Bard AE Kiting. Help

[Beaumontt]

Hello friends, I have read the thread on AE kiting which was very informative. Now i'm a level 35 bard as of right now and i have not done much AE kiting at all. The couple times i've attempted it overall it hasnt felt very smooth to me.

Was wondering what camera angle most use when AE kiting. Was also wondering if it is ok to get hit every once in awhile or if the pros can do it without being touched once. Is kiting 50 mobs really a serious thing or do most people do like 3-5 mobs at once?

My in game name is Beaumontt and i would very much appreciate any conversation i can get on AE kiting. Seems since the xp bonus went down a week ro so ago the groups have been hard to come by. I would very much like to learn to solo AE kite in hope that maybe i can level and keep up with my goals for EQ. :) Thank you for your time in reading this and even mroe if you can help with some information. :)

[Messianic]

You could have actually posted this in Server Chat - people in that forum are probably more helpful on this kind of subject :)

Most of the pros do a crapton of mobs. This means if you get hit once, you're likely going to get bashed (stunned) then beaten to death. You may want to post this again in Server Chat to get some of the people who play Bards as a main to chime in.

[machin576]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23132

This is the unofficial Bard Forums and has a lot of info on bard aoe kiting including locations, strategies, mobs, etc.


http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11506

This is another link in the server chat with good info.


http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Hmotzart%27s_Hmasterpiece_of_Hmass_AoE_Hmurder

This is Hmotzarts guide. He was the bomb.com at AoE kiting, but he quit. Alot of good info in it.

You can hit me up in game. My toon's name is Tewaz and I play like an hour a night and late night on the weekends. I am in SK and you can watch me if you want. I do both the mouse steer and keyboard method. Send me a tell.

Tewaz

[falkun]

I AE kited most of my way from L7-46. Prior to 18, I kept to fairly small kites of 5-15 mobs. Once I got to OT (20-29ish, then again 30-46), my kites got super crazy, often involving 50+ mobs.

When I was <18, I'd take a hit or so, however with the added range on the L18 DoT, I was able to do larger kites, which meant if I did get hit, I died, so I did entire kites without taking a hit. Its way too easy to get 1-rounded when 50 mobs catch up to you.

For most of my EQ (including kiting) play, I use the "behind the back" view. When you start the game, press F9 twice and you'll be zoomed in on the back of your helmet. I then use the camera buttons to position the camera so the bottom clip is slightly below my feet, and when kiting, I set it up so the right side of the screen will JUST barely show my kite group when they are in range of DoT. This is done by adjusting your camera until you see your kite group when they get DoTed and getting a feel for this range. I believe the zoom in/out is insert/delete, while the ctrl+page up/down will tilt the camera up/down. I think I use ctrl+middle mouse and drag to move the camera vertically. If I'm wrong, you can check the keybinding for the camera in the EQ Options menu.

35 is a prime level to AE kite! The Overthere was MADE for bards to kite.

1)On the south and west sides of the zone (OT is split by the canyon in the middle), gather up every cactus (succulent), chicken (cockatrice), and tiger (sabertooth tiger/tigress) that you see. Just run around with selos, sing a single target DoT song on something as you pass by, and continue on to the next target.
2) After you've gathered up so much stuff that you are spending more time looking for targets than finding targets, you probably have a nice large train behind you. Now go to your kite spot (I use the green area around the "A" on this map of OT (http://www.eqmacwiki.com/eqatlas/overtheremap.html)), and run big circles until your pack starts arriving. Run in circles to gather your pack, being careful to avoid getting hit by stragglers as they join the pack.
3) Once you have your pack all stacked up in one mob of monsters, then start slowly reducing the radius of your circles, twisting selos and your L18 dot until the pack is getting hit by the DoT. Rinse and repeat for 10min, you'll probably gain a level if you don't die.

With regards to step (3), different bards use different methods. I myself used a keyboard turn method. I would run with numlock on (auto-run) and then tap right turn with my left middle finger (right-turn was mapped to the "D" button), tapping D more often for a tighter circle and less often for a larger diameter circle. I would use my mouse to swap instruments between drum (selos) and horn (DoT) while also using my mouse to swap songs. Hmotzart, on the other hand, uses a different turning method which he explains in his guide that has already been linked. Learn the turning method that works for you and you will be a master kiter in no time.

[Eyeke]

I AE kited most of my way from L7-46. Prior to 18, I kept to fairly small kites of 5-15 mobs. Once I got to OT (20-29ish, then again 30-46), my kites got super crazy, often involving 50+ mobs.

When I was <18, I'd take a hit or so, however with the added range on the L18 DoT, I was able to do larger kites, which meant if I did get hit, I died, so I did entire kites without taking a hit. Its way too easy to get 1-rounded when 50 mobs catch up to you.

For most of my EQ (including kiting) play, I use the "behind the back" view. When you start the game, press F9 twice and you'll be zoomed in on the back of your helmet. I then use the camera buttons to position the camera so the bottom clip is slightly below my feet, and when kiting, I set it up so the right side of the screen will JUST barely show my kite group when they are in range of DoT. This is done by adjusting your camera until you see your kite group when they get DoTed and getting a feel for this range. I believe the zoom in/out is insert/delete, while the ctrl+page up/down will tilt the camera up/down. I think I use ctrl+middle mouse and drag to move the camera vertically. If I'm wrong, you can check the keybinding for the camera in the EQ Options menu.

35 is a prime level to AE kite! The Overthere was MADE for bards to kite.

1)On the south and west sides of the zone (OT is split by the canyon in the middle), gather up every cactus (succulent), chicken (cockatrice), and tiger (sabertooth tiger/tigress) that you see. Just run around with selos, sing a single target DoT song on something as you pass by, and continue on to the next target.
2) After you've gathered up so much stuff that you are spending more time looking for targets than finding targets, you probably have a nice large train behind you. Now go to your kite spot (I use the green area around the "A" on this map of OT (http://www.eqmacwiki.com/eqatlas/overtheremap.html)), and run big circles until your pack starts arriving. Run in circles to gather your pack, being careful to avoid getting hit by stragglers as they join the pack.
3) Once you have your pack all stacked up in one mob of monsters, then start slowly reducing the radius of your circles, twisting selos and your L18 dot until the pack is getting hit by the DoT. Rinse and repeat for 10min, you'll probably gain a level if you don't die.


Are you only using 18 DoT and not also trying to double stack 2DoT? the range on the level 2 one sucks but the kills are much faster that way.

maybe I need to go back to just the 18 and stop trying to get faster kills but rather safer kills.

[Kraftwerk]

I use a bit of Hmotzarts method and bit of keyboard turning. I usually strafe left with A+W while holding down right mouse to drive and when I dot them up I start to tap D while mouse driving to tighten circles. The best trick is targetting the highest con and when you see it's agro circle bottom right you'll know it's close enough for lvl 18 dot. I also use sound. When I hear them running behind me I know I'm in danger zone and any mistake can kill me. Eventually you will get a feel for lvl 18 and lv 2 dot ranges.

I use both lvl 2 and 18 dots but it is riskier for quicker kills. I have two macros for this, one casts lvl 18 dot then Selo's, other does lvl 2 dot then Selo's. I tap those while circling for worry free dotting. I keep Drums equipped for gathering portion, then only Horn for dotting otherwise I go too fast with Selos. Another option is SOW pots and no Selo's on dot portion only dot songs.

It takes learning and getting a feel for it. Aoe kiting involves making split second decisions based on what you feel. I started kiting 5-10 and now have no issues doing 40+ comfortably. It takes learning, I died a lot and still do occasionally, don't let it get you down.

[Eyeke]

It takes learning and getting a feel for it. Aoe kiting involves making split second decisions based on what you feel. I started kiting 5-10 and now have no issues doing 40+ comfortably. It takes learning, I died a lot and still do occasionally, don't let it get you down.
Do you switch to stringed for the 2DoT?

I usually don't drum for selos.. but I play selos, then 2DoT(stringed) then heal song then selos then switch instruments during selos then 18dot(horn) then bellow(switch instruments) then selos then repeat

works well for me

My biggest problem is going LD or pulling too many on my first pull of the day. I die almost every day because i start out pulling too many before I have my timing right for the day

protip: Pull 3 mobs or so for first pull and work your way up.. every day. I can go for hours without dying if I work myself up this way.

[machin576]

Oh, and everything Falkun says is golden wisdom. I made a thread about his golden wisdom, but it got deleted. Anyways...

I do like Kraft and two dot but don't switch instruments. Also, you can try running backwards at 35 with no drum and selo's, you will be slightly faster than the mobs, and you will hit the turn key occasionally and can easily judge the range if you like. Come to SK and practice and hang out!

Also, I always get hit when using my wireless connection, but using an ethernet cable allows me to do the 15+ mob kites.

[falkun]

I use a wireless connection exclusively. I have had LD issues, so when I'm doing a big kite I turn off DoT messages, which saves me a ton of spam damage and I seem to LD less (no evidence, just a feeling).

With regards to instrument swapping, I think I stopped swapping drum/horn sometime around 40; it can be done whenever, you just need to get a feel for your timing for turning. For me, at 35, my "timing" was established around being slightly overweight (114/105ish) with a MM battle drum equipped.

I did not use the L2 string-based DoT. It might be the wireless connection, or a crappy 5yo laptop, or whatever, but I died more often than I liked while trying to use the L2 DoT, so I decided I'd rather kill slower (but safer) than add the risk of the shorter-range L2 DoT. You can do whatever you feel comfortable with, and if you can twist in the L2 DoT, more power to you!

The best way to learn to AE kite as a bard is to get out and do it. No matter what I or any other bard types up about how to AE kite, until you get a feel for PBAE distance, you'll never be able to do it successfully. Even with the DoT nerf it is incredibly fast leveling (compared to grouping), so don't get discouraged if you die a lot or it takes you a while to learn your timing/get a feel for it. Honestly, its because of the chance of dieing while AE kiting that even at 49, I don't go out of my way to get a rez. 500pp and wasting an hour trying to find a rezzer is a lot less fun than just eating the rez and getting back to killing things. Granted, I won't turn down a rez, but I'm not going to let a death stop my fun.

[machin576]

I'm not going to let a death stop my fun.

Nothing but win.

[arh555]

The best way to learn to AE kite as a bard is to get out and do it. No matter what I or any other bard types up about how to AE kite, until you get a feel for PBAE distance, you'll never be able to do it successfully.

This.

[nukem419]

Rolled a bard the other day and i have been working on getting this down since dinging 5. The tap turn method didn't feel smooth enough for me and the mouse turn method was sketchy in small places: ended up mapping a logitech game pad too my mouse axis, right/ left click, straff, and hotbutton keys. Works 1000% better but I think my issue is now wifi lag. I cant believe people can do this with a keyboard and trains of 50+, thats insane! I hope i can pull that off someday.

[Visual]

I have heard it is much tougher here to aoe kite than live because of mobs hit boxes. If that is the case, why don't gms increase the range of bard dots to counter that?

Going to start doing this shit myself and want to limit my deaths :p

[nichomachean]

I have heard it is much tougher here to aoe kite than live because of mobs hit boxes. If that is the case, why don't gms increase the range of bard dots to counter that?

Going to start doing this shit myself and want to limit my deaths :p

I have been kiting off and on since level 2, and actually have fewer deaths from it than from grouping. Once you establish a rhythm and feel, it's really not terribly bad, even with the extended hitboxes on mobs. So long as you're not traveling in a straight line (other than diagonal strafing) you shouldn't get hit too often.

And I use both keyboard turning and strafing, depending on how tired my forearm muscles get. :P

[falkun]

I have heard it is much tougher here to aoe kite than live because of mobs hit boxes. If that is the case, why don't gms increase the range of bard dots to counter that?

For the same reason for unclassic pets: Pets are underpowered on P99, but they are still overpowered in the grand scheme of EQ. This wasn't the case back on Live due to ignorance, but 10+ years of experience has removed that ignorance. So, with what we know today, why make something OP more OP to bring it in line with "classic"?

[Visual]

because this is a classic server?

[SirAlvarex]

Man, you guys do it all complicated. I just turn on auto run, run around in circles, and use Selo's, Brass DoT, and string DoT with switched instruments. I just alternate Selo's with the DoTs, and it's usually all peachy. As long as I concentrate and don't make my circle too tight, I kill medium/slightly larger than medium mobs easily.

Since about 40 when Selo's and MM Drums became uber fast, I run around more of an oval than a circle. Works great for getting the String DoT in.

[Truth]

i always did scrolled back 3rd person, then strafed away from the pack of mobs while at same time using mouselook to do the circles


proof i am good bard and should listen to me:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9953/jujupwnage.jpg

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4192/mastah.jpg

[Lazortag]

I just strafe run away from mobs (without selo's or SoW) and edge closer when I want to land my dots. I do this in first person (usually scrolled back a bit). It's easier to do than circle kiting and reduces lag since the mobs aren't constantly on your screen.

[purest]

I just strafe run away from mobs (without selo's or SoW) and edge closer when I want to land my dots. I do this in first person (usually scrolled back a bit). It's easier to do than circle kiting and reduces lag since the mobs aren't constantly on your screen.

^ whatever you do, don't listen to this guy, probably the worst bard on the server and definitely the worst AE kiter (see link below for video evidence)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Lm6k2pvZQ

[purest]

signs of a terrible bard: AE kites in F9 mode and turns the keyboard instead of using the mouse and isnt smart enough to put instruments in hotbar and actually had to open/close backpacks

[Lazortag]

^ whatever you do, don't listen to this guy, probably the worst bard on the server and definitely the worst AE kiter (see link below for video evidence)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Lm6k2pvZQ

signs of a terrible bard: AE kites in F9 mode and turns the keyboard instead of using the mouse and isnt smart enough to put instruments in hotbar and actually had to open/close backpacks

Did you even read my post?:

I just strafe run away from mobs (without selo's or SoW) and edge closer when I want to land my dots. I do this in first person (usually scrolled back a bit). It's easier to do than circle kiting and reduces lag since the mobs aren't constantly on your screen.

It's clear that the video I posted was from a long time ago when I did not use the method I described in the post I quoted. I've mouse-turned/strafe-kited for a while now. As for hotkeys, it really makes no difference if you have your bag on your hotbar or your instruments on your hotbar. If you don't have three spaces for instruments or three hotkeys to spare, it's sufficient to just have one hotkey for your bag, and two for your primary/secondary slots. It makes really no difference; on a pvp server my setup is marginally better. I'm not sure why I'm responding to you anyway since you're illiterate, but I guess I didn't want anyone doubting my prowess as a Bard.

PS: Why do you feel the need to follow me around on this forum just to troll me? It just makes you look immature.

[Visual]

wtb someone aoe kite my bard to 60 so i dont have to do this :p

[purest]

Did you even read my post?:



It's clear that the video I posted was from a long time ago when I did not use the method I described in the post I quoted. I've mouse-turned/strafe-kited for a while now. As for hotkeys, it really makes no difference if you have your bag on your hotbar or your instruments on your hotbar. If you don't have three spaces for instruments or three hotkeys to spare, it's sufficient to just have one hotkey for your bag, and two for your primary/secondary slots. It makes really no difference; on a pvp server my setup is marginally better. I'm not sure why I'm responding to you anyway since you're illiterate, but I guess I didn't want anyone doubting my prowess as a Bard.

PS: Why do you feel the need to follow me around on this forum just to troll me? It just makes you look immature.


lol, didnt read but im going to surmise your emotional/butthurt state at my exposing you being absolutely terrible by how long-winded your response was

the guy keyboard turns in F9, doesnt twist in lvl 2 AE song, and is too stupid to put instruments in hotbar, and got regularly corpse camped on red99, pretty much all you need to know right there

[SirAlvarex]

He's trolling ya Lazortag.

I do just fine circle running with the keyboard. I'm always able to land both dots with instrument switching. If you guys find it easier to use a mouse, or to just run backwards, go for it :)

[Lulz Sect]

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/SNK79717.jpg

[Lazortag]

lol, didnt read but im going to surmise your emotional/butthurt state at my exposing you being absolutely terrible by how long-winded your response was

the guy keyboard turns in F9, doesnt twist in lvl 2 AE song, and is too stupid to put instruments in hotbar, and got regularly corpse camped on red99, pretty much all you need to know right there

I didn't twist in the level 2 ae because I was twisting in the level 48 ae (which at the time didn't stack with chords of dissonance; this has since been fixed). Shows what you know ;)