Monk - Trance Stick vs Knuckle Dusters

[CptnCanuck]

New to the monk class and thought I post for some advice.

I am assuming even though the Knuckle Dusters are a higher delay that they beat out the Trance Sticks due to having double the damage.

I am also assuming this still holds true when you get to level 35 and the Trance Stick starts proccing, though I could be wrong in that assumption.

I was wondering if I did get a pair of Knuckle Dusters, would it still be worth having Trance Sticks on me for when fighting casters for the quicker delay(weapon pushback) and the pushback from the proc after 35?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Pushback no longer works on caster mobs to interrupt spells sadly. That was changed a while ago.

I am not a monk expert, but I believe you should do trance stick in main hand and dusters in offhand. In offhand ratio is more important, in main hand low delay is usually preferred due to the main hand getting a damage bonus. But it does depend on the ratio of the weapon and your level. Trance stick ratio is pretty low.

[Ripqozko]

I'll wait on samoht to tell me how DSM is wrong

[Samoht]

Depends on your level. The faster ratio on Master Wu's Trance Stick (https://wiki.project1999.com/Master_Wu%27s_Trance_Stick) doesn't really swing in your favor until your damage bonus is above 5, so Knuckle Dusters (https://wiki.project1999.com/Knuckle_Dusters) has better white DPS before level 43.

The proc on using Wu's mainhand will add about 2.8 DPS beginning at level 35 assuming a proc rate of 2 per minute.

35-40 is a little gray to me on which would be better, but before 35 it's the KD, and it's Wu's after 40 when considering the proc.

Offhand has no damage bonus and proc rate of 1 per minute, so use KD secondary over Wu's at all levels until level 58/59 depending on race and then bare fist would be better. If you have epic, bare fists are always better than either weapon in either slot after you can equip it at level 46.

Main Hand Ratio = (Dam + Bonus) / Delay
Damage Bonus = (Level - 25) / 3 round down

https://i.imgur.com/9cXtSvI.png

[Croco]

2 per minute proc rate is with 255 dex, no way he's hitting that, he's getting 1 ppm if he's lucky

[CptnCanuck]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

That chart is very helpful Samoht! Since my Iksar monk is only lvl 10 looks like I will just look to acquire 2 Knuckle Dusters for the foreseeable future.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yes, great post Samoht! I appreciate the damage bonus chart.

I'll wait on samoht to tell me how DSM is wrong

I lol'ed.

[greenspectre]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

That chart is very helpful Samoht! Since my Iksar monk is only lvl 10 looks like I will just look to acquire 2 Knuckle Dusters for the foreseeable future.

FWIW, Jade Mace might be worth looking into. It's like a KD for your mainhand that milks the damage bonus better.

Also, I'm unsure, but I think a Wu's Quivering is gonna be better DPS than twin Knuckle Dusters after 20 for quite a while. Samoht seems like he's good at crunching the numbers, though, so I bet he could verify.

[Sizar]

Wu's Quivering is gonna be better DPS than twin Knuckle Dusters after 20 for quite a while.

Very true, Wu's is super cheap and very good once you hit level 20

[Toxigen]

Just get an Imbued Fighters Staff and forget about the numbers.

[greenspectre]

Just get an Imbued Fighters Staff and forget about the numbers.

I'd recommend this at 30.

[strongNpretty]

Man but the dusters are so cooooool lookin!

[wagorf]

how does staff of battle perform for OP's level, compared to wu stick + duster?

[greenspectre]

how does staff of battle perform for OP's level, compared to wu stick + duster?

2hb in general performs better once you lose the second damage cap at 20, and, if you're using a Staff of Battle or IFS, *even* better when you lose the final damage cap at 30. The reasoning here is that your dual wield skill/checks still aren't good enough to out-damage the crazy ratios on these 2hb weapons.

In a perfect world where you would never miss a dual wield check, twin KD's would be roughly equivalent to a 28/28 2hb. Wu Quivering is a 23/28 (All other 2hb mentioned are better so we can use WQ as baseline). So you'd have to succeed roughly 60% of your dual wield checks on the offhand weapon to match ratios. And you'd be surprised how many you miss even at mid-levels.

If you ONLY have twin Knuckle Dusters and a WQS, I'd say the KD's become better at maybe 40ish, just as a wild guess. If you have a Staff of Battle, IFS, or a T-Staff or RFS, they'll keep outperforming KD's.

[sideshow]

At lvl 20 I would definitely get Wu's Quivering Staff. The damage output increase is very noticable compared to trance stick/knuckle duster. At 40 I picked up imbued fighters staff. I have a love/hate relationship with it. When its hitting good you will drain HP fast, when it's not it feels slower than hell.

[Toxigen]

Often overlooked is the reduced damage taken when using a slower 2 hander (fewer mob ripostes).

Ultimately, all that matters is the number of mobs you're able to kill in a given time period.

[Troxx]

To piggy back off the recommendation for 2h, after the 2h dmg bonus changes a long while back, IFS and Peacebringer will outdamage pretty much all groupable 1handers paired with epic fists.

Food for thought but at 55-60 after the changes I parsed the white damage on both IFS and tranq staff higher than epic fists and scepter of mastery. It used to be that damage bonus favored the epic fists … but at 60 that is no longer the case. Ratios on IFS and PB are so close to TStaff that they’re practically right about the same dps (minus the proc which is negligible dps and more of a stun side perk)

I made posts about it EONs ago in this forum in the weeks following the 2h dmg bonus changes.

I really only break out the epic/SoM combo when accidentally tanking aggro would be lethal (raid assists). Even then, monks can aggro dump periodically so easy with FD it probably isn’t necessary.

[Toxigen]

To piggy back off the recommendation for 2h, after the 2h dmg bonus changes a long while back, IFS and Peacebringer will outdamage pretty much all groupable 1handers paired with epic fists.

Food for thought but at 55-60 after the changes I parsed the white damage on both IFS and tranq staff higher than epic fists and scepter of mastery. It used to be that damage bonus favored the epic fists … but at 60 that is no longer the case. Ratios on IFS and PB are so close to TStaff that they’re practically right about the same dps (minus the proc which is negligible dps and more of a stun side perk)

I made posts about it EONs ago in this forum in the weeks following the 2h dmg bonus changes.

I really only break out the epic/SoM combo when accidentally tanking aggro would be lethal (raid assists). Even then, monks can aggro dump periodically so easy with FD it probably isn’t necessary.

To piggy back the piggy back, no monk should have a Peacebringer when IFS is an option. Its just too heavy.

Its nice having Troxx back:

3-ZUDtaGf3I

[Troxx]

Lol

[Garnaak]

Depends on your level. The faster ratio on Master Wu's Trance Stick (https://wiki.project1999.com/Master_Wu%27s_Trance_Stick) doesn't really swing in your favor until your damage bonus is above 5, so Knuckle Dusters (https://wiki.project1999.com/Knuckle_Dusters) has better white DPS before level 43.

The proc on using Wu's mainhand will add about 2.8 DPS beginning at level 35 assuming a proc rate of 2 per minute.

35-40 is a little gray to me on which would be better, but before 35 it's the KD, and it's Wu's after 40 when considering the proc.

Offhand has no damage bonus and proc rate of 1 per minute, so use KD secondary over Wu's at all levels until level 58/59 depending on race and then bare fist would be better. If you have epic, bare fists are always better than either weapon in either slot after you can equip it at level 46.

Main Hand Ratio = (Dam + Bonus) / Delay
Damage Bonus = (Level - 25) / 3 round down

https://i.imgur.com/9cXtSvI.png

Uh, I think this is wrong info. The correct way to do it would be (2*DAM + BONUS) /DELAY

Trance stick is worse than KD mainhand (and offhand) always.

Just get a jade mace if choosing 1hb. But as others have said, 2hb is way better once damage caps come off. I keep a trance stick in my bag, just to skill up for the first few minutes after a ding.

[jolanar]

To piggy back off the recommendation for 2h, after the 2h dmg bonus changes a long while back, IFS and Peacebringer will outdamage pretty much all groupable 1handers paired with epic fists.

Food for thought but at 55-60 after the changes I parsed the white damage on both IFS and tranq staff higher than epic fists and scepter of mastery. It used to be that damage bonus favored the epic fists … but at 60 that is no longer the case. Ratios on IFS and PB are so close to TStaff that they’re practically right about the same dps (minus the proc which is negligible dps and more of a stun side perk)

I made posts about it EONs ago in this forum in the weeks following the 2h dmg bonus changes.

I really only break out the epic/SoM combo when accidentally tanking aggro would be lethal (raid assists). Even then, monks can aggro dump periodically so easy with FD it probably isn’t necessary.

As someone who prefers dual wield it made me sad that 2h weapons became so much better for any class that can use them.

[Stonewallx39]

As someone who prefers dual wield it made me sad that 2h weapons became so much better for any class that can use them.

Just the meta man……..,

[Bardp1999]

Use a Peacebringer and be a real monk until Epic

[Kich867]

Uh, I think this is wrong info. The correct way to do it would be (2*DAM + BONUS) /DELAY

Trance stick is worse than KD mainhand (and offhand) always.

Just get a jade mace if choosing 1hb. But as others have said, 2hb is way better once damage caps come off. I keep a trance stick in my bag, just to skill up for the first few minutes after a ding.

Does the proc not make up for it? Using your equation they're nearly identical in main hand but the trance stick has a proc.

[radbeard]

Does the proc not make up for it? Using your equation they're nearly identical in main hand but the trance stick has a proc.

This isn't a straight answer to your question but an off-hand trance stick is going to add something like 0.65 to 1.3 dps on average held in your offhand. I would guess that dual wielding trance sticks by lvl 35 when it begins to proc you're probably already doing 25ish dps vs blue mobs. So the proc isn't very substantial. Whether its enough to edge out better than a KD....I don't know. I think its close enough you could probably use either without much detectable difference.

[Encroaching Death]

This thread is making me want to play my Monk... :(

[Zuranthium]

Why is nobody talking about how you still "dual-wield" with a Two-Handed weapon. Unequip the two-hander right after you swing and then immediately re-equip it. You get an offhand fist attack round in that time.

The best possible DPS (also for Warriors and Rangers) is using a Two-Hander, turning off autoattack immediately after swinging and equipping the highest damage offhand weapon with a suitable delay to weave in, click the offhand attack, and then immediately reequip the Two-Hander and turn autoattack back on. Over and over.

^ That second technique is very tiresome, and with full haste and a relatively fast Two-hander it's basically impossible, because you'll miss attack rounds if you don't execute like a perfect robot non-stop. When there is enough time and care to do so though, it shouldn't be forgotten about.

[Sizar]

The best possible DPS (also for Warriors and Rangers) is using a Two-Hander, turning off autoattack immediately after swinging and equipping the highest damage offhand weapon with a suitable delay to weave in, click the offhand attack, and then immediately reequip the Two-Hander and turn autoattack back on. Over and over.

You do not need to turn off auto attack

[Zuranthium]

You do not need to turn off auto attack

Of course you do, otherwise you get a bare fist offhand swing, and possibly a primary attack swing with the Monk Epic because of the low delay, which ruins the cycle.

[rubicaant]

Agreed, KD always better

[WokeCat]

People are ignoring the fact that Knuckle Dusters look cooler.