Damage shield dps analysis: Magician

[Snaggles]

I have a 60 mage I sometimes bring when a dps is needed. A focused water pet is actually pretty solid for this 1-2 group stuff doing mid 40’s to mid 50’s dps if a max summon and positioned well but I was curious how a DS adds to the dps. Granted the effect isn’t cumulative but when I’m tanking I’m always shocked how seldom I have a caster DS on me besides my 9pt Ragefire arms and Ring 8 (mages are scarce and druids seem rare to DS the tank, in my experience). Plus there are some situations you can know for a fact if you will be the only DS class there and can directly attribute this in considering the choice of which character to bring.

This is from a few tanking logs for my 60 pally. It’s how many hits I took once engaging the npc and I had full aggro lock for the duration of the fight. It’s obviously not scientific law but basically shows the what-if of using a max mage DS (-1 if a Druid) and a shaman DS potion at level 60.

brother Zephyl (level 61)- quad attack mob
112 hits in 85 seconds
Hits per second: 1.31
33pt DS: 43.2dps
64pt DS: 83.84dps

A Kromzek Captain (level 58)- double attack mob unslowed
38 hits in 58 seconds (approx…compared a few parses)
Hits per second .48-.58 (depending on parse)
33pt DS: 15.84-19.14dps
64pt DS: 30.72-38.28dps

plasmatic priest (level 55) double attack mob unslowed (caster)
89 hits unslowed 341 seconds
Hits per second: .26
33pt DS: 8.58dps
64pt DS: 16.64dps

Sir Lucan (level 48), double attack mob and slowed 75%
23 hits 160 seconds
Hits per second: .14
33pt DS: 4.62dps
64pt DS: 8.96dps

I’m not sure if some npcs attack quicker besides those hasted by a local friendly npc. I expect running evasive and with natural skill caps a warrior of substantial gear would take less hits thus less damage shield dps (or a knight with better gear than I have plus some luck). That said, this probably represents a fairly wide range of encounters.

A slowed Lucan seems to hit one quarter as much as the Kromzek Captain so the math on Turgurs at 75% reduction all but lines up. Interesting enough a frequent casting npc like the Plasmatic Priest with long cast times (CH attempts) has a melee rate almost on par with being slowed.

Damage shields obviously do not scale like slow but do add a noticeable amount of kill speed. Not every tank will have ragefire arms and even a ranger can do a 17pt DS (21 with call of earth). With all the scout rolls I’ve attended I can’t recall being DS’ed more than a few times and rangers are always there. While 12.18dps doest seem like much it’s certainly something so if you can DS the tank you might as well. It’s up to another quarter of the average ranger’s dps and up to half of a mage pet so definitely worth taking up a gem slot.

[loramin]

Nice data.

[Allishia]

Damage shields are huge dps...I top vindi parse if you count dmg shield /nod. Can stack it really high with dmg shield potion + mage + bard and I'm pretty sure bards push it even further if they use pure tone.

As a tank you should be bugging everyone for buffs you need

[Naethyn]

I’ve been fighting for damage shields for a long time. My biggest gripe is on raids with cleric groups demanding every available bard, instead of giving one bard to the tank group. Here is some rough math I’ve come up with to prove how little bards do for clerics in a dragon fight. For things unslowable it’s not even close, the bard will do 3 rogues of dps.

Bard produces 20 mana a tick.
20 mana a tick = 200 mana per minute
Complete heal = 350 mana
17.5 bard ticks = 1 Complete Heal
10 minute fight = 2000 mana
5 complete heals
7 minutes = 1,400 mana
1,400 mana / 350 = 4 CH
5 clerics * 4 CH = 20 CH per 7 minutes

Bard produces 61 damage shield.

[Allishia]

I’ve been fighting for damage shields for a long time. My biggest gripe is on raids with cleric groups demanding every available bard, instead of giving one bard to the tank group. Here is some rough math I’ve come up with to prove how little bards do for clerics in a dragon fight. For things unslowable it’s not even close, the bard will do 3 rogues of dps.

Bard produces 20 mana a tick.
20 mana a tick = 200 mana per minute
Complete heal = 350 mana
17.5 bard ticks = 1 Complete Heal
10 minute fight = 2000 mana
5 complete heals
7 minutes = 1,400 mana
1,400 mana / 350 = 4 CH
5 clerics * 4 CH = 20 CH per 7 minutes

Bard produces 61 damage shield.

Yes, all epic bards to tank group please :)

[Snaggles]

Thanks for the info Naethyn!

I don't raid a cleric so don't know how close it gets; with like 15 clerics it seems you can keep that chain going a very long time regardless. Killing quicker reduces chances for unlucky RNG to happen. Less heal chain blips from tired players, less tank changes (often with only a few to spare) etc.

If on my mage I try to hit each warrior with a DS right before we start up but have never been asked for one. Probably a good thing. Hopefully people think like you do regarding this.

The main drive of this was some of the "are mages good in group?" talk. The pet plus the DS is massive dpm over the course of a grind. Throw in the ability to burn down stuff with 130+ dps as needed anyone who isn't a complete slacker should be welcomed aboard.

[loramin]

For those looking to max damage shields, check out the wiki page on Buff Lines (Damage Shield Stacking) (https://wiki.project1999.com/Buff_Lines#Damage_Shield_Stacking).

[Jimjam]

This thread proves rangers are best tank as they take the most hits, therefore do most DS DPS, which in turn reduces fight length.

[Naethyn]

I find it interesting that the best mage ds is only 2 points better than the druid.

[Naethyn]

Yes, all epic bards to tank group please :)

Agree! So many times raiding here the clerics relent and give up some trash bard who can play mana song as well as a top tier epic bard who is kept on mana duty.

[Blingy]

I find it interesting that the best mage ds is only 2 points better than the druid.

Also keep in mind our DS has a fire resist component to it. Top ones provide a 25 point FR bump.

[Zuranthium]

My biggest gripe is on raids with cleric groups demanding every available bard, instead of giving one bard to the tank group. Here is some rough math I’ve come up with to prove how little bards do for clerics in a dragon fight. For things unslowable it’s not even close, the bard will do 3 rogues of dps.

Bard produces 20 mana a tick.
20 mana a tick = 200 mana per minute
Complete heal = 350 mana
17.5 bard ticks = 1 Complete Heal
10 minute fight = 2000 mana
5 complete heals
7 minutes = 1,400 mana
1,400 mana / 350 = 4 CH
5 clerics * 4 CH = 20 CH per 7 minutes

Bard produces 61 damage shield.

Not quite accurate. An optimally played Bard (has an epic) should be able to produce 22 mana a tick for the party, and the damage shield amount should be 65 if a max brass instrument is swapped in over the epic for 1 of those damage shields (otherwise the damage shield amount should be 60).

Going by the initial numbers given in the thread, a 65 damage shield vs an unslowed quadding level 61 NPC would be 85 DPS. That might be a bit lower than vs the hardest raid targets, since they are higher level and will miss a bit less, but in a raid the tank will be a Warrior using Evasive discipline for half of the fight, so let's say this number is 75 DPS. 75 DPS is not 3 Rogues. That said, one of those Bard damage shields also gives +ATK, which is a variable amount of extra DPS being generated, and the Bard can also twist in an AC song, giving the tank a bit more safety.

There's also the Puretone discipline to consider though. I think the damage shield amount increases to 94 with that, while the mana-pump should be able to give 31 mana per tick (the discpline lasts 4 minutes). If the tank uses the defensive discipline rather than evasive while the bard has Puretone up, then for those 3 minutes the Bard could be doing 123 DPS with damage shields.

So, against unslowable raid targets that are also hard to hit in melee, the Bard could definitely be more useful for DPS than as a mana-pump for the Clerics. I think you'd really have to calculate it further based on the exact DPS vs Cleric composition at the raid, and how long the fight is expected to go. Are people really going to do that? Probably not. What I would say though, is that if you have an extra Bard who isn't with a full group of 5 Clerics, then vs unslowable targets it might be an easy bet that they are better off doing damage shield.

One other note: mana-pumping a group of 5 Wizards for 8 minutes when they can use the Dragonbane nuke would result in the Bard adding 100 DPS to the raid, whereas the damage shield amount in that span of time would average to about 95 DPS. Maybe the extra bit of +ATK from one of those damage shield songs would bring that Bard up to 100 DPS contribution as well.

[Snaggles]

Yea my numbers are relative to how many hits I received in that specific parse, its very anecdotal. I had a number of Kromzek Captain/Scout tanking examples and they varied a bit. I haven’t tanked many unslowable quad hitters besides that one Brother Zephyl and a flurry drake pickup out of desperation. But I’m a mid 5k 1250 AC paladin with raid buffs at 60.

Some of these MT warriors can check their own parses for how many hits/second they were taking on say an Vyemm, Tunare, AoW and so-on. I speculate they are seeing more than 1.3hits a second (averaged) due to the level gap and sometimes using defensive instead of evasive. Really just guessing though.

[Snaggles]

Ok a bit groggy here, sorry lol.

I read unhasted NPC’s melee at 30 delay (3sec) from an enchanter guide. If true it backs up the wiki note on BroZ doing consistent quad attacks with an occasional kick. 1.3x3 = 3.9 attacks per round.

So evasive disc and some weird edge cases aside, 1.3/second seems a fair estimate for such a npc.

[Ligma]

Bard should be able to stack lava diamond with mage DS in classic

[Allishia]

Yea my numbers are relative to how many hits I received in that specific parse, its very anecdotal. I had a number of Kromzek Captain/Scout tanking examples and they varied a bit. I haven’t tanked many unslowable quad hitters besides that one Brother Zephyl and a flurry drake pickup out of desperation. But I’m a mid 5k 1250 AC paladin with raid buffs at 60.

Some of these MT warriors can check their own parses for how many hits/second they were taking on say an Vyemm, Tunare, AoW and so-on. I speculate they are seeing more than 1.3hits a second (averaged) due to the level gap and sometimes using defensive instead of evasive. Really just guessing though.

When I get home I'll find some logs from aow / kt / vindi etc..

[loramin]

Bard should be able to stack lava diamond with mage DS in classic

Why only bards?

[Naethyn]

Not quite accurate. An optimally played Bard (has an epic) should be able to produce 22 mana a tick for the party, and the damage shield amount should be 65 if a max brass instrument is swapped in over the epic for 1 of those damage shields (otherwise the damage shield amount should be 60).

Going by the initial numbers given in the thread, a 65 damage shield vs an unslowed quadding level 61 NPC would be 85 DPS. That might be a bit lower than vs the hardest raid targets, since they are higher level and will miss a bit less, but in a raid the tank will be a Warrior using Evasive discipline for half of the fight, so let's say this number is 75 DPS. 75 DPS is not 3 Rogues. That said, one of those Bard damage shields also gives +ATK, which is a variable amount of extra DPS being generated, and the Bard can also twist in an AC song, giving the tank a bit more safety.

There's also the Puretone discipline to consider though. I think the damage shield amount increases to 94 with that, while the mana-pump should be able to give 31 mana per tick (the discpline lasts 4 minutes). If the tank uses the defensive discipline rather than evasive while the bard has Puretone up, then for those 3 minutes the Bard could be doing 123 DPS with damage shields.

So, against unslowable raid targets that are also hard to hit in melee, the Bard could definitely be more useful for DPS than as a mana-pump for the Clerics. I think you'd really have to calculate it further based on the exact DPS vs Cleric composition at the raid, and how long the fight is expected to go. Are people really going to do that? Probably not. What I would say though, is that if you have an extra Bard who isn't with a full group of 5 Clerics, then vs unslowable targets it might be an easy bet that they are better off doing damage shield.

One other note: mana-pumping a group of 5 Wizards for 8 minutes when they can use the Dragonbane nuke would result in the Bard adding 100 DPS to the raid, whereas the damage shield amount in that span of time would average to about 95 DPS. Maybe the extra bit of +ATK from one of those damage shield songs would bring that Bard up to 100 DPS contribution as well.

/GU The Avatar of War in 217s, 779k @3590dps --- Naethyn 46k @216dps --- A Drakkel Dire Wolf 45k @221dps --- Behan 20k @100dps --- Vatrubat 20k @94dps --- Mattis 18k @91dps --- Kakao 18k @102dps --- Eviscerare 18k @90dps --- Luddo 17k @81dps --- Spags + pets 17k @81dps --- Katera 17k @86dps

From the last aow (I died after 40%~) and I only had 101 ds. Maximum is 123 from what I've seen in game. Consider another 20% damage for reference. If I try harder I can find a vyemm that shows it. I will correct my last statement by saying it needs to be an unslowable flurry for maximum effect.

The thing to consider is the amount of time the encounter is reduced (bard ds) vs how much longer the clerics can heal for (bard mana). I think it is obviously clear that unslowable flurry mobs the ds will end up reducing time far more than a full group of clerics being able to keep the fight going longer.

[Naethyn]

Correction. The maximum I've parsed is 127.

https://imgur.com/nm1uDrU.jpg

[Snaggles]

Really cool data, thanks for this :) .

I know I’ve gotten lazy with the ranger but this has firmly parked Shield of Spikes back on the spell bar.