Lvl 53 Mage Fire Pet, what's the point?

[Shadowrat]

Just got this pet and don't understand it's role. Fire pets have been my goto farming pet. Just got this one and threw it at a few Drolvargs (one at a time) near FV outpost and was disappointed by its performance. The pets damage shield was doing like 4 pts, and it occasionally cast a nuke. The pet seemed to run out of mana after a kill or so and was half dead after a fight.

What is the use case for this pet?

Thanks

[TheBlob]

From what I understand, it isn't really useful. It could be used as a novelty if having a nuking pet is your thing, but it is outclassed by every other pet type level 51+

[branamil]

Sadly the 50+ fire pets are useless. I don't know what they were thinking when they designed them. They stop meleeing all the time to cast their stupid spells.

[unleashedd]

At lvl53 while fearkiting with a Necro partner, is the best pet monster summoning 2?

[loramin]

Honestly, as a level 60 mage, I never once used the fire pet seriously ... at any level.

Water was my main pet, for anything I could kill with one pet. The earth pet was my second main, for fighting anything that requires chaining pets. And the air pet was ... all I could use in Plane of Sky, so at least it got some use there :)

But fire? I guess it's good if you're fighting really low level blues, but I just never needed it at any of the camps I did.

[starkind]

Maybe vs a low hp caster. Air pet probably stuns and bashes more anyway.

I wouldn't know tho. Haven't gotten a 53 mage yet.

[Tewaz]

Honestly, as a level 60 mage, I never once used the fire pet seriously ... at any level.

Water was my main pet, for anything I could kill with one pet. The earth pet was my second main, for fighting anything that requires chaining pets. And the air pet was ... all I could use in Plane of Sky, so at least it got some use there :)

But fire? I guess it's good if you're fighting really low level blues, but I just never needed it at any of the camps I did.

You missed out on the level 12 fire pet. It SLAPS.

[Tann]

You missed out on the level 12 fire pet. It SLAPS.

12 fire pet can eat most of Crushbone

[PatChapp]

At lvl53 while fearkiting with a Necro partner, is the best pet monster summoning 2?

That or the 49 water pet. I used the monster summoning because it can be pretty funny
Fear kiting seafuries with a shark

[Sabin76]

Just got this pet and don't understand it's role. Fire pets have been my goto farming pet. Just got this one and threw it at a few Drolvargs (one at a time) near FV outpost and was disappointed by its performance. The pets damage shield was doing like 4 pts, and it occasionally cast a nuke. The pet seemed to run out of mana after a kill or so and was half dead after a fight.

What is the use case for this pet?

Thanks

If you actually want a fire pet in the 50+ range, you'll need to use DDD. It's got the damage shield you're looking for (45!), but cannot equip weapons (not as much of a problem now that swords are fixed, but that means no deadwoods). I have not tested whether it will equip a mask, however.

[NPC]

Water pets are the best DPS, but Earth pets can be invaluable with the huge HP's and rooting. Having a tanking earth pet can save you if you over nuke or someone over pulls. If your not worried about agro Water pets all the way to 60. All i ever used was earth, the 49th level earth pet is best soloing, even at 60th level I still use that soloing. Why? It only costs 200 mana, with foci can have up to 3500 hps. At 50th level you med back 200 mana a minute. The higher level pets cost twice as much mana to cast have fewer, almost half the hps in some cases. Plus Tash and earth pet root can be quite powerful in some zones. Water pets are lower end of hps, but they will out dps all the other pets, so best in groups.
Also, I still use 49th level earth pet because the Quest Foci do not work on pets above that level. So the 49th level pet w/ foci is better than the higher level earth pets without Foci. If you get any epic foci, then go with that of course. Till you do, 49th level earth pet is best. FYI- I do not believe monster summon can use foci, so they are garbage. If you dont know what mage foci is, Wiki it up son.

[Zenren]

I have always used Earth solo, except for a brief period of time in the early 40s when I used fire in Overthere. My suggestion is water for groups, earth for solo, and the rest are situational. After 50 Fire just doesn't have the health to compete with Earth and Water. Arguably neither does Air.

[PatChapp]

Water pets are the best DPS, but Earth pets can be invaluable with the huge HP's and rooting. Having a tanking earth pet can save you if you over nuke or someone over pulls. If your not worried about agro Water pets all the way to 60. All i ever used was earth, the 49th level earth pet is best soloing, even at 60th level I still use that soloing. Why? It only costs 200 mana, with foci can have up to 3500 hps. At 50th level you med back 200 mana a minute. The higher level pets cost twice as much mana to cast have fewer, almost half the hps in some cases. Plus Tash and earth pet root can be quite powerful in some zones. Water pets are lower end of hps, but they will out dps all the other pets, so best in groups.
Also, I still use 49th level earth pet because the Quest Foci do not work on pets above that level. So the 49th level pet w/ foci is better than the higher level earth pets without Foci. If you get any epic foci, then go with that of course. Till you do, 49th level earth pet is best. FYI- I do not believe monster summon can use foci, so they are garbage. If you dont know what mage foci is, Wiki it up son.

This is terrible information please ignore.
There's an argument for continuing to use the 49 pet instead of the 51, but the 57 pet is a huge upgrade.

[Zenren]

This is terrible information please ignore.
There's an argument for continuing to use the 49 pet instead of the 51, but the 57 pet is a huge upgrade.

From my understanding almost universally it's agreed that the Water Pet at 60 does the most damage of any pet, including the epic, due to backstab. After 54 there is little reason to use anything else, except when you are paranoid and plan on chain summoning and nuking, in that situation you may want earth to root, but only if the situation prevents you from kiting.

[long.liam]

It's the Pet HP to Mana cost ratio. The 49 pet has the best HP to Mana ratio for all Magician pets. Also the Lesser Focus does not work on the 50+ pets and is far easier to obtain than the greater focuses. 49 Pet is the best when chain summoning.

[Tann]

It's the Pet HP to Mana cost ratio. The 49 pet has the best HP to Mana ratio for all Magician pets. Also the Lesser Focus does not work on the 50+ pets and is far easier to obtain than the greater focuses. 49 Pet is the best when chain summoning.

Wouldn't the extra health not matter when it takes MORE damage due to it being lower level?

[long.liam]

Would be Marginal Differences in Mitigation. Not worth the extra mana cost.

[PatChapp]

Wouldn't the extra health not matter when it takes MORE damage due to it being lower level?

Yes very much, the 49 pet vs any decent xp mob at 57+ gets absolutely shredded, whereas the 57 pet holds it's own fine. I even found the 51 pet better on my own long haul on seafury island, I timed the fights and the 51 pet usually killed them about 45seconds - minute faster, and little downtime with either pet chaining 1 per mob there.

[PatChapp]

From my understanding almost universally it's agreed that the Water Pet at 60 does the most damage of any pet, including the epic, due to backstab. After 54 there is little reason to use anything else, except when you are paranoid and plan on chain summoning and nuking, in that situation you may want earth to root, but only if the situation prevents you from kiting.

The 57 earth pet is your solo pet from the time you get it. The water pet is much less tanky

[Balimon]

The 57 earth pet is your solo pet from the time you get it. The water pet is much less tanky

This is correct.

Also the focused 59 air is about the same tank wise, if a little better, if you don't need root.

[long.liam]

Yes very much, the 49 pet vs any decent xp mob at 57+ gets absolutely shredded, whereas the 57 pet holds it's own fine. I even found the 51 pet better on my own long haul on seafury island, I timed the fights and the 51 pet usually killed them about 45seconds - minute faster, and little downtime with either pet chaining 1 per mob there.

I'm very Skeptical of that. I would need to see an extensive parse of the 49 Earth Pet compared to the 51 and 57 Earth pets to believe that the Difference is anything other than very small. I would think 20 points of correlation across several level ranges. I would do it myself, but I just don't care enough and don't really play anymore. Even then I'm not sure it would be worth 2x the mana cost for the higher pet.

[long.liam]

Actually now that I think it about, in order for the extra mana cost to even break even, the Higher pet would need 2x the HP and 2x the damage to be worth it. Or possibly 2x the AC somehow. Yeah I'm extremely skeptical that the Higher pet has 2x the AC of the 49 pet.

[long.liam]

Unless my thinking is wrong about this. I actually think that the 49 pet is more mana efficient to use. If I'm wrong about this, please explain to me why my thinking is incorrect.

[PatChapp]

Unless my thinking is wrong about this. I actually think that the 49 pet is more mana efficient to use. If I'm wrong about this, please explain to me why my thinking is incorrect.

It is upwards of 8 lvls lower, which means higher level mobs destroy it and it kills much slower. If your farming greens I could see it being viable, but for xp mobs it's worthless at higher levels

[Balimon]

Correct it's the level of the pet that makes the largest difference

[ReoDobbs]

I'm very Skeptical of that. I would need to see an extensive parse of the 49 Earth Pet compared to the 51 and 57 Earth pets to believe that the Difference is anything other than very small. I would think 20 points of correlation across several level ranges. I would do it myself, but I just don't care enough and don't really play anymore. Even then I'm not sure it would be worth 2x the mana cost for the higher pet.

It's 150% the mana cost not 200%. Additionally level up a melee class fight a level 41 mob when you're level 41, once you hit level 45 go back and fight the same level 41 mob, let me know if you're at least 50% more efficient (spoiler it'll be far more than that).

This isn't even taking into account the level 51 and 57 Earth pet have a root that actually does damage and they love to spam it. (Pre 50 Earth pet root doesn't do damage).

Anytime I see a mage holding a shovel post 51 and is doing anything but chain casting I cringe because they've simply read something in some guide or YouTube video and can't think or test for themselves

[long.liam]

It's 150% the mana cost not 200%. Additionally level up a melee class fight a level 41 mob when you're level 41, once you hit level 45 go back and fight the same level 41 mob, let me know if you're at least 50% more efficient (spoiler it'll be far more than that).

This isn't even taking into account the level 51 and 57 Earth pet have a root that actually does damage and they love to spam it. (Pre 50 Earth pet root doesn't do damage).

Anytime I see a mage holding a shovel post 51 and is doing anything but chain casting I cringe because they've simply read something in some guide or YouTube video and can't think or test for themselves

57 Earth Pet cost 400 Mana: https://wiki.project1999.com/Greater_Vocaration:_Earth
49 Earth Pet cost 200 Mana: https://wiki.project1999.com/Greater_Conjuration:_Earth

And again unless someone shows me actually data to back up their claims, I don't believe that the 57 Pet is more efficient.

[Balimon]

57 Earth Pet cost 400 Mana: https://wiki.project1999.com/Greater_Vocaration:_Earth
49 Earth Pet cost 200 Mana: https://wiki.project1999.com/Greater_Conjuration:_Earth

And again unless someone shows me actually data to back up their claims, I don't believe that the 57 Pet is more efficient.

Will you accept first hand accounts? Or just pure data? I can give you a perfect example of why the 57 earth pet is better.

https://wiki.project1999.com/A_frost_giant_elite

The elite's in greater divide have around 6500 HP and are level 45~ or so. The 49 earth pet will die halfway through that fight and you'll need to summon another one to finish, and you would have to DS it again.

49 earth x2 + DS x2 + Burnout = 200x2 + 155x2 + 150 = 860 mana

57 earth + DS + Burnout = 400 + 155 + 150 = 705 mana

Then you would have the factor in the lost med time, when you would be re-summoning the pet, rebuffing the pet, running around like a chicken until the pet gets aggro.

I know this first hand because I would exp on those guys at 56 using Dyzil's (level 41-45) which is even higher level then the 49 earth(37-41), and would always need two pets to finish the mob. Once I got 57 and swapped to earth, it finished the mob by itself 9 out 10 times, and than I would just have to tank a little bit at the end, that's when the summon is the lowest level.

Now I'm not saying the shoveled 49 earth isn't worth using past 49, because it is, and there are plenty of exp spots where it's viable. If you don't have a water or air staff, it's prolly the best pet to use until 56 when you Dyzils, and then 57 when you get the final earth. If you really need logs I'm sure I can dig some out, but it's completely unnecessary, anyone can tell you that the 49 earth has a shelf life.

[long.liam]

Will you accept first hand accounts? Or just pure data? I can give you a perfect example of why the 57 earth pet is better.

https://wiki.project1999.com/A_frost_giant_elite

The elite's in greater divide have around 6500 HP and are level 45~ or so. The 49 earth pet will die halfway through that fight and you'll need to summon another one to finish, and you would have to DS it again.

49 earth x2 + DS x2 + Burnout = 200x2 + 155x2 + 150 = 860 mana

57 earth + DS + Burnout = 400 + 155 + 150 = 705 mana

Then you would have the factor in the lost med time, when you would be re-summoning the pet, rebuffing the pet, running around like a chicken until the pet gets aggro.

I know this first hand because I would exp on those guys at 56 using Dyzil's (level 41-45) which is even higher level then the 49 earth(37-41), and would always need two pets to finish the mob. Once I got 57 and swapped to earth, it finished the mob by itself 9 out 10 times, and than I would just have to tank a little bit at the end, that's when the summon is the lowest level.

Now I'm not saying the shoveled 49 earth isn't worth using past 49, because it is, and there are plenty of exp spots where it's viable. If you don't have a water or air staff, it's prolly the best pet to use until 56 when you Dyzils, and then 57 when you get the final earth. If you really need logs I'm sure I can dig some out, but it's completely unnecessary, anyone can tell you that the 49 earth has a shelf life.

From what I understood, Mages used a slightly different method to kill mobs before the pet aggro was bugged, before whatever changes that occurred that causes all pet aggro to switch to the mage. Back then the Mages wouldn't bother hasting or putting DS on the Pet. All they would do is start Summoning a New pet before their current pet died and then right before the spell landed they would use pet get lost. Mages used to be able to chain summoning down certain raid targets. This is probably not a viable strategy anymore, except maybe with the Earth Pet. I believe they wouldn't cast any buffs or DS on the Pets, so that the fresh pet could instantly pull aggro from the Mage each time the new pet was summoned.

[Balimon]

From what I understood, Mages used a slightly different method to kill mobs before the pet aggro was bugged, before whatever changes that occurred that causes all pet aggro to switch to the mage. Back then the Mages wouldn't bother hasting or putting DS on the Pet. All they would do is start Summoning a New pet before their current pet died and then right before the spell landed they would use pet get lost. Mages used to be able to chain summoning down certain raid targets. This is probably not a viable strategy anymore, except maybe with the Earth Pet. I believe they wouldn't cast any buffs or DS on the Pets, so that the fresh pet could instantly pull aggro from the Mage each time the new pet was summoned.

Pets definitely need DS at the the bare minimum, chaining an earth pet without DS is pointless, it will just die without doing any damage. I'm not sure why you are bringing up some obscure way to kill a raid mob, that wouldn't even work. You would need to chain summon fire pets with the innate DS to do what you're taking about.

I understand how the mechanics used to work just fine, I had a mage then too, even if that was still the case the earth pet would need a DS. Also I'd like to point out that post 55/57 you need to haste the pets as well to keep up with mob HP. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue at this point

[long.liam]

Pets definitely need DS at the the bare minimum, chaining an earth pet without DS is pointless, it will just die without doing any damage. I'm not sure why you are bringing up some obscure way to kill a raid mob, that wouldn't even work. You would need to chain summon fire pets with the innate DS to do what you're taking about.

I understand how the mechanics used to work just fine, I had a mage then too, even if that was still the case the earth pet would need a DS. Also I'd like to point out that post 55/57 you need to haste the pets as well to keep up with mob HP. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue at this point

You know that the Mage pets can do damage without a DS right? The DS is not the only way for a pet to damage a mob. This might be surprising to you, but the Mage pets will hit things. You should try it without DS. They can still kill mobs without that damage shield.

[Balimon]

You know that the Mage pets can do damage without a DS right? The DS is not the only way for a pet to damage a mob. This might be surprising to you, but the Mage pets will hit things. You should try it without DS. They can still kill mobs without that damage shield.

I think you should try playing a mage before making all these broad statements without any firsthand knowledge. I'm trying to explain how things actually work in the game, compared to how you think they should or how you heard they did.

[long.liam]

I think you should try playing a mage before making all these broad statements without any firsthand knowledge. I'm trying to explain how things actually work in the game, compared to how you think they should or how you heard they did.

Ok. Nice counter argument. Clearly you have nothing more to add to this debate.

[long.liam]

I think you should try playing a mage before making all these broad statements without any firsthand knowledge. I'm trying to explain how things actually work in the game, compared to how you think they should or how you heard they did.

I apologize for my earlier statement. I got a little upset and I felt like I was being attacked. I've been told before I have anger issues and I'm trying to work on them. I concede that perhaps I don't know everything there is about the Mage class and perhaps other people may know more than I do. If I post again, I will try to include some actual concrete in game data and not round about statements or conjecture.

[Vaarsuvius]

Why so little love for the 59 Air Pet ?
It's tanky enough that I've almost never felt like reverting to the 57 Earth Pet, even more so with the PoS focus staff.
Just spend a couple hours in Droga or a caster heavy zones with both pet and enjoy. Stunned mobs >> rooted mobs IMO

If I just need a meat shield, I guess I'll use MSIII over Earth pet for the added HPs

[Bardp1999]

Its the same for Necros and the Monk pet we get at 56. Basically no reason to use it ever. The 49 warrior pet tanks better, the 53 rogue pet does far more damage, and the EoT at 60 can tank and damage well while also winning fashion quest.

I guess you could make an arguement that the Monk pet would be of a higher level from 56-59 buts over all pretty worthless compared to the 53 pet and 60 pet

[Balimon]

I apologize for my earlier statement. I got a little upset and I felt like I was being attacked. I've been told before I have anger issues and I'm trying to work on them. I concede that perhaps I don't know everything there is about the Mage class and perhaps other people may know more than I do. If I post again, I will try to include some actual concrete in game data and not round about statements or conjecture.

Thank you, I apologize if I came off as attacking you. I just love to debate this stuff, and I was trying to explain that you're right to a point. But after a certain mob level the 49 earth just doesn't cut it anymore and is inefficient. The 49 pet spells are ridiculously overpowered.

[Balimon]

Why so little love for the 59 Air Pet ?
It's tanky enough that I've almost never felt like reverting to the 57 Earth Pet, even more so with the PoS focus staff.
Just spend a couple hours in Droga or a caster heavy zones with both pet and enjoy. Stunned mobs >> rooted mobs IMO

If I just need a meat shield, I guess I'll use MSIII over Earth pet for the added HPs

The 59 air pet is money. If you have the focus staff he tanks much better than the 57 earth in my opinion because of the monk class. I've done a small bit of testing and unfocused it has 2500 hp and focused it 3000 hp or so, the stun is amazing. The only issue is no bash, only the earth/epic pet is a warrior post 50.

I used focused air exclusively solo and small group ( and even in hate or fear ) until epic. Focused water is great DPS, but I always enjoyed the utility more on air. I tested it first on seafuries in OoT when I was leveling up, comparing the 53 air to 54 water. The air generally ended the fight with more HP and since there's no backstabs it's hard to see the difference in DPS, it was counter intuitive considering the stuns are useless on those mobs. You can see the difference between 57 earth and 59 air really well on Suits on WL, the air handles itself much better.