Would you still get SK epic if you already have a Rocksmasher?

[avarantor]

See above and thank you!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

SK Epic is still good for the lifesteal proc. That is a nice way to heal yourself during combat. But obviously there are many better ratio weapons out there for your white damage, such as Rocksmasher.

It becomes more of a swap weapon to use when you need to regain some HP while soloing, you are tanking in a group where your white damage doesn't matter much, you are fighting an AoE battle of some kind where the healers need your help to not die so fast, etc.

[Sonderbeast]

Weapons for melee in the endgame are like spells. Collecting a variety for different instances is valuable.

Epic amazing for soloing, grouping.

Rocksmasher for DPS role.

Shield and a defensive 1 hander for when you are tanking in HOT or wherever.

Keep a Stave of Shielding in your back pocket to proc a free buff.

tl;dr: Yes still worth it!

[Tsunami21k]

Absolutely worth it. One of the coolest quests in the game. Wins fashion quest. Incredible for soloing/questing. Helps considerably if fighting anything with an aoe.

Also stacks with greenmist proc. Do that quest too :-)

[bradsamma]

I absolutely wouldn't bother. Rocksmasher has awesome stats, a great ratio, and amazing haste if you don't already have a 40% or 41% haste item.

Epic has a little proc on it that you won't even notice in a group or raid.

[Ennewi]

Epic has a little proc on it that you won't even notice in a group or raid.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Strike_of_the_Chosen

[Ripqozko]

the answer is no, waste of money time and effort.

[bradsamma]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Strike_of_the_Chosen

Ok?

[Solist]

Yes, but only for fashion. Zero other reason.

[Ennewi]

The proc shines when soloing and farming content, but it's still very decent for group content especially duos and trios which are more common now on blue. It isn't even bad on raids versus AEs, to prevent low HP aggro. And it rarely ever sees a resist, even on those raid targets. Plus it fills a buff slot, potentially taking a dispel instead of the substantial buffs you have to ask other classes for. But forgetting all of that, if 1.5s are ever added, and I've seen a player wielding Innoruuk's Voice on blue, than there's another reason to get it.

Ok?

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shroud_of_Death

[Samoht]

Epic enables 2 hand bash, so if you're using a 2 hander, dropping in epic to interrupt is easier than dropping in a 1 hander and a shield

Might not need to worry about it if you're an inferior race like troll or ogre tho.

[bradsamma]

The proc shines when soloing and farming content, but it's still very decent for group content especially duos and trios which are more common now on blue. It isn't even bad on raids versus AEs, to prevent low HP aggro. And it rarely ever sees a resist, even on those raid targets. Plus it fills a buff slot, potentially taking a dispel instead of the substantial buffs you have to ask other classes for. But forgetting all of that, if 1.5s are ever added, and I've seen a player wielding Innoruuk's Voice on blue, than there's another reason to get it.



https://wiki.project1999.com/Shroud_of_Death

1.5's will never happen on blue and if they do, there is an easy prequest.

Anyhow, that trickle of healing does practically nothing. If AOE'S are that big of a problem, you use wort pots.

And the only time the epic would be even remotely useful in a duo/trio would be if there is literally no healing.

Rocksmasher is just that much better than the epic.

[mattydef]

1.5's will never happen on blue and if they do, there is an easy prequest.

Anyhow, that trickle of healing does practically nothing. If AOE'S are that big of a problem, you use wort pots.

And the only time the epic would be even remotely useful in a duo/trio would be if there is literally no healing.

Rocksmasher is just that much better than the epic.

I wouldn’t really call it a trickle. I’ve been using it on my SK since 50 and it averages probably 500-900 hp healed per fight (the proc can actually tick an additional time).

[Ennewi]

1.5's will never happen on blue

Source?

and if they do, there is an easy prequest.

On live. This isn't live.

Anyhow, that trickle of healing does practically nothing.

Trickle? How much HP does your SK have?

If AOE'S are that big of a problem, you use wort pots.

Why waste pots on ToV trash?

And the only time the epic would be even remotely useful in a duo/trio would be if there is literally no healing.

The proc can act as a counter to heavy dots and helps when FD fails while mobs are beating on you; remain facing the clusterfuck for riposte procs, then FD again and watch health tick back up. Sometimes that means not having to get back in range of heals, so the pull time is shortened. The proc is also useful in duos/trios lacking a reliable means to interrupt nukes. HP bar is less spikey as a result, making the job easier on the healer. Also, if the healer is asleep at the wheel or has an emergency AFK, you aren't reliant on lifetaps alone to stay in the fight.

Rocksmasher is just that much better than the epic.

It's better DPS and potentially opens up another slot for more raw HP, no arguments there.

[Ennewi]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309392

[bradsamma]

You seem to have a very poor understanding of game mechanics.

[Stonewallx39]

You seem to have a very poor understanding of game mechanics.

What a provocatively douchie comment. How about contributing something to the community rather than slathering your vitriol all over the forums?

[Ennewi]

You seem to have a very poor understanding of game mechanics.

The thing is, you aren't just saying that to me but to the majority of posters in the thread linked above. This is a strange hill to die on, or mountain to push a boulder up, but go ahead. At least explain why you're king of the hill though. You answered none of the questions I asked and instead tried to be inflammatory which adds nothing to the conversation except in RNF or in Norrath, role-playing as a Shadow Knight.

Another takeaway from the linked thread...

SKs pull, or at the very least assist with pulling. Rocksmasher has no resists, Innoruuk's Curse has plenty. Resists are necessary. They can't be overemphasized. You can never have enough of them. It also has 2H bash, which means if you're pulling a caster and it's casting on you, there's the opportunity to run back and bash interrupt the ice comet or whatever, without swapping weapons.

As others have said, the epic is a well-rounded weapon for survivability. It complements vampiric embrace/shroud of death (small procs), but it isn't the best for any one thing other than regaining health. Rocksmasher is a DPS weapon with stats that tanks need. It even has AC, which the epic lacks, but again no resists which are high on the list for pullers and the SK spellbook doesn't offer great resists like the paladin's. Granted, there are PoM flowers, along with a plethora of shields and one-handers to swap out to for resists, but that's another conversation.

[Snaggles]

I’d always want the epic even if it’s one of many weapons. This is a time locked server and I still got my IC on live via Luclin when it wasn’t very good. Primarily I used it for jousting, pulling, fashion, and bashing with skelly illusion since you lose slam.

In this era it provides a bit of healing on raids and a lot for group content. Knights often are seen self sufficient for AoE damage (even if it means burning worts on some stuff). You should get Druid heals or torp if lucky but being able to top off hps is often better than eeking out every last dps. White damage the epic is quite a bit lower ( 20%-30% I expect, more if you can’t cap haste without the Rocksmasher). The dot though while rolling is 50/tick so that’s 8dps added that the parser won’t pick up. 8dps is pretty massive even if it’s not always up.

The fact kunark epics stand up so well still is a testament they were making an effort to balance up to where p99 cuts off. Can’t say much past that but that’s why they started doing 1.5/2.0 quests I guess.

[Andrei Chikatilo]

You seem to have a very poor understanding of game mechanics.

Based.



That is how this is done? Exhilarating.


Regards,

[Snaggles]

Also if you have a Rocksmasher it's not a matter of IF you can get the epic but WHEN you will. Even if it's a vanity item, the OP is well likely to get one and occasionally use it.

Is it worth it? Sure, what else do you do in this silly time locked elf sim?

[Toxigen]

I'd just save up for a Tunare sword.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'd just save up for a Tunare sword.

Ratio/stats are amazing, but the root proc is a problem when fear kiting. You still need a great non-rooting weapon, like Rocksmasher, Avatar 2H, Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge, etc. And Epic is still good for the lifesteal proc.

Tunare Sword is better on Paladin as a general main weapon, since they have root built into their kit already.

[Ripqozko]

The thing is, you aren't just saying that to me but to the majority of posters in the thread linked above. This is a strange hill to die on, or mountain to push a boulder up, but go ahead. At least explain why you're king of the hill though. You answered none of the questions I asked and instead tried to be inflammatory which adds nothing to the conversation except in RNF or in Norrath, role-playing as a Shadow Knight.

Another takeaway from the linked thread...

SKs pull, or at the very least assist with pulling. Rocksmasher has no resists, Innoruuk's Curse has plenty. Resists are necessary. They can't be overemphasized. You can never have enough of them. It also has 2H bash, which means if you're pulling a caster and it's casting on you, there's the opportunity to run back and bash interrupt the ice comet or whatever, without swapping weapons.

As others have said, the epic is a well-rounded weapon for survivability. It complements vampiric embrace/shroud of death (small procs), but it isn't the best for any one thing other than regaining health. Rocksmasher is a DPS weapon with stats that tanks need. It even has AC, which the epic lacks, but again no resists which are high on the list for pullers and the SK spellbook doesn't offer great resists like the paladin's. Granted, there are PoM flowers, along with a plethora of shields and one-handers to swap out to for resists, but that's another conversation.

Imagine writing all this and still you'd use shield if you that worried about pulling. If you are pulling easy group content shit, keep your good dps stuff out. Hope that helps.

PS- epic is a waste of time thanks.

[Baler]

One weapon does more damage
The other does less damage

Only keep the weapon that does the most damage.

[Ennewi]

Imagine writing all this and still you'd use shield if you that worried about pulling. If you are pulling easy group content shit, keep your good dps stuff out. Hope that helps.

PS- epic is a waste of time thanks.

My ashenbone shield has no resists. I like to leave behind beautiful corpses so the rogues pick me to drag first. Sorry I don't got https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_of_the_Clawed_Guardian? I'm not.

[Baler]

People will think I'd dumb after this but....

BiS means best in slot

[Ennewi]

BiS also stands for brain injury society (https://www.internationalbrain.org/membership/groups/north-american-brain-injury-society).

[Baler]

BiS also stands for brain injury society (https://www.internationalbrain.org/membership/groups/north-american-brain-injury-society).

https://i.imgur.com/wOKwlrc.gif

no

[Ripqozko]

My ashenbone shield has no resists. I like to leave behind beautiful corpses so the rogues pick me to drag first. Sorry I don't got https://wiki.project1999.com/Shield_of_the_Clawed_Guardian? I'm not.

imagine not being able to buy a sarnak shield thats like nothing now or the one off the shm epic mob.

[Baler]

imagine not being able to buy a sarnak shield thats like nothing now or the one off the shm epic mob.

sarnak shield is legit OP even in the end game, it's a respectable shield.

[Ennewi]

imagine not being able to buy a sarnak shield thats like nothing now or the one off the shm epic mob.

Almost as bad as seeing that same shield graphic on one third of the population in Norrath.

[Ennewi]

People will think I'd dumb after this

https://i.imgur.com/wOKwlrc.gif

no

[Ripqozko]

Almost as bad as seeing that same shield graphic on one third of the population in Norrath.

and yet makes more sense then pulling an epic out for the resists. hope that helps

[Baler]

SK epic is amazing and nice looking, but there are better weapons in ToV.

I said this Direct to one of the top people on P99.

I don't mean disrespect, It's just the truth. And I don't want to rain on the SK's day who has worked so hard to achieve it. but it is a waste of time. :*(

[Ennewi]

and yet makes more sense then pulling an epic out for the resists. hope that helps

Except there are AE spells, so the proc and resists make more sense than a sword and shield because the warrior is tanking. Or the ranger is tanking with weapon shield, the only shield that really matters.

[bradsamma]

The situations where you should use an epic over a weapon like a rocksmasher is when you don't have access to a weapon like a rocksmasher.

[Baler]

Ennewi If you have difficulty defining what I say, my PM box i open. but I presume you're another spinless forum person who will never speak to me like a man and gain understanding where we both stand in this crazy p99 world. You only see me as this monster on the forums who has some problem you have nothing to do with until it's easy to gain your point.

[bradsamma]

Except there are AE spells, so the proc and resists make more sense than a sword and shield because the warrior is tanking. Or the ranger is tanking with weapon shield, the only shield that really matters.

My goodness, what content are you doing where you'll stay alive with the epic's crappy little life tap?

I'm assuming you're in a guild that doesn't do ntov regularly which is why you're arguing that the epic is better than a Rocksmasher(etc)

[Ripqozko]

The situations where you should use an epic over a weapon like a rocksmasher is when you don't have access to a weapon like a rocksmasher.

[Ennewi]

why you're arguing that the epic is better than a Rocksmasher(etc)

Source?

[bradsamma]

Source?

You quote half of my sentence and ask for a source?? What's wrong with you? Is it logic or language compression?

[Ennewi]

You quote half of my sentence and ask for a source?? What's wrong with you? Is it logic or language compression?

You're saying I'm saying something I didn't say. By quoting that, I'm asking you to quote where I said that. Can you stay on topic or do you need to vent in RNF?

[bradsamma]

What do you think I'm saying that you're saying...

You seem to be having trouble understanding more than one person here.

[Ennewi]

What do you think I'm saying that you're saying...

I'm assuming you're in a guild that doesn't do ntov regularly which is why you're arguing that the epic is better than a Rocksmasher(etc)

You seem to be having trouble understanding more than one person here.

My goodness

[bradsamma]

I'm done here. Please work on clear and concise communication.

[Ennewi]

madsamma

https://youtu.be/fcIMIyQnOso

[DeathsSilkyMist]

My goodness, what content are you doing where you'll stay alive with the epic's crappy little life tap?

I'm assuming you're in a guild that doesn't do ntov regularly which is why you're arguing that the epic is better than a Rocksmasher(etc)

I have been a healer in many high end raid fights (let's take Lord Feshlak as an example, where you can't LoS his AoE spell). I would appreciate an SK putting on his Epic, so I can maintain my healing focus on classes with less healing power (such as Rogues). That "crappy lifetap" would basically recover a single AoE from Lord Feshlak. If you proc it 4 times in the battle, you have saved me 200 mana (1 Torpor), that I can use elsewhere.

SK DPS isn't amazing to begin with, even after the damage buffs. The resists + lifetap on Epic are going to be more useful in that fight than a bit of extra white damage or max life (you are not going to be at max life for long, or remain there). Remember, you can't DPS when you are dead, and a healer is going to focus on the classes that do more DPS (such as rogues). If I had to make a choice on who to heal when I was low on mana, SK would be last on the list if there is a more useful class in my group.

But honestly, your first mistake is to bring your SK to a high end raid fight in the first place :D In most cases a different character or a guild toon would be more useful. Just park your SK at the entrance so they can be CoTHed up for loot if that is what you are looking for.

[Ripqozko]

But honestly, your first mistake is raiding on p99 7 years into velious

Agreed

[mattydef]

Whether or not an epic is a waste of time is purely subjective. I’m sure there have been some people that got their epic and maybe regretted it after upgrading to a higher end one (doubt it). Believe it or not there are a hell of a lot more people that come back to p99 wanting an epic weapon over some random BiS weapon. In regards to the SK epic, as someone who plays for fun and occasionally roleplays and most importantly cares about fashion, it is definitely worth it. Rocksmasher in comparison to IC looks like trash, nobody cares about a damn hammer from tov.

[Ripqozko]

Whether or not an epic is a waste of time is purely subjective. I’m sure there have been some people that got their epic and maybe regretted it after upgrading to a higher end one (doubt it). Believe it or not there are a hell of a lot more people that come back to p99 wanting an epic weapon over some random BiS weapon. In regards to the SK epic, as someone who plays for fun and occasionally roleplays and most importantly cares about fashion, it is definitely worth it. Rocksmasher in comparison to IC looks like trash, nobody cares about a damn hammer from tov.

Sorry you dont got rocksmasher, hope that helped.

[mattydef]

Sorry you dont got rocksmasher, hope that helped.

Nobody is impressed with a Rocksmasher pal (or any pixel on this game) but go ahead and keep thinking so. I’ll just continue to stroke my dick to a real man’s weapon, it’s quite enjoyable.

[Ripqozko]

Nobody is impressed with a Rocksmasher pal (or any pixel on this game) but go ahead and keep thinking so. I’ll just continue to stroke my dick to a real man’s weapon, it’s quite enjoyable.

sorry you dont got

[Snaggles]

Wow this took a turn, lol.

It’s still a good jouster (duels). Good skelly bash weapon (or small sk) when you prefer an one click 2h bash swap, good fashion weap. I guess if you know you won’t get heals a decent RNG lifeboat if it will land on the target. Stalling a guardian kozz? Might buy you a little time. Killing greens in Droga? Prob one of the better options. Fear kite on a stunt kill nibbling down your hps? Swap in and hope for an early proc.

Does it parse like a 40/45? No, that dot adds a lot. Does it parse like a 1.15% ToV weapon with 41% haste? No.

I’d still get it. Because this is a game for grown-babies. Enjoy being spoiled by all the toys. Just get it if it will make you happy.

[Danth]

Epic is the best weapon I have. Not in a guild and not interested in Temple Veeshan, so ToV weapons are off the table for me. Epic does nicely for solo and is extremely nice for duo with the wife's shaman--it complements Torpor nicely since the effects stack. If I had something like a Rocksmasher I'd regard the epic as fluff. It'd probably get equipped once in awhile but for a person with access to such weapons the epic's entirely optional. Not sure why this thread needed to reach 6 pages.

Danth

[Ennewi]

People assuming an argument was being made that epic is best in slot, which was never suggested. Emotions spilled over. Delicate subject, how different imaginary swords measure up.

[Ennewi]

The situations where you should use an epic over a weapon like a rocksmasher is when you don't have access to a weapon like a rocksmasher.

Also, I'd put 100k on epic over rocksmasher for farming Gargoyle Guardian (https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Gargoyle_Guardian)s.

[Toxigen]

But honestly, your first mistake is to bring your SK to a high end raid fight in the first place :D In most cases a different character or a guild toon would be more useful. Just park your SK at the entrance so they can be CoTHed up for loot if that is what you are looking for.

this

[SpinFin]

No.

If you're into solo'ing, pursue a Willsapper.

[tycohunden]

I got epic purely for aestetic reasons. I had Frostreaver and Meljeldin, bane of Giants before I got it and I rarely use it other than looking hella swag and slamming as a skellie (ruined my day when I found out skellies were utter bashlets).
Sure man do it, I love that flashy skull sword! But don't count on it to be any good! The procc is too weak to make a difference when soloing.
Frostreaver on the other hand is an amazing weapon for pulling massive aggro and the meljeldins 45/38 stats make you compete with... ummm badly geared other classes.
It made me get on the dps list on vindi, which is basically my biggest dps accomplishment, also it has no procc which always is good for not generating raid leader aggro!

[Ennewi]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799121

Thread: SK epic vs other weapons, worth?
#61
Old 10-25-2018, 11:41 AM
jabic jabic is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 318
Default
I'm very fond of using Innoruuk's Curse, and I have had it for about two-and-a-half years on this box, through a wide swath of gear (getting progressively better as my time as casual scum goes by). I have weapons with better ratios that I will use in certain situations (generally for raids), but time and again I come back to the epic because it checks a lot of boxes in one item (read: Very Well Rounded Item)--resists, good melee and casting stats, relatively good ratio for DPS, some anti-caster properties (2h Bash), hard-to-resist magic damage (Soul Consumption), and some moderately good healing (50 hp/tick from Soul Consumption). I don't run a parser, so take what follows with a grain of salt, of course.

For soloing: The epic shines. Stacking dots and meleeing a mob down with the epic is very efficient (try it before you flame me, please), particularly since Soul Consumption stacks with Boil Blood, Asystole, and Cascading Darkness (215 damage per tick). I think it is a fair question whether the added damage and healing from Soul Consumption reduces downtime as much as a higher DPS weapon would, but anecdotally I find that I need to rest between fights less when using the epic than, say, Rocksmasher. Or, if you have aspirations of soloing mobs like hiero (very doable for a 60 SK without tons of ToV gear--hint: be creative, use some of those oft-ignored spells in your arsenal), who can slow you anyway, having the added Soul Consumption DPS (and heals) should not be shrugged off. For many of the same reasons, the epic can be extremely helpful for other solo camps, like frenzy in Velks, NG bugs in Seb, and king in LGuk.

For duoing: Particularly if you have some solid gear and a shaman buddy (even one without Torpor), Innoruuk's Curse is really nice. Frostreaver's Blessing (or spell regen) plus fungi plus Soul Consumption means that you are regenerating a not-insignificant amount of hp even without lifetapping. Assuming you have dex buff(s) on, you can very often be regenerating 75 hp per tick while standing, plus innate regen (50 hp per tick from Soul Consumption, 15 hp per tick from Fungi, and 10 hp per tick from Frostreaver's Blessing). Bottom line: if you want to be duoing things like 6-necks in WW, BM camp (including trash spiders) in Velks, Lodi, and emperor camp in Seb, Innoruuk's Curse at the very least is very, very helpful. As an aside, toss in BE Greaves and Gauntlets and Crown of Narandi, and you can single pull and tank all day while keeping your mana mostly full in this duo, but I digress.

Raids: Situationally useful. For a mob like Zlexak, for instance, Innoruuk's Curse does stick on him fairly often. If you're doing a good job of dodging the AOEs, wearing a fungi, and have either Frostreaver's Blessing or spell regen on, then Soul Consumption (plus a sprinkling of lifetaps, which also often land on him) will help you need fewer heals and stay up through the fight, while still doing some okay DPS. In many other situations, the +15 MR on the epic is also nice--yes, there are 1h/shield combos that can get you better MR (and, for some, a better ratio), but you still have a weapon that has a solid ratio and an appreciable load of stats at the same time.

So, my answer to the OP's question is that, yes, Innoruuk's Curse is worth it. Is it necessary? No. Does it give you significantly more meaningful choices and opportunities as a SK? Yes, absolutely.

As far as the knight DPS side-conversation, I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole.

Greevtox
Last edited by jabic; 10-25-2018 at 12:01 PM.

[Tunabros]

who kind of weird person doesn't want to complete their epic?

like its your epic dude

it looks cool

[wagorf]

who kind of weird person doesn't want to complete their epic?

like its your epic dude

it looks cool

and like someone said, this is server isn't going anywhere means you have the world's time - you don't even need to actively pursue and it should gradually come over time

[JackofSpade]

SK epic is not a game changer or really needed, but it certainly has some uses. More to the point if you play your SK with some amount of regularity then go for the epic! It looks badass and isn't particularly difficult to get. It's been a while but Iirc the only rare piece is soul leech from fear golems, the rest can be done with 1 group or less on your time schedule.

Edit: and there is the plane of hate piece but that drops from trash mobs, not too rare or can pay for MQ

[zati]

it's definitely a game changer.

1. its a lifetap over time you can proc n swap out
2. easy to swap in for bash if you are non-large race
3. coolest looking epic in game
4. jus fuking do the quest

[Crede]

Imagine thinking sk epic isn’t a big deal on a class that has the least efficient heal in the game and provides more value to a raid with its 50/tick self heal vs taking away healer mana that could go towards a class that actually matters.

[Ripqozko]

Imagine thinking sk epic isn’t a big deal on a class that has the least efficient heal in the game and provides more value to a raid with its 50/tick self heal vs taking away healer mana that could go towards a class that actually matters.

imagine thinking the SK shouldnt be pulling/FTEing in a raid environment instead of wasting time in camp hitting/tanking things.

[Snaggles]

The SK epic proc is 8.3dps and isn’t affected by haste. So the more raid buffed you are and less dependant on healing the less it shines compared to a 1.15+ NTOV weapon with built-in 41% haste and tons of hps. On the contrary, if torped or running around without haste or trying to track a reverse-kited npc the proc is a substantial amount of your dps. Every proc is like 1.5 mins of an extra fungi tunic.

This isn’t a situation of getting one weapon and having to delete all your rest. The IC shines for a casual player and holds up quite well into the raid world.

[Ennewi]

If only procs were able to be removed, at the cost of the actual weapon, and applied elsewhere. So the player could have two different proc effects on the same weapon or, if deemed OP, be able to replace the original proc with a more desirable one while still adhering to the original race/class restrictions.