Bard dots after patch

[Charlysixb]

Currently having issues with dots after patch :( being a lvl 42 bard... tuyen's chant should do 46 dmg with drum,and now does 30 or real dmg.
Sometimes one and sometimes the other...
asking other bards atm if they have same problem...

[Kobias]

Moving targets now take 66% of their previous damage (34% less damage) while the mob is moving. This effects all dot capable classes.

On the patch notes :)

[starguitar33]

why even be a druid...

[Eyeke]

why even be a druid...

ports
melee class PLing

[Kika Maslyaka]

well make sure to root as druid... and may as well put it on hold till Velious...

[Sethius]

I can remember this affecting me on live on my druid when I was leveling him. It was annoying, not really game breaking but i complained anyway at the time, but when I started quad-kiting I didn't care anymore anyway. Never played a bard so not how bad this might affect them.

[Taryth]

Ok . . .if you ever have to patch, it's probably a good idea to review the patch notes. I know this idea may sound foreign and odd, but it helps prevent people from submitting useless bug reports, threads, and petitions.

This has been a friendly PSA brought to you by Maern.




An easy fix for bards is to add ~%30 more mobs to each kite. ;)

[Arentz Baboonheart]

bards got fudged, as well as many others
h8 it

[Sethius]

bards got fudged, as well as many others
h8 it

It may be a pain, but this server follows live, and this is the way it was on live...

[jerus]

Simply adds 30% of time onto your kite, so my normal 10ish mins run of gather + kite will be like 13 mins lol.

[Sethius]

Simply adds 30% of time onto your kite, so my normal 10ish mins run of gather + kite will be like 13 mins lol.

This sucks worse for the rest of us more than bards, since we have to wait 34% more time for the zone to respawn ;P

[Arentz Baboonheart]

jerus stop defending this!

[senna]

Very annoying..good thing this was patched in

[Sanelwen]

I guess wizard is the superior porting class now!

[johnny ringo]

I guess wizard is the superior porting class now!

always have been my friend

[Sethius]

always have been my friend

A twenty year old nerd trapped under Jesse Jane's bed can't blow his load as fast as a wizard... I don't think druids have much to worry about.

[Kasilis]

This sucks worse for the rest of us more than bards, since we have to wait 34% more time for the zone to respawn ;P

exactly was about to say this myself.. The other classes will suffer a double nerf.
1. Extra waiting time for respawn
2. inflicting 33% less dmg themselves..

Hahaha. Incoming big whine.

[jerus]

exactly was about to say this myself.. The other classes will suffer a double nerf.
1. Extra waiting time for respawn
2. inflicting 33% less dmg themselves..

Hahaha. Incoming big whine.

Don't forget the nerf to rains. But either way if it's that way classic it shoudl be that way here no?

[Sethius]

Don't forget the nerf to rains. But either way if it's that way classic it shoudl be that way here no?

Yes, imo, if it was that way in classic, it should be that way here without any doubt. The spirit of this server is to re-create classic, despite the flaws, because if you want a different game, there are many other options out there, including other EQ emu's...

So whenever something bugs me about P99, I just realize this is a recreation not a new game (as it should be), and think about that.

[oddphase]

Yes, imo, if it was that way in classic, it should be that way here without any doubt. The spirit of this server is to re-create classic, despite the flaws, because if you want a different game, there are many other options out there, including other EQ emu's...

So whenever something bugs me about P99, I just realize this is a recreation not a new game (as it should be), and think about that.

QFT

[Amelinda]

You guys crack me up. Thanks for keeping things classic though. People were so sad on live when this happened back in the day. (Including me! I played a bard!) So the QQ...it's nostalgic for me.

FYI - I continued playing my bard to level 60. Started a bard on two other servers and leveled THOSE to 60 as well. Obviously there IS leveling after being nerfed.

I was more sad about the nerf soon after release (I think it was June 99) that (A) prevented you from casting SoW and Selos in dungeons and (B) prevented Selos from overwriting root/snare. That trick saved me in dungeons so many times.

[Pescador]

Fix charm swarm kiting and I promise we won't complain about the dot nerf :)

[astuce999]

You guys crack me up. Thanks for keeping things classic though. People were so sad on live when this happened back in the day. (Including me! I played a bard!) So the QQ...it's nostalgic for me.

FYI - I continued playing my bard to level 60. Started a bard on two other servers and leveled THOSE to 60 as well. Obviously there IS leveling after being nerfed.

I was more sad about the nerf soon after release (I think it was June 99) that (A) prevented you from casting SoW and Selos in dungeons and (B) prevented Selos from overwriting root/snare. That trick saved me in dungeons so many times.

Actually selo's overwriting root wasn't nerfed until much much later, early velious (january 9th, 2001).

I'm still looking for proof that bards weren't affected by this dot nerf, so far I have found a couple of posts from everlore that talked about chant dots and how much damage they did when kiting, but nothing like the smoking gun I'm hoping for. My main weakness in searching is that I haven't been able to find an archive of the concert hall, Liquidated used to post all the patches and how it affected bards on a religious basis, and that would be a gold mine for here.

cheers

[Amelinda]

Fix charm swarm kiting and I promise we won't complain about the dot nerf :)

Fix it how?

I noticed while leveling my bard on P99 that you can no longer F1 F1 to target your pet. I have also noticed the pets don't retain hatred for the mob they used to hate.

First part seems to be a bug. Second part, while not classic, makes more sense than live.

Is that what you mean?

[Tiggles]

Fix it how?

I noticed while leveling my bard on P99 that you can no longer F1 F1 to target your pet. I have also noticed the pets don't retain hatred for the mob they used to hate.

First part seems to be a bug. Second part, while not classic, makes more sense than live.

Is that what you mean?

yes

[Amelinda]

Fix it how?

I noticed while leveling my bard on P99 that you can no longer F1 F1 to target your pet. I have also noticed the pets don't retain hatred for the mob they used to hate.

First part seems to be a bug. Second part, while not classic, makes more sense than live.

Is that what you mean?


yes

Are there bug posts about this? Submit bug posts and it should get fixed!!
I do not dev.

[Pescador]

yeah i was talking about the old school swarm kiting, where you'd pull a swam, charm one, let the swarm beat it down, then break charm right before it died

rinse repeat = exp every few seconds

I hear it's an issue with titanium though, so my comment was kind of tongue in cheek. Would be cool to see it working someday, though!

[jerus]

Actually selo's overwriting root wasn't nerfed until much much later, early velious (january 9th, 2001).

I'm still looking for proof that bards weren't affected by this dot nerf, so far I have found a couple of posts from everlore that talked about chant dots and how much damage they did when kiting, but nothing like the smoking gun I'm hoping for. My main weakness in searching is that I haven't been able to find an archive of the concert hall, Liquidated used to post all the patches and how it affected bards on a religious basis, and that would be a gold mine for here.

cheers

about a year or two ago TCH freaked out and all the info was lost basically or something like that. Make a post over there I think nuchaos and Savok had a little bit of it backed up they may have put that stuff somewhere, and there was also a view only EQDiva website IIRC.

And yeah, charm swarming was my favorite way to solo but doesn't seem to work here, agro is much higher on me and I can't always get the pet to get agro. On live if I charm a mob it wipes it's memory clean except for the charm agro after it breaks, so minimal agro on that mob, small enough so that I can charm a different mob and sick it on them and they instantly change agro to my pet and any mobs that have social agro do the same.

Also is charm duration correct? I don't remember there being a 18s max, I remembered like 30ish sec or soemthing like that.

[Stumpes]

well make sure to root as druid... and may as well put it on hold till Velious...

If this was live, we would only have to wait another 6 months for velious. But I am betting it will be closer to a year before it is released.

[Amelinda]

Also is charm duration correct? I don't remember there being a 18s max, I remembered like 30ish sec or soemthing like that.


Charm duration for bards was ALWAYS random. sometimes you got lucky and managed a 30s charm at level 60+ but most of the time that sucka would last like 3 or 4 tics and WHAM!

[Lazortag]

Charm duration for bards was ALWAYS random. sometimes you got lucky and managed a 30s charm at level 60+ but most of the time that sucka would last like 3 or 4 tics and WHAM!

This isn't really true is it? There's abundant proof showing that it should only last up to 12 seconds in kunark. When did the duration increase?

As for swarm kiting, I think the problem is actually pretty simple. When you body aggro a mob, you get a certain amount of aggro. When a charmed pet attacks a swarm of mobs, the pet gets a certain amount of aggro. The aggro generated from the former is less than that of the latter. I think this is an issue with distance aggro or something, or maybe social aggro, not being as high as it should (I don't know if swarm kiting worked on non-social mobs because I didn't play a Bard on live). This is been bug reported probably a hundred times. Not complaining about it or anything, but it has definitely been reported.

[astuce999]

the problem with swarm kiting is that the social aggro generated by the pet attacking a mob is transferred completely to the bard and doesn't stay on the pet, so instead of the swarm trying to kill your pet, it beelines for you.

iirc lvl 39 charm duration was raised to "up to" a minute either late velious or early luclin. It was initially 12 secs and was raised to 18 secs (I think) at some point during kunark.

I found a site that had some of the concert hall stuff but nothing that talks about the nerf for dots, either for, or against.

Logically, since bards can't root, but instead can cast while moving, it would make no sense that this nerf would affect them. Add the fact that bard dots already last only 18 seconds, the "balanced" part of the nerf of adding extra ticks to dots so that it would end up doing the same damage couldn't apply to bards even if it wanted to.

still looking,


cheers

[Twizzt]

Jerus, did you play a bard on bertox by chance?

[astuce999]

all right, found what I think is conclusive info.

on http://web.archive.org/web/20020922000639/http://eqdiva.com/

there's the post on "news" that says

Patch Message - 9/4/02
Espio Idsavant Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:55am CST
The latest news...

To discuss today's patch, goto this thread

Items in bold are ones that might be important to bards, lines in italics are my own comments, as usual. Todays patch is a big one, so get comphy...

The unannounced changes:
Every patch has 'em. Here are the changes that have been discovered so far that VI neglected to mention in the patch message:

- The level 39 Charm song can now last up to a full minute. Its manacost, however, has been increased as well. 'Swarm kiting' has now become quite difficult
- The level 15 Mez song is now a targetted mez song (it used to be AE). Unlike the rest of our mez songs, it does not have a MR debuff nor a knockback/forward
- This was kinda mentioned, but not quite clearly. The level of experience you get for low level blue cons (ie, like mobs in Sebilis, most of whom arent over 50, with the exception of the areas past the lower jail) has been drastically reduced.
- Bard icons no longer blink, again. I guess its too hard to make it an option, since it seems half the people like them and half dont.

~ Espio

so that's when charm was changed to a minute.

And I also found, unfortunately for me;

http://web.archive.org/web/20020802032910/http://www.eqdiva.com/

where specifically bolded it says:

-Removed the reduction in damage to Damage over Time spells when used on NPCs that are moving.
Yes, this means we do full damage now while kiting!

so that means that unlike I thought, bards were affected by the dot nerf.


cheers!

[Vidrata]

Pretty weak shit the dot damage reduction was removed in luclin, which means we'll never see it removed here.

[Lorastine]

Luclin could happen one day, cheer up bro.

[jerus]

Yeah i do play Jerus on bertox.

And yeah i understood charm is random duration just wanted confirmation that it wasn't longer duration yet. I knew in like luclin era i was swarming like crazy and was longer duration than the 12-18ish i get here, but that's fine. Agro is still wonky not sure if it's supposed to be like that, as others said mobs don't seem to assist pets on mobs.