Magician is just not fun in P99

[Zenren]

I played a magician in live, up until Luclan, when I finally left the game and I don't remember it being this miserable to play. Sure there was chain summoning, but the agro thing is just absurd. It was absolutely not like this. I feel like a core group of people get to say "this is what it was like" and even though the majority don't remember it being like that, if you have the ear of the emperor that's how it's going to be. Even if, and I say that with a grain of salt, even if it was like this, if everyone on green says they hate it, why keep it? Is it really that important to maintain the integrity of the actual P99 experience, if everyone that's experiencing it is miserable?

I've put my magician away now and I probably wont return unless it's fixed. It just isn't fun to play anymore and I don't see the point of playing if the only way I can efficiently solo is with an earth pet alone. Anyways that's my two cents. I'm sure this has been beaten into the ground, but I just returned and found out about these changes the hard way (mobs killing me because my pet dies and the second pet can't grab agro). Any thoughts?

[loramin]

Any thoughts?

Find evidence, Nilbog will fix it. Otherwise you're stuck waiting at the mercy of people who do classic research.

[Jibartik]

I've put my magician away now and I probably wont return unless it's fixed. It just isn't fun to play anymore and I don't see the point of playing if the only way I can efficiently solo is with an earth pet alone. Anyways that's my two cents. I'm sure this has been beaten into the ground, but I just returned and found out about these changes the hard way (mobs killing me because my pet dies and the second pet can't grab agro). Any thoughts?

Bro I've felt this way about magicians since 1999. They suck.

Welcome to the promised land of steel and blood. :D

[PatChapp]

I played a magician in live, up until Luclan, when I finally left the game and I don't remember it being this miserable to play. Sure there was chain summoning, but the agro thing is just absurd. It was absolutely not like this. I feel like a core group of people get to say "this is what it was like" and even though the majority don't remember it being like that, if you have the ear of the emperor that's how it's going to be. Even if, and I say that with a grain of salt, even if it was like this, if everyone on green says they hate it, why keep it? Is it really that important to maintain the integrity of the actual P99 experience, if everyone that's experiencing it is miserable?

I've put my magician away now and I probably wont return unless it's fixed. It just isn't fun to play anymore and I don't see the point of playing if the only way I can efficiently solo is with an earth pet alone. Anyways that's my two cents. I'm sure this has been beaten into the ground, but I just returned and found out about these changes the hard way (mobs killing me because my pet dies and the second pet can't grab agro). Any thoughts?
Mage still pretty fun, chaining pets on overly tough mobs isn't the only way to level. It's still trivial using earth pets anyway,just less so indoors.

[ReoDobbs]

Find evidence, Nilbog will fix it. Otherwise you're stuck waiting at the mercy of people who do classic research.

Aggro transferring from pet to mage when the pet dies was an undocumented change that nobody has acknowledged. Has nothing to do with "classic research"

[Zenren]

Aggro transferring from pet to mage when the pet dies was an undocumented change that nobody has acknowledged. Has nothing to do with "classic research"

This. There is no evidence that it was like this and if you talk to people from back in the day no one remembers agro being like this. This was something someone who gave themselves the title "researcher" decided. It's absurd that they're keeping this in the game when LITERALLY no one but these researchers seems to remember it being like this. If you want the game to be your own private idaho, that's fine, but don't call it Classic when it's not, or at the very least provide indisputable evidence that it was like that.

[Toxigen]

mages are purely for leveling to 55 and parking in some remote location for raid coths

play any other class

[unleashedd]

dont solo a mmo. next!

[Stonewallx39]

dont solo a mmo. next!

^this!

Also wonder if they could buff group xp modifier to incentivize grouping. It’s a little broken that solo xp is the best xp. That was not “classic” in the sense that no one was able to min/max xp like that before we had the knowledge we do today.

[loramin]

Aggro transferring from pet to mage when the pet dies was an undocumented change that nobody has acknowledged. Has nothing to do with "classic research"

This. There is no evidence that it was like this and if you talk to people from back in the day no one remembers agro being like this. This was something someone who gave themselves the title "researcher" decided. It's absurd that they're keeping this in the game when LITERALLY no one but these researchers seems to remember it being like this. If you want the game to be your own private idaho, that's fine, but don't call it Classic when it's not, or at the very least provide indisputable evidence that it was like that.

And yet both of you are too lazy to provide a shred of evidence. Meanwhile those "people who [didn't] give themselves the title "researcher"' (because, they're not doing anything for a title, they're just volunteering their time to make things more classic) are doing the actual work of trying to find proof of how mage pet agro actually worked.

But since we're all too lazy to help, we just have to wait for the people that aren't.

[Gustoo]

Only feature I don't care about is that the original PVP implementation of mage pets meant that a mage pet could be attacking a player at a guard, and the guard would do nothing to the mage pet owner (possibly if he was just outside of aggro range?)

But then, if the attacked player hits the pet, the guards would kill the player, based on faction. If player attacking pet was ally the guards would not aggro. I don't remember if they always attack the lower faction person or they just attack anyone they see attacking in their presence. It's been a long time since newbie pvp sadly.

[Jimjam]

Only feature I don't care about is that the original PVP implementation of mage pets meant that a mage pet could be attacking a player at a guard, and the guard would do nothing to the mage pet owner (possibly if he was just outside of aggro range?)

But then, if the attacked player hits the pet, the guards would kill the player, based on faction. If player attacking pet was ally the guards would not aggro. I don't remember if they always attack the lower faction person or they just attack anyone they see attacking in their presence. It's been a long time since newbie pvp sadly.

Guards should just straight up kill elementals and skeletons. Those things don't belong in civilised areas (wish listing).

[branamil]

And yet both of you are too lazy to provide a shred of evidence. Meanwhile those "people who [didn't] give themselves the title "researcher"' (because, they're not doing anything for a title, they're just volunteering their time to make things more classic) are doing the actual work of trying to find proof of how mage pet agro actually worked.

But since we're all too lazy to help, we just have to wait for the people that aren't.

Please provide evidence that it was supposed to work the way it does now.

[loramin]

Please provide evidence that it was supposed to work the way it does now.

I don't have any, so we're tied. Ties go to the developer who slaves away at making all this for us, and he's (in absence of further evidence) settled on the current implementation.

But again, provide proof and he'll (almost certainly) change it, because accurate classic is the goal of this whole project ... just look in the upper-left corner :)

[starkind]

The mage pet agro transfer thing isn't something I recall either way.

U should be fighting mobs your fresh pet can taunt off you. Or kiting with an air pet stun.

Get 3 air pets going for an exp grp and it's just amazing lol.

Mages can easily solo, and grp to 60 and are highly desirable pals to have for healers, duos, trios, etc. Even iffff they are horribly broken and wrong on this timeline.

The game is instantly funner when u stop trying to solo all content and give the slower pace a chance by chatting it up or doing quests.

[Zenren]

So my complaint is that I've died due to agro, even when I've been in a group. A few times this has happened. Pet agro is not as it was, at least not as I remember it, and I would like to see where they deduced it worked like this. I don't think anyone is going to be able to provide evidence, because it was literally 20+ years ago and the technology to prove it doesn't exist, nor does the source code, so all we have is opinions and memory. My argument is that enjoyment should be held in higher regard than "perceived authenticity" because one is speculation and the other is factual.

[unleashedd]

If u were grouped and your pet died because u didn't assist tank and then agro xferd to u, sounds like tactics problem, not coding problem

[ReoDobbs]

So my complaint is that I've died due to agro, even when I've been in a group. A few times this has happened. Pet agro is not as it was, at least not as I remember it, and I would like to see where they deduced it worked like this. I don't think anyone is going to be able to provide evidence, because it was literally 20+ years ago and the technology to prove it doesn't exist, nor does the source code, so all we have is opinions and memory. My argument is that enjoyment should be held in higher regard than "perceived authenticity" because one is speculation and the other is factual.

But see, since it likely accidentally got changed with a patch (or else it would have been mentioned) you have to go find some archived useless post where someone acknowledges that pets kept aggro with it not transferring to the caster (who the fug is going to post about something working correctly?).

It's clearly a bug and people defending it just like to be condescending because it makes them feel good for some odd reason

[SephS]

I was a mage main on live for years and pet aggro never transferred to the mage.. No evidence other than memory.

But I suppose there's a giant invisible teapot in the sky, prove it doesn't exist.

[Tunabros]

how do people find mages fun at all

[loramin]

It's clearly a bug and people defending it just like to be condescending because it makes them feel good for some odd reason

Or maybe no one is defending any bug. Maybe they're defending the development process that has worked for over a decade here.

Meanwhile, as a mage who didn't play in classic, I'm curious how this all worked: if your pet died, and you hadn't hurt the mob ... it just went back to what it was doing?

[starkind]

Or maybe no one is defending any bug. Maybe they're defending the development process that has worked for over a decade here.

Meanwhile, as a mage who didn't play in classic, I'm curious how this all worked: if your pet died, and you hadn't hurt the mob ... it just went back to what it was doing?

Iirc pet agro just disappeared and whatever minimal prox or initial agro u had on the hatelist, + spells landed, or resist. So it probably should be very little.

Just like if a group mate died. You wouldn't get their agro. If you're second on the list though you should probably stop attacking! Seems reasonable.

I don't know.

Is there even a bug report open? Any word from the staff about how it's working now? What's intended? Or are we just going on OPs anecdote?

I also remember chain pets being mostly an outdoor thing (lots of room to run until fresh pet taunts). Or multiple mage or group thing, and not a common indoor soloing method. Seems also reasonable as necros are mostly in the same boat with fear, as well as druids until they get neck + epic and bracers or w/e

[starkind]

So there are two bug reports. *some* evidence posted. Haynar and Nilbog agreeing. Nilbog saying he even played a mage in classic. ..While not 100% sure on a fix/update and reasons for it to be the way it is now. Mostly raids where trivial in classic because of pets. And they'd rather they'd be funner here instead of being 100% brokenly classic, so 80% classic. You could probably still pet chain, kite alizeasaur.

It was possible to chain pets awhile. 5 pets is a lot to cast on AC cyclops, it was done though. Seems like in that case the successful pet casts were generating agro.

I'll Google some when I'm bored.

No one hates you because you play a mage. It's a bit off right now. Being mean and taking it personally isn't effective.

Grab a buddy if you need to kill a boss mob.

[Jimjam]

Sounds like a bug caused by spaghetti code. I hope it can be straightened out without breaking anything else.

[unsunghero]

Or maybe no one is defending any bug. Maybe they're defending the development process that has worked for over a decade here.

Meanwhile, as a mage who didn't play in classic, I'm curious how this all worked: if your pet died, and you hadn't hurt the mob ... it just went back to what it was doing?

I believe so

I remember from playing enchanter in classic, I mostly just charm solo’d outside. And I’m fairly sure back then that when a mob aggro’d onto the charmed pet and killed it, the mob would just continue pathing along where it was going after. It wouldn’t come after you unless you did something to it

But on P99 it comes after you after killing your charmed pet

[Zenren]

I would prefer if they're focused on classic, to make magicians 100% classic.

[starkind]

Yep agreed. It's funner to see how the game really was than get pixels and raid imho.

[Ligma]

Meanwhile, as a mage who didn't play in classic, I'm curious how this all worked: if your pet died, and you hadn't hurt the mob ... it just went back to what it was doing?

Actually, yes. But only if the pet was fighting the mob for more than 10 minutes. Mage would just be given one point of agro unless he got initial agro or was sitting. Mobs forget you after 10 minutes, so it was legitimately possible to have your pet agro'd on a NPC with you having none

[Balimon]

Or maybe no one is defending any bug. Maybe they're defending the development process that has worked for over a decade here.

Meanwhile, as a mage who didn't play in classic, I'm curious how this all worked: if your pet died, and you hadn't hurt the mob ... it just went back to what it was doing?

I don't know it worked in 1999, but on Blue when your pet died, you would have zero aggro on the mob. Once you sent a new pet in it would snap the mob back as soon as it landed a hit or spell attack.

What's different now is the some or all of the pets aggro is transferred back to the mage, this change happened sometime after Green opened, I know this because I was playing my mage on blue right before Green launch and this wasn't an issue.

[Zenren]

No one remembers it working like it does now. That's the problem. The only person who seems to recollect this process is a "researcher". I'm wondering where they dug up this research? It would be nice to find out.

[branamil]

It's just disingenious that this bug would be left in because it's """classic""" (a dubious assertion at best). But the server clearly doesn't care about what is classic in other areas. There's probably at least 100 other examples of "yeah it's not classic.. but it works better this way". So if you're tweaking things because it's actually better than classic, then why not mages? It's just annoying that they want to be game designers in some ways but in other ways they don't.

[derpcake2]

This is the same issue as bards not being able to kite multiple mobs with charm, since all the pet agro is incorrectly transferred to the bard on a charm break.

There are multiple threads on it here.

[ReoDobbs]

Or maybe no one is defending any bug. Maybe they're defending the development process that has worked for over a decade here.

Meanwhile, as a mage who didn't play in classic, I'm curious how this all worked: if your pet died, and you hadn't hurt the mob ... it just went back to what it was doing?

In classic if you didn't attack it worked the same as proximity aggro. You're not going to lose the aggro unless someone peels it off which was done with a simple pet taunt/single hit from a pet. Much the same way it was here until a recent UNDOCUMENTED change. Do they ever make "classic" changes without shouting it from the rooftops on patch notes?


Also the way you actively campaign against certain classes (pretty much certain casters) telling "but prove it isn't classic!". I'm going to go out on a limb and say you "actively playing a mage here" is more an offshoot of you running out of things to do vs actually enjoy/trying to understand and immerse yourself in a character.

[starkind]

Nilbog and Haynar both as much admitted the present implementation isn't truly classic. They aren't being disingenuous. Just no one is willing, able, or gotten around to changing it.

Most likely because the present implementation helps mitigate people pet zergging pre sky style raid mobs without big aoe fears and damages and stuff.

I too would find more evidence towards what we actually remember interesting. It's getting harder and harder to find.

This does hurt mages. It far from makes them unplayable. If anything other classes need similar style nerfs to bring them more in line with Brads vision if we are going to keep things custom so a psuedoclassic difficulty remains.

[loramin]

Also the way you actively campaign against certain classes (pretty much certain casters) telling "but prove it isn't classic!". I'm going to go out on a limb and say you "actively playing a mage here" is more an offshoot of you running out of things to do vs actually enjoy/trying to understand and immerse yourself in a character.

I don't campaign against any class, I campaign for classic changes.

And as for me "immersing myself" in being a Mage ... I've logged 20+ hours tracking in Hate recently to try and get Magi for my epic: does that qualify by your standards?

[Penish]

I don't campaign against any class, I campaign for classic changes.

And as for me "immersing myself" in being a Mage ... I've logged 20+ hours tracking in Hate recently to try and get Magi for my epic: does that qualify by your standards?

this guys a winner, lol

[Zenren]

So it's not Project 1999, a recreation of Classic Everquest, it's Project 1999, how the designers wanted it to be. I mean they're doing the designing, but really? Does anyone know how magician aggro works on The Al'Kabor Project?

[ReoDobbs]

I don't campaign against any class, I campaign for classic changes.

And as for me "immersing myself" in being a Mage ... I've logged 20+ hours tracking in Hate recently to try and get Magi for my epic: does that qualify by your standards?

And again look through the bug forums, it's been acknowledged few argue it (except you).

Also, guess what? The aggro bug doesn't appear to exist on green, much the same way the last 4 hotkeys don't save when you zone in green but not blue. Or is the hotkey issue time specific and intentional and I need to find proof otherwise there as well?

You continue to hide behind "its classic" for any change that has accidentally or purposefully been made on this game. It's like you can't acknowledge the devs could have possibly made a mistake.

[loramin]

You continue to hide behind "its classic" for any change that has accidentally or purposefully been made on this game. It's like you can't acknowledge the devs could have possibly made a mistake.

Devs (on any project) make mistakes and have bugs. I literally already said:

Or maybe no one is defending any bug. Maybe they're defending the development process that has worked for over a decade here.

My point is ... bugs happen. Both intentional ones made from lack of classic knowledge, and accidental ones made from coding mistakes.

Project 1999 has a well-established process for dealing with bugs. That process is simple: players report bugs, and provide classic evidence with them. Staff evaluates evidence, and then fixes bugs ... when they can.

P99 is a free project, and they have limited staff, so of course they're not going to fix every bug instantly. In the meantime, you can bitch and moan about how evil the devs are for intentionally making your life difficult and ignoring that which seems obviously wrong to you ... or you can accept your 100% free game, and submit bug reports with classic evidence if you want to try and speed the process along.

[starkind]

So it seems like the new pet dmg per lvl numbers no longer matchup (except fire pet DS)

and maybe the bash/kick numbers

anyone got an updated list so i can go fix the wiki ?!

[starkind]

so max hit for 24 pet is like 23 dmg (not 26) 17 bash still tho

minimum could be 14 or 15 i dont remember which

[NPC]

That's why I quit playing the server, this isn't the only thing screwed by people randomly setting things they know nothing about. EQ back in the day was not balance, but this server unbalances things even further to the classes that already had an edge on actual live servers. Chanters, Shamans, and Monks are way over powered, even more so than classic. Why play any other class?

[Tann]

Chanters, Shamans, and Monks are way over powered, even more so than classic. Why play any other class?

Just cause something is OP doesn't mean you have to play it.

[unsunghero]

Chanters, Shamans, and Monks are way over powered, even more so than classic. Why play any other class?

Well for enchanter from what I’ve read people will say charming is too stressful and they want to play p99 to relax. This is other people’s opinion not mine since my main is chanter

I didn’t want to play monk because pulling never appealed to me and I didn’t like the idea of having to constantly be deleting coins managing weight. Also thought that pressing attack and then flying kick every few seconds could feel boring, but monk is still something I do think about playing as a twink frequently

Shaman never appealed to me (and assuming many others) because I knew I would never be able to save 200,000pp to get it jbb + epic +torpor + bane of nife/others

But I agree these classes are strong, stronger than classic probably

[Tann]

^^^ those 3 classes are also mostly OP in a few situations and boring as hell in others. Enchanters are amazing at soloing all kinds of content but in raids... Tash and buff, a slow if the shaman fell asleep from the exhilarating job of buffing and slowing.

Mages, regardless of nerfs, are single blue con killing machines and provide steady dps in groups. Good raid dps too I think. So what if they can't dungeon dive into HS or Seb to farm big ticket drops.

[loramin]

Good raid dps too I think.

Depends heavily on the content. Lots of Velious encounters you can't use pets on at all, and Mages are relegated to just being CotH bots and mod rod generators.

[Tann]

Depends heavily on the content. Lots of Velious encounters you can't use pets on at all, and Mages are relegated to just being CotH bots and mod rod generators.

I should probably put a disclaimer on anything I say in regards to raids, last time I was involved in one of those was 2002-2003.

[unsunghero]

I should probably put a disclaimer on anything I say in regards to raids, last time I was involved in one of those was 2002-2003.

Well you right about chanters. Just buff bots, and then they do a bedlam rotation of cast bedlam and wait x seconds or something (for other chanters to cast it)…for bosses they seem to sometimes have responsibility of charming a mob to dps. This was only for bosses, but then again I only saw one raid

Being a level too low to charm anything or even slow anything I was just buffing and was bored to tears. Probably part of the reason I have only logged in 1 hour over the past week. End game looking bleak. Raiding definitely looks fun for melee dps and tanks (even paladin and sk tanks were tanking some raid mobs, just not bosses)

[loramin]

Well you right about chanters. Just buff bots, and then they do a bedlam rotation of cast bedlam and wait x seconds or something (for other chanters to cast it)…for bosses they seem to sometimes have responsibility of charming a mob to dps. This was only for bosses, but then again I only saw one raid

Being a level too low to charm anything or even slow anything I was just buffing and was bored to tears. Probably part of the reason I have only logged in 1 hour over the past week. End game looking bleak. Raiding definitely looks fun for melee dps and tanks (even paladin and sk tanks were tanking some raid mobs, just not bosses)

They also Mana Sieve (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mana_Sieve), which is critical to many encounters (without them you have bosses CHing or gating just when you thought you were going to win the fight).

[loramin]

That's why I quit playing the server, this isn't the only thing screwed by people randomly setting things they know nothing about. EQ back in the day was not balance, but this server unbalances things even further to the classes that already had an edge on actual live servers. Chanters, Shamans, and Monks are way over powered, even more so than classic. Why play any other class?

First off, I think a lot of the issue isn't the devs, it's player knowledge. For instance, I played a Barbarian Shaman on live during the classic era, and I can promise you I (and most other live Shaman) were not using clickies to instantly recast Cannibalize (the way I and most Shaman do here). Similarly, most Enchanters on live didn't have suits of -MR gear to give to their pets (hell, I'd even go so far as to say that the bulk of all Enchanters didn't charm at all: they sat in groups and did CC and haste/clarity).

But some of it is the dev's fault ... well, not really their fault, but it's their issue to fix. The problem is, sometimes they just don't have the data to make things accurate.

Thankfully, people like Dolalin do crazy amounts of research to dig up that data, and as a result the devs constantly make things better. For instance, see the upcoming "charm nerf" that was a direct result of his efforts, which I hope will bring Enchanters at least somewhat closer to how they actually were on live in the classic era.

[Zenren]

Well the topic veered off course, but that happens, to return it to the original topic, with the badgering of my friend who did not want to duo cleric/necro, but wanted magician/necro, I kept playing and eventually ended up hitting level 50 last night. I want to reiterate, I have not changed my opinion about much of what I said, however post 40 magicians are much more viable because their pets are much more beefy and able to survive most mobs you will encounter. I highly recommend that anyone playing always have an earth pet and if you think, for even a second, that you might need to chain summon pets, have your earth pet ready, unless you have jboots and space to move, otherwise you may be in for a world of hurt.

My final analysis is that magicians are among the most annoying to level on P99, but their inherent strengths enable them to survive, despite the agro bugs in place. However, if my friend hadn't pushed me so hard to play and stay focused, I would've given him up 15 levels ago.

[Balimon]

Mage isn't for everyone. I'm surprised you found it annoying, considering how easy it is these days with all spells in and focus itrms. I'd like to tell you gets better 50+ but it doesn't, not till 57 really. If you make it to 60 and get some good kit, mage Is a lot of fun.

[PatChapp]

Mage isn't for everyone. I'm surprised you found it annoying, considering how easy it is these days with all spells in and focus itrms. I'd like to tell you gets better 50+ but it doesn't, not till 57 really. If you make it to 60 and get some good kit, mage Is a lot of fun.

Yeah really, mage super easy 1-55, only started to feel a little outrun by mobs after that.
Maybe he only wanted to chain multiple pets on big kills

[derpcake2]

You can always make a necro and not buy 80% of your spells if you want the superior magician experience.

Buy pet, your best lifetap, root, gate, and FD. Ignore everything else, including DA which is huge value on the pet chaining front, but since mages can't do that, we'll pretend necros can't either.

[Balimon]

Yeah really, mage super easy 1-55, only started to feel a little outrun by mobs after that.
Maybe he only wanted to chain multiple pets on big kills

Could be, you still can do that, carefully with earth pets. Or by kiting outdoors /shrug

[tg822]

Any more nerfs on the horizon for mages? How about we make summoning require some obscure reagent, or make the mage take half of whatever damage your pet takes. Fun stuff like that

[Tann]

Any more nerfs on the horizon for mages? How about we make summoning require some obscure reagent, or make the mage take half of whatever damage your pet takes. Fun stuff like that

Regardless of nerfs and adjustments mage is still a strong mob killer, and probably the most mana efficient one at that.

If you can manage to kill something with only one pet and a baby nuke after reclaiming then you've barely spent any mana and gotten exp. Necros, shamans, enchanters, for all their strengths and mana recover still need to drop a lot of mana to kill something.

[Zenren]

I think the issue has always been pet agro transferring to the player. It was never like that, people, I think, have acknowledged that, and for whatever reason it was implemented, it did more harm than good. I hope for those coming up they change it back to the way it was. My post was just to let people know that Magician does get better. For me it was around level 50.

[long.liam]

Yeah, it kinda breaks my heart a little bit. I really enjoy the Mage class lore wise. The idea of summoning a powerful minion to destroy your enemies sounds awesome. Unfortunately on this Emulated server, the Mage class kinda blows. It's very broken and dysfunctional at this point and will likely be permanently stuck like that. It's kinda depressing. Mages are mostly just coth bots, to be honest.

[Ichewith]

TLP servers are from the real game lol and thru these era's there is chain summoning and the mage pets are much stronger so not sure what more evidence u need

[PatChapp]

TLP servers are from the real game lol and thru these era's there is chain summoning and the mage pets are much stronger so not sure what more evidence u need

Tlp servers are not classic everquest, they are modern everquest with limited expansions. Any evidence for changes has to be presented from the classic era.

[Tunabros]

magicians arent fun in general

play the master caster class

the necro!

[tg822]

Magicians pre nerf-flogging were actually decently fun and a very chill group class. They aren’t even in the same universe as necros in terms of power. Maybe with the epic I guess, which is of course only for a very select few players

[Toxigen]

Magicians pre nerf-flogging were actually decently fun and a very chill group class. They aren’t even in the same universe as necros in terms of power. Maybe with the epic I guess, which is of course only for a very select few players

Solo? Still not even close to necro.

They're too 1 dimensional. No CC ruins mages.

[enjchanter]

does a focused water pet outdps an epic pet assuming neither pet is tanking

[loramin]

Solo? Still not even close to necro.

They're too 1 dimensional. No CC ruins mages.

If we're talking live pre-nerf, Mage pets could tank as well (if not better) than warriors. You don't need CC when you're the best tanking class in the game ;)

But without that (and despite this place's claim to shoot for classic, worts and all, that particular wort somehow got left off) Mages are just inferior but viable soloers, and a decent but inferior DPS role in groups.

[Toxigen]

If we're talking live pre-nerf, Mage pets could tank as well (if not better) than warriors. You don't need CC when you're the best tanking class in the game ;)

But without that (and despite this place's claim to shoot for classic, worts and all, that particular wort somehow got left off) Mages are just inferior but viable soloers, and a decent but inferior DPS role in groups.

Back in relevant terms on blue, mages are coth bots. You stop leveling at 55 unless you're ultra hardcore going for epic or just want to finish off a 60.

They cannot do much compared to a necro (again, solo).

Hope this helps.