Blam Stick on Bard

[busted]

Good idea or best idea?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Blam_Stick

Thinking about getting one of these for bard. I wish it fit in offhand though.

Aside: What are the best weapons a bard can get outside of ToV?

(I know bards aren't supposed to use weapons etc etc but I like to hit stuff while barding)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I believe the best two weapons for bard you can get without raiding are:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Blade_of_Carnage
https://wiki.project1999.com/Swiftblade_of_Zek

But they are obviously pretty expensive.

[Skarne]

Shamwowi is correct. I believe those 2 are BiS.

Most fun I ever had in EQ was when I de-leveled my epic bard to 4 with those 2 weapons. I'm back to 60 again, and plan on doing the same thing when I can get a bit more NoDrop gear.

Anyways, to answer your question, a blam stick would be pretty fun to use but you also have to take into account a Bard's melee skill cap. The blam stick won't take a bard as far as it will other classes. However if I were you i'd still go for it! Let us know how it works out?

[busted]

The swiftblade and BoC do look fantastic. Pricey as you say ��

I'm thinking the next cheapest alternatives might be these 2 swords

- The 30/40 (.75) on https://wiki.project1999.com/Blam_Stick
- The 20/34 (.58) on https://wiki.project1999.com/Scimitar_of_the_Emerald_Dawn
- The 14/24 (.58) on https://wiki.project1999.com/Guardians_Mace

Any others folks can think of?

I have a scimitar of emerald dawn on live in offhand and remember it smacking for over 100. That made me feel like I was doing some damage at least heh.

[Skarne]

Hmm well Winters Fury might be a good pick for that list. https://wiki.project1999.com/Winters_Fury

Also an Edge of the Nightwalker
https://wiki.project1999.com/Edge_of_the_Nightwalker

But Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn seems to be a good pick too. And your 2 picks are indeed decent choices if you're on a budget. I like your battle bard idea.

On my bard I too try and do as much melee as I can while still twisting all the songs my group needs. I find it more fun to play that way compared to just sitting next to the casters and playing the songs without meleeing.

If you ever get your epic i'd be interested in seeing what kind of damage you can do when it procs solo with a blam stick and epic OH.

[Vivitron]

The swiftblade and BoC do look fantastic. Pricey as you say ��

I'm thinking the next cheapest alternatives might be these 2 swords

- The 30/40 (.75) on https://wiki.project1999.com/Blam_Stick
- The 20/34 (.58) on https://wiki.project1999.com/Scimitar_of_the_Emerald_Dawn
- The 14/24 (.58) on https://wiki.project1999.com/Guardians_Mace

Any others folks can think of?

I have a scimitar of emerald dawn on live in offhand and remember it smacking for over 100. That made me feel like I was doing some damage at least heh.

Breath of Harmony is also notable (10/18, and the effect is an instant click not a proc) https://wiki.project1999.com/Breath_of_harmony

I think the prime hand damage bonus (constant bonus regardless of delay means faster is better) puts the BoH ahead of the scimitar and guardian's mace for prime hand. Would be fun to compare to blam stick.

[Ripqozko]

Bard dps sucks no matter what you put on, just swarm.

[Bardp1999]

This was the defacto twink gear on Blue for a long while. Im sure Velious has some slightly better options, but this is what I would still recomend

https://wiki.project1999.com/Breath_of_Harmony
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crystalline_Short_Sword

[Samoht]

Hay, so...

You need to consider damage bonus when calculating ratio for your main hand weapon. Faster weapons will inherently have higher DPS when you consider that they are applying the damage bonus more frequently than slower weapons.

Use this calculation for determining ratio for your main hand weapon:

(Weapon Damage + Damage Bonus for your Level) / Weapon Delay

Suddenly the Blam Stick doesn't perform as well as you thought it did.

[remen]

For the best bard weapon outside ToV get https://wiki.project1999.com/Nature%27s_Melody

It has a great ratio and proc, and the rest of the stats aren't half bad

[busted]

Hey thanks for the tip Samoht!

How do you determine the "Damage Bonus for your Level" part?

Thanks.

Also remen, nice troll lol

[bobjonesp99]

at 60 its 11.

for damage calculations its more complicated than simply taking ( weapon damage + damage bonus ) / delay.

if you want a simple formula to compare weapons potential dps, consider ( weapon damage x 2 + damage bonus) / delay to compare the benefit of 1h weapons in the primary slot.... for the secondary you don't get the damage bonus.

in reality, it also depends on your attack rating, strength, level, combat skill levels, and the targets AC/level/etc and is really convoluted.

[sideshow]

I leveled my bard through melee only up to 48 so far. It has been fun. Still don't know how to swarm and don't really care too. I use Di'zok Wristsnapper (10/18) MH and Guardians Mace (12/24) OH at the moment. Given the handicap us bards have in the melee game I can put out some decent dmg. I'm able to twist 5 songs, 2 being dots, a str/atk/atk buff, a decrease atk/movement speed and fear/whatever.
Bards have so much utility it's unreal. Definitely one of my favorite toons to play.

[Troxx]

I believe the best two weapons for bard you can get without raiding are:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Blade_of_Carnage
https://wiki.project1999.com/Swiftblade_of_Zek

But they are obviously pretty expensive.

And both would be a waste on a bard ... our dps is comparative rubbish even with the best.

[busted]

Its (blam stick) is pretty good. Especially on lower lvl mobs

Smashing something for 178 feels pretty good.

[enjchanter]

Bard dps sucks no matter what you put on, just swarm.

[ArbiterBlixen]

And both would be a waste on a bard ... our dps is comparative rubbish even with the best.

Depends what you’re fighting. On group content bard can outdps a rogue.

[Troxx]

Not with melee they can’t

[ArbiterBlixen]

Not with melee they can’t

No shit. It's part of the puzzle.

[Troxx]

Derp derp

This thread is about blam sticks on bard.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Goodness. That's why i was reponding to you directly. Bard dps is not rubbish. It can beat any other melee dps on group content.

[Crede]

I leveled my bard through melee only up to 48 so far. It has been fun. Still don't know how to swarm and don't really care too. I use Di'zok Wristsnapper (10/18) MH and Guardians Mace (12/24) OH at the moment. Given the handicap us bards have in the melee game I can put out some decent dmg. I'm able to twist 5 songs, 2 being dots, a str/atk/atk buff, a decrease atk/movement speed and fear/whatever.
Bards have so much utility it's unreal. Definitely one of my favorite toons to play.

Bard melee falls off hard in the 50s. If you can manage to get epic though I’d be curious what numbers a bard could put up with a good primary while using all 3 chant dots and their final lvl 60 dot

[Troxx]

Goodness. That's why i was reponding to you directly. Bard dps is not rubbish. It can beat any other melee dps on group content.

I love it when people talk to me like I don’t know how to play a bard. You quoted me out of context … where I was saying a blade of carnage vs swiftblade of Zek would be a waste of money on a bard … because our melee dps is rubbish.

My bards in game name is Troxx lol. I am well aware of what kind of dps is possible between charms, dots and all the other tricks. I would strongly disagree that “it’s better than any other melee dps in group content”.

[ArbiterBlixen]

I'll parse out some fights later. I would guess at equivalent gear levels, other melee would only start to win at the really high end ie. tuna and high tier tov weapons.

[Toxigen]

Friends don't let friends bard melee.

[Allishia]

I leveled my bard through melee only up to 48 so far. It has been fun. Still don't know how to swarm and don't really care too. I use Di'zok Wristsnapper (10/18) MH and Guardians Mace (12/24) OH at the moment. Given the handicap us bards have in the melee game I can put out some decent dmg. I'm able to twist 5 songs, 2 being dots, a str/atk/atk buff, a decrease atk/movement speed and fear/whatever.
Bards have so much utility it's unreal. Definitely one of my favorite toons to play.

Here you go on swarming, I'm a newb and I can do it lol.

https://youtu.be/E76wrLoNclU

[ArbiterBlixen]

Friends don't let friends bard melee.

Well i like to keep friends of all play-styles and ethnicities. To each their own.

[busted]

Now I'm curious on Bard DPS strategies ya'll have used.

I am well aware of what kind of dps is possible between charms, dots and all the other tricks.

On group content bard can outdps a rogue.

ArbiterBlixen and Troxx what are your favorite strats for max DPS?

Thanks!

[ArbiterBlixen]

Now I'm curious on Bard DPS strategies ya'll have used.





ArbiterBlixen and Troxx what are your favorite strats for max DPS?

Thanks!

I’m not sure what’s fair game in this argument. I’d like to count all dps that would be added regardless of group comp all the way down to a solo melee (on blue mobs).

So if i was solo melee peak dps would probably be a pet, while running mcvax, a DS psalm, and a dot.

If no pets allowed mcvax, DS psalm, and 2 dots

^Skipping long duration dot (slow component) in both in favor of DS damage.

If DS damage doesn’t count, long duration dot and 4 twisted dots.

[Troxx]

Now I'm curious on Bard DPS strategies ya'll have used.





ArbiterBlixen and Troxx what are your favorite strats for max DPS?

Thanks!

If going for absolute max personal dps? DoT stacking while punching with instruments : 1 minute level 60 brass dot, drum chants and aoe stings dot always worked out better than any combo with our pathetic melee. It’s a lot of instrument swapping and a PITA but it always worked out better. It’s really not possible to parse this anymore as dot dmg isn’t visible but you can run the math. 5 fully loaded dots with only one needing to be refreshed once a minute. Max dot damage can be calculated with instrument mod known and you can pretty well keep all 5 dots up most of the time. It’s decent dps but won’t beat out a true dps class at 60 (level needed for long dot). It is certainly less dps than my 60 paladin with NToV spear. Doing this in a group would be silly though because then you can’t do all the other important stuff you should be doing and the aoe dot (strong strings) will break mez on any cc’d mobs.

Solo with charm? Charm one against the other. Load 3 chants on the non pet. Charm the target you were just loading up with dots and sick it on old pet and load up dots … rinse and repeat. Dps solo this way effectively gives you the dps of whatever you’re fighting x2 plus your 3 chants. Depending on the content, this is actually very strong dps for as long as your mana holds out but you won’t be doing this in a group.

Granted I never got epic. Epic with its instrument mod with a NToV weapon and twisting the same dots while meleeing probably best but most bards on this server will never see their epic.

And no … in this particular discussion you can’t claim added group dps. Otherwise the healer is doing the most dps because without them you wouldn’t be killing anything.

Melee bard before epic is bad bard the overwhelming majority of the time. I can easily imagine a group setup where melee could be preferable but it is the exception, not the norm. After epic, between the universal instrument mod and the sweet proc … yeah I’d recommend having weapons out.

Melee dps contribution is minimal. Bards need to recognize what they are: mobile armor plated utility casters. Just because you CAN swing weapons doesn’t mean you should be.

[ArbiterBlixen]

I'm just not sure DS is strictly added group damage. Cause this is damage that you would get even solo, or with an all caster group. I think it is justifiably attributeable to the bard.


For comparison group haste would be variable based on group comp. But DS values would be constant all the way from a full group down to solo. (Varying slightly based on mob ofc)

[Troxx]

DS I would directly attribute to the bard the same way I would attribute the damage from a mage DS. Haste/buffs/etc is grey area but not relevant to a thread discussing blam sticks on bards or whether or not to buy your bard a SBoZ or BoC.

[ArbiterBlixen]

DS I would directly attribute to the bard the same way I would attribute the damage from a mage DS. Haste/buffs/etc is grey area but not relevant to a thread discussing blam sticks on bards or whether or not to buy your bard a SBoZ or BoC.

Yeah it's a bit grey. Anyway, this is all stemming from a misinterpretation of your original comment anyhow. Which I agree with following clarification.

[Troxx]

Did I just win the internet?

Lol jk man I see where the confusion stemmed from in retrospect. My biggest regret is that I never finished Troxx’s epic. It would have rocked my face off … I still get hard daydreaming about it. I hate instrument swapping.

[busted]

1 minute level 60 brass dot, drum chants and aoe stings dot always worked out better than any combo with our pathetic melee

Why not both though? With primary instruments you can easily swap our primary weapon & put on instrument before dots land. This way you get the maximum amount of melee AND max dmg from dots.

This seems like winning strategy (IMO) but does require more work of course.

Aside from that, I do like charming for more DPS. With the proper control/mezzing between fights you can hold a mob for quite some time to augment the groups DPS.

[Troxx]

Not every bard has the full compliment of primary hand weapons. And even then you’re only adding the offhand damage (no dmg bonus) on a class that can’t double attack and isn’t the beez kneez in terms of dual wield skill.

I’d rather slit my wrists than try to keep 5 instrument modded dots up on mob and trying to swap in weapons (in and out) before the next dots land in 3 seconds. You’re loading up an initial and then doing a nonstop every 3 seconds of casting with swapping drums and strings as it is.

Not gonna happen. And not using instruments cripples the dot damage.

[Rust1d?]

Other than the Crys short sword, what else is good around 1kpp? Axe of velium brood seems okay?

[Vivitron]

Other than the Crys short sword, what else is good around 1kpp? Axe of velium brood seems okay?

Guardian's Mace and Breath of Harmony are pretty good. BoH is way out of that price range on green, but maybe close enough to be worth mentioning at blue prices; the effect is an instant click not a proc.

[eisley]

I've never understood the fascination with Blam Stick. People know about Mainhand Damage Bonus, right? That delay tanks its' real ratio to like tradable item tier.

[Crede]

I've never understood the fascination with Blam Stick. People know about Mainhand Damage Bonus, right? That delay tanks its' real ratio to like tradable item tier.

If the (dmg * 2 + dmg bonus) / delay formula is actually accurate then the blam stick is only slightly inferior to a sboz with the max dmg bonus so yea probably better off with the sboz if you can afford it but that is a big if

[Valakut]

skip the blam stick and ignore 99% of this thread since its mostly zerg guild raiders who hear dps and think 30 monks with triple attack with 0 of those monks actually having beads

if you want to farm on a bard play it like a shaman and you will do fine. will you out dps a rogue on adderal? NO. can you survive some crazy mobs that summon and drop good loot after long fights? YES

[Toxigen]

you only melee on bard if you have epic, and if you're swinging before epic you're a shit bard

hope this helps

[Snaggles]

you only melee on bard if you have epic, and if you're swinging before epic you're a shit bard

hope this helps

Not necessarily true. Haste, snare, and mana songs (plus some others) aren’t modded by instruments. Depending on the group mix if someone wants to melee and is quick to pivot to other needs/songs that’s fine (IMHO).

For me on my 57 bard at least I won’t mess with weapons and likely won’t get a proc weapon that worth swinging. I’d rather just click and stay aware of the scene at hand. A swap from drum to horn to stringed is very quick. Putting weapons away is a pain. Maybe I’m just paranoid at being a sucky bard, lol.

Main issue with a blam is on low AC stuff it’s about on par with a SBoZ. On high ac it’s worse. You can prob farm plat for one easier than farming PoM for a statless weapon.

[Ennewi]

Also, Melodious Truncheons are worth equipping versus highly resistant mobs that gate/cheal start get lower in health. Orbs of Tishan are another exception.

[Ennewi]

Also, Melodious Truncheons are worth equipping versus highly resistant mobs that gate/cheal, just have to swap in early enough before the mobs start getting lower in health. Orbs of Tishan are another exception. PITA swapping so much but better than having to camp out aggro, zone/evac, or wipe and cr.

Fixed, thanks inability to edit after x amount of time.

[Encroaching Death]

Bards do better melee DPS than Monks

[Vivitron]

Not necessarily true. Haste, snare, and mana songs (plus some others) aren’t modded by instruments. Depending on the group mix if someone wants to melee and is quick to pivot to other needs/songs that’s fine (IMHO).

That's how I saw it levelling up, especially with a lute of the howler. If your twist is, say, slow/haste/regen/dot it's optimal to melee and tap in the lute for regen and dot. Of course pulling/cc take priority, but sometimes the group needs to kill stuff before you can bring more, and you can leave auto attack on while sending out eyeballs, too.

[Snaggles]

That's how I saw it levelling up, especially with a lute of the howler. If your twist is, say, slow/haste/regen/dot it's optimal to melee and tap in the lute for regen and dot. Of course pulling/cc take priority, but sometimes the group needs to kill stuff before you can bring more, and you can leave auto attack on while sending out eyeballs, too.

Yea the haste plus the attack (str and raw attack) is pretty crazy. Plus it gives you more twist options.

So long as the bard is playing songs and is awake to play CC when stuff falls apart they are doing an amazing job, imho.

[Croco]

Bards do better melee DPS than Monks

In your dreams.

[Crede]

Bard with epic using all 3 chant dots and meleeing twisting in the 60 slow and ds as well is probably putting out like 100 dps?

[Vivitron]

Bard with epic using all 3 chant dots and meleeing twisting in the 60 slow and ds as well is probably putting out like 100 dps?

tl;dr: I do get close to 100 dps against the Froglok Forager with tuna dagger + epic + bis instruments.

Froglok Forager cycle (I'd like an iksar mask) is one of the only places where I end up meleeing + loading up single target dots.

Forager conveniently seems to always have 6k hp, so a one minute kill time equals 100 dps. The other day before I saw this post I noticed I was often about 60s on most of my kills, but I was getting a jump on the damage by pulling with the 60 slow and the two Tuyen's drum dots, and my parser didn't start the timer until I was meleeing it.

So I pulled in a few today without pre-dotting for some clean tests.

First, melee only to test the Forager's hp:


6034 damage kill in 123 seconds = 49 dps
6027 damage kill in 120 seconds = 50 dps
6074 damage kill in 128 seconds = 47 dps
6047 damage kill in 117 seconds = 52 dps
6007 damage kill in 120 seconds = 50 dps


Yep, Forager has 6k.

Second, my usual Forager twist but I let it get to camp before landing a dot: 60 slow dot then a Tuyens Flame (drum dot) / Tuyens Ice (drum dot) / Denon's Bereavement (lute dot) / Selo's Cords of Cessation (lute dot) / Regen twist, tapping in prime hand instruments right as the songs land:

62second kill = 97 dps (47 of it from melee)

Third, I tried hitting the slow dot then cycling all 6 other dots, tapping in prime hand instruments:
56seconds kill = 105 dps (46 of it from melee)

What about damage shield? I got hit a total of 27 times in the last two parses. My bigger damage shield is 23. Small sample but that puts it in the ballpark of 5 dps, so I think I'm better off dotting here.

[Snaggles]

Three chants (31, 31, 25 dmg/tick unmodified) = 87 per tick.
Drums of the beast 2.6 modifier = 226.20 per tick

That's 37.40 dps in chants. Foragers are like level 45 so it's easy to do high melee dps against them. 100 dps certainly seems to make sense for a top tier bard.

Like everything, context is important. What are you killing and will songs land? Otherwise though bard group attack buffs are amazing and turn even lowly melees into heroes.

[Ripqozko]

Now show me a parse on a raid mob where none of that shit works, let me see that 100. Hope that helps.

[Vivitron]

Now show me a parse on a raid mob where none of that shit works, let me see that 100. Hope that helps.

Yep, not 100. I meleed some of the focusers last time my guild cleared PoG. My best showing was 44 melee dps. I don't have any worthwhile parses from raid bosses yet with my current weapon setup, but I'm hoping to break 40 when everything goes well.

Like the op sometimes I like to hit things on my bard anyway, and am curious how far it can be pushed.