A tale of Green's opening and a request

[AenorVZ]

I'm looking for people to help me test out some PvP mechanics. Please send me a friend add at AenorVZ#0037 on Discord if you'd be interested in helping out. I had a thread for free banded on Day 1 on Green. Here's the story of how it took me until Day 3.

Prior to the launch of Green there was a lot of theory questing on the forums about what the best opening leveling strategy was. I was also recruited by the leader of Kingdom who told me he liked my concept of trying to level up a master smith to make banded at cost on Day 1 of a brand new server.

But there were a lot of haters. Some accused me of running a scheme to try to get others to pay for my blacksmithing skill ups so I could corner the market and get rich in game (lol). In retrospect, the haters were idiots. I knew I could make hundreds of plat within 24 hours of Green launch, and I did. I had the cash to master blacksmithing on Day 1 but didn't do it until Day 3 because my focus shifted.

On the Green Achievements page, Coalena was the first level 10 on the server a full five hours ahead of Leknaat, the second level 10 server wide announcement. Coalena was not a main. This was a mage that was specifically created to assist me with farming plat for Day 1 banded. But a funny thing happened. I tested my opening strategies on Green beta and almost all of the quests I planned to use got nerfed. Some quests that were live in beta were nerfed and useless as people logged into Green on launch day.

https://www.project1999.com/achievements.php

The devs appeared to be tracking what Coalena and I (Kaneh) were doing and in some cases live nerfing my strats. Galach came by and waved. But they didn't nerf everything. The plat and the levels started rolling in and we realized we were way out ahead of the rest of the server. I shifted into a support role of Coalena and paused my own leveling to make a trip to Erudin to pick up spells. Using the plat for spells delayed getting started on blacksmithing.

For launch, the devs doubled the spawn rate so that mobs wouldn't be too hard to come by with the entire server population crammed into a few zones. Another unannounced nerf severely inhibited my plans for getting the mages to level 16. Within minutes of Coalena's server-wide level 10 announcement, people started complaining in OOC that the spawn rate of mobs had been nerfed. Apparently the devs created a script so that as soon as the first player dinged level 10, the accelerated spawn rate would be removed and normal spawn rates would return.

We easily got to 12 and got our new pets but this changed our plans. Our easy path to 16 was taken away and we had to start making new plans on the fly. We decided to try Slaythe in Misty Thicket, a level 20 mob you can infinitely spawn if you charm the quest NPC. I didn't get a chance to test Slaythe in beta so I don't know if the exp was specifically nerfed for Green launch or if it was always that bad.

Unfortunately we stuck with it for too long and soon other players in standard leveling zones were flying past us. Meanwhile I was dealing with multiple distractions. The process of skilling up the master smith was under way and I was running around tagging Kingdom members as a temporary officer.

The smith reached master on Day 3 and I started doing combines. Nobody other than Coalena and Seloer contributed to the skill ups. To this day I have never accepted payment or made any profit on Green from smithing. Any plat that has been donated has gone into the pool Silveron has for making banded for the next new player that asks.

Anyway, with Green approaching its end-stage state, I'm still hopeful that Rogean and Nilbog's plans for a teams PvP server will happen. To let them know that the player base is still interested in such a server I'd like to run a PvP event simulating the opening of a new teams PvP server. There's some prep work that needs to be done and if you would be willing to help out, please contact me at AenorVZ#0037 on Discord.

[Airyth]

I don't think you'll ever recapture what was on VZ, GL with that.

[Gustoo]

I don't use discord but am willing to contribute to your PvP event with my attendance assuming it takes place on a p99 server.

Thanks for the interesting post.

I also noted the main things that came out of beta red 99 were nerfs rather than requested changes and experimentation with rules and balance and stuff =/

[walfreyydo]

I played on Tallon Zek. Teams PVP was really fun but suffered from a couple flaws.

Even though it was teams based, the server stratified basically into light races vs dark races. What inevitably happened is that the light races, due to having druids and bards (mainly bards due to stacking mana regen and haste), were able to progress PVE faster than the dark races.

All the other issues aside, like OOR healers and such, what really broke the server is when the guild Pandemonium decided they were going to totally ignore the teams pvp concept and just go full PVE, all races under the same guild tag. Due to skill and numbers, they came to dominate the server, bolstered by their progression advantage (gear), OOR heals and the like.

What followed is the realization by the other guilds that in order to compete, they too, would have to abandon the "teams" ruleset.

All that said, I would love to have a teams pvp server, and would likely roll there. I have very very fond memories of EQ pvp on Tallon Zek (however unbalanced it can be). However, major issues do need to be addressed based on the above experiencs. A classic "teams" server will not work, some of the classic elements will need to be addressed around oor healing, and other pvp balance issues, covered in many past posts (and likely already addressed on Red, from the little I know). A guild vs guild concept would likely work best.

[Grimmway]

The Pandas were a tough guild, indeed.

It's been so long. Did Sullon Zek come after TZ?

I played on both, chars in a variety of guilds.. Guildwars against KotWR and Panda. Good times, indeed.

<TZ/SZ name protected for the innocent>

[Gustoo]

I played on Tallon Zek. Teams PVP was really fun but suffered from a couple flaws.

Even though it was teams based, the server stratified basically into light races vs dark races. What inevitably happened is that the light races, due to having druids and bards (mainly bards due to stacking mana regen and haste), were able to progress PVE faster than the dark races.

All the other issues aside, like OOR healers and such, what really broke the server is when the guild Pandemonium decided they were going to totally ignore the teams pvp concept and just go full PVE, all races under the same guild tag. Due to skill and numbers, they came to dominate the server, bolstered by their progression advantage (gear), OOR heals and the like.

What followed is the realization by the other guilds that in order to compete, they too, would have to abandon the "teams" ruleset.

All that said, I would love to have a teams pvp server, and would likely roll there. I have very very fond memories of EQ pvp on Tallon Zek (however unbalanced it can be). However, major issues do need to be addressed based on the above experiencs. A classic "teams" server will not work, some of the classic elements will need to be addressed around oor healing, and other pvp balance issues, covered in many past posts (and likely already addressed on Red, from the little I know). A guild vs guild concept would likely work best.

Indeed - So far it seems like everyone acknowledges that Rallos was the best server on live, and a teams server would probably have some custom. Sullon Style hard coded teams would be OK, but the 3 teams on sullon didn't work that well in the end so a two teams option was considered (east vs west) as proposed by nilbog, which I think is a great idea.

So I think either classic live rallos rules, or custom hard coded 2 teams would be fun.

Guilds wouldn't be allowed to X team on this server I don't think but we will have the problem of infinite account creation so people can X team by having more than 1 character. Not much to do to avoid that, that I know of.

[Gustoo]

The Pandas were a tough guild, indeed.

It's been so long. Did Sullon Zek come after TZ?

I played on both, chars in a variety of guilds.. Guildwars against KotWR and Panda. Good times, indeed.

<TZ/SZ name protected for the innocent>

Sullon was the last live pvp server to launch by a long shot, came much after RZ VZ TZ

Not counting discord server.

[ScottBerta]

Rallos.Zek here.

[One Tin Soldier]

I seriously doubt that they will ever open a new PvP server but if they did I would come back for that. If they are actually considering it I have a few suggestions.

Limit it to vanilla only. Opening Kunark would only create more problems for a PvP server so just leave it at vanilla forever.

Put in some method of earning money, points, or something through PvP kills which can then be spent to buy high end items. A big part of the problem with EQ PvP is that there is no real motivation to do it. Also, the PvE endgame will inevitably warp and destroy the fun of a PvP server. But if people could earn their progression by doing PvP it might work out a lot better.

I don't know how many people remember this but with the Sullon Zek server they originally planned to have a way of earning <something> for each PvP kill which could then be redeemed for rewards but it was never implemented.

[Gustoo]

I think item loot helps with what you describe One Tin.

I agree about Vanilla it's the best all around, I haven't even ventured to hope on a server that doesn't go to velious.

[jolanar]

I played on Tallon Zek. Teams PVP was really fun but suffered from a couple flaws.

Even though it was teams based, the server stratified basically into light races vs dark races. What inevitably happened is that the light races, due to having druids and bards (mainly bards due to stacking mana regen and haste), were able to progress PVE faster than the dark races.

All the other issues aside, like OOR healers and such, what really broke the server is when the guild Pandemonium decided they were going to totally ignore the teams pvp concept and just go full PVE, all races under the same guild tag. Due to skill and numbers, they came to dominate the server, bolstered by their progression advantage (gear), OOR heals and the like.

What followed is the realization by the other guilds that in order to compete, they too, would have to abandon the "teams" ruleset.

All that said, I would love to have a teams pvp server, and would likely roll there. I have very very fond memories of EQ pvp on Tallon Zek (however unbalanced it can be). However, major issues do need to be addressed based on the above experiencs. A classic "teams" server will not work, some of the classic elements will need to be addressed around oor healing, and other pvp balance issues, covered in many past posts (and likely already addressed on Red, from the little I know). A guild vs guild concept would likely work best.

I played on TZ also and this was a pretty good summary. Although I would add that the reason it quickly turned into light vs dark teams was because the dark races were overwhelmingly dominate early on. Not just in numbers but skill. Just like in WoW where all the pvpers roll horde, the best pvpers rolled evil races.

So you could hard code no cross teaming, but all that would happen is one team would just dominate the others.

I will say that having a teams server was the most roleplay like gameplay I've ever had in an mmo.

I would never play on another PvP EQ server though unless some serious balancing to PvP was done, or maybe they just got rid of corpse runs entirely when killed by a pvp opponent.

[Gustoo]

What we have is a loot and scoot policy so people are allowed to get their dead bodies unhindered. If they choose to violate the loot and scoot policy (do not scoot) then I think they're open to permanent corpse camping forever. Not sure what actual rules are but that seems fair.

You will like the new project 1999 pvp server for sure.

[jolanar]

What we have is a loot and scoot policy so people are allowed to get their dead bodies unhindered. If they choose to violate the loot and scoot policy (do not scoot) then I think they're open to permanent corpse camping forever. Not sure what actual rules are but that seems fair.

You will like the new project 1999 pvp server for sure.

It's not that, it's just I like to play melee and having to travel across continents to get my corpse on a pvp server without PoK... no thanks. I don't have that kind of time and patience anymore.

[One Tin Soldier]

I think item loot helps with what you describe One Tin.

I agree about Vanilla it's the best all around, I haven't even ventured to hope on a server that doesn't go to velious.

You're right, item loot would help. But it would really only help with the issues I'm thinking of if ALL items are lootable. No no-drop stuff. Ok, maybe epics could remain no-drop but even that seems wrong to me. If you use a item in PvP it should be lootable. If you don't want to risk losing it then leave it in the bank.

The thing is, I think most people would scream bloody murder at this idea so the alternative is what I suggested before.

On a different topic; Walfreydo said he thinks a guild versus guild server would work best. I disagree. Isn't that essentially what the existing red server is? Anyway, I would prefer hardcoded teams.

By the way, I played on Tallon Zek way back when also. I was a dwarf in <The Giants Army>. Then I went to a blue server for a long time because some real life friends refused to play on a PvP server. Then I went back for a while untill it went to crap. Then later I played on Sullon Zek.

[AenorVZ]

I will say that having a teams server was the most roleplay like gameplay I've ever had in an mmo.

Hammer, meet nail. This is why the Teams PvP server should be called Purple. We already have Blue (PvE) and Red (PvP). If you hand in your book your name turns red. If you type /roleplay your name turns purple. Back in the day there was a message board at EQRP.com where we discussed our ideal ruleset on live to encourage roleplay. The general consensus was that roleplay isn't possible without PvP, but the PvP has to have context. There has to be a reason for the conflict.

Tallon and Vallon Zek provided that context. There was a war among the races. The combination of having an in-character reason to fight and having relatively safe starting areas (compared to Rallos Zek) made these two servers the best RPG experience I've ever had. I ran a roleplaying PvP guild on Vallon. We sought out PvP every time we logged in but we always stayed in character. Longtime P99 lead GM Sirken participated in one of our server wide events and he always raved about how unique an experience Vallon Zek was.

Secrets, a long time contributor to EQEmu, was recently interviewed by Everquest developer ALovingRobot for his YouTube channel. He mentioned how he stopped trying to develop PvP servers and one of the biggest complaints he got from players was how hard it was to make it out of the starting areas. The teams concept I've developed over years addresses this in a way that I think is better than Tallon/Vallon, Sullon or Rallos. I'm not ready to reveal the secret sauce just yet. Still need some help getting set up first.

[Ananka]

Getting ganked at your home city does indeed happen on Red. My newbie monk didn't even zone out of North Qeynos before I left the server. I spent more time rooted then not. Getting corpse camped and re-rooted at level 2 or 3 had me leaving for the safe shores of the Care bear servers.

[s71ck]

When Green is recycled in a couple years, I think it'd be ideal to implement a new Purple server then, instead of a Green 2.0.

[cd288]

With all due respect, I'm kind of confused. What does the smithing story have to do with a PvP server? lol

[Castle2.0]

1) Immy healers ruined PvP
2) Will there be true classic Red Wood Wands? Asking for a friend.

[AenorVZ]

Getting ganked at your home city does indeed happen on Red. My newbie monk didn't even zone out of North Qeynos before I left the server. I spent more time rooted then not. Getting corpse camped and re-rooted at level 2 or 3 had me leaving for the safe shores of the Care bear servers.

This was similar to the experience I had on Rallos Zek in 1999. I wasn't in beta and didn't learn about the game till after launch so this is what it was like. Being on Vallon Zek on launch day was amazing and I'm sure it was better months later because if someone was camping noobs you usually had teammates around. I have a solution for this that doesn't introduce any non-classic elements that I'm hoping to test in the near future.

With all due respect, I'm kind of confused. What does the smithing story have to do with a PvP server? lol

Everything I've done on Blue and Green has been prep for the teams PvP server the P99 devs announced their intention to launch a few years back. I take Rogean at his word that that's his intention and I trust if his intentions changed he would let us know. Thus I was just hoping to reconnect with a few of the players I've helped get started on p99 to test a few ideas.

[Imago]

I would go super hard on a Teams PVP server, and I can say with some confidence that there are at least 100+ Red99 Vets that would come back for a Purple server.

Keep it in the Classic Era. Hard code the teams. Let the playerbase handle the rest of it.