monk ac vs hp

[dcortez]

What's the general rule of thumb of ac vs hp formula for a monk?

Thanks

[Croco]

I personally don't pay attention to my ac. It's generally at or close to 1100 and I go max hps basically all the time. The more hps you have the better your mends will be and that's huge for soloing, grouping, and raiding. Raid buffed I'm within a few hps either way of 4800 so that's a free 1200hp heal every 6 minutes. For fights when you have to deal with an ae that's a huge help on a healer's mana bar.

[Tsunami21k]

Depends on what your goals are. I know a monk with 1700 ac buffed. He can tank HoT better than my SK. For leveling etc, try to have a good mix of both.

[dcortez]

Ideally I'd like to duo with a shaman.

Back in the "old days", I think it was said 1ac = 6hp for warriors.

[Croco]

I usually go by 1ac = 5hp for a monk but even that is too high for me. For instance I would rather wear gatorscale sleeves 6ac / 15hp vs azure 12ac as a noob monk because hp scales better because of mend.

That 1700 ac monk might take hits better than an SK but I highly doubt he can "tank" better because that requires you to be able to gain/keep agro, and no monk is going to beat an SK at snapping and holding agro. I don't care what weapons he's using.

[Solist]

nevermind.

[Jimjam]

I usually go by 1ac = 5hp for a monk but even that is too high for me. For instance I would rather wear gatorscale sleeves 6ac / 15hp vs azure 12ac as a noob monk because hp scales better because of mend.

That 1700 ac monk might take hits better than an SK but I highly doubt he can "tank" better because that requires you to be able to gain/keep agro, and no monk is going to beat an SK at snapping and holding agro. I don't care what weapons he's using.

Devil’s advocate, if the monk is meant to be tanking, why would the SK be spamming aggro?

In context of original question, I think a monk will want to keep adding AC until they can mitigate decently or reach a point of diminished returns, and then focus on HP. It’s hard to provide specifics as the answer changes on circumstances.

[Xenmir]

Devil’s advocate, if the monk is meant to be tanking, why would the SK be spamming aggro?

In context of original question, I think a monk will want to keep adding AC until they can mitigate decently or reach a point of diminished returns, and then focus on HP. It’s hard to provide specifics as the answer changes on circumstances.

I think Croco isn't suggesting a monk going head to head with an SK who is spamming aggro spells, rather more that monk doesn't fully substitute for an SK in an average tanking scenario because they have fewer tools for grabbing aggro on adds or when a wizard nukes too early, etc.

[Tsunami21k]

Devil’s advocate, if the monk is meant to be tanking, why would the SK be spamming aggro?

Peeling mobs off enchanters =p

better to have a dead undergeared SK than dead chanters.

[Naethyn]

The formula is HP > AC.

[Jimjam]

Just checked my character, 174hp:102AC so you are correct.

[Snaggles]

Kind of have to take it on a case by case basis. There might be a good argument. Rarely does something have just a ton of AC with no other stats. There are a few high AC and sv magic items in ToV. In that case it may be worth it (Fesh’s Amulet of the Storm, just an example, not advocating for this).

Hps are ideal. Pullers value sv magic. AC is going to come along with the rest but wouldn’t be my goal by itself.

[Jimjam]

Just checked my character, 174hp:102AC so you are correct.

Okay, this was a bit of a joke post about my total hp.ac on the baby sk I was playing.

I took a look at my junk geared 52 monk to see what stats I had picked for my equipment.

125 worn AC
370 worn HP
122 HP from worn STA
53 worn Sv Magic

Looks like I've gone for about 4HP:1AC.

For reference the equipment was based off a set of Crystalline Silk armor, swapping pieces out for epic/whistling fist robe/monk shackles/low tier planar/kael arena gear as I found it.

[Penish]

If you plan on being hit.. AC is cool - if you plan on being hit by a raid mob while pulling.. its going to hit for max damage anyway (level mitigation) so.. hp.

[Knuckle]

Depends on what your goals are. I know a monk with 1700 ac buffed. He can tank HoT better than my SK. For leveling etc, try to have a good mix of both.

My eyebrows are raised, when does diminishing returns kick in on the AC formula, and specifically, does AC operate differently by class or is it a flat neutral beast that affects all classes equally: 1700 AC wizard would experience the same damage per landed hit as a 1700 AC monk?(again, ignoring riposte/parry/block any skills that prevent damage, or discs).

Also I understand that itemization most likely prevents most classes from hitting AC at those tiers.

[Croco]

ac is absolutely not the same between classes a 1700 ac wizard will take hits worse than a 1700 ac monk who will take hits worse than a 1700 ac plate tank

[Naethyn]

rAC = SoftCap + Shield + [ WornAC - (SoftCap + Shield) ]*OvercapReturn

Overcap Returns:
Warrior: 0.45
SK/Pal/Monk: 0.33
Rang: 0.17
Other: 0.02


*p99 formula likely slightly different but you should get the idea.

[Keebz]

rAC = SoftCap + Shield + [ WornAC - (SoftCap + Shield) ]*OvercapReturn

Overcap Returns:
Warrior: 0.45
SK/Pal/Monk: 0.33
Rang: 0.17
Other: 0.02


*p99 formula likely slightly different but you should get the idea.

Is that from the eqemu code?

[Jimjam]

Is that from the eqemu code?

I imagine so. I'd also hope what we use here is nothing like that.

IIRC that code should be from the post SoL / PoP era AC revamps.

Classically AC was hardcapped until VERY late SoV, and after that cap was mitigated at the end of expansion the returns post cap were meant to be minimal.

Something to consider is even if we have perfectly implemented AC, we still may get non-classic results as AC works by being compared to the aggressors attack, and mob attack values are ... 'best guess' to put it nicely.

[Keebz]

IIRC that code should be from the post SoL / PoP era AC revamps.

Classically AC was hardcapped until VERY late SoV, and after that cap was mitigated at the end of expansion the returns post cap were meant to be minimal.

Something to consider is even if we have perfectly implemented AC, we still may get non-classic results as AC works by being compared to the aggressors attack, and mob attack values are ... 'best guess' to put it nicely.

Yea, that makes sense. I remember when AC was completely broken here. It seems better now, but definitely off (generally worse) from how I remember it being on live back in the day.

I'm curious if other's experience differs, but for all the use cases I've encountered here, AC has been good, HP has been king.