Main hand damage bonus is affecting bow damage

[Tune]

I thought this was already reported but

equiping a weighted axe makes the minimum hit with a bow 100+

seems completely broken and doesn't make sense

[Kief]

lmao

[Gustoo]

They were waiting for Brown99 to roll out the fixes.

[Kileldear]

Gotta know the game you play, been like this for years.

[Kileldear]

BFG functioned like this since forever and I think its classic.

[Jibartik]

Sounds like OP has been, erased.

[Elven_Wine_Abuse]

It's been like this for a very long time now. Everyone just slept on it, now it's suddenly an issue? At this point it's a feature not a bug. It makes reliance on ToV gear not as important and levels the playing field for newer players when it comes to pvp. I prefer it the way it is, has been, and hopefully forever will be.

[Heywood]

Don't worry Rogean, I got this one bru.


SUBJECT: Bow damage in PVP.

STATUS: WORKING AS INTENDED

SOLUTIONS, IF ANY: Play better.

COMMENTS: Thank you for your inquiry. You will be happy to know that we intend to fix Reaper of the Dead (https://wiki.project1999.com/Reaper_of_the_Dead) hopefully by the next patch, due to the CONSTANT EXPLOITATION of this bug by Apex.

Thank you and have a great day!

[Jibartik]

Solutions, If Any: play war/shd

[Jimjam]

berserk and fell strike. how much hit?

[Tune]

Gotta know the game you play, been like this for years.

na u are an idiot they put in damage bonus recently

[Baugi]

Has anyone properly tested whether main hand delay also effects bow proc rate? I can't convince anyone to shoot me with a windy for 30m to be honest.

[Tune]

https://imgur.com/IOQDRuW

this bow quest is being taken to levels out of hand

trivializing even pve content now (bowing out of aoe range)

this shit needs to get fixed already

Back in the day, im pretty sure u didnt have 10 ogre warriors as raid dps standing back and bowing

[Beatnix]

constant exploitation? yikes, its ok when perdition does it.

[Tune]

Last night's <Perdition> CT raid .... the MAIN DPS'ers

kurse, bogey, pastry, beatdovvn, hrungir


big races with weighted axes


/facepalm

fix this plz

[Heywood]

That screenshot is more pixelated than any screenshot I took back in 1999. I don't even know what you're trying to prove with that?

Anyways, the reason Perdition have a few people bowing during Zlandi is because their main purpose is to break FDs of any Apex members who are trying to flop a huge train on our raid. Merz, awfal, Reap, capown, and numerous other Apex have tried to flop a train on us, clearly evident by the recent bans on reap, merz and possibly awfal?

Another reason we have people bowing is to interrupt said Apex members from channeling dispells on Zlandi (which are clearly illegal).

As for the group you mentioned in Fear, that was the PvP group who were designated to follow in any bard you guys brought in to illegally dispel CT. Not sure how them denying you from reaching CT somehow makes them top DPS? LOL.

The GMs are probably laughing at you crying about trivializing pve content when they have logs of you bragging in OOC about solo'ing (aka boxing) content in air, hate, WW, etc.

Anyways, thread is closed. Nothing to see here.

[Baugi]

Last night's <Perdition> CT raid .... the MAIN DPS'ers

kurse, bogey, pastry, beatdovvn, hrungir


big races with weighted axes


/facepalm

fix this plz

Main DPS confirmed

Beatdovvn -vs- Cazic Thule: -- DMG: 702 -- DPS: 7 -- Scaled: 3 -- Hit: 702 -- % dmg as normal: 100% -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 11 -- Hits: 7 -- Missed: 4 -- Accuracy: 63.6% -- Avg Hit: 100 -- Max hit: 110 -- DMG to PC: 5261

[Tune]

lol talk about gas lighting

u mean to tell me he hit this mob 7 times?

[Tune]

That screenshot is more pixelated than any screenshot I took back in 1999. I don't even know what you're trying to prove with that?

Anyways, the reason Perdition have a few people bowing during Zlandi is because their main purpose is to break FDs of any Apex members who are trying to flop a huge train on our raid. Merz, awfal, Reap, capown, and numerous other Apex have tried to flop a train on us, clearly evident by the recent bans on reap, merz and possibly awfal?

Another reason we have people bowing is to interrupt said Apex members from channeling dispells on Zlandi (which are clearly illegal).

As for the group you mentioned in Fear, that was the PvP group who were designated to follow in any bard you guys brought in to illegally dispel CT. Not sure how them denying you from reaching CT somehow makes them top DPS? LOL.

The GMs are probably laughing at you crying about trivializing pve content when they have logs of you bragging in OOC about solo'ing (aka boxing) content in air, hate, WW, etc.

Anyways, thread is closed. Nothing to see here.

lolol

ok lemme get this straight.

breaking FDS for trains... there are never any trains unless people get feared into snakes and that's usually your team. what good is having 5 bowquesters to get a a few monks killed. U are still gonna have to deal with the train

none of those toons are suspended, there are no trains u need to stop crying wolf and get that out of your head

bowing to interrupt people pelling ct/zlandi? lol

no1 is pelling ct dude and arrows dont interrupt spell casting

what are u smoking dude

[Jimjam]

I have tested this bug thoroughly, and main hand damage bonus does seem to affect bows.

I've not tested it on thrown items yet.

I'm yet to find evidence either way on how it worked in era.

If we want this to be fixed, we have to find evidence that the current iteration departs from classic.

[Tune]

I have tested this bug thoroughly, and main hand damage bonus does seem to affect bows.

I've not tested it on thrown items yet.

I'm yet to find evidence either way on how it worked in era.

If we want this to be fixed, we have to find evidence that the current iteration departs from classic.

i mean i know u guys are big on evidence but this make absolutely NO sense

If u can find firing squads of 10x ogres on zlandicar in a classic screen shot u can keep it

[Nirgon]

There's no way your main hand bonus should be applied to ranged weps and bows.

Some of the hardest archery damage I took on RZ, oddly enough, was from a rogue using a primal bow. Was like 70-80 a shot, not sure which arrows but probably basic ones.

Given he had a ragebringer main hand and troll warriors with warrior epic etc doing the same or less with the primal bow... kinda proves this one out.

[ricquire]

All things aside the concept makes no sense. 100 flat dmg increase to min/max dmg (on non miss) on a high speed bow with spellhaste/worn haste/quiver makes jousting and casters nearly irrelevant.

The fact that the PVE potential hasn't been fully fleshed out is only because red doesn't have numbers, and blue has overwhelming numbers. The problem still potentially exists for it to be abused PVE.

If red got the same attention blue got for bugs fixes, this would be an issue.

The only reason the concept is being discussed as a PVE issue to so it would be solved across the board fixing the PVP issue.

[Baugi]

lol talk about gas lighting

u mean to tell me he hit this mob 7 times?

DMG to PC: 5261

Do you need an explanation of the CT fight or something?

Be honest, this has nothing to do with PVE.

[Beatnix]

2016 tlp discussion of bow damage says there is no damage bonus.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/archery-damage-calculation.233703/

Bewts
Augur
Oh, and my base math was bad. 43 + 11 + 4 is 58, not 59. Just makes the numbers worse, so the point stands.

As a comparison of weapons:

Twisted Steel Bastard Sword is 53/45
War Bow of Rallos Zek plus arrow is 58/45
Bewts, Jun 29, 2016#5
EQcleric
Elder
Do bows have damage bonus? You would need to factor that into the melee hits.
EQcleric, Jun 29, 2016#6
taliefer
Augur
bows have no damage bonus
taliefer, Jun 29, 2016#7
Dafootfistway
Lorekeeper
Bow damage is probably one of the saddest things about Rangers on TLP.

I mean, their regular damage is pretty sad as well, per recent Reddit posts of logs and such, but bis bows being largely unusable for DPS is just icing on the cake.

[Jimjam]

There was a big revamp of how melee hits worked post classic. Sadly that source is not of correct era.

[Beatnix]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Archery

A Ranger using an Exquisite_Velium_Reinforced_Bow and CLASS_2_Steel_Silver_Tip_Arrow is effectively using a 38/36 two hander with 340 range, without damage bonus or double attack. That is still not very good DPS, but the Trueshot discipline slightly more than doubles Ranger bow damage for 2 minutes. With that added, it becomes approximately equivalent to a 38/36 two hander that always double attacks, can crit and doesn't have a damage bonus.

[Tune]

DMG to PC: 5261

Do you need an explanation of the CT fight or something?

Be honest, this has nothing to do with PVE.

not sure what u are trying to say here but u are beat into a corner by everyone and just look stupid on this thread

he hit the mob 7 times for 100 damage each hit (thats a minimum hit of 100, lul)

granted he missed 4 times

so u are saying he had 7 dps

that means those 11 swings took him 100 seconds to execute?

i think u need to check that parser again bub

[Tune]

with how fast u can click a fast bow with quiver and spell haste

with predator, avatar, all the accuracy buffs

id be much more inclined to believe 60-80 dps which is right on par with primal rogs, during some fights

the reason this gets thrown off is bc the damage bonus affects the MINIMUM hit, which is really powerful

and the added fact u can do this without aggro, or being in range to aoes, makes the game seem really stupid

it just compounds the stupiditiy of this in pvp

[Baugi]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Archery

A Ranger using an Exquisite_Velium_Reinforced_Bow and CLASS_2_Steel_Silver_Tip_Arrow is effectively using a 38/36 two hander with 340 range, without damage bonus or double attack. That is still not very good DPS, but the Trueshot discipline slightly more than doubles Ranger bow damage for 2 minutes. With that added, it becomes approximately equivalent to a 38/36 two hander that always double attacks, can crit and doesn't have a damage bonus.

The P99 wiki is not an appropriate source either. You might want to consult this help thread - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5570

not sure what u are trying to say here

"DMG to PC" indicates damage done to the player. Your assumption (stated as fact) that "u can do this without aggro" is wrong... and bizarre.

[Beatnix]

Why don't you provide some evidence that this is a normal mechanic then? All I have seen is people saying it's always been like this, with no evidence provided. With thousands of people playing eq during classic, I can't find one instance of someone using this or talking about it at all.

[Baugi]

Why don't you provide some evidence that this is a normal mechanic then? All I have seen is people saying it's always been like this, with no evidence provided. With thousands of people playing eq during classic, I can't find one instance of someone using this or talking about it at all.

I couldn't tell you if it's classic or not, but it's been coded this way on P99 since at least 2018 (probably 2011? my archery logs don't go back very far) so it wouldn't really surprise me if it went largely unnoticed on Live until they revamped it in Luclin.

[Tune]

im not sure why ct did damage to him or why this is even relevant. he could have just ran in and taken melee swings or died when u wiped, or been on rampage range

there is no proof bowing caused him aggro and likely didnt

[Heywood]

Be honest, this has nothing to do with PVE.

This is pretty much it.

Look tune, I know you're mad that you've lost the server, no one cares to play with you anymore, and have gotten several toons banned recently because of training. But it doesn't mean you get to deceive and waste the Devs' time and energy.


Moving this to resolved.

[Tune]

This is pretty much it.

Look tune, I know you're mad that you've lost the server, no one cares to play with you anymore, and have gotten several toons banned recently because of training. But it doesn't mean you get to deceive and waste the Devs' time and energy.


Moving this to resolved.

AHHH

there it is the post i was waiting for

yeah... thanks for the free bump, fix this

[Beatnix]

I couldn't tell you if it's classic or not, but it's been coded this way on P99 since at least 2018 (probably 2011? my archery logs don't go back very far) so it wouldn't really surprise me if it went largely unnoticed on Live until they revamped it in Luclin.

So youre assuming its been on p99, which has been using an out of era client, for years that it must have been like this on live? Logs from p99 are irrelevant as well. Doesn't mean it's classic.

[Baugi]

So youre assuming its been on p99, which has been using an out of era client, for years that it must have been like this on live? Logs from p99 are irrelevant as well. Doesn't mean it's classic.

No? I was addressing your disbelief that it could have gone largely unnoticed on live by pointing out that it went unnoticed for even longer here. Also, this is server-side code; it has nothing to do with the client.

[Beatnix]

No? I was addressing your disbelief that it could have gone largely unnoticed on live by pointing out that it went unnoticed for even longer here. Also, this is server-side code; it has nothing to do with the client.

So p99 sever doesn't have anything past velious. Nothing was taking out to make it classic..... ok bud.

[Jimjam]

So youre assuming its been on p99, which has been using an out of era client, for years that it must have been like this on live? Logs from p99 are irrelevant as well. Doesn't mean it's classic.

It went largely un-noticed on p1999 by people pretty familiar with Eq game mechanics for a decade.

Doesn't seem unlikely it would go un-noticed on live by relative noobs for 2 years.

[Beatnix]

I'm sure the original eq devs planned for large races to outshine all others by way of a bow and a trashdrop vendor item.

[Jimjam]

I'm sure the original eq devs planned for large races to outshine all others by way of a bow and a trashdrop vendor item.

Devs planned a lot of things that didn't pan out.

Different crew on items to game mechanics. Especially re kunark items vs release era game mechanics.

Agreed that holstering a huge axe magically makes your bow better than holstering a sword and dagger seems silly. Lots of stuff in eq is silly though.

Is it classically silly though?

If we nerf this, where do we stop? Charm? Leave the enchanters alone.

[MiRo2]

It went largely un-noticed on p1999 by people pretty familiar with Eq game mechanics for a decade.

Doesn't seem unlikely it would go un-noticed on live by relative noobs for 2 years.

2 Hander damage bonus was part of a late velious patch on live, and wasn't implemented on p1999 until less than 2 years ago.

Patch Notes: September 8th, 2019

Rogean: [Kunark/Sep2000/Oct2001] Applied Era Rules to Weapon Damage Bonus Calculations.

[Beatnix]

Devs planned a lot of things that didn't pan out.

Different crew on items to game mechanics. Especially re kunark items vs release era game mechanics.

Agreed that holstering a huge axe magically makes your bow better than holstering a sword and dagger seems silly. Lots of stuff in eq is silly though.

Is it classically silly though?

If we nerf this, where do we stop? Charm? Leave the enchanters alone.

Charm has been looked at recently as well. Can't charm merchants now? Think that's right anyhow. And yes, classicly silly.

If this was actually in classic, no evidence of such, and commonly used i believe the devs would have addressed it in some way. Just like removing items from drop tables or retro nerfing items because they were deemed too powerful.

[Baugi]

2 Hander damage bonus was part of a late velious patch on live, and wasn't implemented on p1999 until less than 2 years ago.

They changed the values, but the bonus has been in for much longer than that.

Patch Notes, Sunday, May 29th, 2011
...
Kanras: Classic 2H dmg bonus.

To clarify my earlier claim - my logs (which go back to 2018) show rogues bow min-hitting for their one-handed damage bonus and knights bow min-hitting for more than that (regardless of bow), which suggests that P99 has been using the mainhand damage bonus for a very long time. Obviously, boosting the 2handed damage bonus made it more relevant.

[MiRo2]

This is just a guess, but the 2011 classic damage bonus change was likely taking it to classic values from whatever the stock eqemu code was. Classic bonus values were static ish, and the pre-luclin upgrade heavily incorporated weapon delay, specifically on weapons above like 38 delay.

My point was that it certainly wasn't just not noticed during live. Played on tallon starting in late classic and I never truly feared bow damage until rangers got AM3.

[Tune]

this is beyond stupid at this point

like this is the worst bug that is preventing people from even wanting to play

bump for sanity

[Tune]

has any1 parsed dagarn bow + weighted axe?

like how is every1 not using that atm

this is silly needs a fix

[Nirgon]

like how is every1 not using that atm


Cuz 1000+ people left and want a new server

You got any other brain teasers for us? High Priest Haynar was the only dude left givin' a hoot and think his patience bout ran out with the fungus twanks cuz there's no item loot to counter balance that shit bind rushing you and griefing

If you can get them off green be my guest

[Treats]

It went largely un-noticed on p1999 by people pretty familiar with Eq game mechanics for a decade.

Doesn't seem unlikely it would go un-noticed on live by relative noobs for 2 years.

Yeah it went un-noticed for a decade on here and on live for 2 years.

Wanna know why?

BECUASE IT NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE UNTIL LATE VELIOUS.

Completely clueless.

[Tune]

Yeah it went un-noticed for a decade on here and on live for 2 years.

Wanna know why?

BECUASE IT NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE UNTIL LATE VELIOUS.

Completely clueless.

yup

[JipXIII]

I have no idea how “baked in” the bow damage bug is to the late Velious knight melee bonus, but it could be a lot of engineering work to redo. I just hope they take on the challenge of fixing this bug even if blue isn’t abusing it as frequently as red is.

[EatitNerd]

Bump. This bug is still running rampant and borderline unplayable for red99

[Tune]

just take away 2handed damage bonus for now...

roll back the changes

u can spend 5 years fixing it , just stop the madness please