Summary of Bard issues

[Jete]

Social / Charmed Pet Aggro
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11990
YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5HLlJnxMsY

Currently there is an issue with both Social aggro and charmed pet aggro. What is happening is the charmed pet is somehow transferring much more aggro to its master than it should. As far as the social aggro goes, mobs for some reason do not assist each other when a charmed pet attacks one of their "friends."
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Alenia's Disenchanting Melody
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1667

Alenia's Disenchanting Melody doesn't strip magical effects from anyone in the group its being casted in except the bard when casted.
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Insta-Clickies not Clickable while Singing
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50245#post50245

Insta-Clickies (and them only) and able to be clicked while singing. I believe this is why they started adding .1 cast times to "insta-clicks" but things like insta-invis and manastone we're able to be clicked by singing (and still are)
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Impossible to use a Thrown weapon while Singing
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50248#post50248

It is impossible to use a thrown weapon while singing. One can throw after they turn songs off, but while its on,if you click ranged attack- nothing happens. Tested with throwing daggers and shuriken.
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Bard instrument animation not seen by others
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4942

Name says it all!
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* This was fixed and is an issue again, re-posted. *
Songs not interrupting on the user's end-
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3744
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=410

When a bard song gets interrupted / fizzles, it doesn't stop the cast bar for the Bard.
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Solon's Bewitching Bravura (39 Charm) Mana Cost
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16492

The mana cost has been reduced to 20, which is apparently classic. However, there are two problems still. Firstly, the spell says it costs 60 mana still when you look at the scroll or alt+click the spell to see its description, and secondly, if you have less than 60 mana, it tells you that you have insufficient mana to cast the spell. Still if you cast the spell you lose only 20 mana, but the check that verifies you have at least the amount of mana needed to cast the spell needs to be changed from 60 to 20.
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[Jete]

FIXED-UNK DATE
Lyssa's Solidarity of Vision
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50253#post50253

It's really broken... click the link for more info =P.
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FIXED-Aug 24, 2010
Songs wearing off on recast
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12975

"Bard songs are doing the "... wears off" if I cast the same one again."
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FIXED-Aug 24, 2010
Bard Mana Regeneration
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=109348#post109348

Bards are able to regenerate mana currently through the use of many songs / spells and effects (Manastone/Mod Rods) that are not classic (or current) for them.
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FIXED-Aug 02, 2010
Agilmente's Aria of Eagles
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50241#post50241

This song should require a wind instrument to play. Currently it can be sung with anything.
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FIXED-UNK DATE
Charmed mobs hitting tanks/spell casters rather than intended targets
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6009

This bug will only be seen in a raid / group setting. If a mob is charmed and told to attack a target it will do so. However, if there is a tank (tested with a shadowknight) it will attempt to attack it over and over instead of the intended target. I tried to fraps it but my fraps is broken right now.
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FIXED-UNK DATE
Songs breaking if they fade directly after recast
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1666

Bard songs will fade if the song "breaks" even if it is recasted. For example-
I cast hymn of restoration ( should last 4 ticks or 12 seconds )
I wait 8.2 seconds ( 3.2 seconds left on Hymn of restoration buff )
The new Hymn of restoration hits and shows in the buff bar.
The old Hymn of restoration fades at almost the exact same time. ( Your wounds stop healing )
The new Hymn of restoration fades. ( lasted about .2 seconds as a buff)
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FIXED-UNK DATE
MR Debuffs ( excluding Malos line ) not stacking with lvl 39 Charm-
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2191
YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NMTwZQnN1U

I believe the issue is that Tash itself doesn't stack with the MR resist debuff that is attached to the lvl 39 Bard charm ( Solon's Bewitching Bravura ).

Both on live and in classic this stacked, or at least the proc from Tash orb did because that's how I used to charm. Malos is currently stacking with charm which is correct, but tash however, is not.
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FIXED-Mar 09, 2010
Songs not interrupting on the user's end-
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3744
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=410

When a bard song gets interrupted / fizzles, it doesn't stop the cast bar for the Bard.
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FIXED-Mar 28, 2010
Shauri's Sonorous Clouding ( Bard invis )
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1664

Shauri's Sonorous Clouding sometimes breaks itself by "casting" the spell instead of continuing to play. The issue is that it can randomly do that in the middle of consistant play. So it will cast, youll be invis, cast, break invis, land- youll be invis- so on and so forth.

It almost always breaks itself initially, especially if played directly after another song. ( Perhaps when the song fades it takes the invis with it )
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FIXED-May 01, 2010
Shauri's Sonorous Clouding Annoyance
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50240#post50240

Invis is now fixed, but will constantly tell you "You feel yourself starting to appear." More of an annoyance than anything.
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FIXED-May 01, 2010
Stamina / Mana Bar Changing from 0% to 100%
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6098

The stam / mana bar continues to "bounce" up and down from 0% -100% (mana sometimes shows the true number.)

As a side note- Bards with manastone can click the manastone ( or a mod rod ) and your mana bar will return for a bit, important to know for a clutch charm.
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FIXED-May 01, 2010
Some horn instrument songs ( Such as Chords of Dissonance / Denon's Disruptive Discord ) have no instrument modifier effect.
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=717

Instruments have no effect for the songs listed above.
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FIXED-May 01, 2010
No notification message when songs land
http://http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6098 (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6098")

Currently, songs are not always showing that they are hitting the mob or effect the user when casted.
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FIXED-May 03, 2010
Songs ending early on a twist-
YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os4bJw4xjYE

Songs will sometimes end early or when another song ends.
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FIXED-May 03, 2010
Hymn of Restoration makes a sounds each time it is played
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50250#post50250

Hymn of Restoration- Each time it heals, you hear the cast sound for it. It should not make any sound when healing.
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FIXED-May 03, 2010
Bard Instrument Effects Not Sticking on Switch
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3743
YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frNKu2dX144
There is an issue with instrument effects for songs. I don't know for sure if its happening with all songs or just offensive songs- anyways, here is the issue.

While using a drum to sing Tuyen's Chant of Flame, the song will hit for 54, without its like 28. However, if I hit the mob with the song and it ticks for 54, then take off the drum, the same song will hit for 28.

In classic and on live currently, Songs that are casted with the instrument on impact ( not on initial cast ) will stay at the instrument effect until the song wears off, unless resung without an instrument or something with a lesser modifier ( such as the bard epic ).

There are songs I cannot test, such as charm to see if one must keep out the wind instrument to continue the "greater" effect.
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[Jete]

Reserved*

[Deric]

Good post Jete~ :)

[Kazoruuk]

Good list. I've found all the bugs to be "tolerable" except the one where as you are casting a song just as the song is about to fade, you do not receive the refreshed song buff. This is especially killer when kiting mobs, and that song just happens to be selos. Getting beat to hell just because you're good at timing your songs "just right" is a bummer.

-Ketchupmonster Spidermanpajamas

[Haynar]

Songs not interrupting on the user's end-
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3744
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=410

When a bard song gets interrupted / fizzles, it doesn't stop the cast bar for the Bard.


Fixed, pending update.

Haynar

[Deric]

Fixed, pending update.

Haynar


:eek:

Eeeeeee!! Finally! Thank you!! :) :D

[Calamitous Oeuvre]

Is this referring too the songs getting stuck bug as well?

[Cantaa]

Please check the manasong DUration too...it doesnt have same duration as the other songs,and the lvl 42 haste song..almost never lands when i cast it...so pretty useless atm,but more important is the manasong..can barely twist 2 songs without fading it,thanks alot for ur work

[Wenai]

Please check the manasong DUration too...it doesnt have same duration as the other songs,and the lvl 42 haste song..almost never lands when i cast it...so pretty useless atm,but more important is the manasong..can barely twist 2 songs without fading it,thanks alot for ur work
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2980&highlight=manasong

[Deric]

Please check the manasong DUration too...it doesnt have same duration as the other songs,and the lvl 42 haste song..almost never lands when i cast it...so pretty useless atm,but more important is the manasong..can barely twist 2 songs without fading it,thanks alot for ur work

Is your brass capped? McVaxius' Berserker Crescendo has a brass component to it that increases the missed note rate on it if your Brass isn't near capped skill range. I noticed this as well when first dinging into 42--and subsequently leveling brass up which seemed to fix the problem of multiple miss notes in a row.

[Jete]

Deric is right on this one- It works fine for me after I capped Brass. Hope that helps!

[Jete]

BTW... I really appreciate the fix Devs... for the longest time I thought Bards were gonna be just like on live, ignored and abused until you crack and give us FM...

You guys ARE gonna give us FM right? =P

[Excision Rottun]

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Songs breaking if they fade directly after recast
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1666

Bard songs will fade if the song "breaks" even if it is recasted. For example-
I cast hymn of restoration ( should last 4 ticks or 12 seconds )
I wait 8.2 seconds ( 3.2 seconds left on Hymn of restoration buff )
The new Hymn of restoration hits and shows in the buff bar.
The old Hymn of restoration fades at almost the exact same time. ( Your wounds stop healing )
The new Hymn of restoration fades. ( lasted about .2 seconds as a buff)
---------------------------------------------------------


This has always occurred on live.

And still does, at least as current as 1 year ago.

[Turbo]

Regarding mana song, if its anything like actual EQ, it only gives mana on the "your mind clears" message. Duration is/should be a non-issue

[Jete]

Bump, added FIXED text... Would REALLY like to see instrument switch issue take priority for Bards next!

[Turbo]

Level 11 alliance song is still broken, can be resisted as a corpse of mine can attest to

[Muldoon]

After consulting with Jete, wondering where our level 14 song "Lyssa's Cataloging Libretto" was located... it may not be in the game. I double checked all vendors in FP, Qeynos, Kelethin, HHK, and Erudin. Anybody find this, and maybe I'm just crazy? :)

[flednat]

It should be located in Erudian. I think it was one of the fiew times i ever went to library.

[Jete]

I was unable to find the song in Erudin.. Are you saying you bought it on live there?

Updated the list, can someone make a link to Bard alliance song bug for me?

[Turbo]

Don't know that anyone made a seperate thread for it. It's broken in the same way enchanter's alliance is/was. It is still resistable at this point and may or may not result in agro either way; it used to but I haven't tried it since

[astuce999]

AE detrimental song range is too small, and mobs hit boxes are too big.

If you have a song active and you replay song over it, it overwrites it but makes it wear off first causing a brief time when song inactive. For example if selos is active and you play a different song and then you play selo`s again, it will make selos wear off and slow you down before speeding up again. This is different from the `song fades as it lands` bug.

Astuce (Astucexx until they fix my name here)

[Finawin]

AE song range reduction is intentional.

Bards shouldn't be kiting entire zones, period.

[guineapig]

What about single target DD song range?
I feel like I have to be within agro range to pull mobs with Brusco's Boastful Bellow.

Don't get me wrong, I make sure to pacify potential adds first but I literally have to run right up to the mob before I'm within range for this particular song. Was it always like this?

[astuce999]

Bellow was always fairly short range, but mobs hit boxes didn't use to be so big. So on live you could effectively bellow kite crocs in oasis at lvl 12, on here, forget it.

AE song range reduction is intentional.

Bards shouldn't be kiting entire zones, period.

AE song range reduction was only done during PoP. Why should bards suffer this nerf in classic? Even with a more traditional AE range (like it should), AE kiting would be very problematic with the mobs being able to hit (as in stun) you from very far away.

cheers,

Astuce

[Jete]

I don't know where you got that quote, but it makes me angry! I find it silly we have to suffer the consequences of classic ( like -40% xp ) and get granted none of the perks... I mean we are still trying to get invis song to work! Let alone be able to kite entire zones ( and there is no reason we shouldn't be able to ). Also, to reply to a poster wayy above this- I have never had selos drop itself to another selo. Usually it just keeps going for me- Or maybe I misunderstood you.

[Finawin]

I don't know what to tell you if you think you should have the ability to kill 100000 mobs at once.

[Deric]

I'd rather just reply to all the level 2 bards that ask me:

"can i horde kite on this server??"

"No. Enjoy! :)"

[astuce999]

Can we have an official response from the devs on this server about the AE range of detrimental songs?

I`ve had to fight the misinformation from other classes towards bards for many years on EQ, I don`t want to do it here, but an official answer as to whether it`s an oversight of applying a PoP nerf to classic, or intended.

thank you in advance,

Astuce

[Excision Rottun]

I'd rather just reply to all the level 2 bards that ask me:

"can i horde kite on this server??"

"No. Enjoy! :)"

Just level up till you have charm and swarm kite.

Can we have an official response from the devs on this server about the AE range of detrimental songs?

I`ve had to fight the misinformation from other classes towards bards for many years on EQ, I don`t want to do it here, but an official answer as to whether it`s an oversight of applying a PoP nerf to classic, or intended.

thank you in advance,

Astuce


This...


AE song range reduction is intentional.

Bards shouldn't be kiting entire zones, period.

Was the official response.

[Deric]

I did not play a Bard on classic-- thus feel no entitlement to be able to kite a zone.

Honestly I leveled Bard to 50 mostly as a duo with my Pally brother~ it made me enjoy the game as a whole much more. :)

[Jete]

I don't know what to tell you if you think you should have the ability to kill 100000 mobs at once.

You could tell me, "It's classic."

[Finawin]

Well, we can't use that argument anymore. It doesn't apply across the boards. It applies where the devs want it to, essentially. So if you have a problem with that you should take it up with them lol

[Gorgetrapper]

Well it seems throughout a lot of "bard issues" nothing is being said, so we are all pretty much left up in the air on whether a fix, or even an acknowledgment that the problems are there.

[Jete]

Best we can do is wait and post more and more... On live and on EMU bards are the buggiest class in EQ. Since GMs / Developers never played a bard they will never understand our frustrations. Take for example loot ( and in the future AAs. ) As far as loot goes we are 100% hybrid, so all the caster gear goes to casters and all the melee gear goes to melee... and all the hybrid gear- oh wait, they forgot to implement that!

[Gorgetrapper]

And this just keeps getting bumped off the list with apparently nothing being looked at.

[Finawin]

Last I heard Haynar was looking at bards already and did a LOT of fixes about the same time you joined

[Haynar]

Bards are still getting looked at. I am not done with them. But they aren't a class I play, so it is more difficult to learn how they are supposed to work. Then its another story to figure out why the code doesn't work like you want it to. Fixing some things which may seem simple, are not so simple.

Haynar

[Gorgetrapper]

Well atleast we got a response atleast, just tired of this topic being pushed down to the bottom and us not being updated on what's been looked at and what hasn't.

Because there's a huge difference in dmg when you're doing 24 with a dot, instead of 48. Or when you're lower, doing 6, instead of about 12 or 13.

[Haynar]

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Songs breaking if they fade directly after recast
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1666

Bard songs will fade if the song "breaks" even if it is recasted. For example-
I cast hymn of restoration ( should last 4 ticks or 12 seconds )
I wait 8.2 seconds ( 3.2 seconds left on Hymn of restoration buff )
The new Hymn of restoration hits and shows in the buff bar.
The old Hymn of restoration fades at almost the exact same time. ( Your wounds stop healing )
The new Hymn of restoration fades. ( lasted about .2 seconds as a buff)


Could I get some explanation of how to reproduce this? I played with it some, and could not get it to do what was described.


Shauri's Sonorous Clouding ( Bard invis )
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1664

Shauri's Sonorous Clouding sometimes breaks itself by "casting" the spell instead of continuing to play. The issue is that it can randomly do that in the middle of consistant play. So it will cast, youll be invis, cast, break invis, land- youll be invis- so on and so forth.

It almost always breaks itself initially, especially if played directly after another song. ( Perhaps when the song fades it takes the invis with it )
----------------------------------------------------------


This should be fixed. There was a random duration for invis, being applied to bard songs when it shouldn't have been. Please evaluate if the fix is working properly.


Bard Instrument Effects Not Sticking on Switch
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3743

There is an issue with instrument effects for songs. I don't know for sure if its happening with all songs or just offensive songs- anyways, here is the issue.



It does look like in the code, the instrument checks are done each time the bard songs pulse. So would have to do a bit of rewriting to fix this. I will investigate more later, but it wasn't an easy fix to do.

Haynar

[Jete]

Update, 22 Apr 2010

Added to Bugs:
-Added all the bug reports from the patch.

-Re-posted "Songs not interrupting on the user's end"

Added to Fixed:
-Moved "Fixed" down a post.

-Bard Invis

Misc:
-Moved "Fixed" down a post.

[astuce999]

To be added to the main post:

Taken from EQClassic.org and it seems everyone agrees:

-Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity, level 32, original era, has no icon. It's a flat 5 mana per pulse.
-Cassindra's Chant of Clarity, level 20, Kunark era, has no icon. This is 2 mana per pulse.
-Cantata of Replenishment, level 55, Kunark era, *is* an icon buff. It's a base of 12 mana per tick at level 55.
-Cantata of Soothing, level 34, Velious era, *is* an icon buffs. Base of 5 mana/tick.

So, from Kunark on out, the "best" mana song will have an icon. It can be twisted with the level 32 pulse-based song, though, so it's kind of the best of both worlds.
---------------------

However much it pisses me off its true. Manasong shouldn't have a song graphic bards can stack manasongs since they are pulse based. It pretty much destroys twisting since you just cast it over and over..... So yay for bard manasong auto-attack /afk!

Sounds like you might have ommited to add it on purpose :-P

Only other thing I want to add at this time is that Chords of Dissonance (lvl 2) is String based, and not Horn based.

cheers,

'Stuce

[Jete]

I don't know what you are talking about.

[Jete]

Update, 03 May 2010

- Tons of updates.

[Jete]

# Haynar: Bard instrument modifiers should now stick to bard dots.
# Haynar: Quick twisting will no longer cause casting bars to disappear.
# Haynar: More Bard Song Interrupt fixes.
# Haynar: More Bard Song Duration fixes.
# Haynar: Bard Song interrupts can now be filtered with the Bard Songs filter in the client

Haynar: Updated spells_us.txt to fix bard songs using spell effects with sound. This will require updated spells_us.txt client side to fix the sound.

Bards rejoice! Moved the previous to fixed.

[Haynar]

Where do we stand?

How the latest patch working?

Haynar

[Jete]

So far so good, I haven't checked tash / charm stacking, but I believe someone in my guild confirmed it.. Twisting is working well, which sucks because I can no longer twist 3 songs and say, "stupid bard bugs!"

I can't thank you enough for fixing the twist issues, I'm sure it was hard as heck to do but it makes me super-happy. I apologize for not making more youtube videos as bug reports, I'm leaving for Florida on Saturday.. which is Friday in the states I think... So I have been getting ready for that. If any other bards would care to chime in to respond to Haynar that would be great!

To the other bards:
I really respect the fact we we're able to pull together as a group and be mature about our class being broken and almost utterly useless some days. It is because of this we were able to get fixed so quickly ( along with Haynar's expertise ). I urge you all to stay this way and create a helpful community to help one-another. No matter what any other class says/does, we are the hardest class to master in EQ as well as the least understood. By creating this type of community we increase the respect given to our class by others and teach one another new things.

[Elendae]

Everything is running so smooth. Now I just have to learn how to actually be a good bard.

[Deathrydar]

Everything looks good and I changed my signature to reflect that! ;)

[Jify]

Twisting is working well, which sucks because I can no longer twist 3 songs and say, "stupid bard bugs!"

Oh no... Does this mean we will be expected to maintain a minimum of 4 twisted songs at raids now? ;D

Well done Haynar! You're the man!

[mitic]

eta on eyecandy fix for bard instrument animation? :)

[Rogean]

Sexcellent Job Mr. Haynar

[Deathrydar]

eta on eyecandy fix for bard instrument animation? :)

Shh! I don't want anything to get broke if he tries to fix this! :p

[JayFiveAlive]

me either, I am happy, yay :)

Still havent tried charm yet though..

[Haynar]

I have tried every way I can, to get the instruments playing animation to work for others. I can only guess it is a client limitation or a packet format that I do not know. So this may not get fixed for some time (if ever). I have experimented several different ways to get it working. But I cannot get animations to work at this point.

Haynar

[Jete]

If this helps...

If you cast a song on another person, they can see their character make the "bard" movements... like if I cast charm on another player, his character will "play" the charm song.

[Haynar]

If this helps...

If you cast a song on another person, they can see their character make the "bard" movements... like if I cast charm on another player, his character will "play" the charm song.
The client could be messed up, and have the packet data backwards, for this case. I can try a few things, putting information in the wrong places of where it normally is for animations.

Haynar

[Jete]

Just let me know if I can help out- I don't mind testing stuff.

[guineapig]

I just want to see the hand drum when I'm using one instead of a flute.

But I can certainly live without it. Thanks for all the fixes!

[Haynar]

Charm uses a different animation, that is not an instrument. I guess I could make it do something more basic, like display the appropriate instrument, when you are playing a song. It would be without the animation though. I can also get on live, and read some packets, and see if there is something they are doing different there. I know a lot has changed over the years, but some things keep the general methods of being done.

Haynar

[Rogean]

What about sending the animation manually with doanim?

[shlence]

I know Jete was heading out so I just wanted to say:

1) Thanks to Haynar for getting us working quite well.
2) As far as I can tell at level 18, every single bard ability I have is working error free.
3) Twisting works perfectly. Which as Jete said, it's now easy to see the bad bards TT.
4) The only thing still wrong is the animations that you were just talking about. Pretty sure that's it.

Thanks again,
Skee | Half Elf Bard

[Haynar]

What about sending the animation manually with doanim?
doanim works for the bard seeing his own animation. But others do not see it. It is just the series of bard animations. doanim of any other animation on the bard, and others see it.

Its weird

[astuce999]

I've been having a freaking blast since all the bard fixes came in. That is some serious skills /bow.

Animations are eye-candy. My bard is almost 28 now, and that means I'm getting closer and closer to that fateful lvl 32. I know that some bards are not going to be happy about this, but this is classic, and that should supersede any
other arguments.

Lvl 32 mana song needs to be returned to its classic form. No icon, no 3 tick duration, but a 3 second cast "necro feed" and a message that says "your mind clears". Yes, it will have a downside, but there will also be an upside.

(note: if this was already fixed and I missed the messages in patch notes or
from other bards, disregard this)

cheers!

Astucexx Subterfuge

[Haynar]

I've been having a freaking blast since all the bard fixes came in. That is some serious skills /bow.

Animations are eye-candy. My bard is almost 28 now, and that means I'm getting closer and closer to that fateful lvl 32. I know that some bards are not going to be happy about this, but this is classic, and that should supersede any
other arguments.

Lvl 32 mana song needs to be returned to its classic form. No icon, no 3 tick duration, but a 3 second cast "necro feed" and a message that says "your mind clears". Yes, it will have a downside, but there will also be an upside.

(note: if this was already fixed and I missed the messages in patch notes or
from other bards, disregard this)

cheers!

Astucexx Subterfuge
This is on my list of things to fix. To get the pulse based songs, working the way they were in classic.

Haynar

[mitic]

Lvl 32 mana song needs to be returned to its classic form. No icon, no 3 tick duration, but a 3 second cast "necro feed"

there has to be some sort of incentive since other things aint working rite for bards

keep as is please

[astuce999]

Mitic you may want to keep mana song as is because you think it more powerful or more convenient than its classic form, but I actually see it as its nerfed form right now, and would like to return it to its classic more powerful form.

Right now : 3 second cast, 5 mana per tick, 3 tick duration, icon. (doesn't stack with itself, or other bards).

Classic : 3 second cast, 5 mana per pulse, no duration, no icon. (stacks with itself, and multiple bards can play it).

With the classic form you can cast it over every 3 second and produce an extra 10 mana per tick for casters, making it twice as powerful as its current form. You can also have better stackability for bards in groups/raids, since multiple bards playing it means more mana over all.

cheers,

Astucexx Subterfuge

[Jete]

Update, 15 Jul 2010

Added to Bugs:
-Social / Charmed Pet Aggro.

Added to Fixed:
-Charmed mobs hitting tanks/spell casters rather than intended targets.

-Songs breaking if they fade directly after recast.

-MR Debuffs ( excluding Malos line ) not stacking with lvl 39 Charm.

[Jete]

Update, 26 Jul 2010

Added to Bugs:
-Songs wearing off on recast.
(posted by ryandward)

[Serin]

heh, one big song issue..

Kelin's Lucid Lullaby should be a pbae song with a range of about 25, rather than a single target song.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010823030818/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=996

proofs =p

it wasn't changed to a single target till 2002ish

[Jete]

heh, one big song issue..

Kelin's Lucid Lullaby should be a pbae song with a range of about 25, rather than a single target song.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010823030818/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=996

proofs =p

it wasn't changed to a single target till 2002ish

I think we tried bug reporting this before and were shut down, but lets try it again!

Edit- give me a second and ill put it in.

[jangos]

I think we tried bug reporting this before and were shut down, but lets try it again!

Edit- give me a second and ill put it in.

Yeah I know you wanna be classic and all but the old version (pbaoe) had NO EFFECT. You could NOT mez ANYTHING.

Secondly. I would like to add. Bard dots are not stacking with other bard dots.

[Jete]

Yeah I know you wanna be classic and all but the old version (pbaoe) had NO EFFECT. You could NOT mez ANYTHING.

Secondly. I would like to add. Bard dots are not stacking with other bard dots.

Jangos, can you write up a bug report for that? We had that same issue a while back...

I'm still doing research on the AoE mez, I have read about it before though, trying to find some video evidence.

Also- my main goal is to get charm fixed, its superbly bugged with aggro right now. Just pointing that out so you guys know what page I am on.

[mmiles8]

Yeah I know you wanna be classic and all but the old version (pbaoe) had NO EFFECT. You could NOT mez ANYTHING.

Secondly. I would like to add. Bard dots are not stacking with other bard dots.

The dot stacking is not a bug and was addressed in your previous thread here:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12978

The chants are special cases in dot stacking and not allowed to stack for balance reasons. This is intended.

---

Here you should find sufficient information on lucid lullaby with dated comments:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010522061704/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=996

[guineapig]

Oh my god why the hell would anyone want Kellin's changed to the original version? At least now the mez is useful. Sure it takes 9 seconds to mez 3 mobs instead of 3 seconds... but at least it lands.

This is basically the main reason low level bards get groups before level 32. It would be a shame to take it away from them.

[mmiles8]

Bugs with the song aside, if it had worked as intended, it would have been more powerful in its original incarnation.

The bug was with secondary saves (charisma check after mr check for example) On a song that lasted 1 tick, the secondary saves were being checked all at once. Instead of breaking early at a subsequent tick, it was simply not functioning because there was no subsequent tick to break at.

[Coalrymer]

Seemed like the best place to put this. So, Bard hide and sneak.

They don't seem to work together. I can have a good sneak (shows indiff to kos mob when its back is to me) and a good hide (shows indif to mob facing me) however when I move it breaks hide. I've tried this several times today.

[Arkis]

Seemed like the best place to put this. So, Bard hide and sneak.

They don't seem to work together. I can have a good sneak (shows indiff to kos mob when its back is to me) and a good hide (shows indif to mob facing me) however when I move it breaks hide. I've tried this several times today.

Hide and sneak together is a rogue only ability.

[Serin]

Hide and sneak together is a rogue only ability.

^this..

[astuce999]

Still waiting on lvl 32 mana song to return to its original form (wmp please).

Also, Bind Sight song (Lvl 34 Lyssa's Solidarity of Vision) does not work on corpses. In classic, a great way to scout, pull, and especially find corpses, was a combination of the two lyssa's lvl 4 Locating Lyric, and lvl 34.

Thirdly, and this might piss off some bards, but classic is classic, bards should not be affected by any kind of mana regeneration spells, nor any kind of mana drains. Currently, clarity and our own mana songs help us, I haven't tried manastone or mod rods but I presume they do as well. In the same vein, sitting to meditate should only yield 1 extra mana (for a total of 2 per tick), and not the amount it gives now (didn'tcount but about 15 ish).

thanks for your time,

Astuce Subterfuge

[Jete]

Still waiting on lvl 32 mana song to return to its original form (wmp please).

Also, Bind Sight song (Lvl 34 Lyssa's Solidarity of Vision) does not work on corpses. In classic, a great way to scout, pull, and especially find corpses, was a combination of the two lyssa's lvl 4 Locating Lyric, and lvl 34.

Thirdly, and this might piss off some bards, but classic is classic, bards should not be affected by any kind of mana regeneration spells, nor any kind of mana drains. Currently, clarity and our own mana songs help us, I haven't tried manastone or mod rods but I presume they do as well. In the same vein, sitting to meditate should only yield 1 extra mana (for a total of 2 per tick), and not the amount it gives now (didn'tcount but about 15 ish).

thanks for your time,

Astuce Subterfuge

You 100% positive that bards shouldn't be able to use mod rods or Manastones? Bards are even listed as a class on the manastone, ill look it up and edit it in.

[Jete]

While I was looking that up, look what I found-

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/35658-eq-cheaters-nostalgia-eq1s-greatest-exploits-rumors-15.html

"So seeing how mage and druid DS do not stack, you casted mage DS than used the bard (druid) clicky version and than overwrote that with the real druid version leaving the mage version there and than reapply the bard actual song version for 3 dam shields. You could take it even farther but you get the idea.

Worked on wep procs also, on tough to slow mobs chanter would tash and than bard would use tash stick and double stick it.

Worked with most any right click items or procs when used by bards.

I remember our first roy kill, the shaman and chanters just could not slow roy no matter what we tried and we kept wiping. Finally I pulled out my truncheon of Doom and tanked him the whole fight with my trunch while keeping him slowed from procs. When I called "Roy Slowed" in chat everyone was like WTF..."

[astuce999]

Flowing Thought, Mana Regen AA's, Divine Rez, Tribute stuffs, and GM rez are the only things that affect bard mana regeneration in Everquest.

Absolutely 100 positive.

Quickly searching I can point to:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=4&mid=107551353380132&page=1

even on the first page there's a few comments about mana regen and bards.

About manastone:


RE: would rock for bards, but..
Posted: 2005-02-17 21:28:09 | IP: Logged | Reply to this
AquaticElf
**
256 posts
Score: Decent
No instant/duration spells/songs will give a bard mana. This includes necro twitches and mod rods. Thus, a manastone will not give a bard any mana.

(Edit: Typo)

Edited, Thu Feb 17 21:28:29 2005 as found on http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3650

cheers

[Jete]

Update, 02 Aug 2010

Added to Bugs:
-Bard Mana Regeneration

Added to Fixed:
-Agilmente's Aria of Eagles.
(Haynar: Bard Song: Agilmente's Aria of Eagles - Will now require wind instrument to play.)

[Jete]

Flowing Thought, Mana Regen AA's, Divine Rez, Tribute stuffs, and GM rez are the only things that affect bard mana regeneration in Everquest.

Absolutely 100 positive.

Quickly searching I can point to:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=4&mid=107551353380132&page=1

even on the first page there's a few comments about mana regen and bards.

About manastone:


RE: would rock for bards, but..
Posted: 2005-02-17 21:28:09 | IP: Logged | Reply to this
AquaticElf
**
256 posts
Score: Decent
No instant/duration spells/songs will give a bard mana. This includes necro twitches and mod rods. Thus, a manastone will not give a bard any mana.

(Edit: Typo)

Edited, Thu Feb 17 21:28:29 2005 as found on http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3650

cheers

Right above that post is this comment
"Yes does work for bards, but only adds 2 mana for level 45 bard"

In other words, we need more evidence.

[guineapig]

Right above that post is this comment
"Yes does work for bards, but only adds 2 mana for level 45 bard"

In other words, we need more evidence.

This sounds like the normal mana regen occurred while the guy was testing it... just my thought.

No manastone for bard was always common knowledge, no research required

[mmiles8]

This sounds like the normal mana regen occurred while the guy was testing it... just my thought.

This. Allakhazam has a lot of incorrect and contradictory information. Nothing enhanced bard mana regen except what was listed above.

[Jete]

Awesome, did more detective work on it to be 100% sure. Added it and posted it on its own thread.

Thanks for your hard work ladies and gents!

[Coalrymer]

didn't see anyone post about it. But when you get stunned via spell for certain. The next 10 or so times you try to start a song its bugged, and you just get song ends.

[Jeice]

didn't see anyone post about it. But when you get stunned via spell for certain. The next 10 or so times you try to start a song its bugged, and you just get song ends.

I have never had this issue.

[mmiles8]

I came across this today as well. Looks like no FT for bards within the scope of P99. Seems it didn't start affecting them until late in Luclin.

Luclin shipped, FT has increased from 1, possibly 2, to 15. FT 0->15 is an enormous leap in power for casters and hybrids...yet FT doesn't work on bards. FT is a straight up, across the board, large jump in power for all casting classes...except bards.
Has mob power increased along with FT? Nope. Many times bards/enc have joined groups, adding mana needed for the group to kill without downtime. Now that mana is available to all. Bard/enc mana is no longer necessary to avoid downtime.

Bards lost relative power due to FT itself, and lost power due to secondary effects from FT. What changed with bards? Nothing, bards were forgotten. (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/retune.php)

[guineapig]

I just realized today that bard charm is basically capped at 51 for the entire duration of Kunark. I hope they increase the range of our dots by at that time...

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_charm.php

[Farlis]

any word on alliance song being fixed?

[Haynar]

Lyssa's Solidarity of Vision
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=50253#post50253

It's really broken... click the link for more info =P.


Please check this on live. It is working fine on my test server.

* This was fixed and is an issue again, re-posted. *
Songs not interrupting on the user's end-
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3744
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=410

When a bard song gets interrupted / fizzles, it doesn't stop the cast bar for the Bard.


I was not able to reproduce this with song fizzles. Are there specific songs this is happening on? Or is it only on interrupts?

Haynar

[Lazortag]

Both those issues are definitely resolved Haynar. You can sleep easy again.

[Haynar]

Both those issues are definitely resolved Haynar. You can sleep easy again.
I do sleep easy.

I just thought I had fixed them, and since they were there, I thought it would be an easy fix.

Haynar

[Eyry]

Bump

[Ryujee]

would like add a new item to the list, or rather a new incarnation of an old one. Bard songs are triggering other player animations to change, and not just to the bard, but to everyone. tested this one in EC tunnel, personally, and found one song that does make others mimic bard song animations.

Denon's Disruptive Discord

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=730

While i am reluctant to even post this, since i have such fun making casino-bots dance like fairies i figured posting it is still the right thing.

Also...

I understand the adjustments (notice i didn't say nerfs) to the distance of our songs has already been deemed to stand as is, there is still the issue of mobs hit range. i was pulling in Najena just yesterday, from as far as possible i bellowed the ogre guard from the second 'round room' (the first room with a campfire) when he pathed down the hall towards zone line.

I bellowed him, and under 1 second i was around the bend, halfway to the first round room. in that time the ogre nailed me from out of melee range, triple melee range to be more accurate. he also hit me, around a corner, before he could "see" me again. normally i would say i am lagging...but i can assure you, this time that was not the case.

just saying, seems silly to me to bellows a mob, in an outside zone (not Najena, obviously) at well past a shuriken's throwing range (i also play a monk lol) and be hit back immediately.

[Ryujee]

decided to put the rest of my issues here, instead of the previous post, so you could just delete it instead of having to edit bits and pieces lol. sorry if a LOT of this is rehash, but i feel it needs to be brought up. again.

in Classic, bards could kite in various fashions, including the almighty swarm style. they also had that 40% xp penalty, which in classic i believe they truly did deserve.

problem here is that i can barely kite 1 mob due to its ridiculous range on melee, mush less pull off a kite swarm with impunity. but i still suffer that 40% exp penalty, which is in my not so humble opinion, quite unfair to a class that has been more or less relegated to a last resort.

i can't heal with my songs anywhere as well as a class with heal spells

i can't do enough burst song damage to compete even with SK DD spells

my dots (now that i finally hit 18 i have a 2nd, which i had to basically afk-level the brass skill for) are a joke compared to any other dot using class.

even with dual wield i am ridiculously low on damage compared to people with crappier gear than mine.

now, before anyone says "duh! that's all meant to be that way" i would point out that i agree. we are meant to be jack-of-all-trades and an ace-of-none, as it should be for the penultimate hybrid class. my problem here is that our ability to solo, at a worthwhile rate, has been destroyed. so if we want xp worth a hoot, we have to join groups. small problem here is that a lot of people rather have a 'pure' class over a bard any day of the week. literally, in 18 levels, i have only gotten 4 groups that i did not start myself, or was grouped with a friend who decided to fill the group out.

mind you, i have bought or looted gear way beyond my level, dark blues still kick my butt in a stand up fight...instruments or melee weapons. meanwhile, other classes that are readily welcome into groups can also solo more efficiently than a bard.

coincidentally, every bard i have talked to tells me the same thing, "once you can charm kite that all changes". i am sure that is entirely true, but we're talking lvl 28 before that is even a possibility, i have trudged through 18 levels in about the same time it took me to level my monk AND warrior to the same level...combined.

i know, i know...am crying like got sand in my butt-crack, but i honestly feel that removing our ability to solo while keeping the xp penalty is just plain wrong. bear in mind, all it takes is 1 caster or a mob with a stun effect (lava basilisks in LS for example) to turn a swarm kite into suicide.

anyways, just more piss-and-moan for you guys, even if i do feel it justified. oddly enough, as a father of 2, i KNOW the irritation...but here i am, giving it to you guys.

[Uthgaard]

decided to put the rest of my issues here, instead of the previous post, so you could just delete it instead of having to edit bits and pieces lol. sorry if a LOT of this is rehash, but i feel it needs to be brought up. again.

in Classic, bards could kite in various fashions, including the almighty swarm style. they also had that 40% xp penalty, which in classic i believe they truly did deserve.

problem here is that i can barely kite 1 mob due to its ridiculous range on melee, mush less pull off a kite swarm with impunity. but i still suffer that 40% exp penalty, which is in my not so humble opinion, quite unfair to a class that has been more or less relegated to a last resort.

i can't heal with my songs anywhere as well as a class with heal spells

i can't do enough burst song damage to compete even with SK DD spells

my dots (now that i finally hit 18 i have a 2nd, which i had to basically afk-level the brass skill for) are a joke compared to any other dot using class.

even with dual wield i am ridiculously low on damage compared to people with crappier gear than mine.

now, before anyone says "duh! that's all meant to be that way" i would point out that i agree. we are meant to be jack-of-all-trades and an ace-of-none, as it should be for the penultimate hybrid class. my problem here is that our ability to solo, at a worthwhile rate, has been destroyed. so if we want xp worth a hoot, we have to join groups. small problem here is that a lot of people rather have a 'pure' class over a bard any day of the week. literally, in 18 levels, i have only gotten 4 groups that i did not start myself, or was grouped with a friend who decided to fill the group out.

mind you, i have bought or looted gear way beyond my level, dark blues still kick my butt in a stand up fight...instruments or melee weapons. meanwhile, other classes that are readily welcome into groups can also solo more efficiently than a bard.

coincidentally, every bard i have talked to tells me the same thing, "once you can charm kite that all changes". i am sure that is entirely true, but we're talking lvl 28 before that is even a possibility, i have trudged through 18 levels in about the same time it took me to level my monk AND warrior to the same level...combined.

i know, i know...am crying like got sand in my butt-crack, but i honestly feel that removing our ability to solo while keeping the xp penalty is just plain wrong. bear in mind, all it takes is 1 caster or a mob with a stun effect (lava basilisks in LS for example) to turn a swarm kite into suicide.

anyways, just more piss-and-moan for you guys, even if i do feel it justified. oddly enough, as a father of 2, i KNOW the irritation...but here i am, giving it to you guys.

Upon carefully reading this post, I declare that bards are now working as intended.

:P

[MiRo2]

i know, i know...am crying like got sand in my butt-crack, but i honestly feel that removing our ability to solo while keeping the xp penalty is just plain wrong.

You can easily solo, its matter of being able to solo efficiently. When was the last time you saw a shadowknight, a paladin, or a ranger solo as well as a mage or druid? Bards have always been a grouping class. The people you are trying to group with are not very familiar with the game if they're turning down a bard because "you have nothing to offer them", your benefit to the group is not measured by how much damage you do, but how much damage you add to your party's damage, or how much utility you add to the group.

In short please keep your posts like this to RnF, instead of imposing your opinions of what you think your class should be instead of trashing a reputable bug thread on bards with opinions instead of actual bugs.

[Lazortag]

mind you, i have bought or looted gear way beyond my level, dark blues still kick my butt in a stand up fight...instruments or melee weapons. meanwhile, other classes that are readily welcome into groups can also solo more efficiently than a bard.

coincidentally, every bard i have talked to tells me the same thing, "once you can charm kite that all changes". i am sure that is entirely true, but we're talking lvl 28 before that is even a possibility, i have trudged through 18 levels in about the same time it took me to level my monk AND warrior to the same level...combined.

i know, i know...am crying like got sand in my butt-crack, but i honestly feel that removing our ability to solo while keeping the xp penalty is just plain wrong. bear in mind, all it takes is 1 caster or a mob with a stun effect (lava basilisks in LS for example) to turn a swarm kite into suicide.


The first part shouldn't be true in most cases (unless you're level 50 battling a level 49 or something ridiculous like that). Ur doin' it wrong.

The second part is curiously also not true. You can't really charm kite that well as a Bard, it's more of an effective CC spell than it is an efficient soloing technique.

The third part is nonsense. Obviously you don't aoe kite casters or mobs with a stun proc or whatever. You don't aoe kite ghouls because they will root you if you screw up. By you can still aoe kite large numbers of other mobs - there's a post on the forums where someone shows a screenshot of his Bard after aoe kiting over 20 mobs. I spent several levels aoe kiting the spectres tower in oasis - how many classes do you know that can take all four of those spectres at once? Only a few. Go search Cribanox's post about aoe kiting on project 1999, and he will tell you how to do it without getting hit. Maybe it's not the same as it used to be on live, but it's fun and challenging and I'm not complaining.

~Bard of 50 seasons~

[astuce999]

No mez push

No classic mana song (was a patch message about it but still working with icon for 3 ticks)

Not being immune to mana drain

--------------------

Those would be my 3 big issues right now (09/22/2010).


Cheers!

[MiRo2]

No classic mana song (was a patch message about it but still working with icon for 3 ticks)

Its functioning as described in Haynar's post, it gives mana as a pulse and not per tick, and multiple bards can give pulses at the same time in the same group every two seconds. The only bugged portion is that the icon still comes up and lasts for 3 ticks.

[Teeroyoyort]

In classic, there was no bard song window. All our buffs went into the main slot of buffs. It allowed for players fighting dispell mobs to regain buffs fast. Similar to insta clickies. I kinda like the song buff window ::shrug:: but insta buffs are nice too!

[Lazortag]

In classic, there was no bard song window. All our buffs went into the main slot of buffs. It allowed for players fighting dispell mobs to regain buffs fast. Similar to insta clickies. I kinda like the song buff window ::shrug:: but insta buffs are nice too!

I don't get what this means. How did it help players regain buffs quickly?

[Tork]

The bard songs were an easy way to fill the upper most buff spots to absorb dispels, so a real buff could be casted on the player while he was still looting with little worry about waiting for the player to put junk buffs in place first.

[Lazortag]

The bard songs were an easy way to fill the upper most buff spots to absorb dispels, so a real buff could be casted on the player while he was still looting with little worry about waiting for the player to put junk buffs in place first.

Oh. I didn't realize dispell had a limit on the number of buffs that were dispelled, mainly because I don't think I've ever been on the receiving end of a dispell.

That sounds neat.

[Eyry]

Bump for bard Issues.

Bard mana issue was resolved last patch right? Its still showing as un-resolved.

[Jete]

Sorry, I just got back from the good ol' USA to Japan. All updates will be done tonight JPN time. I'll make sure I get everything I can find on here.

<333 you guys!

[Lazortag]

Sorry, I just got back from the good ol' USA to Japan. All updates will be done tonight JPN time. I'll make sure I get everything I can find on here.

<333 you guys!

Some of the things in the original post have been fixed by the way (like the bind sight song), so to save the devs the headache of sifting through what's been fixed/what hasn't, you might want to change that as well.

Also, we all totally thought you were dead.

[Jete]

Update, 29 Sep 2010

Added to Bugs:
-Solon's Bewitching Bravura (39 Charm) Mana Cost.

Added to Fixed:
-Bard Mana Regeneration.

-Songs wearing off on recast.

-Lyssa's Solidarity of Vision.

As a side note, I really believe the charm bug needs to be looked at. It is at this point a huge single point of failure for the bard class. I have supplied more than enough evidence to prove this. Also, it's been a while since the last update so if I missed anything please don't be shy about letting me know. Thank you!

[astuce999]

The Mez song having no push component is not listed in your official list.

To me, it's the most important one as it is a great pulling tool.

cheers

[Eyry]

Bump, Nice Job Jete

[snwbrdr642]

Social / Charmed Pet Aggro
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11990
YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5HLlJnxMsY

Currently there is an issue with both Social aggro and charmed pet aggro. What is happening is the charmed pet is somehow transferring much more aggro to its master than it should. As far as the social aggro goes, mobs for some reason do not assist each other when a charmed pet attacks one of their "friends."


Could this be due to charmed creatures being treated in the same way that pets are treated? I mean if a mage pet pulls a mob and dies, even though you haven't cast anything on it the mob will agro you correct? If I had to guess I would think that this relationship and how it extends to charmed creatures has something to do with the agro issue you're experiencing.

[Jete]

The Mez song having no push component is not listed in your official list.

To me, it's the most important one as it is a great pulling tool.

cheers

Hey Astuce, is that push component classic? I'll do the research tonight (if you guys haven't done it) when I come home. If someone wants though they can write up a bug report on it with *facts* on it. I've tried writing bug reports based on player experience and they don't give a hoot.

But I'll look into it A.S.A.P.

[Jete]

Could this be due to charmed creatures being treated in the same way that pets are treated? I mean if a mage pet pulls a mob and dies, even though you haven't cast anything on it the mob will agro you correct? If I had to guess I would think that this relationship and how it extends to charmed creatures has something to do with the agro issue you're experiencing.

No they aren't being treated the same. I did some testing (if you click the link that holds the bug report on it you'll see the mage's name who helped me) and as far as I know Bard charm is the only one doing this. No other class pet or charm seems to be acting like ours. I could be wrong though, the issue is that Enchanters don't have a community like ours where we try to help each other out so it is very difficult to get any straight facts without it turning into a flame war!

[Jete]

In classic, there was no bard song window. All our buffs went into the main slot of buffs. It allowed for players fighting dispell mobs to regain buffs fast. Similar to insta clickies. I kinda like the song buff window ::shrug:: but insta buffs are nice too!

I didn't skip this post either. Just as a heads up this could be a huge buff for raid bards.

[Deric]

Welcome back Jete :)

[Lazortag]

No they aren't being treated the same. I did some testing (if you click the link that holds the bug report on it you'll see the mage's name who helped me) and as far as I know Bard charm is the only one doing this. No other class pet or charm seems to be acting like ours. ...

It seems my enchanter's pet (note: not his charmed pet), upon dying, will cause whatever was hitting it to aggro me and have just a little bit more aggro than usual, but not too much (like it takes a few seconds more to get the mob off me and onto my new pet, but it doesn't seem to draw as much aggro as bard charm will when it runs out).

Actually Jete, have you yet figured out exactly how much aggro un-charming a mob generates for the mobs the charmed pet was attacking? Is it a lot of aggro (aka so much that it would be very difficult for someone else to come get the enemy off of you), or is it just a little bit like when a normal pet dies? Because then what people are saying might actually be valid.

edit: there was another part to this post but it got truncated for some reason.

[Jete]

Lazor- you pose a good question and I am assuming you have already watched the video. I have yet to try charming and have a real person try to peel the aggro from me. It's a great idea, ill see if I can get one of my tank friends to help me out!

And thx for the WB Deric! You know I missed you!

[Ponden]

You're the man, Jete!

[astuce999]

Hey Astuce, is that push component classic? I'll do the research tonight (if you guys haven't done it) when I come home. If someone wants though they can write up a bug report on it with *facts* on it. I've tried writing bug reports based on player experience and they don't give a hoot.

But I'll look into it A.S.A.P.

Earliest thing I could find is from the first archived instance of eqdiva.com on

http://web.archive.org/web/20010303151318/www.eqdiva.com/songs.asp

28 Crisson's Pixie Strike Mesmerize (up to 15 seconds), lower magic resistance (up to 20 points), knock-back effect to target T W


So it's from March 8th, 2001. The song was never changed, all our early single target mez songs had a knock back or knock forward effect, if you look at:

53 Song of Twilight Target: Mesmerize up to 15 seconds, Decrease MR (15), Knock-forward Effect; Upgrade to Crission's Pixie Strike, and less resisted than its predecessor. Caution: Will override Enchanter's mesmerize spells.

Hopefully that's enough evidence!

cheers

[guineapig]

In classic, there was no bard song window. All our buffs went into the main slot of buffs. It allowed for players fighting dispell mobs to regain buffs fast. Similar to insta clickies. I kinda like the song buff window ::shrug:: but insta buffs are nice too!

I didn't skip this post either. Just as a heads up this could be a huge buff for raid bards.

This would actually be very bad for bards since there is a 15 buff limit and debuffs already overwrite buffs. I'm just saying.
The most important buffs you don't want to get dispelled on a raid are HP buffs and that's most important on the tank. Bards don't have HP buff songs.
Second most important are the resists but bard resist songs are way more beneficial then resist spells.
I only see negatives for including songs in the 15 buff slot as opposed to keeping it in a separate window.

Being able to have 15+4 buffs (5 if you can twist real good) is better then being stuck with 15.
Dispells are not that frequent that it would be worth loosing the song window for.