Any point in playing a mage to level 60 if I'm not going to raid with it?

[Tunabros]

Thinking of starting a mage but it seems like a lot of their focus items later on

are all blocked by 7 day targets etc

Mages seem fun but I feel like they are too raid-oriented.

Would 50+ fall off if I don't have those elemental staffs?

-water staff from phinny
-air staff from PoS
-Earth staff from hate
-fire staff from hate

Thanks for reading

[Baler]

Mage is my absolute favorite raw plat farming class.

That's 10 years of P99 experience talking.
Magician Pets are no joke. Epic Mage Pet is OP.

___
not happy with that answer?
Okay bring your pals to you in the zone and jam with them. COTH.

[Vexenu]

Mages are extremely useful outside of raids. As Baler said, they are unmatched for raw plat farming (i.e. mowing through giants, guards, mid-level dungeons with your pet and filling up summoned 100% WR bags). They are also very capable XP soloers, and from 50-60 especially are one of the best classes to duo or trio with (throw a Mage in as a third wheel with some of the power duos like Ench/Clr or Shm/Monk and you can absolutely chainsaw through mobs). They are just a very low APM class, and you have to enjoy that playstyle. Some people find it boring, others find it relaxing. It depends what type of player you are. But the class itself is very capable throughout the game. Also, the Phinny water staff is realistically attainable by most Mages even if the Epic is out of reach. And the focused 60 water pet is very, very good DPS.

[Sabin76]

Also, the Air Staff isn't THAT hard to get. EoV is a pushover and spawns several times a day. And the Air Pet is no slouch post 50.

[Tunabros]

Also, the Air Staff isn't THAT hard to get. EoV is a pushover and spawns several times a day. And the Air Pet is no slouch post 50.

yeah Im just saying

currently I'm using my druid on raids and in the future maybe my shaman or some other

class

kinda want to try out a mage but not raid on it

[Snaggles]

I levelled a mage not to raid. A mindless farmer or group/duo dps. It’s simple, you can fill a backpack with malachite for 8p at the vendor, your nukes land hard on blue cons. Your most expensive spell is muzzle of mardu (2000p). Mala is like 200p.

Mala/malaise plus a Midnight Mallet is pretty great when your vendor unfocused 57+ pet is hitting for 70.

I have a 53 necro with a CoS; great class! Not to start a mage vs necro debate but look at the wiki page “pet guide”. Compare EoT to even the unfocused 57 earth pet. If you want overpowered pets look no further than a mage. The epic or the focus staffs are a carrot on a string for sure...but even the meh pets are still crazy.

[dcortez]

If you want overpowered pets look no further than a mage.


Necro makes the pet.

Pet makes the mage.

[Vaarsuvius]

Forget about the PoH Fire staff, it's completely useless as you will not want to use a fire pet post 50, and DDD is not focused by Staff of Elemental Mastery : Fire

Phinny can be taken down by a couple pet classes + cleric or 3 mages/necros, and he's a 12 hour repop.

Plane of Sky staff is not that hard to get, more so since it is now possible to MQ any PoS quest, and I can guarantee you a focused max level air pet is a stud.

Line forms behind me for the PoH Earth Staff... :(

Even non focused 57+ (Greater Vocaration: XXX) pets are awesome.
You'll get some nice nukes,
handy utility spells (useful debuffs, Mod Rods, WR bags, CotH of course),
kick ass pets that give you a very steady dps compared to other classes who only rely on their mana pool,
and as some already mentionned second to none green farming ability (think Droga goblins, HGs, spider silk, velium pieces/ blocks, etc.)

[Blingy]

Agree with just about everything in this thread....except Muzzle being the most expensive spell. CotH is still over 10k and highly desired by many groups.

[Snaggles]

Agree with just about everything in this thread....except Muzzle being the most expensive spell. CotH is still over 10k and highly desired by many groups.

Yea it’s only 300p on blue. Muzzle is 2k. I guess the OP is on green tho

[NPC]

Even without epic focus 49th level mage pets are powerful. The earth pet 49th level with low level foci can have 3600hps and only costs 200 mana to summon. At 50th level you are medding 20 mana tick. So you could summon one 49th level pet every min infinitely.
My 49th level earth pet with foci can solo Ice Giants and most mobs in KC. Get a Burnt Wood Staff and you're set.

[Tunabros]

nah was just saying that I don't want to raid with a mage just play it to 60 and have fun

on it

was wondering if I'll be cucking myself if I don't have those staffs

[Bardp1999]

"Raiding" on a mage consists of CoTHing and summoning mod rods and little more. I am not sure mages actually even do damage to the targets on most raids, and they sure as shit dont use pets.

[Jimjam]

"Raiding" on a mage consists of CoTHing and summoning mod rods and little more. I am not sure mages actually even do damage to the targets on most raids, and they sure as shit dont use pets.

Technically eye of zomm is a pet.

[Sabin76]

nah was just saying that I don't want to raid with a mage just play it to 60 and have fun

on it

was wondering if I'll be cucking myself if I don't have those staffs

Short answer: No, you will be fine without them.

[Snaggles]

Recently I did a triggered Faydedar. I have other spell damage turned off but expect a lvl 55 would resist spell procs anyways. Even mala'd Fay resisted every one of my Scars of Sigil. This was the result of a mid-range 60 water pet non-focused positioned well for some backstabbing:

60 water non-focused with Muzzle of Mardu : 43 dps (163 max backstab)
epic mage pet, not sure on Muzzle: 32 dps
lvl 53 necro rogue pet w/ muzle of mardu: 27dps


This was just a 30 second fight of a lvl 55 mob. Not exactly gospel. The epic pet is obviously a beast for tanking, soloing, etc. Just an example what literally no effort besides leveling a mage will get you. In other words, good enough to scrub around for lazy xp or fine steel. On lower level stuff (greens and blues) the pets seem to do up to 70's in DPS.

[loramin]

"Raiding" on a mage consists of CoTHing and summoning mod rods and little more. I am not sure mages actually even do damage to the targets on most raids, and they sure as shit dont use pets.

Heh, you clearly haven't been to a Kingdom raid (on Green). That guild uses an army of pets, at least for many encounters.

[Toxigen]

Why not take on something with a bit more challenge / depth?

[Baler]

Heh, you clearly haven't been to a Kingdom raid (on Green). That guild uses an army of pets, at least for many encounters.

It's a valid strat that is in some sense classic.
Stacking mages was one thing guilds use to do in classic.
It's not the meta but it works.

It really wasn't until blue p99 that this idea that mages suck got cemented into people's brains.

[Jimjam]

My experience on live people would flip out if you tried using a pet in raids. They could never give clear explanations why. Maybe I was too dumb to understand.

[Tunabros]

My experience on live people would flip out if you tried using a pet in raids. They could never give clear explanations why. Maybe I was too dumb to understand.

it fucks up aggro and its pretty annoying to manage and can get in the way etc

in classic, using pets to kill dragons or PoS bosses was top tier but it falls off quickly

[Sabin76]

My experience on live people would flip out if you tried using a pet in raids. They could never give clear explanations why. Maybe I was too dumb to understand.

I imagine it had more to do with pathing than anything else. I didn't raid on live with my mage, but I went into dungeons enough to learn to start casting gate whenever I'd turn around and my pet was missing. The difference between the mediocre mages and the top tier mages are that the top tier ones bother to make a "/pet back" macro in addition to their "/pet attack" macro. :P

I'm a mediocre mage, btw.

[Snaggles]

Yea in general pets on raids is not ideal. Nobody is going to remember the sustained 40 or whatever dps you are adding when that glimmer dispells everyone or it eats a fear and runs into battle.

Frankly so few people make an effort on push as it is, asking them to manage a pet in that way is just not going to happen.

[Vaarsuvius]

I stopped playing my mage on Live before Serpent Spine, but the AAs Suspend Minion & Pet Discipline gave a mage a very good control over their pet and the ability to hold a pet that was buffed to the gills on top of having a regular pet

/pet hold
/pet focus

Only real pet push trouble came with Host of the Elements.

Can't remember with what patch pets started to share their master's resists, but it was really useful and helped pet survivability VS raid target AoEs a lot

[tadkins]

I was wondering if there was much of a point to bringing more than one or two mages to a raid, given what I know their primary function is (CotHing and summoning mod rods).

Been debating between wizard and mage for the longest time. Wizards seem harder to play, without a pet to protect them and being limited in leveling to select quad kiting zones, but wizards at least seem stackable in a raid setting.

[Tethler]

I was wondering if there was much of a point to bringing more than one or two mages to a raid, given what I know their primary function is (CotHing and summoning mod rods).

Been debating between wizard and mage for the longest time. Wizards seem harder to play, without a pet to protect them and being limited in leveling to select quad kiting zones, but wizards at least seem stackable in a raid setting.

With 32k hp raid targets in classic and Kunark, wizards are really good. Velious really sees mob hps jump a lot. So wizards are still viable, but a lot less impactful than before. Melee dps that doesn't rely on a mana pool (plus velious weapon ratios) is gonna pull ahead for the long haul fights.

[tadkins]

With 32k hp raid targets in classic and Kunark, wizards are really good. Velious really sees mob hps jump a lot. So wizards are still viable, but a lot less impactful than before. Melee dps that doesn't rely on a mana pool (plus velious weapon ratios) is gonna pull ahead for the long haul fights.

That's good to hear. :) I ultimately did choose wizard because while it is a harder path that requires more investment (working on the plat to get a jboots MQ atm, and the Solist's wand I do have set me back a bit) it seems like it would be a more fun and more fufilling thing in the long haul. I can go into a raid, actually play to the proper fantasy and fire lightning bolts at that terrifying dragon, rather than stand back and poop out modrods.

Also who doesn't love ports?

Just needed to ask to reinforce that belief, because at times I do wonder if I wouldn't be better off as a mage instead.

[Vaarsuvius]

Definitely go wiz,
Mages suck ass even more now than they used to...

[tadkins]

Definitely go wiz,
Mages suck ass even more now than they used to...

My biggest concern was the usefulness of mages in a raid, particularly if multiple mages are around, and the utter buttclenching difficulty of their epic.

I do eventually want to raid one of these days and it seems like a raid wouldn't be hindered by stacking multiple wizards as opposed to having multiple mages. xD

[Blingy]

My experience on live people would flip out if you tried using a pet in raids. They could never give clear explanations why. Maybe I was too dumb to understand.

Gonna be long but some background is necessary as to why people use to flip out and probably still do when mages bring pets to raids.

Mage pets were used as main tanks during raids at one time. This pissed off actual tanks as their usefulness was basically very weak dps. The Sony dev's heard the complaints about how mage pets could hold aggro better than warriors so the mechanic was changed so mobs will attack any player over a pet.

So now all pets were relegated to dps and actual tanks were once again tanking mobs for raids. The holy trinity became one playstyle but a different style of playing also evolved; pet groups. As long as a pet group had some sort of healer the group would be very effective. My wife and I regularly played in these groups. Her first main was a druid but she also had a shaman and chanter. I mained a mage but also dabbled in necromancy. Most of our friends also played pet classes. All pet owners kept stacks of reagents to make new pets so if one died; meh. Any sort of healer could easily top off a caster if they got hit a few times.

However the same can't be said regarding a warrior/paladin/sk. The group game was very broken in this regard. Imagine a group of level 45-50 people in Skyfire armed with a druid or shaman that has greater healing. However there were also many tanks that asked to group with us; often we'd say yes. When a tank was invited of course things slowed way down due to game mechanics. Keep in mind at this stage in the game a lot of the general mechanics were still being figured out by the players; many tanks opted for max HP in lieu of AC. This is fine if the group has a CH cleric but sucks major monkeynuts for other healers. So once again tanks were pissed due to a lot of them either not getting groups or getting groups but abysmal xp rates. Many pet groups would of course opt for efficiency over all other aspects of the game in the race to 50/60/65/etc. which of course led to tanks getting pissed. This continued until druids and shaman were given better heals.

The raid game had other problems with pets. A lot of pet owners had very poor pet control. Pets also pushed mobs until Depths of Darkhollow was released. By now many people in the game had developed a pretty anti-pet stance. I first started raiding when Planes of Power was released. Our guild leader hated pets. One of our raid leaders openly bashed pet classes; other raid leader didn't bash us but didn't allow pets on raids. I moved to a different guild that allowed pets on raids but the membership would constantly use /gu as a "those dam pets are pushing the mob all over". One raid in particular pets were blamed for wiping the raid (claims he was pushed too far) when Fenin Ro was almost dead. I and all other pet classes decided to not summon pets for one week. You can probably guess that mobs were still pushed around but despite no pets out at the raid. Yet we were still blamed for mobs getting pushed.

Fast forward to today. A lot of the old animosity towards pets has simply been carried from one EQ generation to another. The Five Monkey Experiment (https://workingoutloud.com/blog/the-five-monkeys-experiment-with-a-new-lesson) comes to mind when thinking about this.

The above is simply my experience. I've raided everything from classic through Depths of Darkhollow then off and on through Call of the Forsaken when I finally came to p99. The above has been pretty consistent from Saryrn, Rodcet Nife, Bristlebane and Fironia Via servers.

[Vexenu]

My biggest concern was the usefulness of mages in a raid, particularly if multiple mages are around, and the utter buttclenching difficulty of their epic.

I do eventually want to raid one of these days and it seems like a raid wouldn't be hindered by stacking multiple wizards as opposed to having multiple mages. xD

Wizards are a great raiding class through the entirety of the P1999 timeline. Their nuking falls off a bit in Velious, but they gain massive utility and quality of life with their Translocates. A geared out 60 Epic Wiz with a Rend Robe is one of the most enviable toons in classic EQ: unparalleled burst damage on big targets, respectable sustained DPS with the clickie robe and the best ports in the game. Huge asset to any guild.

[tadkins]

Wizards are a great raiding class through the entirety of the P1999 timeline. Their nuking falls off a bit in Velious, but they gain massive utility and quality of life with their Translocates. A geared out 60 Epic Wiz with a Rend Robe is one of the most enviable toons in classic EQ: unparalleled burst damage on big targets, respectable sustained DPS with the clickie robe and the best ports in the game. Huge asset to any guild.

I appreciate that. Thank you. :) Knowing all of what awaits later on will help keep me going with my wizard who is level 18 right now.

[Duik]

Limited raids on live here. Tried both Naggy and Vox. War wife and me wiz were on dialup and we just stood there, ate AOE's and went LD. Had friend with mage so saw jack shit. Good times. Then later same friend had Sk in hate raid, was told in no uncertain terms Kabobtic was unwelcome, but i suppose sk pet is lower lvl again. Recall necs and mages had pets but i didnt really take much notice cuz busy shitting self trying to learn where to stand and check the joint out at same time. Pets in Kedge for Phinny was the done thing. But us dumbarse An Sli Amach guild tried him once with one mage, rng, dru, war, rog clr. Um dru (me) was a drowner death trying to cast EB on another char. Lmao or cry dont recall...
Dont recall any particular hate towards pets in my limited raids. Couple only just before velious dropped on live.

[derpcake2]

Gonna be long but some background is necessary as to why people use to flip out and probably still do when mages bring pets to raids.

Mage pets were used as main tanks during raids at one time. This pissed off actual tanks as their usefulness was basically very weak dps. The Sony dev's heard the complaints about how mage pets could hold aggro better than warriors so the mechanic was changed so mobs will attack any player over a pet.

So now all pets were relegated to dps and actual tanks were once again tanking mobs for raids. The holy trinity became one playstyle but a different style of playing also evolved; pet groups. As long as a pet group had some sort of healer the group would be very effective. My wife and I regularly played in these groups. Her first main was a druid but she also had a shaman and chanter. I mained a mage but also dabbled in necromancy. Most of our friends also played pet classes. All pet owners kept stacks of reagents to make new pets so if one died; meh. Any sort of healer could easily top off a caster if they got hit a few times.

However the same can't be said regarding a warrior/paladin/sk. The group game was very broken in this regard. Imagine a group of level 45-50 people in Skyfire armed with a druid or shaman that has greater healing. However there were also many tanks that asked to group with us; often we'd say yes. When a tank was invited of course things slowed way down due to game mechanics. Keep in mind at this stage in the game a lot of the general mechanics were still being figured out by the players; many tanks opted for max HP in lieu of AC. This is fine if the group has a CH cleric but sucks major monkeynuts for other healers. So once again tanks were pissed due to a lot of them either not getting groups or getting groups but abysmal xp rates. Many pet groups would of course opt for efficiency over all other aspects of the game in the race to 50/60/65/etc. which of course led to tanks getting pissed. This continued until druids and shaman were given better heals.

The raid game had other problems with pets. A lot of pet owners had very poor pet control. Pets also pushed mobs until Depths of Darkhollow was released. By now many people in the game had developed a pretty anti-pet stance. I first started raiding when Planes of Power was released. Our guild leader hated pets. One of our raid leaders openly bashed pet classes; other raid leader didn't bash us but didn't allow pets on raids. I moved to a different guild that allowed pets on raids but the membership would constantly use /gu as a "those dam pets are pushing the mob all over". One raid in particular pets were blamed for wiping the raid (claims he was pushed too far) when Fenin Ro was almost dead. I and all other pet classes decided to not summon pets for one week. You can probably guess that mobs were still pushed around but despite no pets out at the raid. Yet we were still blamed for mobs getting pushed.

Fast forward to today. A lot of the old animosity towards pets has simply been carried from one EQ generation to another. The Five Monkey Experiment (https://workingoutloud.com/blog/the-five-monkeys-experiment-with-a-new-lesson) comes to mind when thinking about this.

The above is simply my experience. I've raided everything from classic through Depths of Darkhollow then off and on through Call of the Forsaken when I finally came to p99. The above has been pretty consistent from Saryrn, Rodcet Nife, Bristlebane and Fironia Via servers.

Sounds like you raided with a bunch of muppets.

All you really need is a /pet get lost key and to watch where your pet is positioned / going. When any doubt, kill the pet.

[Snaggles]

Sounds like you raided with a bunch of muppets.

All you really need is a /pet get lost key and to watch where your pet is positioned / going. When any doubt, kill the pet.

There are cases where pets make sense and ones that don’t. Even if you can get a pet up and safety positioned you miss out on med ticks for rods, risk death and not being able to coth more people, etc.

As a mage seeing a pet in ToV is aggravating. They put out approximately half a knight’s dps on those raids. Just sit there, make rods and coth rogues. Queue up the YouTube. You don’t have to use all your classes tricks all the time if you have the maturity to pump the brakes.