Patch Notes, Monday June 13, 2011

[Rogean]

Code

Kanras: Rogue evade bug fix and classic enhancement.
Kanras: Reduced pet minimum damages.
Kanras: Corrected minimum damage modifier bonus for basic attacks from disciplines.
Kanras: Fixed backstab minimum damage calculations.
Kanras: Removed an errant damage bonus added to backstabs in last patch.
Kanras: Damage bonus now applied after all other damage calculations.
Kanras: Reduced flying kick minimum damage above 50.
Kanras: Fixed base NPC attack timer.
Kanras: Slow correctly recalculates attack delay.

Content

Uthgaard: Clump of dough will only combine in a mixing bowl.
Uthgaard: Trakanon is a 3 day spawn.
Kanras: Corrected some discipline durations.
Kanras: FD memory turned on.
Kanras: Runed Fighters Staff drop has been replaced by Imbued Fighters Staff

[Nocte]

Kanras: FD memory turned on.


What's this mean?

[Sajan]

What's this mean?

No more 100% memory wipe on the first successful feign.

[Minister of Etc]

Content

Kanras: FD memory turned on.


Ogod, this should be interesting. Time to find some level 35+ and sub-35 mobs and experiment, as that was the cutoff on memblur and FD, IIRC.

[Nyze]

Kanras: Reduced pet minimum damages.

My pet went from hitting for 47ish to 13.... ouch. Goodbye enchanter soloing, you will be missed.

[Shiggy]

Yea pet damage went down a lot, was this an actual nerf in classic or were pets doing too much damage compared to classic? Looks like kick / bash is back to normal now too.

[Rogean]

There were a combination of changes affecting pet minimum hits and affecting the AC of mobs seperately; the former was aimed at client vs npc but could have affected pet's as well (I haven't looked at the code so I'm making a guess). Kanras should be able to elaborate or explain otherwise.

[Jepaxis]

Only pet damage nerfs I remember were weapon delays no longer counting and charmed mobs doing less than full damage, but I'm guessing this is more of a fix than a nerf.

[Woosa]

My name is Nyze i wear girl pants..

[bluejam]

Code

Uthgaard: Clump of dough will only combine in a mixing bowl.

OMG finally!!!! :eek:




jk, good job as usual. :cool:

[Lanuven]

back stab dmg is all fooked..good bye 500's =\
hello 85's and max of 340 now

[edward steiner]

Un-nerf pet dmg pls. This server is creeping farther and farther away from a "classic" server and more towards a beta test . Played a shaman for 8 years in Live and no such pet dmg nerf was ever implimented ( unless it was put in and pulled before was noticed). a 44 shaman pet should never hit for 5!!

[Slave]

I don't understand what the FD update is supposed to do. Make it so it doesn't work? Huh?

[Swish]

Un-nerf pet dmg pls. This server is creeping farther and farther away from a "classic" server and more towards a beta test . Played a shaman for 8 years in Live and no such pet dmg nerf was ever implimented ( unless it was put in and pulled before was noticed). a 44 shaman pet should never hit for 5!!

Pipe down, I played a shaman on live for about 4 years (making my opinion half as important I'm sure), but shaman pets were weak and they didn't add any significant dps...best you could do was get some summoned weps from your local friendly mage back then, and that's how it is now.

Is 5 really his max damage? Really?

[Reppy]

FD in live during classic; when you used the skill you could not just suddenly pop up and all your hits did not count, you had to fd a few times for that to happen sometimes, Also when pulling you had to wait till the mob started to walk away from you or it would auto aggro on you again and all the mobs that came with it and would have to fd again. This is a big deal now for those monks that never had to do this, you will need to watch how you pull now or it is train city.

[edward steiner]

no 5 was his min hit. It quaded for 36 total tho!!! 9/9/9/9 agreed shaman pets werent the greatest but they werent half as bad as theyve been made by this change. Im wondering what the main pet classes ( mage/necro) are gonna do with this.

[Skope]

was the spiroc lord spawn issue implemented in this patch? or his double-trouble spiroc wingblade changed as well?

[Slave]

no 5 was his min hit. It quaded for 36 total tho!!! 9/9/9/9 agreed shaman pets werent the greatest but they werent half as bad as theyve been made by this change. Im wondering what the main pet classes ( mage/necro) are gonna do with this.

It was extremely difficult to find high-level groups before this change. I can't think that a percieved weakeneing of their pets will help much...

[Zinramm]

No harvest spell yet?

Just saying.. it really sucks being a wizard right now :(

[Motec]

There's gonna be a lot of monks suddenly realising they are terribad. Cant wait to see the qqqing from people.

Pet dmg nerf seems extreme, they were hitting far too hard but it seems too far the other way.

[Shiftin]

Uthgaard: Trakanon is a 3 day spawn.


VICTORY!

[naekko]

Before the nerf pets were doing max hits every attempt, now they're averaging out. It's a huge DPS nerf for pet classes. Enchanter level 55 pet went from doing 30-40 DPS to 10-20 DPS looking at my parses.

Over 50% reduction in one patch seems heavy handed, but I don't know what pets did in live so I can't comment on if it's accurate.

[Supaskillz]

was trak really a 3 day spawn and every other dragon was 7 on live?

[Rais]

Since T staff change/fix was suppose to be in last patch,was it updated and not noted on this patch?

[Loly Taa]

was trak really a 3 day spawn and every other dragon was 7 on live?

Yep, cause he was the only dragon at the time that was required to be killed to finish a key quest.

[Seeatee]

yea pet damage seems WAY off.

my level 12 necros pet is hitting for 4 on most swings, and my level 54 mage's kunark air pet is hitting for 13 quite consistently.

I can agree pet DPS was probably a bit too high before, but this goes way too far in the opposite direction.

[goodthink]

This nerf is huge really. My pet doesn't hit for much at all now, and addthe fact it can't taunt, it is basically useless (enchanter). W/e forumale was introduced went way overboard. The only dmg that I could see that needed to be toned down was the kick dmg on the pets.

[goodthink]

ps.

I think you guys need to address the taunt-issue before taking away pet dmg and making pets slightly less than totally worthless.

[kanras]

Pet max damage was unchanged. Pet min damage has been way too high for the duration of the server. This is not a timeline change, it's a "it never should have been this way" change.

The only dmg that I could see that needed to be toned down was the kick dmg on the pets.

Kick/bash damage is derived from the pet's min damage.

[Seeatee]

I agree pet damage before was too high, but now it seems too low honestly.

is there any happy middle ground?

also, necros have really been kicked in the nuts, first the DoT nerf , now pet dmg is all out of whack, and necro FD seems to be completely broken.

[Loly Taa]

Pet max damage was unchanged. Pet min damage has been way too high for the duration of the server. This is not a timeline change, it's a "it never should have been this way" change.



Kick/bash damage is derived from the pet's min damage.

I have to back up kanras here. As a 58 mage I was able to KS a raid of 40 on Spiroc Lord being all by myself. Keep in mind, this happened multiple times and even when 38 of the 40 were still alive. Something was definitely screwy.

[Jomar]

Can add:
# Uthgaard(?): Winged Death DoT exemption flag is now working properly. Winged Death now stacks with other Druid magic DoTs.

[Dantes]

Woot! Rogue fix. Maybe now I can keep aggro. Probably not, but a warrior can dream!

[Nox]

Woot! Rogue fix. Maybe now I can keep aggro. Probably not, but a warrior can dream!
You can have it back. Believe me, as a rogue, I don't want it anymore! :o

[Trax]

FD mob memory isn't clearing... We had someone FD after aggroing three mobs went AFK for 2 hours came back and the mobs came running at them.

[PureLo]

All i know is that i saw Kanras on the majority of these changes and instantly /facepalm. Almost afraid to log into the game right now, because i am curious as to what all he "changed" in order to make it "correct" that he ended up getting from 2005+ RANDOM forum posts "claiming" it to be classic.

Oh and the potential mass of ninja changes he failed to report in the notes like last time that greatly impact the game.

[Nivar Quartz]

Pet max damage was unchanged. Pet min damage has been way too high for the duration of the server. This is not a timeline change, it's a "it never should have been this way" change.



Kick/bash damage is derived from the pet's min damage.


So a 59 air pet is supposed to quad for 18 18 18 28?. This is completely wrong, Mags depend on pet dmg, we dont have the luxury of root, snare, fear, feign death. If a mag gets a add the fight is over period, people <melee> cry constantly that pets are OPd but in reality its to make there own class more powerful. After youve alrdy nerfed pets 4 times.

I'm in no way trying to be disrespectful, and enjoy playing on YOUR server daily, but constistancy would be great, enchanters are not pet classses, either are shaman, why nerf mag/necro pets over and over?.

[Gringo]

I know my lvl 49 fire pet took over a minute and a half to kill a Seafury that was down to 15% health and running. That's Whacked!!

[naekko]

So a 59 air pet is supposed to quad for 18 18 18 28?. This is completely wrong, Mags depend on pet dmg, we dont have the luxury of root, snare, fear, feign death. If a mag gets a add the fight is over period, people <melee> cry constantly that pets are OPd but in reality its to make there own class more powerful. After youve alrdy nerfed pets 4 times.

I'm in no way trying to be disrespectful, and enjoy playing on YOUR server daily, but constistancy would be great, enchanters are not pet classses, either are shaman, why nerf mag/necro pets over and over?.

Instead of hitting max (for 57 for example) all the time, now he's hitting in his whole min-max range and is averaging for ~30 over a fight. It's a nerf for sure and very big, but your pet is closer to classic than it was. Parse some fights and see for yourself.

[guineapig]

I know my lvl 49 fire pet took over a minute and a half to kill a Seafury that was down to 15% health and running. That's Whacked!!

Pretty sure mages still have nukes.

But anyway, mages were not a hugely popular class during Kunark and I'm guessing it's probably because they were not as powerful on live as they were here.

[Haul]

About time Imbued Fighters Staff out woot WTB one pm me-

[kanras]

If pets are hitting for minimum too frequently, then it will be fixed.

Edit: It would appear they are.

[Darthmuhh]

So a 59 air pet is supposed to quad for 18 18 18 28?. This is completely wrong, Mags depend on pet dmg, we dont have the luxury of root, snare, fear, feign death. If a mag gets a add the fight is over period, people <melee> cry constantly that pets are OPd but in reality its to make there own class more powerful. After youve alrdy nerfed pets 4 times.

I'm in no way trying to be disrespectful, and enjoy playing on YOUR server daily, but constistancy would be great, enchanters are not pet classses, either are shaman, why nerf mag/necro pets over and over?.

You need to back off on the pipe some," enchanters are not a pet class". I use my pet every grind and solo'd 95% of my 45 lvls. My pet does the work and I give it a 11 point dam shield and slow the mob. Ooo and let me not forget my 11 point dot that really burns the mob down fast =P We just use our pets a bit differently.

I dont understand chnages /nerfs that keep comming. I know this is uppsoe to be classic but do you keep following the same time line that totaly FCK'd EQ to begin with till no one wanted to play anymore? Well shit cut out the waiting and let implament all of Sony's fck ups now so i dont have to wait till the game sucks bad enough to quit again.

[Pringles]

There's gonna be a lot of monks suddenly realising they are terribad. Cant wait to see the qqqing from people.


This ^

Sorry monks, but being a monk on live - you'll figure it out. Those that dont, will be crappy monks (just like on live!) those that did will be always needed in groups. Yes, pathing type mobs *will* remember you indefinitely , thats how it was on live. Only mobs that "reset" after FD back to a static spawn point will forget you. FD is not a get out of jail free card (until later when they made it better with AA), you have to use it right for it to be useful.

I remember *frequently* pulling in raids, and agroing wanderers that we did not want, we would FD and /quit to clear agro - many, many times over the course of an evening of raiding. Thats just the way it was.

Pet nurf sucks, but if you dont admit they were way OP then.... sorry to burst your bubble, but it was way out of whack.

[Extunarian]

I dont understand chnages /nerfs that keep comming. I know this is uppsoe to be classic but do you keep following the same time line that totaly FCK'd EQ to begin with till no one wanted to play anymore? Well shit cut out the waiting and let implament all of Sony's fck ups now so i dont have to wait till the game sucks bad enough to quit again.

You don't get it. The pet nerf wasn't a timeline-dictated change, it was, as Kanras said, a 'this has been wrong since the server started' change.

Pet's were OP on this server, and it needed to be addressed. Whether they swung the nerf bat too hard is something to discuss, but I think most would agree that it pet damage needed to be tuned down somewhat.

[Guthmog]

If pets are hitting for minimum too frequently, then it will be fixed.

Edit: It would appear they are.

With the change, it seems my pet isn't hitting for max more than once every 15 hits or so and he hit for 8dmg much too often (tested vs blue con and green con mobs with pet duel wielding). It's the enc pet from level 34. And for those who think enc's aren't pet classes, you need to roll an enc and solo. The end.

[Morlaeth]

VICTORY!

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

[kanras]

Whether they swung the nerf bat too hard is something to discuss...

They did with regards to pet min hit frequency. Should be noticeably lower, pending update.

[Darthmuhh]

You don't get it. The pet nerf wasn't a timeline-dictated change, it was, as Kanras said, a 'this has been wrong since the server started' change.

Pet's were OP on this server, and it needed to be addressed. Whether they swung the nerf bat too hard is something to discuss, but I think most would agree that it pet damage needed to be tuned down somewhat.

I never played a chanter before so I have nothing to base my pet damage output on other then what my pet went from to what my pet went to. The point is do you impliment things to the point of pissing everyone off who were content with how thins were to the point of not wanting to play?

I do feel discourage I'm going through a hell lvl all good in that, but now my pet gets his ass beat cause the fight now takes twice as long which means I also get to sit longer waiting on him to heal so now a hell lvl has just got even more hellish. So kudos to all of you lvl60 chanters who were able to use whirl all the way to 50 cause it was the suck for us who did not and now the grind is increased by a pet who swings like a thai shemale.

[notjasonlee]

Edit: It would appear they are.

thank god.

[Uthgaard]

Clearly, the greatest injustice is needing to use a mixing bowl to combine dough. Worse than limpwristed pets imo. Where are all of the people who played a baker on live for 7 years and KNOW FOR A FACT that you could combine it in a spit?

[Arkyani]

It seems backstab is hitting for minimum WAY more then it should be as well. I've been asking other rogues just to see if it was just me or not, and its a bit crazy how many backstabs are minimum damage. I dont mind that they took away the higher damage backstabs from last patch, but this minimum backstab 4-5-6 times in a row is a bit crazy.

[Shiftin]

It seems backstab is hitting for minimum WAY more then it should be as well. I've been asking other rogues just to see if it was just me or not, and its a bit crazy how many backstabs are minimum damage. I dont mind that they took away the higher damage backstabs from last patch, but this minimum backstab 4-5-6 times in a row is a bit crazy.

The majority (probably a little over half) of my backstabs were hitting for min before today's patch. Will re-parse tonight.

[Rais]

The people who baked in EQ for 7 years are too busy LARPing. Everyone knows the only reason you did any tradeskills outside JC was for the coldain ring!

[Trax]

Monk Flying Kick

Man, my flying kicks are doing some serious damage...

[Mon Jun 13 14:38:32 2011] You kick judicator of Di`zok for 3 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:38:37 2011] You kick judicator of Di`zok for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:38:47 2011] You kick judicator of Di`zok for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:38:58 2011] You kick judicator of Di`zok for 97 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:39:10 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 33 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:39:30 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 29 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:39:40 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 39 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:39:48 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 3 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:39:53 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 9 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:39:59 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 67 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:40:09 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 58 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:40:14 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 61 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 14:57:48 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 18 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 15:00:25 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 14 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 13 15:00:51 2011] You kick Di`zok royal guard for 86 points of damage.


Rogue Backstab

Rogue backstab damage? take a look at this. Done with a Ragebringer. (15/25 dmg bonus 21, backstab dmg 15)

http://legacyofsteel.net/home/gallery/2000/11/images/hosh_bs.jpg

[Arkyani]

Well to be fair, that rogue in the screen shot is using a discipline, so its wayyy more then normal. But, backstabbing for minimum damage 5 times in a row is pretty lame..

[SupaflyIRL]

yea pet damage seems WAY off.

my level 12 necros pet is hitting for 4 on most swings, and my level 54 mage's kunark air pet is hitting for 13 quite consistently.

I can agree pet DPS was probably a bit too high before, but this goes way too far in the opposite direction.

Level 29 pet at lvl 30 is constantly hitting for 6 with intensify death up. I'm running out of mana trying to solo because my pet is simply not doing its share of the damage.

[Trax]

I am aware, but their max backstab should still be higher than it is now. With a Ragebringer @ 60 rogues should be backstabbing in the 500's.

[kanras]

Re: FK minimum


[Sun Dec 17 23:18:56 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 5 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:19:05 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:19:16 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 46 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:20:02 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 52 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:20:08 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 92 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:20:37 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 19 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:20:53 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:21:02 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 54 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:21:25 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 55 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:22:09 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 49 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:22:58 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 11 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:23:28 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:23:36 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 20 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:23:51 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 72 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:24:31 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 71 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:25:10 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 20 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:28:06 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 46 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:28:16 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 45 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:28:30 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 41 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:28:39 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 73 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:29:02 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 17 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:29:28 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 74 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:29:35 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 58 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:29:51 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 51 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:29:58 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:30:27 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 58 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:30:41 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 45 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:30:47 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 106 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:30:53 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 96 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:30:59 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:31:45 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 82 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:31:54 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 76 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:32:01 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 5 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:32:27 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 113 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:32:48 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 35 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:33:07 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 35 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:33:13 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 20 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:33:26 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 34 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:33:43 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 18 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:33:51 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 35 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:34:04 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 3 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:34:34 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 38 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:34:40 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 31 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:34:58 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 46 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:35:16 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 3 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:35:21 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 61 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:35:28 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 9 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:35:33 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 32 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:35:38 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 64 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:35:50 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:36:09 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 21 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:36:24 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 42 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:37:15 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 58 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:38:15 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 28 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:38:22 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 44 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:38:35 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 73 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:38:42 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 17 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:39:30 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 116 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:39:39 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 9 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:39:45 2000] Monq kicks a protector of growth for 21 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:40:44 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 61 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:42:37 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 43 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:43:14 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 70 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:43:19 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 73 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:43:28 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 61 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:43:58 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 58 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:44:08 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 47 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:44:38 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 56 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:45:43 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 29 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:46:12 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 97 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:46:47 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 25 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:47:03 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 26 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:47:50 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 47 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:48:07 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 71 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:48:17 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 58 points of damage.
[Sun Dec 17 23:48:43 2000] Monq kicks a thifling focuser for 58 points of damage.

[Akim]

Wizards are laughing at you all.

[Jadian]

Would've been nice to add COTH not clearing aggro anymore to patch notes

[kanras]

Would've been nice to add COTH not clearing aggro anymore to patch notes

It wasn't touched.

[Jadian]

Just trained us twice when it normally would have cleared aggro. Could be a zone bug in HS then, but never had a problem with it before.

[Trax]

Re: FK minimum

You're not the real Monq are you??

[Pudge]

COTH didn't clear agro on vztz, dont know which way is correct.

But i saw that screenshot.. 1100 damage backstab? on a fuckin dragon (high AC)?
like someone said above.. 500 is more like what it should be.

[baalzy]

COTH didn't clear agro on vztz, dont know which way is correct.

But i saw that screenshot.. 1100 damage backstab? on a fuckin dragon (high AC)?
like someone said above.. 500 is more like what it should be.

That screenshot was from November 2000 on live Pudge....

[Pudge]

That screenshot was from November 2000 on live Pudge....

hrrmmm.............
:o

that was one lucky shot then!

[Arkyani]

The reason the bs is so high is he was using duelist, which is 2x backstab damage. his normal bs would of been just above 500 damage.

After playing a few more hours as my rogue it is such a shame how bad our backstab was nerfed. Doing minimum damage (81 damage backstab at 54) more then half the time is quite disconcerting to watch. I have done min damage backstabs up to four times in a row currently. That has NEVER happened before until the last two patches.

[SavageHenry]

Playing rogue today was a little depressing. A majority of my backstabs were under 100 at level 40 with a 9 damage MH and 204 str. It doesn't seem right that my minimum BS now (40) is less than what I can hit for with melee damage.

[kanras]

You're not the real Monq are you??

No. That's from the log in this LOS post (http://legacyofsteel.net/Archives/Post/2000-12-18) when the link still worked. Someone still had it sitting around and kindly sent it to me.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I waybacked eqtraders and could not find clump of dough in anything other then mixing bowl and collapsible mixing bowl.

[Aadill]

I don't remember backstab being particularly powerful. I recall that a good backstab was usually celebrated/met with awe and excitement by a group anywhere from 40 on up. Backstab maybe shouldn't be "more than half the time" the claim is but AFAIK it wasn't super-over-the-top powerful and capable of always hitting near max.

[Poeskas]

Has 2hs been fixed?

[Dazen]

My Rogue is just 53 and when raid buffed I'm at max str with 230 dex and he hit's for low 100's 2/3 of the time and I'll see a max backstab maybe once every 10 minets or so this didnt start with this patch it started with the MaY 29th patch.

[Hasbinbad]

I think the problem with backstab is that it is being mitigated by AC and/or level too much. I don't have any parse evidence for this yet, but after spending 2-3 hours killing shit and getting maybe 3 or 4 >340 backstabs total during that time, I found myself in WC, and backstabbed a Kodiak.. Double backstab for 280/360.

This leads me to believe that backstab damage range is working properly but that it is being mitigated as per normal hits, which my experience in live leads me to believe is wrong. On live during kunark, you could pretty much guarantee a given range (just for the sake of argument, we'll call it 1/2-3/4 of your max backstab when fighting blues/whites/yellows/reds) on a given strength of mobs, except once in a while you would get a minimum backstab, giving you a sadface, and once in a while you would get a max hit, giving you a happy face.

If your min backstab was 80 and your max was 450, it would look something like this:
You backstab Innoruuk for 260 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 310 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 275 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 365 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 290 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 350 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 450 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 280 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 260 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 400 points of damage!

Right now, if your min/max were the same, you would see something more like this:
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 320 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 210 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!
You backstab Innoruuk for 80 points of damage!

Of course I have absolutely no evidence for this, no old parses, no screenshots.. But this is pretty much how it was based on empirical observation.

So it is my hypothesis that backstab should not mitigated as per normal hits by level and/or AC. It either ignores AC altogether and is based on your hit rolls, or has some form of an armor-piercing type function.. Dunno what you guys can do with that.

[greatdane]

Is bash damage with a shield looking right at higher levels? I distinctly remember that the damage was affected by the AC of the shield, and if a low-level basher had a high-AC shield, bash would be a meaningful source of damage. Well, at level 6 with Atramentous Shield (AC28) I was bashing for a maximum of 6. By level 10, the skill level having nearly doubled, the damage had not increased. Respectable bash damage was originally one of the stronger benefits of using a shield on a sk/pal.

[Gibcarver]

A pet is not supposed to replace a group.

I definitely remember lots of /quit pulls on live with FD.

I have wiped my group in HS after a CoH.

[Mebryn]

Level 29 pet at lvl 30 is constantly hitting for 6 with intensify death up. I'm running out of mana trying to solo because my pet is simply not doing its share of the damage.

Completely agree, still at 23 (on the verge of 24) but iirc way back in the day, at the low levels like 20, you usually didn't need to recast snare of a blue con (and yes, i'm stacking the same dots I did before patch) usually darkness would wear off around 15%-20% IF it did wear off, now it's more around 40% on average. Understandable for white and higher.

I don't dispute that pets probably were a little hard hitting and Necro's can adapt to the Dot and FD changes, but it's just discouraging to see the pet be whittled down to something that it's own master could probably out-melee.

[SpartanEQ]

Completely agree, still at 23 (on the verge of 24) but iirc way back in the day, at the low levels like 20, you usually didn't need to recast snare of a blue con (and yes, i'm stacking the same dots I did before patch) usually darkness would wear off around 15%-20% IF it did wear off, now it's more around 40% on average. Understandable for white and higher.

I don't dispute that pets probably were a little hard hitting and Necro's can adapt to the Dot and FD changes, but it's just discouraging to see the pet be whittled down to something that it's own master could probably out-melee.

Just made lvl 16 with my necro and got my new pet! 4, 4, miss, 4, 4, miss, miss, miss, 6, miss, 4 :D

I'm not used to having a powerful pet except when I summoned a yellow con one at lvl 12 or so. I never played a necro past this lvl before, but it seems pretty weak at the moment. I'll keep trying and see if I was just having a bad string of luck.

The above was <i>was</i> against an even con mob, but it was at like 3% health and walking away. It took my pet about 30 seconds to finally off the thing.

I know you know that the minimum damage may be occurring too often; I'm just weighing in. No complaints.

[Ostros]

They did with regards to pet min hit frequency. Should be noticeably lower, pending update.

Any time estimate on this? My necro has been punched in the dick and hamstringed because of this.

[Guthmog]

Pet damage still needs a fix. I just watched my pet hit for lowest damage possible literally every other hit on a blue con mob for the first 75% of the fight. And if it quads, 90% of the time it quads for the lowest damage and 0% ever for high end damage. It's as if this change didn't take into account that pets tend to miss a hell of a lot. So, add up the misses and the low damage from pets, and the resists mobs (even light blues) have to caster spells, and you might as well reroll a new non-pet toon, because your pet class is now pathetic.

[fuark]

- And if it quads, 90% of the time it quads for the lowest damage and 0% ever for high end damage.

I noticed this too. I don't have any idea how this could even be affected, but every time my pet quads (lvl 34) he's been hitting for 9/9/10/9, or something to that effect.

[Dannermax]

On the other hand..

Im playing a Human Necromancer, and i noticed that after the patch, It took my pet 25 -50% longer to kill a mob ive been camping for a couple of levels.

Instead of crying about it, i use all the buffs i have available, and make sure that im always equipping it with two weapons. In some sense, id rather prefer a more challenging game, (perhaps a bit difficult) rather than just too easy.



This was what i experienced playing live 1 year ago, and was able to reach lvl 50 without breaking a sweat. Now what the heck is the fun in that?

Ofcourse i cant speak on behalf of the other casters with pets, that probsbly got more crippled that us necros...but anyways, im just happy to be able to play classic.

[baalzy]

Kanras already stated that there is a bug causing pets to hit for low damage way too often. There is probably already a fix coded up but until they bring the server down to patch it (likely won't be for at least a week), the weak damage is going to be around for a while.

Now, the people who keep saying 'pets were way overpowered anyways' I just don't get this argument. Pets were overpowered in Classic. Hell, in classic pets could pull agro off people (this whole mobs prioritizing PCs over pets if a PC on the hate list in range is very not classic) constantly. i remember grouping in lguk on my necro at lord/hand and having my pet take agro from the warrior tank on occasion with taunt off.

The only real problem that was in pet hit distribution was that their low-end damage range wasn't low enough, pets should still be hitting for max/near max as often as they did before this patch.

[Curmudgen]

I think the idea Dannermax is that the new result of the change is also not classic.

[Mebryn]

On the other hand..

Im playing a Human Necromancer, and i noticed that after the patch, It took my pet 25 -50% longer to kill a mob ive been camping for a couple of levels.

Instead of crying about it, i use all the buffs i have available, and make sure that im always equipping it with two weapons. In some sense, id rather prefer a more challenging game, (perhaps a bit difficult) rather than just too easy.



This was what i experienced playing live 1 year ago, and was able to reach lvl 50 without breaking a sweat. Now what the heck is the fun in that?

Ofcourse i cant speak on behalf of the other casters with pets, that probsbly got more crippled that us necros...but anyways, im just happy to be able to play classic.

I can see where you're coming from, and to be honest most Necro's have their pet buffed with all they can (Spirit Armor, Intensify Death, etc) and they're using the main, viable and mana effecient dots/spells for their level. That being said that pet damage snafu doesn't make it more challenging, mainly it's more inconvienient.

From a necro's perspective I need to reapply snare and maybe another dot and fear cast, that's not challenging as the fight is still the same, just longer. Although if you're truly seeking a more challenging gameplay, there's always higher risk mobs to camp out, or hell, summon your previous level pet, that should provide more than enough of a challenge.

[Guthmog]

On the other hand..

Im playing a Human Necromancer, and i noticed that after the patch, It took my pet 25 -50% longer to kill a mob ive been camping for a couple of levels.

Instead of crying about it, i use all the buffs i have available, and make sure that im always equipping it with two weapons. In some sense, id rather prefer a more challenging game, (perhaps a bit difficult) rather than just too easy.



This was what i experienced playing live 1 year ago, and was able to reach lvl 50 without breaking a sweat. Now what the heck is the fun in that?

Ofcourse i cant speak on behalf of the other casters with pets, that probsbly got more crippled that us necros...but anyways, im just happy to be able to play classic.



To quote the old man from They Live this guy is "just some jackass lickin' his nuts again." This is obviously not the same change the happened live one year ago, as you state in your post, so a comparison of this change with that makes your entire post rediculous.

[Ostros]

Kanras already stated that there is a bug causing pets to hit for low damage way too often. There is probably already a fix coded up but until they bring the server down to patch it (likely won't be for at least a week), the weak damage is going to be around for a while.

Now, the people who keep saying 'pets were way overpowered anyways' I just don't get this argument. Pets were overpowered in Classic. Hell, in classic pets could pull agro off people (this whole mobs prioritizing PCs over pets if a PC on the hate list in range is very not classic) constantly. i remember grouping in lguk on my necro at lord/hand and having my pet take agro from the warrior tank on occasion with taunt off.

The only real problem that was in pet hit distribution was that their low-end damage range wasn't low enough, pets should still be hitting for max/near max as often as they did before this patch.

Pretty much this. I wish there was some research I could do to show it, but I remember mage and necro pets (in that order) being pretty boss until they got a heavy re-balance sometime during or well after Luclin.

[ryandward]

No harvest spell yet?

Just saying.. it really sucks being a wizard right now :(

Yes. It really does.

[fishingme]

Just made lvl 16 with my necro and got my new pet! 4, 4, miss, 4, 4, miss, miss, miss, 6, miss, 4 :D

I'm not used to having a powerful pet except when I summoned a yellow con one at lvl 12 or so. I never played a necro past this lvl before, but it seems pretty weak at the moment. I'll keep trying and see if I was just having a bad string of luck.

The above was <i>was</i> against an even con mob, but it was at like 3% health and walking away. It took my pet about 30 seconds to finally off the thing.

I know you know that the minimum damage may be occurring too often; I'm just weighing in. No complaints.

I'd suggest making an alt until they fix pets. Trust me, a necro pet should never die against a dark blue with a full load out of druid buffs = / 8, 8, 14, 8
lvl 34 necro pet
<3

[Mebryn]

I'd suggest making an alt until they fix pets. Trust me, a necro pet should never die against a dark blue with a full load out of druid buffs = / 8, 8, 14, 8
lvl 34 necro pet
<3

Couldn't agree more, pets were great back in Classic (that's partially what made Necro's and Mage's so fun to play) Right now levelling my main is slowing down to a halt with this change.

Then again I suppose I could always make an Enchanter and work on getting my own stein of moggok (i'm newish to the server, so not filthy rich to twink out any toons, lol)

But seriously, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if pets started reverse lifetapping and healing the mob :eek:

[fishingme]

Couldn't agree more, pets were great back in Classic (that's partially what made Necro's and Mage's so fun to play) Right now levelling my main is slowing down to a halt with this change.

Then again I suppose I could always make an Enchanter and work on getting my own stein of moggok (i'm newish to the server, so not filthy rich to twink out any toons, lol)

But seriously, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if pets started reverse lifetapping and healing the mob :eek:

Yeah, so far it's pretty damn ridiculous. Necro pet shouldnt need to be healed for 700hp when vs a blue. Think I may just switch to spending time with my gf instead of playing lol

[fuark]

Just wanted to add as well that hopefully pets are fixed soon, because at the moment they are definitely limiting the abilities of these classes.

http://s827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/markolsonstorey/?action=view&current=bertstarepet.jpg

I could post many more screenshots that are exactly the same as this one. (Hell this one went much longer, I couldn't stretch the screen that far.)

[Mebryn]

Yeah, so far it's pretty damn ridiculous. Necro pet shouldnt need to be healed for 700hp when vs a blue. Think I may just switch to spending time with my gf instead of playing lol

Well to be more practical, you could always just get her to level up a new toon for you on your account :P Nothing says "bonding" like the mutual hatred of Corpse Runs and De-levelling.

[fishingme]

Well to be more practical, you could always just get her to level up a new toon for you on your account :P Nothing says "bonding" like the mutual hatred of Corpse Runs and De-levelling.

Or ya know, there could be less drastic changes. For example instead of say, nerfing damage of pets by 40%, you could nerf the damage by 20% and see if that's better. A lot easier on the population than saying "hey, imma steal all your fucking candy, son" It's "hey, Imma steal a quarter of yo candy, now go make me a sammich"

[fishingme]

Just wanted to add as well that hopefully pets are fixed soon, because at the moment they are definitely limiting the abilities of these classes.

http://s827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/markolsonstorey/?action=view&current=bertstarepet.jpg

I could post many more screenshots that are exactly the same as this one. (Hell this one went much longer, I couldn't stretch the screen that far.)

Wow dude, you're a darkelf and a necro, you're even more fucked than the rest of us

[Quiksilver]

FD mob memory isn't clearing... We had someone FD after aggroing three mobs went AFK for 2 hours came back and the mobs came running at them.


I played a classic monk up until OOW era. I remember during velious/luclin that upon FD and standing back up the mobs would still be aggrod on you. It took a few attempts at FD until they were mem wiped OR they reset to their static (or original roaming path) spawn spot.

Only reason this was worth remembering was that I led quite a few PUG kael raids and I used to split the protectors of Zek (3 static spawns side by side) using this knowledge.

I have a 51 monk on this server but stopped playing once I felt that this FD "nerf" was coming up. I'll start him back up again once the bugs are worked out ;)

[Mebryn]

Or ya know, there could be less drastic changes. For example instead of say, nerfing damage of pets by 40%, you could nerf the damage by 20% and see if that's better. A lot easier on the population than saying "hey, imma steal all your fucking candy, son" It's "hey, Imma steal a quarter of yo candy, now go make me a sammich"

but.......but I want all my candy.......why can't I have it all back? Or least give back the good candy, you can keep the shitty ones....

[Mebryn]

Just wanted to add as well that hopefully pets are fixed soon, because at the moment they are definitely limiting the abilities of these classes.

http://s827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/markolsonstorey/?action=view&current=bertstarepet.jpg

I could post many more screenshots that are exactly the same as this one. (Hell this one went much longer, I couldn't stretch the screen that far.)

Had you posted this image before the changes, i'd give you mad props for soloing so well with your lvl4 pet.

[Sethius]

My 44 mage didn't get too hurt from the pet nerf, fire pet's DS is still awesomely powerful, and even though he hits for the low end of melee quite often, he still gets quite a lot of high hits too. Either way, I can see how this would hurt necros more than mages as their pets melee damage is much more important.

Regardless, Kanras admitted pets are hitting on the low end of the scale too often right now, and that this will be fixed when they have the fix and patch ready, so that is good news.

Also, I totally understand that the dev's on this server don't have the resources to test changes super thoroughly in their quest to replicate classic (Free Server so we should be thankful they do what they do at all), so sometimes changes can have unintended consequences. It's not like they had much help with testing on the kunark beta server when they tried that method out, so don't blame them for when things go wrong, they are doing their best given what they have to work with (and trust me, programming is very challenging on something this complicated).

I applaud the P99 devs and even if a class gets hit a little hard sometimes, they fix it when they can and try their best, which frankly is more than what you get from most of the current major mmo's that are not free.

[greatdane]

Any word on bash? Damage seems unaffected by level or shield's AC. The latter in particular should be determining bash damage, but it clearly doesn't and I'm bashing for a maximum damage of 8 with an AC28 shield. Paladins and shadowknights should be able to bash for reasonable damage, it was part of the appeal of going with a one-hander. I'm guessing this was broken when pet kick/bash damage was rightfully nerfed.

[Tulvinous]

WTB Math

[JustinWK]

I played a classic monk up until OOW era. I remember during velious/luclin that upon FD and standing back up the mobs would still be aggrod on you. It took a few attempts at FD until they were mem wiped OR they reset to their static (or original roaming path) spawn spot.

Only reason this was worth remembering was that I led quite a few PUG kael raids and I used to split the protectors of Zek (3 static spawns side by side) using this knowledge.

I have a 51 monk on this server but stopped playing once I felt that this FD "nerf" was coming up. I'll start him back up again once the bugs are worked out ;)

It isn't quite nearly as accurate as original, but hopefully they will work it out.

I played a monk throughout classic onward, and it was never quite this cruel.

[Anger]

It isn't quite nearly as accurate as original, but hopefully they will work it out.

I played a monk throughout classic onward, and it was never quite this cruel.

I also played a monk classic through luclin. When these changes originally went through, it became less where and when you FD and more about when you timed your javelin throw to split off mobs. This is why you needed 2 and 3 monk pull teams to pull the bigger raid zones later on.

It's not perfect, but it's alot closer to what I remember.