Red 2.0 rules discussion (not just PVP ruleset)

[Gustoo]

Lets discuss the ruleset with regards to everything outside of PVP (so not discussing item loot, level range, teams/no teams)

Specific areas to discuss

1. Loot rights
2. Play Nice Policy, and what that would mean? (LnS?)
3. Rogue pick pocket
4. Training
5. What other issues?

[Tradesonred]

Why not use the other thread? Thin ice here since i want to play on a new server but fat chances theyll actively be looking on the forum for feedback, might as well make it easy on us/them.

[Gustoo]

What other thread? Disappointed thread? That thread is for 1 sentence posts about disappointment not a discussion thread.

There are about 1000 threads discussing stuff about red 2.

This thread is for fun and was inspired by the discussion elsewhere on the forum about a guy who ninja looted a tunare's hair or something.

[Tradesonred]

This thread. I thought it was relatively constructive, considering where it was posted.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391244

[starkind]

1. Loot rights
Whoever clicks first, no corpses are locked, ever, for any amount of time, no /lists, /consent lets other loot you. Coin, plus anything in bags. Only one item tho. So if someone keeps their coin in stacks of emeralds, dots, or jasper, you can only grab 1 gem from the stack. If a sword is in bags and droppable, that's fair game too. Ninja looting is 1000% fair. No soandso looted messages.

Make all potions stack to 200, sow, invis, see invis, w/e, shamny made, and store bought (just add new potion items to replace the old) see my clicky change Below
2. Play Nice Policy, and what that would mean? (LnS?)
No. The only way players have to deal with douchebags in pvp is with pvp bind camping is legal, let the players sort it out not the GMs. /q and hit up an alt ya crybabies.
3. Rogue pickpocket.
Yes. On players
4. Training
Enabled, you don't deserve a camp if you can't run to the zone and back and snipe ur mob with pals, or help newbs learn 2 do this
5. What other issues?
No zone should be safe from pvp. Bankers shouldn't be safe. Not even with a lvl 1. Make all clicks have a minimum 2 seconds cast (no instas). Except pumice. Pumice should be insta. If someone wants to run and invis they should have to find a safe spot to click a 2 second cast.

Resist should be classic with like a maximum 95- 99% threshold.

Smaller melee hitboxes make jousting harder. This will also help casters.

Randomized pve loot, like mischief. No velious or skyshrine ever. Or if velious severely nerf endgame loot. So it's only like 1-5 points better than endgame kunark gear. So +31-5hp not +100 or whatever redic stats vulak loot has., exceptions, player made jewelry and anything classic, djarns rings for example.

Yellowtext is zonewide, if the killer and victim want to advertise their position or call for aid, they can use guild chat, ooc, or discord voluntarily.

Disable /who completely

[Tunabros]

no one in the history of everquest enjoyed the pvp

hope this helps

[Gustoo]

1. Loot rights
Whoever clicks first, no corpses are locked, ever, for any amount of time, no /lists, /consent lets other loot you. Coin, plus anything in bags. Only one item tho. So if someone keeps their coin in stacks of emeralds, dots, or jasper, you can only grab 1 gem from the stack. If a sword is in bags and droppable, that's fair game too. Ninja looting is 1000% fair. No soandso looted messages.

Make all potions stack to 200, sow, invis, see invis, w/e, shamny made, and store bought (just add new potion items to replace the old) see my clicky change Below
2. Play Nice Policy, and what that would mean? (LnS?)
No. The only way players have to deal with douchebags in pvp is with pvp bind camping is legal, let the players sort it out not the GMs. /q and hit up an alt ya crybabies.
3. Rogue pickpocket.
Yes. On players
4. Training
Enabled, you don't deserve a camp if you can't run to the zone and back and snipe ur mob with pals, or help newbs learn 2 do this
5. What other issues?
No zone should be safe from pvp. Bankers shouldn't be safe. Not even with a lvl 1. Make all clicks have a minimum 2 seconds cast (no instas). Except pumice. Pumice should be insta. If someone wants to run and invis they should have to find a safe spot to click a 2 second cast.

Resist should be classic with like a maximum 95- 99% threshold.

Smaller melee hitboxes make jousting harder. This will also help casters.

Randomized pve loot, like mischief. No velious or skyshrine ever. Or if velious severely nerf endgame loot. So it's only like 1-5 points better than endgame kunark gear. So +31-5hp not +100 or whatever redic stats vulak loot has., exceptions, player made jewelry and anything classic, djarns rings for example.

Yellowtext is zonewide, if the killer and victim want to advertise their position or call for aid, they can use guild chat, ooc, or discord voluntarily.

Disable /who completely

Great contribution it's great to imagine this server.

Considering red's history this seems like a decent solution. Maybe more stuff could be made droppable too.

I was going to suggest that anything multi questable be made droppable but having a rare quest component looted just to be destroyed and laughed at by an enemy might suck pretty bad if bag items are lootable.

Disable multi questing so people don't pharm no drop multi questable items in perpetuity and won't be allowed to loot components for quests they've already completed. Who cares if rots.

[Gustoo]

How should exploits like mobs clipped into walls and pathed badly intentionally be handled?

[starkind]

How should exploits like mobs clipped into walls and pathed badly intentionally be handled?

Hopefully those bugs can be fixed in some way? Like if a mob doesn't have agro it resets every 30 minutes? Or something. Idk. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's not a quick bugfix. Getting the staff involved everytime is going to result in sporadic enforcement and rules lawyering. Idk rly. Some way to fix these mobs would be nice.

Remove static zones? So that if no ones in them they repop when someone zones in, and limit it to one hours between repop. So the server won't pop a zone if people are actively in it.

With dragons, and other long cycle named, just have the server check if they've spawned within a certain time period and not repop dynamically? That's going to require a few lines of code. A database table. And some testing. If we are designing mischief rules nbd tho. Should take a week tops. If not doable in about a 16 hrs over the course of several days. That is a big time ask and I would volunteer, I'm dumb though :( would probably break something else accidentally.

[silverknight2003]

this thread is shit and full of shitters

[starkind]

Sleeper resetting the server 2 would be gr8

[Gustoo]

Yeah sleeper resetting server with some caveats would be cool I think. It does seem like it might become a race-to-wake just for the pride of being the team to wake and destroy the server.

But in the ideal world the nihilum of red 2.0 is defending the sleeper from would be upstart-awakeners that want to rob nihilum of their pixels.

But in real life I think with a sleeper-waking mechanic we wouldn't get any of those pixel hoarders which might be a problem. Based on my recent research it seems like is 85% of the p99 population is suffering from mild to acute pixel rot and might not spend time on a server unless their items were in some kinda permanent pixel lust vault.

[Tradesonred]

But in real life I think with a sleeper-waking mechanic we wouldn't get any of those pixel hoarders which might be a problem. Based on my recent research it seems like is 85% of the p99 population is suffering from mild to acute pixel rot and might not spend time on a server unless their items were in some kinda permanent pixel lust vault.

This is kind of remedied with "purple" being dumped on red. You could restart the server to 3.0 and the season turns, turns, turns.

[Gustoo]

Oh you dump it over to red 1.0?

But Going from cool ruleset red 2.0 to bad ruleset red 1.0 might suck but that is a good idea.

No matter what some way of turning more than every 10 years is a good idea.

[Shac]

Be logical about what Rogean might be thinking. As close to classic as possible, player made server resets sounds far fetched, but fun and good for the overall server; so expect it to not happen as the staff doesn't actually like fun.

What we can guess what they will probably be working:
- Players to be a low-level mob in the game.
- Any new severs will eventually merge into red.

[Tradesonred]

Be logical about what Rogean might be thinking. As close to classic as possible, player made server resets sounds far fetched, but fun and good for the overall server; so expect it to not happen as the staff doesn't actually like fun.

What we can guess what they will probably be working:
- Players to be a low-level mob in the game.
- Any new severs will eventually merge into red.

I sort of willed myself to stop being bitter about the staff treating us poorly (i can also understand them being bitter about the playerbase being chunky on the toxic side) but im also losing interest. If they dont want a new fucking server, or care that little about it (by not giving any news) to the point where im finding it hard to get any pump about the thing, might as well fuck off as they seem to want people to do sometimes.

Its classic-themed and im sort of fine with it. I wish somebody would mod the fuck out of EQ and leads to healthy pops but realistically this isnt happening.

We just need a reset. A let bygones be bygones reset and a server reset. All they got to do really is read the feedback we gave them in the last months, think about it for a week and have another go at a red server without repeating the mistakes that were made the first time around. Make it fun again.

If they do that, ill stick with my promise to be more positive and if they dont, its not that ill be negative, ill just lose interest. In like 2 months i got a beast comp and if they havent given any news itll just seal the deal about them treating their players poorly and ill probably post here in 5 years like oh lol this place, i 'member.

[Maiten]

CC Changes


Dispell - Remove buffs as normal. Replace with a 10 second "empty buff". Stops mass dispells.
Charm - If charming a summoned pet, root/stop the pet in it's tracks. Does not remove pet.
Snare/Slow - Movement and Attack Speed cannot go below a certain %.


Corpse Retrieval
Unpopular opinion, but we're in 2021. Priests of Discord can summon bodies.. but for a price. Unable to res for experience.
(Stops corpse camping, being trained, and eliminates the 1:3 time loss ratio)

Corpse Loot Rights
Stop trying to take everything from everyone. No coin or items.

Pickpocketing Rogues

Coin from players - Only Copper and Silver. Burden the weight of your actions.
Items - Tradeskill Mats only. Entire stack. Have fun farming bots!
NPC - Ensure Magic items cannot be pick pocketed.



Raids

Fully PVE - Guilds are able to use Raids as a time to gear up.
Timers - Lower the respawn time of Raid Boss and increase the Trash mob's.
PvP Exceptions - Make quakes last 3-7 days. Completely open to PvP. Raid targets are FFA.


Fun idea:
This was for my EQ Kingdoms game, but maybe you can create a timeline for the Raid Targets. Start from the earliest raids (lesser targets like Phini up to Dragons like Vox and Nagafen) and as guilds start clearing these targets, after a certain # of deaths the other Raid targets unlocks.

Eventually the early raid targets will stop respawning after a set # of deaths. Respawn on Quakes and GM Events.
GM Event: Spawn the Raid Boss in the previous zone (Vox -> Everfrost) and allow it to roam. Global yellow text will let players know who is up!
(These events will drop more loot than normal. Makes it worth while having waves of players join the server)

Of course... waking the sleeper will cause the dragons to roam Norrath (immortal) and destroy the world. No mobs can respawn after being killed.

A week or so of the dragons roaming, the server will reset.

Cheers!

[Maiten]

Can you imagine fighting:

Vox -> Everfrost

Nagafen -> Lavastorm

Phinigel -> Dagnor's Cauldron

Plane of Sky -> Commonlands

Plane of Hate/Fear -> Feerrott

[Maiten]

As far as social rules go:

Allow us to label Exiles, Spies, and Griefers. They've earned that badge.
(Yellow/Pink name tags)

Guilds should have a few groups of 4:

Gladiators: Warrior, Shadowknight, Paladin, or Ranger
(Crimson red name tag)

Medics: Clerics, Druids, or Shamans
(Blue name tag)

Magus: Mages, Wizards, Enchanters, or Necromancers
(Green name tag)

Scoundrels: Rogues, Bards, Rangers, or Monks
(Orange name tag)


Gladiators will fight for Tanking bragging rights.

Medics are allowed to live during mass PvP events to res fallen comrades.

Magus will fight for Wisdom bragging rights.

Scoundrels will just fight.

[starkind]

CC Changes


Dispell - Remove buffs as normal. Replace with a 10 second "empty buff". Stops mass dispells.
Charm - If charming a summoned pet, root/stop the pet in it's tracks. Does not remove pet.
Snare/Slow - Movement and Attack Speed cannot go below a certain %.


Corpse Retrieval
Unpopular opinion, but we're in 2021. Priests of Discord can summon bodies.. but for a price. Unable to res for experience.
(Stops corpse camping, being trained, and eliminates the 1:3 time loss ratio)

Corpse Loot Rights
Stop trying to take everything from everyone. No coin or items.

Pickpocketing Rogues

Coin from players - Only Copper and Silver. Burden the weight of your actions.
Items - Tradeskill Mats only. Entire stack. Have fun farming bots!
NPC - Ensure Magic items cannot be pick pocketed.



Raids

Fully PVE - Guilds are able to use Raids as a time to gear up.
Timers - Lower the respawn time of Raid Boss and increase the Trash mob's.
PvP Exceptions - Make quakes last 3-7 days. Completely open to PvP. Raid targets are FFA.


Fun idea:
This was for my EQ Kingdoms game, but maybe you can create a timeline for the Raid Targets. Start from the earliest raids (lesser targets like Phini up to Dragons like Vox and Nagafen) and as guilds start clearing these targets, after a certain # of deaths the other Raid targets unlocks.

Eventually the early raid targets will stop respawning after a set # of deaths. Respawn on Quakes and GM Events.
GM Event: Spawn the Raid Boss in the previous zone (Vox -> Everfrost) and allow it to roam. Global yellow text will let players know who is up!
(These events will drop more loot than normal. Makes it worth while having waves of players join the server)

Of course... waking the sleeper will cause the dragons to roam Norrath (immortal) and destroy the world. No mobs can respawn after being killed.

A week or so of the dragons roaming, the server will reset.

Cheers!
These are really great ideas too. Totally endorsed even though they oppose a lot of mine.

I would be very happy either way. I like the spell, dispell, PoD summon and quake changes the most.

Maybe rogues can pp platinum from players, it becomes gold, silver, copper in random amounts though. Would be fun to hang around banks or steal from guildies in small 10p ish amounts at a time this way :)

[Krazy/sickpuppy]

Lol stop with these fantasy threads

[starkind]

Threads about pvp servers on a pvp forum oh no!

[Tune]

ideas from people that last about 1 week on a pvp box

lets listen closely

[Maiten]

Not like your a dev Tune, just a player.

Insanity is a crazy thing. If Red 1.0 died, maybe you should change it.

Unless you want to keep battling the same people everyday for years and feel powerful destroying new players.
Quickest way to see that average population drop each week.

There has to be a balance. Otherwise the "I play EQ as a job" players will once again run the server to the ground.

[starkind]

Tune. I didn't need to be in your guild and still played here 7 years rly enjoyjoying every minute I logged in.

[Disease]

Tune. I didn't need to be in your guild and still played here 7 years rly enjoyjoying every minute I logged in.

Tune has a none sissy policy or I would've joined. To be honest, it was always my dream to start an all homosexual guild and take over red.

[Tune]

Tune. I didn't need to be in your guild and still played here 7 years rly enjoyjoying every minute I logged in.

and who are u

[A Knight]

Loot and scoot. I could play without loot and scoot. I could also play with Rallos zek rules. But mostly I'd rather have loot and scoot.

And whatever involves the less amount of GMs, I'm not sure why. Maybe so we can be a self sustaining cesspool, of not getting anyone to join our server.

[Disease]

Just take away global ooc. It was hard listening to the gay bashing at times.

[Maiten]

No anon. When you /who all you see is there level, class, and guild.

Could lead into more bounty hunts at different level ranges.

Don't ban accounts. Just put them all in the same guild, exile them to an instanced Plane of Hate or Sky (seperate them for extra salt in wounds) and mute them on all channels.

Let them farm their pixels and be amongst each other.
(Only let them go with the equipment/spells they have on)

[Gustoo]

Lol i like the idea of permabinding banned characters into instanced hell version of plane of hate lol

[Tradesonred]

Loot and scoot. I could play without loot and scoot. I could also play with Rallos zek rules. But mostly I'd rather have loot and scoot.

And whatever involves the less amount of GMs, I'm not sure why. Maybe so we can be a self sustaining cesspool, of not getting anyone to join our server.

You can do that with a game where your negative experiences dont dominate the experience as a whole because there are mechanics in place that remove the need for GM hand holding. If you let the worst aspects of red do what they want to do, you can bet it will happen. So if you let 3 persons take 8 hour shifts guarding a body till the one week or whatever limit passes before a corpse decays, it will probably happen.

Im all for the least hand holding possible, but i think theres a bare minimum where if you let it be, it will poison everything. A clear example was to let zergs inflict xp loss on randos and small guilds, which was arguably milder than someone CCing you for 6 hours straight or more. If that destroyed the pop (i dont have the numbers but im pretty sure it had a big effect on people quitting) imagine letting anyone corpse camp anyone as long as they want because they think its funny. It will not be pretty.

[A Knight]

Just take away global ooc. It was hard listening to the gay bashing at times.

I hear ya. People will care about things they shouldn't. Because the human brain is flawed. Also, we probably want to believe we are just our soul, and not our physical brain.

I think of it as we had to come from chaos. (Greek chaos. Or I think Greek chaos. Or my version of chaos.) A molten planet that had comets rain water and erupt water from the planet. Then minerals in the water, using electricity from lightning, made the first compounds of life. Then Egyptians, Greeks, Industrial revolution, Cold war technology. So I view it, we either had to come from chaos to believe we are real or not, and that's where the dicks come from.

I tried to keep it short to not attract attention, on a post that probably wasn't asking for a response.

I could live or live without /ooc. World might feel more empty though without it.

Added later: Hope I didn't get too off topic.

[starkind]

and who are u

A princes :D

Starwind
Miria
Azure
Vari
Tuvasu
Aurielanath
Lillia
Veris
Veri

like a bunch of others

anyway i influenced this server more than u just by being a nice person lawl

[Tassador]

Isn’t miria the person that sells vendor trash on the auctions with the wood elf avatar?

[starkind]

i gave miria 2 that person

[Disease]

A princes :D

Starwind
Miria
Azure
Vari
Tuvasu
Aurielanath
Lillia
Veris
Veri

like a bunch of others

anyway i influenced this server more than u just by being a nice person lawl

Holy shit you're Miria? You ever turn your step dad in?

[Tune]

A princes :D

Starwind
Miria
Azure
Vari
Tuvasu
Aurielanath
Lillia
Veris
Veri

like a bunch of others

anyway i influenced this server more than u just by being a nice person lawl

do u even have a 60 or know what all your spells / abilities do for 1 class?

[starkind]

Of course I do.

Also being lvl 60 is like 6 levels u can't pvp lol.

[Maiten]

A vendor npc that has a static price for "all items".

You can sell items and someone can buy it for the same price. Pretty much a bartar/bazaar system.

Calculating and maintaining it would be tedious work.

Min - Max Plat/hour (Slowest to Fastest Plat farming classes)
Find average for every 10 levels. (Based on skills/spells of classes and camps they can handle)

Average time to farm item.
(Based on camp zone level, npc respawn time, and drop %)

Age of the server.
(In time, prices will lower)

Certain zones could be known for specific items.
EC can be the tradeskill items.
Butcherblock docks can be twink items.
Freeport can be Classic Raid items.
FV/OT can be higher tier items

[Darlore]

My only request/requirement is Kelethin becomes the official banking city of the server. Non-negotiable.

[A Knight]

My only request/requirement is Kelethin becomes the official banking city of the server. Non-negotiable.

Roll an Ogre just to get good faction, then block bank door.

[Gustoo]

My only request/requirement is Kelethin becomes the official banking city of the server. Non-negotiable.

I hope so.

It was so freaking majestic being in the vast greater faydark woods with all sorts of different people cruising through going about their business.

Wizards have spires right there, druids have rings a zone away and its easy to faction up. Definitely the peak of gaming.

[A Knight]

Yea Gfay bank was a better trade zone than EC. I wouldn't never miss EC tunnel, but EC tunnel is very plain and boring.

[Maiten]

Honestly... bin everything and just make canoes travel at max selo speed!

[silverknight2003]

5 pages of bluebie retardation fuck off and get in line for a ring 8

[New_Guy]

Lets discuss the ruleset with regards to everything outside of PVP (so not discussing item loot, level range, teams/no teams)

Specific areas to discuss

1. Loot rights
2. Play Nice Policy, and what that would mean? (LnS?)
3. Rogue pick pocket
4. Training
5. What other issues?

Can people still handle loot stealing? I can't even think of game that had this after everquest.

[New_Guy]

How should exploits like mobs clipped into walls and pathed badly intentionally be handled?

You either wanna go full Rallos or you don't, OG Rallos rules, anything goes. Corpsecamping, bindcamping, and training only became a thing after the waterfall of tears.

And do you really want rules, HERE! lol you know what is really gonna happen, this side is gonna lie, while that side tells it's own lies and people are gonna devolve into a GM bitchfest of trying to get the other banned to pull them out of competing raid rotation.

Never try to get between a blue and their shekels.

[Gustoo]

I think that was Sullon that attempted no GM involvement for rules and carried on that way for some time. I get the point though.

We have fraps, enforcement doesn’t have to be impossible.

I’ll take it however they make it though.

I’m hoping for some official p99 polls about this stuff for 2.0 I don’t see why not.

At least some active discussions. Dreaming.

[New_Guy]

I think that was Sullon that attempted no GM involvement for rules and carried on that way for some time. I get the point though.

We have fraps, enforcement doesn’t have to be impossible.

I’ll take it however they make it though.

I’m hoping for some official p99 polls about this stuff for 2.0 I don’t see why not.

At least some active discussions. Dreaming.

People here are really too immature for rules, last time they tried putting a buncha rules into place on Red, Lite and Nizzar descended into report games.

Literally none of the rules actually got enforced, it became about who got the best doctored or one sided shots of the action and who reported who first.

And then the punishments varied wildly from person to person, one guy might get banned for a month another guy an hour.

On Sullon the only rule they enforced was no showeq use, here you will find a bunch of people using showeq and for some reason there never seems to be enough evidence to catch them.

Good luck getting impartial rulings here.

[starkind]

kill stealing and training need to be legal

hacking not legal

pnp - not enforced play an alt

otherwise u just wind up with childrens

[New_Guy]

kill stealing and training need to be legal

hacking not legal

pnp - not enforced play an alt

otherwise u just wind up with childrens

Straight up real talk. They do not have enough GM's to enforce the man children of this server. So GM's will get flooded with baby bullshit all day, get pissed off and dole out too harsh a punishment on someone annoying and too weak a punishment on a vile ass kisser who is breaking every rule.

You will come to regret any rule they put in place, as you will find yourself victimized by false reporters.

I've seen naked guys rush players just to fake a corpsecamping charge, this place is the land that morals forgot and do not under-estimate these bitter troglodytes pettiness.