoney]

the best bet for you would be to join a guild and attend a raid that drops the book

im guessing your paladin is still lv 52 based on your signature? you should be able to

kill dragons like naggy and hopefully the book will default to you

Nah, I don't think the guild thing is working for me. I've been part of three guilds now, one I was exited from because of a lengthy hiatus due to my old computer bricking, and the other two, by virtue of their raid schedules clashing with my work schedule, just didn't work for me. Nice bunch of folks though, all of them. I wish them the best.

In any case, rather than hunting for the next guild and wasting everyones time, I'm just going to take a passive line and wait for one to come to me. If someone is interested in me at some point, say after a group session tanking in The Hole, they'll extend an offer to me.

But yeah, my Pally is still 51, haven't played him in a year since I rolled Ranger, and am focused on my Druid right now.

[Tunabros]

well you dont have to raid to be in a guild. there are guilds for raiding and guilds for

casual gameplay. I'm sure you can join a guild like castle or ex astra.

[Loadsamoney]

well you dont have to raid to be in a guild. there are guilds for raiding and guilds for

casual gameplay. I'm sure you can join a guild like castle or ex astra.

You just named two of the three I was part of. I didn't want to say names because I don't want to look like I'm throwing shade. They were all nice guys, didn't do me any wrong, just didn't work for me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You just named two of the three I was part of. I didn't want to say names because I don't want to look like I'm throwing shade. They were all nice guys, didn't do me any wrong, just didn't work for me.

Yeah unfortunately on P99 your guild decision does affect the loot you can get. All guilds are mostly filled with nice people. There isn't any guild on P99 I dislike personally. But you have to choose between playing with a certain group of people, or getting the loot you want. Typically you can't have both, unless you also like the group of people in a more successful guild. Or you try and change the guild you are in to raid more.

[Loadsamoney]

Yeah unfortunately on P99 your guild decision does affect the loot you can get. All guilds are mostly filled with nice people. There isn't any guild on P99 I dislike personally. But you have to choose between playing with a certain group of people, or getting the loot you want. Typically you can't have both, unless you also like the group of people in a more successful guild. Or you try and change the guild you are in to raid more.

I juat can't raid on weekends unless it's very late, and Sky/Hate/Fear are the ones I want to focus on. But I got my first taste of a raid fight last night with VS, and it was...very, very scary how quickly he dropped us. Never been one-shot at Level 49 before, 350x2 + 1500 proc and my life flashed before my eyes.

So after that, not sure if I'm even the type that's cut out for raiding, if all major raid fights are like that and death comes that instantaneously. Maybe 6-mans in a perilous dungeon would be more comfortable for me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I juat can't raid on weekends unless it's very late, and Sky/Hate/Fear are the ones I want to focus on. But I got my first taste of a raid fight last night with VS, and it was...very, very scary how quickly he dropped us. Never been one-shot at Level 49 before, 350x2 + 1500 proc and my life flashed before my eyes.

So after that, not sure if I'm even the type that's cut out for raiding, if all major raid fights are like that and death comes that instantaneously. Maybe 6-mans in a perilous dungeon would be more comfortable for me.

In this specific case you were simply too low level for VS. Level plays a huge role in resistances. I don't think it's because you aren't "cut out". If you were level 60 it would have felt and played out different. And luckily the mobs you need to kill (Vox/Nagafen) are designed for players more in your level range. That is why you can't fight them past level 52. So if you joined a bigger raid guild, they would probably be fine with you just showing up to Vox/Nagafen. They need more low level raiders for those encounters anyway lol.

[Loadsamoney]

In this specific case you were simply too low level for VS. Level plays a huge role in resistances. I don't think it's because you aren't "cut out". If you were level 60 it would have felt and played out different. And luckily the mobs you need to kill (Vox/Nagafen) are designed for players more in your level range. That is why you can't fight them past level 52. So if you joined a bigger raid guild, they would probably be fine with you just showing up to Vox/Nagafen. They need more low level raiders for those encounters anyway lol.

What do you mean you can't fight them past Level 52? The game hardblocks you from being able to attack them or something?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What do you mean you can't fight them past Level 52? The game hardblocks you from being able to attack them or something?

Yes. Lady Vox and Nagafen specifically have a mechanic where if you attack them, and you are above level 52, you get teleported away. Players above level 52 can still heal and buff the players attacking the dragons, but they cannot directly attack the dragon themselves.

[Loadsamoney]

Yes. Lady Vox and Nagafen specifically have a mechanic where if you attack them, and you are above level 52, you get teleported away. Players above level 52 can still heal and buff the players attacking the dragons, but they cannot directly attack the dragon themselves.

Ah, interesting. I wouldn't want to hardcap a character a specific level just for those encounters though...at least not my Paladin. MAYBE my Ranger for tracking, but that's not even a distant thought for me right now.

[Allishia]

Yes. Lady Vox and Nagafen specifically have a mechanic where if you attack them, and you are above level 52, you get teleported away. Players above level 52 can still heal and buff the players attacking the dragons, but they cannot directly attack the dragon themselves.

Cannot heal or buff anyone that is on the aggro table, will instant port them before the buff or heal land /nod

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ah, interesting. I wouldn't want to hardcap a character a specific level just for those encounters though...at least not my Paladin. MAYBE my Ranger for tracking, but that's not even a distant thought for me right now.

Oh I am not saying you should stay at 52 forever. But since you are 51 right now, you could join a bigger guild and raid Vox/Nagafen when you can. You are quite useful for those encounters since you are in the level range, and the bigger guilds no longer have attendance requirements.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Cannot heal or buff anyone that is on the aggro table, will instant port them before the buff or heal land /nod

Yes, I should have specified that. Good catch.

[Loadsamoney]

Yes, I should have specified that. Good catch.

I actually might considering capping my Druid at Level 51 for that. 51 Druid gets Superior Heal, I can DPS with Starfire/Drifting Death and Epic when I get it, Group Regen and DS, and Druid's 125 Tracking might be enough to help with finding them.

Though I'd have to stipulate that I'd only go for Lady Vox IF I'm allowed to roll/bid on White Scales for a future Bard.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I actually might considering capping my Druid at Level 51 for that. 51 Druid gets Superior Heal, I can DPS with Starfire/Drifting Death and Epic when I get it, Group Regen and DS, and Druid's 125 Tracking might be enough to help with finding them.

Though I'd have to stipulate that I'd only go for Lady Vox IF I'm allowed to roll/bid on White Scales for a future Bard.

In a bigger raid guild you can bid on anything if you were there for the kill generally. However, if you only casually raid, you will probably never get enough DKP to outbid a more active raider for White Scales, and there is always at least one person bidding a good amount of DKP on that item, due to it's rarity.

Also, the cap is 52. You can fight them at level 52, but not at 53+.

[Loadsamoney]

52 only adds Breath of Ro, though I guess that stacks with Drifting Death.

Either way, I made this Druid mainly for cash farming and porting services, so no need to level it too high. Likely I'm just going to add it to Dial-a-Port.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

52 only adds Breath of Ro, though I guess that stacks with Drifting Death.

My point was more that you could continue leveling your Palading to 52 at least before considering stopping progression. Assuming your signature is correct.

[Loadsamoney]

My point was more that you could continue leveling your Palading to 52 at least before considering stopping progression. Assuming your signature is correct.

It is correct, and I could, but I wouldn't want to do it with a Paladin. The spells on the way to 60 are too juicy.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It is correct, and I could, but I wouldn't want to do it with a Paladin. The spells on the way to 60 are too juicy.

Again, I am not saying to stop leveling your Paladin:) I am saying that you could join a guild right now at your level and continue playing normally too. You would only need to consider stopping if you are leveling really fast. Based on your current progress, my assumption is that even getting to 53 is going to take you some time. But yes, if you are going to level your Paladin quickly, then using your Druid would make sense:)

[Loadsamoney]

Again, I am not saying to stop leveling your Paladin:) I am saying that you could join a guild right now at your level and continue playing normally too. You would only need to consider stopping if you are leveling really fast. Based on your current progress, my assumption is that even getting to 53 is going to take you some time. But yes, if you are going to level your Paladin quickly, then using your Druid would make sense:)

I doubt anyone would want a Paladin or an SK to tank a dragon, gotta be Warrior or nothing in that situation I'd imagine.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I doubt anyone would want a Paladin or an SK to tank a dragon, gotta be Warrior or nothing in that situation I'd imagine.

At level 52 tank class doesn't matter too much, because Warriors don't get their good disciplines that allow them to tank better until higher level. Even if they did have their disciplines at 52, a Paladin would still be additional DPS against the dragon. Lady Vox/Nagafen really aren't that difficult, so even lower DPS classes make a difference. Also, because the fight is level capped, it's always nice to have more bodies that can actually fight the dragon.

[Loadsamoney]

At level 52 tank class doesn't matter too much, because Warriors don't get their good disciplines that allow them to tank better until higher level. Even if they did have their disciplines at 52, a Paladin would still be additional DPS against the dragon. Lady Vox/Nagafen really aren't that difficult, so even lower DPS classes make a difference. Also, because the fight is level capped, it's always nice to have more bodies that can actually fight the dragon.

Well, Druid can do a lot at 52, so I'll have something to think about at that point.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Small correction, Warriors do get Evasive at 52, they don't get defensive until 55. So yeah a Warrior with Evasive would probably still be better than an SK/Pal, but again you would still be welcome for the DPS, and maybe you would still end up tanking if nobody has a 52 War available, or they die.

[Danth]

Given the drop rates off nagafen and vox, and the difficulty of getting them at all--only a few guilds really try, let alone win--most players will save the platinum to buy a book of scale before they'd get the pieces as drops. It stays relatively affordable due to the small paladin population on P1999. I definitely wouldn't recommend retarding your leveling progress in hopes of getting one. You can also get the burnt and frost books as drops off Talendor and Gorenaire meaning that option does stay open in some fashion. In truth I have never seen a level 60 paladin on P1999 who didn't have the epic except by choice (some folks don't care or want it). Don't fret it overmuch. Level 51 is pretty early for the epic train. There's a big difference in what you and your friends will do even with another half-dozen levels, let alone at 60.

If you want to make a second paladin, make it because you like playing the class, not because you think it'll play all that much differently. The paladin's races all play about the same aside from their different starting areas. They all level at the same rate, all have broadly similar faction alignments, and none of them have potent racial innates like regeneration or slam. Even their stats are relatively close; EQ's a "big numbers" game and 10 of something here, 15 there isn't a large difference. Main things you'll notice is dwarves have a slightly harder time with lulls while high elves and erudites struggle a bit with carry capacity at first. It's not a dramatic difference in style like there is between, say, a troll versus dark elf shadow knight.

Danth

[Loadsamoney]

Heh, maybe the Naggy/Vox thing actually gives me more incentive to make another Paladin later. Take my Dwarf Pally to 60 and get his Epic at some point, make a High Elf Pally, get ND, and keep it at Level 51-52 forever.

[Toxigen]

I'd probably pick a class not played yet...but whatever.

You're overthinking it. You and DSM make great pals.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'd probably pick a class not played yet...but whatever.

You're overthinking it. You and DSM make great pals.

People ask questions on forums to get answers. Sorry you don't understand how forums work.

[oldschoolguy]

don't waste your time, pick another class, learn another class. way more fun.

otherwise why have 2 of the same thing?

[starkind]

You can't have enough pally alts and if one dies in pvp u can just log the other one in :p

[wagorf]

nothing dumb to do something you enjoy, people always forget the purpose of gaming

but if you expect a whole different experience by rerolling a different race, then it's not happening. i think this is what most people are trying to point out.

[Loadsamoney]

Visiting this idea again, everything I have on my ranger would suit a paladin well, and I'm intending to scrap my ranger and transfer its funds to my existing Dwarf Pally anyway. After playing a Druid I find I like that a lot more than my Ranger, surprisingly.

For High Elf Paladin starting stats, is it recommended I go full 20 Sta, or can I spread it around to shore up weaknesses? My thoughts were to put 10 into Str, 5 into Sta, and 5 into Dex, then they'd all be 75 with no negative scores. Use SotM, Ghoulbane and Baton of Faith until I'm 46, then MQ Nature's Defender and I'd be set from that point on.

[Toxigen]

Visiting this idea again, everything I have on my ranger would suit a paladin well, and I'm intending to scrap my ranger and transfer its funds to my existing Dwarf Pally anyway. After playing a Druid I find I like that a lot more than my Ranger, surprisingly.

For High Elf Paladin starting stats, is it recommended I go full 20 Sta, or can I spread it around to shore up weaknesses? My thoughts were to put 10 into Str, 5 into Sta, and 5 into Dex, then they'd all be 75 with no negative scores. Use SotM, Ghoulbane and Baton of Faith until I'm 46, then MQ Nature's Defender and I'd be set from that point on.

I went max CHA and stuck to the highest ZEM dungeons (warrens --> perma --> CT --> etc) and used calm / paci all the damn time.

Also will want a few big cha items to go with your kit if you're going the solo dungeon route.

[Loadsamoney]

I don't suppose dumping 20 into Wis to max out my mana pool is an option for a HIE Pally?

[Toxigen]

I don't suppose dumping 20 into Wis to max out my mana pool is an option for a HIE Pally?

y tho?

You'll never really be constrained by your total mana pool, but rather your mana regeneration.

Most people go STR for swing dmg. I never once regretted the CHA, but I min/maxed and twinked the hell out of my paladin.

[Loadsamoney]

y tho?

You'll never really be constrained by your total mana pool, but rather your mana regeneration.

Most people go STR for swing dmg. I never once regretted the CHA, but I min/maxed and twinked the hell out of my paladin.

How is CHA the min/max route though? I don't really use Lull much since I do the bulk of my leveling on Paineel guards. The only thing I can figure is to max the chance of DI working?

If I'm going to commit to a second paladin, I want it to be statistically different enough from my Dwarf Pally for its playstyle to deviate.

Edit: The Discord is saying CHA is the min/max route too, mainly because, with BiS gear, a HIE Pally with base stats can still reach the caps.

I guess that decides it then. 20 into CHA, and just survive with crap Str/Sta/Dex.

[Toxigen]

How is CHA the min/max route though? I don't really use Lull much since I do the bulk of my leveling on Paineel guards. The only thing I can figure is to max the chance of DI working?

If I'm going to commit to a second paladin, I want it to be statistically different enough from my Dwarf Pally for its playstyle to deviate.

Edit: The Discord is saying CHA is the min/max route too, mainly because, with BiS gear, a HIE Pally with base stats can still reach the caps.

I guess that decides it then. 20 into CHA, and just survive with crap Str/Sta/Dex.

Well if your plan is to just farm guards you don't really need it.

I maxed CHA because I solo dungeon crawled. Efficiency came from having to cast fewer lulls / calms / pacis, and also not having those crit resist bringing more mobs than desired.

I stuck to the super high ZEMs (Warrens --> Perma --> CT --> Kedge --> Hole) where splitting out singles from packs was a requirement.

Again, I was mega twinked. Mileage may vary.

[Loadsamoney]

Well if your plan is to just farm guards you don't really need it.

I maxed CHA because I solo dungeon crawled. Efficiency came from having to cast fewer lulls / calms / pacis, and also not having those crit resist bringing more mobs than desired.

I stuck to the super high ZEMs (Warrens --> Perma --> CT --> Kedge --> Hole) where splitting out singles from packs was a requirement.

Again, I was mega twinked. Mileage may vary.

The way I see it, I'm conflicted between four options for starting points:

A: 10 Str, 5 Sta, 5 Dex
B: 20 STA
C: 20 WIS
D: 20 CHA

[PatChapp]

You will have the biggest struggle with stamina. Wis not too important, cha you can gear swap. Str easiest stat with buffs

[Jimjam]

It doesn’t sound like charisma will ever be relevant to you. Go str for carrying guard loot. Unless you are gonna try faction with Heretics first?


What level is your ranger and what gear is he wearing? Maybe make a magelo with the gear your paladin will wear and see where you think it needs to put its starting stats into?

[Loadsamoney]

It doesn’t sound like charisma will ever be relevant to you. Go str for carrying guard loot. Unless you are gonna try faction with Heretics first?


What level is your ranger and what gear is he wearing? Maybe make a magelo with the gear your paladin will wear and see where you think it needs to put its starting stats into?

Full Crystal Chitin set
Silver Chitin Wristband x2
Orc Fang Earring x2
Chipped Velium Amulet
Sash of the Dragonborn
65HP Rings x2
Obulus Death Shroud
Crystal Spider Eyes
White Bear Hide Cloak (have this on my dwarf pally, would transfer, Ranger has Dire Wolf Hide Cloak)

I would max Deepwater Knights faction by farming Elial Brook, then I'd start the Heretics grind in Warren to get a key into Paineel, then level on guards there until 51.

[Vexenu]

It's honestly not worth rolling a High Elf just for ND and higher CHA. You can carry a bag full of +CHA gear and put it on for extremely risky lull attempts (and note that +CHA gear is very cheap and very plentiful, you can literally get over 100 CHA in just a few items and jewelry. You can get +45 CHA from a Crude Stein and Kobold Jester Crown alone, and the Luminary Two handed sword that procs Glamour is another +30 CHA). Most of the time you lull it will be for convenience pulls and getting an add or two won't be a matter of life and death. Dwarf Pally is perfectly serviceable with low CHA.

[Loadsamoney]

It's honestly not worth rolling a High Elf just for ND and higher CHA. You can carry a bag full of +CHA gear and put it on for extremely risky lull attempts (and note that +CHA gear is very cheap and very plentiful, you can literally get over 100 CHA in just a few items and jewelry. You can get +45 CHA from a Crude Stein and Kobold Jester Crown alone, and the Luminary Two handed sword that procs Glamour is another +30 CHA). Most of the time you lull it will be for convenience pulls and getting an add or two won't be a matter of life and death. Dwarf Pally is perfectly serviceable with low CHA.

Honestly I'm willing to level another pally just because I love pallies, despite how few people play them. I just want my HIE Pally to be varied enough statistically from my Dwarf Pally to have at least a slightly different playstyle (I.E can do the pulling in a group, or even be a secondary healer). Also, one would do light raiding (I.E Fear/Hate), while the other would be a money farmer in Paineel or some other Undead zone where the mobs are walking mucho dinero.

Hence why I am considering 20 WIS, as capping WIS is not easy and I could use that extra mana not just for healing, but for undead nuking as well. But giving up 20 Stamina is a big asking price too.

Tough decision.

[Vexenu]

Honestly I'm willing to level another pally just because I love pallies, despite how few people play them.

This is a perfectly valid reason to roll a new Pally. However, I think you will be disappointed if you expect the High Elf to play much differently than the Dwarf. Basically, the only difference you're likely to notice is that you're much more easily encumbered due to the low STR (even with twink gear it will be noticeable).

Honestly, if you want to the sort of "battle healer" vibe, you'd be better off rolling a Dwarf Cleric and twinking with a lot of STR, AC and haste gear, or an Ogre Shaman. I had a Dwarf Cleric with melee gear and leveled him solo mostly meleeing until around level 40. Works way better than you'd expect. A Shaman can face tank/melee decently even longer thanks to slow, DoTs and pet.

[Loadsamoney]

This is a perfectly valid reason to roll a new Pally. However, I think you will be disappointed if you expect the High Elf to play much differently than the Dwarf. Basically, the only difference you're likely to notice is that you're much more easily encumbered due to the low STR (even with twink gear it will be noticeable).

Honestly, if you want to the sort of "battle healer" vibe, you'd be better off rolling a Dwarf Cleric and twinking with a lot of STR, AC and haste gear, or an Ogre Shaman. I had a Dwarf Cleric with melee gear and leveled him solo mostly meleeing until around level 40. Works way better than you'd expect. A Shaman can face tank/melee decently even longer thanks to slow, DoTs and pet.

I'm not against rolling a High Elf Cleric either, but is it worth playing one at end-game if I don't intend to raid, or raid heavily anyway? At the very least, I don't want to be responsible for a 24-man wipe if one of my CH's is late because of lag.

If that's a possibility as a raiding cleric, I don't want to play one.

As far as gear goes, Crystal Chitin probably still works well, but I'd want a Sarnak Devastator as my weapon, and maybe a Silvery Belt of Contention too.

[Vexenu]

I'm not against rolling a High Elf Cleric either, but is it worth playing one at end-game if I don't intend to raid, or raid heavily anyway? At the very least, I don't want to be responsible for a 24-man wipe if one of my CH's is late because of lag.

If that's a possibility as a raiding cleric, I don't want to play one.

As far as gear goes, Crystal Chitin probably still works well, but I'd want a Sarnak Devastator as my weapon, and maybe a Silvery Belt of Contention too.

Cleric is still very useful and fun outside of raids. Excellent in groups and one half of the most powerful duo in the game (Enc/Clr). Sarnak Devastator would be a lot of fun to level with. But you could also just grab a Poison Wind Censer or Velium Brawl Stick. Silvery Belt would also be nice, but you'd be just as good with Silver Chitin Handwraps if you're primarily meleeing. Also Dwarf is your best bet if you want to level a Cleric with melee, but you could also do a Halfling or Gnome (of Brell-Serilis) to take advantage of the excellent Imbued Dwarven Plate armor set: https://wiki.project1999.com/Dwarven_Breastplate_(Enchanted_Imbued)

I think my Battle Cleric Dwarf had around 200 STR, massive AC and HP, and FBSS haste. Leveled mostly solo in Kurns/Unrest/CoM fighting undead with melee and occasional undead nukes. Felt like a Paladin but with less damage and more healing power.

[Loadsamoney]

Cleric is still very useful and fun outside of raids. Excellent in groups and one half of the most powerful duo in the game (Enc/Clr). Sarnak Devastator would be a lot of fun to level with. But you could also just grab a Poison Wind Censer or Velium Brawl Stick. Silvery Belt would also be nice, but you'd be just as good with Silver Chitin Handwraps if you're primarily meleeing. Also Dwarf is your best bet if you want to level a Cleric with melee, but you could also do a Halfling or Gnome (of Brell-Serilis) to take advantage of the excellent Imbued Dwarven Plate armor set: https://wiki.project1999.com/Dwarven_Breastplate_(Enchanted_Imbued)

I think my Battle Cleric Dwarf had around 200 STR, massive AC and HP, and FBSS haste. Leveled mostly solo in Kurns/Unrest/CoM fighting undead with melee and occasional undead nukes. Felt like a Paladin but with less damage and more healing power.

I have a Dwarf Pally already so I'd want racial diversity, with no duplicate races (Iksar Monk, Troll SK, Ogre Warrior, Barb Shaman, etc). High Elf is the min/max choice for Cleric I'm assuming, with all points into Wisdom and 5 into Sta? Or is Cha still the way to go for a Cleric?

What I'm thinking:

Crystal Chitin set
Obulus Death Shroud
Crystal Spider Eyes
Silvery Belt of Contention
Withered Leather Bracers, Gorget and Cloak
Sarnak Devastator
Crystal Chitin Shield
Sarnak Prayer Beads
65HP Rings x2
Earring of Purity
Earring of Cleansing

I already have about half of this, the rest would run me approximately 10k or so, and I have about 30k to burn across my toons.

[Crede]

The way I see it, I'm conflicted between four options for starting points:

A: 10 Str, 5 Sta, 5 Dex
B: 20 STA
C: 20 WIS
D: 20 CHA

I went 20 WIS on my paladin. Regretted every minute of it as a casual soloer.

I'd probably do what Toxigen did and go with a 20 CHA human paladin build, but that's because I'd specifically be going in the hardest dungeons I could find.

For you, I'd just go 20 strength. Even as a heavy twink, it's no cakewalk to max strength for a solo build.

[Toxigen]

It's honestly not worth rolling a High Elf just for ND and higher CHA. .

It is if you have no plans / capabilities of doing the epic. Absolutely baller weapon for a cheap Hate mq. Tossup between mixed race or pure elf though, just depends on fashion preference.

My twinked human paladin max cha (see signature) was an absolute hoot leveling 1-55. I felt like I had to slam DS pots constantly once I moved from Cazic Thule to Kedge because no matter how you slice it paladin DPS is pure shit...but the only other char I felt safer on was my monk. IIRC that character never died but one time in the hole but I made the mistake of grouping with some less experienced folks. Came to a slog grind after that and I just stopped playing altogether anyway.

[Vexenu]

If you want to level as a Battle Cleric and don't want a Dwarf I'd go Brell Serilis Halfling and use the Dwarven armor for the massive AC and STR/STA. No reason to play a High Elf Cleric if you want to melee. And again, there's not much reason to focus excessively on CHA. It's shockingly easy to raise CHA temporarily for risky lulls with just a handful of cheap items.

[Jimjam]

Is Brell gnome possible to wear dwarf armour with the more handy tinkered clickies?

Iirc halflings follow the church of mischief - not brell.

[Loadsamoney]

If you want to level as a Battle Cleric and don't want a Dwarf I'd go Brell Serilis Halfling and use the Dwarven armor for the massive AC and STR/STA. No reason to play a High Elf Cleric if you want to melee. And again, there's not much reason to focus excessively on CHA. It's shockingly easy to raise CHA temporarily for risky lulls with just a handful of cheap items.

The melee really only matters until about level 37 or so. At that point the next step up in Paineel guards hit too hard for melee to be efficient anymore, and I'd resort to purely Undead Nukes + Root by then.

Once Guard Pendleir stops giving me exp, the melee no longer really matters. Unless of course I'm duoing with someone, or I have full mana in a group and nothing else to do.

[Vexenu]

The melee really only matters until about level 37 or so. At that point the next step up in Paineel guards hit too hard for melee to be efficient anymore, and I'd resort to purely Undead Nukes + Root by then.

Once Guard Pendleir stops giving me exp, the melee no longer really matters. Unless of course I'm duoing with someone, or I have full mana in a group and nothing else to do.

Yeah, it's not worth meleeing even with a very twinked Cleric past 40 or so. Race is not a huge deal on a Cleric, so if you're dead set on a High Elf you can make it work.

[PatChapp]

Is Brell gnome possible to wear dwarf armour with the more handy tinkered clickies?

Iirc halflings follow the church of mischief - not brell.

Gnome can wear the tinkered armor, it isn't diety specific

[Elizondo]

If you go High Elf dump everything into Wisdom

Your base CHA is already good and with Cultural Armor and a Crude Stein you're good to go

STR is ridiculously easy to raise and cheap to do so

120 Base Wisdom for a Paladin can't be beat

[Loadsamoney]

Yeah, it's not worth meleeing even with a very twinked Cleric past 40 or so. Race is not a huge deal on a Cleric, so if you're dead set on a High Elf you can make it work.

If I didn't have a Dwarf Pally already I'd consider it, but if Charisma is really the min/max path, then doesn't that automatically rule Dwarf out of being a min/max choice because of their asscrack Charisma score?

[Vexenu]

If I didn't have a Dwarf Pally already I'd consider it, but if Charisma is really the min/max path, then doesn't that automatically rule Dwarf out of being a min/max choice because of their asscrack Charisma score?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold_Jester%27s_Crown
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crude_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Velium_Necklace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Seahorse_Spine_Bracelet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein

+87 CHA from 6 cheap items (one's even free) . Throw them on when you're in the rare situation where a failed lull is guaranteed to kill you. Keep them in the bag the other 99.99% of your playtime when you aren't that worried about it, and prioritize much more valuable stats like WIS, HP, mana, AC, etc...

CHA is not a dump stat but it's extremely overrated in importance for Paladins and Clerics given how cheap and abundant +CHA gear is and how rarely you actually NEED to maximize it to survive.

[Loadsamoney]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold_Jester%27s_Crown
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crude_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Velium_Necklace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Seahorse_Spine_Bracelet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein

+87 CHA from 6 cheap items (one's even free) . Throw them on when you're in the rare situation where a failed lull is guaranteed to kill you. Keep them in the bag the other 99.99% of your playtime when you aren't that worried about it, and prioritize much more valuable stats like WIS, HP, mana, AC, etc...

CHA is not a dump stat but it's extremely overrated in importance for Paladins and Clerics given how cheap and abundant +CHA gear is and how rarely you actually NEED to maximize it to survive.

Then why are people recommending it over Sta or Wis? Is there any reason other than because it's easy enough to max Sta/Wis without dumping bonus points into it?

[Troxx]

High Elf tunare sword is worth it

I only banked it for NToV spear Luck

[Vexenu]

Then why are people recommending it over Sta or Wis? Is there any reason other than because it's easy enough to max Sta/Wis without dumping bonus points into it?
I think it's a combination of people not realizing how cheap and easy it is to acquire a set of CHA gear, and people overestimating how often a critical lull would be fatal. And then of course some people make all their recommendations assuming your character at 60 with full NToV gear and raid buffs (not realistic or useful for most players).

[Jimjam]

Starting stats are best allocated considering low level / undergeared play. This also means considering what stats are most useful on a corpse run.

Charisma is a great choice in that regard as often CRs will involve stealthing back into camps with no charisma gear to swap to.

[Vexenu]

Starting stats are best allocated considering low level / undergeared play. This also means considering what stats are most useful on a corpse run.

Charisma is a great choice in that regard as often CRs will involve stealthing back into camps with no charisma gear to swap to.

But how often are you really going on perilous naked CRs , requiring you to lull your way through a dangerous dungeon solo, naked and with no assistance?

Versus how often do just get your corpse dragged by a Rogue/Monk/SK or worst case summoned by a Nec?

It doesn't make sense to prioritize a stat that you rarely need like CHA, compared to one like STA or WIS (or even STR for a High Elf) that you get more direct benefit from.

[Crede]

Then why are people recommending it over Sta or Wis? Is there any reason other than because it's easy enough to max Sta/Wis without dumping bonus points into it?

Because if you're soloing in dungeons, you will lull. Gear swapping is annoying and will still leave you in a charisma deficit. And at 45 you get clicky lull so might as well capitalize on that.

I went STA on my SK, and regretted it. It's useless, unless you're in a Cheal chain.

I went WIS in my Pally, it's pretty useless as pallies mostly heal with DW bp/helm. I'd rather have a higher chance of crit success then maybe getting off one more HoT at 59 with the extra WIS.

If you plan to be mostly casual, don't plan to do much dungeon soloing, then honestly STR is probably your best bet. It will take a long time for a casual high elf to max strength, even with thurg gear/yaulp 4.

TLDR: Starting stat points will never have an objective answer nor will really make any truly noticeable difference. Pick the one that caters to your playstyle.

[Loadsamoney]

Because if you're soloing in dungeons, you will lull. Gear swapping is annoying and will still leave you in a charisma deficit. And at 45 you get clicky lull so might as well capitalize on that.

I went STA on my SK, and regretted it. It's useless, unless you're in a Cheal chain.

I went WIS in my Pally, it's pretty useless as pallies mostly heal with DW bp/heal. I'd rather have a higher chance of crit success then maybe getting off one more HoT at 59 with the extra WIS.

If you plan to be mostly casual, don't plan to do much dungeon soloing, then honestly STR is probably your best bet. It will take a long time for a casual high elf to max strength, even with thurg gear/yaulp 4.

TLDR: Starting stat points will never have an objective answer nor will really make any truly noticeable difference. Pick the one that caters to your playstyle.

My playstyle is that I don't start grouping until 51 onwards, as levels 13-51 are all about cash farming the most efficient spots for me so I can gear up along the way. That happens to be Nybright Sisters until 19, grinding Warrens for a Paineel key, then Paineel Guards until 49-51, resulting in about 500pp/level from 19 onwards.

But when I do start grouping, I want to be as flexible/useful to my group as possible, both in my designated role and in side-roles, if I'm asked to do something else.

[Vexenu]

I went STA on my SK, and regretted it. It's useless, unless you're in a Cheal chain.

I went WIS in my Pally, it's pretty useless as pallies mostly heal with DW bp/heal. I'd rather have a higher chance of crit success then maybe getting off one more HoT at 59 with the extra WIS.


Keep in mind you didn't just get the direct benefit of STA or WIS, you got the benefit of being able to more flexibly itemize the rest of your gear because those stats were already more pumped up at creation. Since you don't need as much STA or WIS from gear, you can prioritize AC, HP, or whatever.

It may just come down to preference. I never found swapping in CHA gear on my Pally for dangerous lulls that much of an annoyance, since it wasn't that frequent an occurrence.

[eqravenprince]

I'm curious how the second pally is turning out. Do you prefer dwarf or high elf after playing both?

[Loadsamoney]

I'm curious how the second pally is turning out. Do you prefer dwarf or high elf after playing both?

I haven't made it yet, and honestly I might not do it at all now. At this point people have convinced me to roll a Cleric instead.

It'll still be a High Elf though.

[eqravenprince]

I haven't made it yet, and honestly I might not do it at all now. At this point people have convinced me to roll a Cleric instead.

It'll still be a High Elf though.

I've played both into 30's, I preferred Dwarf over High Elf. The extra charisma while nice didn't make up for my noodle high elf arms. I suppose if twinking, then it hardly matters either way.

[Foxplay]

If you want to do it, do it. Nothing weird about it. Even more justified since you have a specific goal that cannot be achieved on your first Paladin (Nature's Defender)

In the end the differences will be small and most likely replaced by raid weapons if you ever get any of those. But fashion / race selection is a huge thing for classic EQ players so if its what you want then go for it.... Heck even if you do get raid weapons natures defender still looks dope as hell just for fashion quest alone

[Damarous]

Gnome cleric with girdle of rapidity, gnome tinkered armor for clickies, and a sarnak devastator was legitimately the most fun i've ever had. He's level 52 and still melee solos things