Human Brain Computer

[Gustoo]

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-empty-brain?utm_source=fbsynd&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2ZcxFjWYA57QLx2nE9_KWIJQ3uYLHkQRb7I138l ntNaqXkLHBtjCd84g4

Discuss article that suggests discarding poor analogies.

[Tunabros]

the real life mentat

[Gustoo]

The summarized premise is that the analogy between the human brain and a computer is one that we use without adequate acknowledgement of its shortcomings and this concept has likely hindered our progress in understanding our own brains rather than helped it.

Just yesterday I heard someone in a group of people say "Yeah they're working on downloading your brain into a computer" and someone else immediately agreed "Yeah they will do that in no time" I chimed in and said "well they can download your shopping behavior surely but thats about it" because that is pretty much all the brain science we have today - the stuff Facebook collects that pairs certain interaction data with the financial data which allows for better predictive models than ever before.

But it's no where near putting an adequate facsimile of any humans brain into a computer.

[Jibartik]

My ultimate chicken and the egg question is:

Are computers and animals identical because we designed computers to imitate us, or were we designed to imitate a computer?

[Jibartik]

The way google visual machine learning works is identical to the way the human brain processes images.

Computers have the same organs we do for the same reasons, we just have more features.

Organic lenses never fog.

Organic tissue can heal itself easier than mechanical.

organic tissue can mr fusion food and garbage into energy (like back to the future 2)

Every day little machines literally PRINT your DNA and make you into a walking, self replicating DNA printing machine, computer.

https://i.imgur.com/twxLrvc.gif

[Gustoo]

The best machines follow natural principles to the best of our ability to make them do so.

The point here is that a computer and the way it processes data is nothing like a brain.

We build machines that work the way we know they will work. We make non biological life imitate biological life.

[Trexller]

what do you folks think will occur first, a computer that can host the human consciousness, or a machine that can keep the brain alive indefinitely?

[Jibartik]

what do you folks think will occur first, a computer that can host the human consciousness, or a machine that can keep the brain alive indefinitely?

Great question, I wonder if we'll ever even be able to really define what a human consciousness is, before we develop something that says it has one.

The best machines follow natural principles to the best of our ability to make them do so.

The point here is that a computer and the way it processes data is nothing like a brain.

We build machines that work the way we know they will work. We make non biological life imitate biological life.

js6uTRT8KO4

[Whale biologist]

the real life mentat

Got it backwards. They did a jihad over computer humans and human computers came after.

[robayon]

I always thought it was good to be skeptical of supposed AI or brain downloading type of stuff, unless it's obviously in some fictional context

But how do you explain the McRib NFT?! Technology can clearly do wonders now

[Gustoo]

what do you folks think will occur first, a computer that can host the human consciousness, or a machine that can keep the brain alive indefinitely?

Of your options, definitely a machine to keep the human brain alive is more likely to me.

More likely than anything is the possibility of a high level of integration between the human brain and a computer, like the brain implants all throughout sci fi. Right now I'm thinking of the ones in old mans war I think they call em brain pals.

[Jibartik]

I really like the story in foundation how after the AI war, they killed all the AI sympathizers.

People who felt empathy towards machines that said they had conciouness, were killed by people who had consciousness for having empathy for things with consciousnesses lol

Effing awesome and terrifying.

[Gustoo]

Yeah pretty savage.

[Trexller]

note to self: build faraday cages, and local emp devices

[Jimjam]

In the Warhammer 40,000 setting AI is treated with suspicion and is a forbidden technology. For complicated computation tasks, this is is worked around by having a series of organic brains networked together as an analogue computer.

The targeting computer on an automated laser cannon? Some petty criminal's skull jelly in a jar.

[Gustoo]

It's been a sci fi concept for a while that AI is outlawed. Probably just for the fun of it.

[unsunghero]

Interesting. At work atm so could only skim it

I did a college paper on Savant Syndrome, what Rain man (Kim Peek is his real name I believe) had. It has many different forms, artistic/spatial, mathematical, etc. Rain man could speed read one eye scanning each book’s page, and commit every word to memory, and recall anything that was written on any page

Usually it’s the brain compensating for some sort of organic damage or medical trauma, and in the past with people like Rain Man they had severe neurological problems that made communicating how their brain is working impossible to do

But one guy had savant syndrome and could communicate, so they did a documentary about his brain, lemme see if I can find it. The way he describes how he does these incredible complex math computations was really interesting, just numbers in his mind flashing by with the correct ones like lit up or something. For him, it was not conscious analytical computation like we would expect, but more like subconscious, like the computations we do when riding a bike

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PPySn3slfXI

[Jibartik]

It's been a sci fi concept for a while that AI is outlawed. Probably just for the fun of it.

If you think about it, lucifer was like, "god if you create those little AI they will destroy everything else you have created they should be outlawed!"

and god was like wanna bet?

[Gustoo]

Thanks for sharing that nice video

[Jibartik]

everything in this video is created with computer AI except for the weird al lookin guy

PqbB07n_uQ4

[starkind]

Bad idea. They'll kill us all.

Maybe that's the way it's going to have to be though. Maybe that's what we're descended from.

Can't imagine a computer that feels the way I do would be very patient with humanity.

Without thousands of years of experience to temper it.

[unsunghero]

This one I stumbled upon about autism is interesting. There was this girl who had severe autism and everyone assumed she was what is clinically referred to as “low functioning”, “non-communicative”, but it turns out she was understanding everything around her, she just couldn’t speak

So she communicated through a computer, and gave a look into how severe/acute autism affects the brain. I think I remember her mentioning that stimuli to her is like her brain is trying to take millions of pictures every second, and it just is constantly overwhelmed by the bombardment of stimuli so she has to hit something or herself because her brain is like, burning…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm0OGJwoYmg

[Jibartik]

N5BKctcZxrM

[Trexller]

Finally, A.I. will solve humanities greatest problem:

Is Hilary Swank hot? :confused::confused:

[Jibartik]

https://i.imgur.com/ZHtZltE.png

[starkind]

Naw. Definitely not attractive or bangable.

[Jibartik]

Show of hands who thinks Hillary swank is hot?

[starkind]

Sad thing is if we are the human brain computer and we are just solving for some variable X, like the
Hotness or notness of Hillary Swank over time which could be dynamic and not really have a single solution, except maybe a guessable mean, which we weren't asked to solve for.

Maybe we'll never know.

[Trexller]

This game is really hard. Its so much easier to say, "I'd hit that", which I would, rather than is she, "hot"

So, attractive, maybe hot... But not in clint eastwood movies

Stellar Bod tho. the body is sheer female perfection.

I figured it out. Hilary Swank is a "Hot Butterface"

https://i.imgur.com/AssTjNq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j2HLRRn.jpg

[starkind]

Horny males will likely fuck almost anything even if their brains are simplified computer models of the outputs of real horny male brains.

[Trexller]

Yeah that's a double-bagger.

i wonder if the entire experiment is contaminated by forbidding, "would you do her" and including a diverse sample set of all genders/sexual orientations.

This is really very simple for straight men: "I'd hit it"

is one able to offer an objective opinion of a woman's looks if they are not wired to be attracted to women?

[Whale biologist]

Horny males will likely fuck almost anything even if their brains are simplified computer models of the outputs of real horny male brains.

https://i.imgur.com/xA6QZWP.jpg

[Trexller]

Horny males will likely fuck almost anything even if their brains are simplified computer models of the outputs of real horny male brains.

Even more questions now

are we rating her looks as if she were a flower in a meadow? or a woman in the red light district?

Kevin was right, "a painting can be beautiful, but i don't wanna bang a painting"

as far as humans rating other human's looks, the entire mechanism is designed to make males and females pair off and procreate.

Given Swank's definite physical health and prowess as a potential female breeding candidate, then the answer to this question across the board of breeding age human males is unequivocally:

"I'd Hit That"

[starkind]

It would no longer be objective for that particular subset of the population. Horny straight males.

I suppose some women want to fuck so that leaves the answer as "generally yes". If ape and horniness = tru.

Also SJP is prolly 5'3'' & "female".

[starkind]

Hot implies lustiness in the loins.

I'm personally nonplussed either way.

No desire to fuck. Or pretend to be inseminated. Wouldn't look away or be creeped out. Probably would allow her to fuck me or make an effort out of generosity, not that she needs it. If we were hanging out in a garden I'd probably spend most of my time looking at the horizon or sky. She's not repulsive.

Answer still stands in my individual case. Not hot. Moderately attractive. Not ugly. I'd be happy and not dysphoric if I looked like her, had her body.

Hot doesn't equate to attractiveness. However there is some overlap at the more attractive/ hot side of the spectrum. She's really not in either, just about maybe.

[Trexller]

"I'd hit that" is absolutely an objective answer, if the intent of rating "Hot or Not" is an attempt at assigning a value to the sex appeal rating of this woman.

Apes and horniness definitely = true, and should be the determining factor, as "sex appeal" is well, self explanatory and evolved to make the strongest mates stand out from the crowd of other less sexy (genetically inferior) apes.

If the question were: "Is Hilary Swank pretty like a flower"

The same opinion samples would reply, "nah bro"

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/xA6QZWP.jpg

You fed the punchcards into the machine. It printed it's output, tickertape. :p

[Trexller]

Hot implies lustiness in the loins.

Yes, exactly.

Therefore i will reinforce again that the solution to this equation is:

Body: Yes!
Face: Nah, bro

=

Hot Butterface

[starkind]

Just close your eyes. I used to during sex all the time. Nothing wrong with it.

[Trexller]

uhhh

So whalebiologist's cartoon is a rather profound statement about humanity's pursuit of understanding

[starkind]

"I'd hit that" is absolutely an objective answer, if the intent of rating "Hot or Not" is an attempt at assigning a value to the sex appeal rating of this woman.

Apes and horniness definitely = true, and should be the determining factor, as "sex appeal" is well, self explanatory and evolved to make the strongest mates stand out from the crowd of other less sexy (genetically inferior) apes.

If the question were: "Is Hilary Swank pretty like a flower"

The same opinion samples would reply, "nah bro"

Yeah, I'm in agreement. Add me to the consensus.

[starkind]

uhhh

So whalebiologist's cartoon is a rather profound statement about humanity's pursuit of understanding

He, she, it, or whatever is just calling me a brain eating machine probably.

[Whale biologist]

He, she, it, or whatever is just calling me a brain eating machine probably.

No, Starkind made a post roughly tangent to the philosophical zombie wankery. :p

I learned it on WoW, fwiw. Undead mage ftw!

[starkind]

If I were an undead mage I'd literally summon brains to eat them. Now picture the lil burnt bread icon in EQ and I certainly right clicked that icon many times in my main inventory so I wouldn't autoeat my halfling cookies.

[Trexller]

one zombie has an existential, philosophical revelation

the other zombie tells him to shut up, and pours hot sauce on his brains.

that's humanity in a nutshell.

[starkind]

For me both are often simultaneously true.

[Jibartik]

Horny males will likely fuck almost anything

IYe7mwZgG2Q

[Whale biologist]

IYe7mwZgG2Q

Liquid fueled piece of shit Soviet hoe :rolleyes:

[starkind]

I was wondering about all the black smoke, maybe inefficient combustion leads to higher performance thrust? Idk lol.

365kJOsFd3w

Irl space hobbits.

[unsunghero]

Even more questions now

are we rating her looks as if she were a flower in a meadow? or a woman in the red light district?

Kevin was right, "a painting can be beautiful, but i don't wanna bang a painting"

as far as humans rating other human's looks, the entire mechanism is designed to make males and females pair off and procreate.

Given Swank's definite physical health and prowess as a potential female breeding candidate, then the answer to this question across the board of breeding age human males is unequivocally:

"I'd Hit That"

Yeah we are GENERALLY hard-wired biologically to be attracted to what we perceive as the best possible candidate for birthing healthy children. This is why the ideal is someone taking care of themselves physically, as this is an indicator of overall health. There are always outliers, both personal and cultural. Personal is obvious, everyone has what they’re into which might be very gaunt or very big people or anything in between. And culturally for example I remember hearing in i believe Italian culture being an overweight man was an indicator that someone is doing well financially, and was historically seen as a status symbol

For women, they are generally hard-wired to be attracted to someone who can provide for and protect a future family. This is why (unfortunately for a lot of guys) height is such a big deal, and money can be as well because money is an indicator of stability and success. Once again this is just generalities, everyone has their own specific personal ideal, and these can be very different

And yeah I’d hit it with Hillary Swank, wouldn’t even need to be drunk

[Trexller]

IYe7mwZgG2Q

im alot more interested in russia's nuclear powered ramjet missle. (9M730 Burevestnik)

if true, it would be an actual global military strategy gamechanger, probably the biggest since the advent of nuclear weapons.

Unlimited range and hypersonic, it could fly around the world for years until assigned a target.

nobody's air defences can beat mach 20 yet, that we know of.

[starkind]

If you want to raise children finding a wholesome, honororable, rich man is a good thing, and I believe a good cultural standard... I'd definitely prefer that to some young guy with looks. Or "love". Though, I imagine it would be incredibly hard to not love a wholesome, honorable, rich man.

[Trexller]

Yeah we are GENERALLY hard-wired biologically to be attracted to what we perceive as the best possible candidate for birthing healthy children. This is why the ideal is someone taking care of themselves physically, as this is an indicator of overall health. There are always outliers, both personal and cultural. Personal is obvious, everyone has what they’re into which might be very gaunt or very big people or anything in between. And culturally for example I remember hearing in i believe Italian culture being an overweight man was an indicator that someone is doing well financially, and was historically seen as a status symbol

For women, they are generally hard-wired to be attracted to someone who can provide for and protect a future family. This is why (unfortunately for a lot of guys) height is such a big deal, and money can be as well because money is an indicator of stability and success. Once again this is just generalities, everyone has their own specific personal ideal, and these can be very different

And yeah I’d hit it with Hillary Swank, wouldn’t even need to be drunk

yeah bro, she's rich!

equality FTW.

[Jibartik]

I wonder if I, an addict and lover of everquest, would be happier in a world where we talked about everquest type things and we just herded goats.

[starkind]

im alot more interested in russia's nuclear powered ramjet missle. (9M730 Burevestnik)

if true, it would be an actual global military strategy gamechanger, probably the biggest since the advent of nuclear weapons.

Unlimited range and hypersonic, it could fly around the world for years until assigned a target.

nobody's air defences can beat mach 20 yet, that we know of.

Xray and infrared lazers are ez. Just expensive. Cheeper than nuclear missiles. Tho. They only protect rich ppl in rich ppl bunkers,, not downtown LA slums.. P.s. it's really old technology and they are super reliable and ez to target the government just wanted more money and the public to not realize it could instantly be vaporized from miles away before they could realize. I've seen these devices in action. They're not that big and single shot ones are about the size of small trucks now.

[starkind]

I'm probably a little biased because I don't want to contribute to producing a heartbeat.

[Whale biologist]

im alot more interested in russia's nuclear powered ramjet missle. (9M730 Burevestnik)

if true, it would be an actual global military strategy gamechanger, probably the biggest since the advent of nuclear weapons.

Unlimited range and hypersonic, it could fly around the world for years until assigned a target.

nobody's air defences can beat mach 20 yet, that we know of.

missiles can't swim and our tridents carry MIRV ordinance

not a gamechanger unless we don't have a deadman's hand(inshallah)

[starkind]

Pretty disappointed that the US sunk to deadmans hand territory. Also, the most likely point of failure in the whole system. Garanteed to eventually fail. Like everything does. Eventually.

[Trexller]

Xray and infrared lazers are ez. Just expensive. Cheeper than nuclear missiles. P.s. it's really old technology and they are super reliable and ez to target the government just wanted more money and the public to not realize it could instantly be vaporized from miles away before they could realize. I've seen these devices in action. They're not that big and single shot ones are about the size of small trucks now.

its not that the projectiles are too slow to intercept, AA defenses could in theory hit something going mach 20, the problem, even for laser weapons, is the time required from initial incoming warning, to target aquisition, to calculated firing solution, can usually be several minutes, 5, 10, maybe 30 -- all of this is no big deal for old ICBMs, they fly slow predictable paths.

The nuclear ramjet missle is reported to be able to alter course at hypersonic speeds, or just leave and come back from another angle, or just fly randomized patterns, or go to another target, if it detects tough air defenses.

toss in some A.I. computations to this platform and you built something that no one could ever defend against, in theory.

it just basically hits you before you can get your shit together.

edit: mentioning laser weapon development is insanely cheap, and firing the new one on the ford class carrier costs like .62 cents per, shot, compared to millions per missle

[Trexller]

missiles can't swim and our tridents carry MIRV ordinance

not a gamechanger unless we don't have a deadman's hand(inshallah)

Launched from 30 meters underwater, the trident does sort of swim to the surface where it engages its rockets.

Everybody has MIRVs, problem is these days that ICBM payloads are just guided gravity bombs, they don't move fast, the initial ascent stages from launches anywhere on earth are picked up by dozens of satellites.

If MIRVs should be dropped (they come from orbit), air defenses from standoff ranges can destroy them with relative ease. You can launch several ICBMs with dozens of dummy MIRVs, and the chances of hitting a target in a modern nation are slim to none these days.

the time of ICBM is over.

Hypersonic missle development is basically taking the best ideas from all "destroy a whole country" doctrines and putting them into one package.

of course, this is Russia's statement, so taken with a big grain of salt, but any real world proof of concept will make global defense budgets go skyward.

[starkind]

Yes. At this point the bottleneck becomes sensors compute power and communication speeds.

Maybe another interesting application for non locality.

Defense is often a poor or costly tactic. And even in a conventional war it's convenient to allow the enemy to spread out covering "useless territory ".

Thinking machines may play the next major conflicts for us with generals selecting from several scenarios.

I want to take the toys away and return humanity to the spear. Mostly Because I'm jealous of the really rich princess of the military industry who make all this stuff and have the access, permission to build, play with whatever technologies they want without any real oversight or transparency.

[unsunghero]

I wonder if I, an addict and lover of everquest, would be happier in a world where we talked about everquest type things and we just herded goats.

I dunno, I haven’t really studied it, but I personally believe that completely relationship-less lives are not quite as healthy as ones with relationships. Once again, it’s fighting our programming and evolutionary biology, as a species we survive by forming mated pairs and family units

Our brain reinforces it to us with oxytocin, a happy chemical produced when we feel an intimate touch. This is why FWB relationships are so hard for so many people. Because oxytocin is also a bonding chemical. It is there to reinforce that intimate touch good, bond good, this person good, to ensure the survival of our species. And the more frequently those people touch, generally the stronger the bond gets

This is why all of sudden strong emotions can start coming out in FWB relationships. Your brain is programmed to bond you

[Whale biologist]

If MIRVs should be dropped (they come from orbit), air defenses from standoff ranges can destroy them with relative ease.

https://i.imgur.com/FXLThSZ.jpg

[Jibartik]

I dunno, I haven’t really studied it, but I personally believe that completely relationship-less lives are not quite as healthy as ones with relationships. Once again, it’s fighting our programming and evolutionary biology, as a species we survive by forming mated pairs and family units

Our brain reinforces it to us with oxytocin, a happy chemical produced when we feel an intimate touch. This is why FWB relationships are so hard for so many people. Because oxytocin is also a bonding chemical. It is there to reinforce that intimate touch good, bond good, this person good, to ensure the survival of our species. And the more frequently those people touch, generally the stronger the bond gets

This is why all of sudden strong emotions can start coming out in FWB relationships. Your brain is programmed to bond you

I am sure 100 year future me would be like, how could you live without Xagyanlign.

[unsunghero]

I am sure 100 year future me would be like, how could you live without Xagyanlign.

Lol

This is also why professional “cuddlers” became a thing, especially in Asian countries. Even men, as crazy as it sounds, can be ok with not having sex but just cuddling. Obviously sex is always going to be better, but when people are enjoying cuddling what’s really happening is their brain is just getting high on its own oxytocin

And I wouldn’t recommend professional cuddling, unless you expect/don’t mind Molestation City

[starkind]

Close personal human relationships are weird and gross.

[Trexller]

https://i.imgur.com/FXLThSZ.jpg

look it up bro, MIRV's really are yesterday's news, even without nuclear ramjets

*sniffs the air*

theres a boomer around...

I wonder if I, an addict and lover of everquest, would be happier in a world where we talked about everquest type things and we just herded goats.

We have already had all of the everquest discussions possible, several times over and all variants.

Thats why the guilds just flame each other in RnF these days

I believe mutually assured destruction is really real.

Rest assured, M.A.D. will always be real.

Kinetic rods would be like 100 tons of tungsten each, we can barely put 5 tons of stuff in orbit per launch. They are yet sci fi, but they would be more effective than MIRVs, as their entry and strike points would not be easily predictable.

Yeah when your enemy can hit you at mach 20, attrition isnt a bad strategy, you mentioned old school weapons, someone on some side of that war would end up driving bombs in cars to cities.

Spears would revert society to the rule of the strongest, not the smartest, and neither of them ever lets you play with their cool toys, or in on their gov't contracts.

[starkind]

Yeah. I'm trying to not be personally really mad.

I want to know if I could put like thousands of tiny aerodynamic ceramic projectiles in orbit. Thats what I'd be doing if I was an evil supervillain.

[Trexller]

Lol

This is also why professional “cuddlers” became a thing, especially in Asian countries. Even men, as crazy as it sounds, can be ok with not having sex but just cuddling. Obviously sex is always going to be better, but when people are enjoying cuddling what’s really happening is their brain is just getting high on its own oxytocin

And I wouldn’t recommend professional cuddling, unless you expect/don’t mind Molestation City

not gonna lie, i am a cuddler, but you can cuddle anything, and i prefer to cuddle things that have sex with me.

hiring a professional cuddler, is like a new level of incel -- "I could pay someone to have sex with me, and then cuddle with me, but im just gonna cuddle" (im assuming these people charge alot for their service) although, if you choose not to pay for sex, or try to find a partner otherwise, wouldn't that make you voluntarily celibate? (VolCel)

c'mon bros get your dicks workin! I'm tired of hearing about the global emasculation of men.

unless, professional cuddler "more often than not" means prostitute, in which case I am happy to return your man card.

[Trexller]

Yeah. I'm trying to not be personally really mad.

I want to know if I could put like thousands of tiny aerodynamic ceramic projectiles in orbit. Thats what I'd be doing if I was an evil supervillain.

back before satellites were any good, the US govt launched roughly a billion needle sized metal shards into orbit to bounce radio signals off of

anything small-ish is gonna burn up upon re-entry tho, like the heat shield tiles work because its just one size of the tile being roasted on re-entry, and are constantly replaced on reusable vehicles

The thing about Evil supervillain plots on planet earth is that... if it's possible, someone has done or is doing it...

and then it circles back around to M.A.D.

[starkind]

I just have stuffed animals and a body pillow.

Anyway now I'm envisioning this system with manufacturing on the moon or capture and staging of smaller rocks. I mean. Thinking what it may take to get some smaller 1 mile sized asteroids in a pretty high orbit. I'm considering just a lot of time to tether some in gravitationally with some big heavy nuclear powered craft. Idk. I'd be trying to do it already.

Anyway id be manufacturing those projectiles so they could be moved in closer to their targets, maybe only finally targeted at just a few miles up. I feel like along with an autonomous drone army and some Boston dynamics robo bois thatd make for a pretty ruthless and evil force. About the only way around that one is burrowing deep and hiding.

[unsunghero]

I just have stuffed animals and a body pillow.


Yknow how those fedora wearing dudes have their Anime girl body pillows, props to this girl for showing how it would go in an alternate universe. His shirt even says M’lady :)

[Whale biologist]

look it up bro, MIRV's really are yesterday's news, even without nuclear ramjets

*sniffs the air*

theres a boomer around...



We have already had all of the everquest discussions possible, several times over and all variants.

Thats why the guilds just flame each other in RnF these days



Rest assured, M.A.D. will always be real.

Kinetic rods would be like 100 tons of tungsten each, we can barely put 5 tons of stuff in orbit per launch. They are yet sci fi, but they would be more effective than MIRVs, as their entry and strike points would not be easily predictable.

Yeah when your enemy can hit you at mach 20, attrition isnt a bad strategy, you mentioned old school weapons, someone on some side of that war would end up driving bombs in cars to cities.

Spears would revert society to the rule of the strongest, not the smartest, and neither of them ever lets you play with their cool toys, or in on their gov't contracts.

Hypersonic is mach 5 you keep saying mach 20 for some reason.

Fix your liturgy, ape.

[starkind]

Yknow how those fedora wearing dudes have their Anime girl body pillows, props to this girl for showing how it would go in an alternate universe. His shirt even says M’lady :)

Everything is possible :p

[Whale biologist]

Hypersonic is mach 5 you keep saying mach 20 for some reason.

Fix your liturgy, ape.

To wit:

As a spacecraft re-enters the earth's atmosphere, it is traveling very much faster than the speed of sound. Typical low earth orbit re-entry speeds are near 17,500 mph and the Mach number M is nearly twenty five, M < 25.

[Trexller]

I just have stuffed animals and a body pillow.

Anyway now I'm envisioning this system with manufacturing on the moon or capture and staging of smaller rocks. I mean. Thinking what it may take to get some smaller 1 mile sized asteroids in a pretty high orbit. I'm considering just a lot of time to tether some in gravitationally with some big heavy nuclear powered craft. Idk. I'd be trying to do it already.

Anyway id be manufacturing those projectiles so they could be moved in closer to their targets, maybe only finally targeted at just a few miles up. I feel like along with an autonomous drone army and some Boston dynamics robo bois thatd make for a pretty ruthless and evil force. About the only way around that one is burrowing deep and hiding.

make a smallish rocket, put it on a trajectory to some big space rock, deploy "lander rockets" which attack to the surface, and will thrust the big space rock to your desired target.

Everybody is gonna see it coming so get it going REALLY fast, Near Earth Objects are tracked as much as possible, and you can try to launch a nuke at it, but be prepared to be disappointed, without any air to pressurize, nuclear weapons have like .1% of their atmospheric damage radius, basically just the detonation point and then the bomb's own pressurized gasses disperse. Which is like instantaneous in space. Would be a wonderful spectacle to see in the sky tho.

Then after your enemy nuked your asteroid bomb, it will rain millions of rocks down on the entire planet, with no real way of knowing where they will impact.

and you circle back to M.A.D.

[Trexller]

Hypersonic is mach 5 you keep saying mach 20 for some reason.

Fix your liturgy, ape.

hypersonic is not a new thing, propeller driven aircraft could achieve hypersonic speeds on steep dives in the '50s.

hypersonic is a term describing anything that exceeds mach 5.

20 > 5

current "generic termed hypersonic missles" (i hope you like that term better) are purported to hit 15,000 mph

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number#Classification_of_Mach_regimes

genuinely hoping this helps

[Whale biologist]

hypersonic is not a new thing, propeller driven aircraft could achieve hypersonic speeds on steep dives in the '50s.

hypersonic is a term describing anything that exceeds mach 5.

20 > 5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number#Classification_of_Mach_regimes

genuinely hoping this helps

I already covered that. Reentry speeds are far above mach 5 and would easily crush the Chinooks you want us to be afraid of.

[starkind]

Cheeper mutually assured destruction is the way to go.

Cheeper, lower maintenance. More reliable. Longer term.

Then put all the insurance companies in jail.

The tech I keep wanting to design would just make killing individual people or small groups easier tho. Because warfare is about killing terrorists and outlaws now.

Imagine the entire somali pirate fleet and their villages and "palaces" getting wiped from orbit. In one single attack. I feel like thats just a question of money and effort at this point.

Squatters in DC... just blare a siren and pelt the area with small antipersonell munitions.

Your buddy epstien getting out of hand? Just take out the boats docked on his private island.

[Trexller]

I already covered that. Reentry speeds are far above mach 5 and would easily crush the Chinooks you want us to be afraid of.

Ohhh i got you, these days even the re-entry speed of MIRVs aren't enough, because the ICBM missle trajectories are very limited, and no MIRVs are known to have the ability to maneuver once deployed, so once launched (giant rocket, seen by satellites) we will know all of its likely entry points, and have fair advanced warning, a minimum of 30 minutes, up to hours of time to intercept the maximum of 10 warheads per ICBM

a short range launch from a submarine off the coast would have a better chance of hitting something, because its less time launch to impact, but still very visible.

the entire idea around "hypersonics" is to simply arrive faster than your enemy can calculate a firing solution to hit your missle.

[Whale biologist]

Ohhh i got you, these days even the re-entry speed of MIRVs aren't enough, because the ICBM missle trajectories are very limited, and no MIRVs are known to have the ability to maneuver once deployed, so once launched (giant rocket, seen by satellites) we will know all of its likely entry points, and have fair advanced warning, a minimum of 30 minutes, up to hours of time to intercept the maximum of 10 warheads per ICBM

a short range launch from a submarine off the coast would have a better chance of hitting something, because its less time launch to impact, but still very visible.

the entire idea around "hypersonics" is to simply arrive faster than your enemy can calculate a firing solution to hit your missle.

I think neither can be defended so the new missile is a bag of hot air. :)

/shrug

[Trexller]

based on what i read/watch the idea I get is something like this,

h00:m00 "Commander, we have detected an incoming projectile"

h00:m02 "Confirmed with X,Y,Z stations that we indeed have an incoming projectile"

h00:m03 "Projectile moving very fast, your orders Sir?"

h00:m05 "Relay instruction to alpha bravo charlie air defenses, intercept projectile at - BOOM!"

[starkind]

If the new missiles cheeper and requires less manpower to maintain its a win. Neither can be defended on a large scale tho. To sneak in close you can't go mach.

The whole point of point defense tho is its only defending a point. And is automated.. so its turned on and left on until "mission accomplished". No human interaction necessary at that point. I feel like u could pretty much track, and instantly destroy anything moving fast enough through atmo. Which will be easy for a point defense system to see. U can't be stealthy at mach speeds.



Lazers do exist and are producable and deployable in sufficient quantities. They can target and destroy normal ballistic shells midflight. This has been reliably done.

Between 910 and 1,070 m/s (3,000–3,500 ft/s)

It's likely that the missile specs may be overblown and puffed up some. So idk.

That's 5626.64 feet per second at mach 5 which imo can still be easily tracked via infrared and zapped.

So an area of like 50 square kilometers could plausibly be defended with classified weapons that "don't exist".

[Whale biologist]

If the new missiles cheeper and requires less manpower to maintain its a win. Neither can be defended on a large scale tho.

The whole point of point defense tho is its only defending a point. And is automated.. so its turned on and left on until "mission accomplished". No human interaction necessary at that point. I feel like u could pretty much track, and instantly destroy anything moving fast enough through atmo. Lazers do exist and are producable and deployable in sufficient quantities. They can target and destroy normal ballistic shells midflight.

Between 910 and 1,070 m/s (3,000–3,500 ft/s)

It's likely that the missile specs may be overblown and puffed up some. So idk.

That's 5626.64 feet per second at mach 5 which imo can still be easily tracked via infrared and zapped.

So an area of like 50 square kilometers could plausibly be defended with classified weapons that "don't exist".

Lasers destroy things through heat which isn't a good defense in short-yardage situations.

Send boba.

[starkind]

Really powerful ones only need a second or less to destabilize an already Really hot fast moving object tho probably :p

[Trexller]

short-yardage situations.

now you're talking about my one of my favorites! CIWS!

It reminds me of Battlestar Galactica's firing solution, even if its only one cannon, and galactica had like, a million.

Circling back to OP, apply A.I. to any of these systems, and that human element that takes minutes to hours to respond, reduces to seconds if you allow the A.I. to decide when to fire, and then its Skynet. :(:(

that attacker/defender pendulum really is gonna swing back and forth until we just destroy ourselves.

[Trexller]

Really powerful ones only need a second or less to destabilize an already Really hot fast moving object tho probably :p

True this, you just gotta increase the heat on the missle body which is already very hot due to air friction.

but you still gotta find it, and aim your system at it, and humans are slow :(:(

[starkind]

Computers and algorithms are fast. Who cares if you miss some, with good saturation. 5 million laser? vs 10 million rocket. ?

Probably only useful in scenarios were u just absolutely must defend a single high value target against all odds. Having one of those Probably means you're too centralized and suck. El presidente is probably bitchmade enough whoever it is tho.

Defense is still dumb.

Circle back to MAD

[Trexller]

*scratches head*

how do we actually win a first strike? i totally didn't just get a call from the DoD who said they are out of ideas.

[robayon]

*scratches head*

how do we actually win a first strike? i totally didn't just get a call from the DoD who said they are out of ideas.we all kill each other before some external enemy gets the chance to kill us