Shaman/Monk Duo Question

[xaxis]

So I may have finally convinced a friend of mine to try EQ/p99!

If he does, he's interested in the monk which is cool and fairly straight forward. My question is, how much does duoing a shaman change from soloing? I know the monk/sham duo is one of, if not the best combo in the game but I also know sham are super expensive/gear and spell dependent at high levels. So I guess I'm curious as to how that changes with the simple addition of a monk. . .

I have a lvl 24 (?) shaman on blue from a couple years ago that I did pretty much exclusively solo. I thoroughly enjoy the class but I know it's way different in a group than it is to solo.

P.S. I'm not expecting us to get even close to endgame/max level but I imagine it's more likely than seeing the kind of funds that max sham need to be fully kitted out, so I'd prefer to be prepared for that content regardless of my expectations and budget.

[Danth]

Doesn't change it to any great extent. You'll want the spells regardless and you'll equip yourself pretty much the same way. You might not miss some of the high level damage spells or Spear of Fate quite as much if you don't have them. You still want Torpor, but it's a reasonably competent duo even without.

Danth

[jijii]

mnk shm is an above average melee+priest leveling duo but nothing close to "OP" or anything like that. it's the best end game melee+priest duo

it's worth noting a few things:

-it's not as good as caster combos for leveling
-gear is very important for any melee comp (outside of maybe a rogue who can get 1 item and be more or less set forever)
-mnk shm doesn't really become as strong as people talk about until both are 60, or at least, especially the shm, because torpor

basically it's a good duo but you're gonna want all the levels and the really expensive stuff to see it shine

[Toxigen]

OP, ignore this post above shitting on the power of monk + sham. Its a fantastic duo and will easily blow the doors off pure casters in leveling speed to 60 (enc / necro / cleric combos aside). Once you synergize with your buddy and get a good tempo going there is nothing stopping that train.

First thing to do is get your friend playing and comfortable with the "clunk" of EQ.

Next, find a way to get him to 20 as fast as possible to join your shaman for XP.

Your monk buddy's #1 priority is to get used to pulling / splitting out singles to make your life easy. Anyone can press Q and turn on auto attack, but what will make your duo seamless is the monks ability to consistently bring in solo pulls so you don't have to juggle / deal with roots breaking. Remember....your HP is also your mana. You can help him with clean-tagging, but its a good idea to put the responsibility solely on him for a while and get him familiar with aggro / blur mechanics early on.

Keep monk friend hasted, regened, and STR/HP buffed (dex / agi is a waste). Every mob that comes into camp simply root ---> slow ---> sit/canni and enjoy the show.

Protip: later on into your 40s / 50s, there will be situations where you can "downrank" your slows. Say you're in a dungeon with a wide level range of mobs...you can use a lower rank of slow on easy mobs and use max rank on the harder ones. This will save you a ton of mana.


What kind of funds do you have to equip said monk friend and your own shaman?

[rjw513]

Don’t underestimate the power of bind wound paired with canni
...esp if you get to 50 and he can bind to 70%

[Crede]

OP, ignore this post above shitting on the power of monk + sham. Its a fantastic duo and will easily blow the doors off pure casters in leveling speed to 60 (enc / necro / cleric combos aside). Once you synergize with your buddy and get a good tempo going there is nothing stopping that train.

Easily blow the doors off pure casters in leveling speed? Lol no. Not sure why you're shitting on his post when he's right, monk/shaman duo doesn't really come into its own until later levels. Sure twinked you can blow through stuff but untwinked it's just an average duo for leveling which is likely going to be the case here since OP's main appears to be a level 24 shaman.

Mage/cleric, mage/mage, mage/necro, druid/enc, druid/druid with animals, etc. I could keep going with combinations. Basically any caster combo not involving a wizard that can have pets will definitely out level an untwinked monk/shaman duo.

[xaxis]

Thanks for all the feedback. Didn't expect this much this quickly. So some points of clarification:

My "main" was a low 30s Necro on blue (again a couple years ago).

We'd be starting afresh on green so funding for anything, much less twinking, is 0.

We'd be rolling iksar as he wants to do monk (actually said melee but in giving him the rundown of options, monk was the only one that spoke to him). I'd rather go caster/caster but c'est la vie.

I guess we could try monk/necro but I don't see those two having much synergy with such different play styles.

[rjw513]

Fear kiting, double FD, don’t know what level, but necro gets decent heal over time...
I’m sure there’s other synergy there...always play what you want and it will work, gotta make sure dude is having fun. If you decide to stick with it, then maybe consider the whole min/max optimal class/duo thing!

[Grakken]

Listen to Crede and JiJii. Monk/Shm are WAY overrated early. Especially, when you're new to server and ungeared.

Shaman is the most overrated class. Everyone's recollection of shaman early is when they played their twinked shaman with fungi. Slows suck till later. They are insanely high aggro for early levels and not very effective. Their dots are BARELY more efficient than their nukes till 49.

In every situation under lv49, a different class could do what you do better. The only advantage of a shaman is they can do any role, just worse than another class.

At around 51 though, Monk/Shaman feels really good. Eventually, they'll become one of the best duos possible. But, it will take a lot of pain to get to that point.

[Crede]

Thanks for all the feedback. Didn't expect this much this quickly. So some points of clarification:

My "main" was a low 30s Necro on blue (again a couple years ago).

We'd be starting afresh on green so funding for anything, much less twinking, is 0.

We'd be rolling iksar as he wants to do monk (actually said melee but in giving him the rundown of options, monk was the only one that spoke to him). I'd rather go caster/caster but c'est la vie.

I guess we could try monk/necro but I don't see those two having much synergy with such different play styles.

Has he considered iksar sk? You’ll have more flexibility with looting stuff, and not to mention you can get greenmist pretty easily as a casual. Still has fd but you’ll appreciate the snap aggro on a shaman

[Zipity]

Don’t listen to this bullshit, iksar monk + iksar shaman is like giving the monk a fungi, just inner fire dance for the monk and y’all will both be level 20+ untwinked in short order. Kill skeletons and yard trash til lvl 3 then move to the spiderling caves til they green out. The silk sells very well to other players. Get a sewing kit. Literally just spam inner fire on the monk you don’t get a more efficient healing spell until like level uh 53 in Kunark on green outside of Regen line? Lol. Spell available at lvl 1 learn to sit immediately
After to collect the mana and you’ll never go oom even with shite gear. Once monsters start hitting to hard to keep up you will have longer battles where you can use slow and Regen and canni and burst heals.

[xaxis]

Has he considered iksar sk? You’ll have more flexibility with looting stuff, and not to mention you can get greenmist pretty easily as a casual. Still has fd but you’ll appreciate the snap aggro on a shaman

I don't believe so. While he doesn't seem to be much of a true min/maxer he still seeks optimization and I was under the impression that Iksar was a surefire way to nerf your SK? He may be down for it and I'll definitely run it past him though. Thanks for the suggestion!

[xaxis]

Literally just spam inner fire on the monk you don’t get a more efficient healing spell until like level uh 53 in Kunark on green outside of Regen line? Lol. Spell available at lvl 1 learn to sit immediately


Some good advice in general but this right here was the diamond in the rough. How is this true? (It is, I investigated) Seems . . . if not "broken" necessarily, then at least just not right.

[Crede]

I don't believe so. While he doesn't seem to be much of a true min/maxer he still seeks optimization and I was under the impression that Iksar was a surefire way to nerf your SK? He may be down for it and I'll definitely run it past him though. Thanks for the suggestion!

I was more thinking of blue since sks are stronger due to all the patches and also iksars can wear velious armor to equal the playing field. You’d still turn out fine on green with a shaman you can do anything and you’ll have a rare combo but monk definitely more powerful just an option.

[Danth]

Trying to heal a player with perhaps 2000 health using a 20 HP buff/heal while standing and sitting over and over to time casts between meditate ticks all so you might be perhaps 10% more mana efficient is not a recipe for having a fun time. Most ordinary non-obsessive players will forget about Inner Fire around level 19.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Some good advice in general but this right here was the diamond in the rough. How is this true? (It is, I investigated) Seems . . . if not "broken" necessarily, then at least just not right.

Inner Fire may be efficient hp/mana but is no effective in terms of hp/second. It can't be used to heal people with a superior hp/ac type buff on (pretty much anything from the cleric/druid lines apart from maybe courage and skin like wood).

Great for healing a target receiving less than 6 dps, or less than 3dps if you are hoping to catch med ticks.

Once incoming dps exceeds 6, or the incoming dps is very spikey, inner fire loses its value.

Compare to Light Healing, which can heal about 15dps (and casts faster for when you need a heal FAST), or Healing which can heal at about 30dps.7

For a mid 20 shaman PLing a 1-20 monk by mainly buffing and healing inner fire is a decent option.

[xaxis]

Trying to heal a player with perhaps 2000 health using a 20 HP buff/heal while standing and sitting over and over to time casts between meditate ticks all so you might be perhaps 10% more mana efficient is not a recipe for having a fun time. Most ordinary non-obsessive players will forget about Inner Fire around level 19.

Danth

Oh I definitely recognized this too. Inner fire is the most MANA efficient but it’s far from actually efficient when you consider incoming damage, overall time spent casting vs. ho returned, etc... but still, the fact that a lvl 1 not-even-a-true-heal is better and/or viable for at least the bottom third of levels? That’s crazy.

[xaxis]

I was more thinking of blue since sks are stronger due to all the patches and also iksars can wear velious armor to equal the playing field. You’d still turn out fine on green with a shaman you can do anything and you’ll have a rare combo but monk definitely more powerful just an option.

That’s true. I don’t HAVE to have him roll on green. We could do blue. I have some linited resources there at least. I just didn’t think about it because all the hype is green.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That’s true. I don’t HAVE to have him roll on green. We could do blue. I have some linited resources there at least. I just didn’t think about it because all the hype is green.

Blue would be a more chill experience than Green. You guys are already planning on duoing, so it is not like you are trying to maximize your chances at finding groups in the lower level ranges. Items are cheaper too on Blue. Green is only hyped because you get another shot at loot that no longer drops. If that isn't a goal of yours, there isn't much to gain by starting on Green.

[Toxigen]

Just go Blue. Its a duo / trio playground. You'll be able to freely go wherever and not deal with a bunch of spergs cluttering up the popular zones.

I'd be more than happy to help get you started if you need some cheap gear.

[xaxis]

Just go Blue. Its a duo / trio playground. You'll be able to freely go wherever and not deal with a bunch of spergs cluttering up the popular zones.

I'd be more than happy to help get you started if you need some cheap gear.

Well it looks like we may be going blue after all (if I can get him to stop dragging his feet lol) so I may just take you up on that!

[xaxis]

Blue would be a more chill experience than Green. You guys are already planning on duoing, so it is not like you are trying to maximize your chances at finding groups in the lower level ranges. Items are cheaper too on Blue. Green is only hyped because you get another shot at loot that no longer drops. If that isn't a goal of yours, there isn't much to gain by starting on Green.

All excellent points that I also hadn't thought of. Suppose that's the benefit of the forums though lol. Thanks for the input!

P.S. and thank you for your awesome guide too!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

All excellent points that I also hadn't thought of. Suppose that's the benefit of the forums though lol. Thanks for the input!

P.S. and thank you for your awesome guide too!

No problem! Thank you for reading the guide:)

[Toxigen]

Well it looks like we may be going blue after all (if I can get him to stop dragging his feet lol) so I may just take you up on that!

PM me whenever you guys get going. I should be able to scrounge up some starter gear and maybe a little druid plvl too.

I have a 35 bard I could trio w/ you guys too when you get up higher...and a 52 necro a bit further along.

[xaxis]

PM me whenever you guys get going. I should be able to scrounge up some starter gear and maybe a little druid plvl too.

I have a 35 bard I could trio w/ you guys too when you get up higher...and a 52 necro a bit further along.

Hell yeah, that would be sick. Especially since things have adjusted and I guess we're looking at Chanter (me) and Cleric (him). toss a bard OR a necro into that and watch the XP roll in!

[Philistine]

I don't have a monk or a sham, but IMHO the most important thing is to make sure he's having fun and enjoys the game. If not, he won't hang around and it won't matter how good/bad your gear or combo are.

A buddy who I used to play on live with briefly joined p99 - I didn't give either of our guys any gear, figuring I'd do so at level 10ish so as not to ruin the experience...he quit at level 5 /doh!!

This game is way better with friends. Do your best to show him how fun it can be IMHO

[xaxis]

Good advice @Philistine (I enjoy the irony of your name btw lol). You're right of course and that IS what I'm afraid of. We're starting Erudite which has a good shot imo because I've never played one and only been to Odus a handful of times. Maybe less than a handful . . . Anyway, I think it'll help for it to be both of us covering new territory.