+/- 6 lvls & ffa zones pls

[Aenor]

I don't see P99 doing teams (although I rolled Aenor on VZ day 1 and race war was obviously the most successful EQ PvP ruleset). I more see P99 doing Rallos style since this will suit its existing blue player base (probable return of the PK vs. Anti dynamic and a nice, safe +/- 4 lvl spread for PvP.

So I would like to request one concession on behalf of the teams PvP players, assuming that you're not considering all out ffa with no level restrictions (which I would prefer). Please make it a +/- 6 lvl spread. This is a compromise between +/- 4 (rallos) and 8 (vallon/tallon).

Also, please consider making any zone where newbies would have no business going ffa with no level restrictions. That way we can avoid out of range healing in contested zones, as well as lvl 1 halfling rogue spies. If it's classic era, and you zone into LGuk or Sol B, you should have no protection.

[fiegi]

Request denied.

[Aenor]

Another possible compromise would be to create an NPC with a dialogue that allows you to join a newbie guild based in each starting city. I think a big part of the success of race was was that you didn't have to worry about logging in at lvl 1 and getting attacked by lvl 4s from your own starting city.

The race war provided context to the conflict, but also created the issue of immortal healers. By giving players the option to join a starting guild in their home city, they gain a measure of protection starting off without the need to code teams and deal with all the issues this creates. Those who want to be able to attack other players from their starting city have that option as well by simply not joining the starting guild.

[wehrmacht]

Dude just please kill yourself. You just suggested the worst possible rule set you can have for server population. It would have even less people than TZVZ. Nobody wants to play on a server of 50 people.

Let me explain to you idiots for the 500th time why item loot doesn't work:

1) naked casters can easily kill people while melees can't

2) there is no drop equipment all over the place which defeats the entire purpose of your horrible rule set

Most people do not want a level limit for PvP either regardless of if they want teams or FFA. If you want item loot, it would have to be Altergate style item loot where you can loot one non-equipped item.

[Aenor]

If you can pull yourself away from the gay old man porn long enough to actually read my post, you will see that nowhere does it mention item loot.

[Foxx]

lol i gotta agree with aenor, he said RZ style ruleset. he went on to mention he was talking about the +- 4 levels, and no-team setting.

he does not mention item loot anywhere. wormak fails again lolol

[wehrmacht]

If you can pull yourself away from the gay old man porn long enough to actually read my post, you will see that nowhere does it mention item loot.

You said you wanted RZ style PvP which means item loot. There's no reason to have level limits on PvP unless you have item loot which is why I posted that.

Level limits + no item loot is just lol stupid.

[Haul]

I'd imagine it will be +/- 4 with ffa because thats what was done for Zek merger, and thats what worked. I could care less if its item loot or not, though I'd prefer item loot.

[Doors]

Fuck item loot its just going to push people off the server. The majority of the playerbase will be blues who won't tolerate losing their pixels.

[JayDee]

8 levels is perfect. Melees who ding 20/30 and get new dmg caps can run around the world pvping freely without having to worry about casters with 29/39 spells targeting. It's also broad enough that you can pretty much be assured to see people within your range leveling in your zone.

And no item loot. Promotes naked caster griefing and it super defensive strategy and bagging gear.

[Darwoth]

level limits are stupid and bring a large host of problems such as low level trainers, spies, healers etc, these are all things that occured on RZ and were universally despised by the entire server and is why everyone that wasnt a pvp lite carebear switched to sullon when it came out.

you dont need to get a reward (if there are any) for killing outside a given range, however being unable to kill them at all will shit things up and i likely wouldnt even bother with such a server, even wow isnt that lame.

[JayDee]

level limits are stupid

Yeah, having level 60s farming newbs is a much wiser choice.

That will be REAL good for the population

[Aenor]

To quote myself from my first post on this forum:

"Please do not use the term FFA unless you are referring a server where anybody can attack anybody at any time, i.e. Vanguard PvP. If by "FFA" you mean "Bluebie PK vs. Anti 4 lvl spread Rallos PvP," please re-title this thread appropriately."

I prefer no level limit, no PvP restrictions. This was the case in Vanguard where my guild, Xanit K'Ven, dominated the server in all aspects.

[JayDee]

Ah, the same Vanguard where I rolled a bard then could invis bug and kill everyone with OP ranged while nobody could target me.

Game is doing well now too. If you definition of doing well is flatlining. Congrats at winning that game.

[Swish]

Why not make it an ironman server? Death means permanent death... :D

[Swish]

Ah, the same Vanguard where I rolled a bard then could invis bug and kill everyone with OP ranged while nobody could target me.

Game is doing well now too. If you definition of doing well is flatlining. Congrats at winning that game.

Was going great til Sony invested and shelved it to try and preserve EQ2, which it would have clearly surpassed.

[Aenor]

Yeah it was pretty much lack of content that killed the game. Vanguard was a blast. But it took them a year to release the first raid zone. After that content was done everybody quit.

[wehrmacht]

I'd imagine it will be +/- 4 with ffa because thats what was done for Zek merger

4 level difference FFA is a fucking blue server

You would have multiple groups fighting in karnors or sebillis that wouldn't even be able to attack each other. It's a total joke to try and claim that's a PvP server. Even if you raise the level limit, it's still terrible.

There are only 2 valid choices:

1) Hardcoded teams and no other rules (if you want good population)

2) FFA and no other rules (if you want low population)

[Foxx]

yes wormak always has the greatest ideas, we should absolutely listen to him

[Doors]

Some of you might be retarded. No level restrictions on an FFA server, yeah, that will last about a week.

Idiots would just sit on newbie starting areas and grief people right back to p99. It's becoming more and more obvious that the majority of people on these boards want to just shit on people and grief them even if they can only do it for a limited time.

These fucking idiots suggesting this shit should be instantly ignored by everyone here including the staff because the goal should be setting up a decent red server that attempts to have some balance. Not a come home from work get down to my moms basement and grief people 30 levels below me because I hate my life server.

For like the 10th time if you want a successful server its probably going to have to be team based. And if it did end up FFA you couldn't have shit like item loot and no level limit on PKs.

[linkmarem]

good job. i want new post mate. ;)

[Jigga]

Some of the comments that i have seen in irc from devs, makes its hard to not think they are going to make it FFA with lvl limit. Really no point in debating the Devs havent asked us for our input at all. I doubt they read these forums and I highly doubt they read any post wehrmacht makes

[wehrmacht]

Some of the comments that i have seen in irc from devs, makes its hard to not think they are going to make it FFA with lvl limit. Really no point in debating the Devs havent asked us for our input at all. I doubt they read these forums and I highly doubt they read any post wehrmacht makes

Might as well not even make the server it if it's FFA + level limit.

FFA caters to mindless RandomPK players who want sandbox PvP and being able to attack anything moving on their screen. Level limits cater to people who want WoW style pseudo-PvP with training wheels on it. Combine the two and you end up with a rule set that really caters to no demographic at all, and thus a server that isn't fun to play on.

Poor PvP environment with invulnerable healers and such due to level limits plus lower population due to FFA instead of teams = ultimate recipe for failure.

[Doors]

The only reason wehrm wants no level limit is so he can sit on players 20 levels below him for PKs. If he had to fight within a +/- 4 level range he'd probably rage quit because the playing field would be even.

Both team and ffa have drawbacks. Item loot would just chase the playerbase away, I thought garage box loot system was good.

[wehrmacht]

A 40+ necro or druid can easily catch a high level already fighting NPC's and kill them with dots/lifetaps. A low level melee can do the same to high level casters. Go back to WoW if you want "fair" arena fights where everyone is equal level and /bows before dueling each other.

It's called a PvP server because you have to be aware of your surroundings. You're not supposed to be able to do /who all then say, "Ok, I'm level 60 and there's just 2 level 45's in zone with me, I can go AFK and cook a hamburger and not worry about anyone killing me".

[Darwoth]

Yeah, having level 60s farming newbs is a much wiser choice.

That will be REAL good for the population


level 60s generally have better shit to do than waste their time killing some newb over and over, and by the time someone is level 60 all the newbs will be alts that will be choosing to stay there and get killed if such a situation arises.


essentially what i am trying to say is that you are fucking retarded.

[Darwoth]

This was the case in Vanguard where my guild, Xanit K'Ven, dominated the server in all aspects.


must be talking about the get killed all the time and take 40 people to go hide out in a keyed dungeon aspect.

[Kringe]

No level limit would be retarded.... What needs to happen is FFA +8-8 or so with zones that are highly sought after that have minimum level requirements (46 or so and open pvp in those zones with no level limit between them and the 60s), IE: Sebilis, Karnors, (of course this is Kunark) Im not sure what zones we would classify in classic.

An across the board no level limit would just constitute in major guilds binding in places like Neriak B, Halas wherever, and killing anyone new to the population for shits and giggles, and to see their l33t Yellow text globally.

[wehrmacht]

This is pretty ironic that all these people pretending to be "hardcore" by voting for FFA want these bullshit level limits in place that turn it into some pansy blue server.

The level limits they suggest don't even make sense. A level 45-50 caster or melee can kill a level 60. The level 60 isn't invulnerable. There's no reason to prohibit them from attacking each other. If it goes team based, there's no reason to have level limits there either.

http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sullivan_man_up.jpg

[Doors]

Thats a sick pic bro, but you're dense. Hardcore pvpers from past boxes don't care if theres a level limit on PKs. The level limit is needed to keep casuals from quitting if some douche camps them thats like 30 levels higher than they are.

[Aenor]

must be talking about the get killed all the time and take 40 people to go hide out in a keyed dungeon aspect.

Let me guess... Ebonlore?

[wehrmacht]

The level limit is needed to keep casuals from quitting if some douche camps them thats like 30 levels higher than they are.

That's called natural selection if you're too dumb to run away from them

[Doors]

Bro weren't you just complaining about how annoying it is to find people to fight on a pvp box if velious is released with all the huge empty zones? It's not going to be any better with a playerbase of 50 people whenever you sit in qeynos noobie yard for PKs and chase the casuals off.

Of course you'll need to be careful if you do that, druids around there get root pretty early.

[Jigga]

wehr you going to play if its ffa with lvl limit?

[JayDee]

level 60s generally have better shit to do than waste their time killing some newb over and over

lolololololol

How fucking dumb can you be. Rest assured, if there is no level restrictions on pvp, there will always be one bad seed that will sit their griefing newbs.

You have exposed yourself as someone who never experienced live pvp. When I started on TZ the first thing I saw in steamfont was a level 9 ranger (geared well enough to have a high level main) mowing through newbs.

Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and don't ever express your opinion again.

[Haul]

yes wormak always has the greatest ideas, we should absolutely listen to him

rofl

[Darwoth]

Let me guess... Ebonlore?

if you don't know who i was on vanguard you didn't play much vanguard.


http://www.scarybadguys.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/aenor.JPG

http://www.scarybadguys.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/aenor2.JPG


these are probably the only two times i ever saw you in game actually.

[Darwoth]

lolololololol

How fucking dumb can you be. Rest assured, if there is no level restrictions on pvp, there will always be one bad seed that will sit their griefing newbs.

You have exposed yourself as someone who never experienced live pvp. When I started on TZ the first thing I saw in steamfont was a level 9 ranger (geared well enough to have a high level main) mowing through newbs.

Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and don't ever express your opinion again.

you remain a moron.

1> the one bad seed does not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of people have better shit to do than kill newbs all day. indeed on sullon zek, where there were no level limits this was the case. on rallos zek where there were level limits the people who wanted to kill newbs did so via supertwinks. "LOL FUCKING LEVEL 500 ******S ARE GOING TO KILL THE WORLD DUDE IT WILL BE TOTAL FUCKING ANARCHY!!!!!!!!" is a classic decade old argument from those who do not know what their talking about due to not having played it.

2> i am sure this server will not have item loot or xp death (unfortunately) upon a dirtnap, as such who really gives a shit if the poor hapless newb gets killed a few times while he levels, boo fucking hoo. if there are tangible rewards/penalties make them null when killing a newb, pretty simple.

even world of crycraft does not have level limits, in fact everquest is the only game out of the dozens i've played that did have one, and it was a shitty failed system hence the reason no other games did and even EQ scrapped the idea for their best server (sullon)

3> a level limit is the single largest detriment to pvp one can have in their ruleset, out of range healers, out of range trainers, spies, evac mules and so on. it is shit, the fact your stupid ass does not know this means it is indeed you that didn't play.



i experienced both options, the one your clamoring for is as retarded as you are.

[mimixownzall]

Yeah, having level 60s farming newbs is a much wiser choice.

That will be REAL good for the population

"Farming newbs" makes it sound like there is actually some reward for killing them. There isn't. Yeah, there are some killings, but generally you don't see people spending hours griefing newbs. Of course there will be that one douchebag gaying it up, but a simple tell to a high level will take care of that problem. This wasn't a problem on SZ, as much as people like to believe it.

[Envious]

Mimixownzall, sometimes I space out and watch your sig for a few minutes before having to snap out of it.

Less hypnotic sig please. What is this thread about?

[mimixownzall]

Some of the comments that i have seen in irc from devs, makes its hard to not think they are going to make it FFA with lvl limit. Really no point in debating the Devs havent asked us for our input at all. I doubt they read these forums and I highly doubt they read any post wehrmacht makes

Please elaborate on this. What type of comments have you heard and from whom?

[Aenor]

if you don't know who i was on vanguard you didn't play much vanguard.

Scary bad guys a wholly insignificant guild... No wonder I never heard of you. Grats on ganking me in a mid-level hunting area. You say the raid zone was keyed as if it was ToV and everybody didn't have keys. Sorry if your guild didn't have the numers to clear trash mobs and contest the content we were server-firsting.

[Darwoth]

Scary bad guys a wholly insignificant guild... No wonder I never heard of you. Grats on ganking me in a mid-level hunting area. You say the raid zone was keyed as if it was ToV and everybody didn't have keys. Sorry if your guild didn't have the numers to clear trash mobs and contest the content we were server-firsting.


i never fail to be amused by carebears in zerg guilds, every last one of them is a no name and as such clump together in massive gatherings just in order to achieve some kind of mundane pve accomplishment, then comes out the "yeah? well WE killed the dragon of nobodygivesafuck before that other zerg guild!"

i on the other hand scammed, killed and owned on a daily basis for two years held 80% of the total infamy on the server when i quit and was a household name, by myself.

our 3 man guild had our guildhall up around the same time if not before your zerg guild did, i killed one of your officers constantly when he logged on for a month until he gave me a caravel others would pay me to be left alone on qualia so they could craft.



as for you, look at the killshots. you are the same level i am what difference does it make what zone it happened in?

nice 3 infamy, that means you were worth 30 at the time talk about insignificance on a pvp server, lol new characters start with 100.


http://www.scarybadguys.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/iwinvanguard.JPG

[mimixownzall]

lolololololol

How fucking dumb can you be. Rest assured, if there is no level restrictions on pvp, there will always be one bad seed that will sit their griefing newbs.

You have exposed yourself as someone who never experienced live pvp. When I started on TZ the first thing I saw in steamfont was a level 9 ranger (geared well enough to have a high level main) mowing through newbs.

Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and don't ever express your opinion again.

You are fucking stupid. He said 'generally' meaning, as a whole as in most, but not all.

And a level 9 is a far cry from a level 60 which is what he was talking about.

[Pudge]

lolololololol

How fucking dumb can you be. Rest assured, if there is no level restrictions on pvp, there will always be one bad seed that will sit their griefing newbs.

You have exposed yourself as someone who never experienced live pvp. When I started on TZ the first thing I saw in steamfont was a level 9 ranger (geared well enough to have a high level main) mowing through newbs.

Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and don't ever express your opinion again.

lol. i remember playing sullon when it first opened, me and my bro both enchanters. we leveled fast, since it was no-rules teams, we would leach exp off full groups in crushbone by expertly timing a mem-blur and nuke at the end of its life.

about 10 minutes after getting gravity flux (34? 39?), we were in steamfont, sneaking up on groups of level 6's by the windmills, flinging their little bodies into the air and laughing at the graphic of them helplessly flailing around, and then when they splatted on the ground they'd pop up a second and go flat again. this is what wehrmacht wants on the new server i believe

[Pudge]

Mimixownzall, sometimes I space out and watch your sig for a few minutes before having to snap out of it.

Less hypnotic sig please. What is this thread about?

ya really mimi you have to get rid of that thing it's seriously distracting. flashing lights and colors and ass too much in 1 sig

[wehrmacht]

on rallos zek where there were level limits the people who wanted to kill newbs did so via supertwinks.

And if there were level limits on P99 PvP server so you couldn't attack noobs, people would just train them with NPC's for fun. The noobs are gonna be eating shit no matter what.

Obviously no point in destroying high level PvP with immortal healers and trainers just for the sake of some retarded level 5's.



even world of crycraft does not have level limits

This pretty much says it all. People arguing for level limits are indeed lower than WoW players.

[jilena]

I'm not sure what happened in later days on VG as I got bored and quit shortly after Bladesworn broke up but I remember seeing Scary Bad Guys out PvPing on the regular and don't remember Xanit dominating any aspect of the server up to that point. Of course that was pre raiding. *shrug*

[JayDee]

about 10 minutes after getting gravity flux (34? 39?), we were in steamfont, sneaking up on groups of level 6's by the windmills, flinging their little bodies into the air and laughing at the graphic of them helplessly flailing around, and then when they splatted on the ground they'd pop up a second and go flat again. this is what wehrmacht wants on the new server i believe

Yup

Fortunately, it's really not even up for debate. There will be level restrictions on pvp on red99 because the devs know what is best for the server.

The teams vs. FFA discussion is an interesting one, however. FFA was essential for a small community like we had on vztz, but I am not sure if it's the best route for this new server considering it will be without a doubt have a much larger pool of players. Friendships are forged when defending zones and that is much easier when you have defined hard coded opponents.

[JayDee]

And a level 9 is a far cry from a level 60 which is what he was talking about.

Read what I said over & over again until it starts to make sense. Takes some people longer than others. I am not judging you.

[Macken]

Yup

Fortunately, it's really not even up for debate. There will be level restrictions on pvp on red99 because the devs know what is best for the server.

These said devs.... are some of them the same ones that worked on VZTZ?

[jilena]

Level restrictions introduces equally lame issues. Twinked to shit lowbies unkillable by anyone their own level, out of range healers in both directions. Any scenario you can come up with of level 60s raping level 1's I can come up with an equally ridiculous scenario involving level 4s doing just the same. Or mid level people twinked to shit with high level friends healing and buffing them while they slaughter, etc. Or high levels being healed nonstop by out of range friends.

Best compromise imo is similar to Sullon style where anyone can kill anyone (I say do away with the level 5 thing unless maybe it's newbie start area only) but whatever penalty there is (be it gold loss, item loss, exp loss, vagina loss, whatever) is only assessed within a level range.

Teams vs FFA both have their downsides but I'd be cool with either. *shrug*

[wehrmacht]

If I'm playing a medieval killing simulator, I don't want my immersion destroyed by some ridiculous PvP level caps which nancy boy games like WoW don't even implement in open world PvP.

[Aenor]

Every last one of them is a no name and as such clump together in massive gatherings just in order to achieve some kind of mundane pve accomplishment.

Our 3 man guild had our guildhall up around the same time if not before your zerg guild did.

This is really entertaining keep it coming. In the same breath that you reduce us to PvE carebears, you brag about your guild hall! Was it decorated with posies and puppy dogs?!

No name? XK had multiple botb winners from BOTH old school Vallon Zek AND Vanguard. Who are you again? Fraid I don't remember you at all because you were sitting around in lowbie zones waiting to jump people on mobs and pad your statistical infamy. Seriously dude, you got self esteem issues... go outside.

Don't remember Xanit dominating any aspect of the server up to that point. Of course that was pre raiding. *shrug*

Did you quit before the server merge? Because XK was an insignificant guild on the two team server until the servers merged and it absorbed Ascendency.

[Darwoth]

i did not decorate it with posies and puppy dogs, but my wife did the best she could with snowmen and christmas trees, my guildhall is a bragworthy accomplishment because it was built with 80% scammed materials using the pro bono services of several crafters that did not want to be killed, so you see my guildhall was a pvp accomplishment, yours was 3 months of 80 people beating rocks all day.

you couldn't pad your infamy ganking newbies since they would give you 1 infamy point, i don't expect you to know that however since you were worth a whopping 3 points, which is about the same as said hapless lowbies, the primary difference being they would likely put up a more challenging fight.

i have shitcanned each and every of xanits botb winners multiple times, so i guess they werent that impressive. as a minor aside i won my class botb until shitnugget GM whatshisname who had been on my nuts for two years for griefing his friends made me fight the final round over again with no phenom points where i was slightly edged out by the fully charged opponent i had killed 2 dozen times previously and has just defeated in around 2.5 seconds.

in any case be comfortable in the knowledge that the guy who used you and your guild as target practice every day is insignificant and you, the faceless cog in the wheel of mediocrity "dominated every aspect of the game" (lol)


edit: almost forgot, i stole their guildbank in darkfall to

[Knuckle]

Have PVP kick in at level 6. that gives the newbies some time to get grounded.

+/- 10 levels PVP.

gg.

also. FFA in all velious zones, and dungeons.

[Aenor]

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a450/anarion77/fat_guy.jpg?t=1306610659

[Darwoth]

should of used the classic fat guy picture that way you could be just a little more cliche you dominator of all aspects you.

[Doors]

Fuck off bot.

[lazy48th]

I remember Darwoth very well. How could you not know who he was when he always announced his pvp kills in Qualia chat. I found them very amusing. :)

[bakkily]

lol for doors to show how much he wishes for epicness, he puts rambo on his profile, lol

[Doors]

Yeah I watched like every rambo movie today. Then I found a better avatar that gives me a boner everytime I look at it.

[Rushmore]

Have PVP kick in at level 6. that gives the newbies some time to get grounded.

+/- 10 levels PVP.

gg.

also. FFA in all velious zones, and dungeons.

This is well played. I like this idea.