Feign death

[dragolyche]

G morning,


The spell seem to be broke. I used it in Karnor s castle.

I stayed on the ground like 5-6mn and it seem i can t loose agro from mobs.

I saw a SK who have the same problem in this zone. But FD monk seem not bugged.

Peace.

[Xeliso]

Kanras: FD memory turned on.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39846

Read patch notes IMO.

[Slave]

The patch notes were very undescriptive. Could you please explain what this change does in terms of game mechanics since you seem to know? Because I remember FD working on Live.

[karsten]

as a necro, i'm not getting a "your enemies have forgotten about you" message, ever. Also, after a successful FD I /q'ed out because of said problem, and came back dead in the middle of TT where i am bound, promptly was aggroed by a mob, and died again.

[Aadill]

as a necro, i'm not getting a "your enemies have forgotten about you" message, ever. Also, after a successful FD I /q'ed out because of said problem, and came back dead in the middle of TT where i am bound, promptly was aggroed by a mob, and died again.

FD is supposed to stick when you go LD, that was a known tactic when there was no way you could make a pull without bringing half the zone with you.

Was the "your enemise have forgotten about you" message implemented later in the game or was that in by Kunark? On live I never FDd on my monk long enough to see it.

[Skope]

The patch notes were very undescriptive. Could you please explain what this change does in terms of game mechanics since you seem to know? Because I remember FD working on Live.

On live the aggro would linger for a few seconds after a successful FD. Technically you're FD and the mobs wouldn't hit you, but to completely lose the aggro you had to wait a small bit of time (seconds) before you could get up again, regardless of LoS or aggro radius.

Certainly shouldn't be happening for minutes, though.

[Motec]

If its a wandering mob you had to either chain FD until it memwiped (like 5% chance iirc), or wait 15mins from memory at some stage. I think it was indefinite actually until later in game.

The 'your enemies have forgotten you' is later in game tho??

You should have to wait for a mob to return to its static spawn point before it memwipes.

[anotherfiz]

FD post kunark worked like this:

on STATIC mobs: mob would 100% forget about you once it returned to its home point.

on roaming mobs: mobs had a 25% chance to fully forget about you

All mobs while they are roaming back: 25% chance to forget about you.

Some people believed that when mobs were roaming back, your chance to FD them off increased the more times you FD'ed. IE, 2 FD's = 50% chance, but i never believed this was accurate.

Garibaldi <Transatlantic Rampage>
Shiishio <Pandemonium> - Tallon Zek - 65 Monkey

[dragolyche]

Kanras: FD memory turned on.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39846

Read patch notes IMO.

well i read this patch but:

FD memory take 2mn max, so i am stayed FD 5- 6mn. And it happened only in Karnor s castle.

So read my post before trolling.

Peace.

[Zeelot]

as a necro, i'm not getting a "your enemies have forgotten about you" message, ever. Also, after a successful FD I /q'ed out because of said problem, and came back dead in the middle of TT where i am bound, promptly was aggroed by a mob, and died again.


This definitely should not be happening. I noticed a similar problem with this mechanic even before this FD change; I had a disease cloud on an NPC and /q'd while FD because I didn't want to wait for it to wear off. When I came back in I was oom and almost dead from fighting the mob while LD even though I should've just stayed FD.

[Rais]

Wrong adill. You could /q out and lose agro. It was the one of the ways to lose roamer agro.

[Aadill]

Indeed, Rais. That's what I said, as well~

[Treats]

This definitely should not be happening. I noticed a similar problem with this mechanic even before this FD change; I had a disease cloud on an NPC and /q'd while FD because I didn't want to wait for it to wear off. When I came back in I was oom and almost dead from fighting the mob while LD even though I should've just stayed FD.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, never played a Necro or SK on live. What happens is if you have a DoT on the mob and you /q the LD code seems to think you are still fighting and will make you get up and fight.

[Auelin_]

Yes, FD is almost next to useless now. On training mobs on the basement of HS and using the portal to get back to zone in, I immediately pulled what i thought was a successful FD. Knowing the mechanics have been changed in todays patch i stayed on the ground for around 3 minutes but never received a message stating 'your enemies have forgotton you'. After thinking the coast was clear I stood up only to be greeted 30 seconds later with a host of mobs warping through the wall and attacking me at zone in.

Having tested this and stayed FD for a long period of time I never received a message stating 'your enemies have forgotten you'. The failure rate also seems absurdly high, i only get a successful feign about 1/6 times at best (this is a terribly rough estimate).

[Messianic]

FD is definitely not next to useless.

I did a lot of pulling on live, and I can say that /q'ing out was pretty much the only reliable way to drop your aggro when roamers are involved. None of the pullers of our guild ever relied on feigning off roamers and waiting any set amount of time, ever.

[Auelin_]

FD is definitely not next to useless.

I did a lot of pulling on live, and I can say that /q'ing out was pretty much the only reliable way to drop your aggro when roamers are involved. None of the pullers of our guild ever relied on feigning off roamers and waiting any set amount of time, ever.

"Loading... please wait"

I can't wait.

[Aadill]

Heh monk pull team or monks no longer DPS and just train in a few mobs at a time by flopping. Welcome to being a monk in Kunark and beyond.

[baalzy]

FD post kunark worked like this:

on STATIC mobs: mob would 100% forget about you once it returned to its home point.

on roaming mobs: mobs had a 25% chance to fully forget about you

All mobs while they are roaming back: 25% chance to forget about you.

Some people believed that when mobs were roaming back, your chance to FD them off increased the more times you FD'ed. IE, 2 FD's = 50% chance, but i never believed this was accurate.

Garibaldi <Transatlantic Rampage>
Shiishio <Pandemonium> - Tallon Zek - 65 Monkey

This is definitely the way I remember it and the way you'll find it explained in MANY class discussions.

There should also be a 'your enemies forget about you' message which means they have for certain forgotten about you, but I don't remember how long it took (was long enough that most people found /q'ing and logging back in quicker than waiting for the message).

[maximum]

"Your enemies have forgotten..." is a timed, client-based message. It has no real meaning on P99.

[guineapig]

I didn't play a monk on live but it always seemed to be about a certain % chance of success as opposed to a length of time staying FD.

When our monks would FD split raid mobs on live they would keep working their way closer to the raid in intervals eventually after multiple FDs the 5+ mobs would end up being 1 or 2. But our monks didn't sit there FD's for 5-10 minutes or anything crazy like that.

This is going back like 6-7 years but that's how I remember it being done.

[maximum]

My testing with static spawns appears OK ("Classic"). It's more about distance-from-mob than time.

[kanras]

as a necro, i'm not getting a "your enemies have forgotten about you" message, ever. Also, after a successful FD I /q'ed out because of said problem, and came back dead in the middle of TT where i am bound, promptly was aggroed by a mob, and died again.

Time-based aggro clear wasn't implemented until much later.

Fixed, pending update:

The issue where you DOT a mob -> FD -> /q, then come back either oom or dead.

[Messianic]

"Loading... please wait"

I can't wait.

It was the life of a raiding monk :)

[baalzy]

Did mob pathing after feign get fixed at all? Fixing feign death without fixing the mob behavior really screws with peoples abilities to function.

In classic, if you snared a mob and then feigned that mob would stay where it was when you feigned until the snare wore off or somebody reagro'd.

When mobs returned to their spawn point (if static) they'd immediately clear their list and not reago once you stood up.

Mobs in general would stand around longer then they do now before pathing back, and rarely would path back at the same time.

Without fixes to these mechanics, giving mobs feign-memory really borks the ability to pull properly.

[Trystych]

as a necro, i'm not getting a "your enemies have forgotten about you" message, ever. Also, after a successful FD I /q'ed out because of said problem, and came back dead in the middle of TT where i am bound, promptly was aggroed by a mob, and died again.

This is an issue. On this server /q while FD changes your status to be like sitting/standing. On live you could /q out safely even with dots on mobs without any issue, if the fd memory is causing them to come after you on p99 it needs fixing. /q was always the guaranteed way to have every mob forget you when you logged back in.

[Versus]

Never-ending agro on roamers = not classic...more research to come.

[dragolyche]

I did some test with my necro.

Actually, with FD spell, yu can t lose agro. I stayed FD 10mn, no dots on mobs, and i never lost agro.

I had to /q to clear agro list.

I think its not classic, its a bug with the spell. Monk don t have this problem.

Peace.

[Rogean]

Please keep in mind that while there are some bugs, it is intended that you will only have a 30% chance to drop aggro on a mob when you stand up (100% if the mob is a static spawn that has returned to it's guard spot). This is classic.

Certain bugs we will investigate such as /q changing your feign status and snared mobs trying to return home.

[guineapig]

I did some test with my necro.

Actually, with FD spell, yu can t lose agro. I stayed FD 10mn, no dots on mobs, and i never lost agro.



Pretty sure it's not based on duration judging from previous comments.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

What is not classic is the fact when you feign death a second time for a split the mobs all instantly return home. The fd instant aggro clear balanced that out, but if you put in the classic and correct 30pct chance etc that you mention, what needs to be fixed is the fact that mobs should not be instantly all walking back to spawn points. Those combined ruin feign death.

[SupaflyIRL]

Please keep in mind that while there are some bugs, it is intended that you will only have a 30% chance to drop aggro on a mob when you stand up (100% if the mob is a static spawn that has returned to it's guard spot). This is classic.

Certain bugs we will investigate such as /q changing your feign status and snared mobs trying to return home.

Roamers behaved in the same manner as static spawns, once they returned to their normal pathing they cleared aggro as if they were a static spawn returning to its spawn point.

[dragolyche]

Hi again,

Sry i doubt that s classic... I don t remember that.

So, if yu agroed a roamer in dongeon, and the agro s list is not clear, You get all the mobs on the way on the face...

If yu have to /q each time yu have to clear agro with roamer, it will be crazy. Althought, its classic, its really unplayable... (actually, with my necro, i could never lost agro)

Besides what has been said above with pull.



Peace.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

What Rogean says is correct. It is why you kited in fear and chain pulled in hate. It was ridiculously overpowered here, but when the mobs started walking instantly and simultaneously after a feign death it kind of balanced. I think I /bug it, but it didn't draw much attention since with fd insta clearing aggro it was still workable.

But what they did was correct with the % chance to clear aggro. I speculated once that it was tied to charisma with a chance for mem blur akin to an enchanter blurring a mob, and the higher cha your monk had the greater % chance for a mem wipe. Now I don't believe this was the case (I wish it was!) but roamers did NOT 100pct clear aggro upon returning to their path. It was always a pct chance for any mob not at rest in their static spot, or any roaming mob. So if you think that you aggro a roamer in a dungeon you could potentially have the entire dungeon come every time you stood, you are correct. You did have to /q as you state, and that is the way it was. You had to know zones, pathing, mob behavior, aggro radius etc etc and not just tag mob and run.

That is exactly how it was back then and one reason we didn't have so many clowns calling themselves pullers. Why guilds actually needed players skilled at the monk class and legitimate pullers, not the go aggro something run and fd nonsense. Why if you were a good puller your groups banked in exp and you became a sought after commodity. But be that as it may. If Fd had worked classic from the start the landscape of this server might be different. I am glad they are putting it back to the way it should be, but they also need to fix the mobs behavior in relation to fd so that it too becomes classic. Because if you remember chain pulling in hate in classic you also realize it is impossible to do it that way here as it stands.

[Zereh]

You had to know zones, pathing, mob behavior, aggro radius etc etc and not just tag mob and run.

^^ This frightens me. I think we may have a whole boatload of monks whose entire skillset is nothing but a reliance on janky game mechanics running wild on P99. Monking, and healing said monks, just might start getting real. =)~

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I don't know if you are being facetious or not. But you are correct that there are players who only know how it works on p1999 and have come rely on it. Heck the instant clear of aggro is crazy and I rely on it. But yeah, heal or buff any monk you better pray they have cleared aggro. Know your zones monks and your camps... I look forward to it being pushed back in. Just PLEASE fix mob behavior after a successful FD. I can show you the bug at any point you wish in game.

[Zereh]

I'm not being facetious at all. It's a huge change. With a potentially painful learning curve.