A 4-team, hard-coded setup that could work

[Aenor]

My previous thread (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38118) discussed a Rallos-style setup with +/- 6 level spread for PvP. There was some insistence in that thread that only a team-based setup could work.

Therefore, here's my proposal for a 4-team, hard-coded server:

Team: Darkies
Races: Dark Elf, Ogre, Troll, Gnome
Cities: Neriak, Oggok, Grobb, Ak'Anon
Classes: Cleric, Enchanter, Mage, Necromancer, Rogue, Shadow Knight, Shaman, Warrior, Wizard

Team: Lighties
Races: Dwarf, Halfling, High Elf, Wood Elf
Cities: Kaladim, Rivervale, Felwithe, Kelethin
Classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Enchanter, Mage, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warrior, Wizard

Team: Evil humans
Races: Human, Erudite, Barbarian
Cities: Freeport, Paineel, Halas
Classes: Bard, Cleric, Enchanter, Mage, Monk, Necromancer, Rogue, Shadowknight, Shaman, Warrior, Wizard

Team: Good humans
Races: Human, Half Elf, Erudite
Cities: Qeynos, Surefall Glade, Erudin
Classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Enchanter, Mage, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warrior, Wizard

[Troy]

How do you decide which humans/erudites are good and which are evil besides clr/pal/shd/nec?

[Aenor]

This would be a hard-coded setup like Sullon where each team would be unable to group with, guild with or cast beneficial spells on members of other teams. Unlike Sullon, I again suggest the +/- 6 level spread for PvP as a compromise between the +/- 4 of Rallos (which I found too restrictive) and the more wide-open +/- 8 of Tallon and Vallon Zek.

Obvious drawbacks:

Paineel is not classic.

Lighties get no feign death class

Other than that I think it works pretty well. Paineel is necessary so that each of the human teams gets 3 starting cities and races. The Darkies and Lighties have the advantage of an extra starting city but the drawback of only 9 or 10 classes vs. 11 each for the two human teams.

As with the other thread, I suggest that in zones like Sol B and Lower Guk, all level restrictions be removed. What other drawbacks do you see? Which team would you pick on a server with this setup?

[Aenor]

How do you decide which humans/erudites are good and which are evil besides clr/pal/shd/nec?

Just that. It gives the world context. The story of this server is that it's post-Race War. Freeport is fallen and all good humans have retreated to Qeynos. The Barbarians have declared war on Qeynos and the gnomes have finally revealed their despicable nature by joining with the darkies.

The original Race War servers would have never worked as hard-coded servers because the Elf team got screwed on classes. Elven Royal Guard were the one guild on Vallon that stayed Elf purist. Every raid target they took down was a major accomplishment given the restrictions they imposed on themselves.

Sullon did not work because opening the server with Kunark gave the evil team an insurmountable advantage. Evils had an entire expansion to themselves where they could level to 60 without ever seeing a good or newt, while the latter were in each other's faces from day one, often sharing starting cities.

One thing I liked about Vallon was that whoever started in the same city as me was on my team. You don't log in to random ganking as it was on Rallos so it's more friendly to new players and supports a larger population.

At the same time I think 3 teams is too few. One team ends up being underpopulated and it's basically very close to WoW-style good vs. evil which blows dick. Race War was incredible back in the day because the cross teaming allowed a lot of political options. For this server, however, I say go hard coded to solve the problem of immortal healing.

[solid]

Having teams without bards on a pvp server is a joke.

[Aenor]

Having teams without bards on a pvp server is a joke.

From my understanding, Darkies won Tallon and were extremely competitive on Vallon without Bards. Point not taken. However I did miss bards on the Lightie team. That gives them 10 classes and softens the blow of no feign death class somewhat.

[Envious]

Wont work.

Bards are too essential. Only have get SKs. Eh, not going into detail, but this wont work.

There are only 2 possible ways to do teams, open race / class combos for the traditional 3 team setup, or make it 2 teams.

I favor the opening of race / class combo... so my Ogre bard / monk can rock out.

[solid]

From my understanding, Darkies won Tallon and were extremely competitive on Vallon without Bards. Point not taken. However I did miss bards on the Lightie team. That gives them 10 classes and softens the blow of no feign death class somewhat.

n=2, statistically insignificant for forecasting.

Anyway, you would have to be retarded to knowingly roll a character on any team without bards & sham buffs. Evil humans win. Next server.

[Envious]

From my understanding, Darkies won Tallon and were extremely competitive on Vallon without Bards. Point not taken. However I did miss bards on the Lightie team. That gives them 10 classes and softens the blow of no feign death class somewhat.

Neg. PDM won TZ, with massive amounts of invuln healing / xteaming / gear advantage / massive numbers.

[JayDee]

From my understanding, Darkies won Tallon

No druids either

All 3 of our opposing teams had to band together just to compete.

[JayDee]

Neg. PDM won TZ, with massive amounts of invuln healing / xteaming / gear advantage / massive numbers.

Xteaming came well after the lighties merge

[JayDee]

I don't like the idea of having to con someone or identify their class before I know whether he is my opponent/teammate, however.

[Envious]

Xteaming came well after the lighties merge

Xteaming on TZ started immediately, but nobody cared whiel it was 2v1 (Lights / Neuts vs Darks), but when the dark team started with the xteaming is what I consider the start of xteaming.

And that began with Reformation / PDM, a little into Kunark.

[Aenor]

You would have to be retarded to knowingly roll a character on any team without bards & sham buffs.

I know alot of darkies on Vallon Zek that would have smoked you like a cuban cigar if you had ever played on a challenging server.

[Aenor]

I don't like the idea of having to con someone or identify their class before I know whether he is my opponent/teammate, however.

Make good human team have blue names and evil human team have red names.

[Estrang]

Come play on p99. We dont need to fight and contest over mobs. Lets just grind and get all the gear we want. Seriously

[Jadian]

As Sect of Silence/Illuvitae we took down several raid targets on VZ elf only.

[Aenor]

As Sect of Silence/Illuvitae we took down several raid targets on VZ elf only.

/salute

[solid]

I know alot of darkies on Vallon Zek that would have smoked you like a cuban cigar if you had ever played on a challenging server.

Herp derp my dad could beat up your dad.

Listen, you're already wasting your time trying to drum up ideas for servers that won't exist anyway; the least you could do is think of one that doesn't suck.

[JayDee]

Make good human team have blue names and evil human team have red names.

Forgot about that

Seems a bit too customized and flawed for my taste, but Kudos on the effort you've put forth good lad.

[Lazortag]

You can actually get up to three different colours for names with the titanium client (one for each team), but not four. You might be able to have it so that everyone who isn't on your team has a red name, but you'd have to ask Secrets.

Releasing Paineel at the start is doable, they did it on this server I think (probably because very few people know the exact make-up of Erudin when Necros were allowed to start there).

Evil humans are definitely way too strong under your setup, but it's an interesting suggestion.

[Knuckle]

team servers are gonna fail, you cant split a 500 person pop. into 4 teams.

[Estrang]

Why not make it 1 team

[Cfullard]

Having teams without bards on a pvp server is a joke.

Rofl - Vallon Zek was dark team controlled. Period. They had no bards, they had no druids but Dark team ruled that server and just like Tallon forced the 'Good' races to team up just to stand a chance.

Please know wtf you're talking about before you hurp-durp your way into a thread with carebear statements like this. Dark Team PvE'd for gear and did so without 'must have' classes. If this is going to be like TZ / VZ it needs to look like this.

Human Team -
Humans Barbarians Erudite
Freeport, Qeynos, Halas, Erudin, Paineel

Elven Team -
Wood Elf, Half Elf, High Elf
Kelethin, Felwithe

Short Team
Dwarf, Halfling, Gnome
Kaladim, Akanon, Rivervale

Evil Team
Trolls, Ogres, Dark Elf (Kunark, Iksar)
Neriak, Grobb, Oggok, Cabalis

It worked, it just did, and in truth I wish it would stay this way because for those of us who did TZ/VZ this is what we are used to.

Also, if I remember correctly it was

Humans - Blue names
Elves - Yellow Names
Evil - Orange name
Shorts - Purple

[Aenor]

It worked, it just did.

I am 100% in favor of P99 Red being an exact copy of Vallon/Tallon Zek circa 1999. If you want to copy one of the classic rulesets, why not copy the only one that was so popular they had to carbon copy it onto a second server?

Soft-coded teams would also solve Knuckle's issue. If you can group and guild across teams, you don't have to worry about the population being too thinly divided among hard coded teams. Then you have the political dynamic of purist guilds vs. cross teamers and may the biggest ballsack win.

[Lasher]

taking all the light races on tallon equaled how many people played dark races. SO even though lights had more races to use darks had more people playing

[solid]

Rofl - Vallon Zek was dark team controlled. Period. They had no bards, they had no druids but Dark team ruled that server and just like Tallon forced the 'Good' races to team up just to stand a chance.

Please know wtf you're talking about before you hurp-durp your way into a thread with carebear statements like this. Dark Team PvE'd for gear and did so without 'must have' classes. If this is going to be like TZ / VZ it needs to look like this.


Yes, that's great that you're all providing 1 instance where the server resulted contrary to what logic would lead us to believe. I was #1 rogue on SZ's evil team for a while, and we won the server too.

You're ignoring, however, the information curves that we've all overcome. IE- people rolling toons back then didn't realize the magnitude of the team they were picking, most people picked a team for other reasons than class balance. If you made this server today teams without bards would get shit on. Quite frankly, it's a waste of time to even be talking about this.


I am 100% in favor of P99 Red being an exact copy of Vallon/Tallon Zek circa 1999. If you want to copy one of the classic rulesets, why not copy the only one that was so popular they had to carbon copy it onto a second server?


I think this is the crux of our argument. A lot of you seem to just want to replicate VZ or TZ or whatever.

VZ & TZ are *DEAD* move on, nerds.

[Estrang]

Why not make it 1 team

thoughts?

[Cfullard]

Yes, that's great that you're all providing 1 instance where the server resulted contrary to what logic would lead us to believe. I was #1 rogue on SZ's evil team for a while, and we won the server too.

You're ignoring, however, the information curves that we've all overcome. IE- people rolling toons back then didn't realize the magnitude of the team they were picking, most people picked a team for other reasons than class balance. If you made this server today teams without bards would get shit on. Quite frankly, it's a waste of time to even be talking about this.




I think this is the crux of our argument. A lot of you seem to just want to replicate VZ or TZ or whatever.

VZ & TZ are *DEAD* move on, nerds.

Sullon Zek died almost immediatly after launch. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there junior. You were #1 rogue on a server that had possibly, POSSIBLY 200 people online at peak hours. Yeah, big competition range there.

And I agree Mr. #1 rogue on a dead server, it is a waste of time for you to talk about this. Move along.

Your reasoning for being an expert on this is like saying you were the number 1 mage on the vztz server. Any slow child with half a brain could play a mage on that.

Sullon Zek was a crap server that wasn't balanced at all. Goods got shit on from day 1 due to the fact they could not level anywhere without getting run over. Everyone played Neutrals and Evils and all the emo Linkin Park kids ran to Evil so they could be on the cool side. Hell I remember Faydark was an absolute GRIEF zone because goods couldn't even level there without getting run over by evils sitting in all the spots where people did their grinding. You hide to literally go hide in places WAY out of the way before you could do any leveling. Evils pretty much leveled with impunity because there was just so many freaking many of them, so again, don't pat yourself on the back too much about being the # 1 rogue on that garbage box.

[solid]

Sullon Zek died almost immediatly after launch. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there junior. You were #1 rogue on a server that had possibly, POSSIBLY 200 people online at peak hours. Yeah, big competition range there.

And I agree Mr. #1 rogue on a dead server, it is a waste of time for you to talk about this. Move along.

Your reasoning for being an expert on this is like saying you were the number 1 mage on the vztz server. Any slow child with half a brain could play a mage on that.

Sullon Zek was a crap server that wasn't balanced at all. Goods got shit on from day 1 due to the fact they could not level anywhere without getting run over. Everyone played Neutrals and Evils and all the emo Linkin Park kids ran to Evil so they could be on the cool side. Hell I remember Faydark was an absolute GRIEF zone because goods couldn't even level there without getting run over by evils sitting in all the spots where people did their grinding. You hide to literally go hide in places WAY out of the way before you could do any leveling. Evils pretty much leveled with impunity because there was just so many freaking many of them, so again, don't pat yourself on the back too much about being the # 1 rogue on that garbage box.

Lol, what a joke. I can agree SZ wasn't a sustainable server model, but you don't know anything about Sullon Zek, and that's apparent. Looking at: http://members.cox.net/cattoe_sz/ you can see that not only was SZ's population in the thousands; but also, you were wrong about the population skewness. So, the good team may have been getting steamrolled, but it wasn't due to their lack of numbers.

Anyway, trying to make a server verbatim to what you remember from your fuzzy memories of the past and implying that it will work, because:
It worked, it just did is the kind of thing that we should try to avoid in talking about potential servers. You're doing your own cause a disservice by just frothing at the mouth at how great VZ was or whatever.

[Cfullard]

These population estimates are based on the assumption that everyone level 6 and above were either killed or killed someone atleast once during the month. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do without more help from Sony.

So basically, It assumed that every single person on the server was PVPing, and if I remember right, Flowers of Happiness as a PACIFIST guild. If that's too big a word for you, it means, they were FOOD. They DID NOT fight back, they got ganked all day long.

Stop talking. Please. Just stop.

Also, when you're going to post numbers like that make sure it's from a reliable source. This was pretty hillarious to look at.

Lastly, if your easy response is to say everyone was raging at you being a complete moron about how 'populated' sullon zek? Then yep, we're all gnashing at the teeth about this brew.

[solid]

So basically, It assumed that every single person on the server was PVPing, and if I remember right, Flowers of Happiness as a PACIFIST guild. If that's too big a word for you, it means, they were FOOD. They DID NOT fight back, they got ganked all day long.

Stop talking. Please. Just stop.

God damn dude, you're retarded. Even if you don't fight back and die, you're recorded in their database and you are now counted in that database's population estimate. So, your example of a pacifist guild is wrong, those people would be counted. The only people NOT counted would be the people that didn't log a pvp kill/death all month. Thus, these numbers are pretty accurate. If people were fighting back or not is irrelevant.


Lastly, if your easy response is to say everyone was raging at you being a complete moron about how 'populated' sullon zek? Then yep, we're all gnashing at the teeth about this brew.

Nope, I've upheld what I've been saying along, the VZ fanboi argument is dumb and shouldn't be taken seriously. The SZ bit was just exemplifying your lack of credibility.

[Cfullard]

Sure.

First, calm down.

Second, i'm not beating my drum over how much a wonderland VZ / TZ was. All I simply said was it was better then SZ, and that's a fact. It had its flaws which were pretty big ones. Immortal healing / cross teaming being the biggest one. Coding that went into SZ could have been put on VZ / TZ. Sullon Zek was hardly a magical fairy tale and numbers speak for themselves. If Sullon had that in an entire 24 hours period, then Vallon probably had that and much more. But hey, i'm done here.

But feel free to beat your own drum, I know how the server should turn out and what needs to happen to make it one hell of a box. Continue to feel free to argue with yourself about this because my point was made a long time ago :) Don't feel like argueing with a troll :p

[solid]

lol @ more logical fallacies

[Rust1d?]

If you have one team, you are going to have one huge guild who will be controlling everything. If you have two teams, you will have two big guilds battling it out.

If you have teams, then do not have level restrictions. Make it so you have to get to level 10 or something in order to pvp so you prevent noob ganking (it would happen and I would be the one doing it)

The issue with two teams is that it splits up the server. So if you have a pop of 500, it is really only 250 for each side assuming equal sides.

In the end, you are going to have people who will not be happy with the rule set. What needs to be done is to come up with a system that the majority agrees upon.

[JayDee]

Anybody got a summarized Play by Play

[solid]

Anybody got a summarized Play by Play

People want to reincarnate VZ with hardcoded teams, and they don't see why that's a stupid idea for a server. Other than that no real discussion happened in this thread. Just Cfullard spewing hyperbole, getting caught, and then him ducking out with his tail between his legs. Can move along np.

[Rushmore]

How bout FFA

[wehrmacht]

My previous thread discussed a Rallos-style setup with +/- 6 level spread for PvP.

Here we go again. More trash players asking for a 4, 6, or 8 level limit when even mongoloid games like WoW don't have them.

I would never support any kind of level limits but if I did for some reason, a 52 wizard can easily lure of ice a level 60 to death so there is 0 fucking reason for anything less than 8. There is also no reason for any level limit so small that multiple groups fighting in places like Karnors wouldn't be able to attack each other. If for some reason you were dumb enough to implement such a bad idea, it would have to be something like 15, not 4, 6, or 8.


Therefore, here's my proposal for a 4-team, hard-coded server

First of all, VZ teams are terrible. People said SZ teams weren't balanced well? VZ teams are balanced even worse. There's no reason to use them at all.

Second of all, 4 teams is way too many for server population. You would have to have an extremely poor grasp on reality to even think that was a good suggestion.

You would have some Heresy-esque guild on one team that raided and no other team would be able to cobble together enough clerics, tanks, etc to do anything. Two teams is ideal, three teams would probably be barely doable, 4 is just idiotic to even suggest.


Best Option for teams:

Race War - 2 teams: each team gets every class

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)
--------------------
Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)
---------------------
Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf


Second best option:

Sullon Zek Good and Neut teams combined vs Evils

Good team:
-----------
karana
tunare
elrollisi
brell
mithaniel
tribunal
quellious
rodcet
prexus
bristlebane
sol ro


Evil Team:
---------
innoruk
bertox
rallos
cazic thule
veeshan

[solid]

Could be wrong but, I'm pretty sure veeshan wasn't an evil diety. I seem to recall having sigs of veeshan.

[lethdar]

Could be wrong but, I'm pretty sure veeshan wasn't an evil diety. I seem to recall having sigs of veeshan.

Righto you are, veeshan was neutral. Monks had veeshan added as a diety choice in qeynos in order to get them on the neutral team.

[lethdar]

Also, man y'all are dumb, hardcoded 2 teams is a terrible idea, 3 is even worse.

To suggest 4 as a viable ruleset means that you are really really dumb, fo real.

[Jigga]

SZ started in 2001
SZ died off faster than rz,tz,vz
Wehr is from SZ

Lets get more ideas about why a new server should emulate sz

[Prince]

just 2 clear this up i am p confident flowers has never been a pacifist guild

[Buhbuh]

I didn't read all of this but occasionally stop by to see how the progress is going. One foreseeable problem with teams is that-- and I'm dead certain other people on team servers felt this way at times-- no one can attack each other from the same team (obviously), despite whether or not they're in different, competing guilds.


That's one massive fail team servers had. The 8 level range wasn't too terrible. The 4 level range was. RZ, TZ, and SZ each had it right to a degree. With emu servers, the rule set is always going to be SZ style regardless of GM's. Frap'd hacking and training, sure, ban (and probably overwhelming consensus' that certain players are fucksticks will draw attention/ eventually give them the ban).

loveyouknuckle

[solid]

just 2 clear this up i am p confident flowers has never been a pacifist guild

They weren't, I was just humoring his stupidity. You can even go to their guild page on the link I gave and see that they were active pvpers.

[Prince]

ya i no u knew, there was just nothing else in entire thread worth replying 2

[Estrang]

What about having one team though

[Prince]

or how about every race is a different team

[solid]

Make 16 teams based on what personality you are according to the myers-briggs personality test.

[snwbrdr642]

fuck no cross teaming.


not having it.

[snwbrdr642]

also what's wrong with the classic 3 teams

darkies, shorties, humans.

done and done. you can xteam. u can also attack your own team.

edit
shit forgot about elves. 4 teams.

[Estrang]

fuck no cross teaming.

is that

fuck, no cross teaming
fuck no, cross teaming
or my personal favorite
fuck no cross, teaming

[Estrang]

also what's wrong with the classic 3 teams

darkies, shorties, humans.

done and done. you can xteam. u can also attack your own team.

are you suggesting genocide on elves

[snwbrdr642]

Rofl - Vallon Zek was dark team controlled. Period. They had no bards, they had no druids but Dark team ruled that server and just like Tallon forced the 'Good' races to team up just to stand a chance.

Please know wtf you're talking about before you hurp-durp your way into a thread with carebear statements like this. Dark Team PvE'd for gear and did so without 'must have' classes. If this is going to be like TZ / VZ it needs to look like this.

Human Team -
Humans Barbarians Erudite
Freeport, Qeynos, Halas, Erudin, Paineel

Elven Team -
Wood Elf, Half Elf, High Elf
Kelethin, Felwithe

Short Team
Dwarf, Halfling, Gnome
Kaladim, Akanon, Rivervale

Evil Team
Trolls, Ogres, Dark Elf (Kunark, Iksar)
Neriak, Grobb, Oggok, Cabalis

It worked, it just did, and in truth I wish it would stay this way because for those of us who did TZ/VZ this is what we are used to.

Also, if I remember correctly it was

Humans - Blue names
Elves - Yellow Names
Evil - Orange name
Shorts - Purple


this so hard. i forgot about the elf team, yeah.

but the reason it worked is because most of the pop rolled darkies and the other 3 teams teamed up against them.

it was the fucking best, and i really can't think of a better alternative.

[lethdar]

My knowledge of elder languages that are capable of vibrating chakras will result in your defeat.

[solid]

Please, ESFPs would even roll yall.

[lethdar]

ESFP cant even handle a gold standard.

[solid]

Anyone with a brain can't handle a gold standard.

[wehrmacht]

Our soviet rockets will crush the bourgeois ENTJ

[Aenor]

Best Option for teams:

Race War - 2 teams: each team gets every class

Translated...

I like WoW.

Seriously man if you're such a weak player that you need the server to automatically assign half the population to be your friends, WoW might be the game for you. WoW PvP = Fail. Sullon Zek = Fail.

[solid]

Seriously man if you're such a weak player that you need the server to automatically assign half the population to be your friends, WoW might be the game for you. WoW PvP = Fail. Sullon Zek = Fail.

This is a non sequitur. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with 2 teams that offer every class. Personally, it's not what I'd want, but it's much better than gimping certain teams out of classes.

[Darwoth]

free for all is the only way the server will be worth a fuck, its annoying that there are so many half assed pvp lite retards from the team servers annoying me by spewing their shit.

max population and max target rulset would be as follows:



ffa, or a "soft" two team setup with the ability to kill your own team in exchange for a shitty faction hit with your victims home town guards (like discord had)

no item loot (unfortunately) but allow coin loot, broadcast the death serverwide, have a leaderboard and perhaps some sort of token style system like sullon.

no level limits, however in order to get a token, coin loot etc the victim needs to be within x levels.

no stupid rules against training, corpse camping etc.



deviations from the above are stupid and will result in a 200 pop server that will die off shortly after launch.

[solid]

^ yep

[gnomishfirework]

free for all is the only way the server will be worth a fuck, its annoying that there are so many half assed pvp lite retards from the team servers annoying me by spewing their shit.

max population and max target rulset would be as follows:

ffa, or a "soft" two team setup with the ability to kill your own team in exchange for a shitty faction hit with your victims home town guards (like discord had)

no item loot (unfortunately) but allow coin loot, broadcast the death serverwide, have a leaderboard and perhaps some sort of token style system like sullon.

no level limits, however in order to get a token, coin loot etc the victim needs to be within x levels.

no stupid rules against training, corpse camping etc.

deviations from the above are stupid and will result in a 200 pop server that will die off shortly after launch.

This, only thing I might change is have it FFA and you take factions hits no matter who you kill for their home town based upon that persons faction with their home town -- so if you kill someone who's not at least indiff to their home town guards, you don't take a faction hit. No level limit and still offers protections for newbies.

I don't know if such a thing is possible. I guess if you defend yourself you wouldn't take a faction hit so people can't grief newbies by attacking and then letting them win. If you attack someone you get flagged so that anyone can attack you with no repercussions until you zone.

Maybe not the best idea. You would always have to give your attackers first show if you don't want a faction hit.

[Cfullard]

broadcast the death serverwide

No thank you. I don't need some dumbass training a group constantly just to get the killing blows getting spam all day. Thanks, pass.

The people wanting FFA normally will leave server after it's created. It's been proven time and time again with every game that's did a FFA PvP server. The only one that mildly succeeded was Rallos Zek. Make the server item loot and you've got my attention. Make it Exp loss and you've really got my attention. Make people have a penalty for dieing, not just Oh no, lost some coin! Whoop-dee-doo!

My perfect server? 16 level limit for PvP. That way you don't have scrubs sitting in newbie zones ganking level 1's. In truth, make it so that a person is out of range for PvP unless they attack you. That way you can have your fights but only if they attack you first. Teams, Coin loot, 1 item loot from body except weapons or anything from bags they had open when they died and experience loss. Discourages twinking and gets rid of the carebears straight off the bat. You don't like that, I hear WoW has a pretty unicorn arena system you can try. You also get to play a pretty anime character! Yay!

[Rust1d?]

The problem with item loot is that you will have naked casters running around ganking everyone. I do not want to spend time killing a caster and getting nothing. Item loot will chase people off the server once they lose precious pixels.

[wehrmacht]

free for all is the only way the server will be worth a fuck

If this was an EQ live server with 1000+ people where you can afford to lose some you might be right but it's not.

You didn't play on TZVZ to see how FFA works out there. One or two guilds control everything on the server (Heresy & Fishbait) then everyone else quits.

Look at your quote from Altergate:

"Each time i died was to a zerg of at least 3 or assisted by mobs, unfortunately i dont run radar to avoid the ******squads" - Darwoth

If you thought the playstyle of people on Altergate was bad, TZVZ was ten times worse. If you think you're gonna walk around solo and fight people, sorry, not gonna happen. Every Heresy member on the server walked around in nothing less than a group of six 24/7.

Unless you plan to join the #1 or #2 guild of the server, there is no reason to even play. You'll just be constantly running away from giant ventrillo zergs of people who started with a guild of 30 on day 1.

Without teams, you get the following demographics and server dies or just sits there with a constant 50 population:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7960/fghjjjj.jpg

[Jigga]

wehr you know its not going to be teams right?

[Rust1d?]

It is obvious whatever VZ/TZ did , did not work because when I played there were maybe 50 -70 people playing with Velious open. That will not work. I'm not sure how they plan on setting this server up, but anything will be better than what VZ/TZ was.

I would hate to get a character up to level 50 with people leaving in droves. I am not for or against teams, I am for what works best.

[Lasher]

Velious sucked ass. I mean i loved it but how it was released and handled was terrible. No raid mobs were adjusted, they were spawning like ever 24 hours. Eventually you saw 3 guild in velious. ToW,Heresy and No homo. ToW and Heresy were close in numbers, no homo had less but they picked their fights well and usually were able to use gorilla warfare to win.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/cwz319/EQ000007.jpg

[Clownface]

In response to the original poster of this thread:

You put a lot of thought into this but 4 teams is too many and who in the fuck would ever play that crappy human light team?

Keep it to 2 teams or no teams. We Learned on SZ that a 3 team system leaves 1 team doing nothing. 4 teams is too many. 6 minute abs.

[Clownface]

Oh and Lasher.. ToW beat that server.

[Lasher]

ToW was so great but never heard of any of those chars in your sig. You play under a diff name in vztz that i might know of?

[wehrmacht]

Keep it to 2 teams or no teams. We Learned on SZ that a 3 team system leaves 1 team doing nothing. 4 teams is too many.

Yes.

wehr you know its not going to be teams right?

If that was true, it would be kind of pathetic that the server isn't released yet. Implement whatever resist system Null made and set everyone's chaos book flags to "ON". Will need adjustments after release no matter how long they wait to release it.

[Clownface]

ToW was so great but never heard of any of those chars in your sig. You play under a diff name in vztz that i might know of?

dont troll me bro

[Prince]

eladamslam was literally horrendous- slew him (epic, fully raid/dragon geared 60 sk) in qrg with naked 59 wiz

[Aenor]

Keep it to 2 teams or no teams.

If that's the consensus then I vote no teams. Two teams just means if I'm Whermacht and I'm tired of getting dominated by guild X, I can just log out and make a character on that team to avoid PvP.

[Koota]

Boring.

[wehrmacht]

If that's the consensus then I vote no teams. Two teams just means if I'm Whermacht and I'm tired of getting dominated by guild X, I can just log out and make a character on that team to avoid PvP.

Keep dreaming. Your description there is pretty much how the guild <Heresy> was formed under a FFA system. There was a population of 50 PvP server and everyone over level 40 joined the same guild.

[Jigga]

So everyone knows, wehrmacht was included in the " everyone joined the same guild" Fishbait. I ran with a few friend and had fun on 2.0 and i didnt feel the need to join fishbait. Also there was more than 50. Server hit i think it was just under 330 so at worst it was about 150 people but im sure not all were two boxing but can say 150 for safe measure.

Dude you need to start getting your shit together. You are a pussy piece of shit bluebie who cries at everything.

Heresy triggers tears for wehr
root triggers tears for wehr
snare triggers tears for wehr
Blind triggers tears for wehr
mez triggers tears for wehr
FFA triggers tears for wehr
Not being able to kill countless greens triggers tears for wehr
Looking into mirror triggers tears for wehr.

Please come back with something you think is clever which will either be regurgitated from somewhere else or you will link/say something that has no point.

[Koota]

Heresy triggers tears for wehr
root triggers tears for wehr
snare triggers tears for wehr
Blind triggers tears for wehr
mez triggers tears for wehr
FFA triggers tears for wehr
Not being able to kill countless greens triggers tears for wehr
Looking into mirror triggers tears for wehr.

Please come back with something you think is clever which will either be regurgitated from somewhere else or you will link/say something that has no point.

[minakto]

Heresy triggers tears for wehr
root triggers tears for wehr
snare triggers tears for wehr
Blind triggers tears for wehr
mez triggers tears for wehr
FFA triggers tears for wehr
Not being able to kill countless greens triggers tears for wehr
Looking into mirror triggers tears for wehr.

Please come back with something you think is clever which will either be regurgitated from somewhere else or you will link/say something that has no point.

[wehrmacht]

Not being able to kill countless greens triggers tears for wehr

[Prince]

seriously y0 just go play sum counterstrike and be done with it

[MegamanXZOBMV]

@ Front page

I played Dark on Tallon.

We had no issues involving not having a bard. No Bards, Druids, Pallies, or Rangers... I don't recall anyone talking about us being swept, dominated, ''lol we ned brdz''.

Nothin' like that.

[lethdar]

@ Front page

I played with overwhelming numerical superiority my entire time on the server.

We had no issues involving not having a bard. No Bards, Druids, Pallies, or Rangers... I don't recall anyone talking about us being swept, dominated, ''lol we ned brdz'' not having bards just doesn't really matter when we outnumber everyone we fight by a significant margin.

Nothin' like that.

Inserted some relevant facts about why megaman didn't really mind not having bards into his post.

[Clownface]

eladamslam was literally horrendous- slew him (epic, fully raid/dragon geared 60 sk) in qrg with naked 59 wiz

Never happened.

[Prince]

eladamslam confirmed down to merkin in QRG ss avail

[Civeal]

you could have fixed teams and long-ass quests to switch to another which implies help from that team, some commitment never hurts.

healing another team makes you hittable by anyone for a short period of time?