Estimate on Student Loan Forgiveness

[Gwaihir]

Ok,

Now that we have "sensible people" in office. What's the over/under on Student Loan Forgiveness' final number?

Initially we had a proposal for ALL student loans being forgiven.

That was revised to 50k

Then 10k.

What's the estimate on the final dollar value of student loan forgiveness under the Weekend at Biden's Administration?

My money is on 0$ (ZERO).

[Tunabros]

im fucked

[imperiouskitten]

ill never pay on it and never collect checks that can be docked for it and never use my own credit, so my loans r forgiven. this is the power of a true Christian partnership, the blurring of atomized identities

[Disease]

ill never pay on it and never collect checks that can be docked for it and never use my own credit, so my loans r forgiven. this is the power of a true Christian partnership, the blurring of atomized identities

Spoken like a true loser.

[Jibartik]

I predict forgiveness for some (the ones that are the reason we are doing this), paybacks for most (the ones that made out ok and payed them off).

[Cassawary]

None but CC or vocational school will be gratis going forward

[Jibartik]

Think we'll reform our dead (its not dying its dead) education system?

Nah.

I wonder why there are so many conspiracies...

[Cecily]

Im fully resolved to have the spirit of my loans haunt me till my dying day. That said I'm trying to repay them like a respectable member of society (after a decade of dodging phonecalls).

[Swish]

The election is over so prime time for $0 forgiven...it'll be reviewed in a few years when they need votes again ;)

[magnetaress]

I believe they should reward every good citizen with a 10k sign on bonus for completing basic and two years mandatory civic duty feeding and housing homeless, cleaning up trash, hurricane hardening our coasts, and or learning to be a medic also, and that should be the requirement of being a well regulated militia and to bare arms, if you can't pass your physical and mental exam, u dont get 2A or student loan forgiveness.

[regandna]

I predict an "income-based" forgiveness plan. If you make $100,000+ a year, I bet nothing gets forgiven. If you are below that, I bet there will be tiers of forgiveness. Probably nothing over 33%, and likely to be on the low end with a flat number. However, there could very well be nothing.

[Jibartik]

I believe they should reward every good citizen with a 10k sign on bonus for completing basic and two years mandatory civic duty feeding and housing homeless, cleaning up trash, hurricane hardening our coasts, and or learning to be a medic also, and that should be the requirement of being a well regulated militia and to bare arms, if you can't pass your physical and mental exam, u dont get 2A or student loan forgiveness.

Yea!

we could give them a social credit sco.. oh wait..

But no seriously I think the american tax system should work like this.

I think you should be able to write off hours you spend volunteering. I think you should be able to write off credit card debt you payed off this year. I think you should be able to write off ALL KINDS of insane crap that helps our economy/country work better when people do it. Computers, desks, office supplies, school supplies, school lunches, kids clothing, all kinds of stuff, recycling, energy use, miles driven, no car owner ship, good grades in school, etc!

The reason is becasue I think if Americans can make money by doing that, they would do it.

It would encourage people to learn the adult way of life, and reward them with money for doing so.

The economy used to be like that, reward single families, etc.

But now it only rewards the richest of the rich, by letting them write off HAIR CUTS of all things.

Trump wrote off 70k for hair cuts smh

Involving the smaller people into this way of life will make them smarter, better neighbors and strengthen our nation and system, teaching them about savings, and paying taxes properly at a much earlier age.

You wouldn't have to tax sugary beverages, you can give tax breaks to those that dont buy them!

I really think that the system should work like this.

[HalflingSpergand]

I thinks it will be skin shader related

[GinnasP99]

If you have large amounts of outstanding student loan debt, you suck at winning.

[Bonethunder]

No student loan should ever be forgiven, a portion of your ( Imaginary ) Salary should be taken out each paycheck and refusal to pay should result in a warrant for your arrest.

[HalflingSpergand]

Jobless losers/moochers dont really care anyways as retardedkitten laid out for us. And if they do forgive it they will then turn around and get another free loan for something even more tarded they don't ever plan on paying.

[imperiouskitten]

Spoken like a true loser.

RUDE. I am doing fine thank you very much. Banking on those loans being forgiven and I reckon I'll be right.

[Jibartik]

They should make us vote.

Should we forgive student loan?

or should the goverment use all the money we'd forgive student loans with, to increase the salary for public school teachers.

Lets out these hypocrites.

[Bardp1999]

I miss Trump already

[Cassawary]

They should make us vote.

Should we forgive student loan?

or should the goverment use all the money we'd forgive student loans with, to increase the salary for public school teachers.

Lets out these hypocrites.

good lord NO. we barely deserve to vote for representatives.

you propose disaster! :eek:

[Jibartik]

I mean that decision would cause us to explode in existential loop so yea haha

[regandna]

No student loan should ever be forgiven, a portion of your ( Imaginary ) Salary should be taken out each paycheck, and refusal to pay should result in a warrant for your arrest.

If their salary is "imaginary," then why would the debt also owed not be "imaginary," and thus should be forgiven? Provide more insight into your imaginary logic. It seems one sided.

[FatherSioux]

I hope they push for some woke form of this. Race based would be best, that way most Americans will wake up to this initial ripple of Bolshevik bullshit that we're entertaining here.

[Cassawary]

I hope they push for some woke form of this. Race based would be best, that way most Americans will wake up to this initial ripple of Bolshevik bullshit that we're entertaining here.

The worst part is OP misused over/under despite being a high-flying stock gamblin' man. :p

[hobart]

The problem with student loan debt (on GSLs) is that the interest rates are too high for a government-backed product where the debtor has little protection and recourse.

Restructure of existing debt to lower rates with forgiveness of penalties and interest to those who get back on track is the best solution.

None of this addresses why colleges are so expensive and get away with funneling poor and working class kids into big debt for shitty degree programs that have low demand.

Free CC tuition for those who make grades is probably the best answer. But for those who aren't smart enough to funnel that into some sort of trade or certificate program that is in demand (and spend two years getting an associates degree in communications) are only establishing the new baseline and essentially replacing the high school diploma.

[FatherSioux]

Some people in this country still don't get why we shouldn't allow the Government to run societal institutions. They are fucking terrible at it and end up voting for their own jobs to be secure and overpaid. It's a joke.

[bubur]

$0 and if they give everyone the $1400 it will come with another bloated relief bill passed by a supermajority that will hike social security and tax that you’ll probably lose an additional 10’s of thousands to over the years

bright side u can buy lube with the $1400 up front to make it a little easier

[Cecily]

RUDE. I am doing fine thank you very much. Banking on those loans being forgiven and I reckon I'll be right.

I'd be worried about having a loan in default if/when that happens. My guess is loans in good standing are the ones that would be given priority or any repayment assistance. That's an easier sell. Mine's going to be out of default and collection fees waived near the end of the year after 8 months of rehab payments. It's fucking scary taking accountability for $30k, but it's time. Might wanna consider it.

[Kaveh]

Mostly doctors and lawyers with the most student loan debt. Yet another transfer of wealth upward.

Student loans are fucking dumb though. The average undergrad degree is a guarantee of nothing

[Lune]

Most likely a few thousand $$ for undergrad coursework and nothing for professionals. Nothing big enough to require Republican agreement in the Senate.

[Disease]

RUDE. I am doing fine thank you very much. Banking on those loans being forgiven and I reckon I'll be right.

Sure you're doing fine. Taking out loans, never paying them back because you dont care about your credit as an adult... Sounds like you're doing fine.

[Bearsnowls]

I'd imagine 10k, which is nice. I mean, we're all in student loan debt. Unless you're very privileged, you don't get to go to school unless you take debt out. That, and skyrocketing tuition is a huge problem. It's a problem that needs to be addressed. However, my boyfriend and I have debated about this issue. I think that *some* debt forgiveness is needed. He disagrees, constantly saying "nobody pulled a gun to our heads to take this debt out." Some accountability is needed, which I agree with.

[Mblake81]

I'd imagine 10k, which is nice. I mean, we're all in student loan debt. Unless you're very privileged, you don't get to go to school unless you take debt out. That, and skyrocketing tuition is a huge problem. It's a problem that needs to be addressed. However, my boyfriend and I have debated about this issue. I think that *some* debt forgiveness is needed. He disagrees, constantly saying "nobody pulled a gun to our heads to take this debt out." Some accountability is needed, which I agree with.

Or don't attend college. I agree with your boyfriend though.

Who remembers this poster at school?

https://i.imgur.com/yqvyY4R.jpg

The education agenda has made this something of a requirement in our society, with or without the "living large" lifestyle attached to it. I comprehend that some people want debt relief because this is something of a unspoken requirement.

TFW liberal college is roughly equal to a highschool graduation. You can make college tuition free, tax payer funded.. but that would be school. Not special school, just regular school. Then people would create college 2.0 so they can separate themselves from the regulars again.

[Gustoo]

They want to make it easy for people to enroll in further indoctrination programs. So they made student loans.

Because schools benefit from more enrollment, they like degrees that are easy to pass and since these degrees have minimum value, these loans are hard to pay back.

The purpose of student loans and going to school is really more vocational than anything, but people end up getting liberal arts degrees that don't really help them get jobs or succeed in society other than the level of indoctrination they have received.

Most of the institutions are far from their original stated intension. We can talk about the housing market. The home loan was to make it so average Joe can get a home. Now it is used as a business loan to multiple home owners to increase their land holdings and their apartment rental business. It was designed only to be a loan to help more people NOT be renters. By changing the nature of this loan and the applicants that the banks can choose from, their intended target market (people who need homes) is a non attractive client compared to the multiple home owner, who qualifies readily.

So it is quite a mess since these non home owners do not achieve the same level of investment in their community being funneled into serfdom, and then their kids may end up in a liberal arts school and also never get any traction towards making money or whatever, so the entire lot becomes disenfranchised and unhappy. Then they look for things and people to blame for their misfortune and find that indeed the system is pretty fucked up.

At the same time we are talking about improving a system that has proven to be one of the best systems on the planet for upward mobility. I had dinner with a gentlemen last week who grew up in agricultural work camps and now owns multiple agricultural cooling locations on both sides of the border. He described to me how he and his father made their way and how currently the pay in Mexico is around 30k a year for a masters degree level individual and in USA around 100k+ which is accurate.

So it depends on how you want to look at it. There are things that need improvement and a lot of people are taking advantage of the systems in place for personal gain and to the detriment of society, but at the same time, there are a lot of opportunities still on the table for someone who can muster the will to not spend all their time on facebook or project 1999 forums.

Student loan forgiveness? Since they are creating trilions of dollars with the stroke of a pen it makes sense to also create the money to forgive these loans and reduce the debt burden on their people. Bail out the companies, bail out the citizens. If the economy and all of civilization can handle one thing maybe it can handle the other too. What will be the straw that breaks the donkeys back? Hopefully nothing too soon, I have two young kids that I would like to see achieve adulthood before we fall apart.

[Bonethunder]

Need money for college ? Mandatory military service

problem solved

[Gustoo]

Or don't attend college. I agree with your boyfriend though.

Who remembers this poster at school?

https://i.imgur.com/yqvyY4R.jpg

The education agenda has made this something of a requirement in our society, with or without the "living large" lifestyle attached to it. I comprehend that some people want debt relief because this is something of a unspoken requirement.

TFW liberal college is roughly equal to a highschool graduation. You can make college tuition free, tax payer funded.. but that would be school. Not special school, just regular school. Then people would create college 2.0 so they can separate themselves from the regulars again.

Agreed. If college is free it becomes a basic requirement for whatever, and it means all humans need to now dedicate 22 years of their life to sitting in a desk getting pumped with ??? versus the current requirement of 17 to 18 years.

Then we look at trades and those trades only have value because there is not a lot of competition. If we start giving high school kids proper education and teach them plumbing and masonry and machining and construction then those jobs will be less lucrative for the current contractors but we will have more competent useful and happy people doing good work.

100% agree that current BA programs get most people to where they should be when they complete high school. Sad.

[Gwaihir]

I don't believe the question is "should you have to pay student loans back"

We all know you welching mooches don't think you"should" have to honor your obligations.

Did you know in the zulu language, they don't even have a word to describe an obligation?

[Gwaihir]

Like, from a conceptual standpoint, there's no such thing as keeping a promise

[magnetaress]

You can't be a doctor in this country without buying into an exorbitant and inflated institutional system.

We should consider also fixing that.

The loan forgiveness plan is supposed to support people who went to trade schools though. In order to do stuff like welding, computer networking, cosmetology, or like be certified nursing assistants.

I think those trades all run 10-30k for the basic "hours required" and state boards, licenses. The economy took a massive shit and the trades have gone black market. Immigrants, illegals with Carrier air conditioning (the one Trump supported) installed the AC here.

Those should be American jobs and people shouldn't need to go into debt to learn a trade, And should be able to train on the job.

[Gwaihir]

You can't be a doctor in this country without buying into an exorbitant and inflated institutional system.

We should consider also fixing that.

The loan forgiveness plan is supposed to support people who went to trade schools though. In order to do stuff like welding, computer networking, cosmetology, or like be certified nursing assistants.

I think those trades all run 10-30k for the basic "hours required" and state boards, licenses. The economy took a massive shit and the trades have gone black market. Immigrants, illegals with Carrier air conditioning (the one Trump supported) installed the AC here.

Those should be American jobs and people shouldn't need to go into debt to learn a trade, And should be able to train on the job.
Yeah, when I was taking my diversity and humanities credits, I took this class called Race Class Sex and Gender, it was an integrated class for 15 credits that I smashed an A on and earned the sociology student of the year award for, despite not even believing sociology is a science.....

One part of the class introduced the concept of importing highly skilled careers internationally to intentionally depress the earning potential of historically lucrative career paths for the sake of equality.

I successfully argued against it indicating it would lead to inability for USA to homegrown doctors, and professors due to cost of tuition for post graduate studies and would actually perpetuate inequality due to only rich people being able to afford to continue these career paths.

If you want to be a doctor, go to medical school in a third world shithole: it's both cheaper, and less burdened with busywork and clown world mental gymnastic curriculum

[magnetaress]

...

Give it a minute, the USA USA USA USA uSA USA is tacking her sails. Her beautiful USA sail.

[I agree]

[Gustoo]

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA is an awesome name for a boat.

[magnetaress]

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA is an awesome name for a boat.

Fuck yeah!

[Gustoo]

Like, from a conceptual standpoint, there's no such thing as keeping a promise

I'm sure that is not the case, but it is a strong point of racist propaganda.

Many cultures do not have DEBT in the same way, but they all have words or promises or obligations of other kinds.

Usury is what we base our economy on and both the Jews and the Greeks outlawed this practice in their civilizations perhaps with good reason, and it is of great concern that we depend on it in ours. Perhaps the Zulu also do not practice Usury.

[Gwaihir]

I'm sure that is not the case, but it is a strong point of racist propaganda.

Many cultures do not have DEBT in the same way, but they all have words or promises or obligations of other kinds.

Usury is what we base our economy on and both the Jews and the Greeks outlawed this practice in their civilizations perhaps with good reason, and it is of great concern that we depend on it in ours. Perhaps the Zulu also do not practice Usury.
The Jews never outlawed usury, they only outlawed it between dealings with other Jews.

You know; racist double standards.

[Gustoo]

The intent was for it not to exist, because for whatever reason they decided it was bad. Same with Greek society.

Back to the student loans. Since we're in fantasy land making trillions of dollars I dont
see why they don't go ahead and delete the student loan debt too.

I cover mine and my wife's and it is not a significant burden though it is something in the back of my mind always itching a little bit.

I think it will be popular with the youngsters so they may hold off on this policy until later in the term to prep for re-election?

Just like trump won the house and senate and presidency, Biden has his chance to show that his party doesn't want to accomplish anything. We weren't in coronavirus world yet though so it isn't apples to apples, but still.

Its nice when they don't have excuses.

[Cassawary]

Just like trump won the house and senate and presidency, Biden has his chance to show that his party doesn't want to accomplish anything. We weren't in coronavirus world yet though so it isn't apples to apples, but still.

Its nice when they don't have excuses.

need 60 to pass anything without reconciliation which is limited to 1 a year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Npo0cmp-VY

[bubur]

Did you know in the zulu language, they don't even have a word to describe an obligation?

they don't really have a good word for "earn" in indonesian either

there's phrases tho

"get money"
"have money"
"produce"
"create"

this is infinitely more interesting than what we are talking about

[Mblake81]

here is a fun fact (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NdCMwSPhUw)

[Gustoo]

Produce and Create are good.

Earn may be rooted more in being "granted" something say from a serf-lord or something.

Definitely OT.

[Toehammer]

1.6 trillion in student loans, why not?

1.2 trillion car loan debt, why not?

16 trillion in mortgage debt, why not?

printing press goes whirrrrrrrrr

The government is solely responsible for the student loan crisis and now have the cure! Same with economic shutdown, gov't causes the problem has the appeasing handout... reminds me of a movie villain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEqDSC7DJJA Would pay good money to see Biden/Harris/Pelosi in black tuxedos say "the antidote for the poison you just drank, hahahaha".

People who bank on loan forgiveness are societal leeches. Good citizens pay them back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62i2feu9fxk best takedown of a candidate I have ever seen. Previous posts are also correct, the majority of loans are held by high earners, doctors, lawyers, etc, just wealth transfer up. Also, sending the message that loans can be forgiven is like signaling to a kid it is ok to shit his pants instead of toilet training. Terrible message to society.

Neither political party in Washington cares anymore about debt... they both run it up with no regard for the future. Right spends too much on military, left spends too much on everything else. 600 bucks for ~150 million Americans = 90 billion, but they wanted 2.3 trillion plus!!! They could have just spent 2.3 trillion and given 15k to every adult for the laughs.

You can't make this shit up... it is so crazy. Not enough Friedmans, too many Krugmans.

If government had kept its incompetent hands out of the college loan game, college would be half or one-third of the current price, and administrative glut wouldn't exist... probably a lot less humanities/social science majors too, really better for society in every way imaginable.

[bubur]

was looking at the etymology of the word for money "uang"

from the malay "wang" that is probably derived from the chinese 王 (wáng)

then i stumbled on this really crazy article that basically said wang means big ol hangin dingus and if ur still reading this post ur dad pumps ur butt

yo that's crazy

[Gustoo]

If government had kept its incompetent hands out of the college loan game, college would be half or one-third of the current price, and administrative glut wouldn't exist... probably a lot less humanities/social science majors too, really better for society in every way imaginable.

Good point.

What is going on is very concerning.

[FatherSioux]

Educational inflation is very real. It's seeped down to the elementary level already. Parents thinking their kid needs to know how to read in the third trimester, Spanish immersion classes for 6 year olds, the demand for all students to volunteer any and all free-time toward the Holy-Grail of college.

[Gwaihir]

Im more concerned about the educational endeavors of my daughters would be husbands than I am their education. Women are net takers on the system.

The fiscal sum from a tax standpoint on women is a negative number

[Gwaihir]

13919

[Gustoo]

In the case of a mother it is simply because their work is not paid and taxed and documented accordingly so I don't understand the purpose of pointing this out.

While some hyper involved parents want their kids to get a lot out of their primary education, the fact is that most high school educations are inadequate, though they could and should be.

Those third trimester readers are on a different track all together with that level of parental involvement they can be homeschooled and have an AA degree by the time they are 17 even with average intelligence and a bachelors in another year and a half.

So that is a different topic all together. Our costly public education system doesn't get us much, then we take student loans out, and they don't get us much with a BA. Then people get masters degrees who aren't smart because they get you more money in a government job.

Over 50% of jobs in USA are government jobs either local or federal. That means over 50% of all peoples whole livelihood depends on never having a felony or maybe even a misdemeanor which would disqualify them from those jobs. It's like a perpetual bribe from the government of its people using their money of course.

And then now it isn't even using taxpayers dollars because they're spending way more than the tax revenue.

So why not just cancel taxes too since we can just print whatevs?

:''''(

[Gwaihir]

In the case of a mother it is simply because their work is not paid and taxed and documented accordingly so I don't understand the purpose of pointing this out.

While some hyper involved parents want their kids to get a lot out of their primary education, the fact is that most high school educations are inadequate, though they could and should be.

Those third trimester readers are on a different track all together with that level of parental involvement they can be homeschooled and have an AA degree by the time they are 17 even with average intelligence and a bachelors in another year and a half.

So that is a different topic all together. Our costly public education system doesn't get us much, then we take student loans out, and they don't get us much with a BA. Then people get masters degrees who aren't smart because they get you more money in a government job.

Over 50% of jobs in USA are government jobs either local or federal. That means over 50% of all peoples whole livelihood depends on never having a felony or maybe even a misdemeanor which would disqualify them from those jobs. It's like a perpetual bribe from the government of its people using their money of course.

And then now it isn't even using taxpayers dollars because they're spending way more than the tax revenue.

So why not just cancel taxes too since we can just print whatevs?

:''''(


The education system, itself, is engineered to punish people who quickly conceptualize, synthesize, and integrate what is being taught. Keeping the astute burdened with busy work until the dullards can finally "get it"

[Gustoo]

stupid image]

Yeah dude. I mean I understand how you get brain rot from the internet and all, but please understand that not contributing tax money has nothing to do with the work that a woman does.

Consider the fact that most men are raised by women and you may realize that all those super valuable tax revenue generators (men) are only the result of the women that raised them, since their father was of course away at work.

In that sense, women produce men who produce tax, so all tax revenue from the man is attributed to the woman.

This whole argument is totally ridiculous anyways I am just kinda playing around with it.

Men and Women are human beings that coexist for mutual benefit across the board. Infographic toxic shit like this make me physically ill.

My wife has zero down time ever in the raising of our two kids. They will slowly become less dependent on her but essentially she performs "unpaid" labor well beyond the limitations of all labor laws and would probably gross around 300k if she was monetarily compensated based on her competency.

[magnetaress]

Gustoo dropping reality down here.

[Gustoo]

The education system, itself, is engineered to punish people who quickly conceptualize, synthesize, and integrate what is being taught. Keeping the astute burdened with busy work until the dullards can finally "get it"

Agreed it caters to the lowest common denominator.

[Gwaihir]

Yeah dude. I mean I understand how you get brain rot from the internet and all, but please understand that not contributing tax money has nothing to do with the work that a woman does.

Consider the fact that most men are raised by women and you may realize that all those super valuable tax revenue generators (men) are only the result of the women that raised them, since their father was of course away at work.

In that sense, women produce men who produce tax, so all tax revenue from the man is attributed to the woman.

This whole argument is totally ridiculous anyways I am just kinda playing around with it.

Men and Women are human beings that coexist for mutual benefit across the board. Infographic toxic shit like this make me physically ill.

My wife has zero down time ever in the raising of our two kids. They will slowly become less dependent on her but essentially she performs "unpaid" labor well beyond the limitations of all labor laws and would probably gross around 300k if she was monetarily compensated based on her competency.

Question is: does that contribution require higher education, for what will essentially be a secondary or tertiary hobby for women?

Mind you, in my situation, I'm doing both the parenting and the earning, as my children's mother is a drug addict who led my children into squallor with the courts' default position of women as nurturers.

Despite your frail stomach.

[Gustoo]

It depends on the quality of the results you are after. For some mothers or parents it is a full time position that benefits greatly from higher education and certainly from continued education.

I don't see it as a hobby for anyone, either it is a very painstaking (yet ultimately rewarding) occupation or a resented chore. The results of these different approaches are quite evident.

[Gustoo]

Regardless of the approach, most women are going to spend most of their best years raising children, which is a job that demands perpetual on call status except in the case of people that can have a full time Nanny which changes the dynamic further.

This effectively puts a stake through the heart of career development which is most productive in the 20's and 30's which are baby making and raising times for women, which will limit their overall ability to produce taxable income.

When there isn't a parent to raise a kid, the societal result is much more highly negative as we see from the products of our public education system. (they're really good at iPads)

There are other approaches than the totally insane completely isolated way we operate families (in general) in the united states but I am talking about the current society that produced the data used in that offensive infographic.

[Gwaihir]

It depends on the quality of the results you are after. For some mothers or parents it is a full time position that benefits greatly from higher education and certainly from continued education.

I don't see it as a hobby for anyone, either it is a very painstaking (yet ultimately rewarding) occupation or a resented chore. The results of these different approaches are quite evident.

Of course, but the whole concept of student loan debt forgiveness revolves around removing the consequence for the latter.

People who actually take their responsibilities seriously don't need the forgiveness to begin with

[Gwaihir]

And before we go any further on the "offensiveness" of the infographic, perhaps we should consider the "offensiveness" of running on a platform of promising student loan forgiveness, and then not following through on it, because that's what's going to happen by the "offended" party.

Words are cheap as fuck, and are in no way reflective of principle if unexecuted.

[Gustoo]

I don't know what your infographic has to do with the actual topic of this thread.

I agree that student loan forgiveness and the very concept is a mistake.

Make laws and structures that make sense. Its the same with "legalizing" illegal immigrants. Make an actual process for legalization rather than just blanket approving everyone that paid no heed to the laws that were in place.

Same deal, same kind of mistake. It is OK if it is a 1 time thing but zero effort has been put into actually creating a better system.

Loan forgiveness and a total revamp of the system would be 100% A-OK to me. Loan forgiveness and no changes is dumb.

The info graphic is offensive to me because I love women and it seems to presenting data in a way to make the spurious implication that they are inferior because of their overall status as a "tax burden" which simply shows the weakness of the tool being used to measure value rather than the thing being measured.

Its the same problem with using the stock market as an indication of the well being of society which we know is not the case. Our current civilization seems to be close to crumbling while the stock market is doing fantastic. Its because the tool (stock market) is inappropriately being used to assess other areas of the world or economy.

[Gwaihir]

You're making the assumption that one cannot love women while simultaneously making the objective conclusion that having to repay the money's lendedfromRothschild to pay for a forgiveness program would disproportionately fall upon the heads of men.

I love women too. I have a wife and 4 daughters.

If you don't intend to dedicate yourself to the life of a laborer and pay back the money's borrowed, don't pursue higher education.

The reason why the student loan crisis is a crisis, is because more women than ever are pursuing college educations, yet they aren't paying it back in the form of the actual loan payments OR taxes that could be used to pay for a forgiveness program.

That's how they're related

[Gustoo]

Thanks for explaining the relation.

Is there data that shows women default on their student loans more than men?

Actual question not rhetorical.

[Gustoo]

Also I didn’t know the student loan crisis was a crisis outside of the crisis of the middle class ceasing to exist which the loan thing would be more a symptom of than a cause. Does anyone think student loans are actually the cause of bad stuff or just think it would be nice not to pay them?

[Gwaihir]

Thanks for explaining the relation.

Is there data that shows women default on their student loans more than men?

Actual question not rhetorical.

That's a good question and I don't know.

I would imagine it's a verboten subject to talk about academically though

[magnetaress]

Also I didn’t know the student loan crisis was a crisis outside of the crisis of the middle class ceasing to exist which the loan thing would be more a symptom of than a cause. Does anyone think student loans are actually the cause of bad stuff or just think it would be nice not to pay them?

I think the loans and the government allowing and regulating them very poorly, are a part of the problem, problematic for sure.

I don't think the loan business should be legalized the way it especially is now. And loane givers should be somewhat more liable than loan recievers. I would prefer loans being outright illegal, but I also acknowledge how big international business has to interface with the loan markets to kinda of even be economically viable and how America needs access to international markets in order to not permanently spiral into recession as the rest of the globe kinda spins on.

[Znakebite]

I won't qualify because I am a privileged white male and make just enough to not be considered poor.

[bubur]

unless the forgiveness is contingent upon working for a specific number of years in certain professions, student loan forgiveness is considered taxable income (unless they change the law before they do anything more)

so question to the committee: does the hypothetical exist that they forgive $10k to someone who was barely making minimum payments and such a person is unable to fit the $3k tax bill? or more if it hikes them into the next tax bracket? 10k is pipedream anyway but since we're talkin about it

[Gustoo]

That's a good question and I don't know.

I would imagine it's a verboten subject to talk about academically though

If you don't have data, then why are you making that connection between the anti woman infographic and the student loan forgiveness?

Mblake81 I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I will clarify what I was trying to say.

I was trying to say that people in USA need to spend a lot of time in the education system. The purpose of this system is supposedly to prepare us for the world around us and to make us able to get jobs, and be productive.

Right now a high school diploma isn't good for much, and a bachelors degree not good for much more.

I was agreeing with another posters comment where he supposed if college was free, it would essentially be the same thing as high school. You wouldn't be legally requried to do it (i assume) but it would be considered a basic pre-requisite for some quantity of jobs, especially government (federal, state, local) jobs. So the benefit to the students would be minimal but the time sink would be extended.

Most people aren't going to college because they want educatin. They are going to college because they want a stamp next to their name that helps them get qualified for higher paying jobs.

Banking on being a social media celebrity is the same as banking on being any other kind of celebrity. Its a long shot bet.

[Gwaihir]

https://ww3.aauw.org/research/deeper-in-debt/

Well, without going into further detail this seems to indicate women hold 2/3rds of the entire student loan debt market in the US

[magnetaress]

What about people with learning disabilities. Like, I know a lot of them and a traditional Dr. ate or PhD is likely out of my reach due to memory bandwidth. Google really enables me.

Just don't personally like the precedence all this emphasis on 50 years of continuous education is placing on us.

[Gustoo]

I won't qualify because I am a privileged white male and make just enough to not be considered poor.

What makes you say that? You qualified for the coravirus relief money, you are likely to qualify for student loan forgiveness if any comes around.

[Gustoo]

What about people with learning disabilities. Like, I know a lot of them and a traditional Dr. ate or PhD is likely out of my reach due to memory bandwidth. Google really enables me.

Depending on the field you can probably find a school that you can complete a doctorate program in, these days. I've seen legitimately dumb people acquire masters degrees.

But to what end? It seems like it is only worth doing if you are seeking a vocation that demands it for success or if it is a requirement to fulfill your pride.

[magnetaress]

Depending on the field you can probably find a school that you can complete a doctorate program in, these days. I've seen legitimately dumb people acquire masters degrees.

But to what end? It seems like it is only worth doing if you are seeking a vocation that demands it for success or if it is a requirement to fulfill your pride.

I was a perpetual C-D student. I really feel like I was left behind because I learned by doing and not wrote memorization. I can't communicate how hard basic memory stuff is.

I picked up shooting and yoga really quick tho.

Just feel like we ignore a massive segment of our society with modern educational expectations. It really is a subtle form of disenfranchisement.

[Gustoo]

The educational expectations are not modern they are antiquated and I agree. The system we have today was designed around producing factory workers that could manage a factory job (sit still for 8 hours follow basic instructions) it is not a system designed to create innovative problem solvers.

Historically, "education" has been weaponized since basically forever. We used to threaten people with death if they don't go to school. We might have told them back then that it was to help them get jobs and stuff too.

The main thing you get from school is being taught to sit still and stay out of trouble. Mission accomplished. All other goals are secondary. The system we have is probably working as intended.

Or not who knows.

[magnetaress]

The educational expectations are not modern they are antiquated and I agree. The system we have today was designed around producing factory workers that could manage a factory job (sit still for 8 hours follow basic instructions) it is not a system designed to create innovative problem solvers.

Historically, "education" has been weaponized since basically forever. We used to threaten people with death if they don't go to school. We might have told them back then that it was to help them get jobs and stuff too.

The main thing you get from school is being taught to sit still and stay out of trouble. Mission accomplished. All other goals are secondary. The system we have is probably working as intended.

Or not who knows.

Gotchya. I see what you mean.

[Caroll]

1.6 trillion in student loans, why not?

1.2 trillion car loan debt, why not?

16 trillion in mortgage debt, why not?

printing press goes whirrrrrrrrr

The government is solely responsible for the student loan crisis and now have the cure! Same with economic shutdown, gov't causes the problem has the appeasing handout... reminds me of a movie villain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEqDSC7DJJA Would pay good money to see Biden/Harris/Pelosi in black tuxedos say "the antidote for the poison you just drank, hahahaha".

People who bank on loan forgiveness are societal leeches. Good citizens pay them back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62i2feu9fxk best takedown of a candidate I have ever seen. Previous posts are also correct, the majority of loans are held by high earners, doctors, lawyers, etc, just wealth transfer up. Also, sending the message that loans can be forgiven is like signaling to a kid it is ok to shit his pants instead of toilet training. Terrible message to society.

Neither political party in Washington cares anymore about debt... they both run it up with no regard for the future. Right spends too much on military, left spends too much on everything else. 600 bucks for ~150 million Americans = 90 billion, but they wanted 2.3 trillion plus!!! They could have just spent 2.3 trillion and given 15k to every adult for the laughs.

You can't make this shit up... it is so crazy. Not enough Friedmans, too many Krugmans.

If government had kept its incompetent hands out of the college loan game, college would be half or one-third of the current price, and administrative glut wouldn't exist... probably a lot less humanities/social science majors too, really better for society in every way imaginable.

You've posted the same nonsense at least three other times. Modern monetary policy doesn't care about debt. The fact you mention Friedman reveals your lack of basic economics.

You sound upset and angry at a lot of people. I hope your problems get better.

[Gustoo]

At the very least, people that care about education and actually teaching understand the difficulties of trying to force everyone to sit still in class. It is a known fact that people learn much better through other means than reading a class textbook and then answering multiple choice questions about it. But we still force kids to do that. Why? I don't know. We do it though.

Its basically a known fact that it is dumb, and that it doesn't teach anyone anything. Some kids are good at it. Some aren't. It doesn't matter how long someone sits in a classroom, they never get good at answering those questions when taught that way, or at least they can never compete with the kids that have a brain that is compatible with this activity.

[azeth]

I'd like to know how it works if I just this year paid off the last of my student loans, and then they forgive student loans?

So I'm being financially punished for putting a lot of money toward my loans, versus going out to eat buying a new car, buying a new house etc...?

[Gustoo]

They might go ahead and throw you a bone Azeth.

But since your privledged maybe you would be selected to re-engage your student loan debt and start paying off someone elses loan for charity?

Maybe.

For reals though no reason to ask a theoryquest question like that since we're only talking out of our butts right now anyways. You might be SOL (but you're not, you were blessed with the ability and brain and stuff that allowed you to plan well enough to pay off your loan) or you might get a handout too. Who knows. Either way you're student debt is covered so grats.

[DoodyLich666]

I see no way that our current gov would ever forgive student debts. They want a cut of that shit.

[StinkyGreenBud]

You are a sucker if you went to college in this day and age.

[Gustoo]

I see no way that our current gov would ever forgive student debts. They want a cut of that shit.

They don't make money on it. These loans cost the government money, the interest rates are low enough and collection is challenging enough that they lose money overall either way.

The loan process is a way to loan money to us in order for us to pay the government for our own further indoctrination. It's a good scheme. It lets us be eligible for a number of higher level government positions that we would otherwise not be eligible for.

When it comes to loan forgiveness they will probably be printing money (with pen stroke) to pay themselves, or buying the debt from themselves. So Freddy Mae / whatever organization gets paid in full and "the people" is holding the debt.

It will all be conveniently piled into the coronavirus debt package, when we go and forgive ourselves our own debt.

Its safe to say the net result will be "the people" being sold down the river. Somehow.

[imperiouskitten]

You are a sucker if you went to college in this day and age.

Nah, I really don't think so. It depends on what you got out of it at the least.

Even though my education hasn't paid for itself in cashola, it gave me the bourgouis experiences to fit in with rich folks and get along in life. It also provided a time in my life to get super duper fit, get a couple big athletic achievements and enjoy the flower of my teenage beauty and all that. It did also get me jobs, since it's a STEM degree, although since lab work pays so badly I never worked in my field at all. Thanks to it, I feel pretty comfortable among ppl of any stratum and have a very sound scientific basis to my worldview, which as I watch the mass descend into madness and confusion over semantic arguments and the " discreditation of science " over climate change is something I definitely prize highly.

I think the whole shipping off and doing the dorm experience thing at an upscale institution is pretty good for most people. That's not to say you couldn't totally fuck yourself by going to a shitty school without a scholarship and being uber in debt and no better off, like at say an Arizona State, but speaking as a case who didn't last long in the professional world I still say my education was worthwhile. I would argue that it's such a great formative experience cluster that it probably would be a wise state investment into its young citizens.

[cs616]

Didn't Biden help pass the legislation that made it impossible to erase student loans through bankruptcy? I'm going to go with doubtful we see any student loan forgiveness.

That said, as someone with no debt who traded 4 years of my life participating in pointless middle eastern wars for free college, I wouldn't be opposed to it. Expecting coddled high schoolers to understand the ramifications of taking on potentially decades of debt to pursue an education they've been told their entire lives they need is unreasonable, and is burdening an entire generation. I'd rather socialize the losses of individuals than of corporations, which is something we don't see to have a problem with.

Lets be real, at this point the money is all made up anyway, whats another trillion?

[imperiouskitten]

Didn't Biden help pass the legislation that made it impossible to erase student loans through bankruptcy? I'm going to go with doubtful we see any student loan forgiveness.

That said, as someone with no debt who traded 4 years of my life participating in pointless middle eastern wars for free college, I wouldn't be opposed to it. Expecting coddled high schoolers to understand the ramifications of taking on potentially decades of debt to pursue an education they've been told their entire lives they need is unreasonable, and is burdening an entire generation. I'd rather socialize the losses of individuals than of corporations, which is something we don't see to have a problem with.

Lets be real, at this point the money is all made up anyway, whats another trillion?

bolded the bingo. The college finance system is indeed a scam of massive proportions perpetrated on the young and underprivileged. I was ALWAYS going to do it because my parents didn't go to college and bought the hype. The costs are dramatically inflated vis a vis the federal financing system, and the institutions are taking advantage of the students through the government. It's pretty wicked.

As for what Biden did in the past, it doesn't matter. At all. He is not a man of principles or even strong opinions. The question is which way does the wind blow today?

[Gwaihir]

Didn't Biden help pass the legislation that made it impossible to erase student loans through bankruptcy? I'm going to go with doubtful we see any student loan forgiveness.

That said, as someone with no debt who traded 4 years of my life participating in pointless middle eastern wars for free college, I wouldn't be opposed to it. Expecting coddled high schoolers to understand the ramifications of taking on potentially decades of debt to pursue an education they've been told their entire lives they need is unreasonable, and is burdening an entire generation. I'd rather socialize the losses of individuals than of corporations, which is something we don't see to have a problem with.

Lets be real, at this point the money is all made up anyway, whats another trillion?

I'd rather not socialize the losses of either. Why is it either or? Why not neither?

[Kaveh]

Didn't Biden help pass the legislation that made it impossible to erase student loans through bankruptcy? I'm going to go with doubtful we see any student loan forgiveness.

That said, as someone with no debt who traded 4 years of my life participating in pointless middle eastern wars for free college, I wouldn't be opposed to it. Expecting coddled high schoolers to understand the ramifications of taking on potentially decades of debt to pursue an education they've been told their entire lives they need is unreasonable, and is burdening an entire generation. I'd rather socialize the losses of individuals than of corporations, which is something we don't see to have a problem with.

Lets be real, at this point the money is all made up anyway, whats another trillion?

It’s held by lawyers and doctors primarily

We always get duped into bailing out the most irresponsible in our society, which isn’t the welfare queens, single moms, addicts, or homeless, but the bankers, lobbyists, and brokers.

[Toehammer]

You've posted the same nonsense at least three other times. Modern monetary policy doesn't care about debt. The fact you mention Friedman reveals your lack of basic economics.

You sound upset and angry at a lot of people. I hope your problems get better.

Angry, says the foaming-mouth zealot who responded with something about obesity to a previous post of mine :rolleyes: deflection at work

Modern monetary theory is academic economic nerd fantasies that should never be put into practice. Friedman runs circles around these MMT fools, yourself included.

[Toehammer]

They might go ahead and throw you a bone Azeth.

But since your privledged maybe you would be selected to re-engage your student loan debt and start paying off someone elses loan for charity?

Maybe.

For reals though no reason to ask a theoryquest question like that since we're only talking out of our butts right now anyways. You might be SOL (but you're not, you were blessed with the ability and brain and stuff that allowed you to plan well enough to pay off your loan) or you might get a handout too. Who knows. Either way you're student debt is covered so grats.

Paid off 90k in student loans, but there is no way they will help those who responsibly paid our debts. It is slightly insulting to the responsible people, but I won't be as pissed as the guy who wrecked Elizabeth Warren; he should be proud that he is superior to his friend, while torpedoing a terrible candidate. All it will take is a few tweets from some well-followed/adored radical about how it is a transfer of wealth to future doctors/lawyers (which is true), and it will be shelved another 3 years until they need more young/dumb votes, with claims of "we have to have patience, and do this right". Similar to the "rampant" and "institutionalized" racism "problem", reparations, and every other failed promise/issue... it will recycle in 2023/4 when they need useful idiots to vote for them. If one can't see this, you're not old and experienced enough to pick out the pattern. The right does this too, with fear of violent crime, etc.

What the government has reliably proven is that it can cause a problem and then offer you some shitty conciliatory sorry or half-cure.

Azeth, you won't get anything, which is good. Just pay them off like any other responsible adult, and be proud of being a net producer, not a parasite.

[zahirisoolw]

Hi! I read a couple of comments and realized that it would be nice to share my personal experience, so now you are reading my comment! Education is a very important thing nowadays, but sometimes education is very expensive and not everyone can afford it. There is a great way out called mortgage. A mortgage is a so-called student loan, but it is very important to know where you can securely get a mortgage. My personal recommendation is to get a mortgage on the website-Mortgage Broker Manchester (https://www.Manchestermoneyman.com). Very reliable and profitable. I recommend it !!!

[Mead]

Hi! I read a couple of comments and realized that it would be nice to share my personal experience, so now you are reading my comment! Education is a very important thing nowadays, but sometimes education is very expensive and not everyone can afford it. There is a great way out called mortgage. A mortgage is a so-called student loan, but it is very important to know where you can securely get a mortgage. My personal recommendation is to get a mortgage on the website-Mortgage Broker Manchester (https://www.Manchestermoneyman.com). Very reliable and profitable. I recommend it !!!

thanks for share

[Gwaihir]

It’s held by lawyers and doctors primarily

We always get duped into bailing out the most irresponsible in our society, which isn’t the welfare queens, single moms, addicts, or homeless, but the bankers, lobbyists, and brokers.

We totally need to socialize the losses of a private for profit company fronting money to post-graduate degree holding welchers.

The owner of the company I work for has a real close friend who works administration for the catholic parish in the most affluent area of the Bay whose daughter racked up 120k in student loans pursuing a Masters in Digital Media. She works in an middle management position for a fortune 500 company now, and she's an avid supporter of student loan forgiveness.

[Gwaihir]

For clarity, Navient is not a federal organization and Jack Remondi isn't hurting for money.

https://www1.salary.com/Jack-Remondi-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-NAVIENT-CORP.html

[Kaveh]

If you take a student loan, or any form of debt, it should never be cleared. Bankruptcy should result in the death penalty

Just kidding, but seriously debt obesity out of wedlock child making divorce owning a social media account, many many things and more need to come with physical consequences to your person (if you are male). Females get a pass, but I would strike the rest of you with a switch until you learn what manhood is about. That’s how dad did it. That’s how America does it

[maskedmelon]

Ok,

Now that we have "sensible people" in office. What's the over/under on Student Loan Forgiveness' final number?

Initially we had a proposal for ALL student loans being forgiven.

That was revised to 50k

Then 10k.

What's the estimate on the final dollar value of student loan forgiveness under the Weekend at Biden's Administration?

My money is on 0$ (ZERO).

Going to go with $0 also, Gwardude. The academia industrial complex is infinitely more important than the angsty dregs it poops out. No reprieve for those who make bad life choices after having opted for suboptimal birth conditions. Why should the State subsidize the lives of those who fail to even select a suitable entry for their miserable existence? These are the questions every compassionate progressive must wrassle wit. Namean?

[Gwaihir]

Going to go with $0 also, Gwardude. The academia industrial complex is infinitely more important than the angsty dregs it poops out. No reprieve for those who make bad life choices after having opted for suboptimal birth conditions. Why should the State subsidize the lives of those who fail to even select a suitable entry for their miserable existence? These are the questions every compassionate progressive must wrassle wit. Namean?

Timmy No-Shoes is always gonna have No-Shoes, but he did choose to manifest in 'Merica, Amorite?

[maskedmelon]

Timmy No-Shoes is always gonna have No-Shoes, but he did choose to manifest in 'Merica, Amorite?

Exactly. His fault. Choose rong, get rekt. Simplazthat.

[Gwaihir]

Exactly. His fault. Choose rong, get rekt. Simplazthat.

Well,his name IS "Timmy No-Shoes" and he walked uphill through snow with that name, even if he had Shoes or No-Shoes because his name is "No-Shoes", get it?

I mean, by definition....

Whatever,just feel bad for him, if you're a Decent Human Being!!

[bubur]

big ol 0 buds, with a side of tuition hikes every year

time for new voters to get familiar with a term called grandstanding now that your evil orange scapegoat is gone

[Kaveh]

That or time for people to work and go to community college instead of believing that the middle class lifestyle includes going to college and doing 15 hours a week in coursework while not working (extending childhood for 4 years, not a good idea)

I’d instead suggest conscription at 18 and labor camps for anyone who doesn’t comply within 6 weeks, labor camps automatic for anyone with tattoos or piercings

[HalflingSpergand]

I’d instead suggest conscription at 18 and labor camps for anyone who doesn’t comply within 6 weeks, labor camps automatic for anyone with tattoos or piercings
Pretty good could use fine tuning but it's a good start