Tank options

[mebeksis]

I played WAY back in the day (monk and cleric) up to Omens. Found out about p99 recently and giving it a go (hopefully) with my wife. We always play tank/healer combos, so she will most likely go cleric and I will be either pally or so depending on race she chooses.

Question I have is: I never played a tank type on eq, what stats are important? I would think stam/agi for hp/ac, right?

[username17]

Shadowknights and Paladins keep better aggro and have more utility than Warriors. But warriors are the #1 raid tank due to their disciplines.

If you have a cleric partner then that should assuage any woes you might have about going warrior.
It will be tough because of how gear dependent warriors are. But in the long run war/cleric will be very strong. You'll be able to make groups easily.

I just realized I didn't address stats. I'd go with whatever the wiki recommends.
Only solid rule is if your race starts with less than 75AGI spend points to get it to 75AGI.

[mebeksis]

Yeah, which one I choose will depend on what my wife chooses.

I was curious thought about how to gear a tank more than which class, but thanks for your opinion.

[Keebz]

Question I have is: I never played a tank type on eq, what stats are important? I would think stam/agi for hp/ac, right?

HP/STA/AC and resists down the road. AGI is mostly not worth it past 75 (there's a hefty AC penalty below 75). Caveats: if you're a warrior DEX is important as it increases your weapon proc rate by which you increase your aggro (more weapons procs == more aggro).

With just a Cleric, SK probably makes the strongest duo, while Warrior has a higher overall power level end game. That being said, Paladin/Cleric is fine too, if redundant in spells and low on DPS, it'd be great with an Enchanter to trio.

[Tewaz]

Warriors are the best tanks but they are also super wonky because taunt isn't the best threat mechanic. High end raid warriors are using a lot of items to get threat like midnight mallet, which is just a weird way to play in my opinion.

For the leveling experience, an SK would pair really well with a Cleric and would allow you guys to duo a lot of fun dungeons while you level because the SK can Feign Death pull and snare.

Paladin is a great tank, but is kind of a weird fit with a Cleric since their buffs overlap and they don't DPS as well as SK. Pally goes better with a Druid, which is a great duo. Ports, run speed buffs, damage shields, and snare are all very powerful.

[Samoht]

For tank class choice, you'll need to decide what your final goal is. If you want to be a raid tank, you're almost likely best off as a warrior. If you just want to do group content, then paladin or shadow knight would be better.

Warriors are most versatile of the three when it comes to raiding. They do really well at end game tanking, but can also be in the top 3 for melee DPS (Rogue > Monk > Warrior > Ranger > Paladin > SK > lolBardlol). Raids still have use for one or two paladins for tanking trash, and their buffs or heals (lay on hands), but shadow knights are a lot less useful as they provide no buffs or heals or dps and can only tank trash.

For raiding Warrior > Paladin > Shadow knight
For grouping Paladin > Shadowknight > Warrior

For stats, all three classes need STA for HP as their primary tanking stats. A paladin can raise wisdom if their goal is best in slot gear from raiding so that they have a larger mana pool, and a shadow knight can raise intellect if they have that same goal since STA is more prevalent on end game tanking items than WIS or INT.

CHA is also a sleeper stat for raiding because it affects probability of a cleric spell named divine intervention. CHA is also good for paladins in group content.

If you plan on raiding, there is basically no reason to worry about STR, DEX, or AGI as the people around you will be able to max those out with buffs.

If you are not raiding, you may need to increase STR if you choose a weaker race as plate armor is heavy, and you should expect to weigh over 100 (or 150 with loot and coin). As previously noted, some races start with less than 75 AGI, so you may also choose to make sure that requirement is set, but you will eventually get AGI from gear.

I have a halfling warrior and iksar shadowknight where I chose to max STA. They both have end game gear, but I still have to balance their inventory very carefully when not fully buffed to keep from being encumbered. The warrior can max STA easily with shaman buffs. The SK still needs a little help from gear upgrades.

[username17]

I'd like to second everything that Samoht said. Good info.

[Lune]

Pal or Shd / cleric without great gear would be agonizingly slow unless you pick up some lfg dps

[NotCaros]

Yeah for the duo you're describing I'd say you're choices are either:

Shadow Knight with Shaman. or. Paladin with Druid.


SK/Shm can:
Have the SK pull with Fd.
Have the SK snare mobs (when they run away from your slow dps).
Run faster with Shm sow.
Heal via sham spells and sk lifetaps.
Buff (haste) and debuff (slow)
Start in the same city if your the same race.
overall: more powerful at higher levels.

Pal/Dru can:
Both help pull with lull and harmony.
Have the Druid snare mobs (when they run away from your slow dps).
Run faster with Druid sow.
Heal via Druid and Paladin spells.
Port to places where the Paladin can use undead nukes.
Start in the same area (either Qeynos Hills or Greater Faydark).
overall: probably an easier leveling experience from 20-45 or something like that.

[Ananka]

I also agree that paladin/cleric combo has too much overlap of spells and not a lot of DPS. Changing to a warrior would add more DPS and you wouldn't lose out on many spells due to the overlap. Changing to a SK would add a FD/snare class for easy pulling. I went with a Dex heavy build for my SK for later level proc weapons. The healing procs are pretty nice on a handful of weapons from the mid 40's and up.

A different but maybe more powerful and fun combo might be a monk/shaman or sk/shaman route. With the monk/shaman you could choose to be good by playing barbarian/human or evil with iksar/most other shaman types. You'd end up with a healer/slower who has a nice pet for added DPS plus a really high DPS tank. Monk's make pretty good tanks, they just don't have click taunt or higher HP's. I'm thinking more as a duo or group rather then as a raider type by the way.

[Samoht]

Paladins can single pulls with lull and CC with root. SK does not have advantage in pulling over Paladin.

[Lune]

Paladins can single pulls with lull and CC with root. SK does not have advantage in pulling over Paladin.

paladin lull likes to get resisted and pulling is chaotic, you often end up with repops on the way back to camp, etc.

SK snare splitting and FD is invaluable and runs circles around paladin lull in places like seb

[Samoht]

A paladin just rooting mobs to CC them "runs circles" around SK snare + FD pulling.

SK can't do anything like that.

[ScottBerta]

Is she willing to play a shaman? That would help a tank duo greatly. The haste, slow and buffs alone make difference. Wouldn’t need much for heals. If your going to go cleric, I’d suggest Warrior and have cleric pull using pacify or go SK. But shaman should be first choice for her. If cleric do not go Paladin.

[Samoht]

If cleric do not go Paladin.

I don't understand this narrative. What's wrong with bringing two useful classes? Just because they have a couple buffs that overlap does not mean the paladin brings nothing.

Paladin is still better tank, DPS, CC, healer, buffer, puller than SK.

Only thing an SK can do that a paladin can't is pet track.

[Keebz]

Paladin is still better tank, DPS, CC, healer, buffer, puller than SK.

Only thing an SK can do that a paladin can't is pet track.

FD, CoS and having a pet opens up a totally different style of splitting. A paladin can split a few blues, but they can't do the type of difficult pulls an SK can. Can a paladin even pull fungi king?

SK's can also fear kite and generally do more DPS than Paladins (though you seem to be claiming otherwise).

Root on a tank is super awesome though, as are stun, FoL and DA, and I agree Paladin pulling is underrated for general EXP grinding.

[Danth]

I don't know why he thinks a paladin deals more damage than a shadow knight, but that's a very peculiar claim. Perhaps it might in some very specific circumstances? In general use the SK has more damage-oriented spells than the paladin has, plus also has the pet which is very useful as a damage source during the teens levels, then again at high levels (49 and especially 52+).

"Just root your overpulls" works great right up until it doesn't. Folks who do tough stuff eventually run into things that are too resistant for lull to work reliably on or for un-malo'd root to hold decently on (or sometimes, any root). That's where feign pulling comes into its own. Lull splitting is generally faster against the easy stuff.

I prefer the paladin when there's an enchanter around. Fussing with a pet is always a nuisance with a mezzer nearby, and the paladin's a better enchanter escort anyway. On the other hand, for duo with a shaman I'd usually rather have the shadow knight. With a cleric partner its easiest to pick whichever happens to be on similar faction for the sake of convenience.

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With respect to the original post: In this game era, you'll generally get satisfactory service out of a tank class by following the mantra of "Warrior if you want to main tank raids, knight otherwise."

Danth

[Lune]

Warrior dps is underrated. With a warrior tanking vs a knight you're basically getting a dps and tank in one slot, if the warr is geared