PVP Battle - SK vs Paladin

[Gustoo]

Level 60, if gear is a factor you can discuss.

How does a battle between these two hybrid tanks play out?

Heres mine:

Scenario 1, lots of strong PVE enemies, the SK wins because of Feign death.

Scenario 2, not many or no strong PVE enemies - I dunno. I think the paladin might win because heals land for 100%, so he gets full LOH HP boost, and all his heal spells HP boosts while the SK is partialling HT and his damage spells and his pet is rooted doing nothing.

Thoughts?

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I think balance between SK and Paladin is fine. Sk would own a paladin though 1 on 1. But I like it that way because every class has its own purpose. It would be cool though to steal some warcraft 3 ideas where Paladin gives some aura ac bonus to group members or at least to groups members in pvp. I think paladin could be improved because Sk is still significantly better. I'm unsure though. I'm not a pvp expert. I have heard people say Paladin stun interruption is definitely capable of being significant.

[Gustoo]

Tell me how you think an sk would best a paladin? Their defense and offense are basically identical. An sk offensive spells are easily countered by paladin with great heals.

The only advantage I see here is than a sk can be a ogre so if both are geared poorly the ogre will have a big ATK bonus from the extra strength and such.

But I’m not an expert either.

[White_knight]

With mobs:
Probably SK doing FD shit.

Without mobs
Kunark era? Paladinish
Velious era? Paladin absolutely fucking destories SK.

My semi geared Paladin was used to absolutely destory 2 of the best geared (I mean dripping in BiS gear) SKs on the server, there's screenshots of them plugging at low HP somewhere.

The problem is Paladins don't have an easy "kill shot", i.e lifetaps, harm touch so can just run away from them in the open lol.

1v1 fight to death SK should mostly die.

With LoH and HoT heal, or even straight sup. heals Paladin will push out more healing then life taps, also....if they have a soulfire onboard add another 5x 2/3rd health bars, if they have have a reaper, add another 2/3rd.

[zaldaben]

if we were talking wow I would say pally over deathknight all the way but I never pvp'd on everquest. pally on wow was OP back in the day.

[Gustoo]

Zaldaben you might as well be talking about league of legends when you’re talking wow. I fully hate that game man.

White Knight, that’s kinda what I was thinking. I didn’t really think of the lack of kill shot but it seems clear that the paladins defensive abilities more than counter the SKs offensive ones.

Also I didn’t ever read your sig to see why you’re “white knight” I assumed it was a Harvey dent reference or something.

[magnetaress]

Pallies are the #1 pvp class if we aren't talking about YT.

Also Pallies get free clicky heals from Deepwater stuff. So unless the sk can keep the pressure on Pallies win every time.

Pallies melee hurts plenty. They can bow to interrupt med. And stun, blind, can be brutal if it lands.

Roots useful on pets too. ;)

[magnetaress]

I think EQ pallies are more OP than wow pallies. EQ pallies are straight up insane, add in the group dynamics of EQ and pallies become a work horse that just never gets anywhere fast enough for the majority of wizard players.

[Tunabros]

(I mean dripping in BiS gear)



https://i.imgur.com/vkuWoR0.jpg

[Gustoo]

funny picture. BIS shorts.

[magnetaress]

I always wanted to see a guild of like 30 paladins, clerics, and wizards dominate a vanilla box.

[Gustoo]

That would pretty much do it. But you'd want some enchanter for clarity or a bard or something too.

Once you start making combo's you get to be invinceable thats what EQ is all about.

[magnetaress]

That would pretty much do it. But you'd want some enchanter for clarity or a bard or something too.

Once you start making combo's you get to be invinceable thats what EQ is all about.

I think said imaginary roleplay only guild could do it despite not having enchanters, bards, or monks, even if only elf/human allowed or just human only even. Just saying that the classes are powerful enough on their own that they'd be a fearsome force despite playing to EQ's strength (adding diversity via more classes to a group). Even vs a guild that was a mix up of everyone in the 'perfect' combo.

[Ogrork]

Pallies own sks? Are you all talking about the same game?

[magnetaress]

Pallies own sks? Are you all talking about the same game?

Coming from my 1st hand experience as a lvl 40 pally and also my 3 paladin friends who groomed me into becoming a pally, for a time. Yes, absolutely hands down SK's are 1 and dones with their HT and FD. Literally zero staying power in an evenly matched clean and honorable stand off.

[Gustoo]

Pallies own sks? Are you all talking about the same game?

Break it down for us bro get me some dissenting opinion on this. I don't want everyone rolling pallies on brown 99 when their subconscious remembers this thread.

[Ogrork]

Coming from my 1st hand experience as a lvl 40 pally and also my 3 paladin friends who groomed me into becoming a pally, for a time. Yes, absolutely hands down SK's are 1 and dones with their HT and FD. Literally zero staying power in an evenly matched clean and honorable stand off.

Not very believable considering pvp under level 56 is extremely rare these days. And the likelihood of encountering an sk being even more rare. Also, there isn’t 3 high level paladins that play paladins on this server.

I’ve actually pvped against both. And without a doubt, sks are far more of a threat than paladins.

And just consider the stats of ogre vs dwarf. There is no comparison. Even with high end gear, once you max out str and sta, you can focus on other stats like hp and resists. Meaning overall the ogre still is way ahead. Also factor in that ogres can stun dwarfs without a shield using slam. If the dwarf wields a shield to try to stun back. Ogres have frontal immunity, meaning the sks spells will cast, and lots of the pallies spells will be interrupted. You might argue that some 1hs have great dps, but that would be an even worse argument considering that no one just stands there in pvp. Everyone jousts.

[Gustoo]

Lets focus on the fact that this is theoryquest battle.

Magnet played when there were players on the server so his pally training is legitimate I have seen him joust and he does so bravely. I am a shitter jouster because I literally only played gustoo on red99 so my jousting is fully 17 years old from LIVE with different hit boxes and net code but thats besides the point.

1. I think we all agree that an SK is a better murderer. With HT they are better at getting kill shots

2. What we are talking about is an SK vs a Paladin in 1v1 confrontation. The arguments being put forward are that an equal skilled paladin would generally be victorious because the SK can't really do enough damage to the paladin to overwhelm the paladins ultra good defense, lots of heals innately and lay hands not to mention being the sole weilder of the soulfire. The paladin might never get a killshot because they can't burst damage, but at the least the SK is going to hobble away with no chance of killing the brave paladin.

What are you thoughts in that context? I think we all agree that if you were going to use one of these classes to go kill people you would want to be an SK because of harm touch, and being able to bulldoze into peoples EXP camps and feign off any aggro you might collect carelessly while a paladin would have to pacify in.

[Ogrork]

Lets focus on the fact that this is theoryquest battle.

Magnet played when there were players on the server so his pally training is legitimate I have seen him joust and he does so bravely. I am a shitter jouster because I literally only played gustoo on red99 so my jousting is fully 17 years old from LIVE with different hit boxes and net code but thats besides the point.

You guys have got to be screwing with me now. His join date is February 2020. There were more players? We’re talking about p99 red right?

I’m starting to think that I’m being trolled.

If you both are serious, go with your paladin plan. I have a 54 sk. Let’s test your theory out. Pm me when you get to that level.

[Gustoo]

Magnetaress has lost several forum accounts but he played red99 at the start. I'm not saying magnet is some kind of PVP legend but not a goob either.

I am legitimately looking for you to describe how you are going to do so much damage to a paladin that the paladin can't keep himself healed up between his regular spells and lay hands.

Maybe you will be able to 100% slam to interrupt his spells and make him useless but I figure a paladin could figure out a way to land heal on himself? Thoughts? The way I figure it, all of the paladin mana can successfully heal himself, and not all of the SK mana can successfully damage the paladin. Assuming both are decent jousters I think the paladin is going to outlast the SK and if the SK doesn't flee, he would die.

[magnetaress]

All Sk's are good for is sneaking up on people and HTing them :p EVILY

thats what i'm saying.

[Gustoo]

You're wrong.

They're also good for training.

[magnetaress]

You're wrong.

They're also good for training.

Another EVIL thing. :p

[Gustoo]

You guys have got to be screwing with me now. His join date is February 2020. There were more players? We’re talking about p99 red right?

I’m starting to think that I’m being trolled.

If you both are serious, go with your paladin plan. I have a 54 sk. Let’s test your theory out. Pm me when you get to that level.

Ogre is a big advantage. The strength will boost your DPS and the STA will boost your HP.

Is this enough to beat all the pally heals?

[reebz]

We are really getting to the bottom of this with Gustoo and "Magnet" on the case LOL

What ever anyone said here is wrong and the fact that you said it is proof. I guess SK's beat Paladins.

[Gustoo]

I concede.

I think white knight needs to forum pvp battle a good SK and see how it plays out in a text based version of a video game that was based on text based games.

[Kief]

equal geard pally vs sk the pally should destroy the sk.

pally jousting + heal over time shit they get is o.p

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

hm I'm not sure, the extent of my pvp "skills" was having uber gear and hunting down noobs with a twinked ranger. (Probably because I was mad EQ was dying.) So honestly I am probably bad at pvp. I think I dueled a guy on my paladin once and may have thought the lesson learned was that HT > LH because if you LH a HT, then the LH is half damage, because you have to waste it at half hit points, or else the HT will one hit you. I don't know how resistable flash of light is though, if that lands you might be screwed.

I won the duel on my paladin though, or the guy felt bad for me lol, and let me pretend to win. I think it may have been that

[Jibartik]

Paly plugs.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I would really like to know though. It would be cool if someone could make a video of Sk vs Paladin best of the best duels. Jedi vs Sith, would make a cool movie. I was really jealous of an ogre Sk on my paladin one day though. He wasnt too much better geared than me and was hitting way harder than me.

[Gustoo]

Anyone vs ogre especially on classic is a piece of garbage. On my ranger on live ogre shamans pretty much out tanked me. And extra 70 strength when there’s literally no strength gear anywhere means a lot of extra smash power. No question.

In vanilla maybe pally loses to sk for that reason
Once Kunark gear balances racial stats it starts to look different.

Good point about maintaining pretty high HP to avoid HT insta death. How much hp percent does an HT do at level 50 and level 60 vs a paladin?

Having to maintain over X hp to not get HT killed does change the dynamic a lot. That’s why this is an interesting fight to me.

There was some actual good PVP guy who was commenting how disruptive a good paladin can be and I think that’s the strength of the class. Spot healing here and there and being able to smash pretty good and survive a long fight means a lot.

[Tassador]

Pally usually can’t secure a kill. You usually tango with the pally then if you can’t use your environment to level the playing field you just go on your way. 1 on 1 pally is like zero threat unless he has boots or sow and you’re without those items and therefore a scrub.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I wish I could have played more on red. It would be nice to know the in and outs of dueling, especially high level stuff. I wont be able to play for some time though. Its a major bummer. Like I said, I hope life never changes this but I just enjoy playing on pvp server. Makes the game feel more legit.

[Gustoo]

Good comments tassador that feels about right.

Saxon, yep it’s fun and also a lot of work even the scummiest red 99 slime balls have some pretty solid game skills that are respectable in their own way. It’s really fun to hear tips from people willing to share them.

[crossplay]

In Kunark, max gear I'm taking the Troll SK

[Tune]

Level 60, if gear is a factor you can discuss.

How does a battle between these two hybrid tanks play out?

Heres mine:

Scenario 1, lots of strong PVE enemies, the SK wins because of Feign death.

Scenario 2, not many or no strong PVE enemies - I dunno. I think the paladin might win because heals land for 100%, so he gets full LOH HP boost, and all his heal spells HP boosts while the SK is partialling HT and his damage spells and his pet is rooted doing nothing.

Thoughts?

weighted axe + fast bow > paladin atm , u will run him oom so fast

on a normal unbroken server tho , paladin wins toe to toe unless sk kites and procs him with epic and wears him down over a VERY long fight

SK just has about 10x the utility of a paladin especially in a dungeon, was prone to bow kiting but heh not anymore

need to fix server, and trust me im unbiased i have a sk

but come on log onto greybeard lets stream it

[Gustoo]

Is Greybeard your toon? Its not mine. I hope you aren't mistaking me for someone you think is a cool pal and gotta be disappointed with regular old Gustoo here.

Does the fast bow help the weighted axe delay in some way, or is it for interrupts?

What is so broken ATM Tune?

Thanks for weighing in with the pro tips.

[Tune]

u can check the bug forums, but main hand bonus damage is effecting bow shots

its only VERY broke and powerful when a weighted axe is used

making the minimum hit on any bow 100+ faster the bow the better

paladin would not be able to keep up with that

[Gustoo]

That is super savage and is the kinda thing that would explode me if I jumped into pvp today and I would just not understand why I got so wrecked lol

Good to know.

[Jeni]

The following is for Velious: Pre Velious paladin's are not that strong outside of Soulfires.

I wasn't the most geared Paladin around but it felt like the fight that would just go on forever. I had roughly 2.4k mana on Brick which translates to about 7700 healing in hots not including any extra 5th ticks. Someone would have to do roughly 14,000 hp worth of damage to run me OOM / blow my lay on hands. If we completely ignore soulfires for this that is still a lot of damage to do.

I was able to chase off a ToV geared empire sk using the Vulak Axe with just my Kunark rags / epic by just popping a DS pot / (Ragefire / Ring) DS and curing all their diseases with shield. Add in a clarity for an even more annoying fight where every point of mana translates to roughly ~3-4 hp. I think I ended this fight with nearly full mana before the SK escaped into Skyshrine to camp out.

I think I would have to agree with Tune though in most scenarios the SK should be favored. The Paladin really needs to be able to constantly land hits to counter the SK's regen and paladin's aren't exactly known for their DPS.

[Jeni]

u can check the bug forums, but main hand bonus damage is effecting bow shots

its only VERY broke and powerful when a weighted axe is used

making the minimum hit on any bow 100+ faster the bow the better

paladin would not be able to keep up with that


Tune what about a paladin with a fast bow? Unlimited DPS + unlimited health seems good? :) If I didn't retire to mistmoore I would be interesting in trying it

[Tune]

im not trying to build up sk that much they are just normally more useful

toe to toe slugfest with CE and all the pally heals and abilities they win pretty easy unless they are HEAVILY outgeared, and i mean kunark vs bis velious

[Gustoo]

Man I really appreciate when you guys weigh in like this. I know the server has been light but the knowledge sharing is treasured gold and also something fun to think about while at work.

Jeni regarding the bow thing, I think the issue is that the super duper slow delay of the weighted axe has an significant impact on the bow damage right now, and a paladin can't use that axe because its for the big boys only.

It would have been cool (and appropriate) if dwarfs were considered large race when it comes to things like throwing boulders, and weighted axes. But oh well.

[Kief]

salem kicked some serious ass on master blaster....i swore he named him after the stevie wonder track that's lit but he said no. he dropd sk's on his pally. even with the bow shit id still give it to a pally over sk and i had like 1000 pks on sk's. just depends on the player

[Kief]

ps lmao at tunes bug report bcuz of this thread <3 u dude lol

[magnetaress]

Paladins make up for low str by being the good guys and not being ogres.

I guess a pro ogre player that didn't become soft and lazy for their slight advantage would have the upper hand.

But you can't ever underestimate a paladin or elf who truly believes in themselves and their cause. I have seen, and been the elf winning against trolls and ogres, despite overwhelming odds and gear, class advantages.

Got both troll and ogre sk and war kills under my belt in vanilla and kunark. So it's clearly possible. Never underestimate your own skill and determination. Good overcomes evil in Everquest.

[Thulian]

Pre pop SK Post pop Pal, not even close

[magnetaress]

Pre pop SK Post pop Pal, not even close

You got this backwards. Try equivalent gear. No gimmicks, arena death match.

How will the sk win? Hiding with invis and trying to meditate for lifetaps?

I killed an sk on my ranger. With the crappiest of gear and points in AGI. They even had the benefit of IVU and unrest castle, but they pressed the attack on the ZL thinking they had me.

Honestly think a paladin will have the easiest go.

[Kief]

BLOODSUGAR > TUNES SK'S

i keeld all of u bwahahaha

[Thulian]

sk lifetaps do damage, lots of debuffs, pal heals are long casting time and pal targets himself, the whole time sk is dpsing , the paladin has to stop offense to heal

pal loses everytime pre pop, after pop paladins get overpowered heals with faster casting time and crits + 2 LOH

[Kief]

nah bruh they get a heal over time in kunark thats a rare drop.

it is super op fast cast time and they will destroy sk. play beter nerd

[White_knight]

Taking just the BEST Shadowknight Lifetap, and the BEST Direct heal a Paladin has and put them on paper:

Shadowknight:
Decrease Hitpoints by 332 (L49) to 338 (L50)
Casting Time 6.10
Mana 225

Paladin:
Superior Healing
1 : Increase Hitpoints by 565 (L34) to 583 (L40)
Casting Time 4.50
Mana 250

Factors involved:
Hybrid and PvP Penalties.
Life tap hits for 2/3, drains for 2/3.
Superior Heal heals for 524.

Baseline: Both Hybrids have 3500hp and 2500 mana, self buffed, fully dispelled. (In reality a Paladin should have 975hp more with self buffs, till pell'd but baseline is pelled as this is the best base to go off)

Disregarding fizzles:
Paladin can cast 10x Superior heals for 5240 health @ 45 seconds total cast time
Shadowknight can cast 11x life taps for 2464 damage and 2464 health (correct me if wrong on this round up, please) @ 67.1 seconds total.

So before both classes go OOM:

Paladin: 3500hp - 2464 + 5240 = 6276HP left over
Shadowknight = 3500HP left over

On raw Lifetap to Sup Heal spam a Paladin almost doubles it's health even with the damage from lifetap.

Now if buffs were protected and say golem wands weren't involved and a Paladin could use it's Heal over Time, it gets even worse.


There are lots of other factors involved but by bringing those in you also bring in Soulfire's and Reaper's and Lay on hands, and Harm Touch.

This is why my half geared NToV Paladin spanked the shit out of the 2 BiS Shadowknights on the server and made them plug 1v1. Wasn't me playing him but of any recent Red99 1v1 cases these were the best 2 examples.

[magnetaress]

Clinging darkness over and over is a better use of mana than lifetaps in pvp ;p

[Gustoo]

Add the lifetap HP gain to your shadow knight in that life tap vs heal comparison. The left over part.

Do taps land?

[White_knight]

Add the lifetap HP gain to your shadow knight in that life tap vs heal comparison. The left over part.

Do taps land?

Lifetaps are unresistable, but only do 2/3 dmg, thus 2/3 heal in PvP.

[Kief]

oh shit super nerd white knight broke it down as to why pally wins every time.

tks super nerd

[Gustoo]

But it should be 3500 plus 2464 correct? So it’s 5964 sk vs 6276 paladin?

A lot closer that way. Then it comes to joust skill and lay hands vs harm touch timing and crap right?

[Gustoo]

Also you’re being generous with the mana pool most sks have less mana than most paladins since they’re dum dum ogre or troll mostly.

And that’s why Salem or other smarty pants like iksar for SK because more mana is more better however I think that i would still do an ogre.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I'd like to know about either paladin or sk vs ranger (1v1) in gfay or lfay area at level 20-50 classic or sub kunark gear.

I guess we would have to include BB to make it fair if lfay is allowed.

[White_knight]

But it should be 3500 plus 2464 correct? So it’s 5964 sk vs 6276 paladin?

A lot closer that way. Then it comes to joust skill and lay hands vs harm touch timing and crap right?

Yes they should be a correction factor to reflect this.

I was just showing that a Paladin can absorb an entire mana bar of life taps without blinking.

[Arvan]

The paladin wins easily unless the sk can dodge and regen so well that the paladin runs out of mana. Talking lvl 60 both geared. HoT is too efficient

[Tune]

Taking just the BEST Shadowknight Lifetap, and the BEST Direct heal a Paladin has and put them on paper:

Shadowknight:
Decrease Hitpoints by 332 (L49) to 338 (L50)
Casting Time 6.10
Mana 225

Paladin:
Superior Healing
1 : Increase Hitpoints by 565 (L34) to 583 (L40)
Casting Time 4.50
Mana 250

Factors involved:
Hybrid and PvP Penalties.
Life tap hits for 2/3, drains for 2/3.
Superior Heal heals for 524.

Baseline: Both Hybrids have 3500hp and 2500 mana, self buffed, fully dispelled. (In reality a Paladin should have 975hp more with self buffs, till pell'd but baseline is pelled as this is the best base to go off)

Disregarding fizzles:
Paladin can cast 10x Superior heals for 5240 health @ 45 seconds total cast time
Shadowknight can cast 11x life taps for 2464 damage and 2464 health (correct me if wrong on this round up, please) @ 67.1 seconds total.

So before both classes go OOM:

Paladin: 3500hp - 2464 + 5240 = 6276HP left over
Shadowknight = 3500HP left over

On raw Lifetap to Sup Heal spam a Paladin almost doubles it's health even with the damage from lifetap.

Now if buffs were protected and say golem wands weren't involved and a Paladin could use it's Heal over Time, it gets even worse.


There are lots of other factors involved but by bringing those in you also bring in Soulfire's and Reaper's and Lay on hands, and Harm Touch.

This is why my half geared NToV Paladin spanked the shit out of the 2 BiS Shadowknights on the server and made them plug 1v1. Wasn't me playing him but of any recent Red99 1v1 cases these were the best 2 examples.

u moran

why would u even do the math for superior healing?

a Smart paladin is gonna use celestial cleansing, cast time is too fast to pell it

Tune what about a paladin with a fast bow? Unlimited DPS + unlimited health seems good? :) If I didn't retire to mistmoore I would be interesting in trying it

cant use a weighted axe, wont matter.

u will still hit like poop while getting plunked by rapid 100s

[Trainhop]

Click that circlet of shadow in between a weighted axe swings that paladin doesn't have a see invis item guarenfuck'ntee ya boy 95% success rate, maybe even pushing 96.

[crossplay]

pally getting dirtnapped

[Gustoo]

If pally is 60 without see invis vs circlet of shadow he’s just gunna take off.

[reebz]

Lol Farzo running all these numbers because he is worried about losing buffs to a golem wand in a 1v1 wow this thread is dumb.

[magnetaress]

I think heat blood or something like that is a more efficient way to burn a Pallies mana than those taps.

Thread is just more proof 1v1 gank pvp is just even more sillyness and shenanigans come velious.

[Gustoo]

I think heat blood has to land, and also doesn't heal the SK.

[magnetaress]

I think heat blood has to land, and also doesn't heal the SK.

Taps are horrible dps and don't do any healing if already full hp, and ya. Lol HB does. It does in vanilla and kunark still some.

@60 idk. I was a 60 cleric in kunark. I died 1v2 a lot to ppl dotting me, snaring, and running away to med.

[Atmas]

I feel like these threads are always packed full of people who have no clue what they're talking about. Pre-nerf CoS? Really? If you are talking about a gear or level imbalance then the subject is kind of pointless. There's also talk about strength disparity which is basically a non-issue after getting high end Velious gear.

First things first, if you have decently geared players forget about debuffs like roots and snares, those immediately go out the window. The SK isn't fearing the paladin and the paladin isn't flash of lighting the SK. (On a side note FoL is pretty OP against a person it would land on). This is going to be the case if you played EQ back in the day or any server where the resists code is similar. The one major question is going to be the effectiveness of lifetap. Is it coded to have the neg 200 modifier and how effective will it be when someone has higher MR?

The truth is the only thing people are probably going to cast at each other is dispells.

If you are talking about geared 60 players it's really just going to come down to mechanics of efficiency. Paly Celestial Cleansing which can be cast between rounds of jousting. A well played paladin can get 875 hpts out of 225 mana every time. The SK has the benefit that their heal deals damage but the mana efficiency is less, even when talking about heal and damage, and further reduced by PvP 2/3 reduction.

This also doesn't even take into account that Paladin's get way better buffs. I don't really play the game much anymore so I don't recall off the top of my head but I could self buff my Paladin to like 5500+ hpts and near 1600 AC. Throw on 14K in healing ability not even considering regen and soulfire.

Now if you talk about moving around a dungeon a SK will have superior mobility and will have advantages in breaking up camps. Equally geared their solo ability against one particular tough mob will be pretty similar.

If you talk about different points in time, like pre-celestial cleansing I suppose that's a different issue.

[magnetaress]

Heat blood, boil blood are both -100 fr, but dispellable.

Do sk get fire debuff? Like necros? Idk literally can see using HB before velious to force ppl to pell and heal.

Pallies will generally stomp SKs, after stomping their manapool. Because the sk is gonna have to joust to 1v1. Not to mention Pallies can dispell. So it's not like they'll run out of pumice and then die in a big protracted battle.

High elf pally with max wisdom has the most hp of any melee in game even if they tickle only with 20 dmg bow hits and 40 dmg melee, it's enough to overcome evil �� regen.

Think Pallies, clerics, and ranjurs are gonna be deadly on a discord server if ever ;p

[Nafe90]

Alot of factors go into this 1v1, for one, jousting is a huge part of this entire fight, who can land the most shots, and vise versa, also a paladin can heal for days, yes, but if an SK can consistently keep his DoTs on the Paladin, then the Paladins HoT heal will not keep him up long term. Also factor in when the Paladin can judge using his LoH without using it too soon, which allows the SK to judge when he goes in for his burst kill shot, IE: Life Leech + Disc HT, which your looking at roughly 1400 dmg.

Also, will the Paladin be able to corner cast heals if the SK sticks on them and doesnt just mindlessly use his Bash at unviable times?

I give this a 50/50. Too many factors to base this 1v1 on. Also if a Soulfire is usable then the Paladin should win unless they are a complete idiot. Then again, the SK depending on joust abilities and mana could hold on with Epic proc, lifetap proc to keep them up, and lifetaps when needed, but most mana would be focused on DoTS to keep the Paladins HoT usless, and also if the SK can manage his dispells, then he can time the dispell to take the HoT off.

As I said, 50/50.

[Gustoo]

Nafe90, with his first post, coming out of p99 forum lurker status with some solid intel.

Thanks for contributing friend

[Tassador]

Try finding sk vs pally equal gear in arena situation.

But hey try explaining eq pvp to a guy who has played eq for 90 years and still talks about lvl 40 gameplay.

[crossplay]

High elf pally with max wisdom has the most hp of any melee in game even if they tickle only with 20 dmg bow hits and 40 dmg melee, it's enough to overcome evil �� regen.

Think Pallies, clerics, and ranjurs are gonna be deadly on a discord server if ever ;p

You'd think but not in actual gameplay

[Gustoo]

Well in actual practice the winner of discord was a high elf cleric with his brother playing a wood elf ranger. Since it was a lot about hunting down and killing enemies before they get too strong it was important to have a tracker. The cleric with deep pool of survivability was level 46 if I recall, when the server ended. He was not allowed to be formally ranked because his name was Apostle, which was a pretty dick move by SonyEQ at the time, since there were flagrant policy violations being perpetrated all around the server and that hero didn't get ranked because of a naming policy violation.

I don't know what the rangers name was.

This is a different scenario because they were duo'd 100% of the time which compensates for each classes weaknesses. An SK is a better killer than basically anyone, but it can be compensated for by cleric heals and I'd imagine running away and arrow kiting which is easy to do in old world as long as you avoid the like 3 tight dungeons.

So yeah there are a lot of different scenarios and it depends on ERA and GEAR and of course skill.

Again, Clerics and Pallies arent #1 PVP picks because they don't have any great tools to land kills. They're defensive. This in turn leads the best PVP players to avoid them, because those guys want to secure KILLS not just survive.

[White_knight]

Lol Farzo running all these numbers because he is worried about losing buffs to a golem wand in a 1v1 wow this thread is dumb.

I remember you dumping a full golem wand into me when I had jboots on in OT once.

So yah.. was a good chuckle moment knowing you wasted probably an hour or two farming for jboots buff.

Lol.

[Raclen]

You guys are getting too far in the weeds here. Tune already told you this server is broken and you can use a weighted axe with a low delay bow to get broken rapid fire damage so nothing else you are saying matters.

[White_knight]

Of recent history:

Both Tune and Mirkuls' dripping in BIS Shadowknights had their arses flipped by a Paladin wearing low end ToV gear.

This wraps this question up.

You are talking SKs that had 3-4 dozker loot, full HoT BP/legs, vuulak lewt including pallidus axe, dain belt, possible let ct brains vrs a toon with a Othmir Prexus Totem, epic, and LTK BP.

It's not even a question who wins SK v Paladin in Velious and anyone arguing is just talking shit.

[crossplay]

Era matters more than anything.

Pre-Velious goes to the SK.

[Tune]

Of recent history:

Both Tune and Mirkuls' dripping in BIS Shadowknights had their arses flipped by a Paladin wearing low end ToV gear.

This wraps this question up.

You are talking SKs that had 3-4 dozker loot, full HoT BP/legs, vuulak lewt including pallidus axe, dain belt, possible let ct brains vrs a toon with a Othmir Prexus Totem, epic, and LTK BP.

It's not even a question who wins SK v Paladin in Velious and anyone arguing is just talking shit.

i agree paladin beats sk toe to toe

but the fights he is referring to above are not real sanctioned fights, these probably took place in the open world where there were buffs and other factors at play

also log on and lets do it now u will actually lose

oh no wait you are a coward that talks shit =) i guess u wont

[Gustoo]

No way I think that Tune and White_knight have both developed into respectable EQ Business men / PVP gentlemen and that white knight would log on for a battle.

But then you gotta set rules like self buffed only or whatever.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

I need to get better at pvp. I hope there is still some Alexander the Great stuff out there no one has thought of. Like dropping bags on the ground so gnomes cant be seen and dodge attacks. Obviously joking about the bags.

[Gustoo]

The game is always changing a little bit and new masters of the p99 environment come and go as people have play time to really max it out. Even the way you run can give you an advantage when those movements get translated to your opponents screen. It comes down to familiarity with the engine and staying engaged rather than being a lazy turd player. It helps if you have some brave fighter friends to experiment with.

In the mean time I suggest you start slow motion playing a character taking your sweet time to level someone up. Or never play if the game is toxic for your life in some way.

[Disease]

You guys are getting too far in the weeds here. Tune already told you this server is broken and you can use a weighted axe with a low delay bow to get broken rapid fire damage so nothing else you are saying matters.

Its been like that a while now. Someone wrote a guide years ago on these forums.

[White_knight]

You guys are getting too far in the weeds here. Tune already told you this server is broken and you can use a weighted axe with a low delay bow to get broken rapid fire damage so nothing else you are saying matters.

Hybrids get 75 Archery.

So 2x 15 pt hits gunna really take you down, have to have 8 bags full of arrows and hope the person runs around in circles for 30 minutes.

[Jeni]

Man I really appreciate when you guys weigh in like this. I know the server has been light but the knowledge sharing is treasured gold and also something fun to think about while at work.

Jeni regarding the bow thing, I think the issue is that the super duper slow delay of the weighted axe has an significant impact on the bow damage right now, and a paladin can't use that axe because its for the big boys only.

It would have been cool (and appropriate) if dwarfs were considered large race when it comes to things like throwing boulders, and weighted axes. But oh well.

I get it now i thought it was just weapon damage and not the weapon 2h bonus damage... thats hilariously broken. Yeah the slowest reasonable weapon a paladin has access to is a 51/53 Blackstone Maul or a Tantor's Tusk but it's stupid rare on p99 for no reason.

I do wonder if outside of this bug if the Chardok 2h damage bonus update made paladins a lot better since they may actually be able to do some damage now and not just slowly tickle people to death while living forever. I haven't played in years so I'm way out of the loop on the current state of stuff.

[Penish]

So you're saying I could have permanent 400 point crippling arrows with a 150 delay main hand? I might even log in for 15 minutes to check this out!

[Gustoo]

Send us some screen shots of you 1 shotting lowbie mobs with a bow KAPOW

[Tune]

Hybrids get 75 Archery.

So 2x 15 pt hits gunna really take you down, have to have 8 bags full of arrows and hope the person runs around in circles for 30 minutes.

bro what are u talking about

with a weighted ax your MINIMUM hit is 101

[Gustoo]

Crazy that such a hilariously fun broken mechanic is being shared because there’s not really anyone to abuse it against. :(

I wanna see the battle

[White_knight]

bro what are u talking about

with a weighted ax your MINIMUM hit is 101

Lol wtf?

Nerf bat that. How has anyone not reported that yet. If a SK bowed me for 101+ you'd know something was up.

[Kief]

so yeah without broken 2h damage bonus applying to the bow....pally winz.

but even then if pally used tantors itd be the same shit. pally winz broken 2

[Dulu]

Lots of variables. Depends on era. Very early classic, Paladin has a big advantage in available weapons with being able to obtain Fiery Avenger before Troll can get anything comparable.

SK has way better race options for PvP. Ogre specifically, but also Troll and Iksar are note-worthy.

[Gustoo]

Kief the tantors is less than half the delay of the weighted axe so the bonus is a lot less.

[Vexenu]

In a fight to the death in endgame Velious gear the Paladin wins easily. Celestial Healing is way too efficient for the SK to keep up with and casts very quickly. As long as the Paladin keeps his HP above the danger zone of being one-shotted by a HT, he should be fine.

In Classic and Kunark the SK would have the edge, due to Ogre/Troll stat advantage and the Paladin having to self-target, stop and cast his heals, which would cost him a ton of damage over the course of the fight. A string of unlucky interrupts followed by an HT is all it would take to put the Pally down. SK epic is also much better than the Paladin epic for jousting battles (higher dmg, lifetap proc for sustain).

SKs are still the much better PvP class overall in the sense that they are far superior at killing other players than the Paladin is, have much greater utility due to their 2x invis, lev and FD, and are still very tanky and hard to kill (although not quite as hard to kill as the Paladin). Paladins are a really good group and mass PvP class, because they can do decent damage while tossing out spot heals as needed. And no one is going to priority target a Paladin so all that healing will be uninterrupted. SKs, in contrast, fare much better solo, having more tricks up their sleeve and enough offense to secure kills.

[Tune]

I bet I can beat any pally on the server atm

And even when the weighted ax is nerfed I will just need 3x - 4x as many boulders as I have arrows

White knight can log in let's sanction it

[Gustoo]

I think vexenu has a good understanding. I wanna see this tune battle but is there even a paladin to be called out? If it happens can someone please post to YouTube so I can watch it guaranteed I won’t catch the twitch or whatever

[crossplay]

Ranger vs Bard

[magnetaress]

Ranger vs Bard

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3231747#post3231747