Cleric race?

[sajbert]

Fashion and roleplay-purposes aside I feel like there are only four meaningful race/diety combos.

Halfling
+ Sneak and Hide
- Terrible cha

Innoruuk Human
+ Snare and fear clickies
+ All-round faction
+ Can wear robe
+ Good stata with second highest sta

Dwarf
+ Good stats for raiding
+ Barrel roll

Gnome
+ Wallhack
+ Can wear robe

Personally I don’t care abour raid minmax and I wanna be able to lull/pacify.

But how important is sneak, maybe I could get away with a Halfling if I were to max cha? When are fear and snare clickies really used? Halflings can sort of wallhack too, in fact most races can. Faction doesn’t matter much when you can sneak.

Halfling > All? Or should I go hooman!?

[loramin]

Halfling, because it only takes 95% of the time to get to level 60.

[DMN]

First fix your list since you don't care bout raiding or fashion


Halfling
+ Sneak and Hide
+ exp bonus
- bad cha

Innoruuk Human
+ Snare and fear clickies
+ Good all around stats

Dwarf
- Bad cha

Gnome
- Bad stats in general
- Bad cha



if you care about cha there is no good reson to start low cha race.

[mcoy]

What about Mith Marr Human? Severely underrated imho...

-Mcoy

[Kirdan]

Each cleric race has a valid case, it just depends on what you want out of your cleric. If being able to pacify well is the most important thing to you, then high elf and human tend to make the most sense. Each race can get shrunk if you want wallvision. Sneak is unique to halflings, but you have to ask yourself if you need it/would use it. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would ever play a dwarf, but I don't think barrel roll is cool and I think their fashion is terrible. Human inny and halfling are my top 2, but I think gnome is an underrated choice, erudites look badass, and elf clerics are solid all-around.

[Insaiyan]

Dark elf for ultravision!
Wouldn’t they get all the clickys the humans could get?

Hidden bonus you can see in the dark during your corpse runs!

[Jimjam]

What about Mith Marr Human? Severely underrated imho...

-Mcoy

If you aren’t so much in to raiding but are into dumping lots of time and pp into tradeskilling then MM is a decent choice.

[Samoht]

Sneak is unique to halflings, but you have to ask yourself if you need it/would use it.

Sneak is one of those things that if you know how to use it, you can abuse the hell out of it. Turning in quests while KOS, using any vendor in the game, sneaking by raid mobs. Paci + sneak can get you into (or out of) some interesting situations.

[sajbert]

Dark elf for ultravision!
Wouldn’t they get all the clickys the humans could get?

Hidden bonus you can see in the dark during your corpse runs!

Bad str, barely better cha than Halflings. Nightvision is accessible for Clerics on higher level gear such as the PoM helmet. Halflings already have passable nightvision too and Human Innoruuk clerics can get a clicky helm for better vision (requires a faction grind though).

And no, Dark Elves don't get the Paineel clickies that Innoruuk humans can. Nor do they have the same allround decent faction.

[Jimjam]

Sneak is one of those things that if you know how to use it, you can abuse the hell out of it. Turning in quests while KOS, using any vendor in the game, sneaking by raid mobs. Paci + sneak can get you into (or out of) some interesting situations.

Does 360’ sneak after invis still work?

[Toxigen]

If you care about doing anything other than licking walls in a CH chain, you go high elf max cha.

End of discussion.

[sajbert]

If you care about doing anything other than licking walls in a CH chain, you go high elf max cha.

End of discussion.
Why though?

Human is 5cha less which even for lulling seems neglible. Root neck, eh, 4 sec root is useful for saving mana nuke-soloing but eh, outside of that?

Human innoruuk clerics meanwhile aren't KOS in evil cities whilst having also fear+snare clickies.

And halflings, I mean, sure their starting cha is pretty shit but if you max cha at creation, is it really that big of a diff what you can do?

[Crede]

Why though?

Human is 5cha less which even for lulling seems neglible. Root neck, eh, 4 sec root is useful for saving mana nuke-soloing but eh, outside of that?

Human innoruuk clerics meanwhile aren't KOS in evil cities whilst having also fear+snare clickies.

And halflings, I mean, sure their starting cha is pretty shit but if you max cha at creation, is it really that big of a diff what you can do?

+deadeye clicky on human!

[PatChapp]

Human inny clerics can't even buy spells in their own guildhall. They're awesome.

[mcoy]

. Nightvision is accessible for Clerics on higher level gear such as the PoM helmet. Halflings already have passable nightvision too and Human Innoruuk clerics can get a clicky helm for better vision (requires a faction grind though).

Cheap fix for night vision:

Glowing Stone Band (https://wiki.project1999.com/Glowing_Stone_Band)

-Mcoy

[Gustoo]

None of the choices are really aweful, but I think there are three best

1. High elf - Best Charisma and Wisdom. No brainer Min / Max cleric
2. Halfling - Best racial benefits, good wisdom and phyiscal stats. Most stylish. Good faction with evils due to bristlebane vs mith marr or such.
3. Human Innoruk - only 5 less charisma than high elf from min max perspetive. Bad wisdom but decent physical stats. Cool faction, and those clickies.


It's a tough call IMO. Dwarf, gnome, dark elf, erudite..all cool clerics anyways.

[Jimjam]

You can’t go wrong on race choice ... gnome can be a bit trickier if starting from scratch though.

[getsome]

Does 360’ sneak after invis still work?

no, but in its day, that was glourious, watched so many fools try and dump mobs on me in VP after i trained them.

[Tunabros]

evil human

thank me later when you get a PD robe and realize you look way more badass than

all the dwarves and elves

[Immok]

Evil Human is fun.

Brell Gnome can wear Dwarven cultural armor (enchanted imbued) and use summon beer neck.

[Pillow Armadillo]

Fashion and roleplay-purposes aside I feel like there are only four meaningful race/diety combos.


Gnome
+ Wallhack
+ Can wear robe

Personally I don’t care abour raid minmax and I wanna be able to lull/pacify.

But how important is sneak, maybe I could get away with a Halfling if I were to max cha? When are fear and snare clickies really used? Halflings can sort of wallhack too, in fact most races can. Faction doesn’t matter much when you can sneak.

Halfling > All? Or should I go hooman!?

Chiming in on the lesser-played gnome option, but if you can get your hands on a set of cultural armor (Clockwork Watchman armor), gnome cleric can use the following clickies at level 20:

Battery Vision (see invis)
Invisibility Cloak (self-only invis)
Steam Overload (strength buff)
Grease Injection (SoW)
Mystic Precision (agility buff)

There's a summon wrench on the bracer and a short 40% haste somewhere else, but the set also has Velious plate graphics so that's cool.

Tinkering clerics >> everything else. Downside are the low strength stats, but the race/class combo checks all the other boxes for me.

[Blingy]

Dwarf
+ Good stats for raiding
+ Barrel roll

Personally I don’t care abour raid minmax and I wanna be able to lull/pacify.



Unless you put 25 of your starting points into charisma (the rest to agility) and carry around a fair amount of charisma gear you will have a very difficult time using lull/pacify.

[oldschoolguy]

dwarf man

best racial imbued armor
best stats
barrel roll
good faction, only one who can sell in icewell

all clickies are useless for every race, they won’t affect much. really just play for looks, all other shit is trivial and can be fixed with gear and such.

only truly unique thing is sneak for halflings. thats not possible to get in other races. lull pacify will suck on all races. i have 255 charisma on chanter and i avoid using those spells due to crit resists. no cleric will be near that charisma cap.

[Gustoo]

I guess I need to do some tests with various charismas to see how stupid it is to worry about that stat on a cleric.

I didn't try to deep dungeon crawl while depending on lull but I didn't get too many critical resists anyways.

Same question applies to paladin race choice. And even if you choose a dwarf paladin, do you put all points into charisma or do you just ignore it.

[oldschoolguy]

I guess I need to do some tests with various charismas to see how stupid it is to worry about that stat on a cleric.

I didn't try to deep dungeon crawl while depending on lull but I didn't get too many critical resists anyways.

Same question applies to paladin race choice. And even if you choose a dwarf paladin, do you put all points into charisma or do you just ignore it.

ignore it. put points into wisdom.

charisma will make little difference, level gap will be most.

[oldschoolguy]

Can DE cleric do the quest for Reaper of the Dead? if yes, thats the nice bonus for DE.

otherwise dwarf is best

[Pillow Armadillo]

Technically yes (Innoruuk worshippers mainly), but the quest has been bugged since November 2021 so nobody can currently complete that quest.

[Tethler]

Dark elves are being quite underappreciated here. Look awesome in plate. Can wear robes. Can get snare clicky neck. Ultravision. And hide has allowed me to safely med while solo dungeon crawling.

[Gustoo]

DE is a fine choice, they get shit canned because of people focusing on Charisma considerations.

If you ignore the charisma thing, the racial vision, hide, reaper of the dead + snare item makes them a decent choice. As others have mentioned, like many race choices it isn't going to make or break the class really.

Oldschoolguy - I think I still need to test it. I've got no plans to re-roll or anything with Gustoo, but if there was ever a new server I have been considering a cleric race choice and I have been considering Charisma a lot. Same with a Paladin race choice.

At the very least I can do some tests just for the fun of it, at some lowish level against a white con mob, a blue con mob, and a green con mob with the two different charisma levels and show the logs and the critical resists.

Lull is a level 1 cleric spell so it shouldn't take too much work. It's a meaningful part of the paladin / cleric tool kit that is only shared with enchanters so I think it is worth documenting.

Then again I think some pro enchanter guy already shared some logs.

[Botten]

Dark elves are being quite underappreciated here. Look awesome in plate. Can wear robes. Can get snare clicky neck. Ultravision. And hide has allowed me to safely med while solo dungeon crawling.

Their hide (spam it) allows them determine if a mob has been affected by Atone. Threatening means failed. Indifferent means success.

Dark Elf clerics are the only ones who get halfling illusion. Though your religion is still evil your illusion can be of a good race. Halfling illusion currently (unless there is a patch) allows you to be gnome size and see through walls like gnomes. (thou humans can get this too)

[Vivitron]

I guess I need to do some tests with various charismas to see how stupid it is to worry about that stat on a cleric.

I didn't try to deep dungeon crawl while depending on lull but I didn't get too many critical resists anyways.

Same question applies to paladin race choice. And even if you choose a dwarf paladin, do you put all points into charisma or do you just ignore it.

Cha is huge for crit lull failures. I think this guy's test mostly match my experience; https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327383 he posts some more data within the thread.

On my dwarf with 45 cha I was sometimes feeling like it might be better to root split than to lull split. But with 255 cha on my enchanter it's amazing. My guess is 120 cha is probably plenty for making it a good tool when the cost of a crit is just root parking an extra xp mob, but you want all the cha you can get if the cost of a crit is high.

As far as points though it's less clear to me. There are some big +cha pieces you can swap in and lulling isn't always relevant.

[PatChapp]

Cha is huge for crit lull failures. I think this guy's test mostly match my experience; https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327383 he posts some more data within the thread.

On my dwarf with 45 cha I was sometimes feeling like it might be better to root split than to lull split. But with 255 cha on my enchanter it's amazing. My guess is 120 cha is probably plenty for making it a good tool when the cost of a crit is just root parking an extra xp mob, but you want all the cha you can get if the cost of a crit is high.

As far as points though it's less clear to me. There are some big +cha pieces you can swap in and lulling isn't always relevant.

Kobald crown + crude Stein swap in makes a huge difference for calms.

[Gustoo]

Cha is huge for crit lull failures. I think this guy's test mostly match my experience; https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327383 he posts some more data within the thread.

On my dwarf with 45 cha I was sometimes feeling like it might be better to root split than to lull split. But with 255 cha on my enchanter it's amazing. My guess is 120 cha is probably plenty for making it a good tool when the cost of a crit is just root parking an extra xp mob, but you want all the cha you can get if the cost of a crit is high.

As far as points though it's less clear to me. There are some big +cha pieces you can swap in and lulling isn't always relevant.


Thanks, yeah.

I think to see the difference between 45cha and say 90cha might be what I'm looking at. Still really low but one is extremely low. And maybe charisma is like agility and if you're 75+ you're in the sweet spot.

[eisley]

I made a Paineel Erudite for the Spook the Dead and Panic Animal necklaces, and Fear mask. The necklaces got nerfed, so definitely don't make one for those.

[brandedblade]

Human inny clerics can't even buy spells in their own guildhall. They're awesome.

I was under the impression that Neriak was the guild hall, but if you're talking about the secret lair under Freeport, then yeah i guess you have a point.

But yeah, my vote's for inny human, allows you to rp being evil with fewer downsides, and you have access to fun clickies to play around with.

[beargryllz]

female dorf, bearded

[PatChapp]

I was under the impression that Neriak was the guild hall, but if you're talking about the secret lair under Freeport, then yeah i guess you have a point.

But yeah, my vote's for inny human, allows you to rp being evil with fewer downsides, and you have access to fun clickies to play around with.

To use the neriak guild hall, you need to do a run back and forth quest multiple times. Takes a couple hours to max faction.

[DMN]

Their hide (spam it) allows them determine if a mob has been affected by Atone. Threatening means failed. Indifferent means success.

Not terribly relevant.

So.cast root. cast atone
1. eemy faces a different direction after atone = hate wiped
2. enemy no longer directly looks at you if you move perpendicular to their vision = hate wiped
3. they get a health tick. you only need to have done the tiniest amount of damage to tell if they get a heal tick since they will gain a large percent or be back to 100% = hate wiped


Dark Elf clerics are the only ones who get halfling illusion. Though your religion is still evil your illusion can be of a good race. Halfling illusion currently (unless there is a patch) allows you to be gnome size and see through walls like gnomes. (thou humans can get this too)

Everyone can get halfling illusion if they really want it.

[Jimjam]

Human get the ‘easy’ halfling illusion mask too if inny, but the duration in the buff is super short. Personally I like using hide to check atone, but it won’t work for everything and other methods are available. Not having to root does help a little bit if you are trying to get a mob to path back home, but it is usually no big deal.

Most of the time for most clerics will be spent casting 1 spell - the fringe advantages of race are minor seeing as many clerics rarely take advantage of their powerful non-heal spells.

[DMN]

i don't see how hide is ever partiicularly relevant for atone, even assuming you don't want to use root -- which means you are using a powerful lull, in which case its quite easy to see if atone worked because the mob will stop beating your face in. even worse with hide you have to double check to see if your hide even worked in the first place.

i suppose you could try hiding immediately after atone to avoid having to use lull/root at all but again given hide failure rates/re-use time and atone failure rates and the cast/recast times on atone it's an incredibly bad strategy.

[Botten]

i don't see how hide is ever partiicularly relevant for atone, even assuming you don't want to use root -- which means you are using a powerful lull, in which case its quite easy to see if atone worked because the mob will stop beating your face in. even worse with hide you have to double check to see if your hide even worked in the first place.

i suppose you could try hiding immediately after atone to avoid having to use lull/root at all but again given hide failure rates/re-use time and atone failure rates and the cast/recast times on atone it's an incredibly bad strategy.

I am just seeing too many yeah buts..

I think you are just not for Dark Elves being a good pick as a cleric.

Simply put
Hide makes it easier for the trick
Saying everyone can get the mask isn't true because the Priests of Innoruuk faction grind for the clerics guild isn't any walk in the park. (https://wiki.project1999.com/Priests_of_Innoruuk)
And the illusion is bugged so you can play all day with looking through walls like a gnome.

Don't hate dark elves just cuz they hate you.

[Jimjam]

You just spam the note of recommendation quest. You stand in the slum above the tunnel the dark elf is in (even if kos) to get the note, then sly the hand in a few times over. It isn't that hard...

How is the illusion bugged? last time I used it it lasted like 2 mins ...

[Botten]

You just spam the note of recommendation quest. You stand in the slum above the tunnel the dark elf is in (even if kos) to get the note, then sly the hand in a few times over. It isn't that hard...

How is the illusion bugged? last time I used it it lasted like 2 mins ...

While you may get the note by being KOS in FP.

The second part isn't as easy with out sneak or another to invis you while maneuvered around a corner.

also the illusion should be 36 mins when did it change?

And yeah there is a bug that makes you smaller than a halfling and allows you to look through walls.