DPS War - Yes/No

[Frytard]

Hi i want to create a gnome warrior not to tank but just dps with a fist of zek/wyrmslayer or wyrm/wyrm - (will have RGB) gonna have mostly str/dex focus items instead of ac/hp. I would stay under 40% the whole time for the group to maximize the dps.
If you saw in shout: "Gnome DPS Warrior LFG NO TANKING" Would you...

[Supaskillz]

I would look for a rogue or monk

[Azazel]

I would look for a rogue or monk

[Knuckle]

I would look for a rogue or monk

[Bruno]

Hi i want to create a gnome warrior

I stopped reading after that.

[Aadill]

I voted checkbox, but:

I would look for a rogue or monk

[Rotted_Corpse]

well i'd look for a rogue, caster dps, or ranger first.

[Frytard]

well i'd look for a rogue, caster dps, or ranger first.

Obviously a ranger.

[Knightmare]

Here's the problem with a DPS warrior in Everquest, as opposed to other MMO's.

Warrior's in Everquest have no aggro dumps (except dying perhaps lol). Compare vs Monk/Rogue.

Warrior's in Everquest get much threat by doing DPS (as opposed to other MMO's where it's done by selective moves/combos). With no gear/stat setup to tank much, no ability to dump aggro, and a great gear/stat combo to get aggro, you become a liability to the survival of the group. Not to mention the healers mana :)

My druid cries at a DPS Warrior in Everquest group. Love 'em in other games though..

[Rotted_Corpse]

Obviously a ranger.

Actually no not a ranger. Vet eq1 player yes. Necro is my main. :)

Rotted Corpse
Necromancer of Cabilis

[Aadill]

Sup I'm a ranger and LFG. Please invite me.

[Mardur]

I would get kinda annoyed when groups were looking for dps and wouldn't invite my war. With BOTBDE/Wurmslayer I could out-dps most rogues and monks I grouped with. More people need to learn how to parse.

Oh, and if you had a good enough tank where you could stay below 40% all the time, you'll easily be outdpsing 90%+ of the server. The problem is I can usually hold aggro without a problem with my DPS setup.

I'm an ogre though. Not sure how a gnome would compare.

If anything you might be doing like 10 dps or so under a rogue/monk. Not wasting the healers' mana when you pull aggro kinda makes up for the little dps you may or may not be behind a rog/mnk on. Not to mention how completely ridiculous Mighty Strike disc is <40% hp. I was hitting like 300-500 dps with that active.

[azeth]

Hi i want to create a gnome warrior not to tank but just dps with a fist of zek/wyrmslayer or wyrm/wyrm - (will have RGB) gonna have mostly str/dex focus items instead of ac/hp. I would stay under 40% the whole time for the group to maximize the dps.
If you saw in shout: "Gnome DPS Warrior LFG NO TANKING" Would you...

If you take a look at any DPS chart with a warrior, and typical "dps classes" (ie rogue monk), you'd understand that while you do produce damage, sometimes a lot of it - you are on average no where near being considered a DPS class.

I think it's easy to assume you're pumping damage out when you haven't compared yourself fairly to a different class.

Wouldn't you have an easier time rolling rogue and decking him out in hp/ac gear, versus playing a "DPS warrior" without the benefit of backstab/FK?

With BOTBDE/Wurmslayer I could out-dps most rogues and monks I grouped with

^ This is horseshit til you post a parse. Purely from the perspective that you're hitting the mob from the front 100x more often than your DPS'ers disallows warriors to really compete on DPS charts. That said, in the case where a Warrior actively looks to DPS and not over aggro to avoid riposte/parry/block, he's just made himself into a specialty-less fodder class.

[Ostros]

I voted checkbox

The only way to vote.

But yes, warriors in Everquest are exclusively tanks. I think one of (if not THE) first weapons to have an aggro generating proc was the warrior epic. Why the hell would you want to roll a DPS warrior anyway? Tanking is one of the most active parts in the group, because half the time you're the one that's going to be pulling if you're short a monk.

[Supaskillz]

I would get kinda annoyed when groups were looking for dps and wouldn't invite my war. With BOTBDE/Wurmslayer I could out-dps most rogues and monks I grouped with. More people need to learn how to parse.


I know who needs to learn how to parse and its not me.... I have grouped with several warriors with botbde and their dps was about 30% of my dps. At lvls 55+ warriors with the best possible gear cant even compete with poorly equipped rogues.

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

More than a few times I have been Head Cleric for my guild in PoHate/PoFear. In my group was the MT (Snoooooogan the pally) and Jarelorf the Wood Elf Warrior.

Jarelorf sometimes requests that I DO NOT heal him so he can get into super-uber-berserker-rage mode for extra DPS(Snoogan purposefully drops aggro onto him so he can take some damage a little bit at a time before redirecting the mob). I can tell he does a significantly increased amount of damage (duh, obvious), enough so that sometimes he tips the tables and our group becomes the EXP group in raids :D

I agree with the earlier poster who said that Warriors do not have a way to dump aggro, and this can make it troublesome if the berserker warrior somehow grabs it. In my experience we have not had a problem doing this however; Snoogan holds aggro just fine, and it's my opinion that a Shadowknight's aggro would also be adequate.

Summary: Although it is a fun and different thing to do, I think it would be more work for you to explain yourself as a DPS-only warrior every time you join a new group.

I suggest making yourself a tank first and carry around a second set of "DPS Gear" for those situations where there's a shadowknight/paladin who is able to tank and secure aggro so you are free to DPS.

[orsk]

I would have to research it more but i would say an equipped warrior could hold up against another melee dps class, and why not? considering crits, or esp if your running the war at berserk my groups loved me crippling for 700+ and knocking mobs in half or more.

[Kassel]

I would get kinda annoyed when groups were looking for dps and wouldn't invite my war. With BOTBDE/Wurmslayer I could out-dps most rogues and monks I grouped with. More people need to learn how to parse.

I parse every fight and i can say that no warrior has ever been close to overtaking me in damage. I hear lieing on the internet makes you cool

[Dantes]

Even if you wanted to do more DPS in general - gnome would not be the race to choose.

[Kika Maslyaka]

hey, compared to a paladin, warrior is a dps class :D

[Dravingar]

I was hitting like 300-500 dps with that active.

WTS 7 gram rocks. Highest I've ever really seen DPS wise is like 280-300 as a 60 rogue with duelist.

[baalzy]

If you consider rangers to be a DPS class, then a Warrior is one too.(lol ranger, i know...)

Simple reason, Warriors (currently) have higher weapon skill caps then rangers and access to just as good/better weapons & str gear and they also get crits, crips, and discs.

[Supaskillz]

If a warrior stays in berserker range on purpose they can do pretty good dps, but this is a risky strategy since they cannot aggro dump(mentioned a few times above) and some of the top dps weapons have procs that generate aggro. Maybe this would be worth doing with a hybrid tank in the group and non proc setup like scd/wurmslayer, however I think this is something a warrior might do as an alternate setup to use when you find yourself in a situation where you could use it instead of tanking. No reason to build your warrior with that in mind from the start when you can easily swap some gear to switch into dps/low aggro mode.

[orsk]

whats the best way to parse dps to find out whats combos better etc?

[Pico]

mardur's got a reputation to hold up ysee he has to be able to do everything!

better invite him in ur group next time you need dps

[Messianic]

World of Warcraft is that way ------> www.worldofwarcraft.com

EQ doesn't really have "DPS warriors" (with the exception of your weapon choices) because changing between tanking gear a really small effect on your overall dps.

[azeth]

whats the best way to parse dps to find out whats combos better etc?

try "Gamparse". Parsers are just log readers, and 99.9% of them show only straight melee discluding procs etc etc

[Ihealyou]

Warriors DPS what they wanna

[Fourthmeal]

haters gonna hate

[Bruno]

haters gonna hate

Haters not gonna let dps warrior in group.

[Messianic]

Warriors DPS what they wanna

You win.

[orsk]

World of Warcraft is that way ------> www.worldofwarcraft.com

EQ doesn't really have "DPS warriors" (with the exception of your weapon choices) because changing between tanking gear a really small effect on your overall dps.

warriors can actually change armor as well as weapons and be a viable DPS option.

[Misto]

THIS THREAD IS F**KING STUPID.

The only f**king difference is pressing the f**king Taunt button. Just press it. And quit being a lazy f**k.

[Ennoia]

DPS Warrior in EQ makes you retarded.

[Slave]

Well, they have to be good at SOMEthing, right?

[MegamanXZOBMV]

Try a DPS Enchanter.

The idea is actually pretty interesting. I'm sure if, people stopped wasting time here and went to check equipment and crunch a few numbers, a fairly decent DPS Warrior set-up could be made. Probably not going to match with any ''real'' DPS classes, but hey.. It's good to spice things up every now and then.

I wonder how a Tank Rogue would work out.

If you're gonna roll a Gnome.. I guess play to your strengths? I've never really made any Gnome toons.. I hate Ak'Anon, but looking at the stat tables on the p99 wiki, at least you'll have a pretty good AGI and DEX score. But on that note.. Halflings are superior.
Hmm... Warrior Dwarves have 00 Stamina? I ought to let someone know about that.

[username17]

Bad idea. I voted reroll monk/rogue.

If you play a rogue, you can wear mithril and LOOK like a warrior. Good enough?

[Frytard]

Bad idea. I voted reroll monk/rogue.

If you play a rogue, you can wear mithril and LOOK like a warrior. Good enough?

truth - but alot of gnome rogues already - i think 2-3 high lvl gnome wars only?

[sobchak123]

Don't hate on gnome warrior

They can hold their own tanking wise

[hrafn]

i'd group with you. power gamers always TT when they encounter something unfamiliar. i grouped with a pally in unrest one night that pulled multiple mobs and feared the last mob to pull more.

[Harm]

If I have another tank, sure you can join the group. Who is to say that I have a better DPS character at my beck and call? You have the benefit of wearing almost any armor and using almost any weapon, and have higher/same skill caps as the classes you're competing with DPS wise, and assuming you choose your gear for stats instead of AC/sta, you should be able to do "a lot" of DPS.

On another note, among us lowbies there is a serious lack of tanks in the 1-40 level range. I'm wishing I rerolled a shadowknight instead of the wizard I'm playing right now... I would never have to solo with my LFG tag on, which is what I do a lot of right now. Your main problem is going to be that you will be invited to groups with the assumption that warriors tank, and then you're going to say you don't tank, and then people are going to get upset with you.

[gnomishfirework]

i'd group with you. power gamers always TT when they encounter something unfamiliar. i grouped with a pally in unrest one night that pulled multiple mobs and feared the last mob to pull more.

Yea, that's not unfamiliar. That's idiotic. You have no control over the amount of mobs it will aggro, if any. I never fault anyone for playing unconventionally. I love it, but I do hate stupid.

Unless it's somewhere with very clear pathing or your group is capable of handling any amount of mobs, I cant see a reason I wouldn't keep root ready with that guy in group.

[Frytard]

Personally this is for a twink to mess around with. No one really gave a specific example of when they would or would not take a DPS War. Anyone 1-51 should not complain and take this DPS War as he would be well twinked and probably have better equip then most nontwinked rogue/monks. Only time someone should complain is in a kunark dungeon 52-60 where people are actually geared and make this little whore of a gnome useless.

[Frytard]

On second thought rogues blow till 55. Monks blow until Tstaff/RFS/Epic. DPS WAR FTW (until 55 rogue swoops in of course or monk who tried to call NBG for his 5-6 levels in karnors to get his tstaff but actually won it cause no one agreed to NBG)

[Seaweedpimp]

I think one of (if not THE) first weapons to have an aggro generating proc was the warrior epic.

le herp

[Messianic]

warriors can actually change armor as well as weapons and be a viable DPS option.

EQ doesn't really have "DPS warriors" (with the exception of your weapon choices) because changing between tanking gear has a really small effect on your overall dps.


On second thought rogues blow till 55. Monks blow until Tstaff/RFS/Epic. DPS WAR FTW (until 55 rogue swoops in of course or monk who tried to call NBG for his 5-6 levels in karnors to get his tstaff but actually won it cause no one agreed to NBG)

....No, rogues don't suck until then, nor do monks suck without a tstaff/rfs/epic. Just because it's not BIS doesn't mean it sucks. Monks still do craploads of damage and so do rogues, comparatively, to other classes at the same level and roughly the same gear value. I soloed very effectively in my 50s as a monk (most other melees would be hard pressed) even without a tstaff, rfs, or epic. Remember that peacebringer is just a hair under Tstaff in effectiveness and is much cheaper.

[Dantes]

I've rarely been in a group with a second Warrior - aside from planar raids when I get shafted in the "no exp" group. But in regular pickup group situations, almost never. Same goes for the Paladin or SK. The 2 tank group rarely ever happens. People would just rather have a monk or a rogue for DPS, or a mage, or a necro, or a wizard.

Having 2 tanks in a six man group is like having 2 bards, 2 clerics, or 2 enchanters. Why the hell would anybody want 2 when that other spot can be filled with good dps. Even with all of the best STR jewelry and gear, as a gnome you're still going to have less STR then a regularly equipped Ogre with AC gear.

[Bruno]

I've rarely been in a group with a second Warrior - aside from planar raids when I get shafted in the "no exp" group. But in regular pickup group situations, almost never. Same goes for the Paladin or SK. The 2 tank group rarely ever happens. People would just rather have a monk or a rogue for DPS, or a mage, or a necro, or a wizard.

Having 2 tanks in a six man group is like having 2 bards, 2 clerics, or 2 enchanters. Why the hell would anybody want 2 when that other spot can be filled with good dps. Even with all of the best STR jewelry and gear, as a gnome you're still going to have less STR then a regularly equipped Ogre with AC gear.

Pretty much. These people can go through ifs and what ifs until they have to exchange keyboards, but the fact of the matter is at a difficult to semi-difficult camp requiring a 50+ 6 man group, people would rather wait for a proper dps than add a dps warrior.

[Knightmare]

Pretty much. These people can go through ifs and what ifs until they have to exchange keyyboards, but the fact of the matter is at a difficult to semi-difficult camp requiring a 50+ 6 man group, people would rather wait for a proper dps than add a dps warrior.

This post here is exactly what I was getting at. +1

It has nothing to do with being a min/max, power gamer, hardcore or anything like that. In some junk PUG outdoors, or an easy dungeon crawl, even in some raids, sure. Hell I've lvl'd up with 2 Sk's in the group, but we're just talking lvl 20-40 lowbie pugs in those cases.

For the harder or higher level ones like Bruno posted here. It's just not really effective use of the slot, or of my mana. If it's a harder run, I can't always spare alotta mana for a tank who can't tank, or an aggro machine who can't dump aggro :(

And it would just suck for the OP to roll the Gnome dps warrior, then get to the higher lvls and be left out in the cold, or left behind for a dps with utility. Which, I believe, was the point of his poll. It has sparked nice debate though :)

[baalzy]

I'd roll the DPS warrior for the S&Gs then once I got up to the point where mobs start hitting hard I'd switch over to Tank gear and keep a couple choice pieces of DPS gear on me for those 1 in a million situations where I have 2 tanks.

1-50ish if you twink out a warrior with the best DPS gear available, they're going to have more AC then your average warrior who dungeon crawled their way into gear. Tree weaves are cheap, high str, and are only beat by Incarnadine/Cobalt for AC (until planar). Mithril arms are only 2ac behind most other tradeables ect...

50+ when the mobs catch up and surpass your DPS mode AC is when you'd have to start focusing on your Ac/Hp/Resists.

[Mardur]

WTS 7 gram rocks. Highest I've ever really seen DPS wise is like 280-300 as a 60 rogue with duelist.

Lots of angry rogues in this thread.

http://i54.tinypic.com/22176e.jpg

I think my highest was around 380-390, I'm no where near max level, and my gear isn't optimal. 400-500 isn't impossible at all.

I normally put out 85ish dps, plus a boost from Mighty Strike whenever it's up puts me at probably just under 100ish dps average. Most pug monk/rogues were only averaging like 60 dps. Geared rogues like Enorm would obviously out-dps me @ about 120 average but it was pretty rare to group with people who could outdps me. Mind, I haven't played on P99 for a month or two.

Also when epics / velious comes out, rogues will leave everyone in their dust anyways so calm down.

[Zuranthium]

Warriors do excellent damage. The responses in this thread are stupid.

If you had 4 Warriors, 1 Cleric, and 1 Enchanter, your party would be perfectly fine. LOL at people suggesting you bring a caster for DPS instead of a Warrior (talking about the high levels here). A hasted Warrior is better than 2 casters together.

Also LOL at the suggestion of bringing a Ranger, pre-Velious. Although Rangers are at least still better than INT casters or Druids in the later levels during the post-Kunark, pre-Velious era.

[MotorX007]

. This is like a 10 second representation.

[Bruno]

Warriors do excellent damage. The responses in this thread are stupid.

If you had 4 Warriors, 1 Cleric, and 1 Enchanter, your party would be perfectly fine. LOL at people suggesting you bring a caster for DPS instead of a Warrior (talking about the high levels here). A hasted Warrior is better than 2 casters together.

Also LOL at the suggestion of bringing a Ranger, pre-Velious. Although Rangers are at least still better than INT casters or Druids in the later levels during the post-Kunark, pre-Velious era.

Bad troll is bad.

[Kassel]

24 hits is a pretty crappy representation of damge done in a group. FAIL

[Supaskillz]

what an awful parse posting. I could post a 2 hit parse and show 1k dps

[Aadill]

Yeah if that was a parse across the course of a single boss fight then that would be believable but that's such a small parse solely based on the use of a discipline. That does indicate the capability of a warrior to do high DPS but it does not have any sustainability across a normal length fight. A rogue can maintain their high DPS while you're looking at bursts.

You didn't ever say how long a warrior could top a rogue's DPS, but c'mon you know that a warrior can't beat a rogue or monk.

[Mardur]

24 hits is a pretty crappy representation of damge done in a group. FAIL

That's kind of the point, I soloed a dark blue mob in CoM in 14 seconds. There would have been more hits... if I was doing less dps. If you were able to follow a simple conversation you would have realized that I was refuting Dravinger's claim that it's impossible to exceed 300 dps. A 50+ warrior with decent gear should be nearing or breaking 300 dps every time they hit Mighty Strike. The fact that Dravinger claims that a 60 rogue /discing duelist only does 200-300 dps just supports that warriors can easily hold their own when it comes to dps.

In any expansion other than Kunark I would agree it would be silly to proclaim yourself a dps war (well, it's still silly. just roll an ogre warrior to tank AND dps). Warriors arguably get the best set of discs, as well as access to all the best kunark weapons (most/all of which get nerfed/removed). There's 2 Kunark weapons that were just way too good: Blade of the Black Dragon Eye (could be substituted with the mace with the same ratio, just no dps proc) and Wurmslayer in the secondary. The latter option is only available to War/Rng. The former only to warriors. Hence, only warriors can wield what's one of the best weapon combos on the server right now.

If we're talking PoP or something, sure. A warrior isn't going to be able to touch a rogue/monk when it comes to dps. But.. this is Kunark, on P99, prior to AAs, epics, and other fancy things that helped rogues/monks out.

what an awful parse posting. I could post a 2 hit parse and show 1k dps

It's a 24 hit parse. I'm sorry that gyrating goos don't have more hp. If you can show 1k dps over a 14 second parse vs. a db mob as a war I'll give you 100k.

Yeah if that was a parse across the course of a single boss fight then that would be believable

Again, you're taking the wrong thing out of my post. Discs don't last the course of a single boss fight. Dravinger said level 60 Rogues hit 200-300 dps with Duelist. I'm showing that as a ~55 warrior I can exceed 300 dps with Mighty Strike. That was the only point. When I compile parses from 4/1 to 4/18 (last time I logged in) I'm at 91 dps. I'd go through the effort of posting a screenshot, but I'm sure people will make up excuses that I cherry picked fights, etc.

Not trying to pick fights, just saying people are underestimating how much DPS a warrior can put out right now. If you have doubts, download Gamparse and do your own studies instead of posting on a forum.

[Supaskillz]

I wont disagree that a warrior can do great dps with disciplines in a very short burst....

The problem is this is about a warrior looking to join a group to do dps where what you want is sustained dps. The fact is warriors will be worse than rogues and monks even with bobde(which is going to pull alot of aggro that you cannot dump) and wurmslayer over any decent sample size. I dont have parses saved, but I have parsed 100s of fights with a gnome warrior on this server who uses bobde and ringed mace of the ykesha and it was not even close.

Also duelist lasts 30 seconds which is longer than mighty strike I believe.

ps: rogues can use bobde, but it makes more sense in a warriors hands since it generates alot of aggro

[Taryth]

A disc burst means nothing. They're all talking about SUSTAINED DPS, not what you can do once every 30min-1hr.

Try parsing 20-30 fights, and show us the averages. Do another set of 20-30, with discs.



Edit: nobody cares about burst DPS from a class that can't do it at least every couple of minutes. See: Wizards.

[baalzy]

Parses when tanking don't really accurately reflect your true DPS potential. Dodges/ripostes are going to eat a lot of your DPS when you compare it to a rogue/monk that is hitting from the back.

You could probably approximate the numbers by looking at your dodges/ripostes, adding those together then adjusting them by your average hit/miss %'s. Of course, you'd also wanna make sure to subtract your own ripostes.

[guineapig]

Problem is (other than the fact that a good ranger should be able to out DPS a warrior with little effort) that warriors have no way of dropping any DPS aggro they generate unlike a rogue or a monk who both can.

[Ihealyou]

Problem is (other than the fact that a good ranger should be able to out DPS a warrior with little effort) that warriors have no way of dropping any DPS aggro they generate unlike a rogue or a monk who both can.

But then the warrior is tanking. Doesn't sound like a problem to me.

[mimixownzall]

But then the warrior is tanking. Doesn't sound like a problem to me.

Which, apparent to anyone who actually read more than what you are quoting, is not what this thread is about.

[Zuranthium]

Bad troll is bad.

Yes, you are trolling. Thanks for clearing that up.

Do a parse of a hasted Warrior with acceptable high level weaponry and you'll find it's at least 2x that of caster damage output.

[Ihealyou]

Which, apparent to anyone who actually read more than what you are quoting, is not what this thread is about.

Oh, I thought the thread called dps warriors was about warriors tanking...

My point is, who gives a fuck if a warrior gets aggro? Yeah, you lose DPS, but now you're tanking. Either way, you're being useful to the group. A rogue tanking is worthless, which is why they need to be able to dump aggro. If a warrior can tank and do dps, why is it bad for him to do both? I don't choose between being a buffing and a healing cleric.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Oh, I thought the thread called dps warriors was about warriors tanking...

My point is, who gives a fuck if a warrior gets aggro? Yeah, you lose DPS, but now you're tanking. Either way, you're being useful to the group. A rogue tanking is worthless, which is why they need to be able to dump aggro. If a warrior can tank and do dps, why is it bad for him to do both? I don't choose between being a buffing and a healing cleric.

+1

[Bruno]

Yes, you are trolling. Thanks for clearing that up.

Do a parse of a hasted Warrior with acceptable high level weaponry and you'll find it's at least 2x that of caster damage output.

Your response to another thread about a kedge group:

It's great that you're doing this. Something I would totally participate in but my character isn't high enough level on this server yet.

[Zuranthium]

Uh? Those two posts are completely unrelated. Exactly what is your point?

[baalzy]

Problem is (other than the fact that a good ranger should be able to out DPS a warrior with little effort) that warriors have no way of dropping any DPS aggro they generate unlike a rogue or a monk who both can.

How? At this point rangers don't get the tools to do this without getting their butts handed to them.

They can add a few DPS by putting drones of doom/immolate on a mob.

They don't hit harder, their weapon skills are lower then a warriors, they can't crit, and they don't really have any better weapon options.

So, how can a ranger easily out DPS a warrior?

Drones adds 5.6 dps, immolate adds 4 dps but would need to be applied as the mob comes in otherwise you take a hit in your DPS due to cast times. Which is going to put the ranger pretty high on the hate list off the bat.

Then you can cast Calefaction every 45 seconds which is ~4dps if you're able to recast it everytime it cycles but will also get you lots of instant agro. Don't forget that this gets lowered by the missed swings while you're casting.

~14dps is a pretty decent increase, but due to mana you can't keep it up and it's very likely going to get you agro. Drones is about the only DPS you can count on being able to use with reasonable assurance it won't lead to your death. Maybe the occasional calefaction agains't a mob at low health to finish it off.

With the way hate works currently on p99, as long as the warrior doesn't use any proc weapons its very unlikely they'll take agro from a Pal/Sk/Warrior with procs, except maybe at the very beginning of a fight before any spells/procs are used. Raw melee hits just don't generate enough agro compared to a couple procs of Ykesha.

Warriors get the same or better DPS options for 1handers (discounting agro generating procs). Rangers do get access to a better 2hander then warriors can. Woodsman staff at .89 dmg/delay ratio vs staff of battle at .84 dmg/delay. So then its really up in the air as to whether the .05 increased ratio can compensate for more misses, fewer max hits, and no crits.

Is a warrior ideal for pure DPS? No. Is it better then a ranger for DPS? At this point in the progression, yes.

[Kika Maslyaka]

I agree with baalzy conclusions - there is no way ranger can out-dps a warrior, with lower skill caps and no crit bonus

[Aadill]

I agree with baalzy conclusions - there is no way ranger can out-dps a warrior, with lower skill caps and no crit bonus

on rare occasions it happens but yeah basically being a ranger sucks shit when it comes to hitting high level mobs.


EDIT:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=61984#753908

Technically rangers just don't get as high as offense, but offense plays the biggest role in making the whole damn thing works... sucks :(

[Fists]

pickle does not have steel hilted flint dagger!

[username17]

I've posted already, but I wanted to give some more info behind my reason for selecting the re-roll option.

Last night in my OT group we ended up having 2 warriors in our group. One of them knew he was less geared than the other so he opted to DPS. He then tanked a few mobs to drop himself down to berserking and the other well geared tank took over.

This warrior had a heck of a time staying in berserking.

He was constantly fighting with the healer NOT to heal him. But then he'd pull aggro and ask for a heal. He wasn't obnoxious about it or anything but I think there was a lot less room for error.

I think the big unanswered question is who would be at fault if the berserking warrior died?
He was the one fighting to stay in berserking. Not being the tank made him less than #1 priority on heals.
Who knows. But maybe that's another point for discussion.


The DPS warrior couldn't chain pull while the other warrior tanked because he would get beat on and almost die.
He did some fancy big numbers here and there (I can't speak to actual dps) but overall it seemed to be a worrying experience between him and the healer.

I think that he pulled his weight as a group member. He was flexible and able to do SOME dps while another warrior tanked. But I don't think trying to stay in berserker 100% of the time and only DPSing as a warrior would work.

My 2 cp. Take it as you please.

[Mardur]

That's the point. Having a permazerk warrior takes a bit of cooperation from the healers/warrior but the extra dps is worth it when you're spamming out 400+ hits.

[username17]

I still don't think it will work.
What about AoEs, casters the tank can't pick up, respawn popping on your head, etc. Your health pool provides a buffer so you can react to things like that.

If you run around at ~30% HP there's a much higher chance of you dieing to a resisted mez, respawn, etc.

Edit: Let me put it this way, if I were a healer I wouldn't want you. Being a rogue, I really don't care. I think your big numbers are cool, just like my backstabs.

[Bruno]

I've posted already, but I wanted to give some more info behind my reason for selecting the re-roll option.

Last night in my OT group we ended up having 2 warriors in our group. One of them knew he was less geared than the other so he opted to DPS. He then tanked a few mobs to drop himself down to berserking and the other well geared tank took over.

This warrior had a heck of a time staying in berserking.

He was constantly fighting with the healer NOT to heal him. But then he'd pull aggro and ask for a heal. He wasn't obnoxious about it or anything but I think there was a lot less room for error.

I think the big unanswered question is who would be at fault if the berserking warrior died?
He was the one fighting to stay in berserking. Not being the tank made him less than #1 priority on heals.
Who knows. But maybe that's another point for discussion.


The DPS warrior couldn't chain pull while the other warrior tanked because he would get beat on and almost die.
He did some fancy big numbers here and there (I can't speak to actual dps) but overall it seemed to be a worrying experience between him and the healer.

I think that he pulled his weight as a group member. He was flexible and able to do SOME dps while another warrior tanked. But I don't think trying to stay in berserker 100% of the time and only DPSing as a warrior would work.

My 2 cp. Take it as you please.

This is another unconventional situation I would do without, especially in low level groups. It would be unfair to the healer who may be inexperienced to keep a warrior flirting below 30%, and have to worry about the rest of the group as well. When the warrior drops from an add, aoe, or taking aggro, that's a waste of dps, and makes the entire situation a waste of time.

I've leveled to 60 and have done almost every 6 man camp so far without having a need for a warrior to stay in berserker. I believe i've only seen it once, in a group with mardur in KC.

If you're messing around with your buddies or are in a group where the healers don't mind, then that's fine. Don't expect the high risk situation to be a favored idea by most. It's just really unnecessary.

[Spud]

Hi i want to create a gnome warrior not to tank but just dps with a fist of zek/wyrmslayer or wyrm/wyrm - (will have RGB) gonna have mostly str/dex focus items instead of ac/hp. I would stay under 40% the whole time for the group to maximize the dps.
If you saw in shout: "Gnome DPS Warrior LFG NO TANKING" Would you...

reroll a Halfling DPS Warrior. You get an exp bonus plus you can HIDE!

Too bad it doesn't work like evade though haha...

Oh, I thought the thread called dps warriors was about warriors tanking...

My point is, who gives a fuck if a warrior gets aggro? Yeah, you lose DPS, but now you're tanking. Either way, you're being useful to the group. A rogue tanking is worthless, which is why they need to be able to dump aggro. If a warrior can tank and do dps, why is it bad for him to do both? I don't choose between being a buffing and a healing cleric.

The critical hits are huge dmg bonus, if the war gets aggro repeatedly why would you want a DPS warrior in your group instead of a rogue? Also, if your trying to keep the warrior in the critical health range they could die if they get aggro.

[Kika Maslyaka]

on rare occasions it happens but yeah basically being a ranger sucks shit when it comes to hitting high level mobs.


EDIT:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=61984#753908

Technically rangers just don't get as high as offense, but offense plays the biggest role in making the whole damn thing works... sucks :(

a SIGNIFICANT note, those skill caps are from 2004 - thats GoD Era

up until Luclin ranger caps were 15-25 points lower than warriors on all weapons

[Maurk]

Warriors DPS what they wanna

[username17]

I agree with ya there Bruno.

I think the cleric was cool with it. He'd let the actual tank drop to ~20% and throw a CH on him to maximize mana efficiency. So every now and then we'd have both warriors berserking.

[Aadill]

a SIGNIFICANT note, those skill caps are from 2004 - thats GoD Era

up until Luclin ranger caps were 15-25 points lower than warriors on all weapons

Yeah just noticed that. Looks like that fellow grabbed post Luclin stats... thought I read it was from Prima guide but Prima states what you said.. NM!~

[Kika Maslyaka]

Yeah just noticed that. Looks like that fellow grabbed post Luclin stats... thought I read it was from Prima guide but Prima states what you said.. NM!~

aye, the rangers were upped in 2001 - here is the semi-prove ;)

http://www.gucomics.com/comics/2001/gu_20010223.jpg

the comic dated Feb 2001