Red 1.0, not dead? New Ruleset?

[Gustoo]

What about we just turn item loot on for low level pvp. You can disable it for level 51+ for all I care since those guys seem to be the most worried about getting steamrolled during a raid and losing equipment.

Sure, hardly any new players are going to join because of item loot being turned do.

But at least that way we have a decent server -in theory-

Meaning if a twink comes around in someones mega dreams they could harm touch the guy before a train kills him and take something neat. Regular scrubs wear low end gear no problems there.

I'm ready to play 3hrs a night 4x a week 10pm-1am pacific time with new ruleset, just to gear up my twink good guy.


If someone did want to bring new players to red, I would say we open it up with a special PVP event where character select gives you a level 10 gnome warrior with small bronze bp, legs and vambs and maxxed skills and fine steel long sword and you have a free for all super brawl PVP with instant respawn and you're out of the tournament once you are all out of bronze armor.

Prizes are DE masks, Manastones, Firepots binds, other stupid legacy shit.

Also on the spot guild creation.

Also server agrees to get deleted if less than 60 players show up to the event :P

[Dildy]

ok

[starkind]

I would love a split rules set server.

With itemloot turned off at maybe lvl 48. Stuff like firepot binds forever in. Rubi.

De mask never in.

AoN super randomized and rare off any raid mob.

[Gustoo]

Thanks for the pity reply!

I had logged on red and thought "well honestly it would be nice if I didn't have to level up a character again!"

and I imagined how red 1.0 could become good.

Item loot level 1-48 enabled would do it for me.

Any other thoughtful stuff would just be gravy.

Make weighted axe unusable I guess to fix the archery weirdness with minimum effort.



I never considered having item loot for low levels only but its a solution that allows low level PVP to be worth doing without making high level guys complain hard about risk of pixel loss against the fully no drop geared out dragon loot players in the velious era (though I still think its kinda lame)

But I'm willing to concede that in order to make the low level game actually interesting again.

All Hail Nilbog please unilaterally screw with red 1.0 ruleset !

[A Knight]

Excuse me for sounding noob. I just tried to look it up so I don't but I poofed out too quick.

What about a POD like turn in. Doesn't it prevent you from porting with other players? Pod book turn in?

- POD book turn in.

- Can't port but can join a guild.

- Your corpse can now be looted, but it grants you 2 more level range kill above and below.

- Minus 10 percent xp against PVE

- But gives you increased 10 to all resistances in pvp. (Or just in general if coding is annoying.)

- No drop armor adds additional 5 ac per armor piece, with the exception of all quested armor 50 plus. (Velious etc. Not planes.)

[Tradesonred]

You guys make it hard to just keep lurking with these terrible suggestions. Whatever influx of new people red is having is going to get killed, wait no, nuked with item loot.
Id bet it would even make griefers who stopped playing log back in again to grief people because of the incentive of making griefing fun again.

Theres only one way item loot is going to work: Its if they make the halloween event of 2001 a permanent, recurring event so that everyone can gear up at least one set of no drop loot they can always fall back on. Ideally, something even better than half-assing it and actually taking the time to add no drop pieces to the loot tables. Like one 1-20 set, one 21-40 set, one 41-55 set and one 60 set. Or something. Just copy existing gear of its level range and lower the stats a bit. Put some on trash mobs and the best ones on named/bosses. Or something. Lock the no drop gear to level range.

It will spice up vanilla, make item loot even more viable than it was on live without going too moddy. The no drop halloween event was a thing on live, this is just a variation of it. New people / everyone on the new server can make it a sandbox quest to gotta catch em' all. No more unkillable twinks, if you wanna wear that fungi, better not sleep on the job. It will force most griefers to wear the no drop gear and be mostly on equal footing with newbs/casuals, greatly reducing the harm they can do. RMT is now unviable.

Good gear when you roll with a crew, no drop in risky/solo situations. The eve motto: Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[A Knight]

I was trying to make incentive to keep PKs around but at least slow them down. Making anyone who enters into POD mode, item lootable. Which would only be PKs who do this. Maybe some high levels.

/shrugs

Hopefully one day Ill come back and be someone who has played a bit, but is still some how a professional part time noob.

[Tradesonred]

Last edit before 30 minutes edit window didnt go through:

This will make pvp more fun and balanced across the board. It will create the economy that made Gfay the central hub on live people never got to experience on red. With a little more tweaks like this, it could be the dream red server that could have been.

Just with that no drop item loot setup it will be 10X better than red was at launch, making a stable high pop a more likely possibility. Launching a red server with plain item loot or adding it to red right now without an opt-in would be a disaster. Better off keeping it that way / lauching a new red with plain FFA no xp loss.

[Darksinga]

Let EQ PvP die for fucks sake. No one wants to keep fighting the same 50 nerds for the next 10 years

[Gustoo]

Item loot can’t have opt in.

No drop gear like 01 Halloween is a good idea, but now we’re getting custom.

I haven’t seen much influx of noobs and I’ll buy a consumer cellular cellphone and allow myself to be batphoned during work hours to buff noobs at unrest if any PKs from 9 years ago start making life miserable for the 2 new players lol.

If item loot is engaged I will be playing a twink PK fighter and there might be other dork wads like me. It won’t derail anything since the train is already smoldering in its own burning cargo at the bottom of a ravine.

But it might get people like me interested again.

If the sparse noobs aren’t hunted for their gold in unrest they won’t be hunted for their dime a dozen lvl 30ish mob drop items like gator scale arms. There’s no one to even sell that stuff to and with item loot the cost just goes down on droppables.

I’m just not sure how to respond to people that don’t want anyone tampering with our comfortably flat lined existing sever.

[Gustoo]

No PK is going to volunteer to make his good worthwhile items become lootable.

[A Knight]

Shouldn't be too hard to get planes gear, and then get a free 2 levels added, to how low you can kill someone.

I don't see why not. /shrugs

I guess everyone is capable of getting full Kael gear and deleveling with epics, so yea, maybe pointless. Who would then care about a kinda decked out planes gear PK, with an added two levels to pvp range?

[Gustoo]

adding it to red right now without an opt-in would be a disaster.

You can’t have a disaster on a 20 pop server.

However some murderers might show up to kill the rare twink running around.

And some good guys might show up to kill said murderers

Or not.

It seems to be a level 48 item loot cap might keep the level 60s happy with their pixels and might make pvp outside of fighting for dragons worthwhile.

For now it only serves to allow camp disputes to be settled handily so it’s still the best server but it could be better

[Gustoo]

There are delevel limitations here and level reqs that did not exist in classic and will exist here to prevent over the top Uber PKs

Including planar junk which should have a level 46 requirement.

Finding no drop gear and using it is part of the glory. An item loot cut off just means level 60 lazy people can stay lazy and not campaign against the program to make the sever good.

[A Knight]

I'm just hoping I can get over my video game name paranoia first. Should be ordering a new computer soon, to fix the one people who don't exist probably broke.

Then I can crap out character names, and not be too concerned about my heroin EQ being completely ruined for all eternity.

Gotta probably fix the dutch clog shoes I wear, that people who don't exist probably broke, first.

(I know you all don't exist and already know all this, but I figured I'd say again. Shouldn't matter at this point.)

[Gustoo]

Pretty confused by that post, but I'm typing on a computer now so I can be a little more coherent in my own posts.

To summarize

1. There is highly limited growth on the existing server, new players are rare and potential negative impact to 1 - 10 players should not dissuade the community from making changes to the otherwise flatlined server.

2. Low level PVP is fun when fighting twinks means you might get item loot. Losing items yourself is a bummer but of little consequence.

3. Having a level 48 or whatever item loot cap means that existing high level players have nothing to complain about except their twinks being targets, which is a major feature of item loot.

[A Knight]

I don't know what there is to be confused about. My post was coherent. Everyone has heard my story.

I was also reiterating that I have severe video game name paranoia, and that's why I can't play. Lol is it still project 1999 could be the theoretical real world? Haven't I talked to you all enough? I'm walking away, till another time. Should hopefully have 1 more pop in a month or three.

No disrespect to project 1999. I was naming a world after you. I give my respects to project 1999. If project 1999 owners didn't like me, I'd probably rather die. (Not that I'm not already dying. My brain is giving out a bit.) Hopefully I could make and code single player EQ if life became desperate and there was no project 1999.

[Tradesonred]

I’m just not sure how to respond to people that don’t want anyone tampering with our comfortably flat lined existing sever.

I said that because i see people trying to repopulate the server IE the power level thread. Personally i dont get it since Rogean could come out of the blue like Tada! Red 2.0 in 2 months, your server's truly dead now but thats another subject and i decided to get off that train since my piece is said.

My point was that people are trying to bring people to red. If you add item loot and get twinks to lol take away the charity pieces they got, on top of honey-potting the griefer twinks back on the server without the population necessary for them to risk getting 8v1d like i seen often on Rallos, peasant revolt style, its just gonna make things worse.

[Tradesonred]

Like if i had more motivation for 2.0 id push for item loot so i could take my 60 sham and grief the lowbie pop. But i dont play that.

[Tradesonred]

2. Low level PVP is fun when fighting twinks means you might get item loot. Losing items yourself is a bummer but of little consequence.


I dont know how long since you played EQ but youre not killing hard twinks even 5v1 if people are wearing throwaway vendor trash, best outcome is he cant kill your entire group, has to dodge for a bit and you get time to scoot. It needs close to rallos pop levels so the entire zone pretty much is waiting for the twink, peasant revolt style to get that twink pelt.

The no drop gear means that you can still try without losing your gear, so then it gets *sorta* fun to fight a twink because you get to have a fighting chance and the twink is the one risking something, which is why i said ok on 1.0 but not without this tweak. I remember how fucking annoying it was on rallos before my no drop set that twinks would still loot my trashy cloth.

If people are 5v1 with ok no drop gear that they cant lose, the twink has to be more careful and cant risk having to bag everything so most likely he will have a setup like everything no drop and a fungi, so he can bag it just before he dies. It makes the twinks less powerful and for more even pvp. A small percentage will get cocky and still wear it all, making them like a world boss that creates emerging gameplay and interesting pvp while leaving casuals with basically 0 risk of getting griefed besides corpse runs.

[Jimjam]

Shouldn’t be able to bag gear to circumvent item loot.

[Tradesonred]

Like if i had more motivation for 2.0 id push for item loot so i could take my 60 sham and grief the lowbie pop. But i dont play that.

Obviously i cant do that since its FFA 4 levels not sullon lol. I guess i wouldnt have the motivation to do it since id have to farm gear for twinks but im sure many people have 5 parked twinks already geared up and those would be the kind of players to be incited to log back in with a plain item loot change.

[Tradesonred]

Shouldn’t be able to bag gear to circumvent item loot.

Thats how it was on Rallos. One piece, any piece, besides weapon slots, bags cant be touched. Feel free to discuss alternative loot setups, maybe a 1min timer since the last time you got hit to bag stuff.

[Gustoo]

Jim jam what’s so bad about people bagging?

Nothing more satisfying than watching a player on auto run with his gear slowly disappearing one item at a time then landing a blind knowing he’s absolutely
Shitting his pants.

Tradesonred I know that a twink is very hard near impossible to kill for junk noobs. That’s how it is now. The difference is only that SOMe people will contrive to fight the twink simply for the prospect of loot. Other people will log an alt or move to a new leveling area, no problem. Some people will log an “anti Pk” alt and come try to slay the guy.

It isn’t flawless but it’s a thousand times better than the current system which isn’t fun enough to either the twink murderer or the guy trying to grind.

Like we might as well be considering no pvp enabled until level 40 or something because of how pointless it is.

Literally starkind is the only player I ever saw fight a Pk outside of defending a camp with a group (no option to flee) or defending a raid (no
Option to flee)

Everyone else went for a zone line and found something else to do.

[JayDee]

What about we just turn item loot on for low level pvp. You can disable it for level 51+ for all I care since those guys seem to be the most worried about getting steamrolled during a raid and losing equipment.

Sure, hardly any new players are going to join because of item loot being turned do.

But at least that way we have a decent server -in theory-

Meaning if a twink comes around in someones mega dreams they could harm touch the guy before a train kills him and take something neat. Regular scrubs wear low end gear no problems there.

I'm ready to play 3hrs a night 4x a week 10pm-1am pacific time with new ruleset, just to gear up my twink good guy.


If someone did want to bring new players to red, I would say we open it up with a special PVP event where character select gives you a level 10 gnome warrior with small bronze bp, legs and vambs and maxxed skills and fine steel long sword and you have a free for all super brawl PVP with instant respawn and you're out of the tournament once you are all out of bronze armor.

Prizes are DE masks, Manastones, Firepots binds, other stupid legacy shit.

Also on the spot guild creation.

Also server agrees to get deleted if less than 60 players show up to the event :P

on a scale from 9 to 10 how high were you when you posted this

[Tradesonred]

No need for this heavy-handed stuff.

Rallos was great because there was an economy, pvp was happening, had a PK non-PK dynamic. It all worked organically. Once its coded, you dont have to touch a thing. The no drop event on Rallos was much friendlier than it would be here im sure as it was easy to get a port to the zones where the event was popping (it was on a rotation, like it popped in EK, then that mountain zone, etc) there was sort of a non-official unspoken ceasefire in effect as everyone was scrambling to gather their no drop pieces.

Thats why it should be a recurrent thing (or better, added to loot tables) here because griefy poop sockers would work hard to prevent people from getting their no drop pieces, to keep that big tactical advantage(TM) if it was a one-time event.

Keep it simple, boost what was working on Rallos, make what was working even more fun. As detailed in my post on page 2. We will likely never get that as well, but here is a working 2.0 setup on a silver platter if they wanna look into it.

[Tradesonred]

Keep it simple, boost what was working on Rallos, make what was working even more fun. As detailed in my post on page 2. We will likely never get that as well, but here is a working 2.0 setup on a silver platter if they wanna look into it.

Page 1 actually

[Gustoo]

Jaydee: hehe

Tradesonred: I am expecting zero custom from staff, so a simple item loot enabled, with a cut-off for item loot to keep level 60 fat cats happy is my proposal.

I agree about the halloween event that was glorious. People don't stay lowbies long in the p99 emu world with all the good wiki and all the good help so I am less concerned about those low level no-drop items being mandatory.

I pretty much think of people in two categories: 1. Grinding, wearing gear they don't mind losing, and 2. Fighting, wearing the best stuff they're willing to risk to win.

If someone comes around to stomp on noobs, you can bet a rival PK is going to show up to fight that guy and try to steal his armor. The noobs getting their ringmail and cloth stolen risk very little.

The level cap on PVP just means the high level game can stay unchanged. The justification for this is mainly because level 60 guys are pixel rotted weirdos, but the "official" justification is that at high level PVP happens for high value camps and mobs and therefore needs no additional incentives to fight back vs log out and leave.

[Bardp1999]

R99 is thriving, 46 players online

[hekbringer]

86 last night. Poopsockers all retired to bitch on the forums. The pop is gainfully employed. They don't have to come back. It will grow as the miserable derelict turn to ash.

[reebz]

Ya great idea turn on item loot for sub 48 so I can farm cloth tunics off dumb blue players taking the easy road in my TOV geared level 30. Lucky me if I actually die (and I never will) everything is no drop.

This is why the server is dead btw. It's because I have had a level 30 paladin in TOV gear since 2017. There is no competing over anything when everyone has everything 3x over. Anyone who thinks they are "competing" for anything on red99 in 2022 is a complete loser.

[Tassador]

Man ecoli has absolutely nothing to do but flood the forums with tldrs. Holy fuck man just waste away in game farming fbss.

[Old_PVP]

Thats how it was on Rallos. One piece, any piece, besides weapon slots, bags cant be touched. Feel free to discuss alternative loot setups, maybe a 1min timer since the last time you got hit to bag stuff.

In early days of RZ weapon slots were fair game too. Halloween event was just ok... nothing spectacular. There were a few no drop pieces sprinkled around, but it wasn't a full set of gear.

Remember when noobs would hang around trying to get Shin gloves / greaves, basalt carapace, opoline helms? lol

Just make ALL items NO DROP. Make people earn every piece of gear the good old fashioned way & when they outgrow a piece, delete that shit.

[Gustoo]

Easy to put level reqs on Inappropriate gear.

Thanks for your contribution.

[reebz]

Ya real ez r99 staff will get on it right away

[hekbringer]

I dont have TOV gear. I've been in school and grinding a shitty job before that. I didn't get to play much. I've never even crawled seb.

To me, the loser is the guy who beat the game and hates it, yet feels so empty inside that he can only resent people actually enjoying it. Find a new game or learn to bait a hook, something but fill the void. You can choose to be something else.

[Tradesonred]

In early days of RZ weapon slots were fair game too. Halloween event was just ok... nothing spectacular. There were a few no drop pieces sprinkled around, but it wasn't a full set of gear.

Remember when noobs would hang around trying to get Shin gloves / greaves, basalt carapace, opoline helms? lol


I was that newb during the event. I was level 11 or something and just ran around getting all the pieces, begging for ports. People would call the pieces in OOC. I think i was 6 by the end of the weekend but i got my pieces. Just died over and over clicking corpses. Halloween event is burned in my mind, not just ok. That funky red blue and yellow wiz robe. I felt like a fucking erudite Bootsy Collins. I still remember my wtf when i who'd EK and it showed 205 players. People dragging the AOE'ing Rathe undead dragon to the zone line, so many corpses. You could make bank in ek with all the scythes @ 10p a pop.

People dont get just how great EQ was back then, what did i play that was better with multiplayer 3d worlds before that? Tribes? Quake?

The thing is, i got 5 no drop pieces and it was mostly psychological. I had a bunch of pieces i couldnt lose and it helped me tough it out against twinks and play another year or so. Thats what i mean by make it Rallos, but better. With full sets of no drop then item loot is bearable and even enjoyable cuz its the twinks who have to risk something to get their ganks. Complete opposite of red launch where it was the casuals who got the shit end of the stick getting deleveled by zergs.

[Gustoo]

They could add the luclin noob quest armors which could be no drop and also really livened up the noob zones with tons of quest pieces.

I liked em a lot.

Or were they added in pop?

Those could be your base level no drop kit.

If you’re talking custom.

[Tunabros]

no one cares about red


hope this helps

[Tradesonred]

no one cares about red


hope this helps

[Jimjam]

Jim jam what’s so bad about people bagging?

No one ever loots a fungi from a slain active pvper

[Tradesonred]

No one ever loots a fungi from a slain active pvper

Imo you need to let people bag, theres a fine line between forcing people to put their gear on the line and making them lose a fungi/other tough gear to get, so easily.

Nobody will want to farm them, it will be demoralizing to get stung that bad with item loot and then you get a low pop and back to red dead 1.0.

Having to bag items makes it so you can save some items but its very risky to have to bag 8 slots+ if you get ambushed.

[Gustoo]

Plus everyone gets to make fun of your cowardice. If you spend any time bagging at all you look like a total chump.

They’ll have to fight scripting if guys get naked too fast tho

[Old_PVP]

No one ever loots a fungi from a slain active pvper

It's happened. Very rare I would imagine.

I remember in the early days of Velious on RZ, my guildies and I were chasing down an enemy monk outside Kael. Monk was racing for the zoneline. BOOM, someone got the killshot and lo & behold a fungi tunic. We nearly shit. I don't even think we rolled on it! The lucky killshot owner kept it.

[Jimjam]

Imo you need to let people bag, theres a fine line between forcing people to put their gear on the line and making them lose a fungi/other tough gear to get, so easily.

Nobody will want to farm them, it will be demoralizing to get stung that bad with item loot and then you get a low pop and back to red dead 1.0.

Having to bag items makes it so you can save some items but its very risky to have to bag 8 slots+ if you get ambushed.

You only really have to bag your regen, your haste, your best clicky (e.g. CoS).

It completely neuters the argument of 'a newb army could win a nice item defeating a twink!'

[Tassador]

Actually best ecoli post ever. Golf clap sir!

[Gustoo]

You only really have to bag your regen, your haste, your best clicky (e.g. CoS).

It completely neuters the argument of 'a newb army could win a nice item defeating a twink!'

A bunch of first timers aren't going to rush to a server because they expect to be ganging up on lone PK's wearing fungis and defeating them. No one is suggesting that is the case.

What does happen is that twink PK's have to be careful, and they do lose items eventually. If you spend all your time bagging stuff you are going to die fast. If you don't bag everything, and you do go down, you willl lose something.

Here is a list of items a twink melee PK (the hardest to kill PKs) will almost certainly have. This is assuming level requirements are in place for Velious quest armor, and other non droppable high level gear which would be guaranteed in this arrangement.

1. Earing of essence
2. 6/65 ring
3. Djarns ring
4. Tranix Crown, Frog Crown, skull shaped barbute
5. Blue diamond bracers or others
6. Ikky Regen, rubi bp, fungi
7. FBSS, sash of dragonborn or silver chitin wraps
8. Mithril arms
9. Mithril legs
10. Imbued granite spoulders, or bloodstained mantle

Any of that stuff is worth looting. If a twink is bagging 10+ items he is dying all the time like a loser and not a threat. Mission accomplished.

Most of the time he will do his usual stuff killing low level players with impertinence. However, they now have a reason to try to kill him, and anyone who has been through level 1-59 before may be interested in making an "anti PK" twink themselves.

And some twinks will use full sets of no drop armor like from Thurg which will make them the same level of nuisance as todays twinks. Strong (mostly because they come in ready for PVP vs an EXP grind) and with nothing to lose.

Yes. When you are grinding you don't use armor you are willing to lose. Melee's that aren't game rich spend their plat on weapons and use banded armor and cheap MR gear to grind through the game.

Casters use cheap MR gear and cheap intelligence gear.

Everyone uses HP rings and hopes to suicide via HP ring pull before they die. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

It's not like everyone just starts looting fungi's it just makes low level PVP worth doing. And you could make the thurg armor have a level req if its an OP no drop set (it sort of is)

And I remember fondly seeing people with shin greaves thinking "OMG where did you get that uber piece of NO DROP plate armor?!?!?!


The other argument is the 1 shot wizard PK who lurks around and tries to assassinate people low HP killing mobs. They exist with or without item loot, and are a permanent problem in a PVP server. It used to be even more trouble, when they would respawn with full mana after death. Again, you just don't EXP grind with good armor on unless you can afford to lose it. Some people will make super good twinks and grind with them so you can be in a group with 1 super fighter and you can all jump on the local unrest bully while that guy is around. Usually that twink still sucks compared to the professional murderer but its still fun.

[Tunabros]

rent free + mad

sorry you spent time making that instead of playing on red

[Tradesonred]

A bunch of first timers aren't going to rush to a server because they expect to be ganging up on lone PK's wearing fungis and defeating them. No one is suggesting that is the case.


The point of that JimJam is its fun to try. One chase that sticks in my mind is one guy that kept resisting my nukes in EC when 5 of us were after him, thats when i realised what twinks were. But he had to run.

By adding newb no drop sets you make that even more fun. The twink gets to try to get his ganks and his grief-lite stealing your piece of cloth and you get to try to get an item off a twink.

Thats what flabbergasted me from the red launch. They took out what was fun about Rallos, the constant low level rumbles and replaced it with a zerg stomp grief-o-rama where everyone was hiding from pvp because they didnt want to eat that big xp death. Completely different experience.

[Tradesonred]

Another tweak to add to an item loot server would be to lower the prices on the melee armor quite a bit on NPC vendors. I never played melee really so i dont know the stats difference between banded and vendor crap but some way for melees to stay geared until they get the no drop, or if no drops are never added well, to stay geared. Someone who knows melees more could work that out.

I know were drifting away a bit here from classic, that this is added workload for devs, unlikely to happen but its more fun to theorycraft what a working, fun red server would look like than playing on red right now so what can you do.

[Gustoo]

Tradesonred - yeah it is fun to try to kill twinks. Bagging isn't a problem tho if twinks start bagging everyone can start laughing. The most important subforum of this board doesn't exist which is "shameful pvp" which should be lots of screen shots of ogre PK's becoming progressively more naked as they flee through faydark.

Regarding melee armor on NPC's - a full set of banded is about 100pp to craft, and to get to banded skill it is about 100pp. Banded armor will be dropping from grinding noobs like flies. You start looting ringmail at like level 20 so its not difficult to be equipped with some armor. Possibly make sure the price for second hand banded at vendors is super cheap so after PK's offload it, normal players can re-buy from vendors at 1pp / AC or less which is typical price of crafting it.

The most common loot for a PK killing people during their EXP grind is a 4/45, 5/55 or 6/65 ring, which failed to act as a suicide device probably because of a server tick. 7mr bracers were also very common as well as the cheapo crafted MR neck piece.

Banded is lighter weight and higher AC than all the other default armors besides bronze which is super heavy. It really isn't hard to get armor in P99. On rallos zek people knew less and more people never made it out of the lowest levels so there was a market for what we consider vendor fodder items. That stuff will all be dirt cheap on red 2.

You are 100% correct about the Red 1.0 ruleset. It was the worst imaginable ruleset for PVP. The only benefit it brings to the server (still to this day) is to dispute camps in a manly fashion rather than having account sharing pharmers poopsock infinitely all the easy high platinum value camps.

But it made the EXP grinding experience more cumbersome for not much more fun, sadly.

I too was and remain surprised at the poor ruleset choice and moreso that it was on Beta and never got tinkered with or corrected before the server launched, and has been quiet as a cricket ever since. The ruleset is not classic, and seems contrived by people that never played an EQ pvp server, or had any interest in what could and does make one fun. Or all of the above + only considering everquest at level 60 which is not where most EQ players actually played the game.

Trying and failing is fine, but trying once and never doing anything else is supremely disappointing because we're staring a really great server in the face and yet seemingly little attempt has been made to achieve it.

[Gustoo]

Another thing to add is that when item loot is enabled, twink PK's also have more interesting things to do than just cause grief. Grief for sport will always exist but they too will be seeking targets that look valuable.

Thats why reputation of being a PK vs Anti PK mattered on rallos zek and never happened on Red 1.0. It isn't just because the "meta" is different now. It is because on rallos zek you wanted to know who you could trust to wear decent armor around, and you always kept track of the people who you couldn't, forever.

[reebz]

Red 99 rule set was fine sorry you didn't have fun playing

Reset and we are good to go or stay for ever dead

[Tradesonred]

Red 99 rule set was fine sorry you didn't have fun playing

Reset and we are good to go or stay for ever dead

It was not fine. Im guessing you didnt start playing before late Kunark so you dont know the rule set was changed, drastically, mid-Kunark. I had to scream and shout on the forums for like 1.5 years before they changed it and by then pop had dropped from 600 at launch to single digit at nite.

I agree that just a simple reset would probably bring back something like 300+ players (probably more, at least for the first launch weeks) and if we are lucky like what happened to a camelot server and a popular streamer brought in 1k+ who knows what kind of pop it could bring.

Unless you can define what you are talking about i might add you to ignore as to not waste time on reading that kind of lazy drive-by ill-tought posts instead of fine walls of text like Gustoo just provided the forums with.

Tradesonred - yeah it is fun to try to kill twinks. Bagging isn't a problem tho if twinks start bagging everyone can start laughing. The most important subforum of this board doesn't exist which is "shameful pvp" which should be lots of screen shots of ogre PK's becoming progressively more naked as they flee through faydark.

I dunno, for me i dont care. I would probably have fun trying to recreate a bad martigan type SK. Shiiiiit were old i cant even link an article about who bad martigan is, disappeared off the internet. SK troll on Sullon or Rallos who would run around butt naked and rack up kills. I bet half the forums dont know who Mad Martigan is either.


Thats why reputation of being a PK vs Anti PK mattered on rallos zek and never happened on Red 1.0. It isn't just because the "meta" is different now. It is because on rallos zek you wanted to know who you could trust to wear decent armor around, and you always kept track of the people who you couldn't, forever.

Id totally main an anti-pk on an anti-pk guild on 2.0 with item loot, helping newbs etc... and yeah i had a pen and piece of paper next to me so i could write down the name of guilds and players who engaged me. I fell in quite easily within the anti-pk style of play because i like to pvp and after a week you had a list long like your arm of guilds and players you could KoS so youd never run out of pvp targets.

Its also why i like FFA more than teams, its organic. Guilds can be shuffled, alliances made etc... on teams if a team starts getting overwhelming advantage, server is done, unless you theorycraft the shit out of how youre going to prevent that prior to lauching the server.

[reebz]

Uhhh i played since classic? Xp loss on pvp death wasn't great but it made for fun memories deleveling AFK players or killing nakeds on CR

[Tradesonred]

Uhhh i played since classic? Xp loss on pvp death wasn't great but it made for fun memories deleveling AFK players or killing nakeds on CR

Ok thats your precision on what you meant. So you saw how the server was getting depopulated with that and in retrospect still dont understand why it was a bad ruleset.

See thats the part where i think the devs failed and their part of fault in fostering a toxic community. They should have seen the server slowly filtering out the casuals/non-toxics and starting to get progressively heavy on people like Reebz. Me and a few others warned them repeatedly on the forums this was happening and players like reebz and kimm barely were constantly bragging on the forums this is exactly what they were doing. If they had acted sooner red would have been a different server.

Im not saying this to bitch on what was done but in hoping if another server ever gets launched, those lessons arent lost, like tears in rain.

[Gustoo]

There is a lot of tunnel vision about the level 60 portion of the game, which ignores the fact that most human players of everquest never made it to level 60.

Even if EXP loss was never in place, no item loot pvp meant that at best, pvp was a nuisance. It had no consequence for the PK since he risked zero, and it had an annoying time consequence for the victim, because his EXP grind was interrupted and slowed and maybe he only had an hour to play that day.

As an EXP grinder you are looking at how much time you spend to achieve a level. Are you going to spend any time fighting a PK in unrest who will be back 10 minutes later ready to disrupt your grind again? Or are you going to leave, log an alt, whatever.

So it turns PVP into a nuisance, with no benefit outside of handling camp disputes.

It's fine if you consider level 1-59 just a thing to blast through and never look back at, but that is the part of the game I like better, because I don't like grinding, and the great disparity of strength that gear makes when worn by low level characters means a lot of interesting things can happen.

Epics, Thurg, SS, KD, VP, Planar all this stuff was an extreme rarity until very late in EQ PVP timeline, and would be excluded from low level pvp encounters by simple level requirements being added (on P99) because its a no brainer.

[Tradesonred]

So it turns PVP into a nuisance, with no benefit outside of handling camp disputes.

It's fine if you consider level 1-59 just a thing to blast through and never look back at, but that is the part of the game I like better, because I don't like grinding, and the great disparity of strength that gear makes when worn by low level characters means a lot of interesting things can happen.


Yeah that was pretty much it, Rogean at the time just didnt get why Rallos worked and where the fun was.

[starkind]

Violating my posting limit to say this:

A rulset where once you hit 60 a timer starts ticking down and there's 1 week left to pvp and raid on that toon b4 it gets reset to 1 would be neat to me. Disable exp loss entirely so its impossible to lose exp and double leveling speed. Make every mob give a small amount of exp.

Randomly delete 1 item that character had equipped in the last week every cycle. Or delete all items except one random one on the deleveling character on said characters login. Skills are capped at 1 lvl higher and aren't lost. Basically 1 toon per login account.

Enable itemloot. Remove no drop. Make training legal. Force every one to bind in cities. Add a few more city bindable zones. Put in nexus only and turn on spires.

Increase pvp level spread +/- 10 and cap resists and defense at -5 levels in pvp. Decrease hitbox. Let people bind anywhere in TD. Forever. Without need for locket. Or ring.

Ppl could still park at 50... idk.

Limited lifespan and items with easeier ways to travel and engage in pvp would be pretty fun.

Discord server!

[Gustoo]

^ that hyper ruleset with item loot would be the most fun ever, people blasting up to 60 and back to 1 constantly would mean there would be population all over all levels of the game, at all times.

It's like the reincarnation server where the effectiveness of your past life is reflected in how much you manage to carry through haha.

Not classic enough starkind :P

I only wish that Verant / Sony experimented with rulesets more during EQ's golden years when any new server would have had decent population.

[Tradesonred]

Violating my posting limit to say this:

A rulset where once you hit 60 a timer starts ticking down and there's 1 week left to pvp and raid on that toon b4 it gets reset to 1 would be neat to me. Disable exp loss entirely so its impossible to lose exp and double leveling speed. Make every mob give a small amount of exp.


lol wat.jpg

So if you break your arm like i did 2 months ago, you lose your character that took you like 2months to grind?

Id play a server like that if it took me one session of 6 hours to get to 60, like 500X xp not 2X xp.

[Old_PVP]

Thats why reputation of being a PK vs Anti PK mattered on rallos zek and never happened on Red 1.0. It isn't just because the "meta" is different now. It is because on rallos zek you wanted to know who you could trust to wear decent armor around, and you always kept track of the people who you couldn't, forever.

This is true. Item Loot is the key missing ingredient to creating a successful anti-pk / pk environment. Without it, you get a server full of "random pks", aka reds. Which is no good... you need blues as well for healthy PVP. Without item loot you get this stupid environment of no grudges held because nothing of value is really lost. So then you just get "lol PRAS, GF - lets group now!". :rolleyes:

Item Loot servers will help foster those good long grudges that last for years and entire guild wars are built around. Paradoxically, it may be the only driving force that could turn bluebies towards embracing PVP. When a known PK murderer enters a zone, bluebies may band together to drive them out in order to protect their hard earned pixels.

[Videri]

you need blues as well for healthy PVP.

I'm not an expert, and didn't play back in-era, but I suspect this guy is right.

Item Loot is the key missing ingredient to creating a successful anti-pk / pk environment.

I hope P99 tries a Rallos Zek ruleset item loot pvp server!

[Tradesonred]

86 last night. Poopsockers all retired to bitch on the forums. The pop is gainfully employed. They don't have to come back. It will grow as the miserable derelict turn to ash.

Each time people say that i go check. Was re-reading the thread and came across quote. Sure enough. Ronnie in 4th of july at the beginning of the movie popped in my head where hes delusional about walking again someday. "Lets go, lets go, leeets gooo". People take the peak at 10pm that stays for 10mins to tell themselves everythings fine.

[Tradesonred]

The poopsockers are the ones still playing mainly i suspect and a couple who discovered server late in its lifecycle. All i got is a fungi i exchanged for my manastone, an fbss and some monk weap thats 2nd best before raid or something that i dumped on a monk for fun. Made it to 40 or something. My 60 sham is shirtless with a bunch of funny mismatched bum gear.

Hopefully the devs are lurking in threads like this, taking notes and we can play a populated server again. Lets go, lets go, leeeets goooo.

[hekbringer]

Each time people say that i go check. Was re-reading the thread and came across quote. Sure enough. Ronnie in 4th of july at the beginning of the movie popped in my head where hes delusional about walking again someday. "Lets go, lets go, leeets gooo". People take the peak at 10pm that stays for 10mins to tell themselves everythings fine.

I mean I don't want YOU or your kind to play. You dont like pve anymore so your only goal is to prevent me from enjoying it. Thus, I have no reason to lie.

I like pvp but for securing camps and such. As you stated, without item loot thats its primary value to one who has not beat the game already.

Just saying, I find groups no problem and have an active guild. The more of you that go away, the more it will grow.

[starkind]

^ that hyper ruleset with item loot would be the most fun ever, people blasting up to 60 and back to 1 constantly would mean there would be population all over all levels of the game, at all times.

It's like the reincarnation server where the effectiveness of your past life is reflected in how much you manage to carry through haha.

Not classic enough starkind :P

I only wish that Verant / Sony experimented with rulesets more during EQ's golden years when any new server would have had decent population.
Thx.

I solved the problem with my rules..player kills also give exp. So u can't hover at 50 forever and ever.

I would go ahead and just give ppl max skills in combat/casting to make it easier to get going at the accelerated pace.

[Tradesonred]

I mean I don't want YOU or your kind to play. You dont like pve anymore so your only goal is to prevent me from enjoying it. Thus, I have no reason to lie.

I like pvp but for securing camps and such. As you stated, without item loot thats its primary value to one who has not beat the game already.

Just saying, I find groups no problem and have an active guild. The more of you that go away, the more it will grow.

[mattydef]

I really wish the devs would relaunch a new red server, I honestly think it will be pretty popular. I know a good amount of people that would reroll. Blue is full of pussies that won’t even accept a fun friendly duel, I’ve tried so many times and have even offered rewards for arena battles. Even just mentioning pvp on blue gets those guys whipped into a nerd rage. I miss the old days where you’d always see monks and warriors going at it in the tunnel or rathe brawls.

[reebz]

It's crazy how disconnected Gustoo is from EQ pvp. For a decent portion of this server the consequence for dying was that you didn't get to play for the rest of the night.

I know If I logged on Beastagor and died in Seb to a group I probably wasn't getting my body back until they were done. Obviously goes both ways.

This was not the case when LNS became a thing but I'd confidently say Gustoo didn't play during that time / didn't know it existed

And ya I think being denied the ability to play your character is a pretty fun consequence to losing in pvp

[Jimjam]

Mechanics and culture are which reward you for not playing ...

[Tradesonred]

It's crazy how disconnected Gustoo is from EQ pvp. For a decent portion of this server the consequence for dying was that you didn't get to play for the rest of the night.

I know If I logged on Beastagor and died in Seb to a group I probably wasn't getting my body back until they were done. Obviously goes both ways.

This was not the case when LNS became a thing but I'd confidently say Gustoo didn't play during that time / didn't know it existed

And ya I think being denied the ability to play your character is a pretty fun consequence to losing in pvp

This is why the server lost all their players until they had to do something around mid-kunark. Because they let people like Reebz lure them into a false sensation that everything was fine.

One of the major pitfalls of the new setup, if there is ever one, will be to not get meta trolled by people like reebz, again. Especially since if they ever announce one, they will come out of the woodwork.

[Fame]

Gustoos spirit cannot be broken and of all the autists to grace us with their presence, very few have the intestinal fortitude or girth and heft of sac to be counted among the unbroken.

[Tassador]

I sure bet there are tons of people waiting to play a children game with this kook ecoli.

[Gustoo]

It's crazy how disconnected Gustoo is from EQ pvp. For a decent portion of this server the consequence for dying was that you didn't get to play for the rest of the night.

I know If I logged on Beastagor and died in Seb to a group I probably wasn't getting my body back until they were done. Obviously goes both ways.

This was not the case when LNS became a thing but I'd confidently say Gustoo didn't play during that time / didn't know it existed

And ya I think being denied the ability to play your character is a pretty fun consequence to losing in pvp

I don't understand what this statement has to do with the entire rest of this thread. I'm not trying to imagine a PVP scenario where there are harsher or less harsh consequences for dying. Consequences for dying aren't the important part of PVP. Motivation for fighting is the important part. Dying sucks in EQ no matter what, even easy corpse retrievals are a pain.

I want there to be a reason to PVP at levels other than 60.

If you're doing PVP in seb, than this proposed ruleset would be no skin off your back since you're well over level 50.

There is no chance that an item loot ruleset would be implemented without first going through and adding level requirements to dragon loot, so if you really do have a level 30 twink PK with TOV gear (which says a lot of about your deep immersion, but I won't judge you for that) his gear would become unwearable so that would suck, but I can't imagine it would be a huge loss to you since there are currently zero level 30's for you to slay anyways.

Are you really Bestagor / Salem?

[Gustoo]

I mean I don't want YOU or your kind to play. You dont like pve anymore so your only goal is to prevent me from enjoying it. Thus, I have no reason to lie.

I like pvp but for securing camps and such. As you stated, without item loot thats its primary value to one who has not beat the game already.

Just saying, I find groups no problem and have an active guild. The more of you that go away, the more it will grow.

tradesonreds picture response to this was appropriate.

Nothing that tradesonred is asking for would make your PVE experience suffer on red99. It would make the PVE Experience of all noobs level 1-50 better because the twinks that come to murder them no longer can do so without risking anything at all.

When the population hovers around 50, this is not an issue because it would be a really depraved twink PK and a stroke of pretty bad luck for you to find a twink PK on red 1.0 right now. If there was population playing the game those guys would come back out of the wood work because lets face it, vanquishing an entire zone of everyone who comes there to get EXP is good sport. For the twink PK they aren't in it for the item loot just the domination. The trash armor they might loot from poor saps in unrest does little to fatten their coin purse.

Tradesonred doesn't have your PVE in his crosshairs, except that it will certainly be impacted negatively when the server stops being a solo-quest experience.

Hopes of reviving red 1.0 are slim at best, but we might as well be trying to throw random shit into the mix. If everyone thinks item loot is such a huge risk or so unpopular we might as well try it out on red 1.0 where the pop has already hit rock bottom for years and years in a row and see how it goes. It won't be a fair experiment, but why not try it anyways. At least the server can be mechanically sound.

[Samaritan]

Gustoos spirit cannot be broken and of all the autists to grace us with their presence, very few have the intestinal fortitude or girth and heft of sac to be counted among the unbroken.

You have chosen... wisely.

[Imago]

Are you really Bestagor / Salem?

He pilots them. Lord knows what happened to the OG Beastagor.

[Jimjam]

He pilots them. Lord knows what happened to the OG Beastagor.

OG Beastagor was a delightful human. He’d happily chat with you about each others day while PVPing against you for control of the unrest/cauldron area. Very wholesome and what pvp should be like.

[Tunabros]

red players are the craziest and most delusional people on this website

[Gustoo]

Yeah Beastagor was a cool guy so it's good to confirm the character is under new management.

[starkind]

Everyone on red was p cool. Even some of the cheaters. Tho they needed rehab.