Rolling a SK or warrior

[Qyxxl]

Looking at rolling an ogre SK or warrior. Trying to figure out how feasible it is to gear one for under 5K.. any advice?

[Crede]

You can gear either of them for 5k, sk will be more ideal for solo fear kiting and group stuff whereas warriors shines for raids in the end game. I’d say pick what you want to do in the end but I find most of the time the journey is the best part.

[radbeard]

in general the less money you have to spend on gear the worse warriors are. hybrids are mostly more fun in general because they have much wider toolsets, even if they aren't as powerful in the end-game. You can also get very efficient weapons like ebon mace that are relatively cheap for how powerful they are (at least on blue).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yeah the more important question is what do you want to do with the character? If you are planning on raiding, roll warrior. If you mostly solo and group, SK will be better. 5k can get you good starting gear on blue for either class, you will certainly be way ahead of a brand new player for the first 30 levels at least

[Qyxxl]

I appreciate the replies. I am on blue and will be primarily playing with a cleric and enchanter (possibly shaman instead of ench). Leaning more towards the SK as I don't really raid at all. I've seen the ebon mace mentioned a few times in threads I've looked at.

What about other stuff besides 55hp rings etc? I've never played a SK.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I appreciate the replies. I am on blue and will be primarily playing with a cleric and enchanter (possibly shaman instead of ench). Leaning more towards the SK as I don't really raid at all. I've seen the ebon mace mentioned a few times in threads I've looked at.

What about other stuff besides 55hp rings etc? I've never played a SK.

For your budget something like this would work:

Ebon Mace - 1.5k or a bit less.
Silver Chitin Hand Wraps - 500pp or a bit less.
Clay Guardian Shield - 150pp or a bit less.
2x 5/55 HP rings - 500pp or a bit less.
2x Orc Fang Earrings - 400pp or a bit less.
Full set of Crustacean Shell Armor - 1k or a bit less. Don't buy gloves or shield since you already have Silver Chitin Hand Wraps and Clay Guardian Shield.
Chipped Velium Amulet - 100pp or a bit less.
Spiked Steel Wrap - 50pp or a bit less
Worked Dragonwing Mantle - 300pp or a bit less
Ancient Seahorse Hide Cloak - 300pp or a bit less.
Goblin Forged Iron Mask - 30pp or a bit less. Can probably find it on merchants.
Sarnak Backstabber (For ranged slot) - 150pp or a bit less.

This may not be an absolutely perfect list, but it gets you fully slotted out for just under 5k. I am generally listing the higher end price, so you could shave off a few hundred pp easily if you can talk the seller down a bit. Since some of these pieces are quite cheap you may be waiting a little while to buy them (not as many sellers). Some of the items like the mask you can farm yourself if you have a high level character.

If you have a tiny bit of money left over buy a cheap 1hs, 2hs, and 2h blunt weapon for training your weapon skills. You can use the Sarnak Backstabber to train piercing. Buy some Hand Made Backpacks as well. You can farm Shralok packs yourself once you get to level 20 or so, those will be the best bang for your buck in terms of cheap bags.

Good Luck!

[Qyxxl]

For your budget something like this would work:

Ebon Mace - 1.5k or a bit less.
Silver Chitin Hand Wraps - 500pp or a bit less.
Clay Guardian Shield - 150pp or a bit less.
2x 5/55 HP rings - 500pp or a bit less.
2x Orc Fang Earrings - 400pp or a bit less.
Full set of Crustacean Shell Armor - 1k or a bit less. Don't buy gloves or shield since you already have Silver Chitin Hand Wraps and Clay Guardian Shield.
Chipped Velium Amulet - 100pp or a bit less.
Spiked Steel Wrap - 50pp or a bit less
Worked Dragonwing Mantle - 300pp or a bit less
Ancient Seahorse Hide Cloak - 300pp or a bit less.
Goblin Forged Iron Mask - 30pp or a bit less. Can probably find it on merchants.
Sarnak Backstabber (For ranged slot) - 150pp or a bit less.

This may not be an absolutely perfect list, but it gets you fully slotted out for just under 5k. I am generally listing the higher end price, so you could shave off a few hundred pp easily if you can talk the seller down a bit. Since some of these pieces are quite cheap you may be waiting a little while to buy them (not as many sellers). Some of the items like the mask you can farm yourself if you have a high level character.

If you have a tiny bit of money left over buy a cheap 1hs, 2hs, and 2h blunt weapon for training your weapon skills. You can use the Sarnak Backstabber to train piercing. Buy some Hand Made Backpacks as well. You can farm Shralok packs yourself once you get to level 20 or so, those will be the best bang for your buck in terms of cheap bags.

Good Luck!


Thanks a ton! I've got a 54 druid and 49 monk. Some of the gear I can swap from the monk (schw) but other than that I'll be tunnelquesting for a bit!

[oldschoolguy]

IIRC a warrior can't solo to 60, but an SK can due to fear kiting. I don't remember 50+ too well anymore, but I think you can fear kite even white cons in the 50's if you have good gear. Again this might be "fake news" because memory might be fuzzy.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

IIRC a warrior can't solo to 60, but an SK can due to fear kiting. I don't remember 50+ too well anymore, but I think you can fear kite even white cons in the 50's if you have good gear. Again this might be "fake news" because memory might be fuzzy.

You can certainly solo a Warrior to 60. But yes, it is harder to solo a Warrior to 60 than a Shadowknight. SK's have a lot more utility available to them, which tends to make up for their lower DPS.

[Toxigen]

I appreciate the replies. I am on blue and will be primarily playing with a cleric and enchanter (possibly shaman instead of ench). Leaning more towards the SK as I don't really raid at all. I've seen the ebon mace mentioned a few times in threads I've looked at.



You can play either one since the cleric and enchanter are going to do 95% of the work.

[Lampolo]

War better than sk for almost everything especially ench/clr trio. Dont isten to these fools. They just repeating nonsense. Sk is good at protecting shitty dps from tthemselves and doing some fd, pet trickery

[DeathsSilkyMist]

War better than sk for almost everything especially ench/clr trio. Dont isten to these fools. They just repeating nonsense. Sk is good at protecting shitty dps from tthemselves and doing some fd, pet trickery

Not really sure what you are basing this on. Paladins and Shadowknights are generally the superior solo/group tank over Warriors. Their utility and snap agro far outweighs the higher dps of a Warrior. Warriors are by far the superior raid tank.

The only time warriors beat out Shadowknights or Paladins in a group setting is if you are fighting a tougher mob like Brother Qwinn, where you generally need a Warrior to disc.

[Jimjam]

They’re both great! SKs suit tactical play, Wars strategic command.

[Keebz]

SK is better for that trio until defensive at 55 after which warrior is going to be more valuable.

Either is good, but I'd ultimately suggest warrior for most people. I say this having played my SK to 60 and having multiple 50+ warriors.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It depends on if the third person sticks with Enchanter, or goes Shaman. If the third person goes Shaman, SK will be better because a Cleric/Warrior/Shaman trio is very limited on pulling. You would have to rely on the Cleric to lull, which is going to significantly hurt their ability to regenerate mana. You could also root CC with the Shaman, but that can be dangerous and very mana heavy, especially before Torpor.

If the third person goes Enchanter, I agree Warrior may be the better option in this scenario. The Enchanter can do the pulling, and if this group sticks together and hits 60, they could do some specific money camps that would benefit more from a Warrior's ability to disc. But it does depend on what camps they are aiming for. Cleric/Shadowknight/Enchanter would be better for Fungi Tunic camp, for example.

OP says he doesn't raid, so he has more flexibility on tank choice. However, I do agree with Keebz that rolling Warrior is a safer bet from a future proofing perspective. People change over time, and you may regret rolling an SK if you suddenly get the urge to go ham on raiding. Sadly SKs are the worst raiding class in the game, so you should be very aware of that, especially since most people take a long time to level a character to 60.

[Stroboo]

SKs are a lot more fun

if there is a grp member that can root, warriors are more effective in almost all situations though...

[Toxigen]

I sometimes wonder if people even read the fucking OPs on these forums.

Its cler / enc / XXX

The optimal decision is war. SK isn't bad and will give you options if you ever find yourself in a group of immensely shitty players (common on P99).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I sometimes wonder if people even read the fucking OPs on these forums.

Its cler / enc / XXX

The optimal decision is war. SK isn't bad and will give you options if you ever find yourself in a group of immensely shitty players (common on P99).

I appreciate the replies. I am on blue and will be primarily playing with a cleric and enchanter (possibly shaman instead of ench). Leaning more towards the SK as I don't really raid at all. I've seen the ebon mace mentioned a few times in threads I've looked at.

What about other stuff besides 55hp rings etc? I've never played a SK.

OP did mention the Enchanter might be a Shaman, so it does depend on if that is the case. OP doesn't mention what type of camps he wants to go after, so it's a little difficult to make a one size fits all answer with the lack of info. If you want to level with friends and camp fungis, Cleric/Shadowknight/Enchanter would be the way to go.

For other camps Cleric/Warrior/Enchanter would be better. And if they end up going Cleric/Shaman/XXX, then SK would be better for pulling, unless they have a very specific scenario in mind.

[Lampolo]

Not really sure what you are basing this on. Paladins and Shadowknights are generally the superior solo/group tank over Warriors. Their utility and snap agro far outweighs the higher dps of a Warrior. Warriors are by far the superior raid tank.

The only time warriors beat out Shadowknights or Paladins in a group setting is if you are fighting a tougher mob like Brother Qwinn, where you generally need a Warrior to disc.

They just repeating nonsense

[Lampolo]

Any chanter clerics i know that have lots of xp in this game and actually kill stuff would cringe at sk or pally over war or even monk. sorry bruh. they are almost in ranger department for trio's and groups.

[Toxigen]

Any chanter clerics i know that have lots of xp in this game and actually kill stuff would cringe at sk or pally over war or even monk. sorry bruh. they are almost in ranger department for trio's and groups.

pretty much this

DPS is king - and wars do far more dmg than SKs and Paladoods....all the more reason for war if it were cleric + shaman instead of cleric + enc

lets not forget disciplines and zerk

but DSM will argue any point into oblivion despite real-world facts stating otherwise

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Any chanter clerics i know that have lots of xp in this game and actually kill stuff would cringe at sk or pally over war or even monk. sorry bruh. they are almost in ranger department for trio's and groups.

You clearly don't play the game much, and the "No true scottsman" fallacy isn't evidence you are correct:) I think you forget the point about having an enchanter. You already have good DPS for the majority of camps. Mobs will die so fast the tank DPS is irrelevant. Also, if the Enchanter is doing everything from Charming to pulling, you are losing time unless the enchanter is a god. This offsets the faster kill speeds. Having the tank pull can split the tasks better.


but DSM will argue any point into oblivion despite real-world facts stating otherwise

I know you like repeating this, but it is honestly pretty cringe. But I guess when you don't have a good argument or facts, it is the only thing you can say to attempt to sound intelligent.

And since neither of you read my later posts, you would see that I agree Warriors are better with Cleric and Ench at specific camps. But if you have camped Fungi Tunic, for example, that group would take a good SK over a warrior any day of the week. It depends on the camp to be honest, and OP hasn't revealed his end game goals. He doesn't raid, so we don't know what he wants to do when the SK vs. Warrior debate starts to really matter.

[Lampolo]

Silky you are just in denial cause you got fooled by the same trash your spewing and rolled an sk. Don't keep this protect the hybrids image thing up. Nobody cares if your toon is a gimp but you. Wars are better in trios, groups and raids hands down all day easy no argument. I mean unless better is about fashion or so.ething for you. Sks were more useful when everyone was doing spec ops, training eachother for loot

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Silky you are just in denial cause you got fooled by the same trash your spewing and rolled an sk. Don't keep this protect the hybrids image thing up. Nobody cares if your toon is a gimp but you. Wars are better in trios, groups and raids hands down all day easy no argument. I mean unless better is about fashion or so.ething for you. Sks were more useful when everyone was doing spec ops, training eachother for loot

Straight to the insults, without even an attempt to back up your points. You don't read either. Quit while your behind:)

[Lampolo]

Quit ruining everyones group comps

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Quit ruining everyones group comps

How am I ruining group comps? I will re-iterate my points for people interested in how the game works. You do no appear to be interested in an actual discussion, or care about how the game works.

1. Paladins/Shadowknights are generally superior as tanks for leveling groups. For a large portion of players on P99, this is the vast majority of their play time. Their utility and snap agro are better than a Warriors. In leveling groups mobs die so fast it doesn't really matter how your DPS composition is set up, and you don't need disciplines of any kind. If the majority of players truly cared about min/maxing DPS in group scenarios, under-geared players would never be allowed to group. This clearly isn't the case.

2. Shadowknights specifically are superior to Warriors in groups where pulling is an important aspect. Fungi Tunic camp is a perfect example. You would always pick a Monk or Shadowknight in a Cleric/Enchanter/XXX trio. You need the extra pulling power, you don't need disciplines, and DPS doesn't matter that much.

3. Warriors are superior to hybrids in any tanking situation that needs disciplines, whether this is solo, group, or raid. This is why Shadowknights are generally the worst raid class. They have no good disciplines, and they don't even have Divine Strength or SoulFire like Paladins. On P99 life taps are nerfed, and guilds aren't interested in doing the Harm Touch spamming strategy. Guilds also do not use SKs for pulling.

Making a blanket statement like "Warrirors are always better" is just wrong and unhelpful. As I mentioned earlier, I agree with Keebz that if you are a player that worries about changing their mind about a character later on down the road, Warrior is the safest bet. They get more useful as they progress, whereas Paladins and Shadowknights always have a certain level of usefulness, but never surpass the overall potential of a Warrior.

Hopefully OP responds to this thread at some point, because we may be able to determine what his end game goals are (if any). My assumption has been he doesn't care too much about end game, because he doesn't raid. But I don't know for sure, it is just an assumption.

[Lampolo]

You are just repeating concensus that is wrong. You need to stop

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You are just repeating concensus that is wrong. You need to stop

I will happily admit I am wrong if you can provide any evidence or sensible logic besides the "No true Scottman" fallacy and "I am right, you are wrong!".

I have played an SK for years, so I know quite well where their strengths and weaknesses lie. I have also played my Shaman for years, so I know which tank classes I like to work with. The answer is... it depends on what you are camping:)

[Crede]

I agree with DSM today, SK is the correct answer here. Unless someone can provide a massive list of trioable mobs that actually require war disc to win, there's no reason to roll a warrior with this comp based on the fact that OP already stated he has no desire to raid. It's going to be super boring as well for the war. SK will be more fun, more useful, and with a bit less dps now that they're on the same damage table. This is one of the few compositions where hybrids really shine, and I'd go ogre SK specifically as well to enjoy the additional FSI benefits for attempting some crazy pulls.

[Danth]

I will happily admit I am wrong if you can provide any evidence or sensible logic besides the "No true Scottman" fallacy and "I am right, you are wrong!".

He doesn't have any of that. He's just knows a SK can't tank avatar of war therefore it must be useless for everything else down to blackburrow too.

Nobody's going to notice the difference in damage dealt between a SK and War when you have a charm pet as the main source of offense. In truth nobody's going to notice much of a difference between them most the time in general in that trio. Really the Cleric/Ench will be tired of carrying the tank they don't need regardless of which it is. Once in awhile you might fight something where /disc defensive is useful, or where feign splitting is useful, but mostly the tank is a carry. The best tank type to add to that duo would probably be paladin since it adds another stun for charm breaks and can duo with the enchanter nicely if the cleric happens to not log on, but the original poster didn't mention that.

Replace the enchanter with a shaman and the SK pulls farther ahead due to pulling. You don't want your cleric (and only rezzer) doing your pulling.

Danth

[Jimjam]

From 30+ I imagine the sk/war is gonna be mainly pulling / positioning adds to be CCd while the charm pet does a lot of the work.

My first static was enc/dru/sk (later swapping to war, then even later swap to cleric and monk) and honestly the melee had to make itself useful in things apart from melee otherwise it would just slow down xp compared to the casters just doing charm shenanigans.

52+ perhaps the warrior can clinch boss fights with evasive/defensive. SK may be able to do some cooler pulls / corpse recoveries.

Most of the time the difference won't be as large as people are making out.

[Lampolo]

1. Paladins/Shadowknights are generally superior as tanks for leveling groups. For a large portion of players on P99, this is the vast majority of their play time. Their utility and snap agro are better than a Warriors. In leveling groups mobs die so fast it doesn't really matter how your DPS composition is set up, and you don't need disciplines of any kind. If the majority of players truly cared about min/maxing DPS in group scenarios, under-geared players would never be allowed to group. This clearly isn't the case.

This group you doesnt need a tank

2. Shadowknights specifically are superior to Warriors in groups where pulling is an important aspect. Fungi Tunic camp is a perfect example. You would always pick a Monk or Shadowknight in a Cleric/Enchanter/XXX trio. You need the extra pulling power, you don't need disciplines, and DPS doesn't matter that much.

Why bother with SK when you can have a monk?

3. Warriors are superior to hybrids in any tanking situation that needs disciplines, whether this is solo, group, or raid. This is why Shadowknights are generally the worst raid class. They have no good disciplines, and they don't even have Divine Strength or SoulFire like Paladins. On P99 life taps are nerfed, and guilds aren't interested in doing the Harm Touch spamming strategy. Guilds also do not use SKs for pulling.

Seems reasonable.

Making a blanket statement like "Warrirors are always better" is just wrong and unhelpful. As I mentioned earlier, I agree with Keebz that if you are a player that worries about changing their mind about a character later on down the road, Warrior is the safest bet. They get more useful as they progress, whereas Paladins and Shadowknights always have a certain level of usefulness, but never surpass the overall potential of a Warrior.

Yes, all classes can have a certain level of usefulness.

Hopefully OP responds to this thread at some point, because we may be able to determine what his end game goals are (if any). My assumption has been he doesn't care too much about end game, because he doesn't raid. But I don't know for sure, it is just an assumption.

We have already established wars are better now don't you agree? No need for this detail.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This group you doesnt need a tank

Why bother with SK when you can have a monk?

Seems reasonable.

Yes, all classes can have a certain level of usefulness.

We have already established wars are better now don't you agree? No need for this detail.

No evidence given, and the logic here doesn't prove your point that Warriors are always better. You are basically just saying Warriors are better in specific end game scenarios, which everyone here agrees upon. You are throwing out a huge chunk of the game by dismissing leveling lol. And as for Monks, OP is asking about SK vs. Warrior. It doesn't sound like OP wants to roll Monk. Since he is in a static, SK works just fine for Fungi Tunic camp.

[Bardp1999]

How am I ruining group comps? I will re-iterate my points for people interested in how the game works. You do no appear to be interested in an actual discussion, or care about how the game works.

1. Paladins/Shadowknights are generally superior as tanks for leveling groups. For a large portion of players on P99, this is the vast majority of their play time. Their utility and snap agro are better than a Warriors. In leveling groups mobs die so fast it doesn't really matter how your DPS composition is set up, and you don't need disciplines of any kind. If the majority of players truly cared about min/maxing DPS in group scenarios, under-geared players would never be allowed to group. This clearly isn't the case.

2. Shadowknights specifically are superior to Warriors in groups where pulling is an important aspect. Fungi Tunic camp is a perfect example. You would always pick a Monk or Shadowknight in a Cleric/Enchanter/XXX trio. You need the extra pulling power, you don't need disciplines, and DPS doesn't matter that much.

3. Warriors are superior to hybrids in any tanking situation that needs disciplines, whether this is solo, group, or raid. This is why Shadowknights are generally the worst raid class. They have no good disciplines, and they don't even have Divine Strength or SoulFire like Paladins. On P99 life taps are nerfed, and guilds aren't interested in doing the Harm Touch spamming strategy. Guilds also do not use SKs for pulling.

Making a blanket statement like "Warrirors are always better" is just wrong and unhelpful. As I mentioned earlier, I agree with Keebz that if you are a player that worries about changing their mind about a character later on down the road, Warrior is the safest bet. They get more useful as they progress, whereas Paladins and Shadowknights always have a certain level of usefulness, but never surpass the overall potential of a Warrior.

Hopefully OP responds to this thread at some point, because we may be able to determine what his end game goals are (if any). My assumption has been he doesn't care too much about end game, because he doesn't raid. But I don't know for sure, it is just an assumption.

You're making stupid points that don't really apply to the actual game play of 3 friends rolling new toons on the server.

Why would agro matter in this trio when Charm DPS is the only other damage being put out? Agro is completely meaningless in this group. learn to root shit. Warrior is the better tank in virtually every scenario you can imagine besides needing an SK to FD split - and for 99.999% of camps in P99 an enchanter can do this just as well if not better.

Unless you are in very expensive gear SK and Pallys are hot garbage at taking and mitigating damage and take a noticeably larger amount of mana to heal than a warrior. Not to mention if they make it to the 50s warrior disc outweighs any/all benefits of that hybrids have. Hybrids are not as good as warriors, pretty much period.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're making stupid points that don't really apply to the actual game play of 3 friends rolling new toons on the server.

Why would agro matter in this trio when Charm DPS is the only other damage being put out? Agro is completely meaningless in this group. Warrior is the better tank in virtually every scenario you can imagine besides needing an SK to FD split - and for 99.999% of camps in P99 an enchanter can do this just as well if not better.

Unless you are in very expensive gear SK and Pallys are hot garbage at taking and mitigating damage and take a noticeably larger amount of mana to heal than a warrior. Not to mention if they make it to the 50s warrior disc outweighs any/all benefits of that hybrids have. Hybrids are not as good as warriors, pretty much period.

I guess you forgot about charm breaks, spells resists, etc. If the Enchanter plays perfectly and gets perfect luck, the third person isn't needed lol.

[Bardp1999]

The reality is P99 isnt rocket science, play whatever you want OP, the differences are mostly flavor. Warrior Disc is singularly game-breaking but that's only at the very high end.

I have a 60 SK - in mostly full raid gear now - I leveled him twinked to the literally extreme and Myrdrraal was known as pretty much the best tank possible in any zone I was in while leveling. But that's with Sword of Pain (got it at lvl 5) fungi, CoF, Crown of Narandi, Elder Beads, Blood Ember greaves, ect ect ect.

Was super fun on SK

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The reality is P99 isnt rocket science, play whatever you want OP, the differences are mostly flavor. Warrior Disc is singularly game-breaking but that's only at the very high end.

I have a 60 SK - in mostly full raid gear now - I leveled him twinked to the literally extreme and Myrdrraal was known as pretty much the best tank possible in any zone I was in while leveling. But that's with Sword of Pain (got it at lvl 5) fungi, CoF, Crown of Narandi, Elder Beads, Blood Ember greaves, ect ect ect.

Was super fun on SK

Yup, agreed. In OP's case, I would only advise him to roll Warrior if he has doubts about whether or not he wants to raid later on. In that case Warrior is the safest bet. Or if OP has some very specific camps in mind his other two friends are planning on doing at high levels. In that case his choice would depend on the camps in question.

[Toxigen]

Ideally the OP just rolls a monk, honestly.

Best of most worlds.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ideally the OP just rolls a monk, honestly.

Best of most worlds.

I do agree. Monk would overall be better for OP's trio if we removed the requirement of SK or Warrior.

EDIT: Nevermind. Should have read OP's posts again. The reason why OP isn't rolling a Monk is because he already has a level 49 Monk. I would imagine if he just wanted to roll another Monk, he wouldn't be asking about SKs vs. Warriors in the first place.

[Bardp1999]

Monks are fucking TERRIBLE tanks until high lvl or fungi

Source: My first character on the server was a monk that i lvled to 60 untwinked

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Monks are fucking TERRIBLE tanks until high lvl or fungi

Source: My first character on the server was a monk that i lvled to 60 untwinked

You are correct. Monks take more gear to get going in the tankiness department, and generally monks are more expensive to twink.

But if we are using that argument, no tank is going to be spectacular in garbage gear, at least not until high levels with discs and good scaling on stats like STA.

[Keebz]

So I am a warrior, monk and SK, so let me clear some of this misinformation up.

The idea that warriors and monks are just _better_ group tanks because of doing more DPS is silly. The ench is doing 90+% of the dps. We're talking losing 3% dps maybe, while gaining snare, multiple fd's, shadow vortex, disease cloud, fear, etc.

Warriors and monks are better for raiding mainly because of discs. Disciplines are just broken for high end content where mobs hit for 500+. For grouping exp content on the other hand, SKs are just better tanks AND pullers.

For tanking, shadow vortex and disease cloud allow mobs to be tashed and slowed faster, prevent a badly timed charm break or resist from murdering your enchanter, etc. It's easy to say, "the enchanter and cleric can manage aggro with root and mez", but in my 10 years on this server, that fails 50% of the time, because someone isn't on top of it, or there is just very bad timing and/or rng. Having the tank be able to take some of the load off for aggro management is huge.

For pulling exp content on an SK, you just snare, FD, and you get a single mob. FD fails? Use a different FD. On a monk you tag, you wait, you stand flop, you wait for resets, etc. It's a whole thing. Very doable, but the SK/Necro split technique is just so easy and safe.

Labeling SKs as a weak raiding class is legitimate. It is hard and frankly unnecessary to pull off, but I've seen it done nonetheless.

I continue to suggest Warrior, as it opens up raiding and and tanking epic fights, etc. But SK is fun and valuable for group content.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So I am a warrior, monk and SK, so let me clear some of this misinformation up.

The idea that warriors and monks are just _better_ group tanks because of doing more DPS is silly. The ench is doing 90+% of the dps. We're talking losing 3% dps maybe, while gaining snare, multiple fd's, shadow vortex, disease cloud, fear, etc.

Warriors and monks are better for raiding mainly because of discs. Disciplines are just broken for high end content where mobs hit for 500+. For grouping exp content on the other hand, SKs are just better tanks AND pullers.

For tanking, shadow vortex and disease cloud allow mobs to be tashed and slowed faster, prevent a badly timed charm break or resist from murdering your enchanter, etc. It's easy to say, "the enchanter and cleric can manage aggro with root and mez", but in my 10 years on this server, that fails 50% of the time, because someone isn't on top of it, or there is just very bad timing and/or rng. Having the tank be able to take some of the load off for aggro management is huge.

For pulling exp content on an SK, you just snare, FD, and you get a single mob. FD fails? Use a different FD. On a monk you tag, you wait, you stand flop, you wait for resets, etc. It's a whole thing. Very doable, but the SK/Necro split technique is just so easy and safe.

Labeling SKs as a weak raiding class is legitimate. It is hard and frankly unnecessary to pull off, but I've seen it done nonetheless.

I continue to suggest Warrior, as it opens up raiding and and tanking epic fights, etc. But SK is fun and valuable for group content.

This guy gets it.

[Lampolo]

No evidence given, and the logic here doesn't prove your point that Warriors are always better. You are basically just saying Warriors are better in specific end game scenarios, which everyone here agrees upon. You are throwing out a huge chunk of the game by dismissing leveling lol. And as for Monks, OP is asking about SK vs. Warrior. It doesn't sound like OP wants to roll Monk. Since he is in a static, SK works just fine for Fungi Tunic camp.

What kind of evidence would you like? shall I go record a pug with no tank? You are the one that keeps repeating wars are better end game, not me, but I agree. Leveling is almost the best place for a warrior to outperform an sk, especially in a trio. An ench/cleric/tank trio with the same players will level faster with a warrior over an sk or a monk if they are competent and they will have access to more difficult camps. No I will not parse or play 3 tanks to 60 one-thousand times each to supply you with evidence you moron. The reason monk is suggested for fungi is because at the end of the day sk is outperformed in every department that is not trivial, especially xping.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

What kind of evidence would you like? shall I go record a pug with no tank? You are the one that keeps repeating wars are better end game, not me, but I agree. Leveling is almost the best place for a warrior to outperform an sk, especially in a trio. An ench/cleric/tank trio with the same players will level faster with a warrior over an sk or a monk if they are competent and they will have access to more difficult camps. No I will not parse or play 3 tanks to 60 one-thousand times each to supply you with evidence you moron. The reason monk is suggested for fungi is because at the end of the day sk is outperformed in every department that is not trivial, especially xping.

The previous suggestion in this thread was pretty good. List the camps you think a Warrior would be better at over an SK.

I am honestly not sure where you get this idea that Warriors are better for XP groups. They can't hold agro as well as a Hybrid, and they can't pull very well. The extra DPS they bring to the table is going to be countered by those negatives.

You seem to be assuming perfect conditions, where all three players are veteran EQ players that know all of the secrets of the game and are powering to 60 for whatever reason. In that specific scenario you may be right, Warrior may indeed be the best XP partner for that group. Last time I checked, that isn't what OP was asking.

Speaking of OP, he is asking about SK vs. Warrior. He has a Monk already, so the current assumption is he doesn't want to roll another one. If you had to pick between an SK or Warrior for Fungi Tunic camp, you would go SK any day of the week. I have seen some fantastic SKs do Fungi Tunic camp, so it isn't like Monk is a hard requirement, just generally the more commonly used.

[Crede]

What kind of evidence would you like? shall I go record a pug with no tank? You are the one that keeps repeating wars are better end game, not me, but I agree. Leveling is almost the best place for a warrior to outperform an sk, especially in a trio. An ench/cleric/tank trio with the same players will level faster with a warrior over an sk or a monk if they are competent and they will have access to more difficult camps. No I will not parse or play 3 tanks to 60 one-thousand times each to supply you with evidence you moron. The reason monk is suggested for fungi is because at the end of the day sk is outperformed in every department that is not trivial, especially xping.

I disagree, but please name 1-2 camps a warrior will allow access to in this trio during the leveling process that a monk or sk could not that’s supposedly enabling all this extra xp, I’m genuinely curious.

[Lampolo]

You can do every camp earlier and faster with more mobs in rotation

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You can do every camp earlier and faster with more mobs in rotation

This is honestly preposterous. Right off the bat Fungi Tunic camp needs a dedicated puller (the enchanter is not going to do it). So this statement is false. Can you list specific camps that you feel will be better with a Warrior?

[Crede]

You can do every camp earlier and faster with more mobs in rotation

An sk with a max 52/58 pet will likely out dps a warrior btw.

[Lampolo]

you guys dont have much xp in playing ench or cleric in this trio do you?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

you guys dont have much xp in playing ench or cleric in this trio do you?

Do not dodge the question. List the camps where Warriors are better please.

[Lampolo]

This is honestly preposterous. Right off the bat Fungi Tunic camp needs a dedicated puller (the enchanter is not going to do it). So this statement is false. Can you list specific camps that you feel will be better with a Warrior?

My reply was to someone asking about xp camps, not fungi camp. Dont play dumb buddy, you knew this

[Lampolo]

Do not dodge the question. List the camps where Warriors are better please.

Every camp from 1-60 other than fungi?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

My reply was to someone asking about xp camps, not fungi camp. Dont play dumb buddy, you knew this

When you say generic and silly statements, you open the door to being misinterpreted. You should have specified you were referring to XP camps, it would only be a few more words:)

Every camp from 1-60 other than fungi?

This is incorrect. XP camps that need a lot of pulling would benefit more from an SK than a Warrior. Having the Enchanter do all the work is going to be more dangerous and less efficient. Unlucky strings of resists, failures, and/or Charm breaks would be pretty hard to manage while also being the primary puller. This doesn't include the fact that Enchanters still need to med. Clarity is not enough to make up for all of the casting an Enchanter would have to do in a group where they are constantly pulling mobs.

You are simply being stubborn at this point. I will ask again. Please list the XP camps you think a Warrior would be better at.

[Lampolo]

Do I have to name every xp camp from 1-60? I seriously mean what i said. From orcs in ec to hs and seb war is superior for xp. Can you name a camp sk is better for other than fungi?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Do I have to name every xp camp from 1-60? I seriously mean what i said. From orcs in ec to hs and seb war is superior for xp. Can you name a camp sk is better for other than fungi?

I know, and you are seriously wrong.

Any camp that needs a lot of pulling to be done, as I mentioned before.

City of Mist and the Hole are two good examples here. Unless the zone is full, you are typically pulling from as many camps as you can. An SK would be better at pulling because they have FD.

Trying to have the Enchanter run around half the zone lulling and pulling while managing their pet is just going to be a waste of med time for the Enchanter, and more likely to get them killed.

At that point the Warrior isn't even doing anything, they are just waiting in camp for the mobs. Splitting the duties in a group is often a good way to increase overall performance. Saving 5-10 seconds on a fight with a little more DPS is not worth losing more time on the pulls and down time caused by the Enchanter needing to med.

Your turn:)

[Lampolo]

I know, and you are seriously wrong.

Any camp that needs a lot of pulling to be done, as I mentioned before.

City of Mist and the Hole are two good examples here. Unless the zone is full, you are typically pulling from as many camps as you can. An SK would be better at pulling because they have FD.

Trying to have the Enchanter run around half the zone lulling and pulling while managing their pet is just going to be a waste of med time for the Enchanter, and more likely to get them killed.

At that point the Warrior isn't even doing anything, they are just waiting in camp for the mobs. Splitting the duties in a group is often a good way to increase overall performance. Saving 5-10 seconds on a fight with a little more DPS is not worth losing more time on the pulls and down time caused by the Enchanter needing to med.

Your turn:)

Warrior has a bow too. They just tag and bring xp trains. its easy

[Lampolo]

Warrior is an xp pulling machine

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Warrior has a bow too. They just tag and bring xp trains. its easy

Yup. Bring the xp train, get a resist on mez, wipe the group. Then you gotta corpse recover. Love the efficiency there:) I don't think you have played this game very much if you think that is a normal and safe procedure, especially as you get into the higher level dungeons.

[Lampolo]

Warriors pulling is totally normal in a trio. It is quite efficient too. You should try it some time

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Warriors pulling is totally normal in a trio. It is quite efficient too. You should try it some time

SK's pulling is totally normal in a trio. It is quite efficient too. You should try it some time.

[Lampolo]

SK's pulling is totally normal in a trio. It is quite efficient too. You should try it some time.

Nobody is suggesting the chant has to pull for sk. You were suggesting the chant has to pull for warrior. Do you see the malformed point you have highlighted with your quote?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nobody is suggesting the chant has to pull for sk. You were suggesting the chant has to pull for warrior. Do you see the malformed point you have highlighted with your quote?

You are missing the point completely. There are two ways to pull: proactive and reactive.

Having the SK or Enchanter pull is proactive. You are attempting to prevent issues from the pull before it happens. Worst case scenario is the puller dies.

Having a Warrior pull is reactive. You are pulling a bunch of mobs to the group and hope they can deal with it. Worse case scenario is the whole group dies.

Often times reactive pulling is not worth the added risk, even if you could parse it out to show some extra efficency. Even one unexpected wipe will probably set your grouo back more than the slight bump in efficiency. In all of my years playing xp group, reactive pulling is less common. That isn't to say you can't do it, but it is more situational.

[Lampolo]

You are missing the point completely. There are two ways to pull: proactive and reactive.

Having the SK or Enchanter pull is proactive. You are attempting to prevent issues from the pull before it happens. Worst case scenario is the puller dies.

Having a Warrior pull is reactive. You are pulling a bunch of mobs to the group and hope they can deal with it. Worse case scenario is the whole group dies.

Often times reactive pulling is not worth the added risk, even if you could parse it out to show some extra efficency. Even one unexpected wipe will probably set your grouo back more than the slight bump in efficiency. In all of my years playing xp group, reactive pulling is less common. That isn't to say you can't do it, but it is more situational.

Making up these two categories of pulls and sounding all fancy doesnt change anything. war is better than sk for xp, loot and raiding unless you want to cherry pick and every time another class will be better for those cherry picks.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Making up these two categories of pulls and sounding all fancy doesnt change anything. war is better than sk for xp, loot and raiding unless you want to cherry pick and every time another class will be better for those cherry picks.

I can only assume you are a new player now if you don't understand this point about pulling.

[Duik]

OP has been conspicuously absent.
Not everyone wants to fucking min/max every-goddamn facet of this 100yr old game.
Slightly optimising a trio based on simple criteria should not be so difficult.
Constant War pulled trains of mobs that need discs and such have a limit too, cooldown? Banging on about war> ALL when it is YOUR preference makes you look elite, to your guild only. Raids are infamous for sitting the fuck around and rarely doing stuff, discs cooldown

A troll sk player at lvl58 (who also has a 60 shm and hasnpossibly grouped with war and/or sk) who openly admits War is superior at raiding but caveats this with some well thought out points is probably better equiped to suggest than others who come and just say waa waa waa, war> ALL K PLS THNX+1

A constant train pulled by a war with no hybrid penalty is probably faster xp than the exact same group with an sk, but discs cooldown do they not? So in essence they (warriors), in a perfect scenario are better.
PseudoCode
If {Eq p1999} == perfect. Continue on...
Else.

Make your point, give whatever proofs you have (that show relavence to OP) then sit back and be either agreed with, or refuted, by hopefully well considered arguments.
Overall, good thread, proves few peeps read OP then run off at the mouth (fingers).
Play SK. No reason other than i believe it will annoy the easily annoyed. And more utility, instant agro grab, pulling and skel pet is cute and a permanent dot.
Flame On!

[Qyxxl]

Okay so there's a lot to take in here.


So basically, I work 2p-10p EST from Wednesday through Sunday, and frequently work until 3am as opposed to my 10pm work time. I do not have time for raiding, as much as I'd like to do it. So unless I'm on a vacation period, raiding is out.

We are just trying to find a way to break into other camps more reliably than our current trio which is Cleric, Ench, Druid(me, who also has a 49 monk without enough money to gear him so he has been out). The enchanter has a lower level shaman as well who we sometimes use, but typically it is that.

So that's where we are at. Just looking for a decent tank for an xp group and maybe some loot camps.

[Jimjam]

What camps are you currently struggling to break into with that group? What level is everyone?

[long.liam]

No one here has posted any evidence that warriors outside of their disciplines actually tank any better than hybrids. All I have seen is people's personal anecdotes and conjectures. The only reasonable good parsing I've seen was from https://wiki.project1999.com/Sakuragi%27s_Warrior_Guide on the Wiki and his data showed that Warriors get hit just hard as hybrids even with higher displayed AC. Warriors might do a little more damage, albeit that might be less so now, since the hybrid damage tables were increased not too long ago, but It's not that significant a difference between the 3 classes. Only thing warriors have going for them is the Defensive Disc, that's it. Beyond that they're kinda meh tanks.

[long.liam]

When the mob is slowed, a shaman can tank just as good as a warrior.

[Keebz]

Okay so there's a lot to take in here.


So basically, I work 2p-10p EST from Wednesday through Sunday, and frequently work until 3am as opposed to my 10pm work time. I do not have time for raiding, as much as I'd like to do it. So unless I'm on a vacation period, raiding is out.

We are just trying to find a way to break into other camps more reliably than our current trio which is Cleric, Ench, Druid(me, who also has a 49 monk without enough money to gear him so he has been out). The enchanter has a lower level shaman as well who we sometimes use, but typically it is that.

So that's where we are at. Just looking for a decent tank for an xp group and maybe some loot camps.

Try SK then. For your purposes, it is like a monk with snap aggro and more HP. They are a blast to play honestly.

[Steven01]

SK + their pets out DPS warriors Easily

Im bias also ..

Look up some of Wikids videos .. SK Vs Cliff Golem ... lemmie see a warrior do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8dLmJJ9F9M

Pretty neat too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko1AKAO-dB8
Yeah its an EZ dragon but lemmie see warrior do dis

Wanna push it to limit do things other melees cannot do SK ... other wise ... you just hope you win the fight

Raid tank yes That is the only place warrior beats an SK . SK will not compare to that ever .. Disc are too powerful

[Qyxxl]

What camps are you currently struggling to break into with that group? What level is everyone?

Currently we have a 49 cleric, 54 druid and 55 ench and we struggle to get beyond the castle entrance in chardok. We haven't really tried, but the entrance provides a challenge as it is.

[Toxigen]

Currently we have a 49 cleric, 54 druid and 55 ench and we struggle to get beyond the castle entrance in chardok. We haven't really tried, but the entrance provides a challenge as it is.

Great spot! Especially w/ the druid able to charm dogs.

Just keep at it. In a couple more levels the higher level pets for both druid and enc will hold better and you can move in a little further. I think once the druid can reliably handle growlers and sniffers as charm pets instead of whelps you'll be rockin.

When you guys have castle ent on easy farm mode, move in further to that bridge area. A tiny bit further from that is Observer Aq`touz that drops a stun weapon of considerable value.

I'm just so pleased to read a cleric / druid / enc trio is doing the exact correct zone. Bravo.

[Crede]

Currently we have a 49 cleric, 54 druid and 55 ench and we struggle to get beyond the castle entrance in chardok. We haven't really tried, but the entrance provides a challenge as it is.

Tbh that’s slightly low still for chardok. It’s doable but Kedge would be a better alternative until 56-57 or so if you don’t mind going underwater. Should be able to easily clear all the mermaids and seahorses which is a lot of mobs.

[Jimjam]

I always feel melees get a big power jump at 51 (49 is deffo a bit low for tanking Chardok, should be okay for pulling/splitting so enc and cleric can focus on managing charm pet.

May I suggest seeing if you can stick the monk out to 51 and posting a gear check thread in the class forums? Sometimes there are big upgrades which get overlooked or aren’t so hard as they look on paper. Have the enc or cleric mem blur mobs at low hp and monk out of group to finish them off and get full xp if needs be.

Catching a war/sk up to the 50s is a big ask, and will need gear even more than a monk does imo.

If you play outside of prime time you could consider trying to luck out on a t staff in karnors castle. 49 monk should work well enough there.

If you do decide to go plate class, would you like some gear recommendations?

What server are you on? I have a few 52 melee spread between blue and green. We could try out the classes to see how they fit you?

[Qyxxl]

Great spot! Especially w/ the druid able to charm dogs.

Just keep at it. In a couple more levels the higher level pets for both druid and enc will hold better and you can move in a little further. I think once the druid can reliably handle growlers and sniffers as charm pets instead of whelps you'll be rockin.

When you guys have castle ent on easy farm mode, move in further to that bridge area. A tiny bit further from that is Observer Aq`touz that drops a stun weapon of considerable value.

I'm just so pleased to read a cleric / druid / enc trio is doing the exact correct zone. Bravo.


I go back and forth on charming those chokidai, depending on mana and cc. We've experienced a handful of times where people are farming the observer and gate out which causes us to be trained by rootdiggers, herbalists, and manglers. We aren't exactly sure how it happened but they suddenly rush out at us. We figured a tank may be able to help us push further, but we will give it some more time and see. Thanks!

[Qyxxl]

Tbh that’s slightly low still for chardok. It’s doable but Kedge would be a better alternative until 56-57 or so if you don’t mind going underwater. Should be able to easily clear all the mermaids and seahorses which is a lot of mobs.


Heh I was just in kedge for the seahorse fight... that place is both terrifying and awesome.

[Qyxxl]

I always feel melees get a big power jump at 51 (49 is deffo a bit low for tanking Chardok, should be okay for pulling/splitting so enc and cleric can focus on managing charm pet.

May I suggest seeing if you can stick the monk out to 51 and posting a gear check thread in the class forums? Sometimes there are big upgrades which get overlooked or aren’t so hard as they look on paper. Have the enc or cleric mem blur mobs at low hp and monk out of group to finish them off and get full xp if needs be.

Catching a war/sk up to the 50s is a big ask, and will need gear even more than a monk does imo.

If you play outside of prime time you could consider trying to luck out on a t staff in karnors castle. 49 monk should work well enough there.

If you do decide to go plate class, would you like some gear recommendations?

What server are you on? I have a few 52 melee spread between blue and green. We could try out the classes to see how they fit you?

I'm on blue. I'll post a gear check on my monk. I'm not opposed to playing him, I just figured I could tank easier and cheaper on an SK. I'd appreciate all gear recommendations.

As far as monk goes, he's still rocking some crescent armor in chest, legs, and somewhere else (can't remember off hand). I think his AC is somewhere in the 850-870 range.

[Bardp1999]

Currently we have a 49 cleric, 54 druid and 55 ench and we struggle to get beyond the castle entrance in chardok. We haven't really tried, but the entrance provides a challenge as it is.

I would honestly go to HS basement and let the enchanter PL the group to 60 while you guys AFK and the cleric occasionally CHs a pet. I think a necromancer would do this trio better than a Tank.

Enchanter/Cleric is pretty easily the best duo in the game 50+, so whatever you add can't be too bad. Druid is probably one of the very worst partners in this group so changing is not completely ill-advised. Dont fight it, go monk and just pull

[Qyxxl]

I would honestly go to HS basement and let the enchanter PL the group to 60 while you guys AFK and the cleric occasionally CHs a pet. I think a necromancer would do this trio better than a Tank.

Enchanter/Cleric is pretty easily the best duo in the game 50+, so whatever you add can't be too bad. Druid is probably one of the very worst partners in this group so changing is not completely ill-advised. Dont fight it, go monk and just pull


I'm not opposed to going necro, or pulling the monk out.


I will say the ench and druid duoing has done really well for fear kiting and charming etc.

[Allishia]

I trioed with enc/clr on all my melee toons, monk / rogue / ranger / war...its all about the same, pulled on melee, enc aoe mez, assist and burn them down with pet dps win eq! I will say sk's that know what they are doing is fine, but sk's that dot the enc pet with disease cloud suck (this happened a ton when I was playing enc in the hole). Also...root everything works too if war tank /nod

[wagorf]

war is a stronger class in general, but it's also expensive

with 5k budget, don't even bother gearing a war

in fact, as others suggested, with 5k just go with monk

[ReoDobbs]

Personally if you have those 2 static players with you and never plan on soloing I'd go Warrior. Especially if you plan on playing him post 60 and camping targets. If its just for the journey and/or you'll be soloing then SK

[Toxigen]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this and sorry to semi hijack but...

Does Reaver hit the elementals in the hole? Or are they magic?

I gave a new player paladin my paladood's Argent Protector was thinking about buying a Reaver and leveling somewhere til 55 and narandi's lance.

[Crede]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this and sorry to semi hijack but...

Does Reaver hit the elementals in the hole? Or are they magic?

I gave a new player paladin my paladood's Argent Protector was thinking about buying a Reaver and leveling somewhere til 55 and narandi's lance.

Fun fact…reaver will hit anything in the hole, including undead.

[Toxigen]

Fun fact…reaver will hit anything in the hole, including undead.

No shit? Thats awesome.

Thank you.

[mattydef]

There's either a lot of ignorant players, people who dislike DSM, or both in this thread. He made a lot of really good points in almost all of his posts and for some reason people are insulting him over it. I don't know much about the guy but it seems like he's pretty knowledgeable.

[Naethyn]

I'd rather have a good warrior over any sk, and I'd rather have any sk over a bad warrior.

[reebz]

If i were xp'ing in this trio I'd take a war over an SK any day. I'd rather just have the war pull 2-3 mobs at a time then wait for this DeathsSilkyMist guy to click his 10 second FD pants for a few minutes just to bring 1 mob back lol

This is the same person who is willing to spend 20 minutes fear kiting a single skeleton for XP tho so I don't think we are really on the same page

[Crede]

I don’t see how a warrior adds anything to the trio over an sk unless there’s some long list of trioable mobs that require defensive disc that I’m not aware of.

I have both classes, sk just brings way more to the table here - Snap aggro, snare, fd, lifetaps, etc. They’re on the same damage table now, sk with 52/58 pet should have no problem out dpsing a warrior in group content.

[reebz]

Oh ya I suppose on the 7th year of Velious it doesn't really matter which you play

[Naethyn]

Warriors do significantly more dps than shadowknights.

[Keebz]

I mean if the enchanter is charming who cares about the tank DPS.

[Toxigen]

It doesn't matter for the trio. Just in what the actual player behind the SK or Warrior wants.

If you wanna be strong pre 60 w/o gear, SK. If you're playing the long game and will be acquiring raid gear, just go warrior.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If i were xp'ing in this trio I'd take a war over an SK any day. I'd rather just have the war pull 2-3 mobs at a time then wait for this DeathsSilkyMist guy to click his 10 second FD pants for a few minutes just to bring 1 mob back lol

This is the same person who is willing to spend 20 minutes fear kiting a single skeleton for XP tho so I don't think we are really on the same page

This is such a bad attempt at an insult. Clearly you have no idea how the game works. But since your "glory days" were on the Red Server, that doesn't surprise me. It's been dead for how long now?:) SK's can pull much faster than that, and the FD pants are only a 3 second cast. I am not sure where you think I spend 20 minutes fear kiting a single skeleton lol. I have video proof on my Youtube for how long it takes me to solo in Howling Stones.

It doesn't matter for the trio. Just in what the actual player behind the SK or Warrior wants.

If you wanna be strong pre 60 w/o gear, SK. If you're playing the long game and will be acquiring raid gear, just go warrior.

Toxigen is correct, in this Trio and for OP's specific needs it doesn't really matter. SK would be better if OP plans on just sticking to normal group content. If he is ever worried about his character's future (raiding or helping people with Epic Quest Mobs), then roll Warrior to be safe.

[Crede]

Warriors do significantly more dps than shadowknights.

I can't imagine it's that significant post melee patch in a casual grouping environment which is the context here, but if you have parses in these situations with similar gear then I'd be curious to see them.

There's just too much SK utility to give up IMO for a bit more dps especially when the enc pet is doing the large majority of it unless there's some long list of trioable mobs that require warrior def disc as i mentioned previously.

[Allishia]

I can't imagine it's that significant post melee patch in a casual grouping environment which is the context here, but if you have parses in these situations with similar gear then I'd be curious to see them.

There's just too much SK utility to give up IMO for a bit more dps especially when the enc pet is doing the large majority of it unless there's some long list of trioable mobs that require warrior def disc as i mentioned previously.

My war does way way more dps then sk or pal /nod :p
Especially if zerker, look out!

I would go war over sk if could only pick one just because you will always have option to progress past group content, and also epic mobs can be triod easy with war and damage shield potions so you can make $$ farming things with the trio.

I made a lot of bank in tips from tanking monk epics, druid epics etc...that garizcor dragon in DN...there's a ton of mobs really lol.. rog epic general...all kinds of $$ making opportunities on war.

Sk if bis raid gear can sort of tank some of those, but ya...would need another toon to play or guild bots cause sk on raid itself is meh besides like tagging or maybe train out jobs, most of time they asked to play clr bots on raid.

I do have an sk also and I will say soloing is a ton of fun on sk. Solo group content sk is neat /nod.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

My war does way way more dps then sk or pal /nod :p
Especially if zerker, look out!

I would go war over sk if could only pick one just because you will always have option to progress past group content, and also epic mobs can be triod easy with war and damage shield potions so you can make $$ farming things with the trio.

I made a lot of bank in tips from tanking monk epics, druid epics etc...that garizcor dragon in DN...there's a ton of mobs really lol.. rog epic general...all kinds of $$ making opportunities on war.

Sk if bis raid gear can sort of tank some of those, but ya...would need another toon to play or guild bots cause sk on raid itself is meh besides like tagging or maybe train out jobs, most of time they asked to play clr bots on raid.

I do have an sk also and I will say soloing is a ton of fun on sk. Solo group content sk is neat /nod.

In all fairness, your Warrior is fully raid geared, so of course it will do a ton of damage:D I think Crede was referring to the DPS of an average geared Warrior vs. an average geared SK. Warriors should out DPS an SK in that situation due to things like crit, higher skill caps, etc., but it isn't going to be so much higher that it offsets an SK's utility and pet DPS for most content.

I 100% agree that if you want to do a lot of Epic fights and whatnot, Warrior is the better option, as those tend to require disciplines. But not everyone wants to build a character for those specific fights, which make up a small part of P99's content as a whole.

[Toxigen]

And lets face it the real answer OP is looking for is monk.

[Crede]

And lets face it the real answer OP is looking for is monk.

Ha I agree from a performance perspective but a hybrid with clarity 24/7 in this case is going to be more fun spamming spells imo

[DeathsSilkyMist]

And lets face it the real answer OP is looking for is monk.

OP does have a 49 Monk, but it didn't sound like they were too interested in playing it, which is why they were asking about SK/Warrior.

Assuming OP warms up to their monk, that would be the easier answer in their case, since it is already leveled up, and provides the FD pulling support.

[Tunabros]

SK if you like grouping and like to solo sometime

Warrior if you want to get into raiding (being MT is actually a lot of fun)

[Keebz]

And lets face it the real answer OP is looking for is monk.

As a 60 monk and SK, I'd rather group on the SK. Splitting is much easier and you can you can actually control aggro. For NToV and most raids, I'll take the monk, however.

[Keebz]

but ya...would need another toon to play or guild bots cause sk on raid itself is meh besides like tagging or maybe train out jobs, most of time they asked to play clr bots on raid.

This is mostly true, but you will also be asked to get off your under geared warrior to hop on a cleric a lot of the time.

I will say, for raiding, SKs are excellent in plane of fear, serviceable for train outs, tagging and great trash tanks in NToV. The raid doesn't need them, but they can be very solid and most high end guilds will have very few active SK mains.

That being said, I'd suggest obviously suggest Warrior over SK if raiding is a big interest.

[Allishia]

Wait a sec, what about paladin?! Better in trio imo, emergency heals, help stun enc pet, root cc...and they are very very useful on raids, 200 hp buff + soulfire !

Go paladin ! :p

[Toxigen]

Wait a sec, what about paladin?! Better in trio imo, emergency heals, help stun enc pet, root cc...and they are very very useful on raids, 200 hp buff + soulfire !

Go paladin ! :p

Yeah I'm absolutely loving my paladood twink. So strong. Human max cha at creation with big +CHA items hes a splitting / pulling genius.

[Allishia]

Yeah I'm absolutely loving my paladood twink. So strong. Human max cha at creation with big +CHA items hes a splitting / pulling genius.

Lmao my paladin is human too but I went max stamina...I plan to be a raid paladin one day :p

[enjchanter]

Paladin was probably the biggest let down alt I ever made.

Like I made a wizard and a rogue but I was expecting disappointment and just wanted the utility.

Paladin I thought would be fun and it basically never was.

He's perma 54

[Allishia]

Paladin was probably the biggest let down alt I ever made.

Like I made a wizard and a rogue but I was expecting disappointment and just wanted the utility.

Paladin I thought would be fun and it basically never was.
He's perma 54

My paladin is level 54 too! I stopped leveling her though till I can get a 41% sky belt cause she's a dps paladin /nod :)

[enjchanter]

Ret pally

[Tunabros]

Ret pally

*holy

[Duckwalk]

Paladin was probably the biggest let down alt I ever made.

Like I made a wizard and a rogue but I was expecting disappointment and just wanted the utility.

Paladin I thought would be fun and it basically never was.

He's perma 54

Interesting. I had the opposite experience. I leveled a sk and paladin up to 52 before pushing on to 60 on the sk because of special snowflake erudite goodness. However, throughout the leveling process the paladin was farm more powerful and is probably my favorite twink leveling experience. The combination of fungi, cof, reaver/ velious weapons and the tool kit of root, lull, heals, stuns meant that the paladin was a one man wrecking crew able to solo entire camps that would regularly support a full group.

Did HHK goblins 24-35 over two super casual sessions for instance and between lull / root camping bad pulls and out of combat heals, it was trivial to break and do all the rooms. Comparatively, lifetaps are super underwhelming until 55+, FD splitting was tedious and just slower than lull.

[Loadsamoney]

As long as that SK is not Ogre, all good. Troll SK for life.

[strongNpretty]

As long as that SK is not Ogre, all good. Troll SK for life.

Gotta roll Erudite SK and sport that Cultural Armor.. There is no greater...

[Crede]

I've done several SK builds, they all lose steam in the 50s unless you resort to fear kiting which is not ideal to me.

Paladins just have more tools to get the job done with a lot less downtime.

[Loadsamoney]

Gotta roll Erudite SK and sport that Cultural Armor.. There is no greater...

Troll regen and their superior melee stats (and Slam) is part of what decides it for me. Also the fact that, from a lore standpoint, Trolls are about as evil as you can possibly get. They wank on their greed and the suffering of others. I never saw, and still don't see Ogres as, truly evil, in the strictest sense of the word, even before the stupidity curse. Warmongering sure, and they eat people in the Age of Stupidity, but I think they're more just misunderstood than flat out malevolent.

But Trolls and Dark Elves are sinister incarnate, and DE Shadowknights are a fine pick too IMO, for that reason.

[MrSparkle001]

But that superior Erudite intellect being dedicated to evil is a scary prospect.

[oldschoolguy]

difference is monimal.

warrior you have like 4 buttons…. kick, bash, taunt, attack

sk you have bunch of spells to manage…

id base your choice on that

[enjchanter]

Interesting. I had the opposite experience. I leveled a sk and paladin up to 52 before pushing on to 60 on the sk because of special snowflake erudite goodness. However, throughout the leveling process the paladin was farm more powerful and is probably my favorite twink leveling experience. The combination of fungi, cof, reaver/ velious weapons and the tool kit of root, lull, heals, stuns meant that the paladin was a one man wrecking crew able to solo entire camps that would regularly support a full group.

Did HHK goblins 24-35 over two super casual sessions for instance and between lull / root camping bad pulls and out of combat heals, it was trivial to break and do all the rooms. Comparatively, lifetaps are super underwhelming until 55+, FD splitting was tedious and just slower than lull.

This really isn't a unique experience to any melee with a fungi and that level of twink gear. Almost any 100k twink will hold down a "full group camp". This is p99, that isn't an impressive mteric anymore.

Paladin mana sucks and spamming dw helm works but it feels terrible. I had helm and bp and bp felt better but carrying 9000 jaspers was annoying. The utility is alright but to say it's fun is a stretch. Your dps is terrible once you get past the early stages. I wasn't impressed even using frostwrath or craslith for undead zones. Like the class is just super watered down.

Long story short, a ranger would've been more fun

[Crede]

This really isn't a unique experience to any melee with a fungi and that level of twink gear. Almost any 100k twink will hold down a "full group camp". This is p99, that isn't an impressive mteric anymore.


I think we're really talking about 51+ here, when twinking pretty much comes to a hard stop for the majority of melee classes. Rangers/SK both suffer from a lot of downtime, unless you like fear kiting which sucks. Pallies ability to calm, root, and helm/bp heal just gives them the edge by a mile if you're trying to do solo dungeon type stuff. The only close competitor I'd say is a monk.

[Kurtanius21]

How am I ruining group comps? I will re-iterate my points for people interested in how the game works. You do no appear to be interested in an actual discussion, or care about how the game works.

1. Paladins/Shadowknights are generally superior as tanks for leveling groups. For a large portion of players on P99, this is the vast majority of their play time. Their utility and snap agro are better than a Warriors. In leveling groups mobs die so fast it doesn't really matter how your DPS composition is set up, and you don't need disciplines of any kind. If the majority of players truly cared about min/maxing DPS in group scenarios, under-geared players would never be allowed to group. This clearly isn't the case.

2. Shadowknights specifically are superior to Warriors in groups where pulling is an important aspect. Fungi Tunic camp is a perfect example. You would always pick a Monk or Shadowknight in a Cleric/Enchanter/XXX trio. You need the extra pulling power, you don't need disciplines, and DPS doesn't matter that much.

3. Warriors are superior to hybrids in any tanking situation that needs disciplines, whether this is solo, group, or raid. This is why Shadowknights are generally the worst raid class. They have no good disciplines, and they don't even have Divine Strength or SoulFire like Paladins. On P99 life taps are nerfed, and guilds aren't interested in doing the Harm Touch spamming strategy. Guilds also do not use SKs for pulling.

Making a blanket statement like "Warrirors are always better" is just wrong and unhelpful. As I mentioned earlier, I agree with Keebz that if you are a player that worries about changing their mind about a character later on down the road, Warrior is the safest bet. They get more useful as they progress, whereas Paladins and Shadowknights always have a certain level of usefulness, but never surpass the overall potential of a Warrior.

Hopefully OP responds to this thread at some point, because we may be able to determine what his end game goals are (if any). My assumption has been he doesn't care too much about end game, because he doesn't raid. But I don't know for sure, it is just an assumption.

I agree with this class description. I wish to roll a warrior but have no platz to make a twink warrior. I want to group primarily, so my playstyle favors a paladin, rather than min maxing at the raid level.