Theory craft: Best 4 songs to twist at 51 as a melee solo twink bard?

[Diabolic2442]

Yes, please don't tell me how awful bard melee solo is compared to charming/swarming/grouping/etc. I know but want to take this specific path in the game until it becomes too painful.

Now that it's out of the way, my bard is fairly well twinked with SBOZ/BOC/Seahorse 34% haste belt and Lute of the Howler(40% spell haste).

I'm thinking the best 4 songs to twist at 51 would be: Longo's for slow, chant of battle for stats, hymn of restoration for regen and Jonathan's provocation for haste. However I realized that Werewolf form is spell haste and it isn't stacking with Jonathan's which is 8% more. Few questions I have:

1. Is it worth twisting Jonathan's provocation or should I switch to something else that would be more beneficial than 8% extra haste?

2. What twink item should I spend my dkp on that would be a huge benefit to continue melee solo 51-60. Epic? Tunare/Koi Dagger? 41% item haste? Although I read piercing is lower than 1h/1hb so not sure if Tunare/Koi dagger is worth it.

3. Anyone have other recommendations on what would assist my journey of melee bard solo to 60?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am not a bard, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

Slow and HP regen are obviously good choices. Chant of battle may not be worth it if you have something better to play, as stats are going to impact the battle less than big things like Slow and Regen.

I wouldn't play the haste song. You are already sitting at 74% haste with belt and lute. You can get a bit more haste with V2 Haste (Ervaj line of bard songs, up to 10%), but haste gives you the most bang for your buck at 34%. The last 66% of possible haste is only giving you 50% benefit, so you are really only getting 5% additional haste for your troubles. To clarify what I mean, the way the math works is for MOST weapons (except for weapons above 50 delay or so), getting to 34% haste will reduce the weapons delay by 50% of the possible reduction you can get. For example, my weapon is a 46/44. The best delay I can get on this weapon is 22 at 100% haste. However, if I wear a 34% haste belt and nothing else, the delay goes from 44 to 33. As you can see, out of the 22 possible points of delay reduction, I have already achieved 11/22. The difference between 74% haste and 84% haste is 25 delay vs 24 delay. It is an improvement for sure, but it is a small one. I assume you are dual wielding, so it will probably be even worse for your weapons.

Maybe Slow + Regen + Damage DoT + (something else like harmory or charm)? If you cannot think of anything else to put in the 4th slot, then yes probably the best stat/ATK boosting buff would be your best bet. I don't know enough about all the possible bard songs to know for sure what would be the best option.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I just realized your slow is also a DoT. So it would really depend on if you can stack DoTs, I have no idea how that works with bard songs. If you can, then Slow + Regen + Dot + Dot would probably work great on single mobs. If they don't stack, then probably Slow + Regen + Ervaj + Stat spell. At higher levels you will have stuns, which would help reduce damage further. It says you have a DD spell as well, which costs mana. May be worth it if no other spell you are using costs mana. Again I don't play bard, so I don't know the nuances of a lot of the spells, I am just looking at the wiki text.

Since you are using SBOZ/BOC, I can't imagine chant of battle being very good, since that gives you DEX, but you don't have any procs. So if you end up going the Slow + Regen + Ervaj + Stat spell route, you should use a spell that gives STR + ATK. I am guessing that is only Jonthan's Provocation at your level, so that may be ideal. If you can do Slow + Dot + Dot you will be doing something like 90 damage a tick. I am not sure if a bit of extra ATK and 5% haste (past 34%) is going to out DPS 90 damage per 6 seconds. You would probably have to parse that.

[Crede]

Epic for sure if you can afford/raid it. Otherwise get drums of the Beast. Sell your weapons if needed to do it so you can twist all 3 chant dots and equip the drum before each one lands swapping back to melee quickly. I’d probably add the slow song on top of this. Bard melee will plummet pretty hard once you hit 55 or so but then the drums will continue to last.

Good luck!

[Sizar]

Don't bother with chant and haste song. I did the same thing on multiple bards that you are doing and it was really mostly situational. Regen song and slow/snare is clearly the best 2. For the other 2 you can do fear if you have the space and dot. If you do not have the space i would suggest either 2 dot songs, or 1 dot song plus 1 DS song. I preferred the 2 dot songs personally but whatever you get the feel for.

Also if the mob you are fighting happens to be a caster i would burn it down to 50% then just spam it with mez to interrupt its spells, heals especially if it's say a shaman.

This way of fighting is possible and is fairly fun imo.

Ohh and if you can afford to BUY an epic....then yeeeeah do that!

[Ennewi]

"Melee solo" is mentioned at least three times by the OP, so they're attempting something more along the lines of DAoC's Skald as opposed to Minstrel or Bard. While it is good advice in any other discussion, selling their weapons and buying drums defeats the whole purpose of the build/playstyle. For that, the epic would be ideal, or the ToV/PoG equivalent. At least that's when I've seen bards swing at raid and group targets, when they've attained one of those procs. Solo, generally I've only ever seen bards melee while fear kiting, so consider throwing that song into the mix, depending on the zone. It's all pretty situational though, imo, but then bards have an answer for just about every situation. 41% worn haste never hurts, especially since most of those items have all-around good stats tacked on. You might also want to consider obtaining a few clickies, such as a singing steel BP and jboots if you're going to be dungeon crawling.

[Skarne]

If you don't have your epic melee solo can be sort of tricky. Tricky as in time-consuming. If it were me, I'd throw the following on my bar:
1: verses of victory
2: psalm of cooling (damage shield)
3: hymn of restoration
4: largo's or a slow/dot
5: a chant (probably frost as it's the highest dmg OR fear for kiting
6: song of twilight
7: solon's bewitching
8: selo's OR if indoors, kellin's for splitting

IF you have the epic, here's what I'd use

1: frost chant
2: flame chant
3: magic chant
4: snare/slow
5: hymn of restoration
6: twilight
7: charm
8: selos/kellin's/fear

With the above set up you'll be able to proc the epic for a stat boost and haste, then swap in and out your drums for maximum dottage. Start twisting the fear song with your snare and beat on the mob(s) while twisting moar dawts.

GL!

[Diabolic2442]

Don't bother with chant and haste song. I did the same thing on multiple bards that you are doing and it was really mostly situational. Regen song and slow/snare is clearly the best 2. For the other 2 you can do fear if you have the space and dot. If you do not have the space i would suggest either 2 dot songs, or 1 dot song plus 1 DS song. I preferred the 2 dot songs personally but whatever you get the feel for.

Also if the mob you are fighting happens to be a caster i would burn it down to 50% then just spam it with mez to interrupt its spells, heals especially if it's say a shaman.

This way of fighting is possible and is fairly fun imo.

Ohh and if you can afford to BUY an epic....then yeeeeah do that!

Thanks, I'll try Largo's, Hymn, Frost + Fire Chant as my 4 to see.

If you don't have your epic melee solo can be sort of tricky. Tricky as in time-consuming. If it were me, I'd throw the following on my bar:
1: verses of victory
2: psalm of cooling (damage shield)
3: hymn of restoration
4: largo's or a slow/dot
5: a chant (probably frost as it's the highest dmg OR fear for kiting
6: song of twilight
7: solon's bewitching
8: selo's OR if indoors, kellin's for splitting

IF you have the epic, here's what I'd use

1: frost chant
2: flame chant
3: magic chant
4: snare/slow
5: hymn of restoration
6: twilight
7: charm
8: selos/kellin's/fear

With the above set up you'll be able to proc the epic for a stat boost and haste, then swap in and out your drums for maximum dottage. Start twisting the fear song with your snare and beat on the mob(s) while twisting moar dawts.

GL!

Don't have epic yet but will see if I can acquire. What's the reasoning for verses of victory on your none epic build? I was thinking give up haste if I have the 40% Werewolf form lute.

Do you think DS is worth using instead of another chant?

[Skarne]

Thanks, I'll try Largo's, Hymn, Frost + Fire Chant as my 4 to see.



Don't have epic yet but will see if I can acquire. What's the reasoning for verses of victory on your none epic build? I was thinking give up haste if I have the 40% Werewolf form lute.

Do you think DS is worth using instead of another chant?

Eh, it’s been quite a long time since I haven’t had the epic. My apologies. I was thinking verses because in my mind I still added the epic proc. Let me try again.

1: Jonthan’s
2: Chant of frost
3: chant of fire
4: largo’s for slow or selos cessation for slow/dot
5: hymn of resto
6: song of twilight or fear
7: solon’s bewitching
8: selo’s or fear

[Skarne]

If you’re fear kiting there’s no point for a damage shield. The only reason for the slow is the snare effect and if they turn on you when a fear breaks early. You always want charm in there in case you get an add, you can charm it until the first mob dies and then move on to your temporary pet.

[Diabolic2442]

Eh, it’s been quite a long time since I haven’t had the epic. My apologies. I was thinking verses because in my mind I still added the epic proc. Let me try again.

1: Jonthan’s
2: Chant of frost
3: chant of fire
4: largo’s for slow or selos cessation for slow/dot
5: hymn of resto
6: song of twilight or fear
7: solon’s bewitching
8: selo’s or fear

If you’re fear kiting there’s no point for a damage shield. The only reason for the slow is the snare effect and if they turn on you when a fear breaks early. You always want charm in there in case you get an add, you can charm it until the first mob dies and then move on to your temporary pet.

I guess my question is why have any haste(Jonathan's) if I have 40% from Werewolf form and Jonathan's is 8% better than that. I can't twist 5 songs(Jonathans, hymn, 2x chants, Slow) so I'd only be able to do 4(hymn, Largo's, 2x chant) unless you think Jonathan's is worth sacrificing a dot over.

Yup makes sense, right now I melee solo some mobs and fear kite others and then charm if I get an add.

[Skarne]

I'd use it because Jonthan's gives extra STR and ATK. the magic dot doesnt do much dmg anyway (11-21).

You can twist 5 songs especially if 2 are dots, you just have to rotate properly.

[Skarne]

Just my opinion though i'd be interested to see a parse comparing all the combos but I'm not interested enough to do the work myself to find out.

[Skarne]

Also, you won't really need to use the heal song much if you're fear kiting unless you get unlucky. If you have a fungi, you probably won't need to use it at all. it is nice to have though.

[Diabolic2442]

I'd use it because Jonthan's gives extra STR and ATK. the magic dot doesnt do much dmg anyway (11-21).

You can twist 5 songs especially if 2 are dots, you just have to rotate properly.

I think trying to twist 5 songs is a bit beyond me so I'll try Largo's, Tuyen's Frost, Hymn, Jonthan's. Usually I'll face tank melee solo but then sometimes charm/fear depending on my hp and what mobs are up.

Any thoughts on what the best xp solo camps are for 51-60?

[Sizar]

Old World > Kunark > Velious
So that would put you at Lower Guk or SolB to begin your 50's

I THINK maybe the giants in WL near Kael might still be blue at 51?? Would have to double check but if they are you can do those and get faction at the same time

[Skarne]

I think trying to twist 5 songs is a bit beyond me so I'll try Largo's, Tuyen's Frost, Hymn, Jonthan's. Usually I'll face tank melee solo but then sometimes charm/fear depending on my hp and what mobs are up.

Any thoughts on what the best xp solo camps are for 51-60?

At around 54 or 55 try charm kiting geonids in WL. They’re great xp. Lower guk is also good if you find a nice spot with the pathing to fear kite.

If you’re set on melee don’t bother with geonids they are pretty tough. Having said that, if you charm kite, they’re excellent plat and xp.

Can also fear kite in KC plus it’s an outdoor zone. I’ll try to think of more places for ya.

[damaddar]

DS seems attractive at first but youll spend too much recovering (even with fungi), then if you are slowing the mobs it's not that great. Maybe if you have lots of raid gear DS would be more enjoyable. Still id focus on maxing it with dain ring/bathezid ring/singing steel bracer/DS pots still. With haste i'd rather rely on epic / tunare/koi proc and lute of the howler than singing a song. so i'd just twist DoTs and hp regen.

at 51 i would do hymn, selos chord of cessation (48 pbae dot/slow), chant of flame, chant of frost, potentially fufils as well.

then at 60 you get assonance which lasts a minute, and you can do denons bereavement, cessation, flame, and frost, with regen handy as well.

selos, hymn/cantata, charm, flame chant, frost chant, denons bereavement, assonance, another DoT or pbae snare.

if you don't need selo's or don't want to charm, mem song of twilight instead


Ideally you are swapping VP lute / drums of the beast / efreeti horn / breath of harmony in if you feel like being a try hard, but that gets old very fast. Epic is great because you can be lazy with acceptable results so if you had to pick between white scales and tunare/koi i'd grab epic, but if you are going to instrument swap it doesnt really matter. If you really like maxing your DS then the singing mod from epic is important as well.

[Skarne]

DS seems attractive at first but youll spend too much recovering (even with fungi), then if you are slowing the mobs it's not that great. Maybe if you have lots of raid gear DS would be more enjoyable. Still id focus on maxing it with dain ring/bathezid ring/singing steel bracer/DS pots still. With haste i'd rather rely on epic / tunare/koi proc and lute of the howler than singing a song. so i'd just twist DoTs and hp regen.

at 51 i would do hymn, selos chord of cessation (48 pbae dot/slow), chant of flame, chant of frost, potentially fufils as well.

then at 60 you get assonance which lasts a minute, and you can do denons bereavement, cessation, flame, and frost, with regen handy as well.

selos, hymn/cantata, charm, flame chant, frost chant, denons bereavement, assonance, another DoT or pbae snare.

if you don't need selo's or don't want to charm, mem song of twilight instead


Ideally you are swapping VP lute / drums of the beast / efreeti horn / breath of harmony in if you feel like being a try hard, but that gets old very fast. Epic is great because you can be lazy with acceptable results so if you had to pick between white scales and tunare/koi i'd grab epic, but if you are going to instrument swap it doesnt really matter. If you really like maxing your DS then the singing mod from epic is important as well.

Really good advice

[Vivitron]

When you're doing a 4 song rotation I think it can make sense to alternate the dot(s) each time through the rotation, too. Like snare, haste, regen, cessation, then snare, haste, regen, frost, repeat.

The dots last 3 ticks, but they do damage on tick 0 so if they wear off for less than 6 seconds you don't lose any damage. Contrast to the slows which only last two ticks and lose effect when they wear off.

Sometimes I omit cessation because the ae snare is my preferred slow and they don't stack. Cessation claims to slow but it seems to be a minor haste instead; I assume that part of it has no effect when another slow is on the mob.

[Diabolic2442]

DS seems attractive at first but youll spend too much recovering (even with fungi), then if you are slowing the mobs it's not that great. Maybe if you have lots of raid gear DS would be more enjoyable. Still id focus on maxing it with dain ring/bathezid ring/singing steel bracer/DS pots still. With haste i'd rather rely on epic / tunare/koi proc and lute of the howler than singing a song. so i'd just twist DoTs and hp regen.

at 51 i would do hymn, selos chord of cessation (48 pbae dot/slow), chant of flame, chant of frost, potentially fufils as well.

then at 60 you get assonance which lasts a minute, and you can do denons bereavement, cessation, flame, and frost, with regen handy as well.

selos, hymn/cantata, charm, flame chant, frost chant, denons bereavement, assonance, another DoT or pbae snare.

if you don't need selo's or don't want to charm, mem song of twilight instead


Ideally you are swapping VP lute / drums of the beast / efreeti horn / breath of harmony in if you feel like being a try hard, but that gets old very fast. Epic is great because you can be lazy with acceptable results so if you had to pick between white scales and tunare/koi i'd grab epic, but if you are going to instrument swap it doesnt really matter. If you really like maxing your DS then the singing mod from epic is important as well.

Thanks, appreciate the detailed answer. Any reason why you recommend Selo's Cessation which is a 18% slow around low 50's vs Selo's Consonant Chain which is low 30% slow? I get that Cessation has the dot but wouldn't an extra 12%+ attack speed slow be better for single target melee fights?

[damaddar]

yeah you're right, snare is probably overall better, especially indoors, and probably honestly more dps from keeping you meleeing longer with raid weapons. I usually use the 59 pbae song and didnt have to consider trading damage for snare/slow anymore, so in your case 51 you can just use fufils slightly lower damage.

if you're soloing, at some point you'll likely have to heal/regen up, so you can transition into fear kiting or chant kiting, fearing is great whenever you can because dots do full damage and you can keep meleeomg so that's where that suggestion was coming from, but honestly the difference between dot damage is very little.