Rogue race and stats

[Lich]

I have been reading over the forums and can't decide which race to pick. Everyone seems to agree that STR is important but don't give many examples. What damage numbers could I expect to see when comparing Barbarian to Gnome every 10 levels assuming identical gear? If we really wanted to simplify it we could compare a Barbarian with all starting points in stamina to Barbarian with all starting points in strength while ignoring the fact that the starting points in strength would be wasted at end game according to some people. We could also do the same with Gnome. I just don't want to have super low dps compared to another race.

I would also like some weapon and gear recommendations. I have access to Fungi and SCHW or possibly CoF.

Thank you for your help.

[Jimjam]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Melee_Combat_and_Damage

Role of STR on P99 Blue

The source code for EQ Emulator calculates max damage based on Weapon Damage, STR, Offense Skill, Class, and Player Level. This algorithm may have been changed on P99, but here it is for reference:

[Max Damage] = ([Mod] x [Weapon Damage]) + [Main Hand Bonus] (rounded down)
[Weapon Damage] is the damage listed on the weapon.
[Main hand bonus] is always 0 for non-melee characters, and weapons wielded in the off-hand.
[Main hand bonus] for one handed weapons is: ([Player Level] - 25) / 3 (rounded down)
[Mod] is calculated as: ([Offense Skill] + [STR]) / 100
If [Mod] is less than 2, then 2 is used instead.
If [Player Level] is less than 10, then [Max Weapon Damage] is capped at 10.
If [Player Level] is less than 20, then [Max Weapon Damage] is capped at 14 (for melee, see lists above).
So at low levels, [Max Damage] is always twice the listed weapon damage unless you have enough Offense and Strength to have a Mod higher than 2. For the critera above, a level 50 melee character using a 10 damage weapon, with 200 offense skill and 250 strength, max damage would be calculated as:

[Mod] = (200 + 250) / 100 = 4.5
[Main Hand Bonus] = (50 - 25) / 3 = 8
[Max Damage] = (4.5 x 10) + 8 = 53
Note that increased damage from strength is applied to both main hand and off hand weapons, and is a multiplier through [Mod]. The level based [Main Hand Bonus] is a flat number that is only added to the main hand weapon and is not affected by strength.

Similarly, Str seems to have a role in the Back Stab damage multiplier.

Strength is also important as it increases the carry capacity you can achieve before you start to lose agility (decreased agility can make you get hit more often, reduce your class AC bonus for monks/rogues and even slow down your walk/run speed).

Personally I find str super helpful for characters that I don't expect to spend a lot of time hanging out with level 60 shamans. If you are gonna twink and power level to 55+ for raiding then the stat is far less valuable.

Orc fang earrings are good. I use gold amber earrings as a place holder as they are super easy to get made.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Rogue_Equipment

Choose a slot and sort by STR then go for items that are commonly sold or easily farmed.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Bracer_of_Scale https://wiki.project1999.com/Bracers_of_Erollisi https://wiki.project1999.com/Hero_bracers

are a few easy to get +str bracers


Don't neglect your defence skill.

[Samoht]

Let's min/max the rogue race selection.

The most important stats for a rogue are STR (directly raises attack power - primary DPS stat), STA (directly raises total health - can't DPS when you're dead), and MR (dragon roar sucks - can't DPS when you're feared).

If you're goal is to ever raid at 60, you'll want these stats as close to max as possible. You should have a 60 shaman and 60 enchanter with you at your raid, too. They'll be able to provide STR (+67), STA (+50), and MR (+55) buffs. This means your goal will be to have gear that reaches the soft cap of these stats minus the buffs.

STR: 188
STA: 205
MR: 200

The easiest of these to raise will be STR, and you cannot put rogue starting stats into MR, so I'd recommend max out starting stats in STA and put the rest into STR.

Barbarians obviously start with highest STR/STA.

Dwarfs have the second highest STR/STA and are the only rogue race that starts with +5 MR, so I feel like they have an advantage for stats because the target for STR and STA are obtainable for any of the races.

Humans, Gnomes, and Dark Elfs can wear robes, so they can wear Robe of the Azure Sky (https://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky) if you're into that. It has great resists, but lower AC, no STA, and slightly less HP than Skyshrine BP (https://wiki.project1999.com/Shadow_Chestguard)

Please consider that humans are blind in the dark.

Gnomes get tinkering, but only clerics and warriors can click the gear, so that shouldn't really be a factor when choosing race.

Halflings have an XP bonus and can immediately sneak/hide.

Dark elfs have the best vision and also start with sneak/hide.

Wood elfs gets forage and also start with sneak/hide. Other races get hide at level 3.

Half elfs have nothing worth mentioning.

Some of the things that used to matter was that gear was only available to certain races by size like Hero Bracers and Tree Weave, but that's irrelevant in Velious.

[Toxigen]

For race, whatever you think looks the coolest.

For stats, dump into STR.

Strap on that Fungi and CoF, get yourself a Sebilite Croaking Dirk (main) and Winters Fury (off), some HP rings, orc fang ears, and some haze panther armor and you're good to go. Get epic MQ'd at 46, and you're off to 60.

[Samoht]

You can basically pick any race and still reach 188 STR / 205 STA.

Having a fungi is great for soloing or when you get hit in groups.

The most important gear factor while leveling besides that are going to be haste and main hand piercer damage.

If you have a CoF, it has 36% haste which is the highest you can get on tradable gear. That would work until epic.

SCHW is a good bargain option, but only 22% haste.

For weapons, the best bargain choice is Frozen Shard (https://wiki.project1999.com/Frozen_Shard)

Ignoring Salindrite Dagger and Horn of Hsagra, other good choices would be Exquisite Velium Spear (https://wiki.project1999.com/Exquisite_Velium_Spear), Rabid Chokidai Fang (https://wiki.project1999.com/Rabid_Chokidai_Fang), Serpent's Tooth (https://wiki.project1999.com/Serpent%27s_Tooth). Just anything with 13/14 damage or about a .5 dam/delay ratio. I'd recommend avoiding weapons faster than 20 delay, though, because you'll end up tanking.

Some other random gear suggestions:
Phase Spider Carapace (https://wiki.project1999.com/Phase_Spider_Carapace)
Dragon Tooth Choker (https://wiki.project1999.com/Dragon_Tooth_Choker)
Tribal War Boots (https://wiki.project1999.com/Tribal_War_Boots)
Orc Fang Earring (https://wiki.project1999.com/Orc_Fang_Earring)
Poison Washed Spaulders (https://wiki.project1999.com/Poison_Washed_Spaulders)
6/65 rings

[radbeard]

I made a little wiki page that compares an expensive and budget set of gear options a rogue might pick if they only wanted to maximize strength. Obviously there are other considerations you would make with your actual gear but you can see that here:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Rogue_Str_Comparison

You could spend:
roughly 25k plat to get 161 strength (with no haste item)
roughly 3k plat to get 120 strength (with no haste item)

With the particular trade-offs you make changing that around a bit. Like assuming you got SCHW for a haste item you can basically subtract 10 str from those totals.

Combine this with the info about the stats you're targeting for super-high end play or use your own judgment if your mostly interested in the 1-55ish journey.

I find anecdotally that it feels like in my lvl 30ish-40ish tunes that the ones that have very similar gear but high or low str that there is approximately a 10-15% gap in damage. Its noticeable and makes a difference in a game that has such tight margins on a lot of fights, especially if solo, but not night/day

[Samoht]

Oh, that Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak (https://wiki.project1999.com/Dire_Wolf-Hide_Cloak) is a very obtainable suggestion assuming you don't use CoF.

I'd also recommend Talisen, Bow of the Trailblazer (https://wiki.project1999.com/Talisen,_Bow_of_the_Trailblazer) if you need a bow.

[radbeard]

sorry also just realized when I copy pasted the table to update for the "budget verison" i missed a few things so i think i've corrected them all now

[Twochain]

Dwarf is the technical Min/Max, and my rogue is dwarf.


However, I really, Really, Really wish I chose a race that can wear robes. Rogue in a robe is Fashion Quest Best in Slot and that = Overall best in slot. With velious gear and buffs, you can easily reach 255 str on even a dark elf.

[Lich]

Thanks everyone. I'm at work right now but plan to do a deep dive into it using this information. Thanks again.

[Kirdan]

Gnome is probably the best performing choice long term if you will have access to Robe of the Azure Sky. The resists are so much better than any other option for rogue, and far more important than any amount of AC. Being shrunk at all times is a significant advantage that is often overlooked. Sometimes you need to camp out and coming back unshrunk gets you killed, sometimes you can't break sneak/hide to cast a shrink, and having wallvision at all times is amazing. It remains an advantage to be a gnome vs just having a gnome mask for those lucky few.

That said, it's a long term choice and not the right choice for most people, really. I think most people would be happiest with halfling because their stats are fine and the xp bonus has a greater impact on the journey 1-60 than anything else.

[sajbert]

Stats: Dwarf, due to high sta and good MR and dex. Barb has higher str + sta but only marginally more sta and str gets capped out on both eventually without putting points into str. Also small race and barrel roll.

Slam: Barbarian. Also has good stats. Keep in mind slam is on same timer as backstab and thus rarely get used. Large race and sometimes has issues fitting in tight places without illusion. Has a small XP penalty.

Wallhack: Gnome. Gets tinkering. Weakest stats.

Vision: Every race can get DE mask easily. Only humans really struggle without it.

XP bonus: Halfling. Largely a wash in groups anyway but perhaps when compared to barb could be of some significance.

As such I think there are only 3 minmax choices. Dwarf, barb, gnome and in that order roughly.

[Samoht]

Being shrunk at all times is a significant advantage that is often overlooked.

You also cannot walk over the steps in Kael, so being small has disadvantages, too. You could over come the smallness with masks, but you could also pick a better race and use the halfling mask from Chardok when you want to be small.

[Jimjam]

Has anyone yet mentioned that barbarians have got the biggest stones?

It's relevant if you wanna do a bit of dueling at all.

[darkreap]

Did Dwarf with 15 str and 15 sta. He is 49 now and have no regrets. Barrel roll stat is crazy OP!

[eisley]

gnome or go home

[Ghost of Starman]

Of all the classes rogues are probably the one where race matters the least, especially at 60. Barbs can use those throwing boulders which is a big advantage in PvP, and dwarves get +5MR, every other advantage can be negated by gear or mask illusions. Personally I would go with a race that doesn't have an illusion mask so you can max your number of fashion choices.

[sajbert]

lmao already answered this thread. nvm

[BarackObooma]

My two cents why Barbarians are better than Dwarves imo, especially leveling.

My Barbarian rogue twink had 255 strength with a fungi on unbuffed at level 18. Likely cannot do that with any other race. (300+ backstabs at 29)

Barbarians have 13 more starting strength and 5 more stamina than Dwarves. That means if a Barb and Dwarf had the same gear that gets a Dwarf to 255 str, the Barb can swap out both of their rings for MR rings and have +28 MR vs. the Dwarves extra 5.

Barbarians have slam which is extremely useful against casters. I was able to solo Unrest basement 30-40 due to this. The hags are nasty otherwise. If you're soloing you're not backstabbing anyway (except for extra melee hit, Slam can save your life).

Very popular bracers leveling are Heroes bracers, +10 strength for 150pp. Barbarians can wear, Dwarves cannot.

None of those reasons outweigh personal look preferences or if you have a hard on for barrel rolls. Otherwise, min/max, Barbarian is always #1.

[Endonde]

My two cents why Barbarians are better than Dwarves imo, especially leveling.

My Barbarian rogue twink had 255 strength with a fungi on unbuffed at level 18. Likely cannot do that with any other race. (300+ backstabs at 29)

Barbarians have 13 more starting strength and 5 more stamina than Dwarves. That means if a Barb and Dwarf had the same gear that gets a Dwarf to 255 str, the Barb can swap out both of their rings for MR rings and have +28 MR vs. the Dwarves extra 5.

Barbarians have slam which is extremely useful against casters. I was able to solo Unrest basement 30-40 due to this. The hags are nasty otherwise. If you're soloing you're not backstabbing anyway (except for extra melee hit, Slam can save your life).

Very popular bracers leveling are Heroes bracers, +10 strength for 150pp. Barbarians can wear, Dwarves cannot.

None of those reasons outweigh personal look preferences or if you have a hard on for barrel rolls. Otherwise, min/max, Barbarian is always #1.

If you are twinking your character out then it hardly matters honestly. Yea barbarians might be moderately more powerful with more STR early levels, but any advantage you are gaining from racial stats will be miniscule in comparison to the power gained by good weapons, a fungi tunic, and a solid haste item. All of this also means you will likely be holding agro a lot of the time and won't really get to backstab that much while leveling.

If you plan to do end game content on a rogue starting STR becomes almost entirely irrelevant because STR is incredibly easy to cap as a rogue, which is why many people will advise you not to put all your points in it when starting out. STA is the harder stat to cap, but you're only gaining 4hp per 1 Sta at level 60 which isn't significant enough for me to advise starting a specific race just for some extra Sta.

I highly advise people pick the race they think looks coolest when starting a rogue because a rogues power comes from gear not from starting stats. We do get illusion masks though, so that offers a bit more choice.

[Samoht]

Otherwise, min/max, Barbarian is always #1.

Barbarian has small convenience of bonus strength while leveling. This completely disappears when geared and buffed at 60.

Barb is not min/max.

Dorf MR is better.

[BarackObooma]

Barbarian has small convenience of bonus strength while leveling. This completely disappears when geared and buffed at 60.

Barb is not min/max.

Dorf MR is better.

I explained that because of starting off with 13 more strength, a Barbarian with identical gear to a Dwarf can swap out 13 strength for 28 MR. How do you figure 5 MR is ever better than 28?

[Samoht]

You're telling me that as a barb, you have to unequip STR to get MR?

As a dorf, I get 255 str and 5 bonus MR without changing any gear.

I'll take my setup over yours any day of the week.

[BarackObooma]

I'm not saying you don't great gear, my argument is that it makes no difference what YOUR gear is.

If your Dwarf has exactly 255 str and his bonus +5 MR, my Barbarian with the exact same gear as yours will have 268 str. He has the option to swap out those +13 extra strength for other stats. Including two +14 MR rings (or a ring 7-10) for example. Your 5 MR "advantage" has become a -23 MR disadvantage.

In all cases, the Barbarian's stats will be superior to yours. You'll also never know the joy of slamming a mob that's trying to complete heal.

[Samoht]

my Barbarian with the exact same gear as yours will have 268 str.

No you don't. Stats cap at 255. Anything over the cap is wasted.

He has the option to swap out those +13 extra strength for other stats. Including two +14 MR rings (or a ring 7-10) for example. Your 5 MR "advantage" has become a -23 MR disadvantage.

These numbers are imaginary. I can switch rings and still have 255 STR. Dorf starting stats aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. I also don't have to swap as many slots when well geared because I already have a free 5 MR that means I don't need as much resist gear to get to 200 MR unbuffed.

[greenspectre]

No you don't. Stats cap at 255. Anything over the cap is wasted.



These numbers are imaginary. I can switch rings and still have 255 STR. Dorf starting stats aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. I also don't have to swap as many slots when well geared because I already have a free 5 MR that means I don't need as much resist gear to get to 200 MR unbuffed.

Stats capping at 255 was understood in his example. The 268 STR is understood to be capped excess, which he went on to explain can then be spared towards MR gear. I think his point is that whether a dwarf is at exactly 255 STR or not, the difference in STR allows a Barbarian to use more MR gear. After reading everything here I'd still say Dwarf is the better choice overall, but if gear is a concern I can see the case for Barb.

[Keebz]

Gnome's wall vision and perma shrink make it a strong contender if you're a raider.

[Toxigen]

Gnome's wall vision and perma shrink make it a strong contender if you're a raider.

Yeah. This.

5 MR will never make or break a raid. The dwarf argument is dumb.

If you're going to be participating in any aspect of raids outside of "get behind mob and backstab", wallhack is amazing.

TL : DR - gnome is best for raiding, anything else just go for aesthetic (or Barb).

[Samoht]

Gnome's wall vision and perma shrink make it a strong contender if you're a raider.

Any rogue can accomplish this with a halfling mask.

[Jimjam]

Halfling doesn’t wall vision anywhere as well as gnome.

[Samoht]

No, but a shrunk halfling does. And halfling illusion makes you a shrunk halfling.

Why are so many people commenting here with no clue about what's going on?

[Jimjam]

halfling illusion makes you a shrunk halfling.

Oh wow that is a real top tip! Is this classic or p1999 bug?

[Samoht]

I do not know if it is a bug or not. Somebody in the bug forums (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392046) claims it to be a bug with zero research provided in the thread, so it is basically ignored.

Until then, it is a nice little perk of using the illusion.

And anybody can carry shrink pots (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ant%27s_Potion).

Back on topic, the rogue race selection for me is whatever is best for end game gear and not having to swap to resist gear at all.

STR: 188
STA: 205
MR: 200

Dorf makes those requirements before any other race because so much gear has STR and even STA, but MR is a little lacking.

Why would I invest so much time and DKP into getting super high end equipment to bag it for items with 1 or 2 more MR when I can pick the right race that starts with more MR?

[Keebz]

No, but a shrunk halfling does. And halfling illusion makes you a shrunk halfling.

TIL. But for posterity it should be noted that the halfling mask doesn't drop until the end of the timeline (it's not out on green yet) and a pita to acquire iirc.

That being said I might have to pick up the mask once Chardok 2.0 drops. I find carrying extra pots super annoying personally.

[BarackObooma]

"Why would I invest so much time and DKP into getting super high end equipment to bag it for items with 1 or 2 more MR when I can pick the right race that starts with more MR?"

I never said to bag anything. When I said "swap out" I meant you buy a better replacement item and sell or trade the old unneeded item. This was under the assumption that the Dwarf and Barbarian in the example have the exact same gear. As a Barbarian you are +13 str and +5 sta on a Dwarf so you can replace items earlier.

[Samoht]

As a Barbarian you are +13 str and +5 sta on a Dwarf

Nah, it's more like +0 STR, +0 STA, -5 MR for me.

[Gustoo]

Overall minmax Race choice: barbarian
Reason: throwing boulders

Race choice: other
Reason: whatever look you prefer

Dwarf is best stat min max because of the magic resist racial. That’s a fact

But with rogues it basically doesn’t matter because ogres aren’t an option or anyone with regen.

The gnome argument is pretty robust but mostly because of tinkering racial bonus.

But being that short does screw you up sometimes. The being medium sized works best overall.

[Gustoo]

Why are so many people commenting here with no clue about what's going on?

Heheh

[Jimjam]

TIL. But for posterity it should be noted that the halfling mask doesn't drop until the end of the timeline (it's not out on green yet) and a pita to acquire iirc.

That being said I might have to pick up the mask once Chardok 2.0 drops. I find carrying extra pots super annoying personally.

This really is big if true.

I don’t think the disciple symbol quest line halfling illusion makes you a shrunk halfling, so it surprises me to learn the chardok one does. I’ll check it out!

[Jimjam]

Heheh

It’s a discussion forum - the whole idea is to exchange knowledge, ask/answer questions, be social and grow (both individually and community).

[Kirdan]

Being a gnome is also an advantage because you are always max shrunk when logging in or accepting a rez. There are times that this matters a great deal. This is overlooked when people say that you can just shrink or use halfling mask etc. No other race can do it.

[Ripqozko]

Also you will never get a gnome mask, sorry you don't got. Hope that helps.

[eqravenprince]

I think it really depends on what level of mob you are fighting compared to your level. It also depends on how much str you already have from gear and buffs. But if you want to compare apples to apples on str, go create an ogre warrior with 150 str and a dark warrior with 60 str. See how fighting level 1 mobs go. Ogre might very well have 100% more DPS in this scenario, cause it appears I'm killing mobs at level 1 about twice as fast.

[Tunabros]

Also you will never get a gnome mask, sorry you don't got. Hope that helps.

stop shitting up threads that arent in rnf. seek help

[DMN]

possibly the least impactful race choices in the game. the only thing really worth considering is slam for that once in a bluemoon usage.

[greenspectre]

possibly the least impactful race choices in the game. the only thing really worth considering is slam for that once in a bluemoon usage.

I have witnessed a rogue slam interrupting Phara Dar's CH to save the raid. It was glorious.

[7thGate]

Really, you should be able to Cap MR and Str buffed at end game in a raiding situation without anything crazy going on. You can add 235 strength with Avatar+Focus+Manicial so you can't not cap that, and pure resist gear is usually not too hard to acquire. Just Focus+Manicial is almost definitely capping you even if Avatar isn't available.

Jayya was able to cap MR/Fire and MR/Poison with ALS gearing and come within 20 points of MR/Cold way before she picked up any raid gear through Aegis, though she was down on HP from high end Velious raid gear. People don't CH rogues usually though, so the extra HP is basically worth an offheal or two at most over the course of a fight.

Asking for the right buffs is higher impact than a lot of this, if you carry Emeralds and ask for Avatar+Talisman of Kragg+Bedlam in place of Focus and Manicial Str, you're still going to cap out STR from Avatar as long as you're over 155 and pick up an extra effective 350 HP for the AOE fight off Bedlam. Remembering to ask for Cadeau of Flame on FR fights and figuring out your Alchemy +resist stacking rules and carrying them causes a big difference.

For non-AOE fights asking for Avatar, VoG and the Ranger +Atk buffs are almost the only buffs that matter, though sometimes you need HP if you want to live long enough to realize you have aggro and activate Nimble to bump for a tank swap.

One thing I'm less sure about though is I've seen some claims that MR doesn't actually cap at 255, either in general or specifically when facing effects with a built in -resist component like one of the two versions of Dragon Fear. Though I've never seen anyone do a statisical analysis of overcapping MR against dragon fear so its mostly anecdotal and I've seen some anecdotal counterexamples with tanks with 370+ MR off a puretone Bard getting feared. If that actually works though gearing to 405 MR is almost certainly best and much harder to do without a Bard, which probably gives Dwarf an edge.

Otherwise I think the minmaxiest end game choice might be a full Cha human to take advantage of Divine Intervention and Robe of the Azure Sky....which reminds me, I need to test the proc rates on that some time to see if they match EqEmu or are different here.

[Samoht]

she was down on HP from high end Velious raid gear. People don't CH rogues usually though, so the extra HP is basically worth an offheal or two at most over the course of a fight.

Nah, HP is worth a lot more than that. It's more like surviving accidental aggro for a quad (probably not a flurry in any place on a rogue) or a rampage while the rampage tank steps out. Sure neither one of these will happen in a perfect scenario, but things often go sideways on highly contested targets. And you're most likely not going to get healed until after the target is dead. Rogues in raid gear shouldn't be satisfied until they're over 5k HP with appropriate buffs.

Remember, folks: dead rogues do zer0 deeps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nah, HP is worth a lot more than that. It's more like surviving accidental aggro for a quad (probably not a flurry in any place on a rogue) or a rampage while the rampage tank steps out. Sure neither one of these will happen in a perfect scenario, but things often go sideways on highly contested targets. And you're most likely not going to get healed until after the target is dead. Rogues in raid gear shouldn't be satisfied until they're over 5k HP with appropriate buffs.

Remember, folks: dead rogues do zer0 deeps.

Agreed. HP is good on Rogues. AoE's are a great example, more HP = more AoEs you can survive before you die. Also helps the group's healer better prioritize who to save first. If you are a beefy boi, you'll be saving your fellow non beefy boi's in the group.

[7thGate]

I mean, yes, HP is good. But resists are better if you have to choose unless the fight is extremely short or there are no healers for the DPS. Resists control the rate at which you take damage, HP controls the max amount. Unless you're getting CHeals, the effectiveness of healing you receive is tied to your resists, not your HP cap.

Resists are also a lot easier to boost for cheap, as you don't need super high end gear for them. Cap resists first, then fill out HP as you acquire better raid gear.

True about surviving pulling aggro with a high HP pool though. Flurry rounds are rough, but you do get to a point where you can take 1 round once you're well geared, so if your reflexes are fast and you can activate Nimble once you've got aggro that can work. Really hard to notice fast enough though, there's a really tight window.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I mean, yes, HP is good. But resists are better if you have to choose unless the fight is extremely short or there are no healers for the DPS. Resists control the rate at which you take damage, HP controls the max amount. Unless you're getting CHeals, the effectiveness of healing you receive is tied to your resists, not your HP cap.

Resists are also a lot easier to boost for cheap, as you don't need super high end gear for them. Cap resists first, then fill out HP as you acquire better raid gear.

True about surviving pulling aggro with a high HP pool though. Flurry rounds are rough, but you do get to a point where you can take 1 round once you're well geared, so if your reflexes are fast and you can activate Nimble once you've got aggro that can work. Really hard to notice fast enough though, there's a really tight window.

Agreed, resistances are great too. It just depends on the fight. Having a gear set for both situations is ideal. An HP oriented set for unresistable AoE's or heavy hitting mobs, and resistance gear for when you can reliably resist an AoE.

[Samoht]

I mean, yes, HP is good. But resists are better if you have to choose unless the fight is extremely short or there are no healers for the DPS. Resists control the rate at which you take damage, HP controls the max amount.

You don't have to decide, tho. You can have both. Coldain ring 9. Hammered golden loops. bracers of benevolence. Dragon fang choker. Skyshrine arms/bp/legs. Tribal war boots. 6 necks.

That's the kind of gear to aim for.

And to tie that back in to the topic, dorf is the best race because of the balance for melee stats, specifically STA, and extra MR.

You can have both.

[Gustoo]

Dwarf and then halfling if there was no throwing boulders.

Barbarian because of throwing boulders.

[Dokuton]

For me, it came down to available forms and that ended up with a choice between Gnome and Dwarf. Barrel rolls and stats won me over.

[Jimjam]

Dwarf and then halfling if there was no throwing boulders.

Barbarian because of throwing boulders.

Ring war only exists to farm giant javelins.

[Pint]

Barbarian is the worst choice you can make on a top heavy pve server and only makes sense as a good choice on a fresh server. Anyone arguing over str benefits of being a barbarian is being silly. Dwarf and gnome are best.

[Gustoo]

Ring war only exists to farm giant javelins.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Velium_Spear_of_Impaling

elf equippable.

So I guess if you are full best in slot super uber elite velious era wood elf rogue and your guild always kills the Kromrif Spearman and allows all the spears to you, you can match a barbarian rogue.

If a person isn't playing PVP the race choice on a rogue is truly the least important choice and the dwarf MR and high dex is probably top pick, tho I'd prolly do halfling just to be a bit more jolly. Who's gunna farm rocks off giants for better PVE ranged capability.

[Raj]

Barbarian is the worst choice you can make on a top heavy pve server and only makes sense as a good choice on a fresh server. Anyone arguing over str benefits of being a barbarian is being silly. Dwarf and gnome are best.

If only classic PvE EQ had dueling for platinum like the dueling for gold mechanic in Runescape. :cool:

[Ghost of Starman]

Rog is literally the class where minmax matters the least, especially once you get to Velious, at which point any race will have STR STA maxed when a shaman is around, at which point the remaining benefits are 5MR for dwarves, throwing boulders for barbarians, VP robe for the robe races, and wall hacks for gnomes. Unless you're the greasiest of the greasy poopsocker, none of those advantages are a big deal. My advice is pick a race you like the look of, especially one that doesn't have an illusion mask, both for fashion quest and because you don't want to have to click a mask because you hate looking at your halflings feet or whatever.

[mattydef]

The best stat will always be fashion, go wood elf

[Twochain]

Robe wearer = best fashion quest = grats human monk

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Barbarians are min/max simply because they get Slam. There's no way to get that otherwise. Plus you get throwing boulders.

No other Rogue racial is unique, and stats can be capped by gear.

Masks allow you to fashion the way you want. You should still be able to wear a robe graphic with Guardian robe if you mask into another race like Dark Elf, so you got the fashion too.

Halfling mask for the shrink.

[Kirdan]

being max shrunk when you log in/zone is unique to gnomes and much more valuable than slam

[DeathsSilkyMist]

being max shrunk when you log in/zone is unique to gnomes and much more valuable than slam

Not really. There are a handful of raid fights where it helps, but it isn't required. Otherwise Trolls/Ogres/Barbarians wouldn't be allowed in certain fights hehe.

[Jimjam]

Barbarians are min/max simply because they get Slam. There's no way to get that otherwise. Plus you get throwing boulders.

No other Rogue racial is unique, and stats can be capped by gear.

Masks allow you to fashion the way you want. You should still be able to wear a robe graphic with Guardian robe if you mask into another race like Dark Elf, so you got the fashion too.

Halfling mask for the shrink.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Flayed_Barbarian_Hide_Mask

Large race illusions add slam. Used to use troll potions on live all the time for this purpose.

[DMN]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Flayed_Barbarian_Hide_Mask

Large race illusions add slam. Used to use troll potions on live all the time for this purpose.

No.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Flayed_Barbarian_Hide_Mask

Large race illusions add slam. Used to use troll potions on live all the time for this purpose.

Just tested it on my Enchanter and you are correct! Didn't know that.

[Jimjam]

No.

Check the combat abilities tab of your actions window. Combat hotkeys 1-4 can be assigned to slam and bind wound when a large race / rogue / bard enchanter.

It is similar to how barb/troll/ogre lose slam when wolf formed.

The mask allegedly lacks its illusion until one of the final timeline patches, it is worth noting. Just tested it on my Enchanter and you are correct! Didn't know that.
Neat, huh? I know it is a minor technicality, but i love a bit of pedantry on such matters. Even many top enchanters on the server are unaware of their slam button illusions!

[Master Roshi]

gnome rogue in PD robe with custom helm is pretty pimp, and its a race you're unlikely to get the mask for, and perma shrunk / wall sight is a bonus.

[Samoht]

perma shrunk / wall sight is a bonus.

For those that haven't been following along, the halfling mask will work for this, and being permashrunk is more of a disadvantage than an advantage for things like stairs.

https://i.imgur.com/mKmJyrn.png

[DeathsSilkyMist]

For those that haven't been following along, the halfling mask will work for this, and being permashrunk is more of a disadvantage than an advantage for things like stairs.

https://i.imgur.com/mKmJyrn.png

100% accurate. Trying to climb stairs max shrunk is torture. The stairs in Kael are the real raid boss. AoW and Tormax are chumps by comparison.

[Keebz]

You can just illusion mask for the 2 places in the game where being small is inconvenient.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Its still better to be tall by default because shrink doesn't take up a buff slot. But if you are a small race you must use a buff slot to get taller. Unless you have a primal weapon, which is sadly very hard to get for rogues.

[socialist]

I've never found slam to be of any real use on classes that don't get bash. You're effectively bashing with 1 in the skill. It never hits.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I've never found slam to be of any real use on classes that don't get bash. You're effectively bashing with 1 in the skill. It never hits.

It hits often enough on my Shaman.

[Tethler]

I've never found slam to be of any real use on classes that don't get bash. You're effectively bashing with 1 in the skill. It never hits.

I've used it fairly often on my barb rogue in groups in KC and the hole against CHing mobs. Sure, it's not totally reliable, but it connects often enough to use in those specific circumstances.

[Master Roshi]

halfing mask is a bit of a pain to get for average players though, and gnome mask isnt gonna happen.

[Graahle]

4 pages of bullshit when the only correct answer is Human Eyepatch Chad with Robe of the Azure Sky

[Robersonroger38]

Without end game crappo, any of them with high starting dex-agility
What ever fits your style though,
Been having fun solo in with dwarf lately though since they un nerf fear kite , lvl 46 atm easy sauce

[wagorf]

Of all the classes rogues are probably the one where race matters the least, especially at 60. Barbs can use those throwing boulders which is a big advantage in PvP, and dwarves get +5MR, every other advantage can be negated by gear or mask illusions. Personally I would go with a race that doesn't have an illusion mask so you can max your number of fashion choices.

that's why my rog is wood elf =)

[PatChapp]

Without end game crappo, any of them with high starting dex-agility
What ever fits your style though,
Been having fun solo in with dwarf lately though since they un nerf fear kite , lvl 46 atm easy sauce

Dex and agility are worthless stats to a rogue

[Robersonroger38]

Dex and agility are worthless stats to a rogue

I’m only taking about solo wise, the high dex let’s my weapons proc more often, the high agility makes it to where when I get under 20% health , you can still run away at high speed. 90 agility and under your a dead duck once you get under 20% health.
95 and up your speed want change when health is low.

[DMN]

I’m only taking about solo wise, the high dex let’s my weapons proc more often, the high agility makes it to where when I get under 20% health , you can still run away at high speed. 90 agility and under your a dead duck once you get under 20% health.
95 and up your speed want change when health is low.

eh? agility should have no affect on your movment speed at critical health. Dex will also minimal impact on proc rates since he dex diffrence between rogue races is incredibly small. for soloing stam might acually be the best stat since you can bandage up to higher hit points.

[Robersonroger38]

eh? agility should have no affect on your movment speed at critical health. Dex will also minimal impact on proc rates since he dex diffrence between rogue races is incredibly small. for soloing stam might acually be the best stat since you can bandage up to higher hit points.

Agility def has affect on movement speed at critical health, we’ll if your 95+ Your good, if not you’ll be able to see what I’m talking about , go test it.

[DMN]

is this going to be one of those "dude, disease totally shuts off hit point regen" moments?

[Tethler]

Moving slow at low life is directly connected to agi. If you have your character window open and watch your agi stat as you go critical, you'll see the stat take a dive. The further it goes below 75, the slower you get.

One thing I've never tested though, is if the low life agi penalty is a flat value, or a percentage reduction, or takes you to a set value regardless of gear, so I'm not sure if the characters with high agi stat will have more buffer before slowing to a crawl.

That said, it's not something I would ever sink points into or gear for even if it did effectively increase that buffer.

[DMN]

It really is going to be one of those moments.

i haven't tested p99 but can assure you in classic agility had no impact on movement speed regardlessof being in ciritical health or not. This is, however, "classic" correlation does not equal causation.

[Robersonroger38]

Believe me I have never put any points into agility Lol, it’s just one of those things I found out , when I was playing my halflin warrior I could run to safety at 10% health long as I was strafeing , my dwarf Rogue couldn’t until I found a few peaces of agility crap gear peace’s to boost his to 95+

[Samoht]

Believe me I have never put any points into agility Lol, it’s just one of those things I found out , when I was playing my halflin warrior I could run to safety at 10% health long as I was strafeing , my dwarf Rogue couldn’t until I found a few peaces of agility crap gear peace’s to boost his to 95+

That's a warrior feature, not agility. Warriors are not slowed down while berserking.

[Robersonroger38]

That's a warrior feature, not agility. Warriors are not slowed down while berserking.

It must be a glitch, cause when I added the xtra agility to my rogue I didnt slow anymore at low health.

If you check the wiki, under primary stats , Low agility says affects run speed , I dunno how to test it or if it really even matters .

[Tethler]

It really is going to be one of those moments.

i haven't tested p99 but can assure you in classic agility had no impact on movement speed regardlessof being in ciritical health or not. This is, however, "classic" correlation does not equal causation.

I don't think it's specifically connected to being critical health, just to the agility value. That's why when people roll fresh characters they make sure that agility is at least 75. There are a few races that start at 70 and you literally run slightly slower than anyone at 75 for higher.

Being at very low life (not sure if the threshold is % based on just below a certain number value) your agility stat takes a dive, and the lower it goes under 75, the slower you get.

As for how it was on live, I was in highschool in the classic/kunark era and didn't know shit about the background systems in EQ, so I don't have any specific memory of testing things like this, so I'm only speaking based on what I've observed on p99. Anecdotally, I do have memories of slowing to a crawl while low life and running for the zone line. Whether that was connected to agility or not back then, I couldn't say.

[DMN]

I don't think it's specifically connected to being critical health, just to the agility value. That's why when people roll fresh characters they make sure that agility is at least 75. There are a few races that start at 70 and you literally run slightly slower than anyone at 75 for higher.

Can we go for the trifecta here, how about this one: "short races run faster than tall races. trust me, bro."

[Tethler]

Can we go for the trifecta here, how about this one: "short races run faster than tall races. trust me, bro."

I'm not talking out of my ass here. Go roll up a 70 agi character and have a friend roll up a 75 agi character and start running side by side. The 75 agi character will pull ahead.

Also, get low life and look at your stats and see how your move speed changes. This isn't hard to verify.

[Pint]

Sub 75 agi affects your armor class and it is good to have a base of 75+ but it will not affect your run speed. Someone prove me wrong

[Jimjam]

I thought encumbrance was caused by the agility lost due to weight exceeding strength, and thereby agility acts as a secondary carry capacity... I guess I wasn't paying enough attention.

[Tethler]

Sub 75 agi affects your armor class and it is good to have a base of 75+ but it will not affect your run speed. Someone prove me wrong

Prove you're right.

[Tethler]

Feel free to read here (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341495&highlight=cripple+snare+players%3F). Plenty of evidence (some in-era and some out of era) for sub 75 agi slowing your run speed. But again, it's easily verifiable in-game.

-Duel someone and get to very low hp and check your agi/run speed.
-Wear str gear and have a shaman cripple you so your agi drops below 75 but you aren't encumbered and check your run speed.
-Roll an ogre and keep the base 70 agi without putting in the extra 5 points and run side by side with someone that did.

I'm not going to go to the effort of making a video demonstrating these. If you don't want to believe it and you don't want to test for yourself, that's on you.

[Samoht]

Prove you're right.

I mean... That's not how this is supposed to work. You came in here suggesting your hypothesis is fact with nothing to back it up, and now you're asking people to disprove your hypothesis.

Until YOU provide evidence, it just remains a hypothesis.

Make sure you don't use a warrior while testing.

[Robersonroger38]

I would make a video, but usually only play time I get is after 7-8pm and I may kill 3-4 guard then log lol.

It’s only critical health speed that ima referring to, and it could be a % on the agility I haven’t paid that much attention . I’ll let you guys go that deep,

[DMN]

so i did two quick tests. saw how far i could run in 30 seconds on a 75 agi ogre and 70 agi ogre. could not discern any difference between them.

then i switched to a level 14 troll shaman. got myself down to just under a bubble of health(~50 hp) and again ran for 30 seconds(i think i had around 60 agi) then repeated the exact same again but this time had the agility buff on, giving a starting agility of 75.

again, no discernible difference in speeds. certainly more robust testing could be done, but i'll instead file it in the big ol' book of EQ urban legends.

[Robersonroger38]

Make a halflin or something with 95-100 agility, then Go to a bulb health and do the test. Also I’m Not saying the speed is increased, just saying when get super low health to we’re
Normally you will slow down, with the 95-100 agility you’ll keep your normal run speed at that low of health.

[Synthlol]

Rogue Race Tier List

Remember that we’re playing Everquest. Racial bonuses are barely significant when you look at the few cases where they are actually meaningful, e.g. Iksar Necromancer or Ogre Shaman. Outside of those handful of cases, it hardly matters in terms of gameplay. Pick the race (and gender) that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. You’ll get more enjoyment if you just play what you like.

That being said, let’s look at what the relevant racial differences mean for the Rogue class.

S Tier: Excellent (5/5)

Gnome

PRO:
You're a Gnome

CON:
Weak Stats

Gnomes are weak. Their stats are bad. They don’t get a resist bonus, or really any racial bonus to speak of outside of the infravision that 70% of the races have. Gnomes get Tinkering, but Rogues can’t use Tinkering clickies. On the surface, Gnomes have nothing going for them.

If you’re in it for the long haul, though, Gnomes are the best Rogue class. Why? If you choose Gnome, you get to be a Gnome.

For free.

Forever.

Gnomes are the smallest and therefore most maneuverable race. This not only fits with the Rogue theme, it lets them navigate tight spaces the most easily, and lets them see through walls. Gnome X-ray vision is like the Ogre stun immunity. It’s just a unique bonus that can’t really be replicated by anything else in the game. Gnomes also can wear robes. If you want to be a robe-wearing Rogue, your choices are limited to Gnome, Human, and Dark Elf. Humans and Dark Elves are cool, yeah, but they’re just not Gnomes. They can’t see slip through cracks and see through walls.

If you get moderately decked out in Velious gear, you’ll hit your STR/STA/SVM targets no matter what race you are. Once that happens, how do you make your Rogue better? For most Rogues, that stretch goal dream is a Mask of Tinkering. It’s a tradeable legacy item that allows Rogues and Bards to click into a Gnome illusion. It doesn’t drop anymore. There are six on the Blue server. Unless you have millions of platinum, you won’t get the mask.

Think about it. One of the, if not the most desirable Rogue item is something that lets you look like a Gnome whenever you want. If you just pick Gnome at the character creation, you permanently receive the effect of the most expensive tradeable clicky in the game.

Gnomes are the best Rogue class.


Dwarf

PRO:
Small Size
Good Stats
Best Resist Bonus
Dwarf Roll

CON:
None


There are a ton of amazing Dwarf Rogues. There’s a reason why. Dwarves have the best overall stats for a Rogue and are the most well-rounded Rogue race. If you just have no idea what to pick and don’t feel strongly about any race, pick Dwarf.

Dwarves have high STR/STA scores, second only to Barbarians. Their AGI is middling, but their DEX is tied for first. You’re a rogue though, so you don’t care all that much about DEX or AGI. Still, their overall physical stats are top tier. What sets them apart is the rest. While Barbarians get strong physical stats and pay for it by being tall and blind, Dwarves get good stats along with Infravision and a small, maneuverable model that fits with the Rogue theme. Male Dwarves also do a sweet somersault when they jump. The Dwarf roll is legendary, and on its own is a fine reason to roll Dwarf.

On top of all of this, Dwarves receive a resist bonus of +5 SVM and +5 SVP. Not only is this the best resist bonus of all Rogue races, it’s the best of all races, period. No other Rogue race gets a magic resist bonus, and most would agree SVM is more important for a Rogue than STR or STA. Getting poison resist on top of this is just icing on the cake. These bonus resists are especially helpful for Kunark-era raiding, and their strong physical stats make them an excellent choice for a fresh server, or if you’re just poor.

You can’t go wrong with a Dwarf Rogue.


A Tier: Good (4/5)

Barbarian

PRO:
Best STR/STA
Good Resist Bonus
Slam

CON:
Tall
Blind
EXP Penalty

Barbarians are a great choice for Rogue. They have the highest strength and the highest stamina base scores. They are the only rogue race with slam. They have innate +10 SVC, one of the better racial bonuses in the game because the biggest direct damage spells in the game are cold. I do value cold resist less on a rogue than on, say, a monk. A rogue should be less likely to be targeted for the big nukes, but it's still a great bonus.

On top of these advantages, the Barbarian's main disadvantages are both counteracted by the Mask of Deception. Turning into a Dark Elf lets you see in the dark and makes you not so damn tall. The only problem is that you have to keep clicking that damn mask. Like Leo, you’ll never be free of it unless one day you’re crowned king. Some players would just rather not bother. Some aren't bothered at all. Which one are you?

Don't forget that Barbarians require 5% more experience to reach each level than the baseline. They're the only Rogue race with an EXP penalty, although their penalty is just half of the Rogue class EXP bonus, so a Barbarian Rogue still needs less EXP than the baseline. They just need a little more than other Rogues.


B Tier: Okay (3/5)

Halfling

PRO:
Small Size
EXP Bonus
Weak Resist Bonus

CON:
None

Your stats are OK. AGI and DEX are fantastic, but who cares about those? STR and STA are just mediocre. +5 SVP and +5 SVD is probably the weakest resist bonus in the game. It’s marginal at best, but it’s still a resist bonus. You’re small, which is cool. Since you’re a Rogue, you don’t care about the Sneak bonus.

You have the only racial EXP bonus in the game, and one of the two basically equal class EXP bonuses in the game. That’s cool too. Pick Halfling if you want to level a little faster. Just know that the Rogue bonus is double the Halfling bonus, so you really don’t have to be a Halfing to level fast. You’ll just need a little less than other rogues.


Human

PRO:
Robes
Moustache

CON:
Blind

A lot like the Barbarian, except you’re weak, have no resist bonus, can’t slam, and look way cooler. Okay, maybe not much like a Barbarian at all.

Humans kill it on style points, but not much else. Stats are mediocre. No resist bonus to help out. You’re blind, but it’s late Velious. It isn’t so hard to fix anymore. Click your mask or buy a Crown of King Tranix. You get to wear robes and look cool. What else do you want?


C Tier: Bad (2/5)

Wood Elf

PRO:
None

CON:
Weak Stats

Your stats are bad. You get Forage in return. Be a Wood Elf if you want to be a Wood Elf.


Half Elf

PRO:
None

CON:
Weak Stats

Your stats are bad. You get nothing in return. Be a Half Elf if you want to be a Half Elf.


F Tier: Terrible (1/5)

Dark Elf

PRO:
Ultravision

CON:
Weak Stats

Dark elves are awesome. They are the only race with Ultravision. They’re evil and look dope as hell. Neriak rules.

But Dark Elves are weak. We want to look like a Dark Elf, not actually be one, and every single Rogue can get a Mask of Deception for very little effort and look like a Dark Elf as much as they want. As was the case with Halflings, you don’t care about the Dark Elf Hide bonus. You’re already a Rogue. It's similar to the gnome situation, just in reverse. Both are awesome races with awesome models for which rogues can obtain masks which give them the respective illusion on demand. It's just that one of the masks is almost trivial to obtain, while the other one is one of the rarest and most expensive items in the game.

Dark Elf: Weak, redundant, Inefficient.

[Keebz]

Not a bad tier list. However, I think Dark Elves are a little better than you give them credit. They get robes, have a solid Velious helm and being evil fits the theme pretty well. Yea there's the mask, but it's not the same. Probably C tier.

Also you left off half-elves which I respect. Cursed mudbloods.

[Zeboim]

Racial bonuses that matter:

Regen
Frontal Stun Immunity
Being teeny tiny
Looking awesome

Racial bonuses that don't really matter:
Pretty much everything else

[Crede]

Gnome - wallvision, robes, & tinkering fun

[Toxigen]

Yeah Gnome stays at S, Dwarf to A, Barb to B.

Rest is gud.

[Jimjam]

Rogue Race Tier List

Human

PRO:
Robes
Moustache

CON:
Blind

A lot like the Barbarian, except you’re weak, have no resist bonus, can’t slam, and look way cooler. Okay, maybe not much like a Barbarian at all.

Humans kill it on style points, but not much else. Stats are mediocre. No resist bonus to help out. You’re blind, but it’s late Velious. It isn’t so hard to fix anymore. Click your mask or buy a Crown of King Tranix. You get to wear robes and look cool. What else do you want?


C Tier: Bad (2/5)


I like how the human advice is wear a robe, wear a crown, be a queen.

[CptnCanuck]

I thought I recall Wood Elves for some strange reason having a larger hit box then the other races and can stand back a tiny bit further for backstabs

[jolanar]

Don't remember if I posted here or not, but as I approach 60 on my Wood Elf Rogue... if I could go back I would just choose Dark Elf and be done with it. Save myself an inventory slot and countless mask clicks.

[Robersonroger38]

They shoulda added brownies to eQ races!

[Cecily]

Inny dark elf is the only pure evil choice for rogues, which makes entirely too much sense for assassins. I've had a lot of fun being KoS everywhere. Rogues have tools to get around almost any faction-locked content, banking / shopping / questing @ indifferent, whereas most people are a good-aligned race and generally don't have to use any of them. An exception is that one time you have to sneak into to Neriak. Well, that's my reality as a dark elf rogue where ever I go.

I assassinate the druids and really just everyone w/o consideration of faction consequences. I have a pretty blue dress and look good w/o an illusion. I get to judge poseurs w/ their DE masks. It's really creepy how all you halfling and barbs swap to DE mode when you see me, but I dye grass. DE isn't a bad choice at all.

[Allishia]

Inny dark elf is the only pure evil choice for rogues, which makes entirely too much sense for assassins. I've had a lot of fun being KoS everywhere. Rogues have tools to get around almost any faction-locked content, banking / shopping / questing @ indifferent, whereas most people are a good-aligned race and generally don't have to use any of them. An exception is that one time you have to sneak into to Neriak. Well, that's my reality as a dark elf rogue where ever I go.

I assassinate the druids and really just everyone w/o consideration of faction consequences. I have a pretty blue dress and look good w/o an illusion. I get to judge poseurs w/ their DE masks. It's really creepy how all you halfling and barbs swap to DE mode when you see me, but I dye grass. DE isn't a bad choice at all.

I thought you were a wood elf..I'm confused lol

[Foxplay]

Any of the races that do NOT have a mask that can change into their race (not really counting gnome mask because LOL good luck!) is pretty much the correct choices

[Cecily]

Why?

[jolanar]

Any of the races that do NOT have a mask that can change into their race (not really counting gnome mask because LOL good luck!) is pretty much the correct choices

I thought this too when I chose Wood Elf... but it is so incredibly tedious to have to click an item every 30 minute or every time you zone to look like the race you want to look like.

Seriously if you want to look like a dark elf then playing any other race because of the mask is a really not great idea. Especially considering there is no meaningful benefits to any of the rogue races.

[Encroaching Death]

I remember being envious of other races when I learned my Dwarf Rogue couldn't equip Hero Bracers, but probably doesn't matter now that Velious is out.

The DE mask is easy to get, and allows you to use evil towns as a good/neutral race.

Wood Elves get Forage, right? That helps when you're in the depths of Seb and running low on food and don't feel like running all the way to FV for stupid food.

Stats don't matter. You'll hit 255 STR and even then it doesn't really matter.

Barbarians are too big to be ninjas. Just saying.

[Toxigen]

Wood Elves get Forage, right? That helps when you're in the depths of Seb and running low on food and don't feel like running all the way to FV for stupid food.



Rogues always group, just bum food off your party members.

[Encroaching Death]

Rogues always group, just bum food off your party members.

True, or you could unlock the crypt door in exchange for food like a homeless peasant.

[Cecily]

Years ago, I was foraging on Cecily at a laggy trak sock with 200 of my closest friends or something dumb and my inventory was full. So I went to delete my vegetables and deleted my jboots instead. Ambrotos laughed at me.

[putrid_plum]

In the end stats don't even matter. With buffs and gear even at a casual level you will be doing very similar damage or so close will it even matter? Probably not. Play the race you want to look at. I bet an Inny worshipping Dark Elf Rogue is among the rarest of all rogues.

[PabloEdvardo]

barb for sta, gnome for wallhack

dwarf is boring

I did every single raid encounter on the server with a barb rogue (https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Green:Barbi), never felt like I was missing out, other than I would take a gnome over a barb in late game velious (for stuff like Zlandi kills), but during actual expansion progression it's not really that big of a deal.

[Encroaching Death]

dwarf is boring


https://c.tenor.com/6Wg_tA8e_A4AAAAd/what-the-fuck-did-you-just-say.gif

[PabloEdvardo]

https://partydungeon.neocities.org/dwarf.gif

[RubySeddon]

J'étais en train de me choisir un héros et toutes vos recommandations m'ont été très utiles. Ils ont aidé à prendre une décision importante

[KohakuIto]

If I could go back to the beginning of the game, I would have chosen Wood Elf too. According to the information provided, they have a slightly greater advantage

[Toxigen]

its gnome and nothing else comes close

[Tnair]

so i did two quick tests. saw how far i could run in 30 seconds on a 75 agi ogre and 70 agi ogre. could not discern any difference between them.

then i switched to a level 14 troll shaman. got myself down to just under a bubble of health(~50 hp) and again ran for 30 seconds(i think i had around 60 agi) then repeated the exact same again but this time had the agility buff on, giving a starting agility of 75.

again, no discernible difference in speeds. certainly more robust testing could be done, but i'll instead file it in the big ol' book of EQ urban legends.

Counterpoint: my p99 rogue carries around a Cat of Nine Tails whip purely for its low level agility buff proc. When significantly overencumbered while farming heavy hq ore, the agility buff makes a significant difference in run speed. The drop in run speed while encumbered is definitely tied somehow to the agility decrease. This is only significant when I'm so encumbered I am losing the ability to run (like 300/200 weight capacity)

[zelld52]

it doesnt matter, rogue will get max str with focus + str from shaman at end game for raiding.

roll for fashion.

[Gozuk]

Anything but Barb

[eqravenprince]

Dark Elf or you're just a pretend Rogue

[Trelaboon]

I play a Gnome and have no issues maxing strength with Focus, even with a bunch of resist gear on. Rogue is one of those classes that race actually probably matters the least. Their gearing is very straight forward, and their primary stat is super easy to max. Dwarves and Barbarians obviously have an easier time maxing stamina, but that’s not a huge deal, so plsy whatever race you think looks best.